Your friend is being imprisoned, he's to spend the next few years of his life in the isolation of solitary confinement. He asks you to select for him three books to read, these will be the only books he is allowed to read. Which books do you choose and why?My picks>Crime and Punishment by Fyodor Dostoevsky >What is zen? by Alan Watts>The Myth of Sisyphus by Albert Camu
I tell him to make up his own mind
>>17974945KJV BibleComplete ShakespeareThe Very Hungry Caterpillar
>>17974960No he can't, for whatever reason, defeats the purpose of the hypothetical, only you can choose the books.
>>17974979>The Very Hungry Caterpillarbased
>>17974945>>17975048>Solitary Fitness>Shakespeare>KJV with concordance & apocrypha
>>17975048I said THREEhttps://youtu.be/saaKnLX_qHU
Is ISOLT cheating? If so, I'd want the complete Borges, the complete poems of W.H. Auden, and War and Peace. I would not take any philosophy or non-fiction, as I think the human touch of literature would be essential and should be maximised.
>>17975100>I would not take any philosophy or non-fiction, as I think the human touch of literature would be essential and should be maximised.Sure but that literature can only go so far, eventually you're going to need some philosophy or religion. Practicing prayer and meditation would come in handy too.
>>17974945>Crime and PunishmentYou don't really like this friend do you?
>>17974979>KJV Bible>>17975085>>KJV with concordance & apocryphahttps://youtu.be/iPtC9r4FIx4
>>17974979>>17975085Don't want to start a new thread; can anyone recc a particular edition for the complete works of Shakespeare?
>>17975132I have the RSC one which is pretty decent, I'm sure there are better editions though>>17975131probably the most important scene in the film now I think about it
>>17975126What's wrong with Crime and Punishment?
>>17975164Nothing. Just giving this book to friend in jail sounds cruel.
>>17975172Hahaha maybeI think that I would like that book to keep me company in a cell, especially if I had done something to warrant me being there, because it'd give me a lot to ruminate on. Which is what I suppose you'd want, which is to occupy your mind if you had to spend some much time alone. Crime and Punishment would help me piece together my thoughts.
>Cambridge KJV reference Bible with Apocrypha>Meditations>Moby DickA man can live off that chapter about chowder
>>17974945BibleA history book about the worldInvincible memory
>>17975228>A history book about the worldBest history book I've ever read
>>17974945Infinite JestWar and PeaceThe collected Tao
>>17974945probably 3 textbooks all mathematics
>>17975306>probably 3 textbooks all mathematicsWrong board anon, this is /lit/You belong here with the other nerds >>>/sci/
>>17974945>Hemingway Short Story Collection >Chekhov Short Story Collection>some omnibus of a writer’s major worksI would want to have a good number of choices
>>17975323>can only name 2, those being arguably the most notable short story writersjeez anon, maybe you should read a bit more
>>17975339I’ve been reading for ~10 years.
>>17975345>I’ve been reading for ~10 years.What age are you 15?
>>17974945>Some massive poetry book with Walt Whitman and other greats>Tao Te Ching>In Search of Lost Time fuck you if it doesnt count
>>17975349Probably older than you. I don’t read for approval so if you don’t believe me, it’s whatever. Imagine getting this mad over a lit post.lol
>>17975471i need to read this
>>17975476>i need to read thisSo read it my man
>>17975132I have the Norton Shakespeare and it's pretty good.
>>17974945You would need to find a special publisher that makes single-volume editions of books usually published in several volumes. Then you could bring things like the entire Mahābhārata, the entire Sutta Pitaka of the Pali canon, or complete In Search of Lost Time
EnchiridionIn Search Of Lost TimeAnna Karenina
>>17975884>In Search Of Lost TimePeople keep mentioning this book, and I haven't yet read it. What makes it so important?
>>17975317That image is incredibly retarded lmao
>>17975954Just because you're interested in mathematics does not mean your appreciation of literature and other artforms are nuked, and intellectual analysis of a work of a (good) work of art will never make it worse. Though the "a=1" thing in the image is something that no one has ever done outside the head of the person who made that image lmao
>>17975306If you were my friend, I would have to go back to prison for murder once I got out.
>>17975997>Just because you're interested in mathematics does not mean your appreciation of literature and other artforms are nukedI believe that a cold and detached view of art, takes away from the art. Art is intuitive and emotional not rational, art is not a science.>and intellectual analysis of a work of a (good) work of art will never make it worse.It reveals the trick, its like when you find out how an optical illusion or magic trick works, you can never really see the illusion or the magic trick the same way again, as you now know the details.>Though the "a=1" thing in the image is something that no one has ever done outside the head of the person who made that image lmaoIt's just to illustrate the point, that fags like Richard Dawkins push, that everything can be quantified.[...] Do not all charms flyAt the mere touch of cold philosophy?There was an awful rainbow once in heaven:We know her woof, her texture; she is givenIn the dull catalogue of common things.Philosophy will clip an Angel's wings,Conquer all mysteries by rule and line,Empty the haunted air, and gnomed mine—Unweave a rainbow, as it erewhile madeThe tender-person'd Lamia melt into a shade
>>17976110>It's just to illustrate the point, that fags like Richard Dawkins push, that everything can be quantified.*THAT not everything can be quantified, and to attempt to quantify everything takes away from human experience.
>>17976110>Art is intuitive and emotional not rational, art is not a scienceIt is not a science but it definitely is not irrational, nor only intuitive or emotional, proven by yourself by quoting a poem to prove your point. If it was merely intuitive and emotional, your poem would have only served to transmit an emotion, but as it turns out the main IDEA of the poem (ironically enough) is that philosophy detracts from art. The communication of this idea would be impossible without the rational relation of ideas exhibited in the poem, and pretending that the poem would be worse just because you have taken the time to rationally understand its contents (as opposed to the feelings the words on the page ellicit in you without further analysis of what they MEAN beyond that) is just wasting your time and missing the whole point.>It reveals the trick, its like when you find out how an optical illusion or magic trick works, you can never really see the illusion or the magic trick the same way again, as you now know the details.That is true if you believe that art is just merely for show and incapable of saying anything of value, which in my estimation a shallow view of art. If you beleive rational analysis detracts from a work of art, so be it, but doing so is reducing a literary work to just showmanship when I can assure you that behind every great work of art is a solid rational foundation of concepts that can and should be analyzed by everyone who has a genuine interest in what they, to put it in words you'd understand, "consuming".
>>17974945>Your friend is being imprisonedThinking about it, I should of just put you instead of friend. The reasoning behind putting friend is, if you've already read a particular book than you may not feel the need to read it again, whereas assuming your friend had not read that book it may be of use to him. But if you haven't read a book than how can you with any certainty bet on it being worthy of selecting. Especially if you're condemned to only three. Also the selection of books, are the books utility is completely dependent upon you idiosyncratic tastes and own personal philosophy. So that which you find helpful and consoling you're friend might rather use as toilet paper.
>>17976304>rationally understand its contentsThe rationale of the poem, is a language game, and its purpose it simply to convey an EMOTION. Not some solution to a mathematical equation, an equation has little to none emotive power.>and incapable of saying anything of valueThe "show" is valuable. Beauty is valuable in it of itself. I don't need some rationale to explain that fact to me.> work of art is a solid rational foundation of concepts that can and should be analyzed by everyone who has a genuine interest in what theyYou are like a dog, that when its master tries to direct it to something in the distance with his finger, you can't help but get caught up with staring at his finger in confusion. You are hung up with the tools used for direction rather than that which you are being directed towards. > to put it in words you'd understand, "consuming"Art is not consumption, it is an experience, to be felt, not analysed.
>Infinite JestThe book is a puzzle in itself, which would keep him entertainment for ages. Also, the part on Ennet's house would help him cope. >The meditationsThe only self-help book a man needs. I'd change it for the bible if he is christian tho.>Complete ShakespeareBut if this one is cheating, I'd say:>The Lord of The RingsIt's inspiring and it would stimulate his imagination.
>>17976425I considered LOTR too but opted for Moby Dick. If I'm going to be locked away in a tiny room for years, I want to at least have memories of pleasant things to draw from, like the smell of the ocean or wind through trees. Or the chowder. Man do I love the chowder.
>>17976394>The rationale of the poem, is a language game, and its purpose it simply to convey an EMOTIONSo the words of the poem are merely incidental and secondary? Can you name the emotion? And why is the emotion valuable when myriad of ither things can produce emotions in you? It seems very cocincidental to me that you used a poem, that on your own terms is only as valuable as its efficacy in elliciting emotions, to prove a rational point.>Beauty is valuable in it of itself. I don't need some rationale to explain that fact to me.I am not denying that, but completely ignoring the rational aspect of literature, then Shakespeare and a barcode and a McDonald's ad are EXACTLY THE SAME value as long as they ellicit an emotion in the reader/consumer (And who's to say that the feeling that an educated man gets when reading Hamlet is in any way inferior to the feeling an obese man gets when he craves a mcgriddle after seeing a McDonald's ad, or a shopping addict's dopamine rush when he browses through amazon?)>You are like a dog, that when its master tries to direct it to something in the distance with his finger, you can't help but get caught up with staring at his finger in confusion. You are hung up with the tools used for direction rather than that which you are being directed towards.That is only if you think that the ideas of a work is completely divorced from it's form, which is completely retarded. But it's not like you'd notice if you never go out of your way to find out why something is written that way, deeper than just "It sounds nice"I am pretty sure this is bait but whatever[\spoiler]
>>17976530>If I'm going to be locked away in a tiny room for years, I want to at least have memories of pleasant things to draw from, like the smell of the ocean or wind through trees.Reading from Albert Camus The Stranger pg 94"After a while however i'd learned the trick of remembering things, i never had a moments boredom. Sometimes I would exercise my memory on my bedroom... So I learned that even after a single day's experience of the outside world a man could easily live a hundred years in prison. He'd have laid up enough memories never to be bored. Obviously, in one way, this was a compensation."The virgin cope vs the chad compensation.Thinking, the whole point of this hypothetical >>17974945is to show how one would deal with pure silence. Solitary is to deprive a man of worthwhile experience, so all that remains is the mind and memories, your imagination. But then in the end, you have death to contend with, and your choices, the life that you lived. I think I might make another thread later when this one starts to die, on books one should read before your execution.
>>17976603>So the words of the poem are merely incidental and secondary?The words and rationale are tools required to convey the emotion. > then Shakespeare and a barcode and a McDonald's adWhat separates Shakespeare and a barcode is the intentions behind them. Art can be found in everything, from the right perspective. Art is the expression of ones worldview, through arts emotive power, it reveals to ourselves, purpose and meaning, that which is transcendental. >as long as they ellicit an emotion in the reader/consumerSome art requires more skill than other art, intentions behind that which is being created it to important in determining whether or not it is art, or high quality art.>And who's to say that the feeling that an educated man gets when reading Hamlet is in any way inferior to the feeling an obese man gets when he craves a mcgriddle after seeing a McDonald's adI suppose there is a degree of subjectivity, but I think you'd have to be insane or clinically retarded to be as moved by a barcode as Hamlet.>But it's not like you'd notice if you never go out of your way to find out why something is written that way, deeper than just "It sounds nice"Its form, is an art in it of its self.>I am pretty sure this is bait but whateverNah, just devils advocate, I see where you are coming from though.What do you think art is?
>>17976734>Art is the expression of ones worldview, through arts emotive power, it reveals to ourselves, purpose and meaning, that which is transcendental.And why is emotion superior to ratinality in expressing meaning and worldview (philosophy)?>I suppose there is a degree of subjectivity, but I think you'd have to be insane or clinically retarded to be as moved by a barcode as Hamlet.Say, you were sleep deprived one day and decided to read Hamlet and the experience proved tedious, unintelligible and overall bad. The next day you slept well, and you cracked open your copy of 101 Hamburger Jokes and you chuckled at least once and it made a better impression on you than Hamlet. By your theory 101 Hamburger Jokes is better than Hamlet regardless what the book says, because the ideas presented in the book are completely irrelevant if they failed to make an emotional impression on you.It is more than just "a degree of subjectivity".>What do you think art is?For literature: The rational and aesthetic expression of human thought in the written form through fiction.
>>17976947>And why is emotion superior to ratinality in expressing meaning and worldview (philosophy)?What is the purpose of rationality? To discover the truth? What is truth? See picture>It is more than just "a degree of subjectivity".Art is subjective, but we can state that it takes far more creative and artistic skill to create the works of Shakespeare than some burger joke, we don't solely define art on what it elicits, but by what it sets out to elicit and as to whether or not it achieves this. This is what what separates quality art from poor art.>The rational...Why does the rational part matter so much to you? Again whats the purpose of rationality?
>>17977077>To discover the truth? What is truth? See pictureForgot to attach
>>179749451. The Bible2. The Arabian Nights (complete) 3. some book about nature or something
>>17977077>Again whats the purpose of rationality?The relation of ideas with each other, which can endure beyond the lifespan of any intended (or unintended) feeling the work can effect on the reader. What Homer wanted the reader to feel (if he had a particular feeling in mind even) is impossible to verify, since we cannot live in greece thousands of years ago, nor do we know the exact psychological makeup of the greek reader on that age, but we can understand the set of ideas and statements the Odyssey uses and produces based on anthropological knowledge.The contemporary reader may be puzzled at old epics, emotionally, because nowadays the idea of honor is so foreign actions may seem retarded, and if we take emotion to be the primary value of a work of art then the work of art turns more worthless the more the cultural context on which the work was written erodes, BUT if we take the work's value to rest on its rational ideas which we CAN analyze at any point in time (aided by anthropological and historical records of the context of the work), you can always, at any point in time, consider the work in the terms of its concepts and ideas.Basically: ideas are timeless, emotion is subject to anything from a good night's sleep to your hormones.And even then, if you cannot rationally understand something, your emotions are not corresponding to the work.You cannot claim a work on a foreign language is of value or not if you cannot understand it. You cannot say if a sentence is accurate if you ignore the meaning of half of its word. You cannot also say that a poem is good if you cannot explain the ideas it exposes. At that point you are just responding at an emotional state produced by something which is not even the work itself.So even if you hold emotion as paramount, the rational analysis of the work itself is necessary to be able to begin considering the feelings it aroused in you. And that is if you are in the same wavelength as the author was, which is unlikely if it was written more than five or ten years ago. So in any case appreciation of a work of art is incomplete without any rational (critical would be a better word desu) examination of it beforehand.
>>17975048Genuine question is this good?
>>17974945BibleDivine ComedySumma Theologica
Ulysses, Infinite Jest, Gravity's Rainbow
>>17974945>Solitary Fitness by Bronson>Montaigne's Essays>Complete Shakespeare
>>17974945there are no books allowed
>>17977316>but we can understand the set of ideas and statements the Odyssey uses and produces based on anthropological knowledge.Yes, but why should one care for these connected ideas? Why should I care for the contents of the Odyssey? I care for its emotive power, I don't just analyse for the sake of analysis. What is the point to that?>consider the work in the terms of its concepts and ideas.Why should I care? So you say emotions can't be analysed, nor Homers intentions in what he wanted to elicit in the reader, in terms of emotions. That only rational ideas and concepts can be analysed objectively. First the line between emotion and that which is empirical are harder to draw that it may seem.Emotion is not the best word to use, it is better to say perspective, but perspective is not entirely abstract, abstraction is the realm of numbers and concepts. Whereas perception is the realm of emotion and instinct.>Basically: ideas are timeless, emotion is subject to anything from a good night's sleep to your hormones.All we are, is our perspective, and this is subject to all the factors that effect life, not just sleep, but the whole contents of our existence. To dismiss emotion, perspective and instinct is to dismiss reality itself. All ideas are, are our abstractions, these are airy fairy, and devoid of value, unless they effect our perspectives, which is why we think, why we care for abstraction or "truth".>Basically: ideas are timelessThe only reason you believe they are timeless is because ideas summon emotion within you, and alter your perspective. Its that which gives ideas and rationality there value to you. But it is not the idea that is important, in it of itself. Its what the idea represents, and that is the intention of any writer, no matter if what is written is from ancient Greece or the present day, the writer is trying to get you to think his thoughts. Which is what we do through the act of reading, to think anothers thoughts. Why? To see things from that writers perspective. Why? To feel the emotions, the beauty, and to most importantly understand the writers, philosophy. That philosophy is not just a matter of the abstract, to be solved as one would an equation, but of the human soul, and that cannot be quantified, only directed towards through the tool that is language, and the concept (which is all it is) of truth. See pic >>17977082Now I'm not dismissing the utility of truth and rationality as a tool. I'm just pointing out that, that is what they are, tools.1/2
>>17977465>Montaigne's Essaysvery good choice.
>>17974945>ethiopian orthodox bible most content of any bible>the sayings of the desert fathersthey lived in isolation for most of their lives, hopefully it'll make the sentence seem easier>1001 arabian nightsgood stories, plus the unabridged burton translation is long for rereadabilityI was half tempted to say a journal, but I'm not sure if the effects of being stuck with your own thoughts would be diminished or amplified by journaling
>>17977528>All ideas are, are our abstractions, these are airy fairy, and devoid of value, unless they effect our perspectivesTo expand on this. I say abstractions are airy fairy, because they are just one aspect to existence and art, to focus upon that which is rational is to forget to take what is required in philosophy and art, which is a holistic perspective. >You cannot claim a work on a foreign language is of value or not if you cannot understand it. You cannot say if a sentence is accurate if you ignore the meaning of half of its word. You cannot also say that a poem is good if you cannot explain the ideas it exposes. At that point you are just responding at an emotional state produced by something which is not even the work itself.Without understanding a work, it would have no emotive power, it is through understanding that we are moved, because it is understanding, that changes our perspective, which moves us.>So even if you hold emotion as paramountEmotion and the changing of perceptive, is the intention behind all art, philosophy and works of literature. Which is why we use rationality and conceptualization to help convey our perspective, art is showing others, our view of the world. >the rational analysis of the work itself is necessary to be able to begin considering the feelings it aroused in you.I didn't say that it wasn't.>which is unlikely if it was written more than five or ten years ago.Are any of us? With any piece of writing? We all have our own idiosyncratic perspectives, because we all occupy our own existences, no one can ever truly reach another wavelength. >is incomplete without any rational (critical would be a better word desu) examination of it beforehand."Appreciation of a work of art is incomplete without out a rational examination". Yes I believe a rational examination is important to fully squeeze out the juices, so as to get to the core of what is being written, and get as close as humanly possible to the writers "wavelength", but we do so FOR its emotive powers. Which you reuse to admit. 2/2
>>17977465>Solitary Fitness by BronsonWhy do you care so much about being fit in a cell? It makes sense for Bronson because he liked fucking people up, but if I'm in prison I see no need to constantly be kicking peoples heads in and getting my head kicked in.
>>17975132The Norton Shakespeare is good (expensive though) especially if you want a scholarly approach to the texts
Shakespeare's Complete Works, In Search of Lost Time and Jorge Luis Borges: Complete Stories. You could read and re-read these for years.
>>17978213>Jorge Luis Borges: Complete Storiesthis would not be good for your long term sanity, but I support it
>>17977667>>17977528>Which is what we do through the act of reading, to think anothers thoughtsSo you're not even disagreeing that the transmission of ideas is fundamentally the point of writing, but merely stretching the definition of emotion so thin that it encompasses almost everything and ig turns meaningless
>>17978745>stretching the definition of emotion so thin that it encompasses almost everything and ig turns meaninglessI wouldn't say that I'm stretching the definition, just pointing out what emotion really is, and what the purpose of art and literature really is.
>>17978772Just because someone has an emotion at any given time and that something may cause emotion does not mean it's whole purpose is an emotion
Is Solitary Fitness actually any good?>>17977683If you're not fit you'll get buttraped
the complete works of the westorn canon
>>17979163in three volumes
>>17974945Complete Montaigne Collected Poems of Wallace Stevens The Odyssey
>>17975290Only history book you need
>>17975471>Even an emperor can be a cucktard
>>17974945>KJV Bible>In Search of Lost Time>Complete ShakespeareUnder 1000 pages is a more intersection question imo>The Brothers Karamazov>Moby Dick>The Iliad + The Odyssey
>>17979100>If you're not fit you'll get buttrapedBronson spends all his time, 23hr a day, alone, in a cage (at least he used to for a long time). No one is butt raping him.
>>17979365>The Brothers KaramazovWas torn between The Brothers Karamazov & Crime and Punishment. Thought Crime and Punishment would be more fitting.
>>17978939>that something may cause emotion does not mean it's whole purpose is an emotionThan whats the purpose of art if not to bring out emotion? Whats the point of aesthetically expressing yourself?
>>17979440You're not Bronson
>>17979595But I am butt raping
>>17974945>years in solitaryI don't think even amerifats do this, honestly. It would be better to say someone is going to self-isolate for an extended period for some kind of spiritual journey.
>>17979480To communicate ideas nigga
>>17980323>niggaebonicsposters deserve death
>>17980339BruhFine, "To communicate ideas nigger"
can some one of teeou (thats my way of writing "you") help me find this book? uwu pls
>>17980429Be my bf anon
>>17975306Springer publishing'sHANDBOOK OF MATHEMATICS AND COMPUTATIONAL SCIENCEis a very good choice, indeed. But I'd add an engineering book instead of another math book. The third book would have to be A CANTICLE FOR LEIBOWITZ methinks.
That sucks OP, do you have a friend that's in the situation? I'm sorry
>>17980429What the fuck is wrong with you
The BibleSome long book with a lot of sex that is somehow written for straight menSomething long with a lot of violence, preferably fantasy (I can't think of anything I like that I or the author have finished)
>>17975132As far as reference books go...this one is pretty great.
>>17974945The Middle Pillar by Israel RegardieAtlas Shrugged by Ayn RandThe Portable Jung
>>17980383Which ideas are worth communicating and why?
Are you allowed to read in solitary? I thought the whole point was to torture you through boredom
notes from undergroundsiddharthaany of celinés pamphlets so he knows who to complain about once he's released
>>17981471im a provocadorr>>17980739maede me blush... uwu
>>17975926>>17982956this image was made to piss you off, dumb cunt comp sci majors. your degree is made to prep you for base level programming wage slavery
>>17974945The Bible, the Philokalia, and the Way of a Pilgrim.
Spinoza's EthicsMoby DickThe Poetics of Space
>>17984728>Are you allowed to read in solitary?I doubt it, in this hypothetical you are, they gave this dude a ball.https://youtu.be/wRO9BHbF9GA
>>17985379lol i have a job and you dont
>>17974945Crime and Punishment by Fyodor DostoevskyThe King James Bible by GodComplete Works by Shakespeare