Can I be a good writer even if I don’t have an internal monologue?
I think you could probably put pen to page with whatever mechanism you fabricate speech, but you'd probably have difficulty in the editing stage. Do things ever "sound" wrong to you when you read them? Word choice, cadence, etc?
>>22079151Words just sound how they sound
>>22079157Can you write a sentence, come back to it, and decide it would be better another way? If so, what makes it better or worse?How do you experience the rhyme and rhythm of poetry?
>>22079164How would a sentence be better than the same sentence written in a different way? You stupid?And poetry doesn’t have to rhyme lol
>>22079180Bait but word choice, brevity, voice, etc.It doesn't, but I'm curious how people with no inner voice experience the ones that do.
>>22079138I still am completely baffled that others don’t have internal monologues or cannot picture things in their mind.
>>22079204If you didn’t spend all this time in your head you may have gotten some pussy
>>22079228I did.
>>22079138What do you mean you don't have an internal monologue? How is that possible?
>>22079138> Asks 4chan for writing adviceYou're doomed anon
>>22079138Probably not, but I wouldn't know, as I can't even imagine not having internal monologue.
Not sure I even believe the not having an internal monologue meme
>>22079138>I don’t have an internal monologue?I never understood if this is a meme or not. What does it even mean? Is it just silence in your head all the time? It makes no sense.
“So if your boss asks you to do something right at the point you were planning to leave work you don’t think ‘oh f***ing s**t b*lls what a pain? in your head, while saying ‘No problem at all boss,’ out loud?” one user asked.“No. Never had that," Vadermaulkylo responded. "If I’m asked to do something I don’t wanna do, I just get kinda frustrated but that’s about it. I don’t really think to myself.”Others confirmed their experience was similar."I’m the same way," said user GohanShmohan. "I don’t have any conscious thought about what I’m feeling, or any stream of dialogue describing it to myself. I just feel it. It’s like the inner dialogue is the middle man in my head, who just isn’t there."For others, it was a bit more complicated."I don't have a inner monologue either. Any time I have to communicate outside my head with words, I have to "translate" what I'm thinking. That takes time and effort. It's why I vastly prefer written communication over verbal, since you can take more time than the instant response a verbal conversation requires," Redditor BobbitWormJoe wrote."When I know I will need to verbally communicate (such as if I need to make a phone call or bring up a topic at a meeting), I prepare mentally as much as possible so I know what words I actually need to say. On the other hand, if I'm in a conversation where I haven't had time to organize and translate my thoughts ahead of time, I constantly have long pauses where I'm doing it in real time, which comes off as weird to people who notice it. This annoyed my wife for a long time until we both realized why it was happening."Asked if they ever got songs stuck in their head, Vadermaulkylo replied: "Actually that’s probably the closest thing I have to one. Currently got a couple songs from that new Lil Wayne album in my head. I read stuff in my head too of course."
>>22079180Scary. You look like a human but you're an empty vessel.
>>22079810Animals experience it all the time, so it has to be at least possible.
>>22079204>cannot picture things in their mind.Do they not have visual memories?
>>22079876Well animals can't talk but humans can't so it's unclear whether once you talk you should be able to only be able to talk out loud.
>>22079889Nope. I mean, I could describe things, but I can't see them while doing so.
>>22079897So do you actually not have visual memories? Like once you see something you can't remember it visually? Yet you do remember it but you just can't visualise it? Is this related to lack of internal monologue or separate?
For many years, I thought my inner-monologue and inner-dialogue was schizophrenia, because SO FEW people actually have it. I can be washing the dishes, and in my mind I'm having a conversation with Genghis Khan and asking him why he chose particular battle strategies etc. I will visualise our conversation like a movie, it'll usually be in third-person but I won't see myself in the visualisation. Immediately after this, I will then switch to a conversation with a former girlfriend or a colleague etc. It's as though they are there with me, expect it's all imaginary. It's why I almost never get bored, I'm forever visualising different scenarios, planning future events etc.To me, this is the most normal thing in the world - I'd hate to be without it.
>>22079921In the past few years my internal monologue made a decisive step outside so I always talk out loud with myself on the street. I know I look crazy but I don't care. It just naturally goes from internal words to actual aloud words.
>>22079897I had an ex-gf like this. If I hear the word apple, I immediately visualise it. She only hears the word, has no mental image of it.I knew another girl who had aspergers and she was practically face-blind in terms of memory. She recognised people when in their presence etc, but could not remember how they looked afterwards - even close family members etc.
>>22079928I do this too. I will whisper, or even verbally speak to the other "participant" who isn't there and will also laugh at particularly funny thoughts. My wife often walks in on my speaking to a non-existent participant. It freaked her out at first, but now she jokes about it.I'm not schizophrenic, I exhibit none of the criteria. I think it's possibly just a rare mind-type, I'm between INTP and INTJ on the the M-B chart.
>>22079906My memories must contain some visual information, because I can describe things. Like I could draw a picture of the Eiffel Tower easy enough. But I cannot summon an image in my 'mind's eye'.Quick! What color is your mother's eye color? Presumably, you can answer that immediately without the need to imagine your mother's face. It's just a fact you know. Brown. Blue. Whatever. So you have some 'visual' information you can access in another way.Most people with no inner voice also have aphantasia, but not necessarily the other way. I have no mind's eye, but can't turn off my constant inner monologue. I wish I could sometimes.
>>22079941I'm INFP/INFJ so I don't know if it's related to that and I'm not even convinced it's that rare.
>>22079942Nope, I immediately envisaged my mother's eyes, and then "zoomed out" like a photo. That's exactly what it's like, it's like seeing a photo in your thoughts.I'm incredibly observant about minor changes regarding people's appearance because I will have a very clear visualisation of how they looked the last time I saw them. It impresses the women in the office when I'm the first to notice the subtle difference to their hairstyle when they first walk in, or that they're wearing slightly different glasses etc. I can't help it, it's like my mind "photographs" things. However, I am SHIT at remembering names/words. I struggle to remember words from a song UNLESS I have read the lyrics because then I can visualise the lyric sheet and "read" it from memory.
>>22079942Makes sense... It's a fascinating topic, challenges a lot of Berkeley's nominalism too. I assume this destroys your ability to read poetry but perhaps you may still be able to write? Not sure.
is this some sort of disability? like where you can't imagine speech and conversation? i've never heard of this.someone mind explaining?
>>22079941>between INTP and INTJ>>22079952>I'm INFP/INFJYou people have thoroughly misunderstood Jungian typology and have likely adopted it purely as a form of self-identification rather than as a means of self-improvement. One cannot be between two types, and if it were the case, then it wouldn't be between two types so different from each other like INTP and INTJ, which are vastly different if you knew a shred about the cognitive functions! There is no way, in Jungian psychology, for Ti Ne(INTP) to suddenly transform to Ni Te(INTJ). But Te Ni(ENTJ), Fi Se(ISFP) and Si Fe(ISFJ) are all valid transformations from INTP and vice versa.
>>22080001Well, I did one test for work and it showed me as an INTP. I did the same personality test again at home and it showed me as INTJ. I did it a third and final time a while afterwards and once again was declared as INTP. The questions are on a gradient, so providing answers relies on the subject's mood at that point.
>>22080001Oh, and BTW, if I can use Jungian typology as a form of self-improvement then I'm all ears....I love data and knowledge.....feed me.
>>22080001I didn't misunderstand Jung since I never read him and I never will. I just took an online test and the description was correct. The other descriptions are not. Also I'm not trying to improve my personality since I'm not a teenager and this stuff is purely descriptive not normative.
>>22080001cont.And for N(intuitive) types, having an inner monologue is very intrinsic to their nature, especially for INFJs who are know to talk to themselves regularly due to their dominant Ni. More emotional(F) types tend to communicate to themselves as if they are talking to a different person. A thinking(T) type wouldn't do this so much, as it is less logical and for the INTP, viewed as pointless.What people describe as "lacking internal monologue" is either people who have an inner voice but doesn't speak to himself with it, or sensing(S) types who are weaker in conceptual and imaginary areas as opposed to the intuitive types, but still, however, possess an inner voice. Cognition cannot function without an inner monologue.
>>22079138how do you not have an internal monologue?
>>22080036>Cognition cannot function without an inner monologue.Debunked by reality. Cope.
>>22080030>use Jungian typology as a form of self-improvementhttps://mbti-notes.tumblr.com/basicsThis site is a good resource, despite being on Tumblr. Assuming you're an INTP, basically you are trying to know what you're good at and what you struggle with. An INTP(Ti Ne Si Fe) is good at logical thinking(Ti) and imagining scenarios(Ne), but bad at keeping habit or discipline(Si) and critically struggle with societal norms(Fe). These are his functions, however, the Shadow is more essential to self-improvement. The 8th function is what a type neglects the most and will probably be the final function one will master in one's life. For the INTP that would be Fi, which signifies, emotionally caring for one's self, acknowledging one's need for affection and belonging. I can go on and on about INTP.
>>22080036Well, as we've discussed, I'm declared as an INTP according to the test - and I converse to imaginary participants all the time. I want to know what motivates them, so we "discuss" it. From lofty figures like Hitler and Wordsworth to mundane individuals like my next-door neighbour or a colleague. It's a constant prattle in my mind that sometimes spills over to me actually verbalising my replies in quick conversational style. It sometimes helps me write because I can bounce ideas between myself and an imaginary third-party to see how they "receive" said ideas.It's also useful because I can't truly mourn the loss of loved ones because I can easily view them in my mind like a video recording and "speak" with them. I don't believe in the afterlife, but then I don't need to - I get to "visit" loved ones at will.
>>22080031>I'm not trying to improve my personality since I'm not a teenagerA boy tries to describe himself, a man tries to improve himself.>this stuff is purely descriptive not normative.I don't knoe about normative, but descriptive psychology is the weakest of all psychologies, which seems to dominate the field today. Functional analysis is theoretical in its foundations and builds upon Jung, ie you cannot read it from Jung.
>>22080071Thanks for the link. I'll look into it.From the brief description that you give, I fit quite nicely within those categories.Interesting....
>>22080084>It's also useful because I can't truly mourn the loss of loved ones because I can easily view them in my mind like a video recording and "speak" with them.Mistaking imagination for real life is a sign of schizophrenia, the 2 should stay firmly separate
>>22080086I'm not a teenager. Psychology is just a toy. Improvement is done by growing closer to God not reading pseuds. You're a child which is why you're obsessed with these toys.
>>22080084Doesn't sound like INTP behaviour, but I don't know you personally to say. It does sound like mild schizophrenia to me, but then again, mild any disorder is likely common behavior.
>>22080092Oh, I make no mistake - I know that they're sadly gone. But I can easily recall memories of them, and feel the emotion associated with that memory and even "ask" the loved one for guidance regarding particular scenarios. They then provide their own idiosyncratic reply - I hear their voice, see their mannerisms etc. So they're never fully "gone" from me. It's almost like they exist, just in another time frame. Intangible, but accessible through thought.
>>22080108What behaviours/traits typify schizophrenia?
>>22080109They don't exist physically. This is entirely different if you're a mentally healthy person. There's a difference between vivid imagination and schizophrenia and you don't seem to understand it.
>>22080100Your need to debase a different way of thinking as a "toy" speaks more about you than it does about me. Nothing humanity does is for play. They do it out a need, which in normative society, would be fulfilled by religion and family. And I say this myself as a religious person, the theory built on Jung is perhaps the only worthwhile study of psychology, but I myself am not to big into it these days. But you are right about "Improvement is done by growing closer to God" and I've never read Jung.
>>22080117Having an inner voice communicate with you, seperate from your own person. You can read DSM's chapter on schizophrenia i guess. But DSM is mostly garbage.
>>22080118Of course they don't exist. They're dead. I will never see them again, outside of pictures/videos. Schizophrenia would presumably mean that I think they are still real, but they're not. It's purely my imagination that allows me to recreate conversations with them, see them in my mind etc.
>>22079921i'm pretty sure anyone can do this, whether or not they're interested in letting their mind wander like this, is another story. are you sure this is something rare?or please explain (what you think) the difference is.
>>22080125See, I think I don't conform to that diagnosis because my (limited) understanding of schizophrenia comes from documentaries interviewing schizophrenics who describe their experience: an internal or external voice guiding them through dialogue beyond their own control (ie God telling them that they're being watched, or a tap whispering to them etc), or incredibly disordered thoughts/speech.
>>22080138I think it's rare, purely from anecdotal experience - because when I've asked dozens of people throughout my life if they have the same experience, none of them have. Or they'll say "Yes, I talk to myself. It's normal - like, I'll tell myself that I need to buy milk later..."But it's not like that for me, it's full-blown hour-long conversations with anyone I want to envision. No one else I have spoken with (in person! sic) has this experience. They even sometimes react as though what I'm explaining to them is insane (it isn't, because I'm aware of it and fully in control)
>>22080144Yes, you are not schizophrenic
>>22080124Peterson, is that you...?
>>22080157that is pretty rare (and weird).i think most people have small episodes like this. fantasizing, daydreaming, things like that. you'll often hear people talk about having arguments with people in their heads.i've accidentally spoken out to friends that aren't there when im super sleep deprived.. lolnormally though, it's FAR less engaged.
>>22079138A lesser board would've gone into a heated discussion about man in pic. I'm proud of you guys, and I apologize for being the first to mention it at all.
>>22080197I've done some brief research regarding it (like, 3 mins on Google) and Google suggests it might be anxiety disorder (a way to allow me to go over past events to not repeat the same mistakes in future) but I'm not sure if that's correct. These aren't negative memories, they're almost like enjoyable reveries. Thinking about when they tend to happen, I've noticed a pattern: it's usually when I'm doing something where I don't have to concentrate such as hiking, or chores, or when I'm laying in bed trying to sleep. It's more a case of filling "dead time", just a very active imagination with an acute visual memory. During these times, I can allow my mind to wander - and it can get to the point where the conversation spills over to me verbalising my replies.I need to "zone out" to initiate these scenarios, almost like a form of meditation.
>>22080192>Peterson, is that you...?I am offended by this. I would never sell myself to Israel and Ben Shapiro. And Big Five is worthless
>>22079997https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aphantasia
>>22079876You don’t have real insight into subjective experience.
>>22080223Hahahahaha I can't believe that book cover is real. How To CauseDwarfism and AcromegalyWITH A POOR USE OF PERSPECTIVE ONLY
>>22080208Opened the thread just to have a glance at the discussion about the man, if any, but was absolutely stunned to find none being there.Browsing this board is truly a rather fascinating experience unlike any other.Keep it up /lit bros!
>>22081074What's there to discuss about that man?
>>22079942This is literally me. But I have a inner monologue constantly. Maybe this is why I like movies more than novels?
>>22079934Why does this terrify me?
>>22079138How did you formulate that question in your mind then?
>>22079157what a fucking retard kek
>>22079934I have the same problem. Faces are too much information to have in my head at once. I can remember photos of faces but not real faces with their constantly changing expressions and viewing angles and haircuts.
>>22079138Write a short story and find out.
>>22079151>but you'd probably have difficulty in the editing stageAs opposed to having no difficulty? All of the most renowned wordsmiths were autistically obsessive and spent countless hours writing and rewriting passages to get the desired effect. Waugh, Céline, Flaubert spring to mind.
