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What do we think of David Irving? Do you agree with the judge's verdict?
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Got what he deserved
What a fucking retard
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>>17277442
Is Hitler made into this balloney Villian? Yes, he gets no real assessment from Historians

Was Hitler the good guy? Nope...far from it. Mr Irving take a seat and don't be such a passionate Faggot.
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Revisionism is a much bigger rabbit hole, check out Faurisson.
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>>17277567
Isn't Irving a revisionist? I mean the trial was basically about whether there were gas chambers in Auschwitz or not, and, if there were, did David Irving knowingly lie by saying there were not.
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he is what happens when you let wehrabooism go untreated until it becomes terminal
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>>17277596
Irving is an interesting chap. I don't believe he knowingly falsified anything, I think he genuinely gets high off his own supply.
The impression I get is that he got caught up in a series of politically charged lawsuits predicated on an established dialectic, and instead of trying to remain level headed, he fell for it hook line and sinker and too readily adopted the losing position within that dialectic. Being challenged for his inquiry and the manner in which he played devils advocate against the orthodox historical narrative, caused him to dig his heels in and take positions that he really ought to have known were not tenable.
As far as I'm aware, when he was researching for his book on Himmler, the source material he accessed gave him reason to reconsider his revisionist position on the Holocaust, at least in part. He saw culpability on Himmler's part, but as far as I'm aware, still believes that Himmler and his subordinates acted beneath Hitler's knowledge, subverted Hitler's leadership, and that ultimately the buck stops with Himmler for any mass murder of Jews.
Irving remains unwavering in trying to absolve Hitler, specifically, of culpability. But let's say Hitler neither ordered, nor knew of, the mass murder of Jews or other prisoners. That still doesn't absolve Hitler, Goebbels, Streicher et all of responsibility when they created and fostered a political climate in which the Jews were so villianised that someone like Himmler felt justified in what he did.
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>>17277490
this
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>>17277596
>there were huge gas chambers bro trust me
okay where are they?
>right here
hmmm. looks like the Soviets built this.
>uhhhhhh trust me bro, it looked just like this before the Soviets destroyed all the evidence. The only reason the Soviets built these was so we could all know just exactly how evil Hitler was and the Soviets were 100% honest in their recreations about this, bro. Trust me, bro.
No, Irving was right. There wasn't a gas chamber at Auschwitz.
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>>17277730
>Being challenged for his inquiry and the manner in which he played devils advocate against the orthodox historical narrative, caused him to dig his heels in and take positions that he really ought to have known were not tenable.
Do you have any examples of that? Genuinely curious.
I'm not a Holocaust denier or anything but what struck me about the trial is when David Irving pointed out there were no holes in the roofs of the supposed gas chambers, as the blueprints and drawings showed. Also when he said there was not a high residue of cyanide in the rocks of the walls, and that the de-lousing room at Auschwitz had an even higher concentration than the gas chamber.
I really don't know how to explain that.
>Himmler
Yeah I mean Himmler's Posen speech expressly admits that they had a plan to exterminate Jews and were carrying it out. I guess the contention is whether that occurred by shooting or in the concentration camps too.
> acted beneath Hitler's knowledge, subverted Hitler's leadership,
That's quite retarded though. How could such a large plan go under the nose of Hitler who was at the top of the command? How could Himmler have even been ballsy enough to do that without Hitler's approval?
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>>17277442
6 million counts of not guilty
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>>17277781
>Muhhh, People lie about the Nazis!!!!!
>Ok what are you saying? That we should look closer at Auschwitz and the Gas Chambers
>No, they exist, but the Soviets build it, because they actually care about ruining the Image of a defeated Enemy in Light of a new Geopolitical Rival
Do you actually listen to yourself retard?
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>>17277442
I don't particularly care for him or his work, but I can't help but wonder how different his career would have been in a bizarro world where he was the establishment rather than the heresiarch. Just to what degree can one swim against the dominant current, with the objection of every institution under the sun holding them down, while still being able to do work of reasonable quality? Would the establishment-approved historians of our world hold steadfast, or crumble and lose their cool under pressure in the bizarro world?
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>>17277819
lol. are you seriously saying that the Soviet Union did not have an ax to grind against Nazi Germany after World War 2? Are you saying that the Soviets didn't have any reason to make the Nazis look like monsters?

People do lie about the Nazis.
>muh Soap
>muh Lampshades
>muh electrocution chambers
>muh holocoasters
>muh 6 million

The United States Holocaust Museum claims more than 6,000 Jews were being gassed every day at Auschwitz between 1943 and 1944.
This is literally impossible. Where are the bodies? Where are the ashes? It's literally impossible to burn that many people in the crematorium at Auschwitz, so where are the mass graves? There aren't any there. It's a lie.

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/gassing-operations

So now that we've established beyond any doubt that the official narrative of the US Holocaust Museum is boldfacedly lying about the scale of these gassings. Is it possible they were lying about their existence at all? Yes. There is no record of a gas chamber bigger than a tiny closet used for fumigation of bedding at Auschwitz. This is where the Zyklon B meme comes from, because its the only poison that anyone can ever prove was in Auschwitz and it was there in the same amounts as it was in literally every other concentration camp used for delousing.

The Gas Chambers are without any doubt in my mind, a lie.
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>>17277490
Why is there many disgusting kikes on this board
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>>17277904
you can go back to your home board /pol/tard. we dont want you uneducated nazi scumbags here.
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>>17277904
>Why is there many disgusting kikes on this board
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>>17277889
Alfred Franke-Gricksch, SS Personnel.

>Jewish resettlement action.

>The Auschwitz camp has a special task in the settlement of the Jewish question. The most modern methods make it possible to implement the Führer Order very quickly and discreetly. The so called “resettlement action” for the Jews proceeds as follows:

>The Jews arrive in special trains (goods wagons) towards evening and are taken by a special line to a special area of the camp. There they are unloaded and examined by a medical board in the presence of the Camp Commandant and several SS leaders in the first place to see if they are fit for work. Here anybody who can be integrated into the work process in any way is sent to a special camp. Those with some temporary ailment are sent immediately to the quarantine camp and are brought back to health through a special diet. The basic principle is: keep as many prisoners as possible for labor. The “resettlement action” of the old sort is completely rejected, for it is not permissible to systematically destroy substantial labour capacities.

>The unfit go to a biggish house, into the basement rooms, which are accessible from the outside. They descend 5 or 6 steps and come to a long, well built and ventilated basement, fitted with benches on the right and left. It is brightly lit, and above the benches are numbers. The prisoners are told that they are to be disinfected and washed ready for their new tasks. They therefore have to undress completely to be bathed. In order to avoid any panic or disorder, they are told to arrange their clothes neatly and leave them under a number so that they can find their things again after the bath. Everything proceeds in complete calm. They then go through a small corridor and arrive in a big basement room that resembles a shower room. In this room, there are three big pillars. Into these it is possible from above, outside the basement, to lower certain products. After 300 to 400 people have gathered in this room, the doors are closed and from above the containers with the products are lowered into the pillars. When the containers reach the floor of the pillars, they produce certain substances that put the people to sleep in one minute. A few minutes later, the door on the other side is opened, leading to a lift. The hair of the corpses is cut off and the teeth are broken out (gold teeth) by qualified people (Jews). It has been observed that Jews have hidden jewels, gold, platinum, etc. in hollow teeth. After this the corpses are loaded into the lift said go to the first floor. There, there are 10 big crematorium furnaces in which the corpses are burned. (As fresh corpses burn particularly well, the whole process requires only ½ to 1 Zentner of coke). The work itself is carried out by Jewish prisoners who will never leave this camp.

>The result to date of this “resettlement action”: 500,000 Jews. The present capacity of the “resettlement action” furnaces:10,000 in 24 hours.
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Let me give you all a quick rundown of what actually happened, free of hooknose revisionist history.

>jews make claim that 900 quadrillion members of the tribe are buried in some random field
>irving says "great let's get a team in their to confirm it"
>jews say "oy vey you can't disrupt a jewish burial ground"
>irving offers to come in with scientific tools to determine if there are bodies buried there
>jews kvetch and say "no how dare you question the chosen people!"
>irving goes on trial, loses because of kike lawyers defending fellow kikes
>the holocaust is still the ONLY event in history you are officially not allowed to question
>you can legally say that we never walked on the moon, there were multiple shooters for jfk, obama was born in kenya, but denying the holocaust is still the only event you go to prison for

One day the truth will come out though. It's just a matter of time. Jews are like that kid who got a bad report card and is trying to hide it from his parents for as long as humanly possible, but the truth will come out eventually.
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>reminder that literally half of Auschwitz was a women's camp, who didn't work and had camp gynocologists giving them medical treatment and they had a camp orchestra that performed for the other members of the camp routinely.
>reminder that rumors of Germans gassing their prisoners goes back to World War 1 and is the result of hysterical rumors and anecdotes, not physical evidence.
>reminder that most stories of "survivors" are that they were separated from their family members upon arrival, and assumed they were all killed, but in reality were often just separated to the men/women side of the camp or later sent to different camps or died of disease. This is literally what happened to Anne Frank.
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>>17277988
load of nonsense

kill yourself
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holocaust deniers deserve to be holocausted. gas them, experiment on them, liquidate them. irving should be brutally tortured mengele style then burnt alive
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>>17277993
Typical shylock response, right on cue.
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>>17277988
>but denying the holocaust is still the only event you go to prison for

except he didn't go on trial for holocaust denial. he was the plaintiff in a libel suit against another academic over being called a holocaust denier. which he lost despite losing a British libel case as a plaintiff being widely considered almost impossible (even when the libelous statements are factually true)
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>>17277988
Wrong, Irving sued a Jewish historian for libel because she wrote that he is a holocaust denier who perverts historical evidence. This, he said, was false and damaged his reputation as a historian and thus negatively impacted his life. He was the plaintiff, not the defendant.
In reality it was just a way for Irving to get her into a debate, which she had refused to do before. Irving, being a narcissist, thinks that he is the "one" historian whom Hitler prophesied will come after his death and vindicate his name. He thought that this trial would make holocaust revisionism a respected historical theory, but since he lost it only discredited it more.
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>>17277992
if you’re not unironically schizo you should read borowski and primo levi
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>>17278032
>historical accuracy is determined by popular consensus
>the law bending for political interests is good if it serves the interests I consider right

I don't even like Irving but fuck you. Just fuck you.
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If anyone here thinks it's crazy to believe that Jews would completely fabricate a lie about the Germans killing millions of people in order to gain sympathy for Jewish causes, well, the Jews have already admitted that they did exactly that:
https://www.jta.org/2017/01/31/united-states/remember-the-11-million-why-an-inflated-victims-tally-irks-holocaust-historians

Read that article and pay attention to how the author doesn't even give a single thought to the fact that these Jewish historians were hitting the Germans with a massive blood libel by making up these 5 million non-Jewish holocaust victims. Their one and only concern is what will do the most to help Jewish ethnic interests.
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>>17278062
>historical accuracy is determined by popular consensus
>the law bending for political interests is good if it serves the interests I consider right
deborah didn't just ask the judge to rule in her favour, retard. she proved he had deliberately misrepresented history. stay assblasted, senpai
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>>17278062
>I don't even like Irving
You clearly do like Irving because you just assumed that the judge was biased for "political interests" rather than that Irving just didn't make a good case.
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>>17278111
I don't have to like Irving to not be blind to the fact that public enemy number one isn't going to receive fair litigation in his lifetime ever.
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>>17278132
>makes a libel claim against a woman across the world, forcing her to go to the uk to disprove your allegations, rather than you prove them yourself
>loses trial
>n-n-not fair bros! the jews did it!
oh im laffin
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>>17278102
There is absolutely no doubt that Germans were specifically targeting Jews to exterminate them. You can listen to Himmler admit it right here (https://youtu.be/mRO04q_lQi4). Not even Irving denies this. The only contention of revisionists like Irving is whether Hitler knew about it or not, whether the genocide occurred in the camps or only in shooting squads, and whether 6 million died.
The revisionists do have some arguments on that front, but there are so many documents (eg. >>17277967), so much independent eyewitness testimony, so many confessions from SS members, that the revisionist view is only slightly interesting.
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>>17278165
>so many confessions from SS members
Somebody please link that pasta which describes how the genitals of the people who eventually confessed were mutilated beyond recognition.
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>>17277967
Again this is narrative evidence, not physical evidence. The buildings he describes do not exist. The cremortia at Auschwitz that actually did exist cannot burn 10,000 bodies in 24 hours. its impossible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topf_and_Sons#:~:text=In%20all%2C%20Topf%20built%2025,muffles')%20for%20concentration%20camps.

All the crematoria built in the camps were single person ovens. A single person oven takes at least an hour to sufficiently break down a human body.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topf_and_Sons#Auschwitz_I_and_II

>From August 1940 to May 1942, Topf & Söhne built three double-muffle ovens at Auschwitz Camp I.
so 6 ovens
>In October 1941, the SS placed an order for five three-muffle ovens for the new Auschwitz-Birkenau extermination camp
+ 15 ovens
>Topf & Söhne installed a further two 8-muffle ovens in September 1942
+ 16 ovens
>five triple-muffle ovens were installed at Auschwitz II by mid-March 1943
+ 15 ovens

so a total of 51 ovens by the end of the war.
Keep in mind these are all single body ovens, so you can't stick more than one body in there, and even if you did, it would just take twice as long to burn the body.
Thats 51 bodies and hour * 24 hours a day = 1224 bodies a day, if literally every oven is working at over max capacity every single hour of the day.

1224 bodies a day * 365 days a year is 446,760 bodies a year, by the end of the war, and they weren't even capable of burning that many bodies for most of the war.

>the work is done by Jewish prisoners
this would require so much fucking human labor that it's unbelievable.
So every single fucking hour on the hour. starving Jewish prisoners had to grab dead bodies each weighing say 150 pounds minimum of their fellow jews and carry the bodies from the killing chambers up to the crematoria to be incinerated.

If they were gassing Jews 300 or 400 at a time as you say, it would be 6-8 hours minimum before you could free up enough crematorium to burn them. Its all so ridiculous.
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>>17277442
Nexus of British war guilt in both wars is his real legacy, from backing Black Hand, to the Foreign Office cabal withholding critical peace overtures/deescalation communiques between France, Russia & Germany, to Churchill’s unilateral unauthorized activation of the northern fleet and starvation blockade held a year after armistice (compounding Spanish flu deaths over half the continent), to election interference on FDR’s behalf to install Wendell Wilkie, to initiating the first civilian bombing raid on Berlin and Mad Bomber Harris’ interservice rivalry egotism and power grab resulting in the ineffectual strategic bombing campaign
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>>17278223
fuck 52 ovens not 51
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>>17277599
Kys
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>>17277967
>>The result to date of this “resettlement action”: 500,000 Jews. The present capacity of the “resettlement action” furnaces:10,000 in 24 hours.
Kek, this is ridiculous. You people think you're so rational because you "actually look at the evidence for it," but you never give a real hard look for the evidence against it. Which is of an enormous plenitude both anecdotal and statistical. But as with most blurred events in history, the truth is between to some degree.
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>>17278223
What possible motivation would an SS officer have to lie about this given that he wrote this report before the war ended?
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>>17277442
>History is a lie agreed upon — literally Bonaparte

>>17277596
Americans routinely gassed migrant laborers on the Southern border with Zyklon B — ‘gas chamber’ doesn’t delimited use function in any meaningful way when the facilities are adulterated by post-war Soviet architectural bowdlerizations and no filtration/sealant material present to accommodate such lurid ghoulishness

>>17277967
Extracted under KNVD torture, those two’s accounts haven’t been regarded as reliable for decades. What’s interesting about Auschwitz is the sheer power consumption for a facility nominally producing ‘artificial rubber’ — and had zero documentation on production numbers, and non-torture extracted testimony to the effect that no rubber was in fact produced there (uranium refinement, exotic weaponry e.g. the eponymous Bell). U-235 carried refined uranium destined for Japan in ‘45, which surrendered (while actively pursued by Canadian navy units) to Americans off the East coast. The Japanese officers committed sudoku after a shouting match. Manhattan Project completed 4 months ahead of schedule. Probably negotiated for between Gehlen & Dulles in Switzerland in the Paperclip prenuptials.
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>>17278223
To follow this up, modern crematorium take about 2-3 hours to fully cremate a body.
https://www.funeralwise.com/plan/cremation/cremation-process/
1 hour per body is a gross underestimate, but Holocaust Liars stretch the truth to an even crazier degree, by saying these super crematorium could burn away a whole human body in only 20 minutes. Where is this lost magic technology? If only modern people could reconstruct it.
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>>17278343
https://www.ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p167_Weberb.html
>Former Auschwitz commandant Rudolf Höss was tortured by British officials into signing a false and self-incriminating "confession" that has been widely cited as a key document of Holocaust extermination. His testimony before the Nuremberg Tribunal, a high point of the proceeding, was perhaps the most striking and memorable evidence presented there of a German extermination program. /73 Höss maintained that two and half million people had been killed in Auschwitz gas chambers, and that another 500,000 inmates had died there of other causes. No serious or reputable historian now accepts either of these fantastic figures, and other key portions of Höss' "confession" are now generally acknowledged to be untrue. /74
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>>17277442
He's too smart for me.
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>>17277442
Irving uses blatantly bullshit citations to create the fake idea Hitler was some sort of tactical genius undermined by everyone else around him. If you agree with him you're just not well read.

>>17278005
He's not a holocaust denier, just a big Hitler fan.

>>17278384
Go and read Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers.
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>>17278408
Yes but the report I pasted by Alfred Franke-Gricksch was written before the war ended.
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>>17277442
Absolutely disgusting that this man got jailed, and that fact alone made me dislike Jews
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>>17278384

you do realise cremation ovens aren't all made the same? the amount of time would depend on a lot of factors like size, heat, throughput, whether you are operating continuously or not etc. and that modern ovens aren't designed with high output in mind

that's why industrial incinerators burn many times the amount of material per square metre of capacity compared with modern crematoria designed for 1 body per day.
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>>17278443
https://www.jstor.org/stable/1455365?seq=1
>article in the The Jewish Quarterly Review
>Jewish Quarterly Review
>Jewish Review
>Jewish
anon I... perhaps you could just post the piecesof that article that you think make it possible to burn 10,000 bodies a day in 52 single person ovens. Then I'll post a video from a modern crematoria explaining how its impossible.
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>>17278480
you're telling me, these single-body ovens from 1940 can incinerate a body in 20 mins, but this modern behemoth takes 4 hours? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC8KKkll5Qw

Anon, it's okay. you're experiencing cognitive dissonance right now. It's impossible to burn that many bodies with the infrastructure at Auschwitz. It's not your fault, you were told this lie since infancy. This moment, for many, is like when they discover santa claus is not real. You probably have a lot of questions and are feeling a little anxious. It's okay. I understand what you're going through.
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>>17278463
he should be executed
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>>17278556
One day when you kikes are rooted out and finally exposed we'll get a real Holocaust and it will be just.
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>>17278563
you have schizophrenia and likely substance abuse problems
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>>17278549
How do you know how many ovens they had? The Germans destroyed a lot of evidence when they fled from the red army.
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>>17278549
>you're telling me, these single-body ovens from 1940 can incinerate a body in 20 mins, but this modern behemoth takes 4 hours? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pC8KKkll5Qw [Embed]

yes because modern ovens aren't designed with burning bodies quickly in mind and because they have to heat the oven up from cold each time which you wouldn't do if you were burning large numbers of bodies

https://www.inciner8.com/general-incinerator/I8-75G

>0.75 metres squared [probably half or even less capacity compared with each muffle of the topf ovens]
>40-100kg per hour of solid, medical or animal waste (what is that 1-2 holocaust skellies per hour?)

turns out people who are paying to have their loved ones cremated don't want to hear "oh yeah we burned your grandmother, 2 other bodies, a dead lab monkey and 6 bags of syringes all in one load feel free to shovel up whatever ashes you want"
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>>17278581
>all the evidence was destroyed conveniently.
Anon... why would the Germans blow up crematorium? and why would there be no evidence of additional crematorium being built, when we have the records of all the others being built? And why is it only these missing ghost crematorium without records are the ones blown up by the Germans?

Isn't it just simply a lot more likely these crematorium were used to deal with the people who died of natural causes within the camp and so they would never need to burn more than 1000 bodies in a day across the multiple Auschwitz-Birkenau camps, unless there was a disaster or outbreak of disease.
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>>17278453
Prove it.
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>>17278632
anon... you can literally see in the picture that you are responding to that the ovens used at Auschwitz were not massive industrial incinerators. They were simply single-body ovens, no different than other civilian crematorium ovens, and therefore cannot burn huqe quantities as you describe. In fact if those kinds of massive industrial scale ovens were actually present at Auschwitz, I would concede that yes, the Nazis could have and did burn all those Jews by the thousands and millions, just the way the story goes. But they aren't there. Its just regular civilian ovens, no different than modern ones.

It's okay, anon. I know it can be painful to discover this truth.
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>>17278640
>Anon... why would the Germans blow up crematorium? and why would there be no evidence of additional crematorium being built, when we have the records of all the others being built? And why is it only these missing ghost crematorium without records are the ones blown up by the Germans?
Because it was a secret project. Pic rel is a code of secrecy that SS members had to swear when coming to work at Auschwitz. It says:

>1) I am aware, and I was today reminded of the fact, that I will be punished with death, if I steal for myself Jewish property of any kind.
>2) Most importantly, I will maintain unconditional secrecy during the measures to carry out the Jewish evacuation, and also vis-à-vis my comrades.
>3) I pledge myself to commit my entire person and my capacity for work toward the swift and smooth execution of these measures.
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>>17278632
>https://www.inciner8.com/general-incinerator/I8-75G
even this industrial incinerator (not a much less efficient crematorium oven) can only burn 100 kg per hour, which is roughly one human body every hour... So 20 minute cremations are literally impossible according to your own research.
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>>17278686
>anon... you can literally see in the picture that you are responding to that the ovens used at Auschwitz were not massive industrial incinerators

you illiterate nigger how big do you think 0.75m2 is? that industrial incinerator I posted is only 1.5 meters long by 1.1 meters wide (externally). it is much smaller than the Topf and Sons ovens
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>>17278704
there are no records of any other crematorium there. not even ruins.
you cannot just say, "but they were super secret!!" and assume a bunch of extra crematorium buildings were there, when they were not, and we have extensive proof of the ones that were there.
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>>17277599
>wehrabooism
Reddit.com
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>>17278718
>can only burn 100 kg per hour, which is roughly one human body every hour

unironically do you just not understand metric units or do you think every concentration camp inmate was morbidly obese? how many central european manlet jews do you think were 220lbs based on these pictures
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>>17278737
I'm not saying that was definitely the case. I'm just asking you how you know for sure there were only 52 ovens. IDK for sure if the "destroying evidence" is the right explanation, but Alfred Franke-Gricksch clearly states in his report that the furnaces have a capacity of 10,000 in 1 day, so either the furnaces were destroyed, your math is wrong, or Alfred Franke-Gricksch, an SS man, lied for no reason.
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>>17277442
>What do we think of David Irving?

He would have made millions peddling his hateful bullshit in the internet world.
Alas, he was born too soon to see the village idiot promoted to the position of shaman in todays american politic.


Burn him clean
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>>17278768
They look alive to me!
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>>17277442
fpbp
thus, stupid thread
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>>17278730
the Topf and Sons ovens weren't incinerators you Jewish Nigger. They were standard civilian grade single-body crematorium. They cannot burn an adult body in less than an hour.

>>17278768
posts people that have clearly been starving for days, whereas the accusation states that people were gassed and then burned immediately upon arrival.
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>>17277904
Its literally a IDF unit.
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>>17279011
This
They always hone in on the Irving threads like lightning.
>>
https://www.hdot.org/debunking-denial/ab4-civilian-ovens-comparison/
For those comparing the time it takes to burn bodies normally using civilian means to the way the crematoria at Auschwitz were historically operated.

Take note of the manufacturer Topf's own instruction:
>Primary document on the cremation of multiple bodies at once:
>Additional instructions in September 1941 from Topf & Sons (the designers and manufacturers of the ovens) advised that “once the cremation chamber has been brought to a good red heat the bodies can be introduced one after the other in the cremation chambers.” This letter cautioned against letting the ovens cool down.[9]
>The instructions from Topf & Sons for their double muffle furnaces suggested that a body might be added to the oven during the last 20 minutes of the prior cremation. That is, a body could be added to the oven before the last body was fully cremated. The instructions say: “As soon as the remains of the bodies have fallen from the chamotte grid to the ash collection channel below, they should be pulled forward towards the ash removal door, using the scraper. Here they can be left for a further twenty minutes to be fully consumed . . . In the meantime, further bodies can be introduced one after the other into the chambers.”[10] According to Topf’s calculations, this would result in a 25-minute burning cycle for each body.[11]

This is why people claim that bodies were burned faster in these ovens than would be burnt using standard techniques.

HOWEVER this same site makes some rather dubious claims as wells such as:
>For instance, the men in the Sonderkommandos were instructed to combine the bodies of fat people, skeletal ‘Muselmänner,’ and children. This was done to burn the most bodies in the least amount of time; they put the bodies in the ovens continuously. The result was very high efficiency: very little fuel was needed to keep the process going for hours or days. Testimony suggests that the ovens were used continuously.
and
>They burned multiple bodies at one time, continuously pushing in more to keep the fires hot.
This is just plain impossible and demonstrates that the site is full of shit and doesn't understand the process of burning a human body. A human body as you have no doubt heard is more than 70% water. As a result, it cannot be used a fuel to burn other bodies. It is a net drain of energy to boil off all the water in a human body compared to the energy released from burning the body's fat.
I was about to declare victory against /pol/tards, but now I think my own source is proving them right and this is some Jewish bullshit.
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>>17278931
>the Topf and Sons ovens weren't incinerators you Jewish Nigger. They were standard civilian grade single-body crematorium

? literally same fucking thing except in name. also Topf clearly based on surviving documentation and statements by Topf himself designed designed their ovens with large throughput of bodies in mind
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>>17279044
So if it's 25 minutes for each body according to Topf himself, do we have enough to say 1 million died at Auschwitz in this way?
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>>17279030
Just look at the "we" posters.
>>
I am against rulings of such matters of speech. So long as there is no slander/libel involved, it's irrelevant.

No historical event is above criticism/revisionism and neither is it above the rights of the individual.
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>>17277730
Interesting post, thanks. I've always wanted a psychological breakdown of Irving and the basic progression of his positions and views on the Nazi holocaust. This makes sense and fits the disconnected hunches I had trouble correlating.

I do find it troubling that Hitler squandered his talents and love of Germany on faggot sociopath weasels like Himmler. I wonder how much we would put down to naivete and how much to sociopathy if we knew all the facts.
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>>17277442
He's a shoddy historian and has some seriously retarded views. I believe in free speech and think it's wrong that he's been fined for expressing his views, even though they're braindead and ahistorical.

Also, UK libel laws are retarded and make it far too easy to sue for libel. Irving shouldn't have filed his bonehead lawsuit in the first place.
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>>17277442
Oh great, another thread designed to bring /pol/ into /lit/ for a terrible discussion lead by holocaust denying morons.
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>>17279760
Whoops, that should have said led not lead.
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>>17277730
>chap
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>>17277442
I know he's really controversial about some holocaust stuff but I dont know about all that. Listen. I read "The Trail of the Fox." His book about Rommel. It was really quite good! I dont think it had anything controversial in it, unless there was some shit that I dont even realize is contentious. It just seemed like a very well-researched, engagingly-written historical work. Based on that... kinda think this guy has been mistreated. And when you mistreat a guy, of course he'll get more extreme, as a sort of defensive response.
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>>17278343
>What possible motivation would an SS officer have to lie about this given that he wrote this report before the war ended?

When someone is torturing you, you'll say just about anything to make them stop.
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>>17279750
What books of his have you read.
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>>17278581
And the evidence that it's there in the first place is... The Red Army's testimony...

...And the Red Army was caught red handed multiple times adding things to the camp that weren't there, unless you're seriously going to argue in defense of the Masturbation Machines and the Holocoster...

...Huh... It's almost like the Red Army... Faked things... Hmm...
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>>17279851
What possible motive could the USSR have to make Nazi Germany look bad?
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>>17277967
>The present capacity of the “resettlement action” furnaces:10,000 in 24 hours.

German engineering was truly ahead of its time. Sadly, we can only speculate about the semen production capacity of the fabled masturbation machines.
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>>17277442
I think he is actually a pretty good writer and his books do give details about WWII you don't often find in other works. Revisionism part is a bit weird tho. His main argument was that there is no documentation of Hitler having anything to do with the holocaust even though normal executions could be folled all the way by a papar trail from him to the executioner. Combine this with Hitler being to busy with the war and Himmler having control over the SS and the camps and supposedly he would kill them. I think that there are stronger revisionist arguments in other ereas than that one
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>>17277730
>reconsider
You mean the reconsideration he was legally required to have if he wanted to leave prison?
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>>17279870
>playing dumb about something that's obvious

right out of the handbook

you get a gold star
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>>17278165
The problem with the confessions from SS members, survivors and with documentation is that all this was also present in the western camps which were indeed ''proven'' to be extermination camps at the Nuremberg trails but eventially all the camps in west Germany turned out not to be extermination camps. Not with gas chambers at least. Those were only in the soviet areas and it has already been proven the soviets lied about German war crimes multiple times
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>>17279907
I think it was clearly a sarcastic post anon
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>>17277730
You're probably more right than wrong here. Good post. But I must point out, referring to your last paragraph regarding 'culpability'. We both know, as far as WWII history and its effect on modern social discourse, the difference between 'creating and fostering a political climate [hostile to Jews]' is very very much different than coordinating the construction and operation of death camps. Without an executive sign-off on, or approval of, the camps as commonly accepted in holocaust and WWII literature, the culpability of Hitler himself is genuinely up for discussion.

It's well-established that Hitler constantly mistrusted his subordinates (specifically in military matters), which fact I think Irving latched on to as an explanation for why things on the ground (and in the camps) may have occurred more-or-less without or against Hitler's intentions.
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>>17277794
Himmler did something even more ballsy than that--he attempted to assume leadership and negotiate a surrender during the fall of Berlin. So it's not particularly out of character.
>>
I don’t really understand his hitler dindu nuffin project. It does not make sense to me that a micromanaging absolute ruler like hitler was successfully deceived and betrayed and undermined by so many of his subordinates (who risked likely death in the process) so as to be absolved of all responsibility for everything.
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>>17277993
no rebuttal, just emotion
>>17278024
yes, but when the definition of holocaust denial encapsulates anything that is skeptical about the official numbers, means, methods, and motivations, we're all holocaust deniers in one way or another. Yet it's wielded like a special slander, transcending the usual personal insults. I would have defended myself too.
>>17278032
Jesus, dude. The case didn't debate or assess the actual physical evidence. It was "my testimony" vs "absence of means capable of producing the numbers asserted." Yet guess which way it went?
>>
It didn't happen, but it should have, and will soon
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>>17279794
>being a yank
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>>17278768
hmmm
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>>17277442
>>17277794
>>17277802
>>17277889
>>17277904
>>17277988
>>17277992
>>17278102
>>17278107
>>17278223
>>17278368
>>17278384
>>17278463
>>17278549
>>17278640
>>17278686
>>17280707
https://imgur.com/a/725A7

https://imgur.com/a/AubwH

https://imgur.com/a/MbpVq

https://imgur.com/a/iNYHW

https://imgur.com/a/nW70r

https://imgur.com/a/YTjir

Topf und Sonhe, the company that built the ovens, claim they could burn 1.3 million a year in Auschwits-Birkenau, on this internal German memo.
https://imgur.com/d09KvVO

>The planking of the reinforced concrete ceiling of the corpse cellar could not yet be removed due to the freezing weather. However, this is not significant, as the gassing cellar [Vergasungskeller] can be used for this purpose.
https://i.imgur.com/VzRzw6g.gif (link to Bischoff's letter)
https://phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/19430129-vergasungskeller

photographs of victims
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2009/03/photographic-documentation-of-nazi.html

list of published documents from the nazis about the holocaust
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.ie/2012/10/index-of-published-evidence-on.html
Heres Eisenhower, Bradly and Patton inspecting Camp Ohrdruf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR2m5Aa8aCo

Locals brought in to witness what happened at Dachau
https://youtu.be/jF6KW4rS7TM

Bodies of inmates left inside the railroad carts at Dachau
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yQNGX8Ag4M

Liberated inmates from Camp Ebensee
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCaYmP8SQn8

Footage from Mauthausen after being liberated
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjj3WJFZcY0

Bergen-Belsen after being liberated
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KCKagd6Ihk



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