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Was Billy Katagiri the worst written character in Gundam history?
>>
>>19518250
IBO takes the cake of worst written Gundam animation of all time. The plot, dialogue and characters were all terrible

Even AGE had good characters in adult Flit and Grodek
>>
>>19518256
say the line
>>
>>19518250
He's a cuck. He simped hard for the biggest slut in all of gundam and still didn't get any action.
>>
>>19518256
>weebshit spacing
>>
>>19518256
Pretty sure /m/ would agree it's Sekai or GBD, probably Sekai since he's a bit more annoying. But then there's haxxor you don't know her like I did for an hour Banagher.
>>
>>19518256
>>19518267
It's funny, I was actually just thinking, if this board cried about reddit like other boards do, "Flit and Grodek are the best characters" would be one of those things that contrarians start calling a "reddit opinion."
>>
>>19518271
Sekai's alright.
>>
>>19518300
people have a strong opinion on Grodek? feels like Asunos and Zeheart gets all the AGE attention
>>
>>19518303
No.
>>
>>19518250
worst written Gundam character? Try entire G-Gundam, Turn-A, IBO and Build series cast.
>>
I watched Death Note and Gundam 00 at around the same time and the song Zetsubou Billy always made me think of Billy Katagiri.
>>
>>19518359
no gundam age?
>>
>>19519746
AGE was pretty well written for the most part.
>>
>>19518250
Gundam kinda has a history of poorly written characters. I don't think I've ever heard someone say "Man, I really liked that Gundam series for the writing."
>>
>>19518359
>G Gundam
Whatever you say Evangelion fan. How's that turning out for you nowadays?
>>
>>19518250
No. He was a pathetic simp for a woman who didn't love him.

But there's so many worse characters, like Riku, most of the antagonists from GBD and Try, the antagonists in CE...
>>
>>19518304
He was a pretty cool captain/surrogate dad for Flit.
>>
>>19518359
>Turn-A
filtered
>>
>>19518359
based eve autist
>>
>>19520734
Whom?
>>
>>19518264
They literally shared a bed
>>
>>19518250
Since he was basically just Gundam Otacon, no
>>
>>19518250
I thought it was weird that season 2 went hard on the Billy/Sumeragi relationship only to give Billy a new love interest in Trailblazer.
I guess S1's writer was much more of a sumeragi/allelujah guy.
>>
>>19518250
No, that was Orga and by consequence, Mika since he followed him everywhere.
He started off good but the whole kangz of mars shit they pulled was absolutely retarded.
Also Rey Za Burrel, he should've just stayed as Shinn's sidekick for the whole show, and speaking of destiny
>Durandal
what the hell was hasegawa smoking?
>>
>>19522021
>Rey Za Burrel
Fricking naming this guy "Laser Barrel" should have been the first red flag.
>>
>>19518250

>Was Billy Katagiri the worst written character in Gundam history?

You say this within context of a franchise where Quess Paraya, Nina Purpleton, Kio Asuno, Kira Yamato, Katz Kobayashi and Reccoa Londe also exist.
>>
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SEKAI IS SPECIAL

he then proceeds to Gary Stu everything

fucking infuriating dog shit writing
>>
>>19522208
In theory he should have been awesome. A Domon expy in the Build Fighters universe. It was exciting because G is beloved and Build Fighters season 1 was amazing. Then it turned out that the writers of Try had literally no idea what made Build Fighters so great. So that was the end of that.
>>
>>19522208

Sekai is a case of the writing being absolutely horrific but the character isn't really that offensive, i find him very innocuous in comparison.
>>
>>19522193
Kira's the best, like his shows.
>>
>>19523701
You forgot to tell us to cope.
>>
>>19522021
>He started off good but the whole kangz of mars shit they pulled was absolutely retarded.

Well hubris is a hell of a drug. And with so many of his long bets paying off he probably figured he could make the biggest bet and cash out.
He didn't realize just how long the odds it was to follow McGillis since Orga was suited to be warlord and figured "We got the biggest guns so this plan is going to work"

He didn't count on the possibility of the State having a monopoly on force when they take off the kid gloves. And that his group didn't have a big backer to arm them more.

Just another failed Revolutionary who got stomped on by the State
>>
>>19525487
You honestly have to respect Mari Okada for writing a story where a scenario like this played out to its obvious conclusion instead of the supposed "good guys" (debatable) somehow managing to bullshit a win. Reminds me of Hunter x Hunter, which answers the "Why don't they just nuke them?" question with "Actually, they did."
>>
>>19523657
Sekai's kind of just nothing.
>>
>>19525537
I think he mentioned that really it was a mob/yakuza type story in the end. And like a good mob movie hubris is the cause of the main character's downfall ending with their would be empire in ruins and them dead.

Apparently Okada wanted to have it go full mafia movie where when the Feds do the big climatic raid everybody dies. But he got talked out of it so you had some survivors but everyone else who matters is dead.
The survivors gotta get new names and lives and pray no one digs up they were tied to the mob.
>>
>>19525643
Not sure how you heard all this but did not hear that Okada is a woman.
>>
>>19525643
>Apparently Okada wanted to have it go full mafia movie where when the Feds do the big climatic raid everybody dies. But he got talked out of it so you had some survivors but everyone else who matters is dead.
That was the director, who was a retard with a big murder boner. He wanted Atra and Kudelia to get got, when that makes zero fucking sense and would probably have made things worse for Gjallarhorn.

Okada and the writing staff managed to save him from his own stupidity, especially since he completely failed to sell Tekkadan and McGillis as villians.

Pro tip: you can't make the guys fighting people who routinely employ false flag attacks, use WMDs on civilians, massacre protestors, and fuck with the politics of nations to increase their power the bad guys, because the other guys are visibly worse in every way.
>>
>>19518264
Did we watch the same show? Sumeragi was a sexually dead, bland mannequin with a drinking problem, she was literally obsessed with her boyfriend she drone striked ten years ago. She never showed any sexual interest in anybody.
>>
>>19526726
No, Kati was a mannequin. Sumeragi was a lee noriega.
>>
>>19523701
The best at getting cucked
>>
>>19527104
He's got a point.
>>
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>>19527104
>>19530492
Well, fuck me. You got me there anon.
>>
>>19525823
Accents are weird. My
>>
>>19526726
She reacted pretty well to Hallelujah's fingerbanging.
>>
>>19532443
Hallelujah's what now?
>>
>>19532761
Hallelujah's 1 second finger blast
>>
>>19526726
She actually did fuck Billy >>19521822
I dunno how anyone could think otherwise. She was a fall down drunk who needed a place to stay, and she lived with him for two years. Probably would have let him do anything
>>
>>19533150
Billy did it or not? Is better or worse?
>>
>>19533195
I have no idea, it depends how pathetic you consider a relationship with a depressed drunk to be.

Also, depends on the Mina situation at the time. She clearly met him at some point before the movie, but it's not clear when. If she was as thirsty for him during this period, he clearly made the wrong choice. If not, then it's still shit, but not "WTF are you doing?!" bad.
>>
>>19533219
What a weird bluepill is the whole "Simp loser actually has a hot girl in love with him,"

Its so weird
>>
>>19533232
>bluepill
What do you think you're doing using slang like this here.
>>
>>19518256
I was reading MAL reviews of IBO just out of curiosity, and it was shocking how many people called it either the "most mature gundam", the "best gundam show", and even "the best anime ever made"
>>
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>>19518250
Just how?
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>>19534084
>MAL
people on this website consider one piece to be the third best manga of all time
>>
>>19534084
It's on netflix, it's the only one most of them have actually seen. Or worse, they watched Wing when they were kids and reacted with "wow, now Gundam has finally grown up :)".
>>
>>19521906
The whole point of the S2 ending was Billy accepting that Sumeragi was never going to love him, and Sumeragi accepting that she'd been a scumbag by stringing Billy along like she had, so both of them could forgive each other and move on.
>>
>>19523657
Yeah, but the thread's about who's the worst written character, and that's absolutely either Sekai or one of the people around him.
>>
>>19534084
>>19534264
There was this guy on MAL called Stark or something who was literally always the first guy to create or respond to every single anime episode discussion thread. It drove me insane, like what the fuck was he doing, downloading the raws and watching them on 8x speed just so he could fire off some idiotic post that completely misunderstood what happened in the episode? No idea if he's still around since I haven't used that site 's forums in a long time.
>>
>>19534084
>I was reading MAL reviews of IBO just out of curiosity, and it was shocking how many people called it either the "most mature gundam", the "best gundam show", and even "the best anime ever made"
I'm not surprised, it's done in the modern style and actually does a good job of clearly establishing character motivations, so it's got a leg up on a lot of the older stuff.

It's got flaws, sure, but if you view it as a tragedy from start to finish, it definitely maintains tone better than a lot of other mainline Gundams.
>>
>>19534084
most people on /m/ literally cannot understand the themes of IBO beyond robots shooting each other
>>
>>19534642
Well /m/ is one of the most hipster boards on the site so...
>>
>>19534642
IBO is great in that it almost perfectly refutes many of the tiresome and disingenuous arguments advanced by scum from places like /a/ and /v/ to dismiss Gundam. These arguments, which I'm sure you've all seen and argued against 1,000,000 times, usually take the form of
>Series message is that war is bad
>Series glorifies war in order to sell toys
IBO comprehensively refutes these points because
>It manages to have a main cast that is good at waging war and yet incredibly pitiful as people
>They die tragic and foolish deaths rather than heroic deaths
>The guy who actually understands how to manipulate the levers of power wins out over the guy who thinks that all you need are symbols, ideological purity, and violence to change the world
>Mecha and the Gundams themselves, far from being "the ultimate weapon," are actually shown to be impotent and basically irrelevant in the face of more practical weapons
For these reasons, despite the widespread hatred for it on /m/, I always point to IBO as a counterexample whenever a discussion comes up where brainlets denigrate Gundam as being a mere toy commercial. It's as good at shutting down /a/utists and /v/irgins as Mikazuki is at killing members of Gjallarhorn.
>>
>>19534763
Ironically, Argevollen which aired before IBO had many similar themes but it got ignored because it wasn't Gundam and the few people who watched it failed to understand it just like they failed to understand IBO.
>>
>>19534854
It got ignored because it was shit. I gave it 3/10. The show had so much retardation in it and that retardation escalated as it was drawing to an end. It's an anime you recommend someone if you want to make them hate mecha.
>>
>>19534554
He's still there doing the exact same thing.
>>
>>19534967
I really wonder what life must be like for a person like that, for him to always have time to do that and never be busy due to a job, homelessness, etc. Because this has been going on for at least a decade.
>>
>>19527104
Underrated.
>>
>>19522021
>Also Rey Za Burrel, he should've just stayed as Shinn's sidekick for the whole show, and speaking of destiny
>>Durandal
Ray was the most underwhealming version of Rau, while Durandal was rewritten mid show, to whitewash him.
>>
>>19536953
>Durandal was rewritten mid show, to whitewash him.
Wait, what? He was intended to be black?
>>
>>19536975
He opened by sending a team of assassins to murder Kira and Lacus so he could replace Lacus with his own loyal doppelganger to spread pro-war propaganda, so he clearly wasn't a good guy despite appearances. That said, I don't think they ever whitewashed him.
>>
>>19537225
And depressingly some people on /m/ will still say they agreed with him.
>>
>>19537225
>with his own loyal doppelganger to spread pro-war propaganda
What? Plant's general population wanted an all out war campaign. Durandal's fake Lacus toned that down if anything.
>>
>>19540547
Durandal was a Plant
>>
>>19542027
What the hell? No he wasn't.
>>
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>>19518250
>>
>>19536975
>>19537225
Sorry for the late reply, but I am 100% sure Durandal was intended to be a much more sinister and Rau type of character. All those mysterious events that happened in the first half, were so obviously written with the intent that his involvment will be revealed later.
>Armory one theft, where the three infiltrators had inside help
>Junius 7 drop, where Durandal just happened to pass by the day it happened
>Lacus assassination, where he was 100% involved
But we all know the show suffered constant rewrites, and I guess mid show they fell in love with his character, and decided to make him into a much more noble, pure and angelic villain, who only wants to bring peace to humanity, and who is stopped by Kira, only because "muh 1984 and brave new world are bad". I honestly think the writers didn't know what the Destiny plan even was, in the first half of the show, and thus Durandal was planned to be more of a classic villain.
>>
>>19547301
So they liked him but didn't have the balls to let him win.
>>
>>19550749
Look him winning means Kira would have to Lose.
Kira cannot lose. It's the law.
>>
>>19550788
What if, Kira never actually lost but he realized that Durandal was right and joined him? I should have written Destiny.
>>
>>19518250
How about fucking Judau Ashita
>>
>>19522021
>>19525487
Orga didn't have a lot of choice when it came to making his mistakes. He kept getting dealt shitty hands and having to make choices that increased risk and vulnerability. The alternative was to go back to being a powerless slave.

No matter how much power or influence he accumulated, it could be taken away unless he attained something like the title of "King of Mars"

His options were to abandon his friends and subordinates to their fates, accept a life of slavery or take his shot. And he took his shot.
>>
>>19522208
Other posters are right that Sekai himself is ok, nothing special at best and a poor copy of Reiji, and it's really quality of the show dragging him down. Fumina and Yuuma are easily worse characters from the same show, especially Yuuma since Fumina actually had character until Sekai siphoned it into a black hole over the course of the show.
>>
>>19518250
He gets a sex freak, right? In the movie?
>>
>>19553747
Purely as an excuse to have Nena's VA voice a character
>>
>>19518250
CCA Char was a pretty terrible character. It's insulting that we got that as the end to his character arc. Honorable mentions go to the entire cast of Gundam SEED Destiny after episode 28, and Gundam Build Fighters Try for completely missing the mark on what people loved about season 1 in almost every single way.
>>
>>19518256
I dont get why people act like IBO was the worst thing ever, it honestly was just mediocre at best.
>>
>>19553886
Anything to distract from Aldnoah being the true affront to mecha anime.
>>
>>19553135
He was better than Kamille.
>>
>>19553775
It's clearly IS Nena, dummy.
>>
IBO didn't need a second half. The first half a set goal for the protagonists ( go to earth), while the second half was just a series of stuff that happens.
doesn't change that it's still shit
>>
>>19553919
I thought that was in part to help cover up Cross Ange.
>>
>>19553775
>>19554511
Nena with Sumeragi's hair and proportions, at that. Billy got the rebound of the millennium.
>>
>>19554585
That show was really good, but /m/ doesn't understand satire. Unironically a symptom of autism.
>>
>>19554659
I dunno the entire "I can't believe this isn't an H-series" of the early episodes didn't help
>>
>>19545402
And here we have Mrs. Bushido.
>>
>>19557130
Seriously what on earth do people find appealing about this trash.
>>
>>19557818
Nothing, but it's worth mentioning.
>>
>>19561024
I'd prefer not to hear about Gundam 00 again.
>>
>>19563227
Get real. It's incredibly popular here.
>>
>>19564666
But not as popular (or as good) as SEED.
>>
>>19564681
Fuck SEED.
>>
>>19534554
>>19534967
>>19535033
Reminds me of VeghEsther from gamefaqs. Dude was always posting the same jrpg strats/builds across multiple games as the definitive and only way to play/win those games. Even after finally being permabanned, he still haunts youtube video comment sections of those rpgs with the same shit.
>>
>>19567071
Endgame is even worse. He's been banned but he came back on a new account anyway. Apparently that website hardly ever permabans people anymore, if someone with a few thousand karma breaks the rules they maybe get purgatory and then a few days later they can come back. Probably because there's so few users left on the site they can't afford to lose anyone.
>>
>>19518250
Nah there were a lot of weirdly written/badly written characters in IBO and some of the later Gundam Build Fighter shows.
>>
>>19553739
Listen anon, Yuuma won the artistic gunpla grand prix award, and that totally gives him personality going by how much the show repeated it
>>
>>19526645
All of IBO Season 2 was a fucking mess. It suffers from the same thing 00 did, the second half feels like someone else was writing it.

>>19519767

Third half was awful. Kio explores Mars and tries to go for the understanding ending. And Mars was run by idiots.
>>
>>19568893
>Third half
>>
>>19567071
>>19568213
Do people still seriously use GameFAQs? The forums were always shit, and YouTube and wikis do the job of the FAQs much better. I see retards make troll topics on their main accounts, then wonder why no-one gives them proper answers when they make non-troll posts.
>>
>>19570695
>Do people still seriously use GameFAQs? The forums were always shit, and YouTube and wikis do the job of the FAQs much better. I see retards make troll topics on their main accounts, then wonder why no-one gives them proper answers when they make non-troll posts.
It's very useful for older games and sometimes is the only source for text info on a game if a wiki doesn't exist.
>>
>>19570695
>YouTube and wikis do the job of the FAQs much better
Yeah it's great having to watch 30+ minutes of blathering to get the one piece of information I'm looking for, or have to search for it on some slow bloated fextralife garbage which is 90% placeholder pages and doesn't actually have any content beyond in game descriptions being written down on it
>>
>>19570695
I can't stand most of the boards on that site anymore but lately I like the Politics board because it's the only gaming website I've seen that isn't infested with right-wing morons. Satisfying watching trolls come in there and get slapped down because they aren't used to receiving pushback in gamer spaces.

>>19571988
I don't really need to use guides that often but when I do I have found the Gamepress pages for certain games to be incredibly helpful. Perhaps you're not looking in the right place. Nobody writes FAQs anymore so the only time I get gaming advice from GameFAQs is when I type a question into google and the answer happens to be in a GameFAQs thread.

>>19571940
This is true though, there are certain old games for which GameFAQs is the only useful resource. For the most part it's outlived its usefulness but for those games it would be a loss to the internet if it ever went away.
>>
>>19572013
Really looking at stuff like RPG guides is just kinda wild as you just look at some of the advice and just how BAD it is. Like the amount of over-leveling they're doing it crazy
>>
>>19572547
To this day people all over the internet seem to be incompetent at RPGs. It's really not a hard genre but it is a genre where you can really get a good measure of people's gaming skill, or lack thereof.
>>
>>19553739
You're insane. Sekai is a huge reason the quality of the show is so fucking bad because every single fight revolves around him winning the day by pulling some shit out of his ass unless he LITERALLY suicides because the plot demands it like during the Try-On 3 fight. Even you yourself point out that Fumina lost all her personality as a direct result of Sekai as well. Yuuma is the only one out of the three with anything even resembling a character arc even if it's not a particularly interesting one.
>>
>>19573418
That is the fault of the writing though, not Sekai. Like he said, Reiji was pretty similar but because the fights were so enjoyable to watch we didn't really mind that he kept powering through with the same attacks. It helped that they recognized people wanted to see more than just Reiji fighting so they showed us plenty of fights he wasn't present in at all.
>>
>>19520606
i dont listen to mecha fans who only watch stuff for "cool robots". if you aren't watching it for the writing go play with /toys/
>>
>>19573514
That doesn't change the fact that Gundam is historically poorly written.
>>
>>19520631
nothing about that comment said "eva fan" you obsessed faggot. but the fact that he named the most popular AU series should've tipped you off to the fact that he is trolling.
>>
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>>19568867
I keep coming back to this comment and laughing my ass off every time.
Why must you do this to me, anon?
>>
>>19573905
It's funny, but it's also depressing that a writer actually exists who thought "tell, don't show" is a good way to write a story. Try was full of that, people constantly saying how interesting the characters are supposed to be. S1 didn't need to tell us how cool they were because we got to see it for ourselves first hand.
>>
>>19570695
I also like that because GameFAQs has its own terms that nobody else on the internet uses for the same things, you can tell if someone is a heavy GameFAQs user after all this time. Like if they say topic instead of thread, or fad instead of meme. Those are words that are only used on GameFAQs, so you instantly know.
>>
>>19571940
True.

>>19571988
Also true. I personally prefer text guides over videos for that very reason, but sometimes the stars align and you get a concise video guide that works better than text.

>>19572547
>>19573387
Going back to, say, PS1 era Square RPGs, it's amazing to see what bad advice was taken as gospel back then.
>>
>>19534763
>It's as good at shutting down /a/utists and /v/irgins as Mikazuki is at killing members of Gjallarhorn.
So basically it’s shit at it, because if Mika was actually good then M.A.O’s character would’ve died.
>>
>>19574174
That seems to be an issue with anime/manga generally nowadays. I blame low animation budgets, and most contemporary writers growing up with poorly written shows.
>>
>>19576423
Low animation budgets certainly could have been to blame for Try. Crazy that they had a huge success on their hands and then they thought it was a good idea to DECREASE the next season's budget.
>>
>>19576439
I suspect the execs at Bandai okayed GBF expecting a mediocre toy commercial but ended up with a hit.

Then with characteristic corporate logic they decided to ride that goodwill into a lazily hashed out sequel while completely not seeing what made GBF good. Of course they'd cut the budget too because GBF was a fluke and fans would tune in regardless.
>>
>>19576439
All the talented animators jumped ship to go work on G-Reco with Tomino
>>
>>19576439
>>19576596
>>19576716
Try got fucked by the director jumping ship to do My Hero Academia, which was set up from the word go to be a multi-season job.

If Sunrise had any faith in OG BF, they would've signed the guy to a similar deal.

The main problem the post-BF shows have had is lack of leadership with a good idea of how to channel the Big Nerd Energy the original did. Try kinda coasted for the first half of the show on the residual good will of its predecessor, but couldn't keep it going because the guys working on it fucked up by taking out all the first half rivals aside from Minato, so they had to whip up new jobbers who didn't have the same kind of beef with the main cast as the previous ones did.

Build Divers was trash because the writers and director didn't know shit about games and online fandom, so they couldn't fulfill the potential of their premise. Also, I think they changed writing teams entirely, because aside from Koichi's intro episode, none of them were particularly good at character stuff, while a few were okay to good with gags.

Re:Rise got around that by focusing on a single main plot and making the character arcs fit the plot. The main problem with Re:Rise is that if you don't care about Sarah, Eve as the core of Hiroto's emotional journey doesn't land, and for some reason, they played this dumb game where they would refuse to confirm things they implied until way later in the show.
>>
>>19576859
>If Sunrise had any faith in OG BF, they would've signed the guy to a similar deal.
Wasn't it already too late? I'm sure it had been decided long ahead of time that he was doing BnHA. They probably would have had to wait.
>>
No it's Tolle from SEED. His death is meant to be one of SEED's defining moments but he was about as interesting as dirt. The focus he does get is after he spent most of the show in the background and none of it establishes a personality or fosters a connection to the audience. Miriallia and Kira are sad but the show gives the audience no reason to care. He is so bad I bet many people forgot to even remember he existed when considering their answers.
>>
>>19580132
It's also a stupid fucking way to die. Just chucking a shield at him like Captain America. I'd love to hear the discussion that resulted in that writing decision.
>>
>>19580063
>Wasn't it already too late? I'm sure it had been decided long ahead of time that he was doing BnHA. They probably would have had to wait.
I meant when they greenlit the project, although given how fucked the anime industry is, it's possible that even then it was too late.
>>
>>19518264
>biggest
in the chest department
>slut
hahahaha moron
>>
>>19576859
>Also, I think they changed writing teams entirely, because aside from Koichi's intro episode, none of them were particularly good at character stuff, while a few were okay to good with gags.

Because of his intro episode, and his ties to Tsukasa, the villain of the first half, I think that Koichi was the protagonist of an earlier draft.
>>
>>19582274
>>19576859
I don't know about that. Build Divers had a pretty consistent pool of writers, and the prologue and main series had the same head writer. I think Build Divers problem is that Tsukasa just shouldn't have gone through with his plan until the second half. The show would have been better if it never deescalated after 14 and instead leads right into protecting Sarah. The series also needed to inject a bit more comedy into its more light hearted episodes so they didn't feel so drab and boring.
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>>19580132
Plus unlike Nicol, he doesn't have HE WAS FIFTEEN HE LOVED TO PLAY THE PIANO memes going for him. Tolle is that forgettable and inconsequential.
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>>19582537
Wait Nicol, who loved the play the piano, was 15?!
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>>19582274
>>19582274
>Because of his intro episode, and his ties to Tsukasa, the villain of the first half, I think that Koichi was the protagonist of an earlier draft.
I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. That arc's narrative would've hit harder if he'd been the protag.

>>19582533
>Build Divers had a pretty consistent pool of writers
I think >>19576859 was talking about a writing staff change between Try and BD, not during BD itself.

You're right that it needed to inject more comedy into the light hearted episodes, but I dunno about moving Tsuakasa towards the end. Part of the reason Tsukasa gets dealt with so early in the show is because the Break Decals were causing problems too big to ignore, and the administration was already coming across as idiots for not really doing anything to deal with the cheating. Putting that towards the end doesn't really make them look better, aside from maybe making the Game Master's "fuck it, kill the AI" stance look a bit more understandable.
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>>19582134
Eh? How so.





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