Why were they so weak compared to every other baddie MS? Apparently you see over 400 of them destroyed over the course of the series, which is more than all the UC series combined until Unicorn
>>19011500because there main opposition were other leo tier ms and vehichles
Context matters, OP. The Gundams of Wing are one-suit armies. They're nearly indestructible, and are shown to tank some pretty impressive barrages. They were designed to take over the Earth/destroy OZ without guaranteed supporter back up, with the exception of Quatre's crew.Comparatively speaking, even the Mobile Armors of UC needed an army or a fleet behind them to provide support and backup. Gundams in UC can be very powerful, but generally speaking they aren't capable of taking on an entire well-defended military installation on their lonesome.
Not much weaker than Zakus going up against the Gundam. Gundam would've had a kill count in that range if the Zeon's weren't running out of Zakus.
Because leos are actually pretty decent grunts, but they're fighting super robots.
>>19011500I'm context i wonder how they compared to the 00 suits from the good season.
>>19011500They were just like any other machine made to fight named characters, expendable and numerous, they just blew up more spectacularly than most when they ate shit so it stuck in the minds of most people that they were made out of aluminum foil packed with tinder soaked in kerosene. I'd argue that Windams should get the rep that Leos have, those things were just made to take it up the ass.
>>19011545Honestly probably not even better than any of the three factions
>>19011500Because Wing is shit
>>19011670Only sensible post ITT.Wing sucks.
>>19011500It's entirely plot armor and stock footage. Whenever a named character gets into a Leo, suddenly it handles punishment just fine and if anything actually does a lot better even against Gundams than any other main grunt suit would.
>>19011500That's why the Trowas thought they could take over Earth after a colony drop & sent in 5 Gundams to mop up.
>>19011500Because they're 20 years old and fighting suits they can't even damage once the Gundams arrive.Drop Leos into another series and they mop up nearly everything.
>>19011500Because they weren't made out of Nintendium.Gundamiun, I mean.
>>19011535More Doms and Rick Doms die on screen in MSG than Zakus
>>19011705>than any other main grunt suit wouldI don't know about that, there are main grunts that beat main characters in their main suits
>>19011523>They're nearly indestructibleWing takes damage from the dobergun in episode 1 that puts it out of commission for a while.
>>19012163Sad that GNXs were brought back down to power ranger putty level after the timeskip in favor of the ugly shit the Innovators were piloting
>>19011500Its important to put things into perspective here, and unfortunately that perspective can only be reached through background materials.1. The Tallgeese was created in AC 175, 20 years before the start of Wing. The Tallgeese's fighting ability is comparable to late-UC tech. Which is just ridiculous.2. The Romefeller Foundation decided to be a bunch of cheapskates and decided to downgrade the massproduction version to comparable to the Hizack. 3. By the time the Gundams arrived in AC 195 (20 years later) the Leo is terribly outdated, and are forced to fight MS that are comparable to late UC technology. 4. That said, the Leo's operating system was constantly upgraded in those 20 years, so much so that when they transferred the same exact system unto Taurus and Serpents they started kicking ass.5. Case in point: the Leo IV Greif. And upgraded Leo meant to emulate the Tallgeese by incorporating technology from the Aries and Tragos. And they succeed.6. Finally, Gundam Wing has one of the most oddest tech trees in Gundam. For example, they have the largest battleships in the franchise. The Grand Chariot is over a kilometer long, and unlike the comparable Gondwana from SEED, is massproduced. The fact it exists suggests that space territory is far larger than most other AU, we just never see them.>>19011545They'd slaughter 00 S1 grunts with ease. Nuclear Reactors are an amazing. Plus 20 years of software upgrades means the the pilot is only limited by his machine. Transfer that cockpit into a Taurus and you'd have something that can bitch slap Celestial Being if they didn't have their Trans-Am to save them.
>>19011705It's been a while since I watched Wing, but I remember scenes where tracers fly around and Leos just combust, especially when Heavyarms is around, and it's been over ten years but IIRC there's that scene where Treize defects during the mobile doll test and his Leo is eating up ammo from the mobile doll Leos to no effect while he's popping them left and right, he's not even attempting to dodge their fire either.
>>19012198Romefeller didn't cheap out... that much.The Tallgeese was a fucking beast that would kill its pilot if it wasn't trained enough. And not everyone in OZ is friggin Zechs.That said, it is as you said, the leo is still a 20 year old machine with software updates. its that ATM machine that still works on that gas station. IT WORKS. And it works wonders, its easy to learn to pilot, it serves as a point to upgrade to other machines and its versatile enough to do most ground work.and as >>19012198 said. they reached a point where the only actual limitation is the pilot skill, and see in Endless Waltz how Heero and Duo managed friggin Space Leos!
>>19011705>Whenever a named character gets into a Leo, suddenly it handles punishment just fine and if anything actually does a lot better even against Gundamseven I noticed this on Toonami when I was 11 years old and my headcanon was commanders got better versions
>>19011500That's primarily because they recycle the same footage of them blowing up an absurd amount of times. If they had more variation in the grunts they wouldn't be able to do that.
>>19012198>That said, the Leo's operating system was constantly upgraded in those 20 years, so much so that when they transferred the same exact system unto Taurus and Serpents they started kicking ass.Where is it said they have the same OS? I don't doubt that they have similar software because it's all OZ hardware, but things like the OS were never brought up in the show nor side material. >The Grand Chariot is over a kilometer long, and unlike the comparable Gondwana from SEED, is massproducedI don't think that's true. Where does it say it's mass produced? We never saw OZ field any other warships except for small carrier spaceplanes.>The fact it exists suggests that space territory is far larger than most other AU, we just never see them.As far as I know, Endless Waltz mentions Mars and of course, Frozen Teardrop shows human society on Mars. There are no mentions of any other planets though.
>>19013772The Taurus and Leo can't have the exact same OS. Otherwise the Leo could be a mobile doll already but they had to do wired tests like >>19012209 says
Leos are real robots fighting super robots. Wing's Gundams are so OP the only surefire way to waste them is to throw them into the fucking sun
>>19013797Wing Gundams are still a far cry from super robot, they're still shown getting messed up from fights when the enemy can bring some proper firepower to bear. Even Amuro was wading through Zeon forces earlier on through the sheer power and durability of the Gundam because Zeon didn't have a hard answer to it until later on.
>>19012198>They'd slaughter 00 S1 grunts with ease. Nuclear Reactors are an amazing. Plus 20 years of software upgrades means the the pilot is only limited by his machine. Transfer that cockpit into a Taurus and you'd have something that can bitch slap Celestial Being if they didn't have their Trans-Am to save them.Which is why Leos are always shit tier when put up against other grunts like in cross rays right?
>>19014457Not that guy, but video games are kind of a poor metric to go with considering they tend to be balanced around gameplay mechanics. That said, I'm not of the belief that Leos are this hidden gem of power and potential, they're as effective as plot demands, especially when a named character is piloting them, like any other MS.
>>19014472It was an example of how the only people who seem to think Leos and Taurus are some godlike machine that can even take out Celestial Beings Gundams even top S1 Grunts are just people on this board, in any media they're treated as a joke.That being said, the 20 years of software upgrades is literally said to not do anything but minor upgrades
What is the worst OZ grunt death? I remember one time a Virgo got punched in the camera by an Aires and knocked onto the ground then exploded 2 seconds later. Can any Leo deaths top that? @2:20https://youtu.be/sZFfFCfUsP8
>>19015094>2:40Oh come on, that was a clean hit to the torso from the shoulder cannons and all it did was damage the outer shell.
>>19012198>They'd slaughter 00 S1 grunts with ease. Nuclear Reactors are an amazing. Plus 20 years of software upgrades means the the pilot is only limited by his machine. Transfer that cockpit into a Taurus and you'd have something that can bitch slap Celestial Being if they didn't have their Trans-Am to save them.You're retarded, the overflag with limiters removed is comparable the Tallgeese in Gs experienced by the pilot and it's just a tuned up flag.
>>19015094The funniest part is the Virgos are made of Gundanium
>>19015281who's the blue guy?
>>19015450That's a Tau from 40k. The race that uses robot battlesuits.
>>19011705>Heero holding off Wufei in the Altron Custom with just a space-type Leo
>>19012198>he Romefeller Foundation decided to be a bunch of cheapskates and decided to downgrade the massproduction version to comparable to the Hizack.Is it really cheaping out when the protoype is so TOO MUCH HIGH POWER MAN that it induces heart attacks in the pilot?
>>19012163>>19012170To be fair, CB learned after their loss in S1 that their GN Particle Control and Transfer System wasn't as efficient as the Thrones or the GN-Xs, which is why they switch to an integrated system copied from Plutone (itself sealed because back then, the control system wasn't perfected and it caused injury to Chall and killed two other Meisters; Feldt's parents) and refined with Throne data, and ditched the ribbon cables.Then on the Federation side, the original GN-Xs were considered too much of a wild horse for regular pilots, and thus they toned down the designs with reduced thrusters (toning down that x-shaped thruster system) and more modularity, which eventually leads into the GN-X variants that have sword, shield, or cannon shoulder attachments.The Innovades of course, having access to most tech from both sides, combine it all in their Gadalaza/Garozzo/Gaddess units.It's not until the Movie that GN-XIV's are legitimately on par with Gundams again.
>>19015580It's Wufei though, nobody wants to see him win because he fucking sucks.
>>19015281>go from reasonably sized mecha where they're just effective force multipliers, to fuckoff powerful one-mech-army monsters that could melt a battalion's worth of Imperial armor all by themselvesI think the Tau are fine for mechs.
>>19011500Because Wing isn't an actual mecha anime. It's a Seinen that happens to have mecha. Any time a major character is in a mech, they're literally invincible to anything that isn't another major character. Even when they take damage, it's superficial. There's plenty of cases of a character getting in a leo and tanking shots that instantly destroy enemy leos
>>19014457I'm sorry, Cross Rays is canon? >>19014547Reasons why Leo can beat 00 S1 grunts:1. Nuclear Power.2. A variety of mission packs that would allow them to perform well in any environment.3. Beam weapons.4. Zerg rush. Reasons why Taurus would bitch slap S1 Celestial Being without Trans-Am.1. Nuclear Power.2. They are not outdated and can keep up with Gundams.3. Beam weapons.4. Zerg rush. The Taurus are pretty much the GN-X of Wing. And just like the GN-X, they'd probably defeat Celestial Being if CB didn't have Trans-Am. Really, 00 S1 is pretty bad in that almost every other faction from every other Gundam title can beat them with ease. Only AGE Gen 1 and 0079 Gundam is weaker. Celestial Being is only effective because of extenuating circumstances.
>>19016196I've never seen someone so delusional>Nuclear powerIsn't better than GN Drives>Variety of mission packsAll 00 grunts are either capable of literally the same thing(in some cases, better) or are already able to perform well in any enviroment>Beam WeaponsGN-X has better beams and good luck hitting Flags and Enacts>Zerg rush>what is operation gundam captureOn top of that, they have better leaders, pilots and tacticians too. At least they know how to fucking dodgeAs for the latter point, Taurus wouldn't even beat Virtue and Kyrios combo.
>>19016206Taurus is faster than the Virture and Kyrios.
>>19015375>GundaniumDoesn't matter, doesn't have a named character in it, and functionally can't, so it may as well be made out of toilet paper.Now that I think about it, it explains >>19015094>>19015148For some reason, I never thought that the green Aries had an important character inside.
>>19016225The Taurus isn't even faster than the Shenlong. Tallgeese 3 = Tallgeese 2 = Tallgeese 1 > Shenlong. Tallgeese 3 is capable of 11Gs empty, maybe like 5 or 6Gs loaded. Overflag is capable of 12Gs and it's an elite mook.
>>19016225>VirtueVirtue is designed to take out all other Gundams anon, even without the veda link. They can't hurt Virtue and they won't have an answer to it beam spamming the fuck out of them, it wouldn't even matter even if they were faster>KyriosKyrios has enough thrust to push a section of a space station, nevermind that with its various attachments it isn't even really a fair fight for the Taurus
>>19016263This is all wrong. Tallgeese 1 is 15G. Taurus is 8G. Only Graham's Custom Flag has 12G of acceleration. The Overflag doesn't.
>>19016274Tallgeese's pilot experiences 15G, that's not the same as the Tallgeese linearly accelerating at 15G. We have official stats for the Tallgeese 3 which is identical to the Tallgeese 1 except they use different guns. Its empty weight is like 8.5 ton and its thrust is 95 ton. It's loaded weight is going to be close to double like late UC MS, only 5-6Gs max. 11G if it's bone dry.
>>19016286No, the Tallgeese accelerates to 15G. The MG confirms this.
>>19016263>Overflag is capable of 12Gs and it's an elite mook.That's got to be lateral acceleration while doing hard maneuvers and not straight line acceleration.
Can I just also mention that Taurus is at a distinct disadvantage anyways because it only has one gun as its standard equipment and Sanc Kingdom is apparently the only ones who decided to give them a melee weapon, I'm not seeing them having the fire power to take out the 00 Gundams+their support units like GN Arms much less high end grunt suits for 00
>>19016268>Virtue is designed to take out all other Gundams anon, even without the veda link.You're thinking of Exia, not Virtue. Exia was described as the trump unit in case GN tech was used against them.>They can't hurt Virtue and they won't have an answer to it beam spamming the fuck out of themBullshit, Virtue and other beam spammers can't even dominate in their own show. There have been other beam spammers and they literally do not dominate the battlefield even for a short period of time except for maybe the Alvatore and Regnant which are the bigass mobile armors. When Ali's Throne Zwei takes on Tieria's Virtue, he takes about 20 seconds to cripple the Virtue's GN field emitters before moving on, leaving the Virtue to get circled by a team of GN-X.
>>19016288Bullshit, the MG just has a synopsis of the story and says the acceleration is more than what Zechs expected which could still mean anything. Wing Zero should be even faster than the Tallgeese but Quatre never has an issue with it. The Tallgeese just has a faulty G damper because it's older. Also the Tallgeese has a higher weight than the Tallgeese 3 so it's probably slower.>>19016292It's about as vague as the 15G statement for the Tallgeese.
>powerlevel fags in gundam
>>19016295>Sanc Kingdom is apparently the only ones who decided to give them a melee weaponThey can elbow things. Shit's pointy.
>>19016295Even in their own universe, whenever they were deployed against strong enemies like the Gundams or the Tallgeese, Tauruses relied on sheer numbers.That said, OZ did occasionally deploy the Taurus with the special beam cannons, just not all the time. In MA mode the cannon is carried on the ventral side.
>>19016306Everyone's fighting for second place since Fukui said Awakened Unicorn literally has the power of the heaven and can go back in time to stop conflicts from even happening, and maybe even collapse space-time.
>>19016301>You're thinking of ExiaVirtue also has this role, that's also why Nadleeh was kept a secret. They're both anti betrayer suits>Virtue and other beam spammers can't even dominate in their own show.That's because the suits/pilots in their show are actually good, in your own example Ali is one of the best pilots in Gundam, literally AU Yazan and the GN-X pilots are all the best pilots from all three factions
>>19016305>Bullshit, the MG just has a synopsis of the story and says the acceleration is more than what Zechs expected which could still mean anything.It says 15G.
>>19016318It says the acceleration on the pilot is 15G, which isn't the same thing as "the Tallgeese can accelerate at 15G in a straight line".
>>19016329>It says the acceleration on the pilot is 15GNo it doesn't.
>>19016306It's almost always wing fags trying to hype their shit up when most wing grunts are always portrayed as a joke by literally everyone, at least when people say shit like the GM variants actually being good they don't have to pull stats out of their ass and just show evidence from one of the many works that show them as effective
>>19016338That's literally what it says. It's not 2010 anymore. Google translate's OCR works well and it's the least ambiguous translation ever. That entire line says when moving at high speeds, the maximum acceleration applied toi the passenger is 15G
>>19016347Which doesn't mean that the unit itself can't accelerate to 15G linear. Zechs' ribs don't break and he doesn't cough up blood, break his ribs and say he's about to die until he pushes the output to max moving in a straight line.
>>19016380>Which doesn't mean that the unit itself can't accelerate to 15G linearSure but it contradicts the Tallgeese 3 stats and as far as we know all three are near identical triplet units.
>>19016402Then the stats are wrong. If they keep giving us a concrete number and it doesn't add up to the stats, the number they're focused on it what they want people to pay attention to. Especially since there's no way 3 weighs the same as 1 and 2. It has a completely different weapon and a much bigger shield.
>>19012169>Wing takes damage from the dobergun in episode 1 that puts it out of commissionYou mean a botched orbital reentry and crashing into the ocean at terminal velocity while locked in an awkard embrace with Zech's Leo. It ruined some of its internal system and required repairs, the suit suffered no structural damage or lost any of its major systems. Its armor was also in perfect condition.For practical purpose, that's indestructible in an engagement with the weapons with OZ forces.>>19012163Haven't seen 00 since it's broadcast, but wasn't there a shot where a destroyed GN-X face reveal a Gundam's?
>>19016545That was the Regnant. Supposedly the Gadessa and Garazzo have Gundam faces under their helmets too, since the Innovades thought they were the real inheritors of Celestial Being.The GN-X was still practically a Gundam, though, since it was an improved version of the Throne Varanus, which was an improved version of the Gundam Thrones. They didn't have as many weapons as the Gundam Thrones, but the rest of the performance was basically the same.
>>19016312Still seems like a bitch compared to Turn-A's capabilities.
>>19016312>>19016680*shoots a Sekiha (Rock-breaking may as well imply it can break the geoid rock humans live on) Love Love (love is not a conflict) Tenkyoken (Heaven-shocking fist, literally already stronger than powers of Heaven, right in the name) that summons the manifestation of Kings of Hearts made of pure fighting energy (try to stop pure fighting energy with Moonlight Butterfly nanomachines or I-Fields lol, it's not some beam) right into your cockpit*heh nothing personnel, kid
>>19016710Move on with your kiddie shit, grown-ups are talking here.
>>19016545>You mean a botched orbital reentry and crashing into the ocean at terminal velocityNo, I mean once it exited re-entry into the upper atmosphere and Zech shoots it once with the dobergun and it descends with smoke trailing behind it. Then Heero says some systems were damaged.
>>19016411>If they keep giving us a concrete number and it doesn't add up to the stats15G is mentioned once in the show and again in the MG, both times refers to how many Gs the pilot will experience. By your logic the limiter unlocked overflag, which is what Graham's custom is, is capable of 12Gs
>>19016680>Turn-A's capabilitiesThe ones Fukui himself is also responsible for?
>>19016206>>Nuclear power>Isn't better than GN DrivesThanks to extenuating circumstances (VEDA sabotaging the development of nuclear energy to force the world to build an orbital elevator and a solar ring for "free" energy) the biggest problem that non-GN grunts have is that they have a limit on their energy output. The Flags and Enacts draws power via microwaves, while Tierens are all battery powered. Its also why 00 S1 Gundams have an easy time, because the enemy just can't compete. Even their best machines have a cap on their power output. Nuclear Reactor equipped mobile suits don't have that limitation. Even if Taurus are nowhere near the same level as a 00 S1 Gundam, the fact that they can keep going longer means Celestial Being's meisters can't just lone wolf their way through every engagement, and actually coordinate, which they've already proven to be TERRIBLE at. Its only when their backs are to the wall do the meisters get their act together and start coordinating like a team. And even then they're terrible; there's like only 2 out of 4 competent pilots, the other 2 relied too much on their superior machines to get by. Without Trans-Am CB would've been slaughtered by the GN-X. Moreso for any similar MS class (Gelgoog, Marasai, Adele, Jegan, Guaiz, Dagger, Taurus).
>>19017186Energy output isn't really a factor in why they can't take out the gundams, they can't take out the gundams because their weapons aren't good enough, in spite of that they still manage to take wins(HRL did it on it's own even) over either CB or thrones until something saves them.
>>19011500Skills drainThe scientists were blatantly needed to create any mobile suit of valueIf they're all hiding to undermine your rule, they can't create new better mobile suits, to attack the new better mobile suits they're creating
>>19016731manchildren are not grown-ups...
>>19017186Ye and batteries can't power the moonlight butterfly or antimatter torpedos
>>19016987>Fukuiwtf i hate turn a now.
>>19012198I honestly don't feel like the Leo is a cheap option. It's arguably modular grunt suit in the franchise. It's a true swiss army knife grunt suit, and can be fitted out for almost any situation. Yeah they're 20 year old suits, They're basically the Jegans in F91.
>>19016972It's mentioned in multiple kits, not just the MG. There's a reason people were excited when the number was brought back up in the MG after so many years.
>Implying you wouldn't want to pilot a Leo and feel like a champion when you defeat a Gundam
>>19017461Jesus, I'd feel safer in a GM or Zaku II than a Leo.
>>19017297There's less mass produced Leo variants than there are something like the GM or Zaku or even stuff like the Ginn and its either on par or slightly below/above something like the Tieren, I don't know if I could call it the most modular
I can't recall, were Leos even seen running in the series? Every instance I remember of them on the ground was them doing this steady walk even in the heat of combat.
>>19016312>>19016680>>19016710>>19016731-Can rewrite the world-Has to be careful not to destroy the world while fighting-Can use the "I Am the Only Hope Butterfly" which is stronger than the Hope Butterfly which is stronger than the Despair Butterfly which is stronger than the Moonlight Butterfly (Despair Butterfly is strong enough to destroy countless parallel worlds at the same time)-Cannot be copied, can analyse any sort of power or virus and nullify it instantly-Is unscathed by attacks that destroy universes-Is unscathed when hit by the Despair Butterfly-Summoned all the Gundams with their pilots and defeated them instantly
>>19018181>look it up >it's real
>>19018131>>19018131The problem with the GM and Zaku is that they're almost always new specialized suits built in the same line as the Normal GM-79 and MS-06, while also not being the same suit. You can see this reflected in their model numbers. For example the GM Cannon is RGC-80, it's not the RGM-79. You can’t easily change between the two. It's also the same way on the Zaku lines with things like Zaku Kai MS-06FZ. It gets even more dramatic when you remember things like the Zaku mariner which is RMS-192M. The point is that you can’t easily turn a Zaku or a GM into a different flavor of Zaku or GM. The Tieren also follows that scheme as well with MSJ-06II-A space type and MSJ-06II-E ground type. This is where the Leo becomes unique it's always an OZ-06MS just equipped with different things. It has more in common with the Strike Gundam, the Gundam Ages, or the Core gundam then it does with the other grunt suits which are actually large tech trees of different specialized mobile suits. This is why it’s modular compared to the rest.
>>19018226There are Zaku and GM variants that do not require drastic change that allows them to fulfil multiple roles. The most common example is how a Zaku with the Magella cannon can now do artillery strikes or how you can just give a GM a fucking sniper and it just works, or as Gihren Greed showed, you can just slap a flight pack on them and they're just out there ready to goThat being said, the only Leo that really fits what you're saying is maybe only the flight type and space type since Leo Cannons, EWAC Leos would require just as much work as converting a GM into a GM cannon(which mind you, isn't that much work as they share 60% of the parts)
>>19018252The leo Cannon is literally just cannons slapped on top of the sholders. You're right about the EWAC, though it's never been given it's own unique number.
>>19018252Pic related for GM just equipped with a sniper rifle, honestly it wasn't until games that I really discovered the wide arrange of weapons some of the grunts get just to fill roles quickly
>>19018259>put some piddly ass short-barreled small-bore cannons on the shoulders>dude it's fire support nowEven vanilla ass GMs and Zakus have received a bunch of weapon and equipment options through various side materials, more than Leos, really.
>>19016969Dober Gun is the only armament OZ has on Earth that was capable of doing actual damage to the Gundams
>>19018324It's so godawful that the only thing it can really hurt are other Leos.
>>19012163To be fair...I only watched the first episode but the first MS introduced other than the Gundams are absolutely HORRIBLE. They don’t even have beam weapons.they’re just ghastly levels of bad. I haven’t watched Wing...is the Leo even worse?
>>19018723You see these blocky motherfuckers? They got the win on gundams without beam rifles just through sheer tactics, meanwhile Leo command types can't even take out equally shit suits and even in that first episode, you see one of the Tierens get the drop on Exia and this isn't even getting to the actual better mobile suits like the GN-X>>19018683
>>19018683God damn, the first Leo getting its block shot off doesn't even blow up, when things like getting shoulder checked or shot in the camera completely vaporizes it, that's how weak those cannons are.
>>19018723Leos already have beam weapons and it's a miracle if they get to do much. Nostalgic Wing fans love to hype up Leos and say they fought on par with Gundams but they only ever do that when piloted by named characters and even then they can only cause minor damage to the Gundam they were fighting. >>19016016's screenshot is from a fight where the Leo did zero damage to the Gundam and only managed to stall for time until the pilot escaped in a cloud of smoke from a nearby explosion.They talk up the modularity but the Leo as a whole is a limited system with low performance. Space Leos are the worst space combat MS so far in the franchise, except for maybe some training MS from other shows. It has a bulky ass backpack that is clearly meant to be cost-effective and utilitarian rather than high performing. Then again, the Leo's only enemy in space prior to the start of the show were unarmed shuttles, space mines, or maybe other Space Leos if they were stolen by enemy troops. Other than that there's a land-use flight pack that allows low altitude flight, hovering, and other thruster assisted moves because the standard Leo barely has any usable thrusters and ends up walking most of the time. So far the only Leo that has been promising is basically a Tallgeese-lite made with Aries parts (>>19012198)It's basically the same situation as Zeon's Zaku where they'll develop the hell out of the machine and squeeze out as much performance as they can get, but actually making a viable next generation MS from that research basically required rebuilding the entire machine, from scratch.. with different parts.. into a different design. I've actually seen posts that tout the Leo's joints being used in later next generation machines as if that's an example of the Leo's greatness. How can it be a decent machine if the shoulders were really the best part the Leo had that could be carried over to other MS?
>>19018951Anyway, the reason for the low performance was because it was developed in a world at a time where only one large government had the funding and industry to build any kind of mobile suits at all. The Leo reigned supreme in a world of helicopters, tanks, and other conventional weapons. Some of the Leo's best successes in the show come from when they are thrown en masse at enemies, or if they're only fighting conventionally armed enemies. This is hugely apparent where a handful of Aries are able to suppress and dominate larger number of Leos, in episodes 12, 13, and 14 when OZ is literally taking over entire chunks of land from the Alliance by strategically deploying Aries teams to each location.Leo beam weapons are kinda low power. It has a beam saber sure, but that seems like an afterthought for if Leos were ever stolen and had to fight other Leos. Its beam rifle can knock out another Space Leo in one shot, but even then it still seems like it's just barely able to do the job. A Space Leo shooting another Space Leo's chest with a beam rifle causes massive damage and the target Leo will crumble, but this falls short of other beam rifles even from the same show where one shot from the other beam rifle causes entire MS to disappear in a massive explosion. It's like the Leo's beam rifle can't cause the target MS reactor to go critical, instead it just trashes them heavily but leaves behind the rest of the MS body.
>>19018951Mobile dolls were supposed to be good at shooting, until they weren't when it was convenient, so I can't even tell if it's entirely because Space Leos were just as trash as their ground equivalents or the mobile dolls were working as intended.
>>19018992Since performance generally only goes out when window when named characters are involved, I'm pretty sure both the mook Virgos and the mook Space Leos are working on a normal level in that scene. I suppose I should also mention that despite their generally poor mobility, some of the Leos do get close enough to ensure mutual annihilation by suicide crashing into the Virgos.
>>19019111And yes, before anyone asks, suicide charges with Leos were a valid strategy since they're hopelessly outclassed against some of the later MS of the show. These Leos and their pilots have nothing to do with the Gundam in the scene, they just happened to come by some mildly distracted Virgos and decided it was the best moment they would ever have for a suicide attack.
Have some more Leo webms.
>>19018734That's because S1 Meisters are just shit pilots. There's only 2 of them that are competent, and one of them has a split personality disorder. The other 1 has to babysit the 3 idiots.
>>19019165While it's cool to see the Leo go toe to toe with a Gundam this was completely fucking ridiculous. How is the Nataku not just overpowering the Leo completely? >>19019167>making sharp stops and turns at 8Gs is super humanMeanwhile real world fighter pilots can pull up to 9Gs while making turning maneuvers.
>>19020059>While it's cool to see the Leo go toe to toe with a Gundam this was completely fucking ridiculous. How is the Nataku not just overpowering the Leo completely?With a lot of skill and a lot of luck, a Volkswagen Beetle can outmaneuver a Porsche 718, but it's more of a fact that a named character is piloting the Leo, the main character in fact.>Meanwhile real world fighter pilots can pull up to 9Gs while making turning maneuvers.I'm not a flight expert, but I thought that they can only sustain that for a very short period of time before they conk out, but I agree, pulling off 8G maneuvers isn't superhuman.
>>19011500Anon, I will reveal you the truth that no other anon dare speak.Gundam Wing is a cheesy story with overpowered MC protected by multiple level of plot-armor. Zero level plot, a waste of rather good animation and grunt design.>>19011545Anon, I will reveal you the truth that no other anon dare speak.Gundam 00 is a cheesy story written by a hack, a pretext to mix up plot from FMP, design cue from ZoE and pseudo mystery from NGE and some extra source to not make it as obvious as Seed&Destiny.
>>19020996>Gundam is a cheesy story with overpowered MC protected by multiple level of plot-armor. Zero level plot, a waste of rather good animation and grunt design.FIFY
>>19021037I'd say that original Gundam did it better than most of its successors, Amuro's survival in the Gundam was less reliant on plot armor and more of the fact that the Gundam was just that huge of an upgrade over Zeon's mobile suits at the time. Amuro didn't jack suits and give them durability and firepower beyond what was typically displayed like this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTa9i2FMO3M
When up against the likes of the Gundams, the Taurus(which was literally stated to be OZ's debut new model), and later every variant of the Mobile Doll System, it's not hard to see why the Leo is often shown to come up short. That said, in the hands of capable pilots, it still has quite a bit going for it. And it leaves a strong legacy in the production of the Virgo and Serpent.
>>19021192Does Gundam ever pull an ace combat? where all suits are just highly lethal but exceptional, amazing, and borderline godlike pilots can change the tide of battle and even be pivotal keypieces in winning wars on skill alone?
>>19021417Not all suits, but a few fit that description.
>>19021417Yeah, literally Tallgeese, the Gundams and in a way the Mobile Dolls. >I really underestimated the Tallgeese. It completely ignores the commands of the pilot. It has an audacious design that far exceeds even today's most advanced equipment. >It takes into consideration all types of battle patterns and makes it possible for the one suit to achieve victory on its own. >The more I utilize the abilities of the mobile suit, the more I start doubting my own abilities. I start asking myself "is that all you're capable of doing"?>Rather than a suit for battle, you could say it's a suit for dueling. It takes a brave pilot to bring out its true potential. Brave enough to risk death for victory. >Yes! Fire them! That's what this mobile suit is demanding!>These results are completely undermining any psychological advantages I had. I thought our differences lay only in the capability of our mobile suits. That pilot may even bring about the full capacity of this Tallgeese.Granted, the Gundam Pilots don't really struggle with or contemplate the philosophy behind their respective suits, they just go to town as they must because the connection they have with their suits is purely pragmatic, and as such are able to bring out the fullest potential of anything they pilot. Zechs meanwhile, instead of truly understanding that the suit like any other weapon is simply an extension of himself, gets too caught up in the ideal of it in relation to who actually he is and as such is in constant competition with both himself and the suits he pilots. It's a "living in desire" vs "living in ideals" thing
>>19021443>>19021504Aside from that, the Wing Zero and Epyon also fit the question well. Here's the Epyon's debut where the pilot just goes crazy and ends up wiping clean the entire battlefield, allies and enemies.https://youtu.be/Uc5Q9a3EXCA?t=974
>>19021504So does that mean that Leos somehow have this hidden potential as well?...Leos basically are just mass produced Tallgeese right?So that makes sense maybe? they might be shit just because they have shit no name pilots?
>>19021589They sure did inherit the ability to explode well.
>>19021517The Wing Zero and the Epyon are the literal definition, if not embodiment of the idea, yes. All thanks to the ZERO System's penetrating the pilot's brainwaves, amplifying and controlling those associated with fighting, thereby increasing the pilot's combative abilities and bringing about results greater than the pilot's normal skills can achieve on their own.But if the pilot's thoughts and awareness are divorced by insecurity or wander away from anything to do with the fight for even a moment, the system hijacks their mind to get them back on task to assure their survival at any and every cost to the point where they even see their allies as the enemy on the grounds of their simply fighting or being a presence on the battlefield as well. Wufei's has a relatively unique case in that all he does is fight, particularly following the destruction of his colony. The only challenges he faces are to his resolve; he otherwise doesn't change or adapt at all throughout the course of the show. When he takes Wing Zero out, he insists with his colony destroyed and nowhere to go home to, that he just keep fighting for fighting's sake. Zero takes advantage of this mentality by revealing to him the thoughts he's been suppressing, in the end giving him a renewed cause to fight for in the form of stopping Treize and Zechs from bringing ruin to Earth and Space with their grandstanding warmongering.So Zero also brings clarity to an already combative mind. It also helps Heero come to express himself more earnestly come the end of Wing and throughout Endless Waltz.
>>19019247That doesn't say much when Wing Gundam pilots don't even have to try to deal with Leos.
>>19011500>Why were they so weak compared to every other baddie MS?They arent weak at all. Considering how effective they were for war to the point they were a game changer in the world of Wing. On paper a Leo is a better machine than a Zaku.
>>19022267>Considering how effective they were for war to the point they were a game changer in the world of Wing.This means nothing when they're literally just attacking non MS and crumbles the minute they have to fight ANYTHING remotely similar to it
>>19022267They're effective against tanks and other Leos, because other Leos were what they were mostly fighting against, that's about it.>On paper a Leo is a better machine than a Zaku.And onscreen they fare far worse, I'd bet on a bog standard ass Zaku II over a Leo any day.
>>19022388The Leo is fighting 5 overpowered machines from the start while the Zaku fights one. It's easy to make the Leo look bad when it has 5 times more chances to each episode.
>>19021417Not all MS, but Gundam Universal Century is known for it.- only having OP MS to let the pilot survive at first- have enemy that are either other aces with custom MS, or grunt MS almost up to the Gundam- then the MC mostly become superior because he have "newtype" power which is basically like being able to feel and see clearly 360° when other are in a fog (minovsky jamming).The original gundam did it rather well despite being forced to do childish Monster of the Week episode.
>>19011500Because by the time the show starts they're like 30 years old with barely any improvements in that time and their primary opponents on battlefields were tanks and infantry. Then cutting edge machines with extremely durable armor and advanced weaponry show up and they end up slaughtered. Its like asking why the Jegans stationed in the fronteir colony in Gundam F91 got slaughtered by the crossbone vanguard so badly.
>>19015845>Wufei>total fucking cunt>best theme song in the entire seriesDrives me fucking nutshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE7OS_fGz6E
>>19021589No because the Tallgeese is the high-powered mutant version that was overdesigned to the point that it kills people who don't respect it
>>19023531I more consider that the theme of the Gundams as a whole than just Wu Fei's, especially with how it's used to perfection in episode 1
>>19025322That's more of Wing's Issue of not really attributing the themes to the pilots besides Wings of a Boy who Killed Adolescence.
>>19018734>>19019247The ability of the various anti-gundam task forces to occasionally muster a geniune threat to Celestial Being in S1 is more testament to their pilots and planning than their equipment, whenever they perform well it's generally in spite of their mobile suits rather than because of them, with the exception of Graham and his Overflag, which does keep pace with Gundams, but only because Graham is a crazy person who doesn't mind flying a twitchy coffin.Setsuna gets blindsided by better pilots pretty often in S1, notably Graham, Sergei and Ali all get turns in out-playing him, but he's also the most green meister, and was essentially only selected as one as a joke.Lockon has an inconclusive duel where his opponent hols his own at one point (Graham again), but apart from that it's usually the tactics side. That space battle for instance went as almost well as it did for a few reasons. One unit was elsewhere, one was stuck on the ship because it was in maintenance when they got attacked and one was swiftly disabled because one of their aces was its pilot's psychic kryptonite. The only one they actually had to contend with was Virtue, the artillery unit with unwieldy weapons that struggles to hit anything that isn't basically stationary, and thus ill suited to direct mobile suit combat with no support (all the S1 gundams were overspecialised that way).Not that I'm belitting their success, I think it's really cool that the Gundams are far from invincible and conventional forces are able to rise to the task of posing a credible menace to them. But their mobile suits mostly sucked.Now the GN-X is fantastic and I'd easily name my favourite 00 grunt if I was comfortable declaring it one, it being a very limited run unit for a few dozen elites kinda makes that arguable.
>>19026203I wouldn't really say the pre GN-X suits suck, like the Tierens aren't very advanced, but they're the thing people meme Leos to be, they're a solid workhorse suit that held its own in series against the UNION and AEU's superior suits, we all know Flags and Enacts are actually pretty decent but we also know the Gundams themselves are designed to shitstomp them all. Arguably getting the win on virtue was still pretty impressive, it does speak for their mobility(that for sake of comparison, Leos seem to lack in most encounters) that they can even dodge it(of course, they also use their brain unlike most grunts and know when to attack and when to pull out) and a good number of their pilots can even retreat properly after being blindsided.After the success of the initial success of the GN-X though they did mass produce it(as in the first generation GN-X not the other ones that came after) so you can still call it a grunt suit, just a high spec one like Gelgoogs in OYW
>>19026203If anything that just lends further credence that the Wing Gundams were overpowered, while everything else was underpowered, 00 Gundams included. If it wasn't for Trans-Am, 00 S1 gundams would only be good enough to beat the first 5 GAT-X machines.
>>19026349>GAT-X machines.Are almost Tieren tier. Their maneuverability is a joke even with special equipment like the Aile pack, which is about as good as the Tieren flight type. Their only advantages are the PS armor and beam weapons, both of which can drain their batteries in minutes of a fight. GN machines can alter their mass with GN particles. There's nothing else in the franchise can match the kind of bullshit agility that comes from lowering your mass. Both the GAT-X and Wing Gundams would be fodder with the exception of the Wing, just because of its buster rifle. Most beam weapons won't even work on the 00 Gundams, even the GN T beam weapons weren't fully effective until they found out the specific particle frequency CB used
>>19026203>with the exception of Graham and his Overflag, which does keep pace with Gundams, but only because Graham is a crazy person who doesn't mind flying a twitchy coffinThe Exia is supposed to be 6 times better then the flag. Graham's flag is great and all but it's just a tuned up flag with some safeties disabled and it's already a Tallgeese expy. S1 CB is just really shit because they're disposable puppets being lead around by VEDA. Billy's mentor, the Union engineer that made the flag and graham's custom flag even says the technology is decades ahead of their own and they'd only seen the Gundams a handful of times.
>>19026466>Most beam weapons won't even work on the 00 GundamsJust like Wing. It wasn't until the Taurus' beam cannon that the Wing Gundams were taking damage from beams.
>>19016314>get punched>AXPLODESwat the fuck are these things made of?
>>19027415Gundanium, among other things.
>>19031066Wtf, why didn't he explode?
>>19031176As soon as the named character left the cockpit, it exploded.
>>19031176fake and gay
>>19031066 is an unfinished product.This is the rendering.
I just here wondering how long thread will survive if each bump will be new Leo variation
>>19040933Leos are love. Leos are life.
>>19021443>King Zechs>Queen Relena I don't think thats how royalty in a kingdom works
>>19040933This thread has lasted far longer than the 5 second life expectancy of the typical Leo pilot, so it's practically a lich by the current standard.
Currently going through wing for the first time and god it feels like a dynasty warriors game
>>19044024And that's a good thing!
>>19021504That's real deep and all but I'm pretty sure the major difference between the Tallgeese and the Gundam's is that the Gundam's are newer, more balanced in design so they aren't as rough to control. Zechs attitude isn't the problem as much as Tallgeese's crude thrust system of everything in the huge boosters being rough on him. The Gundam pilots don't have to risk killing themselves to go all out because their suits aren't as rough on them.Zechs also eventually gets the response problem where he's reacting faster than the suit because of all this condition another problem the Gundam pilots don't have to worry about because their suits are designed not to have that problem (they get upgrades but for better space fighting or just because their suits were wrecked and needed to be rebuilt anyway)
>>19021417It's usually half and half where a skilled pilot gets a powerful suit and works their skills and power in combination with each other. Aces in grunts can easily outperform other grunts and green pilots in super Gundam's can get troubled by ace grunts but game changers are usually skilled AND in powerful Gundams.
>>19020059>While it's cool to see the Leo go toe to toe with a Gundam this was completely fucking ridiculous. How is the Nataku not just overpowering the Leo completely?Cause Wufei wasn't trying to. Notice how he uses his Fang once and only one end of his beam spear vs how he fights WZ in the finale. And how he scores several hits against Heero while Heero gets none but never pushes the advantage. Wufei was just screwing around, he wants to fight him in Wing Zero not a grunt, so he lets him off.
plot armour vs grunts, the leo is a good suit but can never win against the power of the plot armour.
>>19044749but we have our ways.
>>19042375Zechs was never king, but if the Sank Kingdom never fell he probably would have been next in line to succeed his dad who was the last king, so it would have worked that way. Except he would have been called King Milliardo rather than Zechs.Relena should technically remain a princess as long as someone else is ruling the Sank Kingdom. If all others in line to succeed die or there is no other, then Princess Relena would rise to the title of Queen to rule over the Sank Kingdom. The only title of Queen that she had was for the world nation.
can the Leo's head turn?
>>19011500Because they're ancient by the start of the show. For proper context, the Gundam scientists made Tallgeese and the Leo was dummed down from that because you needed super humans or crazy people to pilot it. Their follow up was Wing Zero, which improves upon many of Tallgeese's flaws but it was way too strong for what they had planned, the five Gundams are then produced independently for the next 20 years. MS development in the Wing universe was mostly done by the five doctors, so it stalled hard, with the only notable MS produced being the Taurus. It's only when the five doctors are captured that it starts speeding up again with the Mercurious and Vayeate, leading to the development of the Virgo and Virgo II. Everything in the show is superior to a Leo, the Gundams are practically invulnerable to anything they have and the Leo's armor isn't that great either, Taurus essentially replaces them so it can take them out easily as well, and Virgo's are stupidly dangerous so of course they can take them out easily.
Yes and no. I don't think they were meant to in the show, but the animators must have slipped from time to time.
>>19044778They've been seen rotated in one or two shots over the course of the show, but it looks weird and unnatural. Generally it seems that some but not all OZ MS don't have rotating heads so I would imagine it wasn't meant to rotate and those shots were animation errors, since there are also points in the show where the Leo is forced to turn the entire upper body to look in a different direction.The Robot Damashii figure for the Leo comes with a static head which looks exactly like the show does. The odd thing about it is that there's an option kit for the RD figure that gives the Leo a rotating head, but it is ugly as fuck with huge seams that does not look accurate to the animation at all.
>>19044801Here's the RD Leo with moving head - It has a raised lip where the head sits, and the head's shape as well as the fact that it rotates now reminds me of those first tanks with rotating turrets from about a hundred years ago.
I like the Leo because it's the most utilitarian of the grunt suits in all of gundam. It doesn't have that feeling of "this is the bad guy" as much as it looks like a proper military suit. I think it might be the camera eye being so big and reminding me of drones.
>>19044996The Zaku didn't either until it got a million lookalikes that were increasingly more evil looking.
>>19044996Yeah, it looks like regular military khakis and a flat-cap which is niceMobile suits inspired by real life uniforms and armours just click for me, which is why I love the Unicorn Neo-Zeon sleeves aesthetic
>>19045021The mono-eye is a bit intimidating as its the focus of its vision. Two eyes (Gundams) give it a full plate helmet look and visors are reserved for tacticool folks. The square visor is just one giant camera. >>19045049That can be it too. The mono color makes it look like a lowly grunt but you apply some camo and suddenly you got U.S. military tech.
>>19044996it feels Russian like the T-37
>>19012244Unlike a certain flying coffin name Aries, the Leo atleast could survive for a little while, those flying fucks just burst into flames being glared at.
>>19027415I assume they are made of tannerite with an aluminum veneer.
>>19044751>No one cared who I was until I put on the mask.
>>19044826Oh god that looks unnatural.
Leo>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ugly korean mecha
>>19021192>the videoMobile dolls and human pilots works well together, dolls for frontline and repetition, and manned suits deal with more complex tasks and covering the dolls' flanks.
One day I am going to make a diorama of Heavy Arms surrounded by the bullet ridden husks of a dozen Leos.
>>19011500I used to pulls the heads of lego guys and pretend they were Leos and Tallgese. I had a white one that I added the thin 4 point lego piece too it between the torso and legs so I could add a back back thuster thing to the back. I had some lace from a set I stuck cylinders on it and that became the dober gun. The legs were too short so I added little bricks to them to make them a little longer. I used big pieces of styrofoam as terrain and set pieces to do battles. Sounds like a shit childhood but it wasn't and I liked making my own toys from random lego blocks. Fuck building the thing on the box. That's only useful to tell me what parts are in the box.
I can't believe that there are people ITT trying to argue that 00 S1 grunts aren't weak as shit. The A.D. setting is supposed to be low tech compared to standard gundam fare, so of course they are the weakest grunts that's the whole point you morons.>>19011670>>19011688LMAO imagine getting filtered by Wing
>>19060046these are all bad
>>19012163That was mainly to prove that 30 elite pilots chosen from around the world with near-peer technology could fuck up a trio of clowns getting by on superior specs. But yes, I like the GN-Xs very much.
>>19026235Interestingly enough, Tierens are solid enough that Exia has to actually struggle to cut them up. I have a soft spot for chonky absolute units, so The Tieren gets my vote.
>>19058304>The A.D. setting is supposed to be low tech compared to standard gundam fareYou're mentally retarded. The Flags literally fly at hypersonic speeds, they shit on most grunts by default. The only way they're less advanced is the lack of common beam weaponry and fusion reactors. Instead they went all in on super efficient green (solar) energy. AD is only lower than they should be because Aeolia and VEDA sabotaged some shit, forcing them to use alternative technologies.
>>19061903I like the bottom row honestlyMercurius Suivant is kind of my fetish
>>19016306Wing and 00 are built for powerlevels. As long as that shit is kept out of UC, I'm cool.
>>19016312Fukui was defeated by physics so Unicorn can't actually do that. Imagine being a pleb that was proven wrong 100 years ago and thinks time is a linear universal constant.
>>19064486If you're going to roll with the idea that the writer was defeated by physics because their story didn't conform to exact principles then the entire franchise, and really the entire concept of giant robots, is out the window immediately.
RepostingThe Leo was one of the best, most capable mobile suits we've ever seen in the franchise. It was in use for two decade before Wing even started. It could operate beam sabers, beam rifles, and optional equipment--like massive doberguns, shields, flight packs and high-mobility packs. And extra-armor. And guncannon-esque beam cannons that can destroy other MSs in a single hit. Even at 20 years old, Leos were capable of fighting against state-of-the-art Gundams and holding their own. Sure, the nameless grunts never put of much of a fight--but do they ever?We got to see Zechs, Treize, Heero, Une and Duo all kick major ass in Leos.Hell, in the first episode, we saw something that has never happened before in any other Gundam animation--in the very first episode, the show's hero lost.To an unmodified Leo.And against the Mobile Doll armies at the end of the show, what mobile suit ultimately led to World Nation to victory?Damn straight, it was the leo. A 20-year-old model.The Leo was engineering perfection. Here's a simple thing you may not have noticed: the Leo's main thrusters are located on its hips, leaving the back completely open. This allows optional equipment (himo pack, flight pack, etc) to hook directly into the suit's reactor. We only saw a few optional packs, but there could be more. The Leo was made for optional equipment--like the Strike Gundam and Daggers in Seed.Hell, look closely at the Virgo line. They're essentially the next version of the Leo... same basic design, only a few more bells and whistles. If we ever get Virgo of Virgo II HGs, you can bet that the extra armor components, when removed, leave ya' with... a very Leo-looking robot.
>>19071118>the chad leo>the virgin virgo
>people still defending this walking vomit-colored trashcan
>>19071118>Even at 20 years old, Leos were capable of fighting against state-of-the-art Gundams and holding their ownYou realize that the Gundams are stripped down versions of the ancient Wing Zero design right? The Zero was the Doctors' direct successor to the Tallgeese
>>19071172>he doesn't like rugged utilitarian versatile designsKill yourself.
>>19075447>rugged>explodes, no, vaporizes, if given a mean enough stare>versatile>it's a general purpose MS, nearly every mass production MS in every Gundam universe are just as versatile, some of them even moresoIt's Gundam's redshirt, that's its mark on the universe.
>>19073526Actually they were just based off the Wing Zero with the personal preference of the scientist who designed it.
>>19078756>Wing gundam can only shoot 3 times>Wing Zero can shoot infinite timesfor what purpose Doctor J?
>>19078756Pretty sure the individual gundams were made without the expertise of the other scientists. So the Wing's buster rifle doesn't have its own reactor
>>19078832Every scientist should have had a copy of the Wing Zero plans to work off of, or at least some kind of working knowledge of the machine. That's how Quatre found the blueprints for Wing Zero in the first place. How do you forget to include a reactor in the gun so now it has to rely on three charged batteries instead?
>>19078825He lost his hand for a reason
>>19078825To discourage reckless use of a WMD grade beam weapon. Can you imagine if the buster rifle was used like a regular beam rifle? Collateral damage everywhere.
>>19078863>Every scientist should have had a copy of the Wing Zero plans to work off of, or at least some kind of working knowledge of the machine.Probably the latter. The Vaeyate's gun is about as powerful as the buster rifle but can shoot forever and repeatedly and all five of them worked together to design it.
>>19017186Even with Trans-Am they got slaughtered. Trans-Am, in s1 at least, isn't a win button and if it isn't used strategically it leaves them completely vulnerable. I also don't think a nuclear reactor is anywhere near comparable to the output a GN drive can manage. If that was the case, why didn't Aeolia just monopolize that instead of developing completely new tech.
>>19017297Leos follow the same philosophy of star league era Mechs in Battletechin fact, they are the Blackjacks of Gundam, deemed a joke, but its a fucking monster if upgraded.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRe0UhgLKiE
>>19060046The big green one looks like a 40K space marine. PAULDRONS
>>19079823I'd like to imagine the scientists were happy to build new shit but it's not like they wanted to make OZ as powerful as they could, so they didn't just build a new Wing Zero for OZ.>>19080744Two inconsistent examples across 50 episodes makes me think that was an animation error rather than ironclad truth.
>>19044801heh never noticed it has a little flap to protect the head lens
>>19011500They weren't made of Gundanium
>>19079871I though of this as soon as i saw this episode.Take a line of Leos with 105s and give them extra drums of ammo and let them Dakka. Or even 2 teams, one to pin and one top assault through the pinned enemy position.
>>19020338French-US scrimmage over Dubai from 2009 from the french pilot's POV. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOswfrc7XtgFrench Pilot probably pulling over 9 G's for about 10 seconds between 00:23 and 00:33. You can tell he was totally smoked at the end of that maneuver and was gulping air for the rest of the video. Fighter pilots are really fit and train for G's, so that was a pretty gnarly move.
>>19083752I actually really like the antagonist mechs in Wing. They're not overly stylized. However the aquatic ones are garbage regardless of that.
>>19086356If your look to the center you can see a leo Kermit suicide
>>19088494And by doing so it won an air battle against a flying gundam.
>>19088639Surviving to be a writeoff is a win?
>>19021192I remember the time Sayla ran out win the he Gundam and Amuro had to follow her out in the Guncannon, He was just as much as a death machine as he was in the Gundam.
>>19044801My head cannon is that because the Leo's have Ben used for so long before being replaced they just kept updating the design and the ones we see moving their entire torsos are just older models of the same suit.
>>19088741Maybe Kai sucks as a pilot
>>19088796I can not dispute that.
>>19088741The Guncannon was firmly above any Zeon MS when it was first introduced, too, it's just that the Gundam was better. Amuro going from a suit that's amazing to one that's not as amazing but still pretty good and kicking ass in it isn't too farfetched.
>>19088796Kai sucked at first, but he got way better. Hayato is the garbage one
OZ's mistake was not giving the Leo a lion on its chestIf they had just done that the Gundams wouldn't have had a chance
>>19091473they put a lion on the shuttles and it didn't do jack
>>19091481The shuttle didn't have a lion-themed nameYou need lion theming on both your name and your shape to make it work
>>19018181Wasn't this the one piloted by Gackt too?
>>19027415It was just mistake, they were supposed to get 4 layers of Chobam armor, but the supply guy used an acronym so they plated it with C4 instead
>>19011523>an entire well-defended military installation on their lonesome.What about the Rx78-2 taking on that entire mining base on it's own?
>>19049656Why does that look from an instruction booklet of an old Master Grade?
>>19094472the mining base which no longer held strategic value and was thus lightly defended? that one?
>>19097162There's nothing in the episode about the mine's strategic value, beyond perhaps M'Quve noting that the site has good quality deposits and they get 2 grammes of Solium (whatever that is) out of every tonne they mine. Which Kycilia is happy with, and muses that if they could just get 5 other sites like it they could...and the thought is left hanging, but is implied to be "beat the Federation" or something of the kind. She does note they'd have to stop the Federation getting any Solium of their own too though, so Solium is probably a component of Minovsky reactors or something.That said, it was only one of dozens of mines, noted to mine 102, so there were presumably at least 100 others and it was only lightly defended with some fixed placements of machine guns for the most part. The only mobile weapon on site was the Adzam, and the only reason it was there was because Kycilia and M'Quve happened to be visiting the site, and had it with them so far as we know. It wasn't part of the mine's normal defense or anything. Bright and the rest of the White Base crew note afterwards that if it had been the main mine (i.e. Odessa), that the Gundam would never have been able to take it on alone.
>>19058304I watched the whole thing, if it makes any difference. Wing still sucks.
>>19023531Cross Rays was a slog, but giving all the Wing boys their themes was fucking great.
>>19108406>that moment you realize Tallgeese III is just the same as the others with new shoulders, weapons and a head.
>>19099701I love that one.
>>19011500>which is more than all the UC series combined until Unicorn
>>19111313The Tallgeese is one of my favorite MS designs ever and I can't fucking stand that they had to ruin it with the TGII/III
>>19022388> I'd bet on a bog standard ass Zaku II over a Leo any day.Imagine if you were on that Zeon infiltration team to side 7, but instead of witnessing the RX-78 in tests it is instead the motherfuckin Hi-Nu Gundam being flown by a "New game+" Amuro Rey.That is the situation the Leo pilots faced in Wing. Anything less than a Hizack/Leo level grunt suit is laughable to deploy.
>>19119874Heero isn't anywhere close to "New Game+" Amuro, especially in that opening episode, which is presumably what you're on about. He barely even puts up a fight once Zechs launches, and it comes off like him just giving up honestly, because Zechs puts the Wing Gundam in a lazy leglock while still high up in the atmosphere and despite the fact Heero should be able to just shrug out of it, or just fly regardless he just drops like a rock. Then when he does wake up afterwards, his first thought is to blow up his unit.
leos are based. i still have all 3 colors sitting in a toy box at my parents house
>>19119874Hell I'd bet on the RX-78-2 over an army of Leos, those Leos infiltrating Side 7 would still get crushed by New Game Amuro.
I just love the shoulder shield, sue me.
>>19115664What's so bad about the later variants besides the obvious changes? Or is it just color preferences?
>>19127291They ruined the aesthetics and turned it into a space samurai like the gundams.
>>19144514Leo looks stellar in plenty of colors.