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What the fuck is his problem?
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>>19269170

> I want, I want, I want
> Don't get

He was an entitled shit, without the skill or charisma to back it up. Which makes it all the funnier than some people put him on a pedestal as the "manliest" character or something.
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Okay are ANY of Stardust's characters likable? I haven't seen it yet but every time it's mentioned it's either bitching about the romance, bitching about the characters, or Cima mommy milkies
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>>19269182
>Which makes it all the funnier than some people put him on a pedestal as the "manliest" character or something.
It's surprisingly common that when a character is portrayed as a petty asshole or a childish bully they end up being idolised by a bunch of viewers who try to spin them as correct because they wish they could get away with what they're doing or be in a similar position of power. Monshu is a total dumbass who only has being a good pilot going for him and is constantly whining and complaining, but because they're so full of themselves they simply do whatever they want whenever they want regardless of the result being they have zero respect from anybody but their immediate friend circle which is the "manly" way to live if you're some loser who is scared of basic social interaction and talking to girls and can't understand the difference between confidence and bluster.
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>>19269219
Keith and Moira
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>>19269219
You watch mecha for the mecha. 0083 does not dissapoint.
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>>19269251
this
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>>19269170
insufferable incel
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>>19269251

It's kind of funny how Keith is written to be a spineless wimp but turns out to be a more respectable guy than any of his co-pilots.
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>>19269219
I liked most of the characters
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>>19269170
>I hate ZEON with a passion
>Joins Neo Zeon some years later
Yeah Monsha what's up with that?
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>>19269229

I don't even know that his friends respect him. They like him, clearly, but like isn't the same as respect. When he pulled that stunt with the card that turned off the electricity as Kou was landing the core fighter, one of them walked away and they were both basically telling him to leave it off when he started ranting at Kou afterwards.
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>>19269170
0083 Anime:

Having to deal with an idiotic academy graduate rookie pilot who somehow gets assigned the most powerful mobile suit in the entire squad despite having no combat experience. And rightfully the Gundam should either be piloted by either himself or Lieutenant Burning. Monsha was gunning down Zeeks in the One Year War while Kou was still a snot nosed child. But no one gives a shit about merit, or gives him respect.

Then when the Gundam gets taken out against orders, and Kou trashes it requiring MASSIVE repairs....Monsha finally gets a chance to be the pilot! But wait -- is Kou punished for his insubordination? Relieved of duty? Thrown in the brig for destroying tens millions of Federation dollars worth of equipment? NOPE! He gets rewarded, and given a shiny NEW Gundam instead. Monsha has to stick with an old GM.

Then when Kou wrecks THAT new Gundam only a few episodes later, does Monsha finally get assigned a new Gundam? NOPE! The snot nosed brat who wrecked 2 gundams gets a THIRD Gundam.

WTF is this nonsense. The way the Albion operates is dysfunctional. No one respects the chain of command or listen to orders. No wonder Monsha just drinks his free time away and tries to hit on women.

0083 Manga:

Same thing. Except Monsha officially get assigned to be the official pilot of the Dendrobium. Except Kou is so obsessed with Gato that he hijacks the Dendrobium from Monsha and kicks him out.

Then, we find out the manga version of Dendrobium actually uses two pilots. You would think Monsha gets to be the pilot. NOPE! Kou demands that Kelly (who survived in the manga and killed Lieutenant Burning instead). A fucking one armed traitorous Spacenoid cripple who killed Monsha's teacher and mentor gets be the Dendrobium #2 pilot?! What is this shit. Monsha wanted to kill him, but was stopped by his crewmates.

No wonder Monsha didn't care about the Albion, and joined the Titans afterwards. At least the Titans do their fucking job!
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>>19269305
>At least the Titans do their fucking job!
>Doesn't get job done
>Joins ReZeon
>Defects
>Joins Mars Zeon
Monsha gets to "do" nothing but lose
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>>19269219
>Okay are ANY of Stardust's characters likable?
I actually do like Kou. People on /m/ make him out to be a weak cuck or simp, but I relate to him as one of the guys trying to prove something to be better. A soldier trying to do the right thing. I think how he handled the situation with Kelly is very relatable.

I actually like Nina, early Nina. She seems icy because her Gundams are her priority and seems to consider pilots a much lower priority, but I see it as someone in that position, having to deal with unpredictable pilots that can dissapoint her, where Gundams and mobile suits she knows and can deal with in a much more reliable way.

Keith is a cool bro, and Lt. Burning is that leader that you can put your trust in and you know at the end of the day, no matter how much shit he gives you for your performance as a pilot, as long as you do your best, he will have your back.
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>>19269251
moira is such a fucking gigantic beautiful goddess
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>>19269305
>At least the Titans do their fucking job!
The Titans at no point are ever portrayed as doing their job in Zeta Gundam, I don't know why everybody keeps using them as a vehicle for their anti-zeek fantasies. Is it literally just the uniform that makes people pretend that the Titans aren't a bunch of high school bullies with military hardware? They fucking team up with Zeon, not fight them, and the Titans remnants in ZZ are stated to have joined Zeon.
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>>19269315
>>19269323
Only after the Federation government abandoned them, and did nothing to stop the AEUG. The people, and government who were supposed to SUPPORT YOU turn traitor just because some blonde dude hijacked the Capital Federation Building and gave a lame speech on TV about environmentalism. Give me a break.

You want to complain? Monsha's attitude was abrasive, but he had legitimate complaints about the Albion. Kou had no right to pilot the Gundam. If were the real world military, then the Gundam would go to the most senior flight officer.

Then the woman Monsha is interested in (Nina) ends up dating someone around many years younger than her. Who isn't even old enough to drink alcohol, and complains when he has to eat vegetables. Then to make matters worse, that same damn woman ends up being a Federation TRAITOR and helps Zeon and Gato drop a colony on Earth killing millions. And did Kou stop her or put a bullet in her head when he had the chance? Nope!
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>>19269331
>Only after the Federation government abandoned them, and did nothing to stop the AEUG
I dunno anon maybe it was because they kept gassing colonies, taking cities hostage, taking colonies hostage, nuking their own military bases, and so on. We don't once ever see the Titans do their job, stop trying to self insert.
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>>19269170
The Albion was supposed to be a huge career boost for Monsha, but instead his career is tarnished by being assigned to the ship that let Gato steal a nuke, and blow up the Federation Fleet. No one is going to give Monsha a promotion after being assigned to the ship that everyone hates in the Federation. Then he gets passed over for a promotion, and Kou gets the Gundam instead even though Kou is a rookie with no achievements. I would be pretty pissed too.
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>>19269315
No one said Monsha is "perfect". I don't know why you are insulting the man for doing a good job nearly his whole career, then at the end of his career leaving Earth for Mars. He basically said "Fuck this shit I'm out. I'm done. I'm going to live on Mars." What's the problem?
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>>19269341
Blowing up Jaburo was probably one of the worst things they did. It's bad enough you're already committing heinous crimes by killing millions in colonies, but to then kill your own men and destroy former main base of the Federation using a fucking nuke? How the fuck did they survive this?
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>>19269343
Wut? Monsha and everyone on the Albion, minus Synapse, were assigned to the Alexandria-class Al Giza. Which was the 2nd ship of the class. That means that other pilots/crew members of other ships were past over in selection.
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>>19269331
>If were the real world military, then the Gundam would go to the most senior flight officer.
And if it were the real world military Monsha wouldn't have a career after nearly destroying a ship's hangar and a ludicrously expensive high-spec piece of military hardware via a childish, petty prank because he was salty that he didn't get to pilot it. Imagine pulling that shit with a jet that costs over two billion dollars.
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>>19269355
>What's the problem?
That even on Mars, he had to be a scumbag and change sides to another zeon faction. That's 8 levels of hypocrisy
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>>19269331

> Only after the Federation government abandoned them, and did nothing to stop the AEUG.

The Titans were the Federation army at that point; it was their job to stop groups like AEUG. Or to prove themselves the superior force, not just martially, but socially so they didn't need to be fought. They didn't though. The Federation government didn't turn on them because of Char's speech; they turned on the Titans because the Titans were willing to endanger or kill the Federation government to attack people who demonstrably just wanted to talk. Which is entirely their own fault.

Also, talent always plays a part in deciding who gets a thing and not just seniority. Monsha was not a particularly talented pilot, and Kou's scores and performance both apparently beat his out. It's up to command who to give a thing, by merit if they so chose and not just by rigid rules of seniority.

He has even less to whine about with regards to Nina, because love does not have rules full stop and he demonstrated himself to be a lech with no convictions. Repeatedly. He hit on every woman around him, endangered other people to sate his own anger and then when confronted about his actions turns in to a simpering fool, begging to be forgiven rather than have any confidence in his actions. He doesn't get any respect, because he never did anything to earn any.
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>>19269255
>You watch mecha for the mecha
Half-truth at best.
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>>19269357
Go by MSV-R, they just covered it all up. And that explanation kind of makes sense because Jaburo has never been brought up in any later UC animation. Don't know what fluff before MSV-R.
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>>19269374
Did they silence every officer who evacuated? We see one or two ships carrying Federation personnel and we know they made it because Jerid was on one.
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>>19269366
>That even on Mars, he had to be a scumbag and change sides to another zeon faction. That's 8 levels of hypocrisy
What the hell was Monsha supposed to do??? He was assigned to the Titans. Did his job, then out of nowhere the AEUG uses a weapon of mass destruction, kills most of the Titans fleet (including workers, technicians, and non-combat/non-pilot people that had fucking nothing to do with gassing that colony), and Monsha is now apparently a "war criminal" when all he did was pilot a mobile suit. Monsha can't go back home now. He'll be arrested, and shoved in prison. He didn't CHOOSE Zeon. He had no choice. Mars was his only option left.
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>>19269357
>Blowing up Jaburo was probably one of the worst things they did. It's bad enough you're already committing heinous crimes by killing millions in colonies, but to then kill your own men and destroy former main base of the Federation using a fucking nuke? How the fuck did they survive this?

What's your point? Londo Bell does the same shit in Unicorn. Fighting inside a civilian colony. Blowing holes in colony killing thousands. Opening fire on civilians. Sending in execution death squads to break into private properly, and shooting civilians on sight without arrest or warrant. Using weapons of mass destruction. Slamming asteroids into civilian populated areas.

What's your point?
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>>19269386

I'm pretty sure that was ECOAS, not Londo Bell. And that even then, a lot of it was The Sleeves, or fighting with them causing collateral damage and not intentionally targeting friendly groups just to scare others in to submission.
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>>19269394
>It was ECOAS not Londo Bell!
And that excuses all those war crimes? WTF is wrong with you??
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>>19269397

When did I say it excuses them? I think it's pretty important to identify the correct group when aportioning blame for something as serious as a war crime. Not just blame anyone on the scene, and be happy with that. Also, to take context in to account. And there is a lot of difference in the context of both cases. What happened in Unicorn is still bad, but the Titans are worse, in every conceivable way.
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>>19269382
Didn't stop Yazan from getting back into the Federation. Hell he ended up in the pocket of Gopp of all people. Thats pretty good from climbing from the lowest of lows in ZZ.
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>>19269397
>anon actually thinks it should be play out like a game of Risk
We're talking about the same thing right anon? A proxy war with a terrorist group and a 3rd party corporation
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>>19269394
It's all the Federation anon. Just like a division of Zeon is still Zeon.
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>>19269416
>We're talking about the same thing right anon? A proxy war with a terrorist group and a 3rd party corporation

Londo Bell and ECOAS are not a 3rd party corporation. They committed those crimes.
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>>19269397
>MUH CRIMES
>any party other than the most losing side
lol babby's first war
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>>19269170
Mecha janai
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>>19269417

Okay? I wasn't aware we were even arguing about Zeon, but if that's what's in your cra, then sure, they're all Federation. Just because they're all Federation doesn't mean just blaming anyone for the actions of some is okay. If that's your view, then I guess we can just blame Councillor McScapegoat of the Federation, and let him hang for if while the actual perpetrators get off. They're all Federation after all.
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>>19269419
>not a 3rd party corporation
We talking Vist Foundation. They had a deal with the Federation yet still did a backroom deal with The Sleeves
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>>19269430
>let him hang for if while the actual perpetrators get off.
Happens all the time in the Federation though. Synapse, Kowen was suppressed, Pic Related: He turned on Grave and gave the info about the Slave Wraiths to Revel. That's why he's so high ranked in the earth forces by 0083.
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>>19269431
>We talking Vist Foundation. They had a deal with the Federation yet still did a backroom deal with The Sleeves
Vist hadn't actually done anything yet. There were still just talking when the Federation raided the colony and start killing thousands of people.
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>>19269437

Are we talking about what does happen? Or what should happen? Because I thought it was the latter. If it's just what does happen, then I don't even see the point of discussion anymore, honestly, since why does it matter who gets the blame for war crimes if corruption is just expected and accepted?
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>>19269442
Vist had a deal to produce the Unicorn and the Federation gave Vist a few Silver Bullets before episode 1 of Unicorn. That's why the Federation developed the Jesta as escort units.
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>>19269305
>Kelly becomes co-pilot of Dendrobium
What? Why? Do they not even kill Cima or something?
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>>19269446
>Or what should happen?
if that ever happened in Gundam it would be a real short franchise
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>>19269454
Nope she lived since she got impaled by one of the canons from Bask's ship, and her last appearance was with Alice Miller
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>>19269454
>What? Why? Do they not even kill Cima or something?
Kelly drags a female Anaheim engineer into the second cockpit, and points a gun at her head and demands to be the 2nd Pilot or he will kill her. Kou vouches for him on the communications channel, and says for everyone to trust Kelly. Monsha (the only guy with common sense) is the only one yelling and screaming that they should just kill Kelly, and to stop making deals with Zeon. But Captain Synapse allows Kelly to be the 2nd pilot.

Kelly wants to confront Gato and ask why they are dropping a colony on the moon (where the woman Kelly loves is living). The only way to do that is to ride with Kou in the Dendrobium. (Kelly was not fully briefed about full details of Operation Stardust. He does not know that the Moon will fire their laser, which will ignite the Colony propellant, and redirect the Colony to Earth)

They confront Gato (who piloting the Neue Ziel) together in the Dendrobium. Kelly starts yelling at Gato. Gato stunned asks WTF is Kelly doing by helping Kou in the Dendrobium, and helping the Federation. He calls Kelly a traitor. They argue. Kelly yells some more about the woman he loves lives on the Moon. And why is Operation Stardust dropping a colony on the Moon. Gato can't tell Kelly everything since well, the final target is top secret, and Kou is listening and recording everything.

Gato says they fought together for so long, and that Kelly needs to trust him.Gato gets angry with Kelly by saying Kelly jeopardizing the entire Operation over a woman, and that he's WEAK. The colony gets redirected towards Earth by the Moon's ignition laser. Kelly is stunned, and didn't realize the moon wasn't the target.

Gato tells Kelly to GTFO, that they aren't friends anymore, and that he's a traitor. And that why couldn't Kelly just trust Gato after all they've been through together during the one year war as comrades. He should have known that Gato would never do such a thing. Then Gato flies away.
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>>19269394
>>19269408
>>19269416
LOL WHAT? Don't feed me your garbage. Londo Bell were killing civilians and opening fire on the colony. THEY EVEN FIRED WITH THEIR MAIN CANNON ON THE COLONY. Captain Otis is Londo Bell. Don't try to say "well that was Ecoas killing people not Londo Bell" trash. This Londo Bell captain did it so casually that he didn't even need to speak. The crew were already used to this type of action that no words were needed. Just a snap of the fingers. And BOOM. Beam death.
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>>19269367
>Monsha was not a particularly talented pilot, and Kou's scores and performance both apparently beat his out. It's up to command who to give a thing, by merit if they so chose and not just by rigid rules of seniority.
That crap and nonsense. That "mock battle" they had where the winner pilots the Gundam means nothing. Why the hell in the mock battle does Kou pilot the Gundam when Monsha pilots a GM? It makes zero sense. Anyone with a brain should know that both should be piloting a GM and the winner gets to pilot the Gundam.
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>>19269251
See file name we all know its true.
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>>19269490
>Monsha (the only guy with common sense) is the only one yelling and screaming that they should just kill Kelly, and to stop making deals with Zeon.
based
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His pupil is stupid.
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>>19269506
Chalk that up to Monsha being monstrously retarded and confident, then. They're not there to settle anything official, it's for bragging rights. At most all it means is that the loser would stop competing for the position of being the GP01's designated pilot, but it means jackshit because it wouldn't factor into the decision-making anyway.

I mean, Kou could lose the fight and they'd still appoint him the GP01's pilot anyway.
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>>19269552
>I mean, Kou could lose the fight and they'd still appoint him the GP01's pilot anyway.
Nah. If Kou lost the fight while piloting a bleeding edge Gundam against Monsha using a GM. There is no way Nina would have approved Kou being the main pilot of her Gundam. Plus it makes her look bad to select a loser.
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I really like the GM Custom
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>>19269170
He was an asshole.
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>>19269367
>The Titans were the Federation army at that point; it was their job to stop groups like AEUG. Or to prove themselves the superior force, not just martially, but socially so they didn't need to be fought. They didn't though. The Federation government didn't turn on them because of Char's speech; they turned on the Titans because the Titans were willing to endanger or kill the Federation government to attack people who demonstrably just wanted to talk. Which is entirely their own fault.
I think all the Gundam anime have proven that Spacenoids don't like any form of large government. Even their own. They are always fighting some war or starting some battle. Even when left alone, Spacenoids start their own Empire and try to conquer everyone else.
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>>19269182
>Which makes it all the funnier than some people put him on a pedestal as the "manliest" character or something.

Literally no one did this, you invented that shit from your ass. Go back to twitter fag.
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>>19269305
t. Monsha
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>>19269716
Anytime 0083 is brought up there will be at least 3 people in the thread saying Monsha is based and should've been the Gundam pilot
Cope harder
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>>19269219
There's a man named South Burning.
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>>19269343
>I would be pretty pissed too.
So you'd also sperg out constantly and be a sore loser about it?
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>>19269497

> LOL WHAT? Don't feed me your garbage. Londo Bell were killing civilians and opening fire on the colony.

Londo Bell were surrounding the colony in mobile suits, while ECOAS were the ones who infiltrated the colony with infantry using Lotos. ECOAS operatives are the ones opening fire on civilians, sending in execution death squads to break into private property and shooting civilians on sight without arrest or warrant. Londo Bell didn't act aggressively until a Sleeves pilot panicked upon detecting them, and started attacking them. At which point, they only attacked that one pilot. They don't start a general melee until Marida attacks them, and forces them to defend themselves. Gilboa seems to order her to attack them inside the colony, going off their dialogue. Even your example of "blowing a hole in the colony" is pretty limp, because it's Londo Bell destroying the door of a colony dock, which, by design, must have multiple layers of protection against a vacuum or else it can't operate as a dock for traffic from a vacuum. We don't even see anyone killed by it. Banagher and his classmates are in the dock, and none of them struggle with vacuum exposure. They are exposed to danger, including what looks like a few dozen students being killed, when the Kshatriya and a ReZel destroy part of the infrastructure around them in their fighting, but they are not exposed to a vacuum.
>>
The one time that there is a hole opened in to the colony to vacuum is when Marida blows up a Jegan on the inner shell, and the explosion tears through the colony wall. The ECOAS stuff is also unlikely to be classified as a war crime for the simple reason that the Vist Foundation were dealing with terrorists and so opening themselves up to government reprisals by their own actions. ECOAS opened fire on Zimmerman and the Sleeves personnel, but held Cardeas at gunpoint and only opened fire when he attacked them. Nothing anyone does in that episode is even close to the kind of shit the Titans pulled. Never mind that Londo Bell personnel actively protect civilians from the damage being caused by the fighting with Marida (the ECOAS fighting isn't causing any collateral damage that we see). The one time anything in Unicorn comes close to rivalling the actions of the Titans really is in the final episode, with the colony laser and Londo Bell are firmly against that.
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>>19269219
>Okay are ANY of Stardust's characters likable?
Burning, Kieth, Moira, and Synapse.
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>>19270095
>At which point, they only attacked that one pilot
Iirc the Stark Jegan even tries to stop one of the other Jegans from actually killing that guy
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>>19269490
>>19269305
Rebellion really shit the bed hard, hilarious.
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>>19270132

The first ReZel that engages the Geara Zulu after the Geara Zulu attacks (mostly) sticks to melee attacks and slices it in ways that won't destroy it several times, as if trying to disable or disarm rather than destroy. I say mostly because it's first attack is a beam rifle shot, which takes off a leg. After that it just uses it's beam saber though. Regardless, when the Geara Zulu rushes another suit despite it's damaged state (missing multiple limbs, head hanging off etc), that ReZel shoots it with it's beam rifle, and the other ReZel makes a move as if going to stop it, before backing away when it fires a shot that destroys the Geara Zulu. The first ReZel may have been trying to capture the pilot as a prisoner for interrogation, rather than having any compunction against using a ranged weapon near a colony though.

That said, when it does use it's beam rifle it's pointing away from the colony cylinder, and the pilot may actually have been concerned about that. The various suits in the fight do appear to use a more scattered shot when firing at first, that may be lower in power or something, before defaulting to the normal solid beams we see generally used in Gundam. Which may indicate concern for fighting inside or near a colony when they're not fighting for their life.
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Nobody ever complimented his moustache. Not even once.
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>>19270187
So titanism?
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>>19270095
The amount of Federation cope here is ridiculous.

1. You don't start a Mobile Suit Battle in a colony. End of Discussion

2. You don't fire into a Colony with your Mega particle Cannon.
You have no idea how many people died or suffered. Whether it's a little or a lot. It does not justify the action. End of Discussion.

3. It doesn't matter if it's Londo Bell or ECOAS. That's splitting hairs and distracting from the point. It's clearly an authorized operation and they are all working together as part of the Federation Fleet.

If you wish to continue splitting hairs, then my only question is when are ECOAS going to stand trial for all the people they murdered in cold blood, and all the Civilians they killed?
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>>19270187
>Real life politics being inserted into an early 1990s anime
>Mentioning Donald Trump

Disgusting. Reddit is that way --------->
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>>19270241
The Operation Stardust is literally 9/11 prediction. Titans = Patriot Act.
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>>19270238

> 1. You don't start a Mobile Suit Battle in a colony. End of Discussion

They didn't; The Sleeves were the ones who started attacking them. We even see Marida ask Gilboa if he's ordered her to attack inside a colony.

> 2. You don't fire into a Colony with your Mega particle Cannon.

I'm assuming you mean "beam rifle", since ReZel's don't have mega particle cannons, though the Kshatriya does. Regardless, you don't if you have a choice. It's a lot harder to justify caution, or even to remember it, when you're fighting for your life.

> 3. It doesn't matter if it's Londo Bell or ECOAS.

It absolutely does if it's about trying to ascertain who should be prosecuted for a war crime, and one or the other may not have been involved in the actual crimes. They were clearly authorized, but they were also clearly targeting terrorists and trying to abstain from endangering civilians on any level until The Sleeves attacked them while in the area of civilians. If it's a choice between "let these terrorists carry out plans that could endanger the government and/or lives using civilians as a shield" or "attack them with some risk to civilians", most governments will chose the later and very few will consider it a war crime when taking precautions or actions to mitigate the civilian risk.

> then my only question is when are ECOAS going to stand trial for all the people they murdered in cold blood, and all the Civilians they killed?

If we're going to split hairs that's two questions, not one and I don't believe they murdered any civilians since every civilian ECOAS shot attacked them first i.e. Gael and Cardias, and the rest were known terrorists i.e The Sleeves. Civilians were caught in the crossfire of Londo Bell pilots defending themselves from a Sleeves pilot, but that is not a war crime. No-one killed any people in cold blood.
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>>19270095
>We don't even see anyone killed by it.
Which doesn't negate the possibility that someone could have died.

F91 and NT showed us the horror of just using your weapon on a colony and the collateral damage that it causes to people nearby.
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>>19270286
>They didn't; The Sleeves were the ones who started attacking them. We even see Marida ask Gilboa if he's ordered her to attack inside a colony.
1. Technically, Londo Bell started it by firing on a civilian transport ship.

2. Londo Bell already violated the airspace, and Neutrality of Industrial 7 with this Black Ops Mission.
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>>19269362
>Wut? Monsha and everyone on the Albion, minus Synapse, were assigned to the Alexandria-class Al Giza. Which was the 2nd ship of the class.
Monsha was lucky the Titans were formed. If they weren't, his career would be over in the General EFSF. They would take one look at his service record and go "NOPE". And he would probably get a shit posting, and eventually discharged from the military.

And the Federation's military benefits are pretty shitty. Bright is an Admiral/Fleet Commander of the Entire Londo Bell Task Force. But his family lives in a small, and ratty apartment.
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>>19270388
why are you talking about all these hypotheticals anon? Whats presented in the animations of 0083 and Zeta provides enough proof that the Albion crew and pilots didn't take a negative hit to their careers after Operation Stardust.
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>>19270426
>Whats presented in the animations of 0083 and Zeta provides enough proof that the Albion crew and pilots didn't take a negative hit to their careers after Operation Stardust.
Grammatical errors. English unclear. Re-state your question after correcting these problems.
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>>19270322

Which is why I said we "don't see anyone die", not that "no-one died". If the show didn't give us any information on it or previous examples to judge on though, we can't reasonably assume there was a high body count from it however. F91 and NT established how much damage fighting in the civilian portion of a colony can cause, but not that destroying a dock gate kills lots of people, for instance. There is also no reason to assume lots of people would be in that area, given it's purpose.

>>19270350

> 1. Technically, Londo Bell started it by firing on a civilian transport ship.

The Garencieres? It's not a civilian ship, since the crew are part of a terrorist cell. That entire sortie was also obviously in a different day and different place, and the Sleeves were not expecting Londo Bell at Industrial 7. Or at least, they weren't aware of them until the Geara Zulu pilot spotted a ReZel and freaked out, causing him to attack them. Saying that Londo Bell shot first because of something that happened somewhere and somewhen else is silly, and you might as well say the Federation shot first by oppressing Spacenoids and travel back the entire chain of causality. Not that it can't go back even further, frankly.

> 2. Londo Bell already violated the airspace, and Neutrality of Industrial 7 with this Black Ops Mission.

Industrial 7 is located in Side 5, and is Federation territory; not neutral. You can't violate your own airspace.
>>
>>19270455
>Industrial 7 is located in Side 5, and is Federation territory; not neutral. You can't violate your own airspace.

The colony itself is privately owned, and managed by Anaheim Electronics. The Federation isn't "legally" allowed to go in guns blazing and not caring. Remember that even Commander Bright ran into legal trouble with his authority during CCA, and had strict limits on what he could do to an uncooperative Colony. Stop defending murderers, and just admit that Londo Bell/ECOAs murdered people in a black ops mission gone horribly bad.
>>
>>19270455
>we can't reasonably assume there was a high body count from it
You are missing the point. We aren't arguing that the body count was "high". We are stating Londo Bell killed people by firing their ships main cannon. Even a Colony Dock has personnel, technicians, and people who operate the dockyard. It isn't some empty space. We've seen this in other Gundam Anime. People floating around in space suits doing work, doing maintenance and repairs on ships, etc. It's probably one of the busiest areas of the Colony depending on traffic. And considering this was a sneak attack with no warning from the Federation, any one in general area of the Colony dockyard probably got hit, died, or suffered massive casualties from shrapnel and exploding debris.

A colony gate isn't designed to withstand a mega particle cannon attack either. And considering how easily the battery powered funnels (with the tiny beams) of the Kyshatriya penetrated the gate, we can be darn sure that a large turret twin barrelled mega particle cannon powered by a military ships nuclear reactor penetrated and did a ton of damage.
>>
>>19269170
My only problem with 0083 is that Kou never gets punished for repeatedly disobeying orders and wrecking the Gundam twice.
>>
>>19270540
Didn't he spend six months in prison until all information about the incident was hidden?
>>
>>19270443
>Being a bitch after being told facts
Good job
>>
>>19270548
I am not that anon but even I do not know what you are asking. Your question is poorly worded.
>>
>>19270546
>Didn't he spend six months in prison until all information about the incident was hidden?
That was a Federation court punishing him afterwards. I meant while he was serving on the Albion. No one disciplined him for disobeying orders, stealing the Gundam, wrecking the Gundam, etc.
>>
>>19270464

> The colony itself is privately owned, and managed by Anaheim Electronics.

And? It's still Federation territory. Your house doesn't become sovereign territory just because you own it, or even the land it's built on in some cases.

> The Federation isn't "legally" allowed to go in guns blazing and not caring.

They absolutely are legally allowed to enter if they think there is something illegal going on in their territory, and to defend themselves or attack known terrorists while there. Which is what happened.

> Commander Bright ran into legal trouble with his authority during CCA

He ran into trouble because Adaneur Paraya, the vice president of the Federation, explicitly limited what he could do; not because he couldn't act within Federation territory by default. Not that Sweetwater or Axis were Federation territory after the negotiations at Londenion.

> Stop defending murderers, and just admit that Londo Bell/ECOAs murdered people in a black ops mission gone horribly bad.

Of course people died. Just because civilians were killed doesn't make their actions a war crime though. Which is what was being debated (i.e. did ECOAS and/or Londo Bell commit war crimes). Londo Bell units were acting to stop terrorists using civilians as a shield (Marida explicitly says as much), and defending themselves when attacked, which is not a war crime. Meanwhile, ECOAS were attacking known terrorists, and defending themselves against civilians that attacked them. Which, again, not a war crime. Nor did the Federation punch holes in the colony wall, gun down innocent civilians in cold blood or pretty much a=any of the other claptrap >>19269386 stated, for that matter. Fighting inside a colony is about the only assertion that's correct, and even that is contextualized as defence and attacking actual terrorists, depending on which group is in question. Which, again, much different to the Titans.
>>
>>19270480

> We aren't arguing that the body count was "high"

Maybe you aren't, but >>19269394 was (i.e. "Londo Bell blew holes in the colony, killing thousands). That aside though, we're arguing whether it's a war crime or not and not the actual body count. Which, attacking infrastructure to help soldiers under fire isn't, even if there is a risk to civilians.

> It's probably one of the bu siest areas of the colony

In specific colonies with lots of ship traffic, sure. Industrial 7 doesn't have lots of ship traffic though, at least not when we see it. So it's unlikely to be the busiest area of the colony.

> A colony gate isn't designed to withstand a mega particle cannon attack either.

The colony cap barely looks any different after the attack, and we're never shown extensive damage inside the docks from the attack either despite Banagher, Micott etc. being in the docks. I would assume the gunner adjusted the strength and timing of the the shot as well as the precision, to maximize impact to their actual target and not cause widespread damage every behind and around it. Maybe I'm in the minority on that though.
>>
>>19270581
>stealing the Gundam
He did that to stop Gato
>wrecking the Gundam
Not really his fault, might as well throw Amuro in the brig after the OYW for wrecking the Gundam then
I just chalk it up to "they're in a tense situation and we need whoever we have to stop Gato" so they didn't have a choice but to trust Kou since the only other pilot candidate (Monsha) couldn't do better
>>
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>>19269170
Post your Moshas.
>>
>>19269170
oh hey
its this thread
again
>>
>>19269490
so what does Kelly do??? he surrenders to the Federation?
>>
>>19269251
>Moira
literally vomit inducing
>>
>>19271161
kinda annoyed they made Moira a big ugly woman

wtf, she should have been a hot mechanic girl
>>
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>>19271150
It should be sticked.
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>>19269182
>Which makes it all the funnier than some people put him on a pedestal as the "manliest" character or something.

People do this because its fucking hilarious.
>>
>>19271167
>>19271161
low test
>>
for anyone that wants to know, Monsha survived the Gryps War and the Neo Zeon Wars and ended up in Mars. He is crippled though and walks with a stick. All he does is drink but at least he hangs out with the ReZeon girls
>>
>Monsha is 28 years old
Dude is aging like Ramba Ral
>>
>>19271204
Hell, I thought he was about 40-50 yo. How old are the rest of their company of OYW veterans?
>>
>>19271161
Nigga you gay
>>
>>19271210
South Burning - 39
Chap Adel - 24
Alpha A. Bate - 28
>>
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>>19271161
>>19271167
Faggots
>>
>>19271192
Then he defects from ReZeon to Mars Zeon because he's a two bit scumbag
>>
>>19271220
>Alpha A. Bate
you have to be kidding, right?
>>
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>>19271192
Are you the creator of this submission?
>>
>>19270161
yeah and it even managed to fuck up the little things like introducing the characters.
>>
>>19269219
Keith and Burning. I spent awhile in the Army as a combat medic and I find burning to be the best representation of soldier in all the Gundams I've watched. Keith is just a cool dude who tricked us all in the beginning into thinking he was gonna be a chumped.
>>
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>>19271312
>>
>>19271281
A glorious continuation of Tomino's char names
>>
>>19271332
This, frankly the only reason Burning dealt with Monsha's crap is time working together and being decent at ms combat.
>>
>>19269170
episode 4, kou, keith and monsha were fighting zeek grunts and I thought they would have monsha get over the fact kou was pilots the gundam but instead for the rest of the series he was a fucking asshole retard it’s like he refused to develop as a character, he actually got me to hate kou because kou would just get shit talked and he would never stand up for himself, his problem is that 0083 is shit
>>
>>19272296
>develop as a character
>>
>>19269170
I think he only had a problem with Kou. And rightfully so since Kou had no experience, was a fresh graduate, but somehow got assigned the Gundam.

Monsha has tons of zeek kills to his name since he fought in the one year war.
>>
>>19269367
>Kou's scores and performance both apparently beat his out.
We both know that's crap. Kou was bangin' Nina behind the scenes. And Nina didn't like Monsha. Everyone on Albion knew Kou and Nina were bangin. Higher score my ass. "Better test scores" = Kou is my baby daddy.
>>
>>19272414

So his performance in bed was good enough to make Nina ignore Monsha's performance? Gotcha.
>>
The Titans did nothing wrong.
0083 showed they were a necessary.
>>
>>19271122
>>
>>19271204
>>19271210
Everyone in 0083 looks 20 years older than they actually are because too many face lines
>>
>>19272445
In anime:

Age 12 to 18 and below looks like 20 year old.

Age 20 to 25 looks like a mature person in their 30s.

25+ is old man/old milf territory
>>
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>>19272434
Post your rare monshas.
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>>19272445
No they look like men at the proper age before they started putting estrogen in the water supply
>>
>>19272414
Kou dick game so good he got a Gundam
>>
>>19269364
But anon, John McCain *did* get away with precisely from that kind of stunt thanks to the influence of his daddy. I'm not familiar enough with 0083 to tell, but did Monsha have similar contacts in his network?
>>
>>19272998
no mention.
>>
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>>19269219
Kelly Layzner was cool
>>
>>19273434

LONELY WAY!
>>
>>19272423
>0083 showed they were a necessary.
it showed why the Federation's general army structure is retarded all the way till Victory. A bunch of officers would easily backstab another just for power.
>>
>>19273434
In the anime yes.

In the manga, he became a simp and a traitor to Zeon. He betrayed Gato.
>>
>>19269305
>>19269490
What the fuck. Didn't know you could do worse than the OVA's plot.
>>
>>19269319
>I actually like Nina, early Nina.
I think basically everyone likes her at the start. She’d be one of the most popular girls in the whole franchise if it werent for that shit near the end.
>>
>>19269367
I don't get it. How can Kou have "higher scores" and performance if he constantly gets his ass beat by Lieutenant Burning, Gato, and Monsha? Seems like a cop out for me.
>>
>>19273497
KONO BOKU NO
>>
>>19269411

That isn't Yazan. That's Captain "Uncle Snake" Vasuki.
>>
>>19269219
Burning is cool but he lets Monsha get away with way too much shit. Keith is fine but he's never around when it matters.
>>
>>19269170
I had some memory of him having redeeming qualities and a affable side. But I watched this show again and he's just a strawman for a shithead. He continues to try and act like hot shit even after Kou humiliates him on terms HE created. And he tries to act like a playboy but is just eternally denied pussy.
>>
>>19269305
The issue is the OVA never really makes it seem like there's any reason he should be piloting anything expensive. He just seems to assume he's up to bat but only seems to fail when given any focus. His two buddies seemed to have a better track record than him.
>>
>>19269305
>>19270540
I dunno if you guys just haven't seen the OVA in a while but it's made pretty clear that the combat data and performance testing on the GP-01 series was considered valuable enough to make up for cost of repairs. Anaheim clearly saw the big picture on that one.
>>
>>19269170
>What the fuck is his problem?

you
>>
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>>19269305
Monsha was never designated the GP03's pilot in the 0083 Rebellion manga. No one was designated the pilot. Monsha just got into the machine during the chaos, and then was ejected due to some weird reasoning that the current core fighter plugged into the GP03 was incompatible and they needed to fit another one. Then Kou got in it after it finished docking.
>>
>>19271204
>>19271210
>>19271220
Low G environments and Minovsky particle exposure
>>
>>19269170
>tfw you realize he was only 27 years old
>he's one year younger than me
>>
>>19269292
This is fake, when it happened ?
>>
>>19269319
fucking worthless bitch
>>
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>>19279646
Miss Cima when she was young, gonna post this here
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>>19279649
Ah yes, before the scat happened.
>>
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>>19279649
>>
>>19279632

It's an Advance of Zeta thing, I think. I've seen a page of him posted at least once or twice, so it's in the archive if you go looking.
>>
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>>19279656
>>
>>19269292
A lot of Titans members ended up joining Neo Zeon, it was either get charged with being a war criminal by a pissed off Federation that you just failed to coup, live the rest of your life in 3rd world poverty in a backwater colony, or join the faction that doesn't know or really care about your past and just wants soldiers to fill their ranks.
>>
>>19269716
Monsha apologist detected.

Being called out hurts, huh?
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>>19277016
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>>19280522
>>
are people just forgetting that after Burning's death Bates was give a 1 rank promotion and MS Squad leader. Capt. Synapse passes over Monsha for that promotion. So in the eyes of the ship's captain, Bates was the better pilot out of the Immortal 4th team survivors.
>>
>>19279649
In the small speech bubble the old guy is saying “but those are all forgeries made with CG”
>>
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>>19279656
>>19279676
>>19279649
I'M GONNA DO IT
I'M GONNA GO INTO AI DUNGEON AGAIN AND SAVE HER LIFE WITHOUT MAKING IT SEEM LIKE AN ASSPULL
>>
>>19280537
>are people just forgetting that after Burning's death Bates was give a 1 rank promotion and MS Squad leader. Capt. Synapse passes over Monsha for that promotion. So in the eyes of the ship's captain, Bates was the better pilot out of the Immortal 4th team survivors.

I think the Captain just likes Bates more, and he's made some questionable decisions too. Monsha is the only guy who was not shot down or damaged at all in the anime. Bates got shot down in the Africa episode but survived. Monsha is still better.
>>
>>19281115

Or luckier. Or he faced worse enemies. Or just wasn't considered significant enough to be worth taking out. There are multiple other reasons why one pilot might get shot down but not another that have nothing to do with relative skill.
>>
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>>19281115
>Monsha is the only guy who was not shot down or damaged at all in the anime.
>Monsha is still better
Now I know you're just a shitposting faggot. A Dra-C flies into Monsha's GM and wrecks it in episode 12:
https://youtu.be/FJb5Nh8SNiE?t=1201
>>
>>19281139
That was a suicide charge by a crazy pilot. That's not getting shot down. Bates got legit shot down (with a gun) by a Zeon pilot in Africa.
>>
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>>19281115
>Monsha is the only guy who was not shot down or damaged at all in the anime.
>damaged at all in the anime.
>damaged at all
>DAMAGED
>>19281180
>moving the goal post
oh, you're a retarded faggot. Glad to know that quick off rip. Thanks for letting us know about your autism anon.
>>
>>19281188
Is your autism rage leading somewhere? Monsha is still a better pilot than Bates. Bates got shot down by Zeon. Monsha didn't. Bates getting the promotion was probably due to other factors beyond piloting.
>>
>>19281230

Or his superior recognized that the criteria you're using is kind of stupid, and based his decision on who was a better pilot and/or leader on more than "have they gotten shot down?".
>>
>>19281126
>Or luckier.

Luck is also a skill anon.

Like Literally. Some Gundam games even list "Luck" as part of your skill tree for pilots.
>>
>>19281241
>Luck is also a skill anon
Like the fabled Bryan Cranston once said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJkeX2pN2t8
>>
>>19281236
>Or his superior recognized that the criteria you're using is kind of stupid, and based his decision on who was a better pilot and/or leader on more than "have they gotten shot down?".
Which leads back to my original statement of:

>>19281115
>I think the Captain just likes Bates more, and he's made some questionable decisions too.

Monsha is fully capable of leading a team.
>>
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>>19281230
>Now type all that out without crying
>>
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>>19281250
>Monsha is fully capable of leading a team.
>Leads MS team into an ambush in Africa.
>Gets reprimanded over comms for his stupidity
Keep digging yourself deeper in that hole dumbass
>>
>>19281250

Those two statements are not synonymous. Nor does either directly imply your conclusion. Monsha would be a terrible leader, because he's basically all ego and would only care about himself while neglecting anyone under him and would be swayed by even the slightest flattery going off his actions and reactions in the show. He'd also let emotions and anger guide his actions, rather than really considering a situation.
>>
I loved Monsha's character. He started off as a funny fool. But through the series he is subtlety developed hi s character. He even grows a fondness for Kou and Keith. Especially for Keith when Cima in her Gelgoog heads straight for Keith and Monsha immediately pursues to help him.
>>
>>19273434
>dumb zeekshit who managed to not an hero
>has a good job and qt gf
>throws it all away to an hero for zeon
>doesn’t even accomplish anything when he does, just wastes everyone’s time
>>
>>19281188
You gotta admit that Monsha did go a long time without taking damage. He outlasted all his other teammates including Kou.
>>
>>19281323
>Fa is the only pilot of the Argama to survive the Gryps War
>She should be promoted to MS squad leader
You see where this is going anon. Outlasting teammates is no feat in itself. Even Kai notes that he's happy that he's a natural coward and survived for so long in the 3rd film.
>>
>>19281329
If Zeta followed any sense of logic at all, then Fa would have been a battle hardened veteran with tons of mobile suit experience by the end of the Gryps War. So yes, she should be promoted to MS squad leader.

Yet somehow a junk yard teenager (Judau) who has no mobile suit experience AT ALL is better than her, and everyone else on the Argama.
>>
>>19281337
>Fa would have been a battle hardened veteran with tons of mobile suit experience
I just think its crazy that every extra MS launched from the Argama throughout the whole show and all the extra pilots they picked up from the earth operation or any surviving MS pilots from the Raddish didn't survive the last battle. Seeing that most, if not all of them, were former military personnel with combat history.
Speaking of Operation Maelstrom: How many AUEG ships participated in that final battle and how many of those survived? Because in the last episode after seeing Axis forces making their way deeper in the earth sphere we only see the Argama and maybe on or two salamis ships.
>>
>>19281362
The show is never clear on how big the AEUG fleet is and the final episodes actually make this worse. Going by what we see on screen, they have at least 4 ships right before the final fight, and probably had more join in later. During the final episode, we see many green dots in what I assume is suppose to represent the AEUG fleet on a screen before the colony laser fired (unknown if this was a mix of ships and MS, but I assume going by the red dots that this was meant to be ships). The fact they all got destroyed AFTER they took out the Titans fleet is weird.
>>
>>19271161
Let me reach you a lesson in life:
YOUR DICK HAS NO EYES. Stop being such a baby about it, shut up, and jam it in
>>
>>19281323

On the other hand, I don't gotta admit that means much. Cause it don't. It doesn't indicate skill on it's own; only luck. Which is not trainable in real life, or in the fiction that Gundam plays despite >>19281241 and >>19281249's posts.

>>19281337

Experience alone is not enough enough qualification to make you a leader, unless times are desperate and/or your commanding officer is a conservative moron (conservative as in makes safe choices, not conservative as in political leaning), because a good leader is not just someone who lived a long time and needs to be capable of inspiring people to action, balancing the needs of the team against the needs of greater whole they are part of, a representative of the team to the outside system as well as a disciplinarian within the team, making calls on the fly when pressure is on etc. etc. I can't remember Fa well enough to comment on her as a leader, but Monsha would be an awful leader because he only really cares about himself, and ends up toadying up to anyone that offers even the faintest glimmer of hope while letting his personal feelings cloud his judgement of anyone who doesn't give him what he wants.

AEUG were desperate following the end of Zeta, but it wouldn't matter in Fa's case, since she just wanted to leave with Kamille anyway. So Judau or someone new would have to be ringleader regardless.

>>19281429

Unless you are blind or have no standards, then it absolutely does, because your penis is only part of an interconnected system responsible for arousal. If you don't find someone sexually arousing then any sex you attempt will be pushing rope, and have little to no passion in it.
>>
>>19269382
>>19269386
>Monshacuck is a zeon apologist
We've come full circle.
>>
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>>19281481
>So Judau or someone new would have to be ringleader regardless.
Different anon, then why isn't Roux MS team leader? She's an actual AEUG commissioned pilot.
>>
>>19281495

I would venture that it's at least partially because the Gundam team in ZZ are mostly a close knit group of friends, and the desperation of AEUG along with the small size of the remaining crew allows the kids that are the only thing holding AEUG up any more to change how AEUG acts and create a more informal atmosphere throughout the ship. Roux isn't team leader because there is no team leader for the most part. Judau is the informal leader of his friends because of his personal charisma, and they continue to look to him once they start fighting as part of AEUG but they do so not because he's a formally designated leader and instead do so because he's the friend they've always known as the one in charge. Bright, Roux etc. adopt that attitude, rather than Judau and his friends adapting to a more military nature.
>>
>>19281529
>Bright, Roux etc. adopt that attitude, rather than Judau and his friends adapting to a more military nature.
Ryu kind of humored this notion in 0079, but Bright didn't with Amuro or Kai. But even when the Gundam Team links up with Karaba forces or other AEUG forces, the other forces follow their lead. One example is when the Gundam Team linked up with those Karaba/AEUG forces to attack Dakar or when they defended Dublin.
>>
>>19281542

Ryu didn't really humor that exact notion in 0079, because Amuro wasn't a particularly charismatic youth and Fraw was the only person on the crew all that familiar with or deferential to him. Hayato seemed to know Amuro, but not like him. What Ryu was doing was defending Amuro's individualism, and more civilian viewpoint since he was still just a press-ganged citizen for all the time Ryu knew him. He also kind of had to do so, because Bright was being a cunt to Amuro from day one for no real reason because Amuro was a lynchpin of the White Base's defence and he had no idea how to lead someone so central to the group. Hayato was a moderating influence on both, and it's only when Ryu dies that the two of them start to compromise and repair their relationship, with Amuro becoming more deferential and listening to Bright more while Bright stopped being unnecessarily harsh to Amuro and started treating him more the way he did anyone else.
>>
>>19269219
Cima, Gato, Keith, Burning, Synapse and Mora are all great.
>>
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>>19269170
All Monsha really needed was a Puru clone and he wouldn't be insufferable.
>>
>>19283075
>Gryps War Loser
>Double Traitor
>Partially Blind
>Also a Cripple
faggots actually like and look up to this character?
>>
>>19283197
>Double Traitor
The entire Albion crew are traitors. What's your point? They stole GP03 against orders, held officers at gun point, and refused orders to stand down and retreat. Your argument is weak.

And Kou was a loser who should have shot Nina in the head to stop the colony drop. Monsha may be a funny womanizer, but when the chips are down, Monsha would have put a bullet in Nina's skull. You know this. Monsha wouldn't have cried about it like Kou and run away like a simp without doing anything.
>>
>>19283423
> implying we didn't all cheer when he got blasted in Shadows of Zeon
>>
>>19283197
He's better than Kou Uraki or Nina. That's for sure.
>>
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>>19283423

> Monsha may be a funny

Debatable.

> Monsha wouldn't have cried about [killing Nina] like Kou and run away like a simp

Monsha is absolutely a simp, and would have cried like a bitch about killing Nina; if he even did it at all. I'd put good odds on him opting out, and taking advantage of any guilt she is feeling to get his way by offering protection or asking her to run away with him or something. That aside, he has no real convictions and won't stand up for his actions when he does do things if a woman he has a crush on is around. Not only will he not stand by his actions; he'll whimper like a child, and try lamely to justify them if said woman doesn't like them.
>>
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>>19283867
>>
>>19283867
>>19283867
>I'd put good odds on him opting out
Nah, I'm fairly certain that, after the initial shock of Nina being a traitor, he would have turned cold blooded and put her down. Monsha is somewhat of a goofball among allies. But against enemies he's pretty heartless. If you are Zeon, then he won't be so kind.
>>
>>19281329
>>19281337
>>19281362
>>19281414
This what Fa SHOULD have been like by the end of the Gryps War. A badass experienced pilot. Or at the very least, a solid competent pilot.
>>
>>19284580
Unrelated to the other entire conversation concerning Fa, at the end of the war she is a competent pilot. She's no ace but she's probably good enough to hold her own against average pilots. ZZ is when they made her completely incompetent, which is sadly the reason she's so terrible in games.

Hell, even earlier in the show she has a dogfight with Yazan, and she actually managed to evade him for a good bit. Granted, she was running away the entire time, but that's still impressive going by how Katz did the one time he was running from Yazan and he's normally slightly better than her.
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>>19284652
> but that's still impressive going by how Katz did the one time he was running from Yazan

Katz failed pilot school and it showed.



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