Books to learn more about the CCP?
>>19458848Pretty sure Christianity has had an influence on the world 100000000x as big as Marxism.
>>19458848>inb4 butters >inb4 “China is based and fascist guys”>inb4 the CCP shill avatarfagFuck off. We have this thread every other day. Go look in the archive for the last thread, I promise you this one will be the same exact thing.
>no theory can match Marxism in terms of ... truth ... . This proves the truth ... in Marxism.Sounds like this Xi guy needs to take an introductory philosophy course lmao
>>19458848The go to introduction for modern China in general is Spence's Search For Mao in particular, Yang Jisheng Anyone who pretends to know how the CCP works nowadays is lying to you The government is incredibly opaque and never leaks, even the USSR had more leaks Xi's collection of speeches is probably a series of coded death threats
>>19458848Wang Huning is talked about quite favourably every so often, threads on him are usually very insightful.
just read Manju Baturu @SolBrahmin twitter feedhttps://briarpod.net/governor-general-manju-baturu
>>19459531I don't like China but I have to admit this is difficult to refute. Blacks, Jews and homosexual degenerates. Generally all these people care about is the destruction of their respective countries' values, destruction of native population, destruction of culture. China at least is trying to further its own agency, although I'm sure it's corrupt as fuck and not nearly as rosy as it tries to project.
>>19458848Mao's China, certified copy of the bourgeois capitalist society: https://www.quinterna.org/lingue/english/historical_en/maos_china_certified_copy.htm
>>19458848Im confused, out of all places why are chinky winks shilling their garbage in this place?
>>19458871being influential doesn't make something good, right now christianity is as good for humanity as league of legends is
>>19458848Mobo Gao - The Battle For China's PastMaurice J. Meisner - Mao's China and After
>>19458848>praised marxism>doesn't practice marxismWhat did Xi mean by this
>>19459988Read the fucking quote you retard.
>>19460074you do know practicing marxism doesnt just mean creating a semi-planned economy based on a vulgar codified marxism-leninism, right?
>>19460074>marx smart>me smarter
>>19460329Sure, but it also doesn't mean building the strongest capitalist economy in human history
>>19459857because it makes (you) seethe
>>19459523are there any other stuff from him available in english other than "America against America" and those three essays from readingthechinadream website? i'd also be interested in secondary sources
>>19458848Is this even a real quote? I feel like the CCP only calls itself Marxist still to maintain legitimacy.
>>19459709Why are you CCP admirers all anti-Black when the CCP spends a good chunk of time/effort trying to portray themselves as a group very friendly to Africans?
>>19458848Han Feihttp://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=3EA0EE54286F2C72B95A665DC2BE797BThis guy makes Machiavelli look like Benjamin Franklin
>>19460732If you haven't watched Empire of Dust yet you really should. It's up on YouTube.
>>19460732>Why are you CCP admirersI don't admire the CCP, I'm fucking terrified of it. But that point is pretty much valid. China is factually growing exponentially, while the West, after all this Covid shit, seems to be concerned about tranny rights, diversity, letting hordes of rapefugees in that we don't have the resources, time, energy to handle, and a million other things that come to the direct detriment of the native population. In this moment we need strong ethics, stability, unity, and so on. We don't need to foster institutional racism against whites and the destruction of our heritage, and the replacement of native populations with illiterate criminals. It's impossible to say that what we're doing right now in the West is aligned with Western people's well-being.I think China is committing many atrocities, it's obviously a totalitarian shithole, but I wouldn't say that what it's doing is against Chinese people's interests. How do you refute that?
>>19460732There are not enough Africans in china to even show up as a rounding error in their demographics
>>19460875The same people who promote immigration promote whites having fewer or no kids. Really makes one think
>>19460772>Literally 1 dude vs all of Chinese state propagandaCome on now>>19460850>>19460879China, sooner than you think, will be opening its doors to mass immigration, which will mostly be coming from Africa. If they do not, they'll peak and decline in terms of military and economic power. >>19460889It's simple; whites are utter retards and will act against their self-interests whenever given the chance. Keep in mind that NGOs staffed by whites are literally helping migrants cross the Mediterranean and English Channel. I don't pretend to understand it.
>>19460899That will have precisely zero effect on fertility, which they know, and dont care about since the bill is just pork and the DNC openly celebrate whites becoming a minority
>>19460875>you aren't doing your partOh I did my part. I have always had LTRs, declined all opportunities for casual sex, and I was loyal until the end in all my relationships, unlike the women. I was fairly happy with the idea of marrying someone and having a job and maybe kids until it was completely destroyed in me. Excuse me but I'm not going to marry and maintain a used up post-wall harlot and reward her with a kid whom I'll have submit to tranny education camp.
>>19460909>If they do not, they'll peak and decline in terms of military and economic power.And?
>>19460909You're missing a key ingredient which is why you're confused by the behavior of whites, but something tells me you wont want to talk about it. If China actually imports 10s of millions of Africans they will just reproduce Africa in pockets in their country which wont help them much
>expels god from countryYeah I’m sure this will end well for them in the end. It usually does historically
>>19460074Marxism and the Chinese belong together like a hand and a glove. Look into the history of Chinese thought. The explosive growth in China is a result of its wholehearted embrace of Marxism in the 20th century, and the general materialist worldview that Marxism is predicated upon. Contrary to the opinions of unread pseuds, Xi Jinping is actually an extreme orthodox Marxist. Deng Xiaoping Theory is a result of the Chinese actually understanding Marxism. If one reads even basic works such as The Communist Manifesto, we will see that capitalism is both celebrated and condemned for the explosive growth of industry and the productive forces and for the destruction of the vestiges of the old systems and ways and life. What China has been doing for the last few decades is purely Marxist, i.e. developing the productive forces of the Chinese economy in order to transition into socialism. They see that they must exert control over the commanding heights of the economy, just like what happened under Lenin in the NEP phase of the USSR, except they are engaging on an extended NEP in order to change the material conditions to allow the establishment of communism.China will establish communism, unlike failed underdeveloped agricultural shitholes like Cambodia and the USSR from the 20th century
>>19460909What do you know about Chinese mining operations in Africa?I'm pretty sure you know that an Chinese employee said that it was all so tiresome. You can go far with that info.
>>19460346Yes it does. You need to reach the limit of capitalism in order to go beyond it. Read Marx you fucking poser
>>19460909>China, sooner than you think, will be opening its doors to mass immigration, which will mostly be coming from Africa. If they do not, they'll peak and decline in terms of military and economic power.Why would this be the case? Did 19th century Britain open its doors to mass Indian immigration? Colonial backflow is the sort of thing that happens to dying empires,, not rising ones.
>>19460982China would also have 0 issues with genocide.
>>19460981Then what was the point of the whole Mao era lol?
>>19460981this is just a braindead excuse to justify a capitalist state indefinitely and call it socialism because "we're yet to reach the limit of capitalism". Marx clearly believed the West was ready for socialism in the second part of the 1800s and so did Lenin just bit later. and you should go on and compare the level of economic development of those countries at that time with China in 2020. you stupid fucking moron. come up with something less immediately nonsensical at least.>>19460994spurring industrialization in order to transition to developed capitalism. China was never about socialism after the revolution had been smothered in 1927.
>>19461204Unironically trust the plan. The CCP says China will be ready to move to socialism by 2050. Until then they will be state capitalist.
>>19461221I'm gonna consider this satire
>>19458848Read everything right here:https://archive.org/details/@dutchmzt
>>19461269It's literally what the CCP says they are aiming to do.
>>19461204>Marx clearly believed the West was ready for socialism in the second part of the 1800s and so did Lenin just bit later.Both were dumb. Socialism is not possible without an AI system capable of running a planned economy.
>>19461290Ah yes. The trustworthy CCP.
>>19458871no, not at all. marxist regimes took up a third of the globe at one point and marxism still has a large influence on the humanities and social sciences unlike christianity
>>19461323Are you even a communist, or just a concern troll trying to dilute faith in the CPC? Trust the vanguard party, they are leading us to socialism.
>>19461344Christians are still billion strong and its been around more than 10 times longer than marxism. Not to mention that Marxism emerged from christian civilization and secular morals are heavily indebted to christianity still
>>19461221>trust the ruling class to press the socialism button, btw i'm totally marxist
>>19461370>Christians are still billion strongi mean marxists probably outnumber this just by virtue of china's size alone
>>19461394They're comparable in size, I did mean to write 2 billion
>>19461296please stop reading cockshott i beg you
>>19461402>cockshottWhat is wrong with anglos? Why do they choose names like this?
>Mao's red guard target his family>sister commits suicide, father gets arrested>escapes to a village at age 15>lives in a cave doing peasantry work and hates it>gets back to Beijing only to get arrested and sent to a work camp in the same village>eventually joins the CCP after being rejected 10 times>goes on to study Marxist philosophy after finishing his degree in chemical engineering>now successfuly leads the same communist party that fucked up his childhood Yeah I'm thinking he's based
>>19461466Is he the modern Caesar?
Why is it that CCP never learn the language and move to China?Because they know that they would have even less rights, even more censorship and invasion of privacy, even more though policing with China’s social credit score and to top it all off worse economic conditions. I hate America as much as be next guy but China is neither the practical nor moral alternative.
>>19461516>Why is it that CCP never learn the language and move to China?I'm pretty sure the CCP is in china
>>19461516Assuming you meant CCP shills/leftypol posters, then you make a valid point. I think it is because these people are completely disconnected from the actual costs of implementing the ideology they love so much. I've seen posters on this board who post about how great the CCP is admitting they don't want to move there because YouTube would be censored. Huh? That's where you draw the line? But it just goes to show that for most CCP (communists in general, and I suppose right-wing radicals as well) fans in the West see their support of the CCP in the same light as rooting for a sports team. As long as there's a communist China out there, they'll support it because they like communism. The minute they face some of the real consequences of communism, their support collapses.
>>19461516>>19461598You two both know that permanently emigrating to china is basically impossible this isn't the USA the CCP doesn't really allow that.
>>19461658I'm not saying they should actually move to China. I recognize that there are barriers to that. But if you are saying "I support the CCP and communism", you should at least WANT to live in China. If you don't want to because you don't want censorship of things like movies or games, perhaps you shouldn't be as supportive of the CCP as you seem to be.
>>19458848>extol virtues of marxism>exploit others anyway
>>19461290yeah, but they don't actually believe it themselves. when the bourgeoisie uses it as a weapon for the preservation of its own dominance then it's actually pretty smart. it's only retarded when useful idiots and white internet children genuinely believe it. so retarded that it can't be distinguished from satire
>>19460850>I'm fucking terrified of it.fucking kek just go back to /r/eddit
>>19461828>They are just lying guysCome on now anon. You don't put this much effort into a lie. If they weren't actually communist, explain all the communist imagery and references to Marx. There's an anon who is absolutely obsessed with the CCP, he'll come and link a ton of CCP celebrations sooner or later. All are rife with communist imagery, and Xi namedrops communists like Marx, Mao, Stalin and Lenin all the time. Explain that.
>>19461376>doesn't understand that the socialist button was hit a long time ago
>>19461854Their political legitimacy is founded on Maoist communism. Caesar never declared himself emperor
>>19461854>If they weren't actually communist, explain all the communist imagery and references to Marx.no problem, I'll have Lenin explain it to you:>Marx's doctrines are now undergoing the same fate which, more than once in the course of history, has befallen the doctrines of other revolutionary thinkers and leaders of oppressed classes struggling for emancipation. During the lifetime of great revolutionaries, the oppressing classes have invariably meted out to them relentless persecution, and received their teaching with the most savage hostility, most furious hatred, and a ruthless campaign of lies and slanders. After their death, however, attempts are usually made to turn them into harmless saints, canonising them, as it were, and investing their name with a certain halo by way of "consolation" to the oppressed classes, and with the object of duping them, while at the same time emasculating and vulgarising the real essence of their revolutionary theories and blunting their revolutionary edge. At the present time the bourgeoisie and the opportunists within the labour movement are co-operating in this work of adulterating Marxism. They omit, obliterate, and distort the revolutionary side of its teaching, its revolutionary soul, and push to the foreground and extol what is, or seems, acceptable to the bourgeoisie.
>>19461918Interesting, but as China is communist it doesn't apply.
>>19462063China is capitalist
>>19462069No, it's not. It's *literally* a "People's Republic" controlled by a communist party.
I think our guys still for China as a more authentic shill for Trump, because it actively steams people at home who mutually hate each other. That being said, I'd appreciate a any accurate take on Chinese governor and society and their social strategy going forward, which due to ideological constraints that make their way into the economy is absolutely forbidden in the US/Anglosphere.For instance an American book would say Mao was bloodthirsty and the GLF was to secure his own power yet fumbling and incompetent. A Chinese book might say the GLF was poorly handled but purged the society of its detritus and subversive elements. Both can be true.
>>19462080>if the permanent unelected ruling class just calls themselves communist then its communist despite the economy being very obviously capitalist to the point there are thousands of billionaires and private industry is now a majority and grows each year Commies are endlessly amusing
>>19462080Meanwhile in realityhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0QD3OWqWKM&ab_channel=SouthChinaMorningPost
>>19462129Personally I think the whole cap comm debate is a nonstarter. Jews control liberal capitalism and are butthurt that Chinese control China. That's really tue long and short of it.
>>19462129>>19462141>Communism is when you are poorYou guys are retards. China is communist. They use Communist imagery and thought in everything they do.
>>19462145For instance anyone could just as easily say real capitalism has never been tried because a centralized oligarchy quickly seizes control of as much of society as is technologically in their means to seize and begins dictating economic terms to the point of a command economy. The whole economic as central point debate is Jewish, imo.
>>19462157>communism is when you use imagery
>>19462121I don't know any book that you can read on this that would satisfy your want for unbiasedness though but the CPC themselves recognize the mistakes of Mao, and have largely adhered to Deng Xiaoping’s declaration that Mao was “70 per cent right and 30 per cent wrong”.
>>19462157>communism is when you buy expensive american capitalist products
>>19462141>communism is when no iphone
>>19462157Yeah they like those western Gucci
>>19462163"Real capitalism" existed mostly under monarchies and old style republics. All the democratic states have basically been run by financial cartels that massively obstruct capitalism
>>19462184>communism is when you buy expensive capitalist products from western capitalist countries
>>19462193Do you not see the hammers and sickles?
>>19462171Yeah. You basically have to read both sides of a politically contentious history and wait until each side says the quiet part out loud. I mean to this day your politics in modern America still influence whether you want to give a more favorable analysis to Athens or Sparta in the Peloponnesian War.
>>19462204no one said it is you fuck tard LMAO
>>19462222>words words wordsLeft can't meme
>>19462222>if the government regulates the capitalist economy that makes it communism
>>19462213I see the super expensive brand Gucci, yeah.
>>19462194I'm more partial to EMJ's take of capitalism as state sponsored usury to gain an edge over other states. These old world monarchies would have been too socially static to be considered capitalist in any modern sense.It goes back to what these other guys ITT are saying if capitalism is when iphone communism is when no iphone.My only horse in the race is who's actually in charge and what are they doing to you. I don't think that's a very interesting topic to any actually Chinese person because it's a given that their rulers are Chinese and dictating Chinese terms to Chinese people in China, which I believe is why they have a more apathetic approach to these issues.
>>19461344Are you serious? Christianity dominated Europe and it’s colonies for 1500 years while Marxism wasn’t relevant until the 20th century.
>>19462229bruh you are straight up retarded if you think that's a lot of words. are you a /pol/ tourist or are you just feeding into the /lit/ doesn't read meme>>19462240read theory on a subject before engaging in discourse on a subject - cheers!
>>19462256Capitalism is not anything more than wage labor, private property, and markets in its most rudimentary form, usury is a different thing. Capitalism is obviously not a political system, you can have it under various forms of sovereign.Marxists use capitalism in an extremely vague way that clarifies nothing and I don't know why you would go along with it
>>19462272>cant respond to what I said>resorts to "read theory"Oh no no no
>>19462272>are you a /pol/ tourist>posts a lefty/pol/ imageNazis and commies both get the bullet equally.
>>19462284>resorts to "read theory"unironically yes, if I had to explain ABCs to every retard on here I'd have my work cut out for me>>19462292based status quo enjoyer who holds fascists and commies equally
>>19462311If you've gotten to the point where you cant even respond and are just going to spam images and stock phrases this quickly I dont think you're really cut out for this.
>>19462321>NOOOO waste time debunking the same simple again and again and again because I'm too lazy to readseethe and read
>>19462342Except you're going to waste your time spamming images and greentext arent you. You dont have anything better to do, you just can't make an argument in reply to what was said lel
>>19462354yeah it's way easier
>>19462368It is hard to argue when you're in the wrong, I sympathize
The book Wilfull Blindness is a good start.
>>19462277No one who espouses capitalism will also differentiate from usury or apply your definitions. The battle of words being lost so long ago, having any sentimentality for capitalism can only mean also opening yourself up to iphone good no iphone bad arguments within a kosher modernity. I don't really care about economic systems so much as who's in charge.No white guy here wants to live as a Chinese because it's a Chinese system for Chinese people, we just want ours for us.
>>19462375kek im content not giving a shit about the opinions of those who dont read easy texts
>>19462392>because it's a Chinese system for Chinese peopleCommunism is not an ideology with a racial angle to it. As China is communist, it is not racist.
>>19462395You're so content that you keep responding while being incapable of making an argument lel
>>19462392You want to government to outlaw you having private property, being able to sell and buy, and engage in wage labor? Because that's what being anti capitalism comes down to.
>>19462410Not a lot of black people there though kek
>>19462414yeah dude did you not read what i said
>>19462440>yet another reply with no argument Hes breaking out the passive aggressive "dude"s now
>>19462410>As China is communist, it is not racist.True, the future of china is BLACK.
>>19462437For now. China will open up to mass immigration in time. They're in Africa for a reason.
>>19462471They're in africa to get resources from it. If they have even a whit of sense they won't do what the west did with their colonies
>>19462080>people's republicso a bourgeois state after all?>>19462157I don't know anon. I'm still going to pretend that this is satire from someone who's actually read like The German Ideology, the 18th Brumaire and the Preface to a Contibution and is doing this on purpose>>19462163>For instance anyone could just as easily say real capitalism has never been triedthey could but they would be wrong. capitalism is production based on hiring wage labour in order to increase a sum of value. whether the world economy has your evil jewish oligarchies and dirigisme or not is completely immaterial to whether it functions on a capitalist basis.>>19462194>that massively obstruct capitalismthey execute it, not obstruct. call me when those financial cartels make it so that making more money out of money becomes a less dominant activity in the world in terms of social production, not more dominant.>>19462272>>19462222>>if the government regulates the capitalist economy that makes it communism>read theory on a subject before engaging in discourse on a subject - cheers!here's your theory:>And the modern state, again, is only the organisation that bourgeois society takes on in order to support the general external conditions of the capitalist mode of production against the encroachments as well of the workers as of individual capitalists. The modern state, no matter what its form, is essentially a capitalist machine, the state of the capitalists, the ideal personification of the total national capital.but apparently now supporting the general external conditions of the capitalist mode of production against the encroachments of individual capitalists is proof of socialism
>>19462595>supporting the general external conditions of the capitalist mode of production against the encroachments of individual capitalists is proof of socialismYes. You can't have the socialist stage without the capitalist stage running to its completion. China is making sure that happens.
>>19462595>they execute it, not obstruct. call me when those financial cartels make it so that making more money out of money becomes a less dominant activity in the world in terms of social production, not more dominant.They have made it significantly harder to create value though the system of wage labor, private property, and markets, within the countries in which they operate, through various forms of fraud, usury, regulations, etc. Defining capitalism as "capital making more capital" is not useful at all when we need to distinguish the actual productive element in capitalist economies.
>>19458848First of all, it's called the CPC, the term "CCP" is a western chauvinist dogwhistle.
>>19461296>socialism = planned economylmao
>>19462620the "capitalist stage" runs to its completion with the proletariat overthrowing bourgeois rule and abolishing private property. yet the Chinese state has an extensive apparatus of oppression to make sure that this doesn't happen.>>19462622>They have made it significantly harder to create value though the system of wage laborno they haven't. the system of exploitation has only been perfected. I don't deny that capitalism undermines itself and through its own functioning creates inevitably obstacles for itself, but I don't know what this has to do with anything.>Defining capitalism as "capital making more capital" is not useful at all when we need to distinguish the actual productive element in capitalist economies.we have distinguished it like 300 years ago
>>19462707Are you simply going to ignore the actual productive element, which I outlined to you as the system of wage labor, private property, and markets? That's what pro capitalists refer to when they praise it, simply defining the word in a different way does not address the issue.You have an incredibly myopic view of power to understand something like the creation of the federal reserve as "capitalism undermining itself" rather than a criminal cartel instituting a massive system of fraud that obstructs markets.
>>19462707>the "capitalist stage" runs to its completion with the proletariat overthrowing bourgeois rule and abolishing private propertyUnless you want things to go to hell, you need to build up the productive forces completely, and create the groundwork for a centralized planned economy. That is what China is doing. As for the proletariat overthrowing bourgeois rule and abolishing private property? That happened in 1949. China is a communist country, just in the capitalist stage of development.
>>19462723>Are you simply going to ignore the actual productive element, which I outlined to you as the system of wage labor, private property, and markets?those are just aspects of capitalism. what's your point?>That's what pro capitalists refer to when they praise it, simply defining the word in a different way does not address the issue.I'm not defining it in a different way. private property plus the current level of productive means wage labour and markets, wage labour means capital, and capital means making more money out of money by using wage labour. you're talking about the same thing as I am, you're just confused because you don't understand how the concepts you're using are interconnected.>>19462726productive forces are never built completely. the Erfurt Program from 1891 says that "the powers of productivity have grown beyond society’s control, that the private ownership of the means of production has become incompatible with their appropriate application and full development". Lenin called Western capitalism after 1876 "highly developed and 'overripe'". but apparently the great China in 2020 is more backwards than 1890s Germany. save this bullshit for the 50 iq idiots who'll buy it.>As for the proletariat overthrowing bourgeois rule and abolishing private property? That happened in 1949.you can't own property in China? okay then. good job, your strategy of saying random ridiculous shit to tire me out out the conversation has worked.
>>19462839>you can't own property in China?Unironically no, you can't. You're leasing it from the government.
>>19461370Nobody in West besides American evangelicals really care about Christianity anymore.
>>19460074Be a Confucianist in appearance, but be a Legalist in practice, like Zhuge Liang told Liu Bei.
>>19462839Those are not aspects of it, they are its core, you dont have capitalism without those things.Explain to me what the federal reserve or the civil rights act have to do with wage labor, private property, and markets. How are these things just "capitalism" to you? Is someone stealing money from a bank also "capitalism"? Do you not care about the vast difference in government structure between 17th century Netherlands and 21st century USA, the latter is just a "late" version of the former because they both had mostly capitalist economies? Why does capitalism produce different results in different countries, why does Israel not have civil rights act or mass immigration?
>>19462938>Chinese billionaires and CEOs keep disappearing in 'state-sanctioned abductions'Absolute madman
>>19462595umm sweaty./...,/,... did you accidentally leave out the rest of the paragraph? or did you think I just wouldn't call you out on your bullshit?>... The more it proceeds to the taking over of productive forces, the more does it actually become the national capitalist, the more citizens does it exploit. The workers remain wage-workers — proletarians. The capitalist relation is not done away with. It is rather brought to a head. But, brought to a head, it topples over. State ownership of the productive forces is not the solution of the conflict, but concealed within it are the technical conditions that form the elements of that solution. >This solution can only consist in the practical recognition of the social nature of the modern forces of production, and therefore in the harmonising of the modes of production, appropriation, and exchange with the socialised character of the means of production And this can only come about by society openly and directly taking possession of the productive forces which have outgrown all control except that of society as a whole. The social character of the means of production and of the products today reacts against the producers, periodically disrupts all production and exchange, acts only like a law of nature working blindly, forcibly, destructively. But with the taking over by society of the productive forces, the social character of the means of production and of the products will be utilised by the producers with a perfect understanding of its nature, and instead of being a source of disturbance and periodical collapse, will become the most powerful lever of production itself. let's see what marx had to say about early communist society in the critque of the gotha programme>What we have to deal with here [in analyzing the programme of the workers' party] is a communist society, not as it has developed on its own foundations, but, on the contrary, just as it emerges from capitalist society; which is thus in every respect, economically, morally, and intellectually, still stamped with the birthmarks of the old society from whose womb it comes. those two quotes seem to come together nicely, don't they? who'da thunk marx and engels had thought about this a little bit eh? nice try
>>19463101Oh shit, this is why the TikTok CEO resigned, isn't it?
>>19461344Christianity has inexorable shaped every grain of our lives, while Marxism is just one thinker's influence and a few failed states. Empires come and go.