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Walk right in edition.

Previous thread: >>20783599

For General Writing
>The Rhetoric of Fiction, Booth
>Writing Fiction: A Guide to Narrative Craft, Burroway
>Steering the Craft, Le Guin
>The Anatomy of Story, Truby
>How Fiction Works, Wood

YouTube Playlists for Writing
>https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTCv6n1whoI23GmdBZienRW0Q0nFCU_ay Robert Butler
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6HOdHEeosc

Technical Aspects of Writing
>Garner's Modern English Usage, Garner
>What Editors Do: The Art, Craft, and Business of Book Editing, Ginna
>Artful Sentences: Syntax as Style, Tufte

Books Analyzing Literature
>Poetics, Aristotle
>Hero With a Thousand Faces, Campbell
>The Art Of Dramatic Writing: Its Basis in the Creative Interpretation of Human Motives, Egri
>The Weekend Novelist, Ray

Note to anyone posting a sample of your writing for critique:
>IF YOU HAVE NOT PERFORMED A CURSORY PROOFREAD, DO NOT EXPECT TO BE TREATED KINDLY. EDIT YOUR WORK FOR SPELLING AND GRAMMAR BEFORE POSTING.

Traditional Publishing
Pros:
>you get to focus mostly on writing
>you must write a proposal to the publishers and sell your story to them
>you make 10-15% profit max, but they also eat all the risk and the costs
>self publishing is basically like running your own company
>you only need to do some simple marketing and reach out to readers
Cons:
>you make 10-15% profit max
>self publishing you make 70%+
>they’ll still require you to do all the leg work of a self published author anyways

Finding Agents
>https://querytracker.net/join.php
>https://www.manuscriptwishlist.com/

Self Publishing Options
>https://archiveofourown.org/
>https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/
>https://www.kobo.com/us/en/p/writinglife
>https://www.royalroad.com/
>https://www.scribblehub.com/
>https://www.wattpad.com/

Self Publishing How-To
>risky, but much more profitable
>you must pay for everything yourself
>if you do, you will spend more time on running a business than writing, but can be worth it
>https://selfpublishingwithdale.com/

Poetry
>This Craft of Verse, Borges
>The Poetry Home Repair Manual, Kooser
>Western Wind: An Introduction to Poetry, Mason

Anime Writing (^・o・^)
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4on26mKakgs
>https://www.wikihow.com/Create-an-Anime-Story

For advertising
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQygKqJVFXg

AI-generated book covers
>https://nightcafe.studio
>https://huggingface.co/spaces/dalle-mini/dalle-mini
>https://app.wombo.art/
>https://penguin.jos.ht/
>https://beta.openai.com/playground

/wg/ Authors and Flash Fiction Pastebin
>https://pastebin.com/ruwQj7xQ

Other forums
>https://reddit.com/r/writing
>https://writing.stackexchange.com/
>>
Day 54 editing
Chapter 73
Worried i might make my one potential reader feel too much.
>>
>>20790023
lmao i don't think you're going to have to worry about things like readers
>>
Anon from last thread here.

is there any good way to organize your file locations and docs? (You know outlines and notes and stuff)

I will keep things clean.
>>
At what point do plots within plots become ridiculous?

For example, here’s a scenario I just came up with:

>Protagonist beats antagonist who has set into motion an extreme period of chaos with his death
>Protagonist later discovers that the antagonist he defeated was a student of another antagonist and everything he did was all part of that other antagonist’s plot
>As the protagonist delves deeper, they come to the realization that said other antagonist’s plot seems incomplete
>It’s because that other antagonist has been plotted against by a seemingly important background character who is in turn the arrangement of the main antagonist who set this entire mess into motion in order to resurrect themself 100,000 years after their death

At what point will a reader think the plot stops making sense?
>>
>>20790048
It stops making sense when you don't make it make sense, if you get what I mean. The more likely issue here is that you might just annoy readers by making them feel like they're on a constant wild goose chase.
>>
How can I improve my writing?
>>
I really cannot world build. How do you fantasy and sci-fi niggas do it? Trying to fit in information about a fictional universe always feels so difficult. Everything I've ever written takes place on Earth either in the present or past.
>>
>>20790110
>niggas
i'm a homo sapien thank you very much
>>
>>20790110
I start with an idea and expand from there. For example, my world is one where only the strong-willed developed the ability to realize their dreams they have and this has obvious ramifications on the setting. By defining what this power is, who gets it and why they get it I end up with a cast that has a particular history and vision, and the things they do can then affect the world in an interesting way, and finally people in the present who see these things can question it.
Since you've written about things on Earth pick a particular building or something and research it. Ask yourself questions along the way about the process, motivation or events behind it.
>>
>>20790126
Start with this for some fundamentals:
https://youtu.be/0j0mkPEFVIU
Then watch the Sanderson lectures:
https://youtu.be/-6HOdHEeosc

Take notes, pretend you're taking a course. They're exceptionally useful, and they're free.
>>
>>20790139
Sorry, meant to reply to >>20790110
>>
>>20790044
I keep everything in Scrivener, it's good having everything compiled in one place
>>
>>20790110
its not hard for me to make a world but having characters in it who explore it is harder for me
>>
>>20790107
wtf did I just read
>>
>>20790058
Start with what's different about your world. Magic, aliens, whatever. Extrapolate how society's would develop in such a place.

Human beings are the constant. They're just as stupid, clever, greedy, as in the real world. No matter who strange the world, readers will understand the people who live there.
>>
>>20790163
Wrong reply? But yeah, in truth my world has only a few differences yet said differences mean a lot in establishing how the most powerful characters behave.
>>
>>20790149
I was asking how you organize your files

Like the folder you put your notes or outlines ect
>>
>>20790154
garbage
>>
>>20790181
Yeah. That's what Scrivener is, retard. A program for both documents, folders, outlines, charts, sheets, etc.
>>
>>20790203
i wasn't asking for tools to organize I was asking how you organize

Like outline folders, draft folders, how you organize your notes.

what does it look like?
>>
>>20790110
>How do you fantasy and sci-fi niggas do it?
I read nonfiction and base fictional concepts on it, same as every single remembered speculative fiction writer in the last 80+ years.
Crack open a book on animal psychology.
Crack open a book on staple crops.
Mix up.
Voila.
You now have an alien race.

For an example you're free to steal because at its absolute worst we're going to get a funny article out of the retarded people trying to sue eachother over a 15 year old post out of it: Imagine a herbivore prey species that lives off a tuber that draws its energy from vulcanic deposits. This tuber is very energy dense and thus allows for K-selection and small stomachs.
This species is centered around rocky places where nutrient-dense hot water comes to the surface.
Predators can lie in wait and pursue them across open rock.
Gradually, this prey species learns intelligence to dispatch of the predators.

Eventually they take to the stars.
You now have ultra-paranoid ultra-militant stealth focused people that have reason to be genetically belligerent without having exterminated themselves because they were selected to work together above all else.
They ALWAYS shoot to kill. Unlike predators who only kill to eat and leave eachother alive when they fight.

Voila.
Assassin chickens.
That is just a simple example.
To make better fiction you need to learn more about reality.
>>
Any short story / flash fiction writers here?
How's it going? What are you writing about at the moment?
>>
>>20790437
Working on a short story here. Currently about 30 pages into an absurdist story about a guy who wants to kill himself and is very candid about it.
>>
>>20790444
30 pages is pretty long for a short story. What are you gonna do with it once you finish?
>>
>>20790107
I think a big /lit/ rookie error is trying to directly translate the intensity of your personal sensory experiences into writing. So it's interesting that you start with the 'barrier to our communication' vs 'communion' idea, but I think your story doesn't achieve the latter. Trying to immediately conjure up your own felt intensity like a VR experience never works, it goes against the grain of the language, and anyway, people can close their eyes and imagine juicy nips on a sunny day themselves if that's all they're after. All you get from the writing is the voice saying 'I feel things! I have experiences! It's sad and blissful! Believe me!' So the writing becomes a token of something else, instead of opening up into its own space, if that makes sense. Practically, I think you should try writing in the third person, and think about distances. Even the king of subjective intense experience, DH Lawrence, treats that intensity as just moments in the impersonal labyrinth of the story, with all its hesitation, antagonism and isolation.
>>
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>>20790437
This week I'm finishing a short story that is a setup to the novel I'm working
I also have a flash fiction that I got from the prompt list "interesting thing at the bottom of the ocean" but hesitating to send it to ffa. Although the urge to submit to a magazine made me hesitate, I should bite the bullet and send it to ffa as I originally intended. I have plenty of other stories to do.
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>>20790487
Nice. What's it about so far?
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How should I improve this script? People said it gets weak after page 47

https://www.scribd.com/document/551280851/Unfiltered
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>>20790444
Do you need an editor? I'm free this week because I'm moving
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>>20790497
The short story is about several people trying to escape a small bubble city after a certain tech turns off. The machines that the city developed the skin for begin to attack. What happens at the end sets up the novel which happens a year later. I feel like the story is pretty cliche and too different in tone but it's the only way I have ever imagined it going down which is why it's not part of the novel. The novel itself should be ready for copyediting in 8 weeks.
The flash fiction is set in the same universe. A person dives into the Mediterranean to go find the last ironic mask. That one I'm a little nervous about, I feel like my thoughts on it are half-baked so I might need to circle back one of the paragraphs.
>>
>>20790531
Sounds cool. You gonna try publish the story / flash fiction before your novel comes out?
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>>20790544
Yeah, I am giving the short story to &amp hopefully next week for the August issue.
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>>20790556
Sick, I'll give it a read when it comes out
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>>20790470
Also, to follow this up, I think everyone should impose an absolute moratorium on including any detail that's there purely because it's Sexy Tragic Cool. That just gets you a tumblr mood board, instead of writing.
>>
>>20790463
I may try to publish it, but I've never gone through that process before.
>>20790520
Nah, I fairly adept at editing and revision work. Thanks for the offer though.
>>
>>20790556
Funny image. Feel guy is so fucking dead inside yet not dead enough to stop caring what the thot thinks. I know I explained the joke but yeah. Funny stuff.
>>
My fantasy series is structured like Breaking Bad. You know, with a current on-going event occurring, then long trapeses into background stories of a character.

Does any other fantasy series use this method?
>>
>>20790437
I don't know until the day I write it. I put up a flash fiction every weekend on my website. I think if I started publishing a wuxia idea on RR that I've had kicking around for a year and a half, I could land some actual audience engagement. My last post got 9 engagements.
>>
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>>20790009
I can't envision satisfying conclusions to story premises. If I don't have a clear ending in mind, my story meanders, sputters, then dies. I have about 3 short story ideas
>Monogender extinction event (every man spontaneously turns into female version of himself. Dark comedy)
>Suicidal high school is given 1 more year to live. Gets caught up in fantasy geopolitical espionage
>Serial killer (the fact that he is a serial killer is hidden until the end) stumbles into village holding a death game. The twist is that the village is hell and this is his punishment
>>
>>20790107
I like it. I think if you pretended to be a brown woman or a transgender inuit and added linebreaks and called it a poem you'd be hailed as a visionary genius.

>>20790470
I disagree and think it simply comes down to style and taste. You may prefer Lawrence but others may prefer that sort of surreal, close up phantasmagoria like he was writing. There may be an argument about 'objective value' when referring to certain styles and approaches, but the one he is using is fine and interesting and certainly has a market, albeit a small one (but they almost all are).
>>
>>20790755
Combine the first two ideas into one. Turning into a girl would make anyone suicidal
>>
>>20790009
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy-9cws47HM
>>
>>20790315
I use an excel sheet for notes, the different tabs help to organize. I have the main document I'm writing in and then I have a separate document for scenes I take out of the story or for scenes that don't yet fit into the story - easily 90% of the stuff in that separate document never makes it back in or if it does it ends up radically different. That's it, no need for more than that.
>>
>>20790315
>asking how you organize
i just use one folder
i put the outline in there and drafts
i number each draft
some people divide their drafts into chapters. in that case you might want to give each draft its own folder
>>
I have an alcoholic characted jonesing for a drink, but he ends up spilling the last of his liquor. In a moment of desperation, he has to either drink it out of :

A) A rotting, moldy blanket, or B) mud that he spilled it into. Or C) for a muddy moldy rotten blanket, but that might be too disgusting to where it turns comical.

Which one do you lads reckon seems more disgusting?
>>
>>20791640
Honestly, I would probably write around it, emphasizing how it's the character's lowest moment by shamefully avoiding direct mention of it with some authorial device. Trying to disgust the reader is just going to distract from the character, but I guess it depends on how the story is being told.
>>
>>20791640
A sounds the most believable.
>>
>>20790585
>any other fantasy series use this method?
flashbacks are pretty common
the problem with flashbacks is they often bore the reader. you have to make the flashbacks interesting
>>
Another day, another 1k done. This month I will not skip a single day. That's 31k words at the minimum.
BELIEVE IT
>>
>>20792099
I believe in you, anon.
>>
>>20792105
What do you write again? Football homo erotica?
>>
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I want to name both the other survivors after characters from The Tempest, but I feel like Miranda, and Ferdinand are far too obvious of names for the other male, and female survivors.
>>
>>20792105
Fuck off Sponge
>>
>>20792179
Basketball, faggot. Get it right.
And it is not "homo erotica" it is an emotionally gripping sports drama where two players who are rivals just so happen to end up solving their differences through ass-fucking.
They learn to work together and be team players and eventually wins the championship.
Also the coach needs to earn the teams respect and he has a retarded daughter and his wife left him.
>>
>>20792195
>IT IS AN EMOTIONALLY GRIPPING SPORTS DRAMA
>>
>>20792208
>IT'S A GORILLA GRIPPING BUSSY DRAMA
>>
>>20792182
So call them by slight variations if you want to maintain the allusion. If you want to veil it a little bit then gender swap them or pick phonetically similar names. If you don't want it to be obvious then find names with similar meanings in different languages. It's not rocket science.
>>
>writing short sword and sorcery story
>unconsciously describe the main antagonist as a big headed black sorcerer
>realize that the main antagonist is Yakub

How do I salvage this?
>>
>>20792447
Salvage?
>>
>>20792447
Yakub is such an absolute gold mine of a character.
If you do not pursue those riches, i will.
>>
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>>20790110
Think in negative, X and Y factors in real life led to this, arrive at the object you want and have negatives on it lead to it.
>>
>>20790107
Good to see another anon writing schizocore, godspeed.
>>
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>mfw i start reading a draft i wrote two days ago before editing
How do I get over this?
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Hey, anyone wants to check a page of my screenplay notes.
It's for my game so some parts don't make sense but it's dialogue.
Am I being stupid with this? How should I handle dialogue? Fuck I have articy for fuck's sake.

Ok Dialogue, so I know where X NPC is and I knoe what he wants, so I must first think, what's the design and gameplay ourpose of him being here and then, how can I make either a person or completely remove him from personhood, what details can I get on conversation.
The hard part is, why should the player click on his dialogue?
Any help?
>>
>>20792692
Other than bosses, I don't want the player to feel forced to talk to people.
Something else, your main character is either tabula rasa or maximalist. I don't know what to pick, if my writing is shit or if it doesn't land then maximalist is suicide so I think they should talk and have very defined traits and arcs, just not a whole lot. I don't know if making them a visual character would help, you know, I toyed with making their dialogue drawings you pick or facial expressions.
>>
>>20792712
>if my writing is shit
>if
anon
>>
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>>20792712
Game writing is different than literary, I need to look into movies and theater and I have.
I am not bothering to even emulate DE now, I can't, I have to do my own thing, with dialogue too.
>>20792727
It is but I've been trying to be literary when I am not a literary person, I don't describe scenery, I'd rather show it to you and let you say 2 or 4 things about it. I'm not passionate about writing as I am with movies, so I'll have movie like dialogue. Makes sense?
>>
>>20792741
>Makes sense?
yeah you're shitting up someone else's hobby because you're too poor and stupid to shit up your own
>>
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>>20792770
Why do you hate me? What have I done to you?
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>>20792741
>I've been trying to be literary when I am not a literary person
Then become literary, start reading, it's not hard. If you read for 20 minutes to an hour every day that's a good place to start and won't take too much out of your day depending on how busy you are. What kind of game are you working on anyway, most games that use literary elements (visual novels, RPGs) rely on the graphics to do most of the heavy lifting when it comes to description and relegate themselves to describing things the graphics can't make immediately apparent - for instance, character mannerisms in something like a visual novel with mostly static graphics.
>>
>>20792811
you're shitting up someone else's hobby because you're too poor and stupid to shit up your own
>>
>>20792195
Does the coach also get in on the action? That might make it more marketable
>>
>>20792447
Protagonists should be black antagonists should be white
>>
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>>20792837
RPG, lots of focus into idiosyncracies.
I'm very busy with coding, work, graphics, I do read and a lot but I can't.
Idrally the game shouldn't have a single text that's not UI or dialogue. Extremely naturalistic.
>>
>>20792447
I'll entertain you.
What's the problem here exactly?
>>
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>>20792741
You're insufferable, but if you write a short story, I'll edit it for a nominal fee until we get it published. What is your email address?
>>
>>20792880
>>20792880
Ever played Obra Dinn? Like that
>>
>>20792899
I kind of gave up in being a proper writer, I want to write for visual medium.
>>
I will write a story today. It will be a great story and will capture the hearts of Americans. My story will be about a man who travels to Africa in search of a mythical beast. This beast is not believed to exist, but this man will go anyways. He will face adversity. I will write the story so that the man is profound and tragic and the story will be relatable to all Americans. He will be a brave and he will go where others in his society dared not. He will find the last colony of gorillas. In my story gorillas were never discovered and orangutans do not exist. People know only about chimpanzees. Only chimpanzees and no other great apes. He will see that these are just apes and it will be nothing but another extinct animal to add to a textbook. He will cry because he sees that he has discovered nothing and it will touch the hearts of the readers. Everybody will love my story and my success will reflect upon my character and help me find a nice respectable wife.
>>
>>20793064
I knew this was going to be a metaphor for finding a woman. I'll read it.
>>
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Eyes growing heavy Ostra yawned and put his head back against the wall. The warmth of the fire caused him to relax. His lids shut and began to doze off.
He woke up with a start. The sun had set and the cave was black. The fire had dwindled to a low flicker. The embers broke the darkness but barely. He could feel Tsiqui leaning against him.
She shivered a bit so Ostra got up slowly, laying Tsiqui on the ground. He felt around locating some of the collected wood. He tossed a few branches on the coals and blew the fire from the side. Flames danced and caught the sticks. The cave became brighter shadows danced to the movement of the flames.
He jumped back. There was a figure at the entrance of the cave. He grabbed a piece of wood and examined the figure. He sighed. It was just Zotu. He was about to call the boy back inside, but he noticed something bizarre.
Zotu seemed to be conversing with someone. Ostra could not see who he was talking to and felt a chill. Why had they not reacted when he started the fire back up? Did they even notice?
Using a burning limb as a torch O’stra walked to where Zotu was squatting.
“Zotu, who’s there ?”
Zotu looked at Ostra, his eyes wide open and he was animatedly moving his arm. It seemed as if he were in a serious argument except his pupils shook violently.
“Is he in a trance?”
Ostra grabbed the boy’s arm and was pulled in.

Chapter 8
Swirling golden dust blew past Ostra as he stood under a black sun. The void star, encircled by a glowing ring that oscillated blinding rays, smothered the young man as he stood on a sea of sand.
In the distance he saw Zotu struggling against a form that spewed clouds of dust… or was it smoke? Ostra could not tell.
“Hey, leave him be!”
Zotu screamed and Ostra launched himself into the assailant. The contact he made was as if he were tackling the morning mist. He landed hard in the sand. The grit scraped his face and shoulder raw.
Rolling over he saw that the figure now mirrored Zotu. Zotu recovered and locked hands with the attacker. Now they were pushing and shoving trying to keep themselves square on the shifting ground.
It took a bit but the realization left Ostra in wonder. Zotu was fighting his shadow. The shade was the same size and shape as Zotu but void of any color. The wisps of colorless clouds fell off the creature. Ostra wondered how he sailed through that shadow like it was vapor but Zotu fought like it was indeed there.
Ostra got to his feet and rushed to the fray but they vanished. Confused, Ostra closed his eyes and opened them. The boy and his shadow were gone.
1/2
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>>20793189
Ostra exhaled with a shudder and then the sand blew. Slow at first it swirled gold ribbons then became a tempest of shards. The pelting grains ripped across his skin. He cried out only to have sand fill his mouth. He was being buried in the sand. He floundered, clawing his way to the surface only to have more sand land on him. The smothering weight eventually caused him to go completely black.
“Agh!”
Ostra snapped awake; he still leaned against the cave wall. The fire just embers in the darkness.
“What is it?”
Ostra panted, wiping sweat from his forehead.
“Where is Zotu?”
2/2
>>
>>20792447
give him a long nose, hands he drywashes constantly and beady eyes
>>
What process do (you) typically go through to come up with names for things? I'm having trouble coming up with a good name for an eldritch and otherworldly alien species.
>>
>>20792880
>lots of focus into idiosyncracies
don't do this. please. your characters will all come across as schizophrenic messes
>>
>>20793249
Fantasynamegenerator dot com, or I pick Biblical names, or I pick names from people I know IRL.
>>
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>>20793249
i look up a word to describe the character and look up the latin (or another language) origin and change it to sound more like a name.
>>
>>20793353
I sometimes do this, and rarely choose something ironic to their character. Most of the time I am taking names from people in the towns that they are set in to fulfill that sense of place, but there's usually names creeping in from other countries or backgrounds that serve to show they are different in that way.
>>
>>20792447
I'll be furious if you alter it
>>
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>>20790009
I didn't expand the word count much today, and I know this scene is going to be one I revisit a lot, but it feels good to open this document and get anything done other than adding a few bullet points to the outline.
>>
Concept: A bratty 14 teenage girl gets dragged along on a camping trip by her parents. She wanders off and is raped by bigfoot.
>>
>>20793424
Make it a werewolf and I'm sold.
>>
>>20793424
Hardmode: No smut
>>
>>20793249
A random name bubbles up out of my subconscious and I go hunting around for similar-sounding things on wiktionary. A surprising amount of the time, it turns out that the name could plausibly trace to a relevant phrase or root word or affix in some language. I might tweak some letters around until it sounds right.
>>
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>>20793424
Sorry nanashi is working on a romcom manga
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>>20790009
Hey, I saw a mention in /tg/ of a pdf with a massive list of potential domains for the gods you make in fantasy settings, does anyone have any idea where I can find it please?
>>
>>20793504
Wrong thread. You'll have better luck in /sffg/

Domains arent how you should define your gods though, that's a horrible construct of modern d&d, nothing about it in the myths of the world.
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>>20793261
Why not? Just some, ok?
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>finished writing my newest short story last night
>don't have another one lined up to start
What do you boys do in these awful gaps between inspiration?
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>>20793989
I work manual labor
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>>20793989
I read or try to reflect on my day, the past year or further back.
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>>20793989
I work two full days a week so I'm usually distracted by that for some of the week.
If I'm not working, I usually read, play games, listen to music, or chatting to people online or in person. You need experience to write, so maybe save up to travel (I'm planning on going to the States next year and already travelled interstate this year), or start eavesdropping or talking to people at a cafe or bar.
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Later this year (after finishing my current WIPs) I'm going to write a fantasy romance that takes place in the Earth of Genesis. It will be about a knight and a cute apothecary venturing out past the dome of the heavens to bring medicine back to the world of the firmament. I'll market it like it's Atelier Ryza but the content will be biblical.

I'm not sure if there's any research material I should consume aside from the bible though.
>>
>>20794032
Paradise Lost, Paradise Regained, Samson Agonistes, and Divina Commedia would help
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>>20794040
Fuck, that's a good point. Maybe I'll pad for time with more sci-fi. I've got two of those sitting on my bookshelf right now.

QRD on Paradise REgained and Samson Agonistes? I've not heard of them.
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>>20794044
>Paradise Regained
A "sequel" to Paradise Lost that shows the heavenly side of things more than the hellish, trying to show the ways of god to men.
>Samson Agonistes
A dramatic poem (so a bit like reading Shakespeare, but with more insistence on blank verse) where the main character goes to a temple; it's based on biblical stories.
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>>20794032
Maybe read some history/anthropology about Antediluvian periods. There are some that try to describe what the world was like assuming Noah's story is true. As far as Atlantis, Mu and other stuff I would be careful because they can be less biblical. Some anthropologists going into Christian history are also cryptozoologists and will have /x/-shit with it so just keep your eyes open. Like the other anon said I recommend Paradise Lost. It's often though as more tragic and dramatic because of all that goes on but Paradise Regained takes more of a focus on Christ.
>>
>>20794064
>anthropology
gtfo furfag.
>>
>>20794054
Sounds like reasonable suggestions. I can study those while filling out my series work.

It's actually starting to grate on me that the only route to full time writing is by cranking out a regular series for people to get addicted to. But hey, buy my cyberpunk I guess?

>>20794064
Do you have particular suggestions? I forgot to say I also have the Enuma Elish waiting to buy on Amazon right now to give some fantastical flair.
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>>20794071
I don't have any suggestions exactly but I'm just saying if I were you that's what I would look for. Maybe vet the books a bit before you invest time reading them. If you look up Antediluvian category on goodreads I see several books using different approached to speculate on the various kingdoms of that time period. I was thinking of getting Before the Flood by Ian Wilson maybe but there are some other things like it that speculate more on things like Anak.
Forgot to mention, I highly recommend you listen to lectures from Kent Hovind on Creationism because he describes the world before the flood quite well. There were a lot of things going on as far as dinosaurs, differences in climate that he gets into detail about. You can absolutely use those to bring life to the story.
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>>20794098
Added that to my watch later list. Thanks
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>>20793683
What should we do instead then? Are there any settings that we can look to that do domains well that we can emulate?
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>>20794129
Why do you want to do domains at all?

Where do you think the very idea comes from?
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>>20794158
Wasn't Thor the god of thunder, Mars the God of War, etc.?

And again, what would you recommend instead?
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>>20794158
not that anon but, uh, pretty much every polytheistic religion?
>>
How often do you give yourself a break to avoid burnout? I've been trying to maintain a 2k words a day habit for my current manuscript but it's beginning to stress me out. I'm around 41k
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>>20794187
My paralyzing fear of inadequacy stops me from writing anything at all.
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>>20794162
Thor is also a war god, as is Tyr and Odin.

If you want to build a pantheon, what you need to realize is the gods are basically people, wizards in a sense, and the myths treat them as such. Just people who can do remarkable things and have certain responsibilities. Take Hades for example. Literally any of the Greek gods could rule the dead, because there's nothing about Hades except how the stories playe dout that put him in charge of beyond the river Styx.

The idea of domains comes from outsiders. Rome treated Mars as THE god of war because they kept conquering other tribes with their own war gods and needed to declare the other gods as the same and assimilate them.

Worship in the ancient times was often a plea for aid in something humans can't control fundamentally. The big ones are War, Wisdom, Fertility/Harvest, and Love, and over time the gods with the most relevant stories of actions get the most worship, but a pantheon isn't founded in that manner.

Consider the canonization of saints. Any saint can perform any miracle, to my knowledge, but you might pray to the particularly relevant one because of their story.
>>
>last 2 weeks did initial research and a chronological timeline
>today reasoned out the story layout from the events making sure everything fits in place thematically
the amount of research left to do before I can even begin writing is like trying to summit Everest in flip flops. Historical is absolutely ruthless.
>>
>>20794194
Yet you just wrote something. Congratulations
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>>20794187
I tend to just write for a few hours at a time, if I don't feel like writing that day I find things to read instead.
Today I would say I've spent 5 or 6 hours writing, but 2 days ago I maybe spent 2 hours.
Don't force yourself to write because you feel you need to hit an arbitrary goal, when I do that I end up writing chapters that I scrap 70% of and end up basically writing a new chapter with only parts of what it originally was.
>>20794194
Write something to start at least, that is the worst part.
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>>20794208
That's not writing, that's typing.

Big difference.
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>>20794217
>That's not writing, that's typing.
the real big difference is, people who get things done and go on to be great, see all typing as writing, and don't care until they have enough of it to edit into something usable.
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>>20794227
I don't think I can make a book out of 69 pages of me calling people retarded.
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>>20794234
that's because you're still under the boot of a defeatist mindset.
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>>20794235
I'm not a defeatist, I'm just tired.
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>>20794217
>>20794234
Idk if you're the person I was originally responding to, but the sentiment of having a paralyzing fear of inadequacy is something you could expand on and explore in a piece of writing. You wrote the first sentence so why not keep it going?
>>20794211
By "feel like writing" how do you usually judge it? For myself I usually don't feel like it until I force myself to start. Unless I go like a few days or a week without writing, and feel like really anxious or stressed and just have to write out my thoughts to get them out of my head, or if I get an idea that I want to write that pops into my head, I usually have to "force" myself to get the ball rolling, but once I'm over the initial intertia I usually do get in the mood. I guess I ask because if I only wrote when I felt like it I think I would just go from rough scene sketch to rough scene sketch without ever finishing a project or draft
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>>20794245
I judge it by just a feeling of building anxiety, I might not be writing all day but I spend much of it thinking about what I want to write and how to connect what I last wrote with the next chapter, often I will blitz 3000 to 4000 words, go to bed, edit in the morning.
most I ever did was about 6000 in one day.
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>>20794197
>Worship in the ancient times was often a plea for aid in something humans can't control fundamentally
that's all worship is, nowadays
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>>20794187
Twenty days to burnout? Cmon anon you are better than that
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>>20794438
I think it's cus I'm discovery writing and feel kinda lost with what scenes I need so I might do some light outlining to figure it out
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>>20794438
I hadn't even noticed, I'm closer to 70K or higher, try to do 1500 a day at least, but mostly go way above that.
>>20794509
I'm new at this, never heard of discovery writing. But that seems to be what I am doing as well.
I have been keeping a vague outline of where I want to go in my head and the story is what happens during the in between parts.
I started July 13th. in my first week of writing I didn't write for 2 of the 7 days, not knowing what to do. So I thought more about where I wanted the story to go and what I wanted it to be. In the meanwhile I wrote a sidestory in my world. Sometimes I find it nice to flesh out the world, to write from the perspective of another person only barely related to the main story.
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>>20792891
I’m trying to write a semi-serious story, but that’s a pipe dream in anything that deals with Yakub. Sure, maybe some NOI or 5%ers might take it seriously, but I can’t.

I know the story of Yakub, when isolated, only seems like a bastardized rendition of the story of Abraham, but when you realize the meaning of Yakub; you just cannot take it seriously anymore.
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>>20785818
i think i might have misunderstood your advice, i definitely wouldnt ignore it.

Dialog feels outside of my wheelhouse, but i suppose i cant get better if i dont try.

the entire piece is a true to life depiction of actual events, so adding things that didnt really happen might add some much needed depth, but this all happened four-five years ago at this point so a lot of details, like dialog and specifics are just lost to memory. I should just get over it and take some liberties to make it a better read.
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>>20794678
You don't have to use any of the names, you know. Just selectively lift the story and character elements that you think could work for you. By the time anybody actually made the connection, it could only result in your story getting more attention.
>>
Day 55 editing.
Chapter 74 done.
7.4k word chapter.
Basically just one convrsation and some setup and close out.
The attentionlets will just have to cope i gues.
>>
>work 8 hours a day
>+1 hr 30 min commute
>too busy to write at work (office job)
>too zoned out to write after work
>trying to wake up up in the morning so not in a creative mood

I have to get the 7am bus to work. Typically this means me climbing out of bed at 6.30am, but if I went to bed early I can get out of bed at 6am (better start to the day).

Do I have to fucking go to wake up at 4-5am in order to have the time in the day to write? It's the weekend and I'm burnt the fuck out.
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>>20795138
Write during your commute, duh.
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The Bouquet residence, lady of the house speaking. Why anon, how wonderful to hear from you dear!
Richard, it's anon calling! He's written more of his book? How much did you say dear? 106k words now, Richard, did you hear that?
>>
Bought Atticus tonight and have been messing around with it
So far I'm pretty impressed and I like that I can add full page images since my works almost always have a few insert illustrations
Anyone else use it?
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>>20794217
hit those keys like they owe you money
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>>20795178
>106k
>into the wordlet bucket it goes
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>>20795291
Cut me some slack, buddy. I ain't done yet.
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>>20795178
That's getting on the longer side definitely. American Psycho is around that length but only because Bateman neurotically mentions what people are wearing. To good effect. The video rental store scene where he freaks out because he can't see the shoes the cashier is wearing and his hand starts shaking violently and imagines blood is coming from the ceiling, total madman.
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>>20795307
I read so many actually long novels I can't fathom how anyone can think 100k is long.
>>
The wind blew cold through the Milwaukee project. All across the block the homies was partying. And boy was they partying. The year was 1973 and the Milwaukee night was cold but the cold didn't stop the homies partying or George Floyd mama from being pregnant. She was fitting to pop that night and she did and the cold didn't stop her from doing it. And George Floyd was born on that cold Milwaukee night even though his mama said it were far too cold to be pregnant and she was happy to be done with the business. When George come out he was crying loud and nobody could stop him almost as if God and the angels knew already and was ready from that moment to take him up back into heaven even though he weren't but just born and he was. But it weren't Milwaukee it were somewhere else.

When we was fifteen my butt got big and I started getting that booty even though my tits wasn't grown yet. But my pussy was pink and it stay pink. But I knew that boy was special even if he weren't special enough to let him fuck he were special. For example he alway had top loud. Off top best on the block. So even though I ain't let him fuck I'm a still smoke up, you dig? Out here we get fucked up and stay that way I know you dig.

But I gotta say as we get older and George keep getting bigger I'm a get curious what he got going on. It was 1989 and I was knocked up with my third son and hurting for a pick me up so I call George up and let him think I'm fitting to fuck because I knew he still wanted the pussy after all this time. I'm a guess he never stop wanting it that pink pink pussy of mine even though he got pussy from other bitches and a couple baby mama too. Niggers always telling me the way my booty jiggle when they on me from behind and that were definitely on my mind at that time as I gone over to smoke up a little but definitely not to fuck because I was already pregnant and didn't need to add no more on top of it. I ain't even want the one I got and sure enough don't need another on top but the doctors says I was third trimester by time I come in fitting to get that nigger out of me and couldn't do it they says with some cold hard look on they face like it they baby or something. Anyway that ain't the point.
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>>20795344
Anyway after I popped out that little nigger who still living with my mama I remember how George Floyd always have the best doja and I remember how that other cold night I came over to George place and we smoke up but don't fuck and I get to feeling like I'm fitting to do that again but it don't go like I planned because we do end up fucking in like 2015 because George was in Milwaukee and I ain't have no nothing or another but the clothes I'm wearing and those nigger living at my mama house she always bitch at me that I gotta come and see but that night I just want to smoke. So I go over and we smoke a little and fuck and my booty he says jiggle thick while he fuck me from behind which make me happy. And I don't get pregnant and I don't cum on that niggers dick because even though he about seven foot tall like LeBron be tall his dick ain't nowhere near that big neither. And he don't even know how to use it and don't eat pussy but at least I get high.

By that time George was doing good. He had these pills he was selling and they make him that cash. When I see his Mercedes I sort of wish he did get me pregnant but he didn't. Now I don't fuck around with no tweak or no skag but them pills was fire off top. Now these days after George dead and shit I'm fitting to spread the word about what kind of nigger George Floyd was. I want yall to know that he had the best doja on the block. I want yall know that even if he couldn't make a bitch cum with his little baby dick he still smoke up with her before and after because that's how he was. That's who they stole from us. He a fucking Saint. A modern day Black Saint straight outta Zion or the Bible or some shit and even if he die murdered by the police in Milwaukee that who he is. Best doja on the block off top and I'm sure in my heart as I cry and write this that he up in heaven sharing his weed with God even if he can't make him cum neither.
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>>20795316
A lot of modern genres average 70 to 90k words. Scifi and Fantasy almost always go over 100k now. I still have plenty of old lit that gets huge. Gothic stories are especially wild on word count though I think some of them were serialized first which actually helped the narrative structure being removed so the reader couldn't exactly condemn the main character.
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What are some good similes for very large muscular arms? thick as tree trunks is kinda overused at this point
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>he had arms like a baby's cock
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>send two new chapters to my mom
>instead of commenting on them she asks if I've been reading the bible
Even my own mother doesn't care about my work anymore
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>>20790107
Very cool
>>
Shall I spin a yarn steeped in reference? to
Ages gone by, to books never read, to crackpot
And half-bakèd theories run ‘round in my head?
Invoke hallowed names to pose the grand questions,
To answer in dutiful stead: this answer is such;
The solution to that’s what I’ve already read!
Start with the Greeks! study Evola! perhaps
What you’re thinking’s been already said.

Aggregate! Synthesize! The long-dead require
The subsumption of your identity for their
Continued subsistence.

L'éducation est un condition sine qua non.

I looked that up on Google.
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>>20795375
>mom asks me what my next book is about
>I answer as vaguely as possible
>"Oh...is it inappropriate?"
>"Just a little bit"
>finished outlining section where a woman is flailing on the floor crying because of the life she's made for herself
Don't worry about it, Mom.
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>>20795375
Anon, maybe she's asking that BECAUSE your writing is SO GOOD that she thinks you've been reading so much more shit, like the Bible.
>>
>Hey, I got a copy of your book
>You know how you switch between using first names and last names?
>>Yeah?
>I couldn't understand that
Just the kind of message I wanted to wake up to this morning.
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>>20795450
>>You know how you switch between using first names and last names?
well why are you doing that
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>>20795464
Because the PoV can't tell whether they are atill purely professional or if he's friends with the guy he's about to have to kill.

Also the name is an alliteration so there really shouldn't be any confusion.
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>>20795430
Nah clearly she's worried he's going to kill himself or do something awful to an underage girl and wants him to get right with God
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>>20795495
I guess you could add one line that makes it explicit for the less attentive readers? Something like
>"Mr. Smith" I called John, trying to keep it professional
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>>20795528
NTA but I wonder about this too. If I manage to get around to my fourth outlined story I will be writing about virtual rape-murder, idiosyncrasies, mental degeneration. I'll probably be married by then though so maybe my parents won't worry if that happens.
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>>20790009
I keep slipping into my "literary voice" when I'm on the internet. It makes me sound pretentious and uptight when I prefer appearing casual
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>>20795554
I've had some anons reply to me like they were in Paradise Lost every time and was wondering if they were some mentally ill ideologue or just larping to practice their writing voice.
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>>20795547
I'm hoping it's just a minority opinion, but I won't know until more people pick up a copy of my book.
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>>20795566
>tfw reading this and my story is focused on what are essentially 2 conmen with the same name, and 3 names each depending on who they're talking to.

Not who you were speaking to before but I think (pray) it's not an issue for most. I think the dissonance between narrator and character title for people is pretty clear and highlights through contrast the nature of the character relationships. As a reminder to a reader I do try to give both titles together near the beginning of the scene via dialogue and a contrasting dialogue tag.
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>>20795714
You need to give the characters specific dialogue flairs so even without the names, the reader can identify the speaker.
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>>20792857
No, that would be pedophilia. Coach Blackman is a moral upstanding character who earns the teams respect and brings them to the championship. Also he has a retarded daughter.
>>
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My story of the mimic snails invading the abbey of Escargot (get it?) has reached 3200 words. I've reached a decision that the narrator is a German monk who came to the abbey as an outsider and is butthurt over not being popular so he's using the opportunity of recounting the horror of the mimic snails to anonymously talk shit about the other brothers and especially the abbot who dies
I'm trying to include lines of the narrator aggrandizing brother Helmut as a hint as to the true author of the text.
>>
>>20795344
>>20795347
This is art. Jesus fucking Christ, this is art.
>>
>>20795554
I have this problem when I'm sending emails.
>>
I'm never going to finish this story and I keep getting rejected by journals who I HATE and want to steal all their women like a vikingr from the loser hell I originate from. anyways:

///

In the town of Skeller there was a small prison, a windowless fist of stone in the shadow of hill and pine. The prison was built before the Revolution, before the territory had any jurisdiction save the distant governance of treaties signed by men who’d never stepped foot there.
Past the sturdy wooden door there was the warden’s office, a room with one window adjacent to the door and another door beyond to the cells. If one were to enter the hallway of cells and take a left and go down to the very last cell on the left, there one would find smooth hands wrapped around the iron bars. Not a brigand’s hands or drunkard’s, no callouses or bruises or scar tissue along the knuckles. If one looked into this cell they would not see a wild, disheveled man but instead a genteel countenance. His eyes would be as pleasant as a faithful courier’s news, as a baker’s as he sells his first loaf of bread for the day. The eyes of a true citizen, as if the man to whom they belonged had not made any arduous journey out to this remote country but had simply appeared, as easily as one reaches the front door of one’s own home.
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>>20795347
>Best doja on the block off top and I'm sure in my heart as I cry and write this that he up in heaven sharing his weed with God even if he can't make him cum neither.
fucking kek. The flow on these posts are actually kinda nice. I like how you used "fitting to" instead of "fixing to" because some people do say it like that.
>>
>>20796289
“Henry, Henry,” the warden muttered, leaning against the bars opposite the genteel man’s cell. “Would you care for a swig?” He proffered the overfull mug he held towards the prisoner,
his teeth grinning in torchlight amongst the shadows.

“I must decline,” Henry said.

“You’re not in a world of ‘musts’ anymore. Here it’s just musty.” The warden laughed and took a drink himself. “Come on now, have a drink.”

Henry waved his hand, shaking his head. “It’ll do me no good.”

“You don’t know that. Might be the only good you ever get. Come on now, be a good fellow.”

“Men like you – what do you get out of insistence?”

The amusement on the warden’s face faded, his features drooped. “I nearly forget you’re a criminal. You almost manage it, the act of yours.”

“What act?”

“That somehow, even in this cell, you’re above me. That you’re above all of Skeller.”

“I think this cell is, in fact, sunken a bit below the hall,” Henry said. “I pray there's no fault in the foundation. Such as it is, I simply could not be above you.”

“You’re a snake,” the warden spat, taking an uneven step forward and thrusting his head up, his frown now a scowl. “Glad we didn’t share drinks.” He turned away from his prisoner
then, gulping down the rest of the mug’s contents with a childish fervor. There was the sound of the door opening and slamming shut, and then once more all was silent.
>>
>>20795355
>good similes for very large muscular arms?

the only thing that came to mind was "arms like a gorilla"
there's nothing wrong with saying "his arms and shoulders were covered in thick muscles."
>>
How much erotic detail am I allowed to give to a serious work of literature like a drama or tragedy before someone gets mad?
What if I had a line that said something like
>He had a bulge that could rival Jonah Falcon himself, not that he got to use it yet
>>
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>>20796289
Do you want an editor? I'll work with you until we get it published. I actually just got a really good idea for a short story myself and am planning to work on my own too
>>
This modern cult of "just get to the point" is such a fucking bore. "Did you get paid by the word?" fuck off.
>>
>>20796289
Has possibilities. Hope there will be more.
>>
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Weedman, your book just came in the mail.
it's a somewhat odd photo since I didn't want to cover up the art with my fingers.
I've already written a backlog so I can upload a chapter a day until the 9th, giving me time to read this.
>>
>>20795178
I had to reply to this. A fucking keeping up appearances reference on 4chan jesus christ
>>
>>20795178
I believe you misspelled Bucket.
>>
>>20796469
Thanks. There is more -- he's in prison for wooing an important man's daughter (provincial authority etc), soon after the opening the man comes in and beats the shit out of him. Later on the daughter goes missing and the father decides to conscript Henry into finding her. That's as far as I got (1707 words) but I now think that's a stupid turn, making it into an adventure that will take too long to write, so if I returned to it I think I would keep it short and entirely within the prison.

>>20796458
I dunno, is editing something you do? In some ways I'm just content to let the story wither and die. Just putting it on here though made me rethink some things and made some edits on the spot though. If it helped a short story idea come to your mind I'm glad. If you feel comfortable sharing it I'd be interested to hear what it is.
>>
>>20790009
I once dreamed there were some books that rivaled Harry Potter, but were better written. Something Something involved about a room full of mirrors.

Damn I do wish there would be Harry Potter like clones that finally make it good.
>magic
>wizard & witches
>cool cast of main characters
>them growing up, showing them as teens with romance and shit
>cool world building etc.
>>
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>>20796541
And here I thought we was all amateur writers who studied literature through Open University.
>>
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>>20796495
>mfw checked mailbox and its still empty
THE NEED FOR READ
>>
Soob stock anon. We’re all going to make it. (Making $320 a month from writing right now)
>>
>>20796736
Probably to do with where you are, I'm in Ohio which isn't far from Missouri, where I assume he is. If you are a coastie it will likely be there a day later, 2 if you are west coast.
>>
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>>20795344
>>20795347
>Yes Mr. Goldstein, it's me. I'm calling because I found that perfect movie pitch you were looking for. Yes sir, it's going to be even bigger than Precious. No, not like that...
>The title? All Nogs Go to Heaven.
>>
Wait, how many of you are selling books or your writing in general?
>>
>>20796827
That's pretty impressive anon. Makes me wonder if I should just say fuck it and give up on RR, start over on substack
>>
>>20796642
Yes, I have worked on magazines before. I'm going to keep my story idea a secret, but it's like an edgy Golden Dawn version of Doctor Strange.

I think you have potential: feel free to contact me
>>
>>20796865
>All Nogs Go to Heaven.
Interesting. I've often wondered if black people do go to heaven. The one(s) that aren't violent criminals anyway.
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>>20796827
>>20796918
What sells on sub stank?
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>>20795795
Fuck off Sponge
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>>20796943
Have you ever looked at soob stock? Quite a lot on there.
>>
Maybe Gardner/meerkat anon was right all along…
>>
>>20796827
interesting, could I set up on it and then keep my story on another platform still? I am currently on royal road and I know at least 1 story on there which is also on another platform.
But looking at the help center for substack I am not seeing anything saying I can or cannot post my story to another platform. I would potentially leave the free story on royal road with a chapter a day schedule and then post the chapters as I write them on substack.
Not unlike people with a patreon, which I know royal road doesn't mind.
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>>20797030
You can post whatever you want on the website.
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>>20797122
Thanks for answering.
I need to get a bank account and maybe a cell phone to actually get it set up to get paid, I hope that I can make something someday.
And no I am not a child, I'm 23 but I've got issues leading to me not leaving the house often and thus not needing a cellphone, and I've never had a job so I never set up a bank account.
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>>20796459
It really is. Imo it's a reaction to the massive amounts of free time people have now where if you don't keep someone engaged, they go to other entertainment. If you drag, you drop.
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>>20796713
University? Nah senpai, I study at the school of hard knocks (open a book and fucking read it)
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>>20790009
Is there anyway to query an agent by religion? As in knowing their religion so I can sort them and query the ones I like via their religion
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>>20797184
I’m going to be real with you man. Idk if it’s physical or psychological, but if it’s not physical you need to go outside and get a job.
If it’s psychological you should still go outside to the best of your ability.
This was sad reading this.
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>>20797295
Some agents and editors list their religion if the bio if it matters a lot to them. I don't see it very often though.
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>>20795404
Can I see your outline?
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>>20797314
physical.
My spine got fucked when I was 15, and its been getting worse.
But despite the near crippling pain I feel all day I still want to try and do something, either the little baking and cooking I can manage or the writing which I can do from my bed.
I try to get out every now and then, I have 11 siblings and 4 of them have children. So mostly I leave the house to check the mail or go to birthday parties.
when we get heavy rains or snow I like to take a short walk down the road to a small bridge and look at the creek, see how high the water gets.
Last winter I the creek was frozen clearly so I could still see minnows swimming beneath the ice.
My life could be worse, could be a whole lot better. I am past the depressed suicidal phase at this point, just trying to live day by day.
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>>20797342
good lad.
you have a great novel waiting in you
>>
there is not one good synonym for the word "ice"
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>>20797432
depends on the context
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>>20797432
Speed, crank, chalk, etc.
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>>20797432
Rime
Frost
Hoarfrost
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>>20797432
really cold water.
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>>20797442
what?
>>20797445
these are just different ways of saying frost, not ice
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>>20797463
That first anon is talking about drugs, crack I think. And its myriad nicknames.
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>>20797432
Same for "smile". There's "grin" and that's about it.
I'm forced to remark on twinkling eyes and shit like that.
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>>20794194
Try journaling a little to grease up
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>>20797330
It's too detailed to show. The general gist of it is a Southern state in the US roughly 20-30 years from now. Changes in the government structure leads the states into isolating from each other politically and culturally. The main character is an embodiment of that new ethos that is supremely resistant to outside influence. He is a dysfunctional relationship with a woman who molded him into someone callous and abusive. The crying woman I was referring to is that girlfriend and maid (pic related), she has extreme mental issues and her perversions sometimes manifest as hysteria. The guy ends up desperately in love with a whore—from another state—even though he knows she's lying to him about everything.
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My one-scene play. All criticism appreciated.
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>>20797559
I approve. Sounds very American Gothic.
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>>20797584
I'm an editor. Do you want to make it a one-act? What's your email?
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>>20797317
Thanks
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>>20797604
I'm alright dude, thanks. But please accept this small token of charity.
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>>20797627
>10 quadrillion
>>
Any resources for playwriting?
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well lads, my novella that I posted about here several months ago
>https://warosu.org/lit/thread/S19578746#p19579165
is coming along nicely (the positive reception that post got was very encouraging). Some changes have been made but then again, I have been writing this piece of shit for the better part of three years so I'm glad that I'm approaching a point where I can publish it and be happy. Been thinking about buying some 4chan ads when it does come out; have any of you anons tried that? How did it go?
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>>20797669
I haven't tried ads but I have seen Eggplant ads before so Nesmer could probably chime in when he's on. Would read by the way. I saw some book called "Anon pls" coming out in a few months and I entered a giveaway. I really like anon anything. There are a lot of people that don't really get what it's like to live a good chunk of your life that way, so many people just brainlessly putting their name and face on things. I'd love to see what your take is on it.
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>>20797665
This isn't really what you're asking for, but if you haven't seen them I recommend Pinter's The Birthday Party (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vbXyXeEDhU) and Beckett's Endgame (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ok7Vc3jczNg) as useful models for how modern dramatic dialogue can work.
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>>20797699
cheers for the recommendations. Only seen Pinter's The Dumb Waiter.
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'Ello gents. A day or so ago I asked if any of you spoke Spanish and wanted to read some recent work. I've since translated it myself and given it a little presentation. Here you go.

For context, I'm writing short stories about death for children, as assistance to a relative who's working with an NGO
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>>20797730
This is really nice, and skillfully economical. The image of the owner not yet being awake when Death slips in got to me.
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>>20797730
is it going to be read in english or in spanish? if it's for kids i find it hard to be all that harsh about it, but the last sentence of the english-language version is obtuse. i'm willing to bet that it's much, much better in spanish though. it's really hard for me to nitpick something that's otherwise so well put-together, but the purist in me sees that enlarged final sentence and wonders if it could be worded a little better.
>>
Weedman, if you read this, I am unsure if I can finish your book, the main characters pain and the description of his wife looking in the mirror for the woman who laughed and happily poured drinks is hitting me hard.
I don't have a terminal illness, but I have a habit of pushing myself too hard do to anything really, for my 3rd youngest sisters wedding I spent 2 days baking, just 50 rolls a day. As a result I was moving like a zombie, barely there during her wedding due to the pain.
when I first went to the ER with my back pain I was asked if I wanted a wheelchair, I said no, took maybe 5 steps leaning on a handrail the entire time before I changed my mind. The hardest part of losing physicality is losing the things I would be able to do just fine before, walk 5 miles in the morning? sure thing, no problem. 100 pound bags of feed? I'll take one over each shoulder. 12 hours of moving a family friends things from her house to her new place? sure thing, $20 is fine. it is hard to read someone who has lost themselves in their mind and become emotionally distant from their family, its too much like how I was from 15 to 17. I might finish it, but I think I will be taking breaks often.
I must complement you on your writing, I think you can really connect people to your characters. even if I had a normal life I think I would care for them, I would feel their sadness though not as strongly.
>>20797730
I think its a good story.
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>>20797730
Post it in spanish and your questions
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Videogame writing anon here, I'm having an issue.
I can write dialogue BUT I can't write reactions. Describing their actions in conversation? Beyond. For someone that reads a lot, I shouldn't be having this issue. Disco Elysium had these. E.Y.E did not, neither did Deus Ex.
What should I do? Add another risk factor and try to have them.
>He came to a halt blah blah blah turns at you
Abstract it? Not even include it? Use drawings instead?
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>>20797842
is that the pugfaced bitch from better call saul? i'd fuck her. as for your question though... reactions? i don't understand. a reaction can be so many things that you're probably gonna have to narrow it down a bit to get specific feedback.
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>>20797759
:)

>>20797791
In spanish. It was similar, so I switched it up for shorter sentences.

>>20797815
Give me a moment. I have no questions though, I just wanted to share with the class.


>>20797842
Videogame writing? I don't think I've caught your posts yet, may I get a QRD?
>I cant write reactions
It depends on what kind of videogame you're making? Maybe a visual novel could do you better
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>>20797860
>In spanish. It was similar, so I switched it up for shorter sentences.
figured. i don't speak spanish, but from what i understand it's generally a more verbose language anyway, so it makes sense that a direct translation would be a little unwieldy.
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>>20797815
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>>20797866
Everything checks out yeah.
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>>20797850
>>20797860
Let me explain myself, dialogue tends to be handled the same way on RPGs now. It's really a basic state of writing.
Dialogue lines from the character themselves and lines that describe the scenery, help you picture the character.
On a macro scale, gameplay lines and worldbuilding lines.
>visual novel
Oh no, not at all. I am not literary, weeks ago I posted some horrible writing here, not even going to try going that way. I'm looking more into film, minimalistic films for inspiration.
But the medium has the need to describe these details because I can't be completely visual, budget.
I thought about being very abstract but I have to test if it could work. Deus Ex Human Revolution had no need to mention these details, bcause of gaemplay perspective and because of animations allowing yo very visually represent, say, your boss being nervous about you finding out something you shouldn't have, just show how tense he is now and such.
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>>20797688
>I really like anon anything. There are a lot of people that don't really get what it's like to live a good chunk of your life that way, so many people just brainlessly putting their name and face on things. I'd love to see what your take is on it.
Not sure I quite understand, anon, but sounds interesting. What exactly do you mean by "There are a lot of people that don't really get what it's like to live a good chunk of your life that way"?
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>>20797930
I mean there are people that don't know what it's like to post on the internet with anonymity and not know who you're talking to either. It's kind of different.
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>>20797559
>Too detailed
That's why I want to know more! I thought an outline should be sparse.
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>>20797914
I still don't understand. You want to write something like this?
It doesn't have to be good, but it'd be very helpful if you could, like, give us a small sample of what you mean
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>>20797914
I'd be interested in learning more, I always wanted to write for a game or VN but doing the script puzzled me. I couldn't figure out how to do it.
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>>20797432
stony water
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>>20797975
Yeah, I'm having trouble with this.
>>20797986
I'm using Articy, besides, there's a lot to learn from the Disco Elysium writers.
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>Write 2000 words
>it's all in a short story
God dammit. That could have been in my books. This weekend flash fiction or short story can really sink words but it works great for keeping me consistent.
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>>20798103
>That could have been in my books
Put it in then
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>>20798103
Think of it like this.
You are writing a short story as a proof of concept which you can then expand on into a full book.
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>>20798130
This is what I'm doing
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>>20795178
fucking kekd
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>>20798014
Then, you should write like you're explaining the scenario to someone "So the hero walks into town. He sees a couple houses, a tower, something that looks like a market... He's wondering where to go when a woman catches his attention. He listens to her sobbing and..." Speak briefly as if your text is at the bottom of a game screen, but write like your words are the game screen
>>
As I wake up i imagine to still be asleep, the blanket having shifted off my body and exposing my floppy and flaccid penis to an observer who believes me unknowing and unconscious, helplessly exposed in my nudity. It is not an exaggeration that this is the very first thing that springs to my mind each morning, as i wake up, as i feel my own nudity, as i slowly move my body to create a compromising view for an imagined person observing me. And i would have to lie if i said that i had not had observers yet. I have flashed a few people in this manner, i have actually gone far enough to share the accounts of my exhibitionist endeavours on the "dickflash" forum. My victims have been various, the obsession has haunted me My mother, my father, a friend and his gf, my best friend, a cousin, my ex, my stepmother. Those are all that come to my mind at the moment. Though of course i have also gone to a variety of nude beaches in the last few years, not interested in any of the nudity exposed to me, exclusively focussed on my own nudity, on being seen and observed and, as i must stress, never in an aroused state. My erection is ugly and shameful, indecent and could only reflect badly back on me. It is the soft and small innocence of my flaccid penis which i wish to have revealed. What also needs to be stressed is that my awareness of being exposed is a deficiency that in a way degrades and ruins the pleasure of exposure. Ideally i would not know that it happened, i would accidentally expose myself while being asleep, a secret exclusive to the observer. Of course it is not practicable, for there can be no joy in something i am not aware off. So i accept that there may be subtle hints, or that i arrange a situation in which i know i will get exposed while the actual act still happening without my knowledge. Durirng my worst phase i was purposefully depriving myself of sleep, so as to fall asleep deeply and unawarely without using a blanket or placing it in such a manner where my own nudity would be guarantued while also knowing that somebody would get into my room. A few days ago me, my father and my stepmother planned an excursion to a museum, due to this we planned to get up earlier than we'd usually would during my visits. Knowing this, and having fantasized about my stepmother seeing me for many years, i arranged everything and fell asleep in an unavoidably nude position. As id have speculated my step mother this time didnt just knock, as shed speculated i wouldnt wake up from it but actually entered the room. I woke up from her knocking but kept still and my eyes closed, my heart almost exploding in only the matter of seconds from the fear and anxiety. I felt her looking shortly, then silently closing the door. 5 minutes later she returned and knocked heavier on the door, this time i feigned waking up and covered myself. But i was so aroused and so guilty, knowing that at last i had shown my innocence to my step mother.
>>
What do you do when you've read over a story so many times that you have the whole thing burned into your mind and it's become a meaningless, emotionless assortment of squiggles?
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>>20798014
I think the key way to pose the problem for your video game context might be, what's the minimum amount of words that will communicate the maximum amount of character and scene information?

Raymond Chandler is great at that kind of flavorful, economical description of micro-level action. Maybe check him out. Some random examples from The Big Sleep:
>Her eyes rounded. She was puzzled. She was thinking. I could see, even on that short acquaintance, that thinking was always going to be a bother to her.
>The old man nodded, as if his neck was afraid of the weight of his head.
>She blew a soft gray smoke ring and poked her finger through. It came to pieces in frail wisps. She spoke smoothly, indifferently.
>He sounded like a man who had slept well and didn't owe too much money.
>The blond flicked a short-barreled gun out and stood pointing it at me. The pug sidled over flatfooted and felt my pockets with care. I turned around for him like a bored beauty modeling an evening gown.
>He didn't say anything. The blonde didn't say anything. I let them chew on it.
>Eddie Mars came through the door with a set indifferent smile on his face, his hands thrust into the pockets of his dinner jacket, both thumbnails glistening outside. He seemed to like that pose.
>The lines of her cheeks sharpened and her hand went up slowly like an artificial hand worked by wires and its fingers closed slowly and stiffly around the white fur at her collar. They drew the fur tight against her throat. After that she just sat staring.

Also, from my scroll-through to find the above quotes, it seems like one of Chandler's secret strategies might be to always give characters a cigarette, a drink, or some random article of clothing to fidget with so that he can describe them doing something without them actually doing anything.
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>>20798248
Delete and rewrite from scratch
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>>20798248
You write something else and come back in a month or more
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Would this intro (pic related) inspire you to want to read the rest of the story?
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Just finished reading Story by Robert McKee. It was actually good! Though very very long.
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>>20798344
I don't know if calamitous is the correct word to describe some guy shoplifting. You could improve on the mix between describing his plot to shoplift and his fantasies with Julie
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>>20798344
The first paragraph intrigued me, but the rest felt overwritten and exposition-heavy, especially given that the exposition was of generic highschool plot points. 'Show don't tell' is obviously corny advice and in no way a universal rule, but I would be more inclined to read on if there had been more showing and less telling.
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>>20798344
I am not into what to me seems like a romance story.
but it does seem competently written, as in without glaring errors to me. Which is a good enough first step.
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>>20798361
Thanks for reading and for the feedback.

>I don't know if calamitous is the correct word to describe some guy shoplifting
The attempt at shoplifting will turn out to be calamitous, though. The reader doesn't know yet how it will end, so I can describe it as it will turn out to be, can't I?

>You could improve on the mix between describing his plot to shoplift and his fantasies with Julie
I don't quite understand what you mean by this. The following parts contain more on his motivation to steal (which is due to his infatuation with Julie)
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>>20798344
stationary -> stationery
So he doesn't even know if she's spoken for?
This sounds pretty incel.
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>>20798377
Thanks for reading and for the feedback.

Could you perhaps give an example of where I could "show" the story/plot more than telling it?
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>>20798378
It's a story about a disastrous attempt at shoplifting. Very little romance involved, bar the protagonist's motivation.

>>20798400
Thanks for the correction. She isn't spoken for, it's simple a case of him being in love with a girl that isn't into him. Typical teenage stuff, not inceldom.
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>>20798403
>Could you perhaps give an example of where I could "show" the story/plot more than telling it?
Well, coming up with those scenarios would involve knowing some more about the plot, but you could have the key info communicated in a scene with Kevin and his friends out and about in town, preparing for the party, and bumping into/awkwardly trying to avoid Julie and her own friends.
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>>20798431
The story revolves around the attempt at shoplifting and how disastrously wrong it goes. I had to build up the reasons for him shoplifting in the first place, but I always felt like it was a little clunky, like I was doing too much explaining. But every other angle I tried just seemed to give too little information. It's a tricky balance I can't seem to get right.

This is the second part of the story, maybe it clears things up a little.
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>>20798360
thank you for your service, anon
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>>20798460
Thanks for expanding on it. I can see why building up this almost obsessive motivation for the shoplifting is important.

Maybe my response comes from the sense of the first paragraph teasing a shoplifting caper, and then being denied it with a description of his high school crush (similar to what this guy >>20798361 said about wanting a mix between the plot to shoplift and the fantasies).
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>>20798344
the show/tell dichotomy is a meme
the awkwardness comes when it seems like the author is reminding himself what the story is about
rework that second paragraph, it takes way too long to actually understand what the sentence is trying to say
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>>20798482
My initial plan was to start the story off with the protagonist in the shop, ready to steal and then switching back and forth from him in the shop to the events that led up to him being there.

But for some reason, my brain simply melted every time I tried to write it out that way. I went for a very straightforward structure/timeline instead. The ending is definitely the better half of it, because that's the part where all the action is. The build-up to me comes across as very clunky, but I'm having trouble writing it any other way.
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>>20797584
skipped it half way through. the constant back and forth is monotonous. that is a negative thing for me, although perhaps it was part of your intent, idk. i enjoyed the scene detail at the top, and you chose a tasteful font. the back and forth is quite snappy and amusing at times, but as i say, too much of it for me
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>>20796713
That the Start Writing Fiction course lad? Completed it mate
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>>20798487
>the awkwardness comes when it seems like the author is reminding himself what the story is about
That's a good piece of advice, thanks.

I would be interested to see how you would write that second paragraph. If you have the time, please post it.
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>>20796495
such an excellent cover. he fucking aced that.
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>>20798506
maybe something like this:
Kevin's foray into shoplifting was born of a similar perilous mix that spawned most of the calamitous endeavors he embarked on as a teenager: no money, no sense, and far too much free time, but never before had he eschewed the law-abiding principles that his mother drummed into him from an early age—not until he met Julie.
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>>20798560
Thanks for that. I quite like it. In fact, your paragraph could almost replace my entire intro.

See, that's my problem: I feel like everything needs to be explained or else the reader won't understand. How do I trim my writing down to the bare essentials without sacrificing too much?

Once again thanks, I really appreciate your input.
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>>20798463
hey thanks :)
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>>20798393
What I mean is that you would describe summoning an eldritch demon as "calamitous", while a shoplift gone wrong would be described as "awful". Does you highschool idiot character have the literacy to even know what calamitous is?
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>>20798659
>What I mean is that you would describe summoning an eldritch demon as "calamitous"
I have no idea what an eldritch demon is, but the attempt at shoplifting causes him to nearly castrate himself and crawl through the shop naked, something I would certainly consider disastrous enough to be dubbed calamitous.

>Does you highschool idiot character have the literacy to even know what calamitous is?
Why would he need to? He's not the one telling the story.
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>>20798344
>Prompting Kevin to eschew
stopped reading right here
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>>20798787
Why? Is it too flowery?
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>>20798793
Yes. And awkward. That whole sentence is an overwritten disaster.
prompting
eschew
foray
perilous
spawned
calamitous endeavors
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>>20798807
Thanks for reading some more and for the feedback. How would you have written it?
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>>20798344
My main gripe is largely a matter of personal taste. While words and phrases like 'eschew', 'maiden foray', 'lascivious' and 'calamitous endeavours' certainly have a place and a time, using them in such high quantities over the course of five paragraphs makes your writing that much more dense, and starts veering into purple prose territory or makes it look like you've intentionally picked apart a thesaurus to make your prose more flowery. It feels overwritten. I'd cut down on the verbose prose a bit and try to make the voice more fitting to what comes across as a story of a dopey lovestruck kid and his teenage dream. I can tell from both your post and replies to other anons that you have a very refined way of writing / typing which I really quite like, it just feels like its a bit mismatched for the story you're trying to tell.
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>>20798866
Empty pockets and an empty infatuation with a girl who barely knew his name spurred him on. The metal, burnished and heavy, weighing on each hand, and his mother's voice weighing on his heart. "Don't take that, it doesn't belong to you. Just get some rocks. You're stupid like your father."
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>>20798870
Thank you for your comment, you have summed it up very well. Back to drawing board.

I think my overwritten tendency comes from my own dislike of authors who eschew (my apologies) the idea of motivating or explaining their characters' behaviour and demand their readers to simply go along with the character's behaviour even when it is implausible or unconvincing. That, for me, at least, kills the veracity of the story.

Anyway, thanks again for your notes. Here's the part where he nearly castrates himself. Don't feel obliged to read it, I just wanted to give you the juicy bits after your nice comment.
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>>20799016
This is fine.
The only thing I'd change is to simplify the girl's line of dialogue.
"I'm sorry, could you give me a hand with these boxes?"

You may even want to eschew the words 'I'm sorry' depending on her character.
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>>20799043
That's a good point. Again, I'm thankful for all the feedback. I'm reading parts of the story again and the over the top descriptions and writing is making me cringe, which is a good thing because it means I'm making a bit of progress.

And eschew better mention us in his speech when he picks up his word of the year award.
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>>20799043
One quick question: how would you go about re-writing a story like this?

Read it from start to finish and then start writing from scratch?

Edit every paragraph, parsing them and merging them where possible?
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>>20795382
>>20792675
>>20790969
>>20790470
Appreciate the feedback, I'll try and write something a little more substatial one of these days.
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>>20799110
Does it really need a rewrite? The problem you may be having is that you spend the initial opener using "The Author Voice" That is, you explain word of god from on high what is going on instead of letting the characters muck around and do their things. Stories are comprised of characters with goals trying to achieve them. Yes, there's a message you're trying to get across while writing it, but readers are primarily interested in characters and their motivations. Try to get away from the author voice and let the characters' actions and dialogue speak for themselves.

*Note that there is obviously a time and place for The Author Voice, but it's almost never in the beginning of the story. That shit repels readers.
>>
What's a believable way of showing my main character mentally losing it and having his sense of identity slowly corrode without it seeming like out of a blockbuster film?
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>>20799148
Once again your comments are absolutely spot on. Thank you. You're translating what I've felt in my gut since I started writing this damned thing.

I meant a rewrite as in change what needs changing, i.e. the convoluted, flowery language, the overkill of exposition, etc. I feel like there is a funny story in there somewhere but that what I've written needs to be trimmed down and distilled until there is only the sharp, concise, action-packed essence of it left.
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>>20799171
Start to have him make odd choices. Things he wouldn't normally do. Ramp up these odd choices.
>>
>watching a movie about a family going on a trip across the country to attend a funeral
>it's unsettling, sad, genuinely scary, and poignant
>wake up
>try to remember when i watched that movie before remembering that the last one i watched was street trash like a month ago
>realize i wasn't watching a real movie
>forget most of it right after
Fuck me. I legit thought I was going insane for a second, and now I can't even put it down on paper.
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>>20799177
I'm writing a much longer piece than a short story. Almost done! Almost ready to start drafting the sequel with a new POV character.
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/40361/erased
The way I approach editing each chapter, roughly 3k words each, is to do a once over. I have goals I need to achieve for each one while maintaining character voice. I focus on simplifying, first. Drafting can get messy. I then change the medium I use to edit. So I draft using openoffice and then I copy paste to RR's posting thing to read it again. It may sound stupid doing that, but it gives it a different perspective.

Sometimes - not often - but sometimes I find a draft requires a major rewrite. Like 50% of the chapter needs to be reworded. That is not the norm - be confident in your voice. Like I said, I like the later part of the story when you're in the thick of things, but you need to get the opening to match.
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>>20799235
I love when one of my dreams has literary possibilities.
Unfortunate that it's so rare.
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I'm literally no expert, I barely read, but here's my shot at trying to be constructive
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>>20799274
I just had three good interconnected dreams in the past three months and the last one finally motivated me to start writing again.
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>>20799274
>>20799296
I saved one of my mine once but I'm not well read enough to write the protagonist my subconsciousness picked.
It also had too many anime-esque elements to not turn it into a comic.
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Does anyone else have a huge problem with getting bogged down by fairly minor details? Like right now, I have this fantastical/magic realism story in mind - so it takes place in a world similar to ours, but not exactly. And now I'm not sure just how similar or how different it should be. For example: should the place my protags are from be faithfully based on a real world location or should I just mix and match inspirations as I see fit? And if I do that, just how far should I go with it?
Or, if I'm using real world cultures as the basis of their culture, should I pick one group as inspiration or can I go with a mixing pot?
Basically, I already have a general idea of what I want with the setting and cultural influences. And I know the story, what the characters are like, etc. But the specifics are tripping me up.
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>>20799375
>I have all these ideas
How much have you written? Because all that high level shit is unfortunately worthless. Yeah when you're in the middle of the story you'll have big rules you have sort of set in stone as to how the world works, but who cares? Focus on the granular, on the character sitting in his room drinking mad dog 20/20, the grape flavor, with a shotgun in hand.
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>>20799375
It's all up to how you wanna write.
I keep a detailed backstory for every main character that covers their life. My current project is set about 50 years in the future and most of the cast is in or around their early 30s. I also have planned a timeline of major world events leading to the year the story is set in, and will occasionally tweak it. Locations that exist have their own histories as well.
However nearly none of it is immediately pertinent to the actual story and probably won't ever get explicitly mentioned, and more of a reference for myself.
Just do what you feel comfortable with.
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>>20795307
My standalone fantasy epic in editing is 260k, is it too long? I plan on using a slightly small print, large trim size, and thin groundwood pages to make the book look and feel regular-sized.
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>>20799274
The book I'm working on now came from a dream.
It was one of those that come right as you're waking up. I watched two figures in silhouette against a red sunset, in a knife duel to the death. When the duel was over I very slowly woke up as all the details of these peoples' story and their world flooded through my brain. I'm a little worried it was prophetic.
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>>20799456
nah you're not even 50% longer than Dune
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>>20799479
Excellent
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>>20799375
> getting bogged down by fairly minor details?

yeah, i have this problem right now. i'm at a point where there is so much stuff going on and i have to pick my way through it all while making it entertaining
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>>20799580
You can write whatever the fuck you want but no one is obligated to read it.
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ESL here.
My grammar is shit. I can't write.
Where do I start
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I made it.
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>>20799878
Read a lot of things in english
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>can't stop writing smut and violence in my thriller book
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>reach word goal
>the next day I delete over 500 words of material on account of it no longer fitting in with the rest
>have to write over 500 words extra just to catch up to where I was yesterday
Did I learn to kill my darlings?
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>redeemed character's child commits a similar crime simply to understand where they were coming from
Is this a good motivation for a character, and adding some gray to the ideal of redemption?
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>>20790009
I don't think we should have a pro/cons list in the OP. It makes it seem like this list is complete and accurate.
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>>20800015
>simply to understand where they were coming from
sounds extremely unrealistic. as far as motivation for committing the same crime as the parent I'd go with the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree
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I write <500 words most mornings before I go to work. However, this feels like such a slow pace that I don't really remember what I've written chapters ago, sometimes even in the same chapter. I have chapter summaries that I use as a reference, but don't always stick to. Does anyone have any experience combatting this? Any cool systems for note taking or something?
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>>20795355
>>20795355
That guy had an arm like a leg
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>>20800137
Write more.
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>>20800242
Can only manage ~500 in the morning before work.
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>>20800137
being able to forget quickly is a blessing that will help you when you edit because you can gain distance from your work.
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>>20800376
Perhaps then I should just continue despite having a hazy memory and fix it when editing.
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>>20790107
Invite people to send criticism to your address
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>>20800485
Terrible as always.
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>>20790009
i am still reading your mind and what youre saying is: WHYYYYY WHY WONT HE JUST DIE WHYY WHY WHY WHY EVERY SINGLE TIME I THINK I HAVE HIM HE ESCAPES WITHIN AN INCH OF HIS LIFE HOW WHY IS THIS HAPPENING WHYYY THIS CANT BE WHYYYYY
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>>20798344
>>20798344
Your first clause is wrong. 'unlike most first time shoplifters, kevin's TARGET.' You're saying the weight was unlike other shoplifters.

>'eschew' 'peculiar maiden foray' 'calamitous endeavors'
Are you trying to write like a pompous asshole on purpose?
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I can post but for some reason I'm blocked from baking threads. Go on without me bros
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>>20800958
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>>20799016
How do I do this?
I internalized "Don't start a story with dialogue" and I fall flat out of the gate.
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>>20800133
>sounds extremely unrealistic.
Oh, really? H-haha...



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