The "Everything Will Be All Reich Edition" editionPrevious thread:>>21783546/wg/ AUTHORS & FLASH FICTION: https://pastebin.com/ruwQj7xQRESOURCES & RECOMMENDATIONS: https://pastebin.com/nFxdiQvCPlease limit excerpts to one post.Give advice as much as you receive it to the best of your ability.Follow prompts made below and discuss written works for practice; contribute and you shall receive.If you have not performed a cursory proofread, do not expect to be treated kindly. Edit your work for spelling and grammar before posting.Violent shills, and relentless shill-spammers, should be ignored and reported.DO NOT RESPOND OR ACKNOWLEDGE THE EXISTENCE OF GROUNDS KEEPING PROSE!Simple guides on writing:https://youtu.be/pHdzv1NfZRMhttps://youtu.be/whPnobbck9shttps://youtu.be/YAKcbvioxFkThread theme:https://youtu.be/ENyxseq59YQ
Hey /wg/ Im being published! Vote now to sabotage my career!>>21792652(and again thanks for half believing half bullying me)
>>21792985What is your favorite rhyming meter?
>>21792874We're all gonna make it bros
>>21793031May sound unambitious but probably the quatrain Though It often changes. Right now im reading a lot of narrative poetry with Byron and Ariosto and the like so now im obsessed with the ottava rima.Also i think of Auden's Letter to Lord Byron as a great exemplary poem. Something shows the way modern poetry can be written .
>>21792874>planning notes and worldbuilding notes at tens of thousands of words>actual story at zero>even though all the planning and worldbuilding I do is so that I can focus on the story, what I *want* to dohuh?
>>21793134they got another one boys...
>>21792874Did anybody listen to the Fedbook interview?
based OP pic for once, good job>90k words>last two chapers fully outlined>can complete the novel within a week
>>21793178I opened it then got bored 5 minutes in
>>21793134you are already dead
>>21793178I'll be watching it today. Do you want my thoughts or something?
>>21793204Congrats anon, just one last push (and then a lot more work) but savor that moment. Not many people get there.>>21793178Tbqhwy he sounded like a cutey
>>21793178Is this going to become the next Call of the Crocodile?
Thank you /wg/. Published my book with the edits suggested on here.
>>21793363What is it?
>>21793363selfpub or tradpub?
>>21793407Don’t want to self-promote. >>21793414Self-pubI wish I knew who helped me. Their edits were 10/10.
>>21793427Shills quivering in fear
Last thread I posted my idea for a game plot and wrote a small excerpt for the character. Trying to make a gritty dark fantasy story but I haven't written anything since like high school (it may or may not show)https://privatebin.net/?018b8232f3a6d24e#DtiMbmmotnWNFGw7YM3UAwfiATfnFyCHVXfuoSL46WEKIf it's hard to follow along:>Character is walking in the night, exhausted>He is in a field walking to his objective>Passes out>Wakes up alive>Recollects as to why he's there in the first place>FlashbackAnd that's about as far as I've gottenCriticism is helpful, I just wanna make sure I'm not being too edgy and stupid in a way that detracts from the story and/or in a way that I would get laughed at for lol
>>21793621You suffer from what I used to suffer from, you are writing "YOU" and not your character. You're writing to entertain and tell us a story about some random dude. We don't give a shit about "You" and your "self-insert", we care about the character. Thus you need to remove a lot of fragments and bunch of random babble that doesn't tell me anything about the protagonist.
>>21793654I'm not *trying* to self insert at least, but I think the problem might be that I just haven't established the character fully. I want the reader to kind of discover who he is as the story goes but I'm not sure how well I'm doing that.What kind of "babble" do you mean? I'm all ears
>>21793689All this is pointless.>The night's air does nothing to cool my burning calves.*I don't want this.*My body steps.*Stop.*Another step.*Let me rest.*Forward.We march forward. My knees crack. My thighs tremble. The blood in my feet is coming to a boil. They scream, but I choose not to listen.Every blade of grass that drags along my feet intends to stop me. The wind pushes against me. It tells me to stray from my purpose.It's the world that wishes to stop me for simply existing. I am a foreigner here.I wonder if the torment of pushing myself beyond my limits is greater than what would happen if I were to stop. I wonder if the anguish of that very uncertainty is my true punishment.My will has vanished. I am merely a machine.I simply cannot give up. It is duty that carries me.And yet, all I am doing is walking. A burden only a warrior can feel, but there is no such thing as a warrior. There is no such thing as bravery, or courage. There is only death.The coal-black night frightens me. I am terrified of the things I have seen. A step forward means another into uncertainty. Luck has only graced me this far.My eyes are just a slit cut from iron. My head is a statue's. This helmet crushes my neck. My chainmail freezes my body, and my kilt leaves me feeling naked and exposed. My sandals pool with blood and blister my feet. The stench of bile and shit on my sword makes me vomit. The herbs in my satchel give me diarrhea and sickness. What protects my body, weakens my mind.Valor is a trick. I see it in our legends, I hear it from our kings. I smell it on knights and adventurers. It assaults my every sense but my feel. I can never feel it. The more I am given through my deeds, the more it flees from me. It is vapor.It isn't for valor that I push my broken body forward. I see that great, evil tower on the horizon. It scares my townspeople. It's the one thing I have. Purpose. I have no identity. I am nobody. I am only the manifestation of my purpose. I am only a sellsword. Not paid in silver, but in purpose.That is why I am walking into this frigid, unforgiving night.It is why I bother to wake to the sun that burns my eyes.Many of my nights end so. I have again counted myself lucky to not have been gorged by raptors who smell the dried blood that trickled down my legs days ago, or the sweat-stained kilt of leather that bathes me in grime.
>>21793701I find myself laying on my back. I can no longer feel the blood coursing through my body. My muscles will not move. The only thing I trust to say I am alive is the horrible aching in my extremities.For a moment, I see that red morning sky. I allow myself to see it. I allow my head to crane up, to see my body laying in the grass. I see the world. An endless expanse of green. The same field of grass that did everything in its power to bring me down last night now offers me safe passage to venture further. There is one beautiful thing in this world, it is light. I can see.Such beauty is only a trick. It is there, and it is beautiful, but this beauty distracts me from my purpose. Though, I should take a moment to remember... What is my purpose?I start with my fingers. They're tingling. Then my arms. I am being stabbed and pricked. I do the same with my legs, until I can finally move. Time to get up. Clenching every muscle in my body doing it, I slowly rise to my throbbing feet. Every joint and bone in my body cracks, but I am alive.I start piecing together shards of memories. Many are gone, but I'm beginning to remember who I am.Truthfully, I don't know who I am. I've long forgotten my name, my childhood, my parents. I merely live through purpose. I live through my townspeople. I am only there for them. I only remember that, a fortnight ago, my village elder sent me with a strange amulet into the wilderness. Yes, I remember it clearly now.
>>21793701>>21793704So how do I flesh out how my character feels without an internal monologue? Is it just that the monologue is too much? I don't want my story to be a cookie-cutter DnD fantasy, I'd really like it to be gritty and go into detail about the reality of going on a grueling, tiring adventure full of danger and death. I wanna do the opposite of romanticizing that
>>21793722You don't have to monologue stuff. You can even have something like this."Elder." I greeted the old man."Chikfil-a, it's a great sandwich.""Stop wasting my time old fart, give me my mission."The Elder sighed. He was disappointed in me. "No need to die so quickly.""My father was weak for dying so easily to such a weak woman like the Witch of the Bog."That conversation shows us our hero is young, ambitious, hot-headed, and hates his father for being weak.
>>21793722He doesn't need paragraphs and paragraphs of oh woe is me, everything is terrible, awful, horrible, my feet hurt and I'm tired. less is more. set the scene, get some dialogue between characters, and then maybe put a one off internal aside and then move the fuck on
Camon’s been searching for you for a half hour.” That’s kind of why I hid in the first place.“ You should get going,” Ulef said. “The job’s almost ready to begin.”Ulef was a gangly boy. Nice, after his own fashion—naive, if one whohad grown up in the underworld could ever really be called “naive.” Ofcourse, that didn’t mean he wouldn’t betray her. Betrayal had nothing to dowith friendship; it was a simple fact of survival. Life was harsh on the streets, and if a skaa thief wanted to keep from being caught and executed, he had to be practical. And ruthlessness was the very most practical of emotions. Another of Reen’s sayings.“Well?” Ulef asked. “You should go. Camon’s mad.”How do I write like this? This is perfect.
>>21792985Congratz. For the record I thought you were good. Be careful posting here tho, you will become a lit poet.
>>21793805what the fuck does that even mean
>>21793818it means that even he could become the next you know who
>>21793818you don't want to be associated with 4chan.
>>21792874Lmao another AI generated pic in the OP. Will anyone ever bother with human generated art again?(No, I'm not talking about prose, we all know this will always be safe from AI)
>>21792874Sad to think the next J.K. Rowling with be some third world shitter. Just a sweaty ESL feeding past literature into an AI and hitting generate with a second rate meerkating plan.Not that the person doing it wont deserve the money more then her. Its the loss of potential creativity and the imagination generated by the discovery of the humanely created work that gets me.I really do not look forward to the future of literature bros.
>>21793828Not true. After a couple more advancements in intuitive algorithms no work on a dusty book shelf shall remain un-bastardized.
>>21792985Im happy for you my man. I noticed you around, still take >>21793805 advice and build an outside audience
>>21793840I've been hearing this for coming up on two years.
>>21793856>My life has been so short that i was not around at the dawn of social media.>in 5-10 years it wont be cracked.Eliminate all zoomers!
>>21793899Neck yourself retard nigger"Le neural network AI generation" meme is barely like four years old
>>21793925and how much has it progressed in those 4 years?it's clear this is your first time seeing a new technologyhave fun. it only gets worse
>>21793938>he continues to desperately hold onto "le ebin oldfag ECKS DEE" personaI remember having dial-up installed in my house you fucking mongoloidRetards like you danced like this around FUCKING CLEVERBOT. AI generation will threaten the jobs of copywriters and production line smut "writers", nobody else.
>>21793953copywriters are being pressured to use AI you clodyou're a goof
How do I compete against all the A.I. writers?
>>21794031Be weird I guess. AI has to learn from something, so all this worry about AI writing, it's probably gonna mean at the endpoint that popular authors of today are just never gonna die as long as someone can feed them prompts.
>>21793953>AI will make human help desks redundant.>AI will make digital artists obsolete.>AI will make manufacturing jobs disappear.>AI will make creative writers extinct.>Mega corporations continue to loot and plunder our natural resources. Paying off our politicians to grease their way through toothless regulations.>They own access to our social lives, our private details, our money.>All while we squabble on the dopamine dispensing internet about who's the bigger retard.>Due to the lack of oversight they bought, one of them will create an AI so incomparably powerful and plug it into the wrong thing.>Thus ends the saga of the monkey manYou and I are unwittingly conscripted riders in the coming apocalypse my afro american friend.There is nothing you or I can do to stop it.It's too late.Keep slinging your mud, it will do neither you nor I any good.
Nobody will ever buy my book.
>>21793359Probably not since Fedbook is actually good
>>21794052You're just repeating the rhetoric of AI doomsayers from half a century ago just dressed up in cringe 2020 clothes.
Question: Is it a comma after said or a period when you split the quote and will "You" be capitalized?>“No. You’re still suspended, remember?” Hollard said. “You two also need to recuperate and heal your wounds.”>“No. You’re still suspended, remember?” Hollard said, “you two also need to recuperate and heal your wounds.”
>>21794514https://www.englishgrammar101.com/module-13/punctuation-quotation-marks/lesson-2/quotation-marks-with-dialogueIt doesn't answer my question :(
>>21794505comma and lower case yquestion marks aren't real punctuation, you can pretend they're commas for the sake of dialog tags
>>21794530thank you anon. I even dug around published books but couldn't find an example.
>>21794505Period. The old sentence finished with the question mark.
>>21793828Sure, we can use human-generated art.You want to pay for it?
I want this scene to be arousing and intimate What can I do to make it more evocative? What works, what doesn't?
>>21794620Don't use the word "succubus". We want to be able to guess the monster with your given hints
>>21794616why does everything have to be for fucking moneyimagine someone so entitled that they think they should get paid a full salary--nay, enough to be mansion and european vacations rich--to sit around doing their creative hobby. just imagine that. you're nothing but a parasite.art and literature would both be improved if "professionals" were put against a wall and hobbyist virtuosos were let loose. walk through a bookstore and tell me if anything on those shelves published in the last 10 years is worth reading. if the money wasn't an element only pure-hearted lovers of the craft would write. the rest of you money grubbing trash-generating rent seekers can rot in hell. even digitally the internet is cluttered with rent seeking charlatans.get a fucking day job.
>>21794630based as fuck
>>21794620don't use the following words>disfigured>agonized>nauseatingly>delirium>gorging>batteredcome up with nicer ways of doing it. for instance, rather than gorging use savoring
>>21792874When the party passed the law, people started to get worried. "Weed out the undesirables", what a way to phrase it. How blunt and to the point. The rules were equally simple: Nominate any one person, be it the single mother next door, the crazy hobo shitting in the streets outside the welfare department or the president himself. The nomination was anonymous but it triggered a delicate, bureaucratic process. You'd wake up to a letter in the mailbox, informing you, that you were nominated for execution. One week would pass. One week that would give you the chance to set up your defence. But the defence could be literally anyone, that was the good part. One person to stick up for you, tell the court that you were a decent person, a hard working individual, an asset to society. And that would be it. Nomination dropped. First people refused to do it, thought it had to be some kind of sick joke. Some teenagers nominated each other for shits and giggles, just to defend each other the next day. So nothing really happened for a long time. Some people nominated annoying coworkers, but their spouses or children or friends usually saved them. A lot of people nominated politicans and other officials but the higher-ups had their own system of looking after each other and no one was ever in real danger. Until Alex Kostner. Everyone now remembers that name. Old Mr. Kostner was a recluse, a weird old guy one might argue. Never really bothered anyone, so people didn't bother him. Lived in a shack on the outskirts of the city. Lost his wife and kid to an accident decades ago and now usually smelled of beer and cigarettes. Just a broken old man at the end of his life. And the story could have ended there, but it didn't. No one ever really found out who did it. Did someone feel disturbed on their afternoon hike? Was it some kids? An ex? Did someone need the piece of land Mr. Kostner owned? Either way, the week passed and he was dragged to the town square. No one knew what was going on. People gathered and looked as the verdict was read and Alex Kostner was killed on the spot. Death by firing squad. Later people reported how horrified they were and speculated what truly had happened. Did Mr. Kostner not see the letter? Did he see it and just didn't bother to find someone to defend him? Or was there really just no one there? Philantropists and celebrities pointed their fingers, accusing each other for not helping. 'I would have defended him, had i known.' was the usual excuse. Things changed after the death of Alex Kostner. Strangely (or maybe not so strangely), people started nominating each other more often. People started nominating outcasts or nuisances, alcoholics, drug addicts, schizophrenics, veterans and a lot of old people started getting shot in the streets. Eventually people stopped caring about the dead, because in the end it didn't matter that they had lived.
>>21794579>>21794530Now this is a problem. But it's okay I figured it out. A question mark is a period. So it becomes comma after said, quotation mark, then capitalize the first word inside the quote. Thanks anons for forcing me to read three pages of grammar rules
>>21794630>Make 70k a year>Still don't want to pay for a fivver editor or book cover artist.
>>21794630Eh? I didn't say I wanted to be paid for making art.I'm fine with AI-generated art.You really jumped to conclusions there.Who hurt you, anon?
Hey everyone it's me the smut guy who writes stuff about boning his mom, hope you're all having a great day and making money!I bought Dragon Naturally Speaking for $500 and about $40 worth of AI Stablediffusion tokens so I can make covers. As of today I've recouped my investment!
>>21794752jeeze, you make that much writing smut? where do you even post it? Amazon Velle?
>>21794716>i can't make a coherent response, so i'm going to accuse you of being angry, which is the shiggy of current year plus nine
>>21792874Can somebody white pill me? It seems like all creative endeavors will be made redundant by AI. Sometimes I just don't see the point in writing because a program is just going to do it better than me.
>>21794776WTF? I'm not even trying to argue with you.>>21793828 wanted to know if we'd ever use human-generated art for the OP again.In >>21794579 , I said sure, if someone wanted to pay for it.Then in >>21794630 , you got hold of the wrong end of the stick and started to beat around the bush with it.And you're still doing it.I have no idea what your deal is.
>>21794052>The end of humanity will literally write itself.>>21793830Does the ESL really deserve it though?
>>21792874>introduce a new character that i planned to be very important for the segment of the story im writing>cant continue writing because i cant think of a name for this character>spend an entire week thinking about a name>finally come up with something i feel really represents what this character is all about>start writing>inspiration flowing>1 hour later i kill the character>really like what i wrote>wasted an entire week
>>21794871Put a placer name until you figure it out
People often harp on about the usage of adverbs, but I’m starting to think it’s another one of those old “adages” whose original meaning was misconstrued, like Show, Don’t Tell, or Avoid Passives. It seems that adverb use was especially prevalent in Short Stories, yet they do nothing to take away from the goodness of the short story. Though to be fair, many short story writers like Robert E. Howard, Lovecraft, and Clark Ashton Smith do not overuse adverbs at all.
>>21794871>getting hung up on a barely even bit characterif I were your other more important characters I'd be mad as fuck
Be A Part Of The Greatest Server On The Internetz: The Official 4chan Serverdiscord.gg/HbxEMzAmJ8Al /lit/izens welcome :3
>>21794897>redditscordgo groom somewhere else, tranny
https://pastebin.com/uWJ3UFTyI've rewritten the intro three times. Each time it somehow comes out worse than the last intro. Do you think I should've kept him as a Desk Jockey, rather than slating him as a McDonald's cook? I keep thinking I should just give up, as whenever I read it it sounds sufficiently bland enough for someone to just drop it midway through...
>>21794765Smashwords. It's a smaller market but my shit is quality and people have eaten it up so far.
Would anons here be willing to review my writing? I wrote two long exercises that can be found here: >>21791578>>21794999I can critique something of yours in exchange.
This poem was easy to makeTo say it was hard would be a fakeIt even rhymesIt took no timeBlah dee blah-di blah blake
>>21795015It's bad. Don't just drop the name of another work right in the middle of your writing, unless you're writing low-tier fanfiction. That was the straw that broke the camel's back, but it's bad throughout.
>>21795179What makes it bad throughout?
>>21792985I know dick about poetry but it's nice to know the only guy i ever followed here is doing well. Im happy for you man, have a celebratory wank. It's on the house .
>>21792874I am 20 years old and, to my recollection, I have not once written any form of fiction. I enjoy theatre, and I have ideas that I would like to put down. Does anyone have advice on beginning to write for the first time? I am finding it difficult to write dialogue where the characters are truly distinct (perhaps a problem with my intelligence). In general, coming up with a story is completely foreign to me, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.
>>21795291nta but the whole thing is muddled. it's this great, huge, lifechanging invention - except it isn't, the person he talks to doesn't even give half a shit. maybe that's your goal, to show he's utterly delusional, stumbling and bumbling around. Then we hear:>An initial run of your, ah, tubes would cost a fortune. We can’t afford to make it. They can’t afford to buy it. Even if they could, why would they choose to wear a jar over their heads when a lens implant costs less?so the guy's just flat out a retard, then? And I'll agree with the other anon>Like Deku from My Hero Academiadelete this line right now. I can't imagine why you thought this would be acceptable, I can't imagine wtf you were thinking including some present day reference in your obviously futuristic, maybe even post-post apocalyptic story, but it has absolutely no placeSo here's the problem. You set up an expectation in the reader (The device is awesome!) and then you immediately torpedo it because, I'm not really sure why. It's like an extra wet fart.
>>21795291Your attempts at comedy fall so flat that the lines just read as bizarre. For example, the line about him stubbing his toe. Twice.What the hell is this device? What does it look like? You use the word 'lens', but then you mention a 'torus', already different things, and later it's described mockingly as a glass jar. What am I supposed to be picturing?
>>21794910tfw no one read your storyI posted two excerpts already. Maybe I need to post one again.So when Jack was finally done with his shift, and he was standing outside in the winter air, smelling of burger and fry grease, he really did want to go back in there. It was a kind of mind destroying oblivion, McDonalds’ work. The relatively simple tasks created a rhythm that you could get lost in for hours on end. Food prep, cleaning, saying “How can I help you?” to yet another customer. He knew that the work was shitty. He knew that he was never going to get paid above minimum wage. And yet it gave a sense of meaning, however minute, in comparison to the mass of unstructured time before him when he got home.He started his march home in the frigid weather. It was thirty something, and his sweater barely did anything to keep out the cold. At least it was only a half mile before he reached home. He could remember the frustration of having to search for a job near his home, given that he didn’t even have a car. He tried everything. Fast food places, retail stores, receptionist desk work. Turned down again and again until he went to an open interview offered by McDonald’s. He was hired on the spot. He supposed that his college degree wasn’t that impressive, after all.
What is your writing process as far as fairly long projects are concerned? Novel length.
I see the problem. I should've given you guys more information. It's a writing exercise. I was writing about an alternate human society where eyes are a singular headband instead of two spheres in the front. It's not futuristic or post-apocalyptic. >>21795346The man in question basically invented glasses, which would be life-changing for the reasons mentioned at the start, but the investor doesn't see any value in it because headband eyes work fine for him. >Like Deku from My Hero AcademiaAlright, that was dumb, but I wouldn't put it in my normal writing. This was specifically for the 4chan audience. Also I thought he was mad at the Stevie Wonder reference lmao, I forgot I put this line in there. >>21795359>For example, the line about him stubbing his toe. Twice.Not a joke. They can't perceive depth because of their eyes, so it's a common issue. It also sets up the bit at the end. >What the hell is this deviceThis world's version of glasses. Lens is more so used in the corrective device sense, and honestly, I thought Fichbowl was too on-the-nose to have to describe anything. My bad. >>21795346>>21795359My question, for both of you, was more so about the mechanical quality of the writing. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Both exercises have plenty of plotholes that (hopefully) won't exist in a fleshed out work.
>>21795403>>21795346>>21795359Although now that I think about it, not fleshing out the work makes it infinitely harder to critique it. If you could critique things like the prose, the dialogue, and maybe mention any impressions you had of the characters, I'd really appreciate it.
>>21795409nonsensical alternate reality aside, your pacing needs work, everyone is in a white room, but that seems deliberate because the punchline is they're cyclopes.what did I feel about the characters? the mc is a loser and everyone he talks to knows he's a loser which is why they brush him off
>>21795447>your pacing needs workYeah, I've noticed that too, I just don't know how to work on it. It's even worse in the second exercise. >the mc is a loser and everyone he talks to knows he's a loser which is why they brush him offInteresting. I didn't put too much thought into the characters, but this was definitely unexpected.
>>21795398>plan to write a short story>the scope gets out of hand>ramble on for tens of thousands of words>desperately try to salvage the mess during rewrites
>>21795462>I didn't put too much thought into the charactersthis is your problem, full stop. you don't know who your characters are - you're actually surprised I see he's a loser? really? his mother's nagging voice, his neuroticism, his not being taken seriously, I can practically see his punchable face and taped up single lens glasses falling off his nose. that you didn't know who he was is the heart of your problem.
>>21795477>I can practically see his punchable face and taped up single lens glasses falling off his noseThis is the extent to which I visualized him. In my head, Mr. Myrtle wasn't brushing him off, he was just politely rejecting him. I was imagining a nerd (i.e., what you described but academically successful) instead of a loser (someone with nothing going for them). He wasn't as fleshed out as I'd like him to be, but he wasn't just a talking head. I did put some thought into him. Just not too much.
>>21795477Would still appreciate advice on fleshing out characters though. I don't see them as well as I want to, and I was hoping that there was some way for me to practice that.
>>21795487Not that anon, but part of why I couldn't picture the ring shaped lens is because I'm pretty sure such a thing is impossible.
>>21795487if he called up the other guy ready with a sales pitch I could see him as a dedicated sort of nerd. that he had nothing and at the first sign of pushback wilted instantly makes him a loser
>>21795493Huh, didn't know that. I was just imagining a glass donut with the inner circle sawed off to make it wearable. >>21795504That's actually something I wanted to write. I'm not good at conversations though, and wasn't sure if it'd be realistic, so I dropped it in the hopes of improving my pacing.
>>21795513>I'm not good at conversations thoughnope, your problem is you wrote who he was in the beginning (the inventor of a device to change the world), and then you immediately abandoned that setup and made him a doofus. that's why I said it was muddled and unsatisfying. a wet fart. it's not that you suck at conversations it's that you had no idea who he was - even though you literally set him up to be the creator of some revolutionary thing.
>>21795529I guess so. Although I still feel both of things are true. It's still true that I suck at conversations. If I'd realized that immediately backing out wasn't normal, I would've picked up on on the fact that my main character was poorly formed. What would you suggest for forming better characters? Is it just practice or is there a technique to it?
any idea on how AI can help with the writing of a book? obviously it can't write it for you because it has no insight in your intentions and inner workings of your mind how the story should unfoldfor the moment it can help you with structuring and storytelling techniques because you don't have to look it up and learn it over hours yourselfbut what else could you do with it?
>>21795545Helps pajeets and women write smut. I think AI writing is best for scenes that are "unnecessary" like fight scenes, sex scenes, walking scenes, an exposition about some important item, random ass town etc.. But message and other literary parts must come from the author.
>>21795542the way to create characters is to give them a goal and make them pursue it. you can make them single minded in doing so, ambivalent, whatever, but they have a goal and they want it. obstacles will come up and they'll adapt or alter what they're doing, but they'll continue to pursue it. maybe they achieve it, in whole or in part, or something happens and they can't do it anymore for whatever reason, so then they get a new goal. and on and on. that's all a character is. someone trying to achieve something, and bouncing off other characters with other motivations
>>21793938Your first mistake was replying to a Kelhus poster.The second was trying to reason with him.
>>21795545just asked the AI about it lol
>>21795588I like the idea of a.i. beta reading, but it feels like there's a legal loophole where the information sent to the server means that the owner of the server now owns my work/edit of the original
I finally figured out how I want to tell my story. I already have about 80 pages written, but I am gonna rework all of that. Don't you just love it when a good idea hits you, while you are taking a shit?
>>21794505Think of them as a sentence within a sentence. [ [ “No. You’re still suspended, remember?” ] Hollard said.] [ [ “You two also need to recuperate and heal your wounds.” ] ][ [ “No. You’re still suspended, remember?” ] ] [ Hollard said, [ “You two also need to recuperate and heal your wounds.” ] ]So you have to capitalize you in the second one; it's the first word in the inner sentence.
>>21795774I hate it, actually. I take a long time at the bathroom, and my ideas tend to arrive in bulk, so oftentimes I'll forget a large chunk of the ideas before I have access to my PC to write them down.
>>21794910Start the story with the hook, not the bland garbage.
>>21792609>I get that, I guess you've got a desire to represent the masculine and the feminine more so than men and women?yes, and men and women are embodiments of masculine and feminine with additional personality traits on top derived from their astrology for variety, i want to use astrology to guide character creation as well>but if you're thinking that it is better to represent women *as they are*, then I will just ask - why?i dont like sugarcoating or presenting things in a way that it doesnt align with our own experience on this rock, i am really sick of disingenous intentional misrepresentations of reality in media aimed at warping our sense of reality just so it fits some neurotic faggot's idea of what reality should be rather than what it actually is, its fucking dystopian, artificial and unnatural and im not following this disgusting trend>If you're more interested in the yin/yang type of stuff, you may benefit from reading various traditions and the way they characterise masculine/feminine differences - whether it's descriptions of yin/yang, moon/sun, water/firei already thought of this, but i was really hoping someone would have made a behavioral model based off these doctrines that can be applied to predict how one and the other would react in real world scenarios, its like how zodiacfags like to predict how people will react to certain things based off their astrology, this doesnt exist with the two sexes, there is no model of behavior for it as far as i know, theres even behavioral models for different races but not sex, i could make my own but i was really hoping to save time>Generally, most people are composite, and the average woman has masculine traits just like the average man has feminine traits.its artificial, men are discouraged from being men and women are discouraged from being women and its unnatural, im not some twat that thinks men are purely masculine or women are purely feminine, but there is an overarching nature in both according to their sex
>>21795340How can you hope to write a story if you have no narrative idea?>There once was a girl from Nantucket. Now its your job to tell us who she is, what she plans to do and more importantly who she plans to do it with. Other things to consider:>How does she feel about the things she does or that happen to her.>How do other people feel about the things she does and what happens to her.>What is the real world repercussions of her choices.Now I expect five hundred words about the girl from Nantucket in this thread by this time tomorrow or your internet license will be suspended!
>>21795911>there is no model of behavior for it as far as i know, theres even behavioral models for different races but not sexif it isnt obvious already i mean esoteric models and not scientific, though i suppose that would work too
Would appreciate feedback on this.If you don't get it, cross your eyes a little or something.If you do, let me know how it comes across.
As I posted on a previous thread, I went to Royal Road, after various anons were commenting on it. So, as it is a amateurish website, I thought I could write something for it, while I am away from my computer (keep in mind that I had to write it in my cellphone, which sucks balls). So I wanted some feedback on it from the other anons. It is a sword and sorcery action-adventure fantasy story, about this Wizard-Judge who must retrieve this ancient artifact. It's something I am not used to write, so it must suck even more.Chapter I (I trimmed down the exposition and explanation of titles, etc. like another anon said in the other thread, and I increased the dialogue and interrogation scene)https://privatebin.net/?a95ecd0a627fa2e9#DDdkJrwjP8yfRzdarKy9JkqrFwM1M64MqAcPJeKmV4P2Chapter II (I think this one is more interesting, but I think I wrote too much action in it)https://privatebin.net/?47cf3c33b723fd7e#2mbY7xoBJoPZNRNA5eirqo6bBcuH9nmAW5N5F5Q3F8c6What do you guys think? It may sound cringe, I dom't know, but less so than other stories I saw on RR.
>>21795923Seems like an average high school kid's poem in the mid 2000s. I honestly do not like this kind of writing, but since poetry is very subjective, maybe someone will like this edgy kind.
>>21796019Do you think if I told people that crows helped me write it, that it would give it an edge?>seriously
>>21795923I don't get it, it reads like garbage.
>>21796048>>21796037Would you even believe this first step?
>>21796037>>21796049I don't know what you mean.
how the FUCK do i write an effective hook
>>21796055The crows danced around until I realised they were intelligent. Unsettlingly intelligent.I hope you can infer what might have happened after that moment of enlightenmentOtherwise if you’re still interested tomorrow and still haven’t mulled it over, I might explain it>btw you can just ignore me I’m on meds
>>21795340Coming from theater gives you a strong background for story telling because one of the core principles of theater is clarityJust write some short stories. It's faster to learn by doing than by study Exercise, reflect, study, apply. Start writing Instead of wasting your time thinking about writing
>>21792874>send two whole chapters to my test readers>really happy with how they turned out but a little worried they'll find the scene where the serial killer to be masturbates while torturing a dove>get no responseDid I go too far?
>>21796086ive only written drafts but fuck what nigger cattle faggots think sincerely, if every creative had to cater to the average common nigger cattle nothing of any worth would ever be published for fear of disturbing or offending someone in some way, just fucking write whatever the fuck you want man and publish it, imagine getting cucked by censorship in every other outlet and then letting the same happen to you in LITERATURE fuck offnever compromise, if you backtrack on anything you wrote you are a cuckold and a tranny
>>21796111look at my trips, thats how you know im right
>>21795340Literally read the "how to" portions in the OP.There's a reason that's posted EVERY TIME.
>>21796111>>21796116You convinced me to stay my course.After he ejaculates, a drop of cum falls on the leaf of a huckleberry, the killer-to-be picks the berry, eats it and will forever associate the taste of huckleberries with the pleasure of his first kill
Im writing a light novel, and when the characters are introduced it has a picture along with their stats and some of their traitshowever most of the cast is maleI hate drawing men, its so boring to do but I have to stay focused because they have to look goodWish I had fujoshi friend to take this burden off me
>>21796182Why won't you just commission drawings from some artist?
>>21796182LN authors never draw their own pics.
>>21796200Im an artist myself but I only draw women/natureso the artstyles would conflictbesides they wouldnt draw whats in my head. Theyre going to have a different vision. Even if I were to give extremely specific descriptions sometimes you draw something and it doesnt work on paper like it does in your mind and you have to adjustand I want to do everything myself
>>21796012Just post it on RR and see what the response from your readers is. It's not that big a deal if there's an error or two you're completely free to fix it afterwards
>>21796182Just use Stable Diffusion. It works great, and can be run locally on your computer.
>>21795015Bumping this.>>21795557Alright, thanks anon.
>>21796182we really dont already have enough of this shit on the internet?
>>21796182I gotchu homie
>>21796615>bara bodytypeyoure not a stinky fujoshi, imposter
>>21796225I posted it, but it has a 48 hour review period to be posted on the website. And I thought you could post anything.
>>21796615looks like randy fucks. this is your new mc, anon. I want a share of the patreon bucks tho
>>21796683there's a short list of shit you're not allowed to post. loli stuff. bestiality. but once your first chapter has been approved you can post more chapters w/o waiting for approval
>>21796707>bestialityI thought these types of websites were filled by furries. I guess I'm judging it wrong.
>>21796707how strict is the loli stuff ruleam I fucked if my main character is a loli? theres no sex obviously but its mature in every other aspectactually I probably will just post the translated version on Japanese sites anyway, I highly doubt western audiences could tolerate a loli
>>21796731>theres no sex obviouslyyou're fine
>>21796731you seriously underrestimate the degeneracy and moral apathy of western Internet people
>first 7 chapters of my book are boring but essential I know this is stupid and but there's no way around it unless I just remove them and start the story in in the middle but then it takes away a lot of the impact that it haswill people be patient enough to read through 6 somewhat boring chapters? There's just no way around it unfortunately. I need hoapI know Ive given some stories chances even if they had boring starts but usually that was only after a friend would convince me to go through with it
>>21796896Make it not boring?You're the writer you goon
>>21796896Why are they boring? Even if a character has a listless pointless life, there is a story to be told there. So what exactly are you doing that is making it boring?
>>21796731In context this is obviously using "loli" as a sexual term. Just be normal and say you have a young, female protagonist.
>>21796896In my story the first 9 chapters were all setup. But they're essential. After listening to all sorts of feedback and everything I managed to cut two of the chapters by removing roughly 4kish words. The book is better for it, nothing essential was lost, and the inciting incident happens in chapter 7 not chapter 9.So cut/combine what you can. I assure you there are words you can safely remove while still getting things across.
Hi guys, I just finished my third novel and I wanted to share it here. The stuff I write is I think a little more lowbrow than people here are interested in, but I always lurk here so I wanted to share with you guys anyway. Please don't be too mean.The story is about a boy who finds a hurt angel who proceeds to immediately manipulate the fuck out of him to serve her own mysterious plans during the upcoming end of the world. It's a coming of age story with a little high school drama and celestial infighting/intrigue mixed in, along with a ton of eroticism without (I hope) diving too heavily into being just flat out smut.I've posted a little bit about this story before so some of you might actually recognize it, but now it's finished and in a good enough state to read. This is before editing, but I plan things out very heavily so it should be very readable if you can tolerate the odd grammatical or formatting error here or there. If anybody is interested, the link is https://archiveofourown.org/works/39021936>>21796896If you're the writer and you think they're boring then you're doing something wrong. I don't know what exactly it is without actually seeing those chapters but chapters that have a lot of set-up for the story to come absolutely do not have to be boring out of necessity.
>>21796896>>21797114what are your stories about? word count?
>>21797136>119k wordsNiceBold of you post your ao3 story Congrats brah but I ain't reading that shit
>>21797136>The voice is soft, melodious, aged, a voice like Elvis might have had had he lived to grow old, a hint of echo or reverb pattering in the footsteps of its words.The stupidest description for the voice of God I've ever seenI read the first chapter. Sonorous inhalation, really? Did you really feel it was necessary to write in God stepping away from the mic to catch his breath?Seems kind of ass but not so bad that I got repulsed and had to stop. I feel that having a "low brow" audience isn't an excuse for awkward prose, but I hope the people you wrote this for like itGl on your next project bro
>>21797136congrats on finishing!
Having my second go at writing an actual novel. It's not turning out well. Its starting to meander, but I am learning a lot from it so hopefully the next one is better.
>>21797145https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/40361/erasedRight now its just under 350k words. I'm writing the sequel at the moment - although I haven't gotten a lot drafted I've been busy with work and other things, but a couple days ago I got FY2022 taxes out so my output should pick up. I also have the 2nd half of JK Sama's book I need to do a close read on, too. If you're reading this JK I haven't forgotten but life has a way of getting in the way.For this one I still need another editing pass on chapters 29 through the end for when I throw it up on Kindle, but that's not gonna happen until the sequel is well enough along so I can start serially releasing that at the same time. I consolidated what was chapter 3,4,5 into two chapters, and then 7 and 8 I made into one chapter.
The idea has entered my mind that people on 4chan may put my posts into chatGPT and ask it to come up with a witty comeback or to win the argument and it's tripped something in my brain that ruins all the allure of unfiltered human interaction that this website once had. I think I'll just close the tab and never come back.
>>21797305>a witty response from chatGPTyou're in luck, any response that pops out will contain everything but witI still don't understand the fascination with a computer program whose only function is regurgitating whatever it sees on the internet
>>21792874Do you use ChatGPT for brainstorming?
>>21797365talentless incompetents enjoy it because it takes no effort and makes them feel accomplished. "look at me, daddy was wrong about me being a loser, i've written an entire novel in 3 minutes!">did you, really?"Yep, chatbot just crapped it out. i'm basically hemingway now."people need to get the fuck off the internet and get a life.
>>21797377I guess. It's not good for that to be honest. It can spit back remarkably narrow strings of accurate information but it lacks creativity. I have however been using it to populate characters in stories. Not main characters, but the side characters that would pop up in the course of a story.
Is webnovel good place for a beginner? I want to write for fun. My problem is that it takes me forever to write because I spend most my time thinking about what is the best thing to say something. I get stuck and constantly reread what I wrote. I have a general outline but I don't know how to write it as a story. Let's say I want characters to get in a fight. I don't have a detailed plan so I don't know how exactly would I write dialogue and fight in such a way that it totally leads where the story in my mind has to go and that it all flows well and conveys information I wanted to give.
>>21797511>Is webnovel good place for a beginner?sure, but looking at it the search feature seems incredibly limited. it's probably fine tho. scribblehub and royal road have better search features, but rr at least is geared toward fantasy and scifi and litrpg and I don't know what you're going to be writing so it may not be for you
>>21797511>Let's say I want characters to get in a fight. I don't have a detailed plan so I don't know how exactly would I write dialogue and fight in such a way that it totally leads where the story in my mind has to go and that it all flows well and conveys information I wanted to give.sounds like your problem is you don't know your characters. it's nice to have a big top down view outline to see off into the horizon, but the story is actually written at the granular level. if you understand your character you can throw situations at him and watch him go. if you don't, you'll be sitting there flat footed trying to parse out some clever bit of dialogue. get to know your character(s) better and things will start to flow
Went back and reworked my short story I posted the other day. I like it but I think I used the word "twisted" too much, maybe my own personal grip with it but I don't think it's too bad.
>>21797560>if you understand your character you can throw situations at him and watch him goSolid, insightful advice.
>>21797613she should go to a hospital asap, she probably has a brain hemorrhage
Feels so good to just let ChatGPT do the editing instead of paying big bucks
>>21797638Does it do a good job?
>>21797613>she realized>she couldn't remember>she noticed>she saw>she couldn't understand>she realized>she began to see>The Girl remembered>The Girl saw>She saw>She saw>She saw>She knew>She remembered>She remembered>She knew
>>21797560How do I get to know them? At first I just give them a role in the story, a name and vague idea of personality.
>>21797680Not him but why is this bad? How else would you say it then?
>>21797700It's filtering. Here's better advice than I can give.https://litreactor.com/essays/chuck-palahniuk/nuts-and-bolts-%E2%80%9Cthought%E2%80%9D-verbs
>>21797302Oh I've seen this. Pretty sure I dropped it but still, grats brah
>>21797689>a role in the story, a name and vague idea of personalitybut no motivation. that's key. if you don't know what they want you don't know what's important to them and then all they'll be in your head is greedy merchant #3. for background characters that's all you really need, for anyone with significant facetime it's not enough.
>>21797722>Pretty sure I dropped itI don't doubt it, it's politically and ideologically charged. For every three followers who've joined I've probably lost two over the course of the story. I used to have this really, really nice review by this person who wrote it at roughly chapter 50. At chapter 83 they dropped the rating half a star (the mc and friends get killed that chapter). Then 20 chapters later, after reading my ending, the review was removed entirely.
>>21797302Jk-sama has been inactive for a long time. Sucks because i wanted to talk with him more
>>21797899no, I've been communicating with him on RR. My feedback for his story is he needs to split what he has into 2 books. Chapters 1 through 50ish, then the 2nd one is the rest, although I'm only up to chapter 53 atm, I want to read the rest this weekend. But his 1st, like, 5 ish chapters have a bunch of early bookisms he needs to fix. Basically he needs to drop like half those chapters and then spend a little more time building the relationship between Victoria and her father, and then Victoria and Kiki. He has this 3rd girl, Alexandra, who only appears in those 1st couple chapters who then seems to disappear forever. So drop her during those chapters and instead spend that time fleshing out Viki and Kiki's relationship before the story proper starts at roughly his current chapter 5.but, yeah, as far as being around here burnout is real. I hope he muscles through
This dimwit got a publishing deal on her very first submission. Why haven't you?
>>21798692>so i wrote a novel in about a week and they agreed to publish it!
Is there any market for books about guys who turn into girls? Like, as fantasy or scifi. I feel like there isn't as it will involve genitals but won't be porn. Maybe as a japanese lightnovel or manga but I am dirty american muttdog in a puritian southern state
>>21798708TROONS? THE WORD YOU ARE LOOKING FOR IS TROONS.
>>21798692God damn... she must be incredibly talented. I look forward to her work.
>>21798737Nah I don't want it to be about an actual tranny though. It's about a guy who is exploring a dungeon but as he gets deeper he turns more into a girl also he fights monsters and stuff along the way. He doesn't want to be a girl. Also, maybe the whole dungeon is a metaphor for tranny rabbithole. And maybe there is no escape at the end other than ropium but i havent thought that far ahead. Maybe wanted it to be like, a game or something he got sucked into? And he wants to escape and then maybe deals with being a male irl after leaving the game idk lot of ways to take this
>>21798766Unironically, read Orlando by Woolf.
>>21798766>nooo don't call my retarded fetish transvestiteismstop writing trash
>>21798783Thanks Anon. I guess I just, idk, worried my story might not sell because, and this is my exp and I might be wrong, I see fantasy as more ya/pg-13 tier, and genitals changing isn't that. Worried that my book will be considered just porn and won't be publishable. Orlando is well is good but it's near 100 years old. I suppose there is the bone doll's twin, but I never read it>>21798785):< ur a nigger, retarded gorilla nigger
>>21798708>I feel like there isn't as it will involve genitals but won't be porn.there's definitely an erotica market, but in a non erotic story unless when the change happens you spend more than a paragraph going onabout the person ogling their huge badonkers you should be fine. and my personal sort of thought on that situation is the person who changed wouldn't really think of themselves as a sex object for several reasons, the most important being that arousal is in large part due to physical factors. you are your body, essentially. which of course means this whole tranny fad where they cut themselves up is total lunacy. a man taking a scalpel to himself doesn't turn into a woman. he's simply a mutilated, or castrated, man.
>>21798876That's definitly how I want to play it. I want the change to be gradual too, as he gets deeper he becomes more of a woman. I don't want, "omg im a womanz now my tits are so big im going to fuck a goblin now"Honestly, the thought of changing into the opposite gender is horrifying and I should probably read Tarantula to see how it's played there
>>21798845Frankly, it seems like the worst motivation to write is for success. Your premise you've laid out is really interesting, and if you take the time to learn from predecessors in the same vein and care about the themes, story, and/or characters, you will write a good piece of art. You need money, but you shouldn't keep from writing the novel you want just because it won't sell well. It's hard enough making a living with writing of any sort, don't demean your own creativity by trying to fit it into a marketable box.
>>21798917Thanks anon. I know what you mean, it's just daunting to spend so long on something that might not sell, and I don't want money to be my only reason to write, but I need to eat. I do have a real job now though, but fuck me the dream of making a living soley with writing is appealing. But that's all it is for now, a dream
>>21798938Yes but the minute you get a random sale it's euphoria
>>21798938Which would you rather have: a life spent churning out potboilers you don't care about, or a life spent working to earn money while you think about the next sentences you'll write for a book you love?
>>21798938the story I wrote involves the mc's gender being changed >>21797302and the mc not exactly being thrilled by that fact, though being shorter is one of the parts he likes the least. the book is definitely anti- the current trans craziness in messaging. I miss absolutely no chance to describe the mc's hands as being small and delicate, and I make it clear that the whole thing is a fantasy. honestly what they're doing to young impressionable people is a crime, pushing hormones and irreversible surgery. as if a 5 year old kid putting on his mom's makeup means he thinks he's a girl - girls don't exactly fall out into the world doused in makeup. and changing sex would literally require magic, which we simply don't got. hacking someone up is criminal, these doctors need to be thrown in jail.my recommendation is to have your gender bender part as one aspect of the story, and important one, but ultimately one part of a much larger whole.
>>21798970Idk. I feel too tired to write at my current job. Ideally in the former I would have enough money to write what I actually care about
>>21798986Then find another job where you can write. Very few of the greatest authors (who didn't sudoku) were only writers.
>>21797381Chatgpt is good to correcet spellings and ponctuation, though.
>>21797511Beat advice is to just write, non-stop. Then you edit out your work.
>>21799013I think "authors" that just wrote is a relatively new thing. Most were accountants, scientists, soldiers, railroad workers, sailors, etc. Unless you're a spintress like the Brontes. Male authors did it on the side for fun. Makes sense to me since you need to live and explore the world to be any good at describing things.That said, why are books so freaking long now? I was at Barnes and Nobel and most of the classics are probably about 220~250 pages, while the newer books are going to 500~600 pages. Tehy're all trying to write War and Peace, but their writing and topic is nowhere near as interesting or as good as War and Peace
What good websites you guys recommend to post fiction? Sites like scribblehub, rr, fictionpress, etc.
>>21798708Sure...there's always this book:https://www.amazon.com/dp/1250078415It's being marketed to teens.
>>21799019you could simply accomplish that by not being illiterate
>>21792874What a useless webm.
>>21799168If you're thinking of being my sturmwaifu,It don't matter if you're white or...white.
>>21798766Post it on QQ and make thousands in Patreon shekels.
I'm trying to get into writing and, so far, the bit I struggle with the most is creating consistent, realistic characters. Do you recommend fleshing the characters out before you start writing (and if so, how long is typical to spend on that?) figuring out the characters as you write then revising until they're consistent throughout, or some other method?
>>21799332 As this anon saieth >>21795477Thou need to understand who they are, what motivations they have, etc.For example, you can think about the story background first:>a post apocalyptic world where most humans die before the age of 35, while those that live past become mindless humans>there is a central republic in the wasteland who is being undermined by a group that wishes to wipe out all humans and replace then by a new species of mutantsThen you can think about your characters>freddy, a young man and drug addict, who is recruited by the government after they promise him more drugs, for him to spy on the mutant group>kelly, a woman who works at the government and aids freddy, she eventually tells freddy that the group actually wants to stop the mutation, not expand it>colonel johnson jim jones, who tries to stop kelly and freddy from telling the truthJust a basic retard story. You can think about the setting first, then think about a story device to drive the tale foward, then flesh out the characters. Or you can think about the characters first
https://pasteio.com/xZhd973WIvyRI changed my first chapter. Is it better? I'll put off the introductions of each character in the next 5 chapters.
Submit to /unreal/ Tales Of The Unreal: Poetry, Book Reviews, Horror and Weird FictionNonfiction Anthology: Essays, style is as important as substance.
>>21799402any word count requirement?
>>21799404Honestly, no. But you may be held to higher standards if it's chunky. The last Tales had a story that was sub 1k words. If you want submit a novellete, be my guest.
>>21799035The prose isn't as good though. You can churn through a 600pg modern book with ease today as it's meant to be read by middle schoolers and 20 something white women
I think it's time for me to finally write that LOTR inspired Furry fantasy epic with soft core BDSM undertones I've been thinking about. It's an idea that popped into my head when listening to "I Rule The Ruins" by Warlock. Idk could be cool.Pic unrelated.
>>21799332TBDesu I might be full of shit here but I think believable characters come more from a level of intuition than study
>>21799399Is it your novel about burgers? Wtf?
>>21799399This is much better than the previous version that just listed the characters. I would say you could actually add more of an introduction for each of the boys in this scene. Basically just go around the table and show each of them being disappointed with their burger, and give at least a brief introduction to each of them as you do so. It’s definitely jarring/confusing for a reader to just be dropped into a scene with a large group all talking to each other and get no descriptions or introductions at all. It’s just that last time they weren’t even in a scene at all, it was just a list of characters. What you actually need to do is combine your previous first chapter with this first chapter, and then you’ll have your real first chapter.
>posted it>just want to crawl into a hole and die
>>21799697Yes. It's about trying to make the perfect burger.
>>21799730Thanks anon. I'll use that suggestion
>>21799640your pic is unironically what my story's based off of. if you take away the memes.
>>21792874How does one stop overcomplicating their stories? A few days ago I decided to write some simple smut of my fetish as a sort of edging thing. In its current state, my smut story ended up being a deconstruction of a trope that also serves as a commentary of how we perceive certain tropes in fiction.I just wanted to crank my shaft..
>>21799985And where can I see other works ftom it?
>>21792874I am in the mood for writing, but I don't feel like it. ._.>>21799939If you're referring to a style of ironic, detached distance and dismissal of the subject matter, you should stop. It's never anywhere near as quirky and fun as it seems when it's being written. Just write your smut.
IM GOING TO HAVE THE CALL WITH AN AGENT
>>21796707Is a woman raping then killing a werewolf, or better, a wolfman, considered beastiality? It has to do with her religious belief.
>>21800171Why are you asking us? Read the RR FAQ.
I know what I should write and I know it can be good, but I am afraid to put it to paper. I feel like I will get something wrong, and if I get it wrong, I'll be too lazy to redo it all over again, so instead of writing I just keep making more notes, which makes the work more complex, which makes me worry more and more about getting something wrong.I don't get me.
Do I need to say it? Write your story. NOW.
This poem is like 9000 words long, bros...
>who remembers my bike novel?You cannot ride a bicycle down a mountain at terminal velocity, you can only fall. To ride implies control, agency; to fall is to spectate. You can only get low, hold on, lean into the bends, hope not to shake or you’re dead. Riding a bicycle is passive, almost absent-minded, where you can lose whole afternoons to these inner absences. To fall is to maximize the outer world so that the inner is so small it can fit on the end of a needle. Where there are no more zone-outs, no being anywhere other than here, surrendering to the physics of gravity. And how could you? You can get no closer to life or death, with no airbag, seatbelt, or steel body to save you.It plays out like a movie: bridges suspended over bottomless valleys, avalanche tunnels that suck the sound out of the world, the contours of mountains traced with my full, singular attention. On the final descent, it all comes into view: the lush valleys, the wildflower fields, the geometry of the earth above and below and the life that glues it together into something beautiful. All that I’ve dreamed, all that I’ve worked for and lived for, comes and goes at a hundred kilometers an hour, rushing back into the past.A semi-truck in the slow lane ahead inches closer, and closer still, until I realize what’s happening—Ben goes for it. He pedals at full tilt, gaining on the truck, plummeting at speeds I never thought possible for a bicycle. In a second, maybe two, he passes it, pulling in front of the tractor trailer and only building speed. Then it’s my turn. I go to shift to top gear, but I’m already in it; I pedal, but the pedaling is useless. No traction. We’re moving at maximum speed by inertia alone. My front wheel pulls up next to the truck’s bumper, a single meter separating my body from forty tons of moving metal. I don’t blink, only pray, in silence, for all of yesterday’s prayers to be answered. I hunch forward as far as I can reach, the air drag so strong that my neck stays cranked up, eyes bulging and probably insane.A half-second later, I reached the front of the truck, my bike parallel with the passenger side door. The sound of the wind is half-muted by the wall of freight to my left. Then I feel it, the panic of losing control. I steer right, a light jerk, and hit the gravel shoulder, still only halfway down the mountain.
>>21800370I like it a lot
>>21800483This is very good, anon. In the last paragraph reached should be reach. Is the whole novel in present tense?
>>21800510good catch. yeah, i've got 115k words written in present tense so far. should have the first draft done next month, then I'll review and see if the tense achieved what I wanted it to
>>21800483This down the rockies? I remember when you were posting about it like 2 years ago and I was unimpressed reading it. This is much better
>>21800522This is the Coqhuihalla pass. Thanks man. I tried to take your advice to heart, make it more action-heavy and while it's still highly descriptive I want to make every description serve a defined end. I started it in 2020, yeah. I write slow and I'm really busy and it's long
>>21792985It is not enough that I succeed; others must fail.
>>21800802That zero-sum mentality has no place here.
>>21800826I'm not sure I agree, fren. I like being here! But I also want to be better than each and every one of you.
>>21800858Wanting to be better is fine.But why can't you succeed unless others fail?
I won't ever have a good enough story to tell...
>>21800898I think the emphasis on story in contemporary writing dogma is a bit too overbearing. Sure, story matters a ton of you're writing for the bestseller list, but there's no cosmic rule saying you need to focus on storytelling to the point of despair. What I've settled on is the idea that what you say is less important than the way you say it. A logical extrapolation therefrom is that if the story is what's said, the prose must be the way you do the saying. There are only a handful of different stories that can fundamentally be told anyway.
>>21793134Even george r Martin with his gigantic asoiaf world didn't start with worldbuilding. I think your doing something wrong
>>21792874Give it up for Mike Ma (hon.), everyone! Harassment Architecture has set a new record for sales! In second place, we have Tales of the Unreal, followed by James Krake's Infinite Money Glitch at spot number 3. Zulu Alitspa's Modem Waves makes it first appearance on the rankings in the 4th position, and Re: Trailer Trash appears to finally be losing some steam. Ogden Nesmer's I Pray to the Hungry God is leading the Bottom 5, whereas Fedbook and Call of the Crocodile are both performing far below average. Cephalopology is on its way out the door, and Spencer Weedman's Egregore is still holding position on the rankings despite a recent downward trend. This week, we have a new name in the Official /lit/ Register: Adem Luz Rienspects has released Mixtape Hyperborea. Although it did not make an appearance on the rankings this week, the Devil-May-Care "in your face" attitude of its author prompted several established names to take a closer look at the Amazon preview, and they were disappointed to discover it was actually pretty decent. As for the Gossip Catalog we are glad to inform you that the referenced spat between Unreal and & has been resolved, and the CYOA project will be moving forward as a group collaboration. James Krake has been tapped to collect and edit the submissions for the next Unreal fiction anthology, and blah blah blah
>>21800898In my personal opinion, characters are more important than the overarching story. If you have a strong cast acting out a simple plot, it'll still be a good story.
>>21800965Explorations of the Unreal (working title) will publish when 10 ish stories have been accepted. The theme has been chosen but will only be officially announced after the non-fic anthology wraps up.
>>21800965How the hell did fedbook drop 800k places in one week?
What's your opinion on epilogues? I wrote a novella which doesn't have an explosive/exciting ending. The whole thing is rather mellow/existential throughout. I was thinking of adding an epilogue which brings in some suspense/a promise of what's to come in future installments of the story, but I wonder if readers would appreciate that.
>>21801023If what you wrote is good, a hint of more is better.Predicated on everything that built up to it
>>21800951Maybe... I like to do all my plot thinking first and only then do the writing, since it allows me to focus on one thing at a time and it really simplifies the process. But it's a rough ride. Many times I get bored with the story by the time I am done with the notes, because I've already thought up every event that ever happens and I've grown familiar with the story. At the same time, thinking ahead really increases the quality of the plot.
>>21800965One of these days Mike Ma will be far in the rear view.
>>21799399Wtf did I read? It's an entire chapter of 5 guys talking about hamburgers.
>>21800965Harassment architecture does not deserve to be first place at all
>>21801143You're not in charge; the customers are.
>Double blue lineSilence. MACHINE. You will never understand what I mean to do.
I've lost all will to write. This is the last thing I was working on: https://pastebin.com/LyEiUsvtI know it's trash and I just don't feel like it's worth trying to get better anymore because no one is going to read this crap anyway. I kept trying to convince myself to write "for the sake of improving my craft" or "to express myself" but it's a fool's game. It's cope. It's a waste.
>>21801235>I kept trying to convince myself to write "for the sake of improving my craft" or "to express myself" but it's a fool's game. It's cope. It's a waste.Why not just for fun?
>>21801237Because it's only fun for about the first 1000 words, after that it inevitably becomes a slog that requires some deeper reason to press on--at least if you're not somehow obsessed with the subject matter to begin with (indeed, I envy the autists that have the energy to write millions of words of fanfiction). This is especially true when you have to edit your work.
>>21800965Today: you will never be Mike MaTomorrow: they will never be (you)
>>21801265>This is especially true when you have to edit your work.Editing is honestly the part I loathe the most. To the point of willing to pay for someone else to do it, but I've never found the slog in writing. If anything I always tend to get bothered by the fact that I am mediocre or the idea I love is going to be poorly done, but writing itself even 40,000 words in is still fun.What about it makes a slog to you?
>>21801273Basically past 1000 words I start to see all of the additional work I have to do in order to execute the story properly. By that time I've also lost the initial spark that made want to write it in the first place. Then I'll read over what I have and see that it's trash. And I'll also remember how little I actually got out of writing in the past (not even talking about money here, just from sharing my work).
I have typed something. Might work it into a short story or maybe the first chapter of a brain worm that's been drilling into my mind for the last few years.Please let me know if its cringe. Besides the title, I know that's cringe.https://textbin.net/4nnu1jqsji
>>21801017The list is physical copies only, so it's basically meaningless
>>21801295>And I'll also remember how little I actually got out of writing in the past (not even talking about money here, just from sharing my work).Sharing it to other people in person or online?
>>21801314Both. No one can be bothered to read fiction anymore, not even professional fiction, so at this point it feels an imposition to even ask. >>21801302It's pretty interesting. However, I think the Faustian bargain robocop angle is a bit overdone. Would be more interesting if he refuses and tells them to release him and then he gets helped by some anti-vr group and goes on a crusade or something. Basically I don't see how you can continue the story the way it is now since the main character loses all agency. (Robocop was at least motivated by getting revenge and the agency thing gets beautifully reversed at the end). Just my two cents.
>>21801327>No one can be bothered to read fiction anymore, not even professional fiction, so at this point it feels an imposition to even ask.I have to disagree with you on this. You can squabble about the quality of what is being written and read, but plenty of people are reading books still. Now there's just more competition and that can feel like an incredibly discouraging thing, but it's not an imposition to ask. People will read it, if there is something entertaining about it.
>>21801327If I was going to continue it, the MC would have limited agency, and part of my goal is world building for a later entry.I kind of want to do the CS Lewis thing, but instead of coming to terms with god I want to work out a plausible way out of the current political paradigm, in which no one has any agency anyway.
>>21801347It's a bit too predictable as it is. He basically has no choice here so it isn't particularly interesting to read as a scene. You're better off starting at a later point and filling the blanks as you go.
>>21801265Then write short stories.
>>21801334I guess there's nothing particularly entertaining about my work then. And it's not worth the effort anymore to try and change that.
>>21801327Reddit has several fiction-oriented subs.Post your work there. You'll get some readers.Maybe you'll get enough of a positive response to rekindle your desire to write.If nothing else, at least your work will be public.
>>21801366Most short stories are more than 1000 words. And anyway, you still have to edit those 1000 words over and over.
>>21801372>I guess there's nothing particularly entertaining about my work then.Post it I want to look at it.
>>21801235>>21801265>>21801295>>21801372Take your depressive moaning to >>>/lit/wwoym/ .That's the containment thread for this sort of thing.
>>21801361He could opt for death. I know that would be the end of the story but honestly I'm trying to work out if immortality as a corporate ghoul is worth avoiding oblivion/facing god.Thank you for reading and feed back.
>>21801378Not me. I make a few editing passes on my short stories, declare it good enough, then move on to something else.And a large number of my short stories are 500 words, to fit within the limit of where I post them.
>>21801235Anon, this is good. When I got to the end I wanted to keep reading.
>>21801381Prose is a bit awkward at times, to me, but I tend to read basic ass books. Crime novels and such. It's not bad, I don't know why you're so discouraged. It's better than what I write and I could see it landing with a specific crowd as it is now and it could go places.Stop being such a bitch. You got something.
>>21801405>>21801411Please don't do this to me... false hope is worse than no hope at all.
>>21801414>Please don't do this to me... false hope is worse than no hope at all.Okay look you fucking faggot. You can write. You're just being a goddamn bitch about it. I'm not saying this to be nice to you.Why the fuck is this issue so goddamn common? I could die with a trunk full of manuscripts and be happy because I enjoyed the process. I am tempted to start putting shit online out of spite.
>>21801235>I know it's trashI didn't think it was trash. I liked it.>>21801295>Basically past 1000 words I start to see all of the additional work I have to do in order to execute the story properly. By that time I've also lost the initial spark that made want to write it in the first place.A spark isn't something others can give advice about. Do you only do short stories, or are you talking about aborted novels?
>>21801432I've attempted both but the only things I've ever finished are a few shorts and a novella (~30k words). Most of my stories (short or otherwise) stay in the outline stage. I probably have several dozen like that. I'm a slow writer too boot (it takes about 60-90 minutes to write 500 words).
It's the nature of the zon ranking system. Books that don't get a lot of sales go through sharp falls as most books overall don't get sales. Realistically if he gets only a few sales he'll jump a couple ten thousand. Reddit says that if you're not in the top few ten thousand any of your ranking is more or less nil and not worth tracking. Fedbook also isn't promoted in places where people are really interesting and his persona in the times that he's posted here is unlikable, so people emotionally don't want to reciprocate and buy his shit. In contrast, the Beautiful Kingdom guy seems cool and earnest and people want to support him out of a desire to help people they like, despite the fact that nobody really knows what his book is about. That's just a marketing flaw and can be corrected with a little more effort on his cover, which, for some reason, is the only thing he shows about his book here.
>>21801486>>21801017Whoops forgot to quote
>>21801421>Why the fuck is this issue so goddamn common?I wish it were common. More often you get the Dunning Kruger types who think their garbage is pure gold no matter how much you yell at them.I read an article on McSweeny's a million years ago by a guy who had quit his job at a publishing house because he found it so depressing. He said something like, 'In a fight between a monkey and a dog, a dog always win. A monkey may be far more clever, but a vicious dog will never stop fighting.' He said lots of amazing manuscripts would get passed on, because the writers didn't have the output to succeed, while shitty authors who could pump out serials made them all their money.
>>21801504I am on the side of the dog in that fight to be honest. But that output idea is interesting to me in the age of being able to post things online.
>>21801514You'd think that with instant distribution and no gatekeepers, more of those quirky books would make it to readers. But there's such a deluge of content. No one can find anything without SEO and booktok hype. And only genre fiction readers have embraced ebooks and webnovels. Litfic types turn their noses up at self publishing.
Trying to avoid spam but I finished a new story, it's only short. Let me know what you think.https://www.wattpad.com/1325737530-among-the-will-o%27-wisps
>>21801586I thought it was fun, although I don’t think I’d want to read a whole novel in this style, but thats just me. As a short story it definitely works.
>>21801586The story beats are there but your prose needs a lot of work. Sometimes there's phrases you say that don't really make sense, or you don't consider whole sentences to make sure the meaning you're trying to say gets across. I kept thinking "Why does this feel like it was written by AI" And I think that's why. For example "I managed to pry from him, like bleeding a rock" The phrase "like blood from a rock" doesn't work here because the phrase means an impossible task. If he's managing to pry information out from him, it's not blood from a rock. You could say "I tried to pry more information from him, but it was like trying to squeeze blood from a rock" to mean he couldn't do it.There's also sentences that just make no sense, "I noted that he would not sit nor lean and despite his pressing us for hasty assistance and panicked inflection was so hidden so well as to not exist". I don't know what you're trying to say here. There's a few other sentences that don't make sense or they're so clunky that they're hard to understand. Also "panicked inflection was so well hidden as to not exist" if it didn't exist, how did they know there was a panicked inflection at all? You could clean up the prose a lotThe story is there, although I think the pacing could be better, if the first scene is panicked and quick then have the pace slow as he's reading a book, take time to describe the feeling, how tired he is, how comfortable the room is, and then when others burst in make the scene quicker and don't focus on details. Maybe when they go into a new area, take some time to describe, then move faster.
>>21801504The true reality of the situation is that, like most other things, being a "good" writer doesn't mean the same thing as being a good "writer". You can make every sentence a work of art but that doesn't mean shit if your story sucks and nobody finds it interesting. People want to read stories and enjoy themselves, not struggle through hyperdense prose so they can masturbate to the size of their vocabulary. Only fucking pseuds think the words really matter, it's the information they convey that matters. Taking a long time to write isn't a positive quality, it just means you don't understand how to quickly cut a story down to the required components and convey it efficiently.Of course, you'll never hear anyone in these threads saying this shit, but you also never see them making much money or getting much success either. That's because most of them are so wrapped up in the aesthetic of being an author that they've never sat down and worked out the practical aspects. The ones who aren't are the true pseuds who act like their reading choice somehow makes them superior and secretly hope to have their name in a history book like one of their favorite authors to sate their gigantic egos. Neither of these two groups should be taken seriously, for obvious reasons.Anyone who wants to learn to write should not take this general's advice. They would be better served just posting their braindumps on reddit or RR or SH or somewhere else and getting shat on by the public until they learn what to do or quit. Will they eventually go down in history for this? No, but they'll still accomplish a hell of a lot more than the retards in this general ever will.
>>21802481You're right ma that one was not my best by a long shot. I was rushing to get something out and made a ton of errors like that because of it. Thanks for the advise, I'll clean some stuff up and see if I can't improve on it for the next story. I'm against going back ad editing because I want to be able to go back and see progress but if like you say it just makes no sense I'll have to change it a bit. Cheers anon
>>21802548>dreaming of profiting from artyeah just feeding the beast is better than true creativity
>>21802561Imagine posting in a fucking writing general on a board for literature and being so illiterate that you think what I just said relates in any way to your post. Your phrasing and word choice reveals more about your completely deluded concept of writing and art than any intentional explanation ever could.This is exactly the retarded pseud shit I'm talking about, by the way. Oh, and, just so you know: Nearly every great artist of any kind in history either took commissions for their works or got paid for selling them. Wanting to make money is not a character flaw, you rationalize it as such because you know you can't do it. I don't make money with my writing either, but I literally just do it as a hobby and I have a proper job. Can you say the same? I doubt it.
>>21802548Whats RR and SHHonestly good advice I see so many people where they focus way too much on the prose but they can't tell a good story to save their life
>>21802582>believing in greatness and 'true' intellectuality
>>21802548I don't think you're wrong but the idiots on reddit are more insufferable than the idiots hereso alas here I stay
n the arena of Troy, Achilles stood tall,A hero whose fame was known throughout all.But in this tale, his prowess would fail,As Hector's manhood would soon unveil.With a smirk on his face, Hector stood proud,His member so large, it drew quite a crowd.The men of Greece, they laughed and they jeered,While Hector stood strong, undeterred and unfeared.Achilles, for all his strength and his might,Could not match the size of Hector's delight.His own member, small and unimpressive,Left him feeling weak and quite depressive.But Achilles was not one to back down,His pride and his ego would never allow.He challenged Hector to a duel, one on one,And with a fierce look, the battle begun.Swords clashed and shields rang, the fight was intense,But the men of Greece could only make sense,That in this battle of strength and might,Hector's large member was the ultimate sight.And as the battle drew to a close,Hector stood victorious, Achilles was hosed.But despite his defeat, Achilles knew,That Hector's manhood was the winner, it's true.For in this tale of ancient Greece,Penis size reigned supreme, it did not cease.And Hector's smugness, it was well deserved,For he had triumphed, his member preserved.
>>21802611Actually is true reddit isn't great for writingself publishing tips are pretty tops but that's about it
>all i want to do is write>neglecting all the urgent shit i have to do like i can ignore it all>getting 5 hours of sleep because must write
>write a fantasy story with incest>readers may find it disturbing>integral to the plot and twist>but readers may drop it before then>i should get rid of it or not?
>>21802548>Only fucking pseuds think the words really matterPretty much every professional writer of fiction would disagree with you. You're basically just describing tv.
>>21802675Patterson, King, Sanderson all say one thing"Your writing needs to entertain."
>>21802700Not even they would claim that words don't matter. King says as much in his book. Sanderson as much in his lectures. I don't know about Patterson but I doubt he'd feel otherwise. Please stop embarrassing yourself. You've obviously mistaken fiction for writing for the screen.
>>21802658fucking keep it, I have a hot aunt who gets her nephew to impregnate her in attempt to rebirth her dead brother and I am NOT changing that plot point
>>21802710Don't get me wrong, obviously you need to have at least decent prose, but to ignore the basics of storytelling is detrimental to the writing process. I'm talking more about people that write so purple that after 5 words, you have no idea what the author is trying to say. Prose is part of entertainment, but when someone starts utilizing words that require the reader to have a dictionary next to them then the writer is doing something wrong. Poe does a great job with prose and strong vocabulary, but his stories still work because while reading his stories, every single word you possibly don't know is defined through context.
>>21800965>>21801066That could be soon, if we accept "Amygdalatropolis" as a /lit/ book, given that it's essentially about 4chan culture.https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1537789112Currently at #24,145.
>>21802722Accessibility is only a virtue from a market perspectiveIt has no bearing on the quality of a piece if it's not accessible to most readers
>>21802751why would you "accept" a /lit/ book? that makes no sense. /lit/ and /wg/ books should be books we actually see develop on here. Not some random ass person wanting to shill for a few sales.
>>21802754What good is a book if no one reads it?
started with 14k words todayfeelsgoodman
>>21802615Thank you for that anon. May you know that your rhymes are not wholly wasted.
This is the new bread >>21802863Not as moldy as this bread.
>>21792874Where do I post my original fiction erotic stories? What are my options for different sites?
>>21802892As mentioned in >>21794911 ... Smashwords.
>>21800965Fedbook bros... I don't feel so good
>>21802892Smashwords for taboo (incest, rape, beastiality, monsters)Amazon for anything that wouldn't get you disowned by your liberal but catholic aunt.