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Any books to gain sympathy for the poor? I honestly don’t see them as human like a 34 year old working at McDonald’s life has no value to me
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It'll come to you naturally once you're an adult
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>>19457685
How about you get one of those jobs for a few decades. For the health insurance
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>>19457685
>like a 34 year old working at McDonald’s life has no value to me
Same. How do they even get to that point? How does someone in their 30s have no marketable skills? Even worse when you see people in their 40s or 50s doing minimum wage work. Like these people must just spend every moment of their life watching TV or something.
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>>19457685
The Grapes of Wrath
The Road to Wigan Pier
Les Miserables
Discourse on Inequality
If you don’t feel bad for the poor you’re a piece of shit, plain and simple.
You’re incapable of putting yourself in their shoes (or lack thereof), not everyone gets afforded the same opportunities in this society.
With rising cost of everything some literally do not have the money to put themselves through university or to even pay the bills.
If you don’t feel bad for them you don’t have empathy and are a sociopath, plan and simple.
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>>19457701
Or working to make ends meet.

The snots of this board. Amazing how little soul you have
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>>19457685
There's no cure for being american OP
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>>19457685
Certainly, some people ended up poor because of their choices, but a large portion were funneled that way, if it makes sense.

And look, working at McDonalds is hard. Stocking shelves is hard work. So is landscaping, and all the other types of work poor people do. It's really hard. One of the reasons I pursued the career I did was to avoid working that hard.

This may be a little delusional but I do wish we could have a way to transfer some wealth from the Bezos and Musks of the world to the poorer people. Maybe the billionaires would be required to invest in poorer community's infrastructure, education, etc.
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>>19457685
I hope you have literally never eaten anything from McDonalds or any fast food chain for that matter. Otherwise you're lower than a maggot and I'll put you out of your misery with my bare hands
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>>19457685
bible
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>>19457685
Grapes of Wrath
Brothers Karamazov
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>>19457739
i just got a medium iced coffee from mcdonald's
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>>19457685
Les Miserables
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Don't feel sympathy for the poor as they are, feel sympathy for them as they should and could have been if they weren't crushed into subhuman retards with awful degenerate coping mechanisms.

Poor people are victims of their limited horizons, rich people are monstrously gay mandarins who don't even exploit all their privilege and opportunity to become an aristocracy. They are just high level poor people with Mountain Dew: Platinum Edition instead of Mountain Dew slurry from a hose on the back of a truck.
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>>19457685
Grow up.
>>19457701
>marketable skills
You sound like an npc. Why are you on the literature board if you have no soul?
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>>19457728

There's no point in doing that unless you can credibly enforce some sort of population control. In order to get anywhere as a species in terms of quality of life, you have to cap the number of worthless eaters (and the human population, generally). I would actually like to live in a world with a population well under a billion where every living human being can enjoy a first-world standard of living, but three of the major obstacles to this are overpopulation, low intelligence of a significant minority of the population, and adherence to depraved, false religions (Islam and communism being by far the worst for the human condition). I actually think there's a possibility that we could all "just get along" or at least peacefully coexist if we just got rid of those two and left the rest intact, but the existence of those two basically preclude any semblance of harmony throughout the species. The one thing that I will give the CPC is that they actually seriously tried population control for a time, but they've since relaxed/sorta given up on that.

On the intelligence point, modern society functions just fine with a bunch of 85s as long as they behave themselves and are given legitimate means to provide for themselves and develop their "potential", such as it is (which is exactly what helps with good behavior, having a hobby, a family, something to live for). The problem is when you drop down two stories into the sub-functional -70 African/Sudanese territory, this is when you can No Longer Have Nice Things. And with the normalization of miscegenation...
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>>19457739
t. can't even bench 225
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> That you may be the children of your Father who is in heaven, who maketh his sun to rise upon the good, and bad, and raineth upon the just and the unjust. For if you love them that love you, what reward shall you have? Do not even the publicans this? And if you salute your brethren only, what do you more? Do not also the heathens this? Be you therefore perfect, as also your Father in heaven is perfect.
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>>19457789
>but they've since relaxed/sorta given up on that.
Of course they did. It's either that or immigration on a mass scale, which Chinese society is not exactly ready for. (That said, I do think we'll see immigration to China on the scale of hundreds of millions from Africa. They'll need workers as their native population shrinks).

>The problem is when you drop down two stories into the sub-functional -70 African/Sudanese territory, this is when you can No Longer Have Nice Things. And with the normalization of miscegenation...
I do not think Sub-saharan African IQ is so low that a functioning society is impossible. At least, I do not like this way of thinking. You might raise the example of South Africa to show this is true, but Botswana and Rwanda are counterexamples.
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Personally I don't think people who eat trash like mcdonalds or shop at walmart should be considered human. You are the fucking problem with the world. Your behavior is why monopolies rule over us.
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>>19457824
Says the jackass spending $300 on dinner
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>>19457718
lmao
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>>19457832
>$300 on dinner
Are you implying home cooked meals are expensive?
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>>19457821

You are right that functioning society is possible with lower IQ. But not first-world standard-of-living society (my point), which absolutely requires a baseline intelligence throughout the population that ethnic black Africans lack. I interact with Africans every day. They can be trained on basic things, run their own businesses, all that good stuff. But only to a point.

"At least, I do not like this way of thinking"
Translation: "That idea is mean and I don't like it because it's sociallly unacceptable to agree with it."

I know everyone has their own genocides regardless of intelligence, but your Rwanda citation still made me smile. You might have done better to mention Ghana, one of the nicer ones.
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>>19457832
>>19457824

Notice how lazy he was, to select The Two Big Bad Companies That It's Always Cool For Teenagers To Hate. I'll bet he uses the Google search engine regularly, and periodically avails himself of the big box store and national burger joint called by different names.
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>>19457701
I've had to work jobs like that and at the end of the day you're just really physically exhausted. It's a real tragedy

But hey I get it you contrarian ledditors would rather be dishonest and pretend to believe people are just lazy that if they had enough will power they'd be able to pull off picrel cause lel I'm so ironic and dishonest and it's just a prank bro.
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>>19457787
Marketable skills is code word for: can you do something that someone else is willing to give you money for.
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>>19457868
>They can be trained on basic things, run their own businesses, all that good stuff. But only to a point.
What's the problem then? If their IQ is sufficient to maintain their society what more do you want? Presumably you have a sustainable future in mind where we produce enough to meet the needs of the population plus innovate albeit at a retarded rate you don't need exceptionally intelligent people for that. Intelligence may be highly beneficial to the individual but not the population as a whole as it may be associated with swath of genetic diseases
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>>19457717
>Work for 30 years consistently
>Still not able to live beyond minimum wage one paycheck at a time
There isn't any excuse for this, at all. You cannot create a hypothetical situation where this makes any sense. The chronically poor are poor because of bad life decisions.
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>>19457728
>And look, working at McDonalds is hard. Stocking shelves is hard work.
No, it isn't. The largest source of attrition in these jobs is actual the mental drain from doing repetitive simplistic tasks and/or literally nothing all day in a confined environment. Which is why these jobs are usually populated long-term by lower IQ individuals; higher IQ individuals actually suffer more palpably from the brain drain and so are less likely to hold minimum skill jobs even when they can't attain higher skill jobs.
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>>19457942
>Intelligence may be highly beneficial to the individual but not the population as a whole as it may be associated with swath of genetic diseases
This is not only not true, its also just cope you pulled out of your ass. We are facing a crisis of engagement for low-IQ individuals in the first world, especially the functionally illiterate (<80iq) who cannot be trained to do anything because they cannot internalize the meaning behind instructive words or writing. There is nothing that they can do to sustain themselves, and as technology continues to explosively grow the gulf of IQ scores that cannot realistically interface with a society built on technology will grow until the social ladder becomes too bottom-heavy to function.
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>>19457685

1. Empathy, and sympathy, are intrinsic, therefore, they may be uncovered, not acquired.

2. Evidently you have never been faced with any actual adversity in your life, nor been under any compounded pressure, and virtually everything has been provided to you; individuals like you crumble under the aforementioned, especially in social circumstances.

3. The most that a book will make you want to do in your current state is become erudite in making social media/blog tier posts before resuming to watch/play audiovisual artifacts on your giant television.


>>19457701
>How does someone in their 30s have no marketable skills?

Not everyone is eager to learn how to become skillful in sorting the mercantile trash of the world, especially so when they already detest it, and barely want to stay alive.
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>>19457969
You are partially correct but the people most affected will be those that have an average IQ. It's also somewhat stupid to assume people are too stupid to provide for themselves. They may be naive but not stupid.
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>>19457942

Because their intelligence is insufficient to INNOVATE and CREATE the new technologies which make the first-world standard of living itself possible. It's the simplest thing in the world to understand.

Your latter suggestion is plainly illogical. You claim that a certain positive trait is good for an individual to possess, but not (necessarily) an entire population, because... the positive trait may be associated with a negative one (then why say it's fine for an individual in the first place?) At this point someone is likely to try a hairsplitting discussion of statistics if they really want the argument (b-but higher incidence of the good thing suggests higher incidence of the bad, or similar), but what you actually had in mind with your latter point is something very different and very specific: the relatively high intelligence of jews, and the presence of a number of weird/genetic diseases throughout their population (parly explicable by their in-group reproduction).
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>>19457969
A smaller simpler world would help towards making a low IQ populace more viable. But you're imagining a society and economy of ever increasing complexity which I don't see as necessary
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>>19457948
I was on board until the last sentence. (Captcha: G0YJM :| )
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>>19457992
Why do we need to keep on innovating? And why do they have to when they can just copy us?
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>>19457996
>But you're imagining a society and economy of ever increasing complexity which I don't see as necessary
The economy doesn't care what you see as necessary. Capital replicates capital. We can put measures in place to seriously check the unregulated wild growth of economic power and the concentration of that power, but tossing clogs into the gears like Luddites accomplishes nothing.

>>19457999
B follows A. If A then...
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>>19457717
You can literally buy an online class in very basic industrial skills for like $20. Many are even free. I don't care what you tell me. Unless you are literally working every second of every day and never have time to do anything except eat and shit, there are simply zero scenarios where you can't build marketable skills. There are many people who are victimized by capitalism. Those people are day laborers and industrial workers who slave at the expense of their bodies every day despite having highly valuable skills, or have last their jobs because of the ephemeral social priorities of the bourgeoise. Their labor is undervalued despite its high difficulty and severe toll, and they deserve better. If you are still working in a McDonalds or a Starbucks or any other service industry at 30, you are not a member of the Proletariat. You are just lazy or brain damaged. If you HAVE to take the job because of a downturn that's one thing. If you have never moved out of the job, again, lazy or brain damage.
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>>19458019
If you have a high enough IQ to recognize that you should be copying another society, you are already at the threshold where you will begin innovating. Otherwise you just get cases like the retarded Pajeets that worship toilets.
IQ informs pattern recognition and pattern recognition informs problem solving.
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>>19458041
>Those people are day laborers and industrial workers who slave at the expense of their bodies every day despite having highly valuable skills
I'd love to hear some examples of the job fields these people work in because it sounds like most of them work for the Unions.
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>>19457685
>>19457717
>>19457701
>>19457700
>>19457715
>>19457718
It has to do with IQ and that's also why it's a good argument for the right wing to feel sympathetic for low skilled labor. IQ is genetic. They can't help themselves. You should feel sympathy they were dealt a bad hand in birth.
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>>19458052
>You should feel sympathy they were dealt a bad hand in birth
I feel certain that if you were to look at the family history of those born with sub-societal IQ you'd find all kinds of shit that does not foster sympathy.
Charity and community care is all fine, but it does not solve the problem to pretend like there's no explanation and nothing to be done about those born with below-functional IQ.
I grow increasingly convinced that certain people just shouldn't be allowed to reproduce.
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>>19458050
I work in a factory as an engineer and we employ hundreds of non-unionized workers to run production assemblies for just above minimum wage. There are many unions, but there are many MORE un-unionized workplaces.
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>>19458085
And running production lines is a physically destructive high-value labor set?
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>>19458068
If you were born low skill labor would you want to be put in a camp? You could still feel happiness, love, beauty, the same as everyone else.
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>>19457972

You're right that learning to move products and services more efficiently leaves many people cold (because although beneficial to society in principle and often in fact, it doesn't "provide deeper meaning" which can only be found in family, social interaction and unfortunately for most humans, the counterproductive dead end of religion). You are also right to describe a large portion of the poor as "barely wanting to stay alive" since their lives suck.

But you make two mistakes. First of all, you suggest a "noble sentiment" that the poor might feel, a contempt for work in principle based on some finer feelings that they don't have. This is obviously false since the poor happily consume cheap products and services themselves when their shift is over. They don't hate work out of some "noble" anti-capitalist sentiment (a contradiction in terms), they hate their bullshit job because it is a constant reminder to them of their low socioeconomic status.

Your second mistake is to think that the poor "refuse" a better job out of some principle. The poor know very well that work sucks and that since it's all more-or-less the same at their level, they might as well make a bit more doing a slightly different sort of job, if they can. But their shit jobs (if they even have one) lack of drive and poverty itself can sap their strength and whatever initiative they might have had. If you took some fuckstick out of a Wal-Mart with redeeming qualities (shows up on time, isn't an imbecile despite the current job) and said "Hey man we can put you in six months of schooling and get you a nice HVAC job making 60K, does that sound like something you'd rather do" he'd be delighted with the prospect.
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>>19458095
Sometimes, yes. We take precautions to make sure the work is safe and doable and as far as I know there are no (dangerous) accidents, but the job is still a lot of power machinery operation, not good for the back and neck. The lower-end tech work is not particularly "valuable", but it still has to be done. We simply don't have the capital or engineering acumen to automate it while still safely producing everything we make.
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>>19458098
>If you were born low skill labor would you want to be put in a camp? You could still feel happiness, love, beauty, the same as everyone else
If I were born functionally illiterate I imagine I'd be much happier being given a facsimile of something engaging to do all day rather than being left to fend for myself eking out a living in a society I am not mentally equipped to handle. Anything above functional literacy can compete in society; the sad truth is that reality shows what level of competition 'low skill' individuals want to exist at.
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>>19458041

>let me tell you what the definition of the Proletariat is
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>>19458115
>The lower-end tech work is not particularly "valuable", but it still has to be done
So your answer is "well yes but actually no"
The fact that the type of labor you're describing has largely already been automated in major corporate manufacturing facilities tells me this labor is not particularly high skill or valuable. Your business not having the money to front the cost to automate does not make the work valuable.
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>>19458127
How could you not feel sympathy for that?
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>>19458115

I am the CEO and I have taken notice of your own professed admission of your lack of engineering acumen, implicating both yourself and your team. Since I am the CEO and I have common sense, I understand the assembly lines. Still, I find your comment troubling and I'll start thinking about shaking up your team.
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>>19458148
I can feel sympathy, but sympathy does not improve the situation, and an overabundance of sympathy just becomes enabling behavior after a point. Let the sympathy professionals give out the hugs and kisses and let the professionals in economics and social order fix the problem.
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>>19458159
I'm sure you thought this was very smart.
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>>19458174
Someone needs to do clean the toilets. Why make high IQ people do it? You should be happy you have someone to do that work or we would be fucked
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>>19457992
Also, why is my suggestion illogical? Take the example of sickle cell anemia. The trait is recessive and detrimental to he who posses it, but is beneficial to the population because it prevents the transmission of malaria which cannot reproduce in the malformed red blood cells. One might imagine that if we breed for intelligence it may make certain detrimental genes more abundant (linkage is a thing that happens by the way, genes which come in one package two for one you might say). I'm not saying I know for a fact that that is the case, so the suggestion is not illogical but I submit to you that it is unlikely

>>19458032
>The economy doesn't care what you see as necessary.
Yes exactly. So if the economy stops growing because we have a stable population whose needs are perfectly met by the technology that we have you do not need to innovate further
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>>19457685
Being an incel made me believe that hitler was right. Women are living proof that our genes matter. Whether they admit it or not it all comes down to weeding out those that are trash (me) and keeping the genes that matter. I however will not understand why the poor, stupid and ugly continue to reproduce...how does one control them from reproducing without being a "racist" or committing genocide...
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>>19458136
Yes, anon. This is a discussion forum. We are discussing the working class. The definition of who is and is not the working class is relevant.

>>19458138
You can automate pretty much everything that happens in a factory with sufficient capital, space, and initiative. That doesn't mean that there is no high skill or valuable labor which occurs in a factory. For example, some chip components have to be manually soldered into place. The skill of the soldering work is very important to the longevity of the instrument. We can standardize this, but it would be very difficult to guarantee that everything about this process functions correctly without spending enormous amounts of money to build and maintain a system. It is simply easier to hire technicians experienced with soldering work to do so manually.

In many cases, the skill of the laborer being employed is their own knowledge of the systems and ability to respond intelligently to faults. You're asking me to gauge the difficulty of this process for you to use as an example. The completely honest answer is I don't have a good grasp on how difficult it is because I do not do it. I can tell you we can't just hire any bum of the street to do these jobs, and I know the technicians work their asses off for minimum wage and are a mix of ages, so it is not a job you normally take to "move upward".
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>>19458175

>knows he's caught and starts seething

See you back at work after the holiday. If you have any ideas for how to improve the engineering side, my door is always open.
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>>19457685
What a gross thread. Quickly devolved into IQ pseudo science.
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>>19458206
bait
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>>19458182
>Someone needs to do clean the toilets. Why make high IQ people do it
You're misunderstanding the problem. The problem is not that low IQ/low skill individuals can't work, the problem is that low IQ individuals are increasingly running out of jobs they can do that are mentally satisfying and monetarily sustainable. Low IQ individuals HAVE to clean the toilets even though it is a job that crushes their souls, because one level up from cleaning the toilets you have shelf stocking which involves a whole shitload of reading, pattern recognition, working with printer and barcode scanner technology, etc.
Moving even just slightly up the labor hierarchy rapidly increases the mental complexity of tasks and leaves the low IQ population with so little to do that it isn't even clear that having employment actually raises their quality of life - which would be a great argument to just subsidize them, IF they weren't a growing subset of the population.
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>>19458191
I never get over the fact that this is the only website in which you can stumble upon viewpoints from random historical periods, with a modern spin of course. As of now I've stumbled upon a couple of people still living in 2007 and now a progressive from the 1900sI mean no offense by this comment.
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>>19458203
I am your gardener Juan dumbass.
And by the way, your wife is fucking your best friend.
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>>19458217
Hmm good point. I could see a UBI for the low iq in the future. I wonder what would happen societally
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>>19458189
>So if the economy stops growing because we have a stable population whose needs are perfectly met by the technology that we have you do not need to innovate further
This is a communist pipedream. Capital self-replicates and the population only grows. You are opening yourself to committing atrocities in the name of trying to logjam the economy just to solve a utilitarian math problem.
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>>19458197
>You can automate pretty much everything that happens in a factory with sufficient capital, space, and initiative. That doesn't mean that there is no high skill or valuable labor which occurs in a factory.
Yes, anon. It literally does. The actual value of the laborer becomes 0 when his labor is not required. Labor, like product, has no intrinsic value and is only worth what you can convince people to pay for it.
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>>19458231
I was never arguing for limiting the size of our population, that was the other guy (perhaps (You)?). And I don't understand what you mean by self-replicating capital, perhaps you mean capital begets capital? What is the context for that? Capital begets further capital insofar as you can use that capital to innovate, but I'm saying you don't have to
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>>19458229
There will never be a UBI for just low IQ people. If there was it would be a catastrophic last-ditch effort to keep the poor and minorities under control. Think about it: You are giving the people least capable of exercising effective decision-making access to free capital predicated on nothing. Look at the shit show around gating welfare/SNAP access on negative drug tests. These people cannot even stop using their money on weed (don't bullshit me that it's about oxy or meth, the problem is ALWAYS weed) long enough to collect money they literally need TO LIVE. How much of that UBI do you think is even going to go towards keeping them afloat and sane?
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>>19458219
Am I wrong ? I am not white but even someone like me can admit that race matters. Women don't bat an eye when they dislike a guy for being too ugly, short, not having a big dick, being poor, etc.
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>>19458229
The other side of the problem, and why UBI is not even a clearly desirable goal, is because simply not working at all seems to be just as psychologically detrimental (if not more) than working bare minimum complexity jobs. People rot from lack of engagement and I don't know of a system by which we can subsidize disparate individuals' mental and social exercise.
To use a crude analogy, Star Trek (and many other socialist utopian fictions) imagine a future society where nobody needs to work but everybody maximizes their time spent in physical, intellectual and creative endeavors... On the backs of quietly glossed-over eugenics programs. If Capitalism describes basic axioms of human nature then it seems the only functional way to achieve post-Capitalism would be to radically and invasively alter that nature.
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>>19458251
It wouldn't be UBI. It would be money only directly for housing, food, small luxuries etc and it would be directed towards "poor people"
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>>19458250
>Capital begets further capital insofar as you can use that capital to innovate, but I'm saying you don't have to
Capital begets the further opportunity for capital gain, and you will never uniformly convince humans to stop pursuing capital gain.
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>>19458240
You are conflating two very different concepts of "value" here. You are referring to the concept of economic value, i.e. perceptual value, or "How I value it". I am referring to the concept of value used internal to the manufacturing industry, which is the ability of the worker to increase the value of the product. To "add value" to the product. In that sense, the value of the worker is never zero, except when they are incapable of adding more to the device than they cost to employ.
Note that this is not LVT, it's "backwards" LVT. The value of the worker is decided by the value of the product, not the value of the product by the value of the worker. But the value of the worker, or of their labor, is certainly not decided by the cost of their automation.
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>>19458272
That's just SNAP/welfare/subsidized housing. It doesn't work.
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>>19458272
But you said it would be a UBI for low IQ people, that's the concept I was addressing. It seems like now you're discussing the welfare state, and that's functionally identical for the purpose of my point.
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>>19458285
What is your solution then because gas chambers are not coming.
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>>19458282
The value of the laborer internal to the manufacturing industry doesn't seem to mean a whole hell of a lot if it does not directly transfer into economic value for the worker, anon. From the worker's point of view they shouldn't (rationally) give a shit how much value they add to the company's products if that doesn't translate to felt economic value growth for them, with of course some allowance for their psychological disposition.
In other words, there doesn't really seem to be any good reason for your assembly line workers to stay working at your factory tearing themselves up for minimum wage. It sounds like a classic bad employment decision.
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>>19458197

Don't get cute with me. The hated unskilled Wal-Mart mouthbreathers, precariat etc, so long as they regularly perform some sort of wage labor, plainly fall under the classical definition of the proletariat. The only thing going on in your earlier post is simple resentment at the idea of skilled laborers (including yourself, presumably) being placed in the same category with them, hence a pretended and convenient re-definition of terms.

Most of this thread has been a kind of circlejerk about how to conceptualize/empathize with the Very Simple Unskilled Worker, with the posters usually expressing deep personal satisfaction that they are not among their ranks.
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>>19458280
We're arguing past each other. All I've said is that things could be this way not that they are likely to ever be this way. I'm just refuting your statement that innovation is somehow a neccesity. Look at Sentinelese tribesmen, they don't seem to have innovated past the paleolithic
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>>19458306
It is, but having said that there are no GOOD employment decisions
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>>19458252
I cannot say for sure if you are right or wrong. But I do believe there exist indeed some processes for mate selection, I'm too inexperienced to say which they are, and I don't particularly care enough to put thought into it.
I'll have sex some day. I swaer.
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>>19458293

We just need the right covid mutation at this point.
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>>19458322
Hopefully soon enough. But I'm still young, there is time.
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>>19458293
Massive limitations to the legal powers of limited liability corporations which would destroy international, national and regional industry monopolies which have the capital to engage in unnecessary technocracy. Conversely this opens up the possibility for smaller scale industry and labor jobs with an appropriate level or mental complexity to actually make a sustainable profit and employ lower skill workers.
Along with this, changes in the welfare state to eliminate the existing subsidies on populations and social factors that produce low-iq individuals in droves. No more welfare queens.
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>>19458327
How do you stop people who still won't work?
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>>19458320
That's not true and sounds like cope you feed your crews to keep them building tractors at pennies on the dollar.
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>>19458216
No, I'm serious. You resentful eugenicists would almost be amusing if you werent so pathetic.
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>>19458099

You are fallaciously generalizing individuals by equating dearth/poverty with low personal quality, which is as absurd as the converse; consequently, the rest of your post consists in erroneous presumptions projected onto my post, which mentions no particulars pertaining to poverty/dearth in individual circumstances.
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>>19458226

Seethe on, my employee, seethe on.
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>>19458335
t. low iq
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>>19458339
You know it's true.
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>>19458318
Things can't feasibly be the way you describe anon. You're chasing butterflies. Innovation is self-necessitating; that inbred uncontacted tribesmen who don't even live as humans do have not innovated is the exception that proves the rule.
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>>19458331
Why would I need to stop them? They'll be miserable and dependent on charity, but as long as they are not reproducing like rabbits I trust in the ability of a successful economy to float the handful of permanent shitters and those born disabled.
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>>19458317
I am not a proletariat. I am an aware bourgeoise.

The question is: is someone a proletariat because of their economic class, or because of their social class. I argue it's because of their social class, and the economic class only partially aligns with it in a usable fashion. This is a tangential argument but it's part of the reason that "raising the minimum wage" is not a solution for class warfare. The dynamic between the bourgeoise and the proletariat, and likewise the aristocracy and the bourgeoise, is about power dynamics and not financial or economic ones. The aristocrat can have no money and remain an aristocrat if he can leverage power in other ways. The proletariat can have almost infinite money and still be a proletariat if his access to capital and labor is routed through the good graces of the bourgeoise. Money grants power in these dynamics but is only a part of it, there are other dynamics at play as well. The answer must therefore be deeper than economic relations

You are correct though. Almost every discussion of socialism becomes a circlejerk about who is and is not a member of the proletariat. I am not. In a socialist revolution I would surely be killed as a class enemy. I like these discussions because I believe there is an alternative somewhere deeper in the theory, which could be a truer answer.

>>19458334
I don't interface with them much, except when there's a line issue I need to solve. I'm sure it's what they tell themselves.
>>
>>19457685
I will say that having a low IQ does not mean you are lazy. Mexican people in general are very hardworking and it is more of a lifestyle. If they were to get UBI I highly doubt they would stop working. The real problem would be that they do not posses the intelligence to build machines that will help them increase their productivity.
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>>19458366
>I am a bourgeoise who does not interface with the proletariat but I'm sure they're all seething marxist like me
This reads like parody. Your workers are too stupid to improve their employment situation and you are too educated to see the world as it is and are sitting deep in the Dunning-Kruger valley. Have fun contributing heavily to the societal issue you claim to be trying to solve.
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>>19458366
While we are on the subject of who is a prole, I would like to raise the point that literally no one in the first world is a prole, they are all labor aristocrats.

>inb4 "what about some Detroit auto worker, some Black dude, some Amazon warehouse worker"
Still profits off the labor of the 3rd world. Not a real member of the proletariat.
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>>19458349
>the exception that proves the rule
What sophistry is this? An exception necessarily disproves a statement, e.g. If I say that all cats are black and I exhibit a white cat then the statement all cats are black is false
What you mean to say then is that under the current global ideology which is more or less (varying by geographical region and cultures) predicated on growth, innovation is self-necessitating (whatever that means).
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>>19457685
>like a 34 year old working at McDonald’s life has no value to me
that's because they have no value. it's sad seeing grown ass men working minimum wage retail jobs and taking that opportunity away from a young person with no experience trying to enter the job market. I would go be homeless before I ever accepted a minimum wage job as an adult.
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>>19458393
Its a turn of phrase anon calm down.
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>>19458250

For the record I'm the one (not the one you've been talking to) who suggested population control. But I don't personally need to advocate for it. Nature and the finitude of Earth do that very well all by themselves. The other guy's emotional appeal to "atrocities!" is silly though. Nature will balance its books, one way or another. To identify myself in the discussion, I repeat my original statement that I would like the entire human population to be able to enjoy a first-world standard of living, but the fetters of overpopulation (and the organism's irrepressible imperative to reproduce), low intelligence in a large minority of the population, and malignant religion (especially Islam and communism) are among the main obstacles to this preferable state of affairs.

Honestly I haven't followed the thread of what you and the other guy(s) have been saying but at least one you is insistent on a very stupid idea, which boils down to this: smart people can make juuuust enough good technology, then you can just give that to the dumber people and they'll keep using it because we'll have the technology and know how to keep it/maintain it. This is plainly stupid because the maintenance of the technology (in the historical record, on a practical daily basis etc) requires a certain know-how (if not intelligence), but you have to count on the technology failing, or some catastrophe happening which kills a section of the population/destroys the material itself, and then to re-invent the stuff...? Basically your vision is a vision of mediocrity which is doomed to failure.

Overall this has been a very interesting discussion so far with a minimum of shitposting, although we clearly have disagreements among ourselves, but I would suggest that we actually try to mention a book or two to avoid the thread getting pruned. On the working poor themselves, I seem to remember "Hard Times" by Dickens, which is a pretty over-the-top depiction of Victorian factory life and the pennypinching boss (Gradgrind) who only cares about numbers until he has a moral crisis or something, I forget, it's been a long time. And there's plenty of non-fiction on the Wal-Mart phenomenon which is so easy to hate, giving the Upper Plebs something to look down on and feel better about themselves, I guess.
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>>19458408
"Experience in the job market" is corporatist propaganda to convince the young not to self advocate or pursue entrepreneurial interest. You don't need to spend time as a slave before you can be a master. Retail and similar low-skill job categories don't teach meaningful life or business skills.
If you need your life unfucked as a kid, join the military.
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>>19458410
Allowing people to die off en masse is an atrocity regardless of whether you claim it's nature 'balancing itself' or not, anon. Unless you're suggesting that at a certain population cap the Deluge will begin again.
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>>19458388
I swear to god you people have a special talent for eating yourselves. Marxism is an interesting movement. Certainly, as dynamic and ever-changing as everything else.
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>>19458423
>You don't need to spend time as a slave before you can be a master
you don't need to be a slave to learn a new skill and develop experience, retard
>t. master electrician
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Why did I have to born as an example of dysgenics
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>>19458446
Religions predicated on militant conversion tend to do that.
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>>19458410
>This is plainly stupid because the maintenance of the technology (in the historical record, on a practical daily basis etc) requires a certain know-how (if not intelligence), but you have to count on the technology failing, or some catastrophe happening which kills a section of the population/destroys the material itself, and then to re-invent the stuff...?
Yeah, I'm saying your populace has that know how. And catastrophes do strike and the know how is lost regardless, that's why we can't make Damascus steel or Dhaka muslin. It's a low probability event so I'm counting on it not happening especially if the information on how to create and do maintenance on the machines is widespread
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>>19458450
You learned to be a master electrician at McDonald's? What the hell are you advocating for?
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>>19458464
>that's why we can't make Damascus steel
You do know this is literally a popsci meme, right? The question was always how Europeans managed to form furnaces hot enough to get the carbon content necessary to make true Damascus during the age of the Vikings; the process itself was never lost, we just didn't know how it had been transferred.
And some madlad built a prototype historically plausible crucible furnace to make European damascus a few years ago so that mystery is largely solved too.
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>>19457685
>Any books to gain sympathy for the poor?
interesting. i never thought someone who lacked sympathy would go out of their way to get it
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>>19458474
Literally doesn't matter. I chose it to illustrate that knowledge can be lost
>>19458495
We live in a post-ironic society. Whether or not OP is here to gain empathy I hope he can at least ironically emulate it well
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>>19458508
>I chose it to illustrate that knowledge can be lost
In exceedingly few and often overstated cases, sure.
>>
I was born to collect shopping carts. To think I had the conceit to think I could be a learned man.
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>>19458527
lol same here
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>>19458522
>In exceedingly few and often overstated cases, sure.
Don't you see the irony of your statement? I similarly claim that in the future I've envisioned such occurrences would be exceedingly rare and with information more widely disseminated it would take a far shorter time to rediscover relearn how to do those things
Fuck I'm tired. It's late.
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>>19458541
No anon, I'm not your elementary school teacher so I don't read past glaring errors in your reasoning to see if you deserve a gold star for trying your best. Next time don't bring some weak popsci bullshit to try and beef up your argument.
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>>19458466
>You learned to be a master electrician at McDonald's?
who do you think builds restaurants, anon? do they have their own trade workers
>hey McSparky go wire these lights
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>>19457739
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>>19457685
Autists get the rope
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>>19458408

You know that your latter sentiment is vain and non-literal, but there is something deeper: where it really counts, we are all the same. This is not a meaningless generality. We are all the same. We are animals. We are born and putter along for a few decades on the outside, with a little power of self-reflection which the other animals seem to lack. During our lives there are clear differences in our individual capacities, yes, but we come to the same reward soon enough.

The intellectual flagellation against the cripple, or the stupid Wal-Mart greeter, (or the cripple who works as a stupid Wal-Mart greeter, I have a specific one in mind!), or whatever other amusing subaltern, is a vain attempt to deny one's own mortality. One's equivalence with him in the final analysis. This is what the living hate: equivalence in death with those with whom they are unequal in life. Any reminder of one's own death. So, false afterlives are invented. Reincarnation based on moral conduct. Better to imagine heaven and hell than to admit the true equivalence of Jeffery Dahmer and Jesus Christ: animals that were born, lived, and died. The same as you, and the same as me.

>B-but Muh Family
Doesn't personally benefit you as you die and become nothing again. This is a typical normie mistake made these days, thinking that by breeding you "win the game of life". Well, no. You win the game of life by not dying.

>B-but Muh Art/Writings
That all gets trashed in the long view too, sometimes sooner rather than later (pic related).

Many will find this to be a bleak/crabs-in-the-bucket view of things, but I personally experience it as comfy. This is not to say that I don't appreciate intelligence and cars and Having Nice Things, but I do like the idea of a certain cosmic justice, and for me the notion that everyone dies and becomes nothing again does very well. This view goes out the window if they ever get biological immortality going and marry it up with extraterrestrial expansion. May that horror never occur. The contradiction in my view is that I've been advocating for quality-of-life technology on the one hand, and in this latter edgy nihilist turn where I show my true colors, I abhor the idea of it going too far, defeating a basic ontological equality among men which makes existence bearable (even the king dies). For now I will simply say that I am aware of the contradiction and I alternate based on which topic I am currently discussing. But if it comes down to it, better that the entire planet be flung into the sun sooner rather than later, than that a single individual gets to immortality status. As for whether other species might have managed it by now? "We must each tend our own garden."
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>>19458127
Hate to tell you this mate, you were born illiterate. Not just functionally illiterate, illiterate.
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>>19458572
So you think a 16 year old should start working the cash register at McDonald's and do that for 20 years before becoming an electrician instead of... Learning to be an electrician.
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>>19458598
>You know that your latter sentiment is vain and non-literal
i have actually been homeless and refused to take shitty mimimum wage jobs when i was a teenager. I robbed before I took a degrading job. Saved enough for trade school. Made it to master electrician. Started contracting. Life on EZ mode now.

TL;DR minimum wage jobs are a dead end
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>>19458495

In principle, it's possible for a sociopath/psychopath to reach intellectual understanding that it's beneficial for themselves to interact more normally with normies, to get curious about how that works.
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>>19458633
>In principle, it's possible for a sociopath/psychopath
it's not just possible its quite common. sociopaths need other people to achieve their own agenda. don't confused understanding with sympathy
>t. sociopath
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>>19457701
>How do they even get to that point? How does someone in their 30s have no marketable skills?
Falling ill and dropping out of college, followed by a few years of crippling depression and therapy that didn't work. You only need 3-4 well placed years to completely drop out of the world. I have a rich inner monologue and a pretty nice imagination, some of which I have lost due to SSRIs, but yeah I should just off myself. Outside of art that nobody is interested in I have nothing to offer to a community or a companion, and I've also lost basic social skills. I'm practically kept alive by the very system I'm incompatible with.
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>>19458598
This is such a pseud post it's almost poetic.
>>
I mean, is a person's life and worth to be defined by how much profit he can generate for an employer?
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>>19458661
>Suffer a setback
>Devote your time and energy to doing '''art''' instead of making up your lost time developing useful skills or social skills
>Wonder why you can't get ahead and are always miserable
Many such cases!
>>
No man ever found himself laying on his deathbed thinking "wow I wish I could have worked more rip". Life satisfation universally comes from pursuing relationships with other people (family, partners, friends etc.) and spending time on your hobbies.
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>>19458633
>>19458645
Any tips on simulating an interest in hobbies or events or normal things? My life is consumed by rational calculation. I'm good at mirroring people without their realising it, but it gets uncomfortable when they start to notice I have no personality of my own. Or to put it another way, when they notice I'm completely disengaged from the human race.
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>>19458722
I'm sure there is a diagnosis for what you're dealing with, and possible help to be found.
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>>19457692
Fpbp. I unironically used to say things like OP when I was a teenager with a chip on his shoulder. When I grew up and actually had to interact with people outside my boundaries, I realized I was retarded.
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>>19458358

I have identified the single stupidest post in the thread.
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>>19458722
>Any tips on simulating an interest in hobbies or events or normal things?
find independent hobbies. start a business so you don't need to rely on other idiots. riding a motorcycle is one of the few things that relaxes my mind. I can ride around or between retards in traffic and there's comfort in accepting death.
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>>19458733

You didn't become a better person or "see their humanity", you just realized that it was expedient to treat others with socialy acceptable respect.
>>
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Necessarily, there comes a time for every soul to shed such fleshly concerns as "having marketable skills". Marketable skills are nothing more than ways to put your body, self autonomy and precious time in the hands of another human (sometimes themselves trapped by the Narrative agents), to use for themselves as a tool.
The world and times you currently live in is intelligently designed to strip you of your self through various mechanisms and layers that you only think that you need in order to live on. The deeper you're sinking, the more perverse, tricky and specialized these mechanisms are, and the thicker the layer of field out of which you must swim if you want salvation.
Some of these mechanisms are addictive, some are enticing, some constrain you. This is the Narrative, the intelligent societal design towards which every little detail and frustration lead. The Narrative's sole purpose is to keep you trapped and addicted to coping, make no mistake about that. You are the protagonist and all the Narrative wants is to keep you in the story.
The poor are nothing more but souls such as yourself trapped in thick layer of field. Its is simply another mechanism of keeping them in. For some is being poor, for some is being rich, but all of them are affected by the Narrative, and what the Narrative wants out of you is clear as day.
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>>19458747
Don't apply your mechanical thought process on me, faggot.
>>
I hate muricans so much it's unreal.
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>>19458733
>I realized I was retarded
eventually you will come full circle and realize everyone is a fucking retard with an agenda
>>
bro ppl work jobs...................................deep............
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>>19458758
>smooth criminal beat intensifies
you've been hit by
you've been struck by
.......a mechanical thought process
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>>19457956
Stocking shelves is hard work. Tearing open hundreds of boxes per night and lifting the heavier items you usually wind up sore at the end of a shift. I also had carpal tunnel several times a year
I finally quit and got a desk job earlier this year and I gained forty pounds in just three months. I’m not burning the calories that I used to.
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>>19457701
>marketable skills
Last man slave vocabulary
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>>19457972
>Not everyone is eager to learn how to become skillful in sorting the mercantile trash of the world, especially so when they already detest it, and barely want to stay alive.

this is the most pathetic fucking attitude a human being can possibly have, you're literally just wallowing in self pity because you live a life style that makes you miserable and all you do about it is make excuses for why you are too lazy to put in the work to actually make something out of your life. not exactly surprising that such a pathetic loser like yourself is a tripfag desperate for attention and validation on an anonymous image board.
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>>19458408
its not the 1950s anymore bro, that mcjob is going to a Filipino immigrant not a teenager
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>>19457692
>>19458733
Sounds like you're a balding man in his 30s that resents youthful energy. You should be nice to the McDonalds cashier of course but objectively they aren't respectable
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>>19458970

You're right to shit on him for being a tripfaggot but he has a real point that you are incorrectly rejecting, which is why you're doing the Tough Guy American Worker™ thing-even if you are not American-as a defense mechanism. Sorting screws into boxes in order to be paid money is objectively boring and unfulfilling to the individual doing work , despite the fact that the activity helps society. The bottom two thirds of all human labor can reasonably be reduced to "sorting screws into boxes in order to be paid money". Basically you're suggesting that if someone sorts the screws into the boxes even harder and more enthusiastically that they will find meaning in life. (No I'm not Brah he should learn a trade!!!!) Same thing at that tier, you haven't changed the game. The man at the gym should keep lifting until a woman loves him.

Everyone flies from work at the first opportunity (and as a natural impulse), but extroverts get bored and re-enter work as a necessary social activity. They will defend work, stupidly, as you are doing.
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>>19458861

This is what I like about my retail job. Keeps me slim and fuckable.
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>>19457787
>>19457905
>>19457972
>>19458206
>Evidently you have never been faced with any actual adversity in your life
Nobody ITT saying some variation of this has ever worked a minimum wage job in their life. Being even a slightly component person working a wagecuck job will teach you that the average person is genuinely mentally deficient. The world is not your upper middle class bubble, stupid people are very real and end up in these jobs for a reason
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>>19458661
samefagging.
im 33 but i guess im cured of that depression part. the work is bitch though.
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>>19459019
>drifting aimlessly through life with no goals working a minimum wage job is the same as setting goals and pushing yourself and learning a skill ***that can afford you to actually choose to live a lifestyle of your choice***** (this is the important part you are ignoring) are the same things because...they just are!

congrats this dumbest thing I've ever read. an entire paragraph and you've said absolutely nothing. I will pray for you, that you might find inspiration and the will to make something out of your life.
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>>19459049

>slightly component (machine part) where slightly competent (human subject) was meant

Pedantic, but it's still an amusing slip. Throughout the thread I've noticed some posts with ESL-ish slips/misspellings like these, which I attribute to you.
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>>19459069
I just clicked the first autocorrect option without looking. Truthfully English is the only language I speak and that was my only post ITT
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>>19458724
What does it sound like?

>>19458737
I can't think of any reason to take up a hobby except as a form of social display. I'd like to learn how to play piano so that I can demonstrate that I know how to play piano, for example. I just read books and think about money, without necessarily having the social ambition required to work at making it. I have enough money to eat what I like and I don't bother to wear clothes in private, which is almost all of the time. (It's not a sexual thing.)
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>>19459049
>Being even a slightly component person working a wagecuck job will teach you that the average person is genuinely mentally deficient
Depends I've had really stupid coworkers and I've had coworkers that read history in their free time. Either way it should go without saying that people's intelligence level in no way justifies murdering them. Only on /lit/ would such a sociopathic view receives serious consideration.
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>>19459156

Most normal people take up hobbies with the idea of making some sort of social display eventually (along with enjoying the hobby for its own sake), so that's fine. Try doing piano. The private nudism thing is interesting because we're hairless apes so either it's warm as fuck where you are or you don't mind being cold.

You may be autistic or have other eccentricities, but if you can be honest with people about yourself in a socially acceptable way then they'll respect you (and your honesty) to a basic point, even if they find you odd and don't want to (deeply) befriend you. That's fine too, to a point. The eventual point for normal people of having a bunch of acquaintances and social contacts is eventually to have friends (especially a few deep friendships) and romantic partners. The more people you meet and interact with, the better the chances you'll meet some other weirdos who find you okay. These relationships are complex and can't be manufactured quickly, they occur and develop over years. If you wish to socialize with other humans you are forced to accept all of these challenges. The payoff occurs when you when you encounter other humans similar to yourself. This happens regularly among all humans, no matter their individual problems.
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>>19457701
I spend every moment of my life reading, that's why I close boxes in a factory.
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>>19459012
>youthful energy

you mean incel seethe with no life experience or personal achievement at all?
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"Marketable skills" is a euphemism for "spent all their time networking at college".
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>>19458598
All that text just to seeth at your own inability to conceive of anything spiritual or holy. Absolute teenage nihilism drenched in pseudointellectualism.
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>>19458905
Markatable skills as in white collar bureaucratic/HR/marketing soulless low effort jobs. And these are somehow more high status than honest physical labour jobs that actually give people access to essential items like food on their plates, while the marketer writes a script from globohomo propaganda
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>>19457685
Jack London - The Apostate (1906)
Nikolai Gogol - The Overcoat
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>>19459275
Marketable skills as in being a tradesman :^)
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>>19457685

Not everyone is born with the same opportunities (good family, natural intelligence, motivation, etc).

You can't see them as human because you think success is an effect of merit alone.
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>>19457685
>Any books to gain sympathy for the poor?
the bell curve
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>>19457685
Chavs: The Demonisation of the Working Class, by Owen Jones
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>>19459275
It's more about how useful you are to international corporations and what's your position in the ladder. Teenager economists believe success comes from either hard work or intelligence depending on the context and which card they want to play. In reality though these corporations don't care about anyone and they'll boot you out once you get too expensive. Teenager economists like to larp as Patrick Bateman while they are getting their Last Man degrees in college and not been in the real world yet
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>>19459012
>youthful energy
>have parental assets
>evade taxes
>ignore labor laws
>you are now youthfully energetic
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>>19457685
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>>19458970
>because you live a life style that makes you miserable

You seem to be more miserable than everyone in this thread combined.
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>>19459171
>it should go without saying that people's intelligence level in no way justifies murdering them
Not intelligence but monetary "success" and status, and this is something that literally 100% of normalfags agree with.
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>>19459199
That makes sense.
I don't seem to be able to form connections of that kind. Once someone is out of sight, I have no basis for what my behaviour should be, and never contact them, or if I do have to message them, it gives me intense anxiety not to know what to mirror. Or if I'm the one being messaged, I feel compelled to mirror whatever is being said to me. I've had some success with online dating, but never had a long-term sexual relationship, and never a friendship.
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>>19459512
Also, I don't have any particular goal in posting in this thread. The topic of imitating emotion came up and I ended up describing the dissimulation that is my way of life, heedless of the thread topic.
>>
What's your opinion of niggers op?
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>>19457948
a great many people have to lose for one person to win in our economy by design
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>>19458251
it wouldn't be capital, it'd be subsidies to various industries that briefly stop as number on an account of the UBI receiver. all that money will vanish as service fees, too. the UBI reciever has a home and food and entertainment, but he will have no money left over by design
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>>19458285
sure it does, it works so well that there are families who have lived off it for generations, and people crossing the border every single day to obtain them
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>>19458408
how often do eat at fast food places? most mcjobs are held by the middle aged and elderly, even in (and sometimes especially) small towns
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>>19459334
yeah it's actually pretty eye-opening when you encounter your first doofus junior executive
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>>19458182
I worked in a customer service call center and met people with 2 (non humanities) degrees in it.
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>>19458598
>cosmic justice means Jeffrey Dahmer and Jesus Christ both are ultimately the same
liberal atheists actually believe this
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>>19459061
>'make something out of your life'
>'consume PRODUCT™ get excited for more PRODUCT™'
you are insane and lack any meaning, at this point you are essentially a machine that experiences Consciousness. 'Making something out of your life' only means anything if by that you intend to say 'return to God'
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>>19459815
And the country falling apart around them
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>>19457717
>Boohoo losers
Stfu you vapid cunt
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>>19458052
Cool it down with the racism
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>>19457685
Don’t worry buddy you’ll turn 18 soon.
>>
The Bible.
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>>19457685
Does the life of a rich or middle class person have value to you? If so, how do you account for the difference? Is it a matter of status?
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>>19457795
t. Bloatlord
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>>19457685
Since this thread has derailed somewhat, here's an actual book recommendation.
Do you live in a dense urban center, OP?
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>>19458454
Do what you can little guy. If I can stay optimistic and survive, so can you.
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>>19457685
I don't see any wage slave as human.
>>19457701
>marketable skills
Wage slave detected.
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>>19459420
Looks cute
>>
I’m not exactly poor, but I genuinely don’t understand how people enmass put up with the whole wageslave thing. I tried working once and was genuinely happier once I left that job and became a NEET again. Also, they’re discriminatory against people with disabilities and mental illnesses regardless of what they claim simply due to the fact that you’re only welcome their if your conditions don’t get in the way of performing the job. If they do, then they’d rather drop you than try and help you adjust.

Activists have proven that you can get whatever you want by stamping your feet hard enough, so I don’t see why people don’t just go out to fight to improve their working conditions if they hate them so much.
>>
>>19457789
>false religions (Islam and communism being by far the worst for the human condition)
Islam is not perfect, but still better and more natural than Christianity.

>they actually seriously tried population control for a time, but they've since relaxed/sorta given up on that
No they didn't give up on that. What do you think the covid vaccines are? It's population control. I bet you took your shots, right you superhight IQ individual?
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>>19457685
Implying corporate office slaves and programming drones are any better. Work itself is undignified.
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>>19457685
Wait until you get into the real world. Then you’ll have respect for those people for humbling themselves. Some people aren’t born lucky in any regard and all of life is a struggle to survive
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>>19460218

Everybody works out of social pressure and access to sex. And the former is more important because getting ostracized by your family or close friends I imagine is a totally brutal experience. And Americans do not have a strong sense of community and collective political identity because of social media, moral vice, and "diversity". And normies are badly educated, even being as dumb as they are. This puts the common man is a very bad spot, he's totally insignificant politically.

Or here's a more simple explanation: if you need to work to survive then you are going to work, and if you are going to work then you want the best job you can get.
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>>19460218
Being a wagie really is one of the most disgusting and slavish forms of existence. I've seen too many people destroy their bodies and minds working 12 hours a day for a pittance. I was a NEET until about 34 years old and then I got a job installing flooring. Now I work 6 hours a day when it's busy and I make more than my dad who worked the same factory job for 20 years. It's ridiculous.
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>>19460440
>thanks for Capitalism I’m better off than my dad
So why are you complaining?
>>
>>19459061
>choose to live a lifestyle of your choice
lol, lecturing people about freedom and choice while you slave your life away.
>>
>>19460503
>my feudal Lord made me a Knight while my parents had to toil on the farms so feudalism is perfect
>>
>>19460283
in what way is Islam better than Christianity
>>
Very jewish Sentiment, OP. If you knew how corrupt every single institution in this world is you would not be so quick to cast judgment on people. We live in a world of cause and effect. People literally do not choose who they are or what they're dealt. No one gets to decided what knowledge their minds will contain. Do yourself a favor and research which racial group rules over us.
>>
>>19458970

The fact that you are so quick to presume that that general comment constitutes an ethicomoral statement merely betrays your own personal insecurity, which you myopically project onto others; you are easy to bait.


>>19459049

Your post is non sequiturial.
>>
>>19457685
DFW's speech This is Water
>>
>>19459795
Economics is not zero sum, retard. The fact that the amount of poverty and starvation has decreased drastically across the world proves this. That you are an adult and still think like that is embarrassing.
>>
>>19459899
You do know the goal of every rational being must be to achieve happiness, right?
>>
>>19460529
Are neets the aristocrats who live of of other people's labor in this analogy?
>>
>>19460864
No the aristocrats are equivalent to the modern day bourgeoisie media/managerial class who aren't the top of the top, yet are significantly wealthier than us mortals despite doing absolutely nothing of virtue.
>>
>>19457715
>not everyone gets afforded the same opportunities in this society.
Just finish school, join the army, and get an accounting degree on the state's dollar. From there you're already golden, but if you happen to be brown then you practically can't fuck it up.
Many such variations but the key is to get through HS without having a kid, like a literal fucking mindless ape
>>
>>19457685
Why does them being poor matter?
Your criteria for being a human is based on how much money they have? Doesn't really make any sense.
>>
>>19460961
>just sign yourself away to the army bro
Fuck that. I’d rather be penniless than do that
>>
>>19460852

To what degree can that which you speak of be called happiness when conditioned by "goal" and "must"?
>>
>>19460995
>govt. offers opportunity
>No

Oof.
>>
>>19461107
>just sign away your rights goy!
You’re a sheep
>>
>>19461066
When I say "must" I mean that an actor can only possibly be spurred to action by something which ultimately leads to the experience of positive emotion or avoidance of negative emotion, the most fundamental of which is called "happiness." For example, "Obey god that you might live forever in paradise."
>>
>>19461128
>Sign away your rights
After the 2 months of basic and a little time in AIT you essentially go back to living like a civilian but with a ton of government benefits and opportunities. Screeching about being free as you work for wages at McDonalds isn't a good look.
>>
>>19460638
cope
>>
>>19461932
>you essentially go back to living like a civilian
Except the government now has complete legal control over you. If they say move across the country away from friends and family, you don’t get a choice.
It’s the ultimate cuckoldry
>>
>>19461967
You don't have to live in your mom's basement forever, anon.
>>
>>19461979
He's lying, if you leave your mom's basement you will die, nothing you can do about it.
>>
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>>19457685
As much as this guy, Klaus Schwab, is shat upon, the 4th industrial revolution is happening and is currently here. Most believe that advanced robots and advanced AI is 20,30,40+ years away, but no, it's all already here: it's just that the robots and AIs are packed in data centers specifically because they don't require that much space, and thus away from most peoples' eye.

Unfortunately, there is no real sympathy for poor people because there's nothing more unattractive (read: utility, not looks) than useless/poor people: even tribal villages shun those who are useless. However, one could argue that any political book is written for the masses like poor people.
>>
>>19457685
Why are you not jealous of the poor?
>>
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fucking retard kill yourself
half of the academics are bordering national poverty line
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>>19462106
Technology creates obsolescence which become unattractive/shunned. What do you do with the shunned people people they reach a critical mass?
>>
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>>19462173
Yes, that's the hard question of technology: what do we do to those who've become obsoleted through technology?

One normie answer is education: "We should educate people to become smarter and better and have jobs," one could say. But I think that's the wrong approach. I would say that an important factor in technology is that it gets rid of the concept of repetitive jobs in the first place. That's to say, if you need a human to do a certain work, then create or invent a robot that can do that certain work instead. Fundamentally, if humans can be taught, then there's someone who can program a robot to that specific thing—is there truly a difference between teaching people and programing robots?—are you not "programming" humans by teaching people?—and are you not "teaching" robots by programing robots?

So, what's for poor people and the average person in general? If you robots and AI are taking all the repetitive, teachable jobs and careers, what's left for humans? Honestly, I have no clue. Though, I think a better answer is for people to seek the infinite frontier (read: innovation, technological growth), or living the aesthetic life, or become like Gods. I must say, however, I'd accumulate as much money as possible because one thing is clear: it's over for poor people. It's a dark future for poor people, it's a bright future for those focused on technology.

Others would say "return to monke." But that's regression towards the definite and known past instead a progression towards the infinite and unknown future.
>>
>>19457700
I worked retail, didn't get health insurance and also I thought all my older coworkers were subhuman, so that wouldn't help at all.
>>
>>19457948
This but unironically, I have sympathy for people in shit situations but there is no situation in which a person above the age of 18 has to keep working a minimum wage job for the rest of their life unless they made bad decisions or are stupid, in ether case they deserve to suffer.

Is being poor unnecessarily hard? Yes. Is it impossible to get out of? No.

Every single person is capable of becoming at least lower middle class unless they are literally retarded.
>>
>>19459171
>Either way it should go without saying that people's intelligence level in no way justifies murdering them

It at the very least justifies reducing their abilitiy to engage with society ie voting, access to social media, etc
>>
>>19461924

No.
>>
As humans we are social animals who are members of tribes and complex intertwined societal structures. As a member of a group, the wellbeing of other members of the group also has an indirect effect on us as individuals. We need to be accountable to each other in order to ensure mutual prosperity. If we fail to do this then the group will disintegrate into chaos and all members of it will suffer as a result. This will be the a result of the failure of responsibility of those strong enough to hold the group together.
>>
>>19462479
collectivist pap. i am my own man.
>>
>>19462443
Cope supreme
>>
>>19458599
>mate
Go back
>>
>>19462325
Disenfranchised people result in revolutions. You don’t just declare a large group of people obsolete without blood being shed as a result.
>>
>>19462325
>So, what's for poor people and the average person in general?
The sad answer is just drugs. Drugs that numb your brain while you are getting porn streamed directly into your brain. You are hooked to the Masturbatron9000 day and night while microdosing LSD and heroin via IV, and your capsule-habitat is filled with pure vaporized THC essence.
You will still have to do brain-numbing work so you will look forward to the moment where you will get home and enjoy your spare time on drugs. No clock on the wall, you don't need to know what time it is, only that you have to get up in the morning for work.
>>
>>19462542
You wouldn’t be (You) without the environment you grew up in
>>
>>19461979
I don’t. I’d still rather live on the streets than give my freedom to an unfeeling military
>>
>>19457928
>Marketable skills is code word for: can you do something that someone else is willing to give you money for.
It's not coded at all you fucking idiot, learn to read.
>>
>>19457701
Look up “oogle” and stfu forever

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-WR0X7E2A1g
>>
>>19457685
wagies arent human.
>>
>>19463193
Wrong link

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j8RYGk3Kbhk
>>
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>>19460532
In multiple ways.
>It hasn't the triune of God, which is one of the biggest weaknesses of Christianity
>The leading figure (Muhammad) was stronger and a more natural man than Jesus, who's whole point is that he got defeated (the symbol of Christianity is even their God suffering)
>Islam produced in general more manly guys, Christians have a very compassionate and feminine character
And some more.
But that said, it's better that christians are not that strict in religious duties like muslims and they don't have mandatory circumcisions, which is just bullshits muslims took from the jews.
>>
>>19462106
>Most believe that advanced robots and advanced AI is 20,30,40+ years away, but no, it's all already here
Haha ok dud
>>
>work two minimum wage jobs
>30 hours a week so neither have to give benefits
>spend two years in a trade school
>no money or time left over for entertainment or relaxation
>now you can afford to only work 50 hours a week at one job
>barely above poverty line and your children will suffer a similar life, if not worse
v

>born rich
>party and bullshit through college
>get meaningless office job making 2-5x the salary of tradies while you nap in your office

lel muh trade jobs so good just pull yourself up by the bootstraps
>>
>>19457778
>feel sympathy for them as they should and could have been if they weren't crushed into subhuman retards with awful degenerate coping mechanisms.
This is like feeling sorry for people because they can't sprout wings and fly.

People don't become who they are by accident. You're a failure because you are a failure, you ARE guilty.
>>
>>19458385
You're such a fucking pseud. How old are you, really? Because your posts point toward hyper-privileged adolescent, maybe undergrad at a stretch. Join us in the real-world, silkworm
>>
>>19457778
>that quote
this is a guy who did nothing but fail then died in a concentration camp run by people who did what he thought should be done
>>
>>19458191
>hurr durr it all comes down to genes
>I'm an incel btw
You are literally the product of an unbroken line of evolutionary success.
Your genes are axiomatically viable and competitive, you're just a pathetic moron who can't even conjure up a coherent excuse for why they're such a loser.
>>
>>19457701
Sometimes their marketable skills didn't work out, or they started with a shittier lot in life. Mental illness can play a big role in this too.
>>
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>>19463261
This post is obviously wrong and retarded but it's hyperbolic in its idiocy I can't be bothered going point by point. It's almost exclusively the poor in America who 'afford' to have children and 3 seconds on Google can prove that most inherited wealth doesn't last more than 1 generation. If you're born poor in America and die poor, you should be ashamed, there's no lack of opportunity or government assistance.
>>
>>19463261
>decide to abandon the world
>that's it, I'll go to a monastery!
>visit the local Buddhist monastery
>gigantic queue of pilgrims
>try to skip queue
>people get angry
>say I died further up toward the beginning of the queue and I reincarnated
>they let me pass
>talk with the Bald Bhikkhu Baldassarro
>Bhikkhu how do I become a monk, I want to leave the world
>Anon all these people waiting the line want to become monks, they're all NEETs
>It cannot be, all of them?
>Yes and we're full
>What do you mean we're full, Bhikkhu-san I'm losing my patience here, make me a monk
>Did you know that you cannot become a monk unless you're 6' tall
>I never liked Buddhism anyway
>Go to the Capuchin monastery
>Also full
>Everyone's becoming a monk
>Decide to take the plunge, claim I'm a woman and attempt to become nun
>Go to local convent
>Anon we just take Black™ transgender nuns here
>What the fuck do you want, I can't do a reverse Michael Jackson too, isn't the dick chop enough
>Just be a lay anon, you are a troubled one
>NOOO NOOOOO
>Just be a lay and come to our LGBTQ+ church on Sundays. God will appreciate
>I CANNOT DO THAT, I DIDN'T COME HERE TO PLEASE GOD *BOOHOO* I HATE THE LGBTQ+
>You can just slip the money under the door anon, that's OK too
>NO I DON'T WANNA WAGEY
It was terrible anons
>>
>>19457685
I actually can't imagine being such a cunt. It's actually surprising how such simple bait inspires such revulsion.
>>
>>19463261
Getting an education was worth something like 50 years ago. I can't believe people keep pushing with nonce when there is not nearly enough data to extrapolate meaningful trends
>>
>>19457685
I've worked some shitty minimum wage jobs and they all made me want to blow my brains out on a daily basis. So now I feel really sad when I see these types of workers because I know how much it sucks. I think most jobs are terrible but at least a lot of them are somewhat well paid (which is itself debatable). But these poor minimum wage-tier jobs are so soul crushing, draining, and physically exhausting, and then the final kicker is you don't even get paid well. I just can't help but feel bad.
>>
>>19457685
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtxivzIMUl0&ab_channel=kimgary
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1MveHv1lTVBzdM5VYZkcBQ
Watch these. If these can't make you feel any sympathy you're souless.
>>
>>19457685
You just don't relate to them I think, maybe you were born with wealthy parents so you never had to put food on the table yourself. If you were ever put in a similar position, you'd feel sorry for yourself, and as a result you'd feel sorry for everyone who had to go through the same thing.
>>
>>19457685
It’s not good to occupy yourself with sympathy for the poor when you could be using your circumstances to improve yourself. This does not mean that you have to be absolutely heartless towards them, but nature has ordained them slaves and you a free individual. Implying that one should use their freedom to waste away feeling bad for others is a level of resentment I will never understand.
>>
>>19458052
you don't understand IQ and you give it a bad name
you are a fuckin NPC
i can almost understand the communist hate for IQ
almost
>>
Your degree of compliance matters far more when it comes to success than whatever genetic assets you might have.
>>
>>19463271
this is just warmed-over calvinism
>>
>>19462405
>family has roots in a small rural town
>town is dying
>leave town you grew up in and everybody you know behind to make powerpoints for $70k
>stay and work at the sole dollar general and take care of your elderly relatives
some people make the second choice
>>
>>19466130
And what determines your compliance if your not your genes?

Usually the only thing required for success is the willingness to take risks on top of a modicum of intelligence. This is beyond 90% of people.
>>
>>19460688
how do you explain the declining standard of living in the united states
>>
(All these replies)
OP knew exactly what he was doing
>>
>>19457685
Hard Times, Dickens
>>
>>19457701
Lmao the amount of butthurt this post inflicted on neets who won't breed. You are 100% correct, barring serious disability there is no excuse to be such an unformed person 3 decades into life.
>>
>>19459420
looks like they added one abhorrent character to the book just so you will have someone to hate more than you already hated the main character.
>>
>>19457685
>>19466820
I don't understand these types of bugman, they rate themselves with the amount of money they earn for someone? Social status is irrelevant unless you are boomer or something, and what are you going to do with money? buy stuff and travel? these people are sooooo weird dude.
>>
>>19465342
>Implying that one should use their freedom to waste away feeling bad for others is a level of resentment I will never understand.
One can find joy in sympathy, one can find joy in suffering. Why would you deprive yourself of this very human emotion.
You are incomplete, perhaps a sociopath(?), and not a human. I lament that we have to share a language and that you have to pollute the speech with your dribble
>>
This is one of the most disgusting threads I've ever read on /lit/. Humanity truly is irredeemable.
>>
>>19458905
average gigachad vocabulary
>>
>>19460218
Mental illness exists but it's misdiagnosed intentionally for profit. Transvestites are a glaring example of mental illness proven by the fact they they're willing mutilate their genitalia to appease their delusions.

Anecdotal evidence that argues for the for-profit scheme is the time I was referred to a psychiatrist for a potential sleep disorder. Of course, I was led through the gambit of vague survey questions that attempted to subtley convince the surveyee that they're experiencing some variation of depression. Even though I repeatedly claimed I was not depressed they still prescribed depression medication. I tried the pills for a few days and I found myself disgusted with the feeling and, now, psychiatry as a whole. I threw everything away and vow to never interact with these parasites again.

The other side of the coin concerns the fools who let these parasites convince them that they're weak and helpless and thus require assistance. These fools have no shame of their weakness and unscrupulously announce, at any opportunity, their perceived shortcomings to conceal their true shortcomings. Instead of being lazy they are "anxious". They aren't stupid they have a "learning disorder". These fools cannot overcome the cognitive dissonance of their inflated self-image and their average presence in reality.
>>
>>19466859
>Social status is irrelevant unless you are boomer
holy fucking cope..
>>
>>19463303
I'm not ashamed. Just defeated. We're in a big squeeze and not all of us will make it. This has always been true.
>>
>>19466988
It’s because clueless incels think they are aristocrats by stating their contrarian opinion, completely oblivious to the fact that it could have been them in that position.
Meanwhiles the rich laugh at these idiots defending the system online for free.
>>
>>19467017

Gamut. You mean to say gamut, not "gambit". Learn it for next time.

Sure has been a lot of discussion of literature in this thread.
>>
>>19467164
I was just playing doubles advocate. Don't take it too seriously.
>>
>>19466145
At this point you're arguing for some weird genetic determinism where every action you take is dictated by your genes, that's fucking retarded. What I'm talking about is
>Do thing that is bad/immoral
>Yes
Not even muh science will tell you that everything boils down to genes, your upbringing and environment counts as well, and there is also an element of personal choice involved. What kind of horrible depressed hopeless subhuman can you be to think of everything as "it's genes, it's your genes", I assume that only someone who's completely hopeless can think this way, so if you're basically genetic waste why not just kill yourself? Are you going to reply that you're too weak to kill yourself because of your genes?
>>
>>19467187

>t. subtly acknowledges the correction without admitting ignorance

As long as you look up the word and use it right next time, that's what counts.
>>
>>19463303
>there's no lack of opportunity or government assistance
You keep repeating this, but just because you assert something doesn't make it true. One need only look at the quality of education in America, the quality of parenting, opportunities exist but not everyone is well equipped to meet them and this is ever increasingly the case
>>
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>>19467275
>and this is ever increasingly the case
The reverse is true. The fact is 90% of all people have always been trash. It doesn't matter how accommodating the system is, they will find someone to blame for their trashness. And the system is accommodating, there has never been a better time to be alive. Only idiots learn from education or their parents, this is and has always been the case.
>>
>>19467384
Why are you so angry?
>>
>>19467399
I'm not, that's your mediocrity projecting potential excuses. I think it's actually quite enjoyable to rub people's noses in the poop that is their own lives.
>>
>>19457692
Fpbp
>>
>>19457685
>>19457701
The irony is that someone like Forestanon who is dirt poor is more respectable than you'll ever be
>>
>>19467410
LMAO. I don't disagree that I am mediocre, but that is a source of my strength—from it I grow.
>>
>>19467410
I used to do the same with my puppy. The difference is my dog eventually learned not to piss and shit in the house.
>>
>>19467384
You don't know nearly enough people to make a claim that 90% are trash. It'll always be skewed by your personal perception, or worse, you base your data solely off shit you see online
>>
>>19466820
>if you don't have a good job, you are unformed
Very poor view of humanity. God help you
>>
>>19467468
Perhaps his achievements, if he has any to boast, are impressive to the dunces of the world, but I suspect he understands too well the true measure of his mediocrity
>>
>>19457685
Be humble. You probably wouldn't like that same McDonalds worker judging you as a loser, shut-in that tries to flex their nuts anonymously(!!) on 4chan.
>>
>>19466828
Idk see how the main character is unlikable. Just weird.
>>
>>19467526
Hey buddy at least I'm not flipping freakin burgers Jack. Anon or not. I'm working a real job. Big time stuff over at Liberty Mutual filling out spreadsheets and checking people's rates. I have no time to think of the paupers and the lessers unless I'm being paid to think of them.
>>
>>19467633
youre an insurance salesman/excel monkey and flexing that

come on dude
>>
>>19467424
I love Forestanon I hope he's doing well
>>
>>19467633
>Anon or not. I'm working a real job. Big time stuff over at Liberty Mutual filling out spreadsheets and checking people's rates
A petty bourgeoisie defending the hierarchy, how archetypal literal NPC
>>
>>19467468
>>19467526
truly truly pathetic cope
>>
>>19467633
>Hey buddy at least I'm not flipping freakin burgers Jack
Coping and projecting. I work in architecture; it's fulfilling work that makes enough for me to live comfortably
>Big time stuff over at Liberty Mutual filling out spreadsheets and checking people's rates. I have no time to think of the paupers and the lessers unless I'm being paid to think of them.
Have you ever read a book? Do you have meaning or purpose outside your material wealth?

This reads like a Patrick Bateman LARP
>>
>>19458661
just stop being depressed lol like go sniff a daisy and pet a dog or something haha
>>
>>19467813
I'm going to church, and if only to a degree it is working.
>>
>>19457685
The Brothers Karamazov, but only the Ilyusha parts. Also, the short story "What Men Live By" by Tolstoy.
>>
>>19466868
You call me the unhuman," it might say to him, "and so I really am—for you; but I am so only because you bring me into opposition to the human, and I could despise myself only so long as I let myself be hypnotized into this opposition. I was contemptible because I sought my 'better self' outside me; I was the unhuman because I dreamed of the 'human'; I resembled the pious who hunger for their 'true self' and always remain 'poor sinners'; I thought of myself only in comparison to another; enough, I was not all in all, was not—unique. But now I cease to appear to myself as the unhuman, cease to measure myself and let myself be measured by man, cease to recognize anything above me: consequently—adieu, humane critic! I only have been the unhuman, am it now no longer, but am the unique, yes, to your loathing, the egoistic; yet not the egoistic as it lets itself be measured by the human, humane, and unselfish, but the egoistic as the—unique.
>>
Tfw 25 and working at walmart.
A-at least I get to read on my hour long lunch break right?
>>
>>19466149
I'm pretty sure it's life expectancy that's gone down, but this is a pretty recent phenomenon in certain parts of the country. If it were always true that people could only grow rich at others expense the poor in America right now would be the poorest the country had ever seen.
>>
>>19468430
I hope you are working on not working at Walmart in the future
>>
>>19457700
>>19457717
Reminder that « Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!bGBGaUpA8kS is an over 60 year old lesbian that works a minimum wage job and tripfags on 4channel for fun. NOW POINT AND LAUGH!!!!
You aren't going to convince OP that he isn't right tranny, lmao.
>>
>>19468558
Nobody gives a shit about tripfags, shut up.
>>
>>19468497
There are parts of America that are really fucking poor. Look at West Virginia.
>>
>>19460688
>Economics is not zero sum
It is for all practical purposes since most of the resources acquired go to the hands of the wealthy.
>>
>>19460852
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTJrNHdzm0k
>>
>>19468838
>>19469037
I would contend that Amazon has added to the wealth of society through the efficiency and utility it adds to the distribution of goods for billions of people. Any capital bezos receives from that is not merely redirection of a part of a finite pool, but a part of the capital which was freed by Amazon's more efficient use of resources
>>
>jannies autosaging
thank god



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