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How
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transition
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>>18426222
Copious amounts of psychedelics.
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>>18426222
checked
try introspection and to see yourself in an almost objective manner
or maybe this >>18426255
also checked
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>>18426222
Just be yourself
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>>18426222
use a mirror
duh
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>>18426222
Spend time with yourself as much as you can without any distractions. If there are distractions then try to stay as lucid as you can.
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Calipers
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Dialog and journaling
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ask questions
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>>18426222
To every answer, a question.
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>>18426222
trauma healing
transformation mastery
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hard bone pressing
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>>18426222
Chronic masturbation and simulated social interaction in anonymity
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>>18426222
wasn't that Thales who said this?
>>18426228
YWNBAW
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>>18426887
It was just a popular maxim in ancient greece
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>>18426255
Is this really true?
On one hand I'm extremely intrigued by the psychedelic experience and especially by the commonly reported impression that the "places" visited under their influence are more real than this reality.
On the other hand religions seem to discourage their use and the beings you encounter while on DMT for example seem demonic or at least not always benevolent. Also genuine mystical experiences are allegedly completely different from substance-induced experiences.

I wish I could have a definitive answer to this from someone who knows what they're talking about and isn't just out to sell me something.
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>>18426988
All the greatest minds shunned psychadelics.
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>>18427013
For what reason?
Take a look at the pics I posted and tell me there isn't something interesting there at the very least. How does this not fill you with the desire to know more about what these experiences might be?
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>>18426222
>know thy Self*
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>>18426222
Isolation without decadence
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>>18426222
read Sri Shankaracharya (pbuh)
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>>18427013

>All the greatest minds shunned psychadelics.

Retard alert. Psychedelics didn't enter into the public sphere until the 50s where they were considered fascinating and with great potential. Before then there are numerous accounts of psychedelics used in religious practices and shaman-types.
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>>18427112
Huxley was a spook though.
But I'd be curious to know what the Greeks or the Christian mystics would've thought about psychs.
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>>18426988

>Is this really true?

Yes and no. Taking any kind of psychedelic with the express purpose of looking beyond the pale is only going send you away humbled. I always describe LSD/DMT/Shrooms to people who want to take them for 'spiritual' reasons like the dark cave sequence Luke enters in Empire Strikes Back.

>What's in there?
>Only what you take with you.

Psychedelics are much the same.
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>>18427154

Wanna know how I know you're talking out your ass?
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>>18427170
It's a well-known fact that Huxley was involved with CIA programs/operatives, just google it before outing yourself as a confrontational Rogan-tier dumbfuck.
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>>18427112
>>18427170
Wanna know how I know you're a redditor?
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>>18427160
>with the express purpose of looking beyond the pale
My only purpose is to attempt to understand the nature of existence and my place in it. I'm interested mostly in DMT because the people who take it almost unanimously say that it's like waking up from a dream into the real world, and I want to understand what that means and if it ties into any specific mystical/occult practices and metaphysical models that are non-psychedelic in nature.
>>Only what you take with you
So you're a partisan of the idea according to which what you see on psychedelics is a mere reflection of the unconscious? But then why the impression of contacting different sentient beings and being in an actual, real place?
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>>18426988
>he doesn't know
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>>18427219
I'm aware of this theory but it doesn't really tell me anything in itself, it just raises more questions. What is the psychedelic experience? What are the beings you meet and the worlds you visit? How are they linked to religious traditions?
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>>18427219
That's meant to be a tree dumbass.
Look at the snake's mouth, It's holding up the fruit to Eve
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>>18426887
It was etched on a wall at Delphi.
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>>18426887
It was a Delphic priestess. Been repeated by many, such as Diotima and Socrates.
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>>18427218
I've never seen cartoon shapes when on dmt, I've only seen realistic hallucinations. What's the deal?
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>>18427288
I have no idea, I've never taken DMT. What were your experiences like?
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>>18427224
well, i don't fucking know, i made that reply because tou said that "religions seem to discourage their use" and i wanted to point out that wasn't (at least i believe it wasn't) always the case. now, what does the 'sudden' reversal on how religion treats psychedelics means, i don't know, could be a way of maintaining control, if someone has never experienced the divine first hand (unlike experiencing the divine through a medium, like a priest or something) it's much easier to shape what they believe into something else
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>>18427218
>My only purpose is to attempt to understand the nature of existence and my place in it.

This is exactly what looking beyond the pale means and you're almost certainly going get caught up in a loop if you go into a trip with the preconceived notions of drugs being the key to 'pulling back the curtain' or anything like that.

>So you're a partisan of the idea according to which what you see on psychedelics is a mere reflection of the unconscious?

Again, yes and no. There's more to it than that. The conscious, subconscious, and unconscious all play a part - and they don't. There's more to it than that. If I /had/ to give a name to my outlook, it's closer to non-duality. Hopefully, after a good trip, those sort of distinctions are dissolved for you.
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>>18427300
That's a good point, but some people will say that the "divine" you experience on psychedelics is different from the divine you experience from a true religious revelation (mysticism etc) which suggests that there's a difference nonetheless. And that's not getting into the possibilities that the entities might not have our best interests at heart.
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>>18427252
sure man, believe what you want
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>>18427024
Ive done a bunch of mushrooms and LSD along with some other psychs and stuff like ketamine. There is no true mystic experience with them and you only get to know one thing about yourself on drugs, and thats the knowledge of how you react to taking drugs. They are fun, they can blow your mind in a superficial way, but they hold no value beyond that.
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>>18427329
Have you had a true mystical experience? How would you describe the difference?
>they can blow your mind in a superficial way
What is superficial about the feeling of having literally broken through reality; is there something even stronger than this?
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>>18427312
>caught up in a loop
What, you mean a bad trip? Should I let go of all my expectations about getting answers and just smoke DMT simply expecting a fun and interesting time?
>non-duality
Meaning it's not a part of myself but at the same time it is because there's no distinction between the real world, Maya, or the inner world? As above so below and whatnot?
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You can only know yourself in relation to others
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>>18427325
i'd agree with you if it weren't pretty much proven that some religions used psychedelics very early on, jews were burning bush literally thousands of years ago, if you know what i mean
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>>18427365
>some religions used psychedelics very early on
Yes but under the guidance of shamanic authorities and religious leaders. Doesn't mean it's a good idea to explore these realms by yourself with no protection at all.
If you have the time, read this thread: https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=62070
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>>18427365
oh and on the point that dmt entities may not have our best interests at heart, first of, i'm not sure dmt entities are "real" (whatever that means), and secondly, yes, i am fully aware of the possibility they're evil, demons, whatever, i just don't think that's the most likely explanation, could be though
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>>18427345
A mystical experience sticks with you, or it does in my opinion. It comes from prayer and meditation. When you know the experience you are having is the result of a chemical you took, it has less of a lasting impact. But experiencing something mystical through meditation.. to put it simply when the experience is through you are left with the fact that you just had a hallucinatory experience without the use of a drug. Im having a hard time putting it eloquently but it just hits different, its like seeing a ghost perfectly sober in the day time with the lights on. Its a woah moment with substance.
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>>18427328
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>>18427409
>i'm not sure dmt entities are "real" (whatever that means)
You mean you don't think they have independent reality?
What I find unconvincing about this is stuff like pic rel, if there's one thing people can agree with about DMT is that it makes you feel the same way about reality than you feel about dreams when you wake up from them. Pure reality.
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>>18427384
damn that's a pretty interesting looking site, will definitely have a look. admittedly i'm not that much of a hippie, i haven't tried any psychedelics except mushrooms, which i think are the most chill
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>>18427423
So it feels different because the means to access the experience were different; but in terms of sensory and psychological impressions, is it for all intents and purposes the same thing as a "trip", or is the substance of the mystical experience different? Not sure if I'm being clear here.
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>>18427359

Penultimately, my position boils to down to - you shouldn't do drugs - but do as thou wilt. Anyone who is serious about their drugs will probably tell you they're anti-drugs. But even a bad trip will probably teach you something, and a fool who persists in his folly becomes wise.

Have fun with it anon.
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>>18427450
I see. Honestly I'll probably do DMT and/or shrooms at least once because I'm just too curious and I need to experience the dissolving of reality, but I'm also cautious so it shouldn't become a problem.
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>>18426255
You simply can't truly know yourself through psychedelics.
Thinking they help in anyway is to reduce the Self (and spirituality if you believe in that)to mere chemical processes in the brain which are modified by the consumption of these substances.
For me, nothing merely material is going to help you with self knowledge. Simply using things to "elevate yourself" in anyway is a false pursuit and you will be fooling yourself because you will always be bound in the material world by the drug, chained to the earth as you pretend to achieve a higher state of being.
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>>18427430
i may not be smart enough to have a say on this, but i don't think "independent reality" is the best way to put it, beacuse to me, if dmt entities were caused purely by some unknown process acting withing the brain, they could still be called "real", but eeehhhhh this is where i start struggling
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>>18427218
The main philosophical insights I took from psychedelic ego death experiences were close to those of e.g. Kant, Schopenhauer or Nietszche, i.e. the phenomenal world is an illusion, the order you see in reality is that of your own perception and cognition, existence itself is something our mind is not constituted to understand, etc. Probably quite similar to reaching enlightenment via meditation

You may have an "awakening" type experience, but ultimately it will be personal and not something you can convey to others with words.
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>>18427443
More or less yeah, there are differences but I havent had nearly as many "mystical" experiences sober as when on whatever drug. when I achieved ego death on mushrooms it felt similar to a meditation experience I had, easily the best one. You can listen to people much more experienced in meditation however compare their experiences to psychadelics and often times they are quite similar, you dont have to take my word for it just hit up youtube or some literature on the subject.
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>>18427496
>the phenomenal world is an illusion, the order you see in reality is that of your own perception and cognition, existence itself is something our mind is not constituted to understand
Yeah this sounds very much like the eastern kind of spiritual realization and quite opposed to the more realist views of western religion but I could be wrong about this. Interesting though.
>>18427534
Well I know ego death is a recurring theme, I was more curious about the visuals or the possible encounters during mystical experiences but sure I'll check out what people have to say on the subject.
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>>18427598
You should try ketamine, do enough so that you "k-hole" .
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>>18427659
It's really hard to get your hands on ketamine. DMT is easy to make and shrooms are plentiful where I live on the other hand.
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aee
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>>18426222
As Adam knew Eve heheh
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>>18427598
Yeah this sounds very much like the eastern kind of spiritual realization and quite opposed to the more realist views of western religion but I could be wrong about this. Interesting though.

Yes it will shatter any naïve realism you might have. A big thing it revealed to me is that the world you perceive is a unity and the observer is central; that is, everything you experience is ultimately just an expression of your own nature.
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>>18427665
Dark web, but other psychs are fun too.
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It's important to remember for the Greeks knowing yourself wasn't some introspective navel gazing but more that you'd find yourself reflected in your acts and creations.
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>>18426222
Be yourself. Stop trying so hard. Be alone most of the time. Maintain freedom at all costs
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>>18428974
>introspective navel gazing
Is your self located in your belly button or something?
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>>18427218
Check out This is It by Alan Watts. The last essay in it is pretty much all about his experiences taking acid for research and how it related to his Zen mysticism. Rest of the book is a good read too imo, but I'm no expert on Taoism or any shit like that.
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bump
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>>18427783
>naïve realism
Plato was naive?
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>>18427037
>>18427092
Literally this. 'Philosophy' isn't the same thing as it is perceived to be today. It was an extension of various mystery cults' teachings, like the Pythagoreans and that of Eleusis. It wasn't about 'creating' narcissistic little 'systems of thought' (from what? and where?) that satisfy the noveltybrain's retard itch. It was about pursuing the absolute Truth of the Good itself.

Almost all of Plato's dialogues point toward the divine nature of the Soul and its immutability in a world of ceaseless flux and decaying matter. The true Self is not any attachment of the world. Read Plato and his successors ala Plotinus with a mind to this to fully understand 'the Self' from a sacred Western expression. The dialogues are not lol so randumb thought experiments to 'make u thingk', they all have a purpose.
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>>18430929
I'd read the enneads but I can only find a shitty penguin abridged version
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>>18426222
Put yourself in hard situations, physical and mental situations.



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