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What are the best anti-psychiatry books?
Anything similar to Szasz's The Myth of Mental Illness, Foucault's Madness and Civilization, etc.
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>>19448458
The divided mind by RD Laing
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I've read madness and civ. It is absurd how we treat intentful criminals better than people that couldn't keep up with the fast changing world.
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Bump
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Bruce E. Levine - I have red his book Ressisting Illegimate authority, where he gives example on how antiauthoritarians became institutionalized. He is an ex clinical - knows the insides. Really like his idea about that person who finds self esteem can heal from mental stuff without drugs which are evil pharma shit.
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>>19448858
>Bruce E. Levine
The jew that other jews tell to shut up. Nice.
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>>19448458
Don't know if this counts but whatever
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>>19448458
If you can read french, "Les libérés" by Canudo, a visionary novel taking place at the beginning of the 20th century in a libertarian phalanstary, where sexuality and music are of therapeutical use for alienated people.
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>>19448458
If you don't believe in psychiatry then why waste your time reading books about it?
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>>19450119
I don't believe in the holocaust, but I've read a dozen books about it.
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>>19448458
not a thrilling read, but torpedoes the npc sentiment of neurobiological essentialism.
>>19450119
because regardless of whether you "believe" in psychiatry, it is a tool for violence to be utilized by the state. at any time and for any reason, it can have its definition changed on a whim to include (You) should it further their ends. that's an outdated take which doesn't consider private psychiatry, so put two and two together there.
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>>19450119
Well, they're typically Psych pts that disliked being told they were unfit or unwell in childhood/adolescence. Rather than accepting the flawed diagnostic criteria for what it is, they militate against the obvious reality of the mentally ill and discourage the use of medications. Typically they start with the proto-Scientologist Szasz and work back to Freud...instead of opening a textbook. In my experience, anyway.
>>19450142
>>19450217
Typical.
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>>19448899
I am not sure if you're a pedophile but fuck you. This book makes some good arguments but there is a reason why nambla uses this book to defend it's action. If anything, this is a prime example of how science in general can be manipulated by people. Her main argument is that it isn't trauma but rather confusion, yeah no fucking shit. A childs mind is "innocent", of coarse they are going to be confused and that in no way justifies sexually abusing a child. Fuck outta here with that bull shit.
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>>19450242
kek, Psychiatry/psychology have yet to come up with a decent definition of "mental illness", so usually they just define it as "whatever makes a person unfit to integrate into the workforce"
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Michel Onfray - Anti-Freud
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>>19448458
anti psychiatry? you mean ableism? it is offensive against non-neurotypical people to claim mental illness is caused by capitalism. instead we should use science to ñlook at the way we are subconsciously subject to systemic oppression according to an intersectional framework
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>>19450728
this, the best way of understanding mental illness is through an evidence based intersectional approach, to do otherwise will be to fall in the anti science propaganda being promoted by reactionaries. notice how mental illness denial (aka internalized oppresion)tends to be more common amongst neurodivergent people who are white cis and male?
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From my point of view, society is mentally ill
t. Anakin
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>>19450217
but aren't you being ableist and denying science? why is the state bad, are you a libertarian? its not the state that is the problem, its the prejudices in the minds of individuals like you and the internalized oppression which the dominant society forces on marginalized people. have you tried talking to an actual neurodivergent person before? I am studying law in order to combat institutional ableims
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>>19450873
based
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>>19450273
>I am not sure if you're a pedophile but fuck you.
Nice reasoning anon
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>>19450879
objection, your honor, the prosecution is leading the witness.
>denying science
how about you read the book, twitter psued. antidepressants, by the very trials that supported their proliferation, are only slightly more effective than sugar pills. hundreds of trials failed to show any improvement at all, but that's conveniently left out of the commercial.
oh, and go take a look at a self-administered psychometric battery some time and tell me how scientific that is.
>lolbertarian
no. regulatory capture is why this shit happened in the first place. the state is...le bad, and maybe you should think more if that has yet to dawn upon you.
>ableist
you're completely missing the point here. i want sick people to feel better. psychiatry does not. psychiatry continues to exist precisely because it offers no solutions yet remains the only game in town.
and anyways, by your inane and nebulous definitions, wouldn't ableism be pathologizing any norm-conflicting sociocognitive patterns? neurodivergent is a problematic term innit?
>i am studying law
pre-law doesn't count sweetie, try making it through your first semester before planning your judicial crusade.
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>>19450242
I've never read any of these books but I still consider myself anti psych. Because I was diagnosed with depression as a teenager and put on the happy pills which did nothing. Absolute nothing. What actually made me come out of it was becoming more confident in myself as a person and coming to the realization that if you're going to be melancholic all the time then you might as well kill yourself. But nobody actually wants to kill themselves, they just like to imagine not existing because they're weak. The ones who do it or attempt it are attention seekers. Anyway I turned myself around by my own power and came to see the good in life. All the negativity and special snowflake bullshit around depression just reinforces it, something I found to be true looking on my younger years.
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>>19450242
Well if people's lives get fucked up by corrupt doctors, you can bet your ass they're going to be pissed off about it. Fool me once type of shit, in case anyone was wondering. I know you probably don't care.

Anyway, anti-psychiatry has been said to have led to the collapse of the Soviet Union, if anything there needs to be more of this sort of thing penned.
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>>19450987
>slightly more effective than sugar pills
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)32802-7/fulltext
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Anatomy of an Epidemic

>>19450728
Good point. Many "mentally ill" people simply have genes that are maladaptive for modern society. You should read Anti-Oedipus if you haven't - it filtered me, the theoretical concepts are above my head for now but what you said is basically its thesis.
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>>19450273
Highly emotional, complete with yellow journalism tactics ("nambla uses this book").

You're parroting and hoping nobody notices.
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>>19451137
>Many "mentally ill" people simply have genes that are maladaptive for modern society
But isn't the point of anti-psychiatry to recognize them as just that, instead of pathologizing them as inherently inferior and in need of being reconditioned?
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>>19450273
>A childs mind is "innocent"
Children understand consent and irregardless, no love is illegal.
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>>19451091
>In our dataset, we found that response to the same antidepressant was on average smaller and dropouts more likely to occur in placebo controlled trials than in head-to-head studies.
Essentially saying that the same drugs are more effective when the patient is fully aware that they are taking real medication. In double blinded studies, participants that are given the active drug are able to correctly guess that they've been given the drug around 90% of the time thanks to side effects.
In double blinded studies that use active placebos where every participant notices side effects, the difference in efficacy shrinks.
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>>19451015
>But nobody actually wants to kill themselves,
completely wrong
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>>19451015
Sounds like you were just being a big bitch and weren't actually mentally ill.
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>>19451176
Yes I meant to argue in favor of that point but I just realized the anon was arguing against it. I disagree with him, just jumped onto his post since it was the first to raise my personal theory. Sorry, combination of careless reading and his confusing, overly semantic non-argument.
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>>19450142
Very based
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>>19451160
I merely used that as an example but even if there was no nambla it would only help push the idea that somehow children like getting molested/raped by adults. People like you are clearly fucking too stupid to understand the power dynamic between a child an adult or the fact that the author herself left out a lot of critical info like how 7/10 victims did identify their experience as traumatic. So if anyone is being biased it would be her.
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On Depression by Ghaemi is excellent. He's a psychiatrist but also philosophically trained. Going back and worth with him via email is what made me want to stop becoming a psychiatrist.
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>>19451358
Yeah blame him not the doctor pushing pills like candy to your average clueless teenager going through a hormonal depressive spell, which is probably 90% of teens these days, not surprised almost every other student at my college takes like 3 different meds.
Faggot
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There really needs to be some kind of broader anti-psychiatric movement nowadays. Lots of people's lives have been destroyed by quacks upon loads of shady bullshit that would seem to be happening behind the scenes.
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How much of this is just about the failures of dealing with depression and anxiety vs things like schizophrenia and the like ?
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>>19448488
Interesting point. Maybe it has something to do with criminals forcing the hand of the state through the troubles they inflict, where as a person falling behind in society can be ignored. Yet another case of the strong and cruel winning their rights over the meek and humble.
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>>19451820
Not that anon but it is a matter of them being meek and humble or simply that they have far greater needs for support and a far lower capacity to support themselves.
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>>19451710
>There really needs to be some kind of broader anti-psychiatric movement nowadays
As much as I'd like for this to happen, they'd never allow it in this day and age; they've got way too much power.
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>>19451727
Read it and find out.
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>>19449704
Sounds cool almost makes me want to learn french.
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>>19450774
So many meme words. Lmao at mental illness denial being "internalized oppression"
Not sure what that would even mean in this context. Someone's regurgitating stuff they heard in a college lecture....
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>>19448458
The only way you could dismiss psychiatry outright is if you haven't actually seen or experienced mental illness. Critiques are fine but you sound like a twelve year old who hasn't experienced real life.
I hope nobody in your family ever experiences schizophrenia, mania, psychosis, or addiction.
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>>19452191
I think what op wants to do is question how effective drugs are and whether we are properly "diagnosing" people. The mind is a mystery and I personally think that mental illness is not so much an illness but part of being human, we can not avoid it entirely but we can minimize pain/suffering.
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>>19451727
Schizophrenia treatment is one of the most critiqued, even by many pro-psychiatry people. Typically critiques of depression and anxiety are more about attacking the concept of things these as a diagnosis instead of recognizing it as something human.
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>>19451015
Glad for you, but you surely lack great nuance on others own experience of psychological despair and capacity / possibility to overcome it or cope with it for a lifetime, whatever are the affixed or associated words. Crashing mentally against the world, its structures and components, tangible and intangible, shouldn't be narrowed and oversimplified by any by heart professional knowledge and with such ignorant disdainful flippancy of yours. Keeping a broad, open and comprehensive approach of forms and expressions is primordial over everything else - it requires time, which unfortunately respects more schedules than the real necessity of it.
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>>19448458
Dianetics
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>>19451015
>happy pills didn't help me (one person out of billions) therefore they don't work

Well my anecdotal story is that they do work since they've practically cured my terrible anxiety. I get it, le big pharma is awful and they just want your money, but let's not pretend that these meds do absolutely nothing for everyone. Of course I understand they don't work for everyone (as seen in your case), but to take your own personal experience and apply it to the rest of the population is rather foolish.

>What actually made me come out of it was becoming more confident in myself as a person

I personally see medication (for depression and anxiety) as a push in the right direction, not an overnight cure, so I do agree that you still have to put in the work to better yourself.

>But nobody actually wants to kill themselves
>The ones who do it or attempt it are attention seekers

I think that plenty of people actually want to kill themselves (I've been there myself), even if attention is a part of it. How horrible must someones life be if they are willing to end it for a bit of attention they won't even be able to see? How lonely and misunderstood must they be to get pushed to this point of going against all of one of the core instincts of evolution?

Instead of having empathy for them, you call them weak and snowflakes. Instead of blaming the state that put them in this position, you blame the victim.
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>>19452191
I’m fairly young but I’ve had my hair share of “real life” there’s something really disturbing about modern day psychiatry. Maybe it’s just me hyper focusing on the roastie brigade (please tell me this is the case) but it’s convinced most modern people that if your friends and parents aren’t constantly telling you that they love you, that you weren’t born in a perfect upper middle class family that earns at least 6 figures you are carrying some sort of trauma. It feels a bit self centered at times. of course if you are a straight male and are depressed and maybe enraged because society has emasculated you and stripped away any meaningful war or struggle away from you, and has now placed you in a completely soulless world where your career is dictated by a system of time stalling soul crushing credentials (collage) to land you a globohomo middle management office job, you are just an example of “toxic masculinity” and you need to work on yourself sweety
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>>19450273
Typical low iq moralfag seething
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>>19450242

If a parent, teacher, or some other authority figure is having repeated issues with a child a psychiatric referral is always possible and once the referral is done a diagnosis is very likely for pragmatic reasons. This is why so many people "grow out of" ADHD and other largely fake categories
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>>19453236
>Maybe it’s just me hyper focusing on the roastie brigade (please tell me this is the case) but it’s convinced most modern people that if your friends and parents aren’t constantly telling you that they love you, that you weren’t born in a perfect upper middle class family that earns at least 6 figures you are carrying some sort of trauma. It feels a bit self centered at times. of course if you are a straight male and are depressed and maybe enraged because society has emasculated you and stripped away any meaningful war or struggle away from you, and has now placed you in a completely soulless world where your career is dictated by a system of time stalling soul crushing credentials (collage) to land you a globohomo middle management office job, you are just an example of “toxic masculinity” and you need to work on yourself sweety
I sympathize with all your talking points. As someone older than you, I will advise you to take steps every day to escape as much of that fate as both, or mitigate it with things you love. If you have to work the soulless job, do it for a wife you love and your kids, etc. Because in the end you have to do all that shit anyways and if you are by yourself it becomes unbearable.
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>>19451860
Small steps, I guess. I'm seeing more threads about this lately, I don't know if that's new or not but there seems to be a budding one on 4chan already.

I've heard accounts of Big Pharma literally writing the laws, like as in hiring teams of lawyers to pen laws that are then enacted through congress in the US. That might be hyperbole but it also might not, and at this rate it would kind of be hard to tell. And by the way, psychiatrists are very, very hard to sue. They basically can just get away with whatever they want, is how it's been described to me. Medical malpractice suits have to be as cut and dry as a surgeon leaving an AIDS-infested scalpel in someone, and even then sometimes it's hard to win. Most of the evidence is in the form of cryptic notes taken by the docs themselves. There's just no accountability there.
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>>19452298
>Schizophrenia treatment
Whats the current consensus?
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>>19448458
ШУE ППШ ШПШ
CMEPTЬ CAHИTAPAM
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>>19448458
ANTI-OEDIPUS and THOUSAND PLATEUS
READ DELEUZE
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>therapy good
>pills bad
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>pro-ignorance /lit/erature
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>>19453750
Ignorance of what?
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>>19448461
I know Laing is popular in some anti-psychiatry circles, but I wouldn't really place him in the "mental illness is a myth" crowd. He just felt we treated it wrongly and should put the patient and their internal experience front and centre, rather than a behaviouralist view.
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>>19453307
>>19451253
Probably bait, but if not if I found you pedos in public I'd fucking brain you with a rock.

Please advocate for yourself in public.
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>>19448899
I fully expect this book to be banned in my lifetime.

The author is brave, and she makes an interesting theory.
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>>19450336
>Mental illness: A state of mind that is detrimentally to your health or life.

That was easy.
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>>19454052
>that is detrimentally
In which case the mindstate of others could easily classify as "mental illness," which would make sense considering the current paradigm of mainstream argumentation.
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>>19450273
If you read the book, you’d know it isn’t her argument.

She takes data from interviews of children who have been sexually abused and they state their feelings and mindset as “confused and embarrassed”

If you actually want to help kids like you LARP to, surly you wouldn’t want to teach them they have been traumatized when they don’t feel that way.

Example..
1: A creepy step-dad holding an ice cream cone says to a small girl “touch me here, and I’ll give this to you.”

2: A creepy step-dad holding a knife says to a small girl “touch me here or I’ll use this on you.”

Do you think both of those girls experienced the same thing?
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>>19451634
The book doesn’t do that. If you read it you’d know that.

You were clearly raped as a kid. Or you knew someone who was and you didn’t do anything about it.

Hope you get some help.
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>>19453236
You're thinking about the foucaultian therapeutic sensibility. Each of the problems you bring up as within the scope of psychiatry are actually far, far below the actual aim of the field. I agree there are private practice shrinks who spend a decent amount of time with run of the mill depression cases, but the majority work in hospitals with major mental illness.
I invite you to check out some videos of people in frank psychosis or manic episodes.
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>>19448458
>This many pedos in a thread about mental illness being a myth
No fucking shock, most kid diddlers were molested themselves.
They all deserve a quick death, a bullet between the eyes. They need to all be put down, but they are sick so should not be tortured.

I want all of you pedos to know, you are alone, and should kill yourselves. Nobody around you would even tolerate your life, your existence if they found out. You are a sick plague, a malady to the world as a whole, and would be doing the world a favor if you went somewhere and just died.
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>kinda wanna get into psychology/psychiatry
>99% of whatever i'll see are depressed feeble-minded people, with a few irredemeable nuts sprinkled here and there.
kind of a turn-off.
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>>19454079
What a disingenuous fuck you are. Both are coercive, both are traumatic - degree of trauma isn't an argument for nonvalidity in assessment or treatment. That you think this is some meaningful critique tells me two things:
>1) You're unable to recognize self-report as inarticulancy in presentation.
>2) You don't work with children.
Get help.
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>>19453963
Shut the fuck up lmao, keyboard warrior. I suggest investing your energy into training reading comprehension instead of impotent seething.
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>>19454052
So what about socities were violent rituals are normalized. Im thinking of the Aztecs here. We're they all just mentally ill? At that point the concept appears pretty unverifiable.
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>>19454823
Just go into public and let people know you are a pedo.

Do it.

Do it and get what you deserve, what you know you deserve.
Even better, type your address here.
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>>19454052
>Person takes decisions that are suboptimal to his health or life quality in the name of his personal ethics
>MENTAL ILLNESS, UNLIKE BEING A TRANNY, WHICH IS NORMAL ACCORDING TO OUR MANUAL! COMRADES, LOCK HIM UP AND STUFF HIM WITH DRUGS!
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>>19448899
I can tell you from personal experience that whatever you are trying to say is complete bullshit. Sexual abuse in the early years stays with you for the rest of your life.
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>>19455227
Ur just mad cuz im sippin on that cunny juice
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>>19451160
>Highly emotional, complete with yellow journalism tactics ("nambla uses this book").
A hallmark of jewish rhetoric
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>>19455291
Literally what the book is about...
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>>19448488
Intentional criminals can be used for labor, loonies who talk to trees can’t.
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>>19448458
take yours meds
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>>19453686
Бaзиpoвaннo хyли
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>>19454079
>Do you think both of those girls experienced the same thing?
Are you really going to say they didn't?
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>>19454052
>anyone who participates in modern life is mentally ill
well yes
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>>19454079
Both deserve to be beaten to death with rusty chains
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>>19453307
whatever pussy, you clearly lack the brain power to refute my claims.
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>>19454079
I understood what the book said but you clearly know little about the human mind or human emotions. For one, chidren are still learning and their minds can not process what they are going through. If I tried to put my dick in your mouth without YOUR consent you would not be ok with it. A child is no different, they could easily be manipulated. It also goes without saying that when you get older you get a clearer picture of people's intentions. If you knew that someone used you for their own personal sexual gratification you would be disgusted. There's also something sick/sociopathic about getting off on a child that is crying/afraid.
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>>19454085
You are clearly a retard. How about you read the evidence that the author forget to bring up or the fact that her arguments failed to explain why it is ok for adults to take advantage of a child that is 100% vulnerable.
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>>19450273
Stop trying to convince me to read this book.
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>>19454052
>You smoke? Mentally ill
>Eat hamburgers? Mentally ill
>Drink alcohol? Mentally ill
>Don't exercise your technocracy mandated 4 times a week? Mentally ill
>NEET? Mentally ill
The list can be expanded endlessly according to the needs of the powerful.
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>>19458777
>NEET? Mentally ill
unironically true
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>>19459544
And yet you can't prove that without using a nebulous definition of mental illness that could apply to many other things.
>>
Lit proves itself smarter and more involved

No contest
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>>19454977
Yes, they were. Next question
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>>19458665
...literally what the book is saying though? Are moralfags mentally demented or something?
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>>19461039
The book is implying that child trauma isn't child trauma because most victims are "confused/embarrassed". It omits a number of other facts that people who have been sexually abused DO suffer trauma. The more you know.
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>>19461082
Holy fuck, why do you comment on something you clearly havent read? She constantly repeats that sexual abuse TRAUMATIZES children, just that the onset of trauma occurs LATER. Read the book you moron
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>>19459544
Depressed doesnt mean thousands of different things
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YOU VILL TAKE ZHE ANTIDEPRESSANTS, YOU VILL BE A PRODUCTIVE MEMBER OF OUR TECHNOCRATIC SOCIETY, AND YOU VILL BE HAPPY!
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>>19448458
oh look its another psychiatry thread, I wonder how many of the people in this thread:

1) Are actually angry at psychiatrists because they don't understand neurosis isn't a mental illness so they attach serious mental illness like psychosis and delusional paranoia into the same basket

2) Are faggots who blame psychiatrists because 50mg of Zoloft made them " A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PERSON!!!1 wowza!!" and not realize its their faggotry and lack of virtue that leads them further into their neurosis, and psychiatrists have less influence then they think

3) Never saw an actual schizo with their own eyes, because if they did they wouldn't be anti-psychiatry

Its all so tiresome. Just stop being a faggot, if you don't want to take your pills no one is forcing you to.
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>>19462276
>if you don't want to take your pills no one is forcing you to

>be me
>go off pills
>get involuntarily commited to hospital
>get freed
>go off pills
>get involuntarily commited to hospital
>get freed
>go off pills
>get involuntarily commited to hospital
>get freed
>go off pills
>get involuntarily commited to hospital
>get freed
>go off pills
>get involuntarily commited to hospital
>get freed
>go off pills
>get involuntarily commited to hospital
>get freed
>go off pills
>get involuntarily commited to hospital
>get freed
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>>19462315
>Umm... b-but... I-it's for your own good!
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>>19460977
Okay so you're just a retard. Cool
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>>19451650
>Going back and worth with him via email is what made me want to stop becoming a psychiatrist.
you don't have to go into great detail, but what (are some things he said) in those email exchanges (that) made you not want to become a psychiatrist?
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>>19462315
how tf do you get involuntarily commited to the hospital? That shit doesn't happen in my country. What mental illness do you have? Bipolar?
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>>19462960
Danger to yourself or others - actively suicidal with plan, disclosed ideation with intent to self-harm. Violent with incoherent speech (typically drug-induced psychosis, very common with habitual meth users). If you tell someone you want to die or you want to kill others - the physician has discretionary power and can have you detained (ED is 3 business days) and placed in acute care for observation. They can be set up with outpatient therapy after detox to manage substance abuse or they can repeat (also typical). It's not terribly complicated.
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>>19463003
I mean... if you are in those conditions you kind of need constant observation, or no? I mean if you really are determined to offing yourself, you'll lie and then finish the job when you get home

Don't get me wrong psychiatrists are a cancer but isn't involuntary admission kind of justified under those conditions?
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>>19450728
Surprised no one's biting on this juicy buzzword bait...
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>>19463003
Depends - documentation can be altered to make someone appear more suicidal (from passive to active) to bilk insurance. Most of the time, BHCs (behavioral health consults) are recorded and reviewed by both Nurses and attending Physicians to minimize errors in charting. The patient is asked several questions (prior history, prior meds, current drug use, medical conditions, SI, HI, living conditions and so on) to establish criteria. Some methhead battering people in the ER needs a place to detox and probably needs support to manage the habit (same with alcoholics and opioid users). Overdose on Grandma's meds to kill yourself because your girlfriend left? Probably needs inpatient. Four-year-old is hitting his siblings? Probably not. The thing to realize is that a lot of these people need real help. Meds can help. Therapy can help. Sometimes nothing helps, or help hurts. That's how you get the people in this thread
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>>19463202
Unfathomly based and accurate
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>>19461183
Can you read ? her book implies that a lot of that trauma is due to psychologists projecting certain feelings onto them when the truth is that there re more women that have been sexually abused that are traumatized and have never seen a therapist. You clearly know nothing about the subject but what can I expect from 4chan.
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>>19458665
>If you knew that someone used you for their own personal sexual gratification you would be disgusted.

People do this to each other all the time and are OK with it as adults, children only feel that way because they are told to feel that way.

You see this happen all the time with kids who are crying after falling down, if you start laughing they laugh it off, if you start making a big deal out of it they cry even harder.
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>>19464222
Not true at all, there are big differences between falling and being raped/molested. You seem to not understand how consent works which is one of the traits of sociopaths/psychopaths.
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>>19450217
>because regardless of whether you "believe" in psychiatry, it is a tool for violence to be utilized by the state. at any time and for any reason, it can have its definition changed on a whim to include (You) should it further their ends. that's an outdated take which doesn't consider private psychiatry, so put two and two together there.

>schizo rambling

i see why you hate psychiatry
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>>19464245
>raped/molested.
>begging the qestions

please dilate
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>>19463067
Involuntary hospitalization is difficult to justify, if only for the knock-on effect of making it so less patients feel safe confessing to their pschologists, and less likely to get the help they actually need.
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>>19451015
I dunno about you, but it sounds like the happy pills did work
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>>19454052
Define what it means to be "healthy", and define "detrimental". Psychologists can never do it properly, get definitions that everyone agrees with, and were actually logically reasoned rather than being defined by modern political movements and opinions
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>>19463561
>her book implies that a lot of that trauma is due to psychologists projecting certain feelings onto them
I just read the book because of this thread. This is not what it says at all. It says that, most of the time, the trauma is caused by the victims understanding the abuse later on, instead of at the time it happens, and feeling betrayed and ashamed.



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