>Get to have sex with anyone you want>Use whatever drugs you want>Free to do whatever you wantSo how is this bad?
>>18427331I haven't even finished the book, but it's obvious. The experiences you have are inorganic.
>>18427331No one ever reads the classics with you and the noble savage is bullied, you bully
>>18427331depends on your worldview. if youre an atheist and nihilist, i guess it doesnt seem bad.
>>18427331>Free to do whatever you want???????????
>>18427331>I'm a retarded ape who lives for physical self-satisfaction and I'm willing to allow a centralized power control my civil and economic liberties and dominate my entire existence to the point of owning my physical body because at least my pee pee was satisfied
>>18427331I remember reading this when i was liberal and not even understanding what was wrong with the society but now it scares the fuck out of me how close we are to this.manufactured justice, non commital sex everywhere, no body reads or even wants to, everyone drugged up on anti-deppressents. a society perfectly crafted for hedonism and productivity, you’ll own nothing and you’ll be happy
>>18427331Even if you accept the central premise that everyone in the Brave New World-society will be happy (which they will be, there is literally no way to be unhappy with soma and you're basically bred to become happy in your role), there is still the question of whether 'happiness' should be the true end goal that we should be striving towards.If that is the case and happiness is the thing that matters most to you, then yes, Brave New World is an utopia.
>>18427331A stagnant society with no innovation because that would challenge/up-root the social norms and customs so ingrained that it would jeopardize the systems existence. People in this thread have called it 'productive' but what productivity? What great goal was going on? What breakthroughs? Creations of art, literatures, music? The complete dismissal of a whole spectrum (and then some) of human emotion and experience in the pursuit of 'perfect' blissful harmony and manufactured happiness for no purpose other than 'harmony' and 'happiness'. All those great works and moments in human history inspired by that perspective so given and delivered by those negative emotions and experiences no longer can be interpreted or even new works in this vein created. In this story were there space stations or attempts to colonise space? Were great athletics feats competed for or new records set - would there have been 'losers' in this world and acknowledged so?
>>18427338Hmmm kind of like travelling to post your ass and thinly veiled vagina on social media. #blessed btw.
>>18427378Still waiting to hear how's this bad
>>18427331How's your sex life so far?
>>18427331One of my favourite books.
>>18427331>Free to do whatever you wantNot true, btw
>>18427695Why is innovation important?
>>18427331You can only have sex people within your caste. Also you can’t do whatever you want, they still have jobs in the World State. If you need to take drugs so much then you live in a shitty society.
>>18427331Here's why Brave New World is a dystopia:>A caste system, people are no longer born but instead made for a specific. Most of these castes are retarded too except for the alphas (OP would probably be from one of these retard castes).>Hollow sexual experiences/lack of connection, the point Huxley made with all the sexual intercourse was that it was a tool used by the state to destroy human connections. If you were ever on the verge of a good hard talk, or a heart to heart connection you'd just fuck. >Absolute TRASH material, more like our world but worse. But there's no good material, its all sexual junk>No growing old. The state will literally kill you when you hit your 40's, because growing old will potentially cause you to become introspective. >You're constantly high on a drug that makes you retarded (state doesn't want human connections.)>All the good books like Shakespeare, Blood Merdian, everything introspective and worth your time are all locked up.>There's no longer any scientific process, any actual process is a potential danger to the state.The best thing you can do in Brave New World is just get caught and sent off to one of the islands with actual intelligent and cultured outcasts. Literally the best places in the world.
>>18427331Is this worth reading? I've read 1984 which was a good time
>>18427901If you're able to read and genuinely enjoy 1984 beyond its relevance and legacy, you're gonna love BNW, which is a much more engaging and fulfilling read
>>18427331thats the point. it isnt bad for any other reason than irrational mysterious romantic "human" reasons. which is the heart and nuance of the book. its what seperates it from propaganda. youd be happy if you were in it, but as an outsider youd never want to be in it
>>18427331Can an absolute retard who hasn't touched a book since high school be able to read this?
>>18427331of course the numale tranny thinks its paradise. praying each day for a sun burst that wipes out the worlds electrical grid forever
>>18427928The world of 1984 was a little much but I liked the way George Orwell wrote.
>>18427945>irrational mysterious romantic "human" reasonsWhat the fuck is wrong with you?
>>18427331It's not, if you're an empty gaping maw of purpose.
>>18427946yes, this is very entry-level
>>18427331>Free to do whatever you wantThis has to be bait. Read the book
I read both BNW and 1984 in sixth grade. Looking back, Huxley's view of the future was way more accurate1984: war is exported abroad to keep the state well funded and the population afraid without actually damaging the state's internal territories (US wars in the Middle East)BNW: Human social connections broken down in favor of easy to control tansient casual sex. Old age is so stigmatized most young people can't even imagine being oldThis last point especially terrifies me. So many people my age I know have no conception they will live past 30. I think Huxley's vision of the future is way more accurate than Orwell's
>>18428068It kinda depends on where you live.
>>18427355*sigh*Yeah, atheists and nihilists are totally lacking empathy and unable to imagine how other people feel...
>>18427331>soma>is literally a blue pillbased book cover artist
Leftism doesn't work and ruins everything.
>>18427901>Is this worth reading? I've read 1984 which was a good timeHuxley was Orwell's teacher at college, I think
>>18428092Yeshua bin Pantera... this comment made me sad.
>>18427331It's impossible to discuss BNW anymore on this board after the Pewdiepie invasion. This thread is a testament to why.
>>18427378>deeply unhappy man preaching about refined tastes and nobler pursuits on the website for the scum of the earthLmao, just accept the dopamine tap my guy. Once you turn it on you'll never look back
>>18427946Yeah but the wanting seed is better
>>18427775Ok, you're either a shill or a literal soulless NPC.And I'm not sure what scares me more
>>18428207>le meme warJesus christ go back lol
>>18428214Ok so a shill.What brings you to /lit/? Was /pol/ to mean for you?
>>18427695Community, Identity, Stability. Simple as.
>>18428255No. You are a number in an uncaring system, who's image of "stability" is only maintained through the forced consent of the people. Fucking Pseud, close your browser now.
>>18428084Not him, but I don’t think that’s his point. What he is trying to say is that of you have a purely materialistic worldview, a society in which all your material needs and comforts are met is not *that* bad
i always see this book more in terms of "caste" terms than "pleasure" terms. maybe its because the first chapter is all about castes and it just kind of stuck with me.
>>18428319It can be fun to think about it in terms of societies too. On some level we emulate each of their three societies in our daily lives, its just separated for them.
>>18427331It's not, it's just some cringe autist going ugh and coping with ideology.
>>18428284>you have a purely materialistic worldview>a society in which all your material needs and comforts are met is not *that* bad>materialisticIt's funny, because "materialistic" has at least two extremely different meanings, and EVERY-SINGLE-TIME someone tries to make a critique of atheism or communism (they're the same in their mind - sic) they just mix them together."IF YOU ARE A MATERIALIST IT MEANS YOU HAVE TWELVE IPHONES!""!"And they even consider this an argument. I just lose interest, you know.
>>18428482I think you confuse nihilism for communism, understandable.
>>18428482how are you a materialist lmao its the most brain dead position everyou ever heard of numbers??? lmaooo
>>18428517Point out EXACTLY where (according to you) I made this mistake.
>>18427331>>Get to have sex with anyone you wanthow?
>>18428174>dopamine>dopamine>dopamineYou people have got to stop doing this, that's not how it works.
>>18428255It's not community there are no solidified bonds and it has a high degree of overlap with the concepts expanded on in American Psycho, which furthers the point of superficially defined identity, which is the only identity that is respected. Stability is an affair by force rather than one organically derived, and as is effected by the mental subjugation of the populace. Life is made explicitly pointless, but entertaining. At that point, you may as well OD on your choice drug.
>>18427993>>18428179im not saying i think its a utopia. the thought disgusts me. but its "technically" good.
no gay sexduh
>>18427331It isn't. Only pseuds hate it.
>>18429117That's part of the subtext though, from the rational perspective it isn't actually all that bad. For lack of a better term, spiritually it is wretched.
>>18427946Yes, middle schoolers can read this book so I think you can manage just fine.
why are we born to die
>>18429587as if most people now are not spiritually wretched now.How is it worst than the world right now when you're both physically and spiritually wretched?
>>18427695>People in this thread have called it 'productive' but what productivity?It's been a while since I read it, but hadn't they pretty much perfected production / manufacture of all the societies needs?>What great goal was going on?The great goal was human happiness>What breakthroughs?Why does a society need to have breathroughs?>Creations of art, literatures, music?There is all of these things in the book. They are just manufactured by the government.>some) of human emotion and experience in the pursuit of 'perfect' blissful harmony and manufactured happiness for no purpose other than 'harmony' and 'happiness'.That's not true. People experience the full emotionally spectrum with the passion infusions and the feelies.>In this story were there space stations or attempts to colonise space? Were great athletics feats competed for or new records set - would there have been 'losers' in this world and acknowledged so?Why does any of this matter?
the only thing i find really objectionable about the society of brave new world is the eugenics based caste system. I already rage against people in higher social classes than i am. if i knew factually that they are better than me bc they were bred to be that way i would legitimately become a terrorist
>>18429019Sure it is, there's a hungry little homunculus in your nucleus accumbuens and he's a fiend for the stuff.
>>18428092What is leftism?
>>18429587litteraly the point i was making
>>18429675To live our best lives.Are you living your best life Anon?
>>18427601BNW is often contrasted with 1984 as opposing styles of dystopia but we now have an elegant blending of both. You can take your antidepressants, mood-altering hormones, smoke your weed, hook up with a similarly-medicated tinder hole once a week, turn on the news for your five minutes of hate, or get sent to prison for twenty years if you dare protest the system or defend yourself from its sanctioned criminal underclass. There niggers will slip excrement in your food and guards will shatter your eye socket with their jackboots.
>>18429754Then lets get started then
>>18429766What are you doing to live your best life, anon? Help me with some ideas. I'm stuck in the biggest longest deepest rut of my life thus far
>>18427651The problem with that vision of "utopia" is Soma cannot exist for basic biological reasons. All euphoric drugs lead to dependence and diminishing returns due to the indelible nature of neurons.The other problem is the civilization never advances as we slowly march towards the death of the Sun, but who cares about that lol.
>>18429774I asked for help. And I got it in turn. I'm building my discipline and investing into the study of literature, philosophy, the sciences, management/investment.You need to remember, that you yourself are the master of your destiny. However, that doesn't mean you can't and ask for help in reaching it.
>why is a oppressive, classist caste-system based upon torture and complacency bad?
>>18429597>middle schoolers can read this bookDoesn't it have sex and drugs. Why sre middle schoolers reading this?
>>18427331>no technological progress>easily got BTFO by ayys, space rocks or any natural disater that bigger than a fucking earthquakeSo how is this bad?
>>18427331The worst thing (for me) in this book was the complete lack of individuality.
>>18430690letting young people know that sex and drugs exist and educating them about it are good things. Children are not islands of purity to be protected.
>>18428229You still didn't answer >>18427775Which is okay, because there's no answer to that, it's actually a great outlook. You not having the mental capacity to comprehend that makes you the NPC, ironically enough
>>18429729>i would legitimately become a terroristYou actually wouldn't because you'd: 1. Lack the necessary mental faculties and 2. You'd be drugged up on soma which would keep you docile
>>18427946No, you need to start with the greek (or the sumarians if you want to do it right).
>>18427378Yes. That's 90% of the people. Internet simply allows the remaining 10% to talk among themselves.
>>18427331t. soulless bugman
>>18427378Oh brave new world! brave new world we live in!
>>18427331>Free to do whatever you wantDid you even read the book you Wellsian materialist faggot?
>>18427331It's literally not badNo one said it was bad
>>18428084that wasn't my point. my point is that for many nihilists and atheists, their sole purpose is happiness and as long as you aren't hurting someone (subjective, I know) then they're fine with an existence of hedonism. it's easier for someone with faith to fall back on their axiom and say why a life of hedonism is bad while a nihilist can't.
>>18431007>FreeIt's relative. BLow it out your ass.
>>18431059Nothing is relative, you are merely a coward. Every single thing is objective and you take the easy and wrong route out of comfort, and can't even cope with the reality of it.
>>18427331sounds boring and meaningless
>>18427331>imagine there's a world and it's like bad okay?no, this world in the book isnt real so im not gonna think about it, ok?
>>18428174Lmao, just accept the dopamine tap my guy. Once you turn it on you'll never look back
>>18428174It's called working out bro.
>>18427331I wont even read the thread but I guess /lit/ will seethe about "muh hedonism" and "you have to be celibate shut-in monkmode like me to understand Plato"
>>18431072Objectively there are millions of more worthwhile things you could be doing, so stop posting any time
>>18431554Sophism of the highest caliber. Objective is that which is true and real. Factual information, much like it is objective the best thing I have to do for fun right now is post on 4chan. And it is objective that I have fun posting on 4chan. And at least I can face the objective truth that I'm wasting my time.
>>18431072But by whose standard are we to judge what is "free". Dont forget the people in BNW were BORN into their social standing. They knew nothing else. They were "free" to fuck, entertain and party like animals, which no one, but a select few, seemed to have a problem with. To us that is horrible, but to them it was completely normal and sometimes preferred (See: Linda). I'd like to remind you that our (the West's) conception of freedom is , arguably, someone else's slavery.
>>18428068based infographic plagiarizer
>>18431830"Objectively" the characters in BNW might consider themselves free.
>>18429732leftism is when intelligent people with low self-esteem use a broadcast of impossible promises as a rope to wrangle the lowest of the low up into a writhing mass, with which they attempt to threaten powerful people whose command they feel entitled to, but have never had the self-worth to acquire.see: priests promising heaven, communists promising worker ownership, etc
>>18432116"might consider themselves" is already subjective
>>18429743Im living my best lifeI ain’t going back and forth with you niggas
>>18432021>our (the West's) conception of freedom is , arguably, someone else's slavery.That is also Sophism, just the neuroses and paranoias of some being triggered, their individual sensibilities, cognitive biases, internalized traumas and obsessions causing them to have opinions on other people's free capacity to choose to do X, Y or Z. The people in BNW are objectively not free, as every aspect of their lives is controlled by a centralized government, they are made to live in certain castes, behave in certain ways, are not allowed to feel or write or create certain things. The very conflict of the novel is the ideological battle between pleasure and comfort against uncomfortable freedom.
>>18427891Sounds fair, would you rather be an "intelectual" amongst the masses or amongst people of your spirit?
>>18432302Did you not pay attention to what was wrong with those masses?Unless you mean to try to persuade them, its better to leave.
>>18432372Right, so it's like the real world except there's no island to escape to.
Were they Happy? If they were, then it's not bad.
>>18433856John Stuart Mill's hands wrote this post.
>>18427331You don't even have the freedom to not rut like an animal. That's the point there is NO freedom. You live like cattle and if you resisted they'd kill you. They retard your development to keep you stupid. They even dictate your dreams. Why would you want to live in such a horrible reality where no one is allowed to be anything but a hedonist. It's true slavery disguised as freedom. You aren't "getting" to have sex and do drugs they're actually pushed on you and God help you if you don't want to rut and get high. The main character is a guy coming into this society that wasn't brainwashed and look how he was treated.