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is he /m/?
>>
>>19367297
Yes
>>
Kulilin's spunk bucket isn't though
>>
>>19367297
He is literally a mechanical android.
>>
16 most definitely, the franchise itself no
>>
>>19367470
This
>>
>>19367297
Yeah, sucks he basically served as nothing more than an excuse for gohan to asspull a transformation.
>>
>>19367531

His transformation had plenty of build up and foreshadowing, so it cannot be an asspull.
>>
>>19367531
Gohan had been chosen as the successor since DBZ started, it wasn't an asspull.
>>
If it can rocket punch, it's /m/.
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Nah.
>>
>>19367436
She cheated on him with mister popo
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>>19367553
>>19367577
>>19367531
DBZ fags actually think their predicatable and recurring "the arc's protagonist gets a power up just in time to beat the big bad evil boss" do not classify as asspull.
>>
>>19368332
"Gohan gets angry and then dramatically surpasses his father in power was a thing that was happening ince he was first introduced. Goku quickly noticed it and made it his plan.
>>
>>19368332
maybe try watching the shows you criticize so much once in a while, dumb twitter tourist
>>
>>19368332
If something is predictable, it's not an asspull, good job refuting your own argument.
>>
>>19368332
You're a dumbfuck
>>
>>19367297
Dragon-Ball Augments are OP.
Earth should really embrace Cyborg/Android tech. Just have humans undergo the augmentation when they reach 21 or something as a right of passage. Better than relying on like 10 rondos who love fighting and will risk the planet for a cheap thrill. Like, we saw in DBSuper that 18&17 were capable of making it to the 'final rounds', that proves earth tech beats dumb KI magic.
>>
>>19369826
Yea but Doctor Gero was enough of a douche to probably destroy his own plans so no one else could copy them.

So no cybernetic revolution as the only guy who knew how to do it decided he couldn't get past his hateboner for Goku and instead of getting rich as fuck decided to keep making killer robots and cyborgs to try and kill him.
>>
>>19369874
It's kind of funny how Gero could create guys who could literally one shot the most powerful beings in the universe in a cave out of a box of scraps. Almost makes one think that if the Red Ribbon Army had won all the way back in Dragon Ball that Earth could have eventually curbstomped Frieza and ended up as rulers of the universe.
>>
>>19369932
He probably would have refused to help them after a while once he realized he could be the boss. He's not going to upgrade randoms as he wants to make sure they're going to be loyal.

Too bad everything he makes seems to betray him. First it was Robot #8 then the 17/18 pair then Cell. The guy really sucked at ensuring loyalty.

So it only takes Robot #XX to off him and it's gone again. He needs to be in charge. He can't trust anyone else to do the job right.

Fucker's his own worst enemy
>>
>>19367297
>Still the only character who remains perma dead in a universe where literally everyone else has died and come back to life at least once.

Why?
>>
>>19369947
Wasn't he full robot? Probably that.
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>>19369947
>yfw FighterZ becomes canon
And Raditz is perma dead because nobody in universe cared for him.
>>
>>19369977

> Android 16 has the psycoframe sample
>>
>>19369939
>Kidnaps 2 kids
>Makes them leaps and bounds stronger than he is
>Releases them to do a job they don't care about, knowing full well they have a history of disobedience
>"Let me just wave this kill switch in their faces as if I didn't literally build them to move faster than I can react lmao"
>"Really should have made that an internal function instead of a goofy fucking hand-held remote"
Android/Cell saga is probably peak DBZ but its still dumb as fuck.
>>
>>19369997
He's got the entire MAD SCIENTIST vibe going on. Making smart plans is beyond him. He just figures it'll work out as he planned as he's a genius and thus it'll work out all according to plan.

There's a reason he never was allowed to lead anything in the Red Ribbon Army. He can't lead or plan worth a damn.
>>
>>19369947
Super Buu is permanently gone because he literally doesn't exist.
>>
>>19370052
>>19369997

>There's a reason he never was allowed to lead anything in the Red Ribbon Army. He can't lead or plan worth a damn.
Wow, this really makes sense. The Red Ribbons really were smarter that I thought
>>
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>>19369932
>Almost makes one think that if the Red Ribbon Army had won all the way back in Dragon Ball that Earth could have eventually curbstomped Frieza and ended up as rulers of the universe.
One of the biggest failings of the Xenoverse games is that they tease at alternate timelines like this in the dialogue of random NPCs around the hub area, but never actually do anything with it or even let you see them in side-missions.
One guy mentions in bits and pieces as you progress through the first game that the timeline he's been sent to has seen Earth ravaged by a three-way war between Demon King Piccolo (who fused with Kami to return to full strength) and his mutant Namekian army, Babidi's Majin army (presumably led by Buu), and Earth's last line of defense is actually an army of Red Ribbon androids led by Gero. It's by far a more interesting plot than the actual main plot of the game, and it's stuck in random NPC dialogue.
>>
>>19370987
funny how we used to get stuff like that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DNTdJFCJqo
>>
>>19368332
>what is foreshadowing
>>
>>19367297
Oolong is
>>
>>19369947
16 should've come back when they wished back everyone who Cell killed. Eighter got revived under similar circumstances.

Maybe he's just off-camera hangin' out with birds
>>
>>19372078
Was 8 even killed by anyone?
>>
>>19372135
I think he dies in that one movie.
>>
>>19372135
King Piccolo?
>>
>>19370987
(Buu)
Doubt it since it need SSJ2 ki and 2 D
SSJ3 fighting to awaken him.

Though I wont get surprised if Bibddi fuel chaos and war just to awaken Buu.
(Probably though he was safe with Daubra)
>>
>>19372142
yep
>>
>>19367297
FUCKING BUFF HIM BACK ASW FOR FUCK SAKES FUCK YOU ALL HE NEEDS IS A FUCKING DAMAGE/METER BUFF AND ALLOWING HIM TO FOLLOW UP AFTER 214x. IT'S NOT THAT FUCKING HARD. I'M NOT EVEN ASKING FOR THE ARMOR BACK BUT THAT WOULD BE NICE TOO SINCE ZBROLY GETS FUCKING ARMOR ON ALL OF HIS BULLSHIT.
>>
>>19376660
Sorry too busy keeping UI Goku untouched then to worry about your low tier /m/ fighter.
>>
>>19376695
this fucking faggot wouldn't piss me off if people online would stop fucking downplaying him.
I seriously think he's worse than GT, Gotenks, A16, and the other top tier menace. His defense is way too fucking good, his counter 1 super does way too much fucking damage and he can just escape the fucking corner so easily and for free. While the other characters in their prime probably beat him in neutral, his neutral is still fucking good. and good lord his Assist A is the biggest fucking bullshit I've ever seen. With Bardock at least you can super jump that shit, but UI punishes any fucking offense.
>>
>>19369947
Didn't the two psychopathic hunters remain dead? I just remember the second dying in the most horrific way possible.
>>
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>>19369977
>fucking dies again
>in every fucking route
good fucking lord lmao
>>
>>19372135
Buu when he killed everyone on Earth.

>>19372078
8 was a frankenstein monster nod, so he was obviously organic (note that the operation scene in the DB anime was filler, nowhere in the manga is stated he has mechanical parts other than a bomb).

16 was full machine, so it wasn't considered "alive" I guess.
>>
>>19368332
he's literally shown going SS2 for a split second in the HBTC lmao u dumbass
>>
>>19379272
gonna need some proof of him being organic
>>
Anyone else think its weird that Krillin still calls his wife 18, despite that just being the designation Gero gave her? Like marrying a holocaust survivor and still calling her Prisoner 92748 the rest of her life. Im pretty sure her and 17 have established names
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>>19379411
>gonna need some proof of him being organic
I guess you never read the manga, if anything you should need proof of him being mechanical
>feels pain when General White shoots him
>sweats
Also he's literally modeled after the Frankenstein monster, stitches and all. Why would you look at that and think "yep, clearly 100% machine".
>>
>>19379849
bruh 16 "bleeds"
>>
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>>19369826
What if 17/18 were twin girls?
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>>19379764
they have names but she still prefers the number 18. No idea why. she entered herself in the budokai as 18.
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>>19386981
That arc was shit and you should be ashamed for bumping this thread for doing so, a major reason why GT is considered bad
>>
He is /m/ and /an/.
>>
>>19386981
>suddenly Android 19
>>
>>19376776
>two psychopathic hunters
Not sure who you mean.
>>
>>19386981
>everyone remains weak so they could instantly job in an episode
>except 17 and his evil clone that was somehow created out of thin air
Wasted potential.
>>
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Behold one of the most kino DBZ filler episodes, and it's /m/-related.
>>
>>19390430
DBZ Filler will always be redeemed by the Driver's License episode
>>
>>19390430
I keep forgetting about this guy, shows up at least in the recent kakorot game
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>>19390439
That one is good because it's funny, but there's actually some really good ones early on in DBZ, the ones about Gohan living alone under Piccolo's training. They have an adventurous motif and a definitive "coming of age" theme (even if Gohan is too young, he needed to grow up prematurely in order to fight the saiyans). In the manga we never see the process, but in the anime they showed the various instances of Gohan going from a scared child to a warrior who has seen death and danger and overcame it.
One of the episodes (I think it was 9) was about Gohan befriending a small dinosaur (not the dragon that appears later on in the series), but the bigger carnivorous dinosaur ends up eating the smaller one, and Gohan was unable to save him, only finding the skeleton afterwards. Tears start flowing through Gohan's eyes but quickly his sad face turns into a sort of malicious smile, as he wipes his tears. While this happens, the narrator sayis something like "Gohan has learned a valuable lesson about life and death". It gives me chills every time I remember it. The big dinosaur is the one that eventually becomes bullied by Gohan later on.
The beginning of Z also had really good budget so the animation in those filler eps is excellent too.
>>
>>19390466
yeah there's certainly some duds in the DBZ fillers like "Kami and Popo run slowly from some ghosts"
but really I mostly prefer watching the Naruto filler eps than I do the core story. Like, I already went through the main story in the comics, getting to see the seven billion other characters having fun ninja adventures is a lot more appealing to me as a new experience
>>
>>19367297
so jog my memory here, 16 was a full android right? So what about 17 and 18. Since Krillin was able to reproduce with 18 that means they must be cyborgs that are fundamentally human right? so why are they still called androids?
>>
>>19390542
17, 18 and 20 (Gero) are more like enhanced humans rather than machines. I do think both 16 and 19 are fully mechs though.
>>
>>19390542
And to expand on why are they called androids, the original term in japanese is "jinzo ningen" or "artificial humans", that includes Cell, which is made of literal cells.
They're artificial because they were engineered by Gero, who was a human, but they're more than just regular robots. In the case of 17, 18 and 20, as I said, they're former humans that got their bodies modified. In the case of Cell, he's a weird living creature that's like a clone of all the best warriors of Earth (and Namek), all in one.
>>
>>19390566
yeah the whole "android" thing is sort of a clusterfuck of translations issues from everything I'v heard
>>
>>19390570
android is the correct translation really. it's just that toriyama used the wrong word.
>>
>>19390581
iirc isn't Jinzou Ningen like "human made person" whereas Kaizou Ningen is "mechanical person (who was made of mechanicals)"?
>>
>>19390453
I just checked and it seems he only appears in 2 games: Attack of the Saiyans for DS (pic related) and as an item in Battle of Z.
>In Attack of the Saiyans, it is revealed that he is still in the ancient ruins half a year later, but with a dead battery. Gohan promptly finds a new battery for him, but he cannot free him from the rubble atop him so he decides to leave the robot there. Gohan then meets up with Piccolo again and leaves the robot and Nemuria Ruins.
Poor guy...
>>
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>>19389285
The dude who shot Bee and his lackey
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>>19390611
that's the term associated with cyborgs. it could have been used for 17 and 18 but they were alll under a single umbrella term.
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>>19390611 >>19391149
Don't forget Toriyama probably didn't even originally plan on 17 & 18 let alone them being cyborgs
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>>19391294
>probably
We have outright confirmation of that in interviews from over the years. The whole Android/Cell saga is such a clusterfuck because his editor kept making fun of his designs and telling him he needs to make something "cooler". So we go from 19/20 being The Androids, to 16/17/18 being The Real Androids, to "but wait, the androids aren't the big threat!", etc.
>>
>>19391294
>>19392885
And it doesn't matter because that's literally how Dragon Ball always was. Toriyama didn't intent to extend the story past the first time they summon Shenron.
Toriyama manages to still make memorable characters and arcs despite not planning shit ahead (and then forgetting about shit later), that's one of his fortes.
>>
>>19390703
>>19390636
>>19371560
>>19367297

man toriyama makes some good mechanical designs when hes able to. even all the way back to Dr Slump.
i want more
>>
>>19390636
kek
>>
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>>19393025
Yeah he's genuinely great at it.
Pic related was his favorite illustration, at least back in the 90s. He's usually pretty harsh with his own pieces and never fully likes them/feels embarrassed about them, but he was proud of this one.
>>
>>19393974
Does he at least get to design any /m/ for Dragon Quest?
>>
>>19367577
>>19367553
The transformation itself isn't an asspull, but Gohan didn't bond enough with 16. The reader is meant to feel the saddest about it, not the character.
>>
>>19367553
edgelords call literally anything in DB an asspull
>>19368332
If it was set up then its not an asspull. It being used repeatedly is another issue.
And in the original manga it only happened in the Freeza and Cell arcs and that's if we assume Gohan was "the arc's protagonist" which not only he wasn't but that'd also be original because jump manga usually stick to one MC(and the one that didn't came out after DB).
>>
>>19369932
> in a cave out of a box of scraps
No, he had resources
>>19379764
They're called Lapis(17) and Lazuli(18), why they still use their android names i don't know, probably because they were named after the fact and now its just how it is.
>>19393025
He's really talented design-wise(not only mech but in general) and ultimately wasted because he only works on a strictly fantasy franchise(DQ) or Dragon Ball(which is less limited premise-wise but saiyans and villains are more profitable).
>>
>>19367297
>Greenriver
Of course he is.
>>
>>19395526
see: >>19390703
>>
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Has Capsule Corp ever did anything military-related?
It seems most of their products are aimed at comfort and helping everyday life menial tasks, but at its core they're all excellent inventions that, before comfort, make for some incredibly useful practical and survival tools that would be great for warfare, yet iirc all the military in DB doesn't really differentiate much from real world stuff. I don't remember any fancy mech, just tanks and regular guns.
>>
>>19396130
Likin' these li'l spider Rick Doms

>>19395648
>didn't bond enough

How do people miss points this badly?
>>
>>19367297
People say Dragon Ball went to shit after the Saiyan invasion but man was the beginning of Cell saga amazing
>>
>>19392930
First time, meaning when the Oolong saved the world by wishing for a pair of panties? How the heck was the story supposed to end there?
>>
>>19399817
He wasn't planning for it to be a long running series, simple as. Toriyama did a lot of short series or one-offs.
>>
>>19399817
Yes. Toriyama doesn't write heroic epic, he shines best in his short comedic stories. Part of the appeal of DB(the original manga at least) is that the writer is forced to go to a genre he's not confortable in. Even in the serious Cell saga you have overt comedy like Goku with KaioSama or Mr Satan himself to more subtle shit like the fact this world-ending conflict is about a character that looks like a dude cosplaying a bug(or a showa toku villain general, take your pick).
The Oolong ending was the only "planned ending", everything after is just extension either to gain(the first tournament) or because of(popularity). It's the proof that you can manufacture sucess.
>>
>>19400944
>It's the proof that you can manufacture sucess.
it's the other way around to me. It'd make more sense if something was planned way ahead and meticulously produced, that's what I'd call manufactured. What Toriyama does is more like improv.
>>
>>19401011
Its manufactured in the sense that Shueisha took a sucessful mangaka, guided him into(eventually) making an action series and basically since the beggining Toei was on board with making the anime adaptation with high-profile talent.
>>
>>19401047
Yeah, but ultimately the creator mind was Toriyama's, and it was thanks to him that we got Dragon Ball as it is.
Also, we can say that pretty much anything anime, manga and anything entertainment is "manufactured" from a strict objective point of view.
>>
>>19367470
>>19367483
There's shitloads of mecha in Dragon Ball.
>>
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>>19401144
Yeah, the climax of the Red Ribbon saga was Goku wrecking a powerful mech bare knuckle
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>>19401144
...Gate Guardian?
>>
>>19384821
because Lapis and Lazuli are stripper names
>>
>>19390542
>>19390570
in non-english dubs, they are called Cyborg 17 and 18, or just C17 and C18
>>
>>19401144
Young Goku had to face a lot of robots back in Dragon Ball(aka when Dragon Ball was great and funny).
>>
>>19368332
>since the beginning of Dragon Ball Z, Gohan has show some power up moments given to his rage and lack of self-control
>it gets to a point that even Goku can recognize it and see how if Gohan can control it, he will be far stronger than Goku himself
>somehow it is an asspull
>>
>>19402772
In PT-BR, they are called 18 and 17, but when they were announced, it was "Androides nº 17 e nº 18"(nº = numero = number).
>>
>>19390611
Jinzou Ningen is "Artificially made human", while Kaizou Ningen is "Artificially modified human". Jinzouningen is essentially the word used for Androids in Japanese though, although it's also used for artificial biological creations (Android itself often had this meaning too up to the 70s but then that meaining mostly fell into disuse). Either way, calling 18 and 17 Jinzou Ningen is odd too because they weren't created, just modified.

Note that even the characters themselves are confused in the story due to the weird name choice (like Goku wondering how the hell 18 had a daughter).
>>
>>19402772
In Mexican dub they were Androids
>>
>>19402790
*sip*
>>
>>19405693
sip means "yep" in spanish.
>>
>>19401144
>>19401290
Fuck I miss this era. Dragonball was awesome. I hate Super.





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