Hello /lit/. I'm 18 years old and have failed my first college semester (and classes I took in 12th grade) due to getting depressed and apathetic. Why do all this work for a piece of paper that might get me a job? I don't even care about money enough to want a demanding and high-paying job, why are my parents doing this to me without understanding who I am?I got high again last night and became, what I believe is, self aware. I'm not sure to what extent others have experienced this, but I looked at myself and others through a very different lens. We are all these creatures made of matter that move around and do things. It's very weird *how* we exist, but *why* is another strange question. We are like cartoon characters aware that we have certain functions and quirks. But there are others! Our neighbors experience a lot of what we do. It's like we take comfort in how scared we are of existence through our similarities. So much so that we fight wars just to keep the unfamiliar away. Looking at things this way has left me at a standstill. My old goals were to redeem my low status. Feel loved by my family and random strangers. Now I need a new one, and reason for it. We basically die doing nothing. Boredom and nothingness has caused me, and many in this new era mental illness like depression and anxiety. It's like we're built to die if we don't force ourselves to face suffering. But we die anyways.After the high, I can't see people the same. Nobody is below or above me. We're all weird specimen who don't know what to do and are trying handle this burden placed on us: suffering and then death. In between are these occasional moments of joy and excitement. Moments that seem to justify the burden we're faced. My own parents, who were once a source of comfort and security, safe exploration and certainty, are now humans, not very different from myself. With this way of looking at them, why did they create me? To present a source of meaning? A source of challenge so their bodies don't wither away in nihilistic depression? It makes me wonder why I should do the same and bring another consciousness into such a strange and difficult existence, just so they can ponder these same questions.It might be obvious from this post that I'm a pretty cynical person. I don't have many (if any) friends, and I'll be losing them once I drop out for a full-time job. I have a lot more to say about socializing, but this is already feeling long.What would you recommend someone like me read? I've read 12 rules for life, but something just wasn't working for me. Maybe I didn't apply it all hard enough. I want something that really wants to find the "truth". I don't know what to do with myself, and I don't enjoy life all that often or much. Something to help justify my suffering.
>>12191827serious reply>Why do all this work for a piece of paper that might get me a job?Because without a job you will be a burden on your parent(s) and your poverty and uselessness will increase until you drop out of the world altogether.You should read Knut Hamsun's Hunger. You should read this book while sleeping on the street for a couple of nights. Hopefully your parents change the locks and you'll actually learn why you need a piece of paper that might get you a job.
also>I don't know what to do with myself, and I don't enjoy life all that often or much. Something to help justify my suffering.Book of Job. Seriously, read the Bible. Proverbs and Ecclesiastes if you don't want to start with Job.>A little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to rest-->and poverty will come on you like a thief and scarcity like an armed man.>A troublemaker and a villain, who goes about with a corrupt mouth,>who winks maliciously with his eye, signals with his feet and motions with his fingers,>who plots evil with deceit in his heart-- he always stirs up conflict.>Therefore disaster will overtake him in an instant; he will suddenly be destroyed--without remedy.This passage is about you, and idleness, and the destitute of 4chan.
>>12191857>>12191833Appreciate the thoughtfulness.>Because without a job you will be a burden on your parent(s) and your poverty and uselessness will increase until you drop out of the world altogether.Can't I get a simple job and live alone fine? I'm the kind of person who's considered living in a van for a while. >Book of Job. Seriously, read the Bible. Proverbs and Ecclesiastes if you don't want to start with Job.I hear that a bit and read some of Genesis. Definitely giving Job a try. It's just a lot of content so it's a bit overwhelming.
>>12191833This is what it took for me. At 18 I picked up a heroin habit and had to be homeless and destitute for a while before I found my desire to live. Im 27 now and 6 years clean, without that suffering I endured and the work I put in to get where I am I probably would have an- hero'd. Today, what I have is my own and I couldn't be more proud of myself. Im respected by my peers and have a future I'm in control of. I don't recommend an opiate addiction or any drugs but get out of your parents house and make your own way from the lowest rung you can, it'll build character.;)Godspeed and God bless Anon
>>12191876>Can't I get a simple job and live alone fine?Sure, but you're 18. That won't work forever. What happens when your body starts aging, or you are injured? Doctors and dentists bills are a hell of a load. Or what if you get sick of riding the rails in seven years and want to get married but don't have any friends or good work experience.It's a tough world, and just barely skating by is not a safe plan. Strive because you must. You don't have to sell out and be a money chasing normie, but recognize the danger of setting goals too low.
>>12191833Serious retort to this reply:When I was homeless I was happier than I am with a home. Every moment I was caught in the immediacy of life, needs to be met were obvious, my ego was barely there—I could beg shamelessly eat and joke with drunks at a bum feed, sleep on the sidewalk. I was fearless, nothing to lose and every gain was a little miracle. I only stopped because I became a father. Now as a working person I’m having to go through therapy and use light drugs to cope.
>>12191940Be a fucking man and get off the drugs and get off 4chan
>>12191940Serious reply to your retort:I have only the slightest inkling of your experience. Breaking off from all culture you knew and adopting a new one, a more honest one, that accepts and indeed celebrates human needs. And with this change you change as well. As you say, ego takes a backseat to the moment out of necessity. Nobody is cute or proud there, because all are at the mercy of the same masters. But OP is not guaranteed that same experience. We don't know his specifics or how much he would be giving up, or if he is even capable of surviving it. Some people don't.
>>12191934You can work your way up to manager in a simple job such as retail though, right? Is college really the end-all?
>>12191963>Be a man = be unhappyNO U
>>12191827Can somebody give me a TL;DR?
>>12191978Sure, but are you actually organized, motivated, and competent enough to be a manager? From your OP you sound like you have trouble getting out of bed.College is not necessary, but it will help you. Honestly i was in your position once years ago. I enlisted in the Army. Learned a lot over a decade, then got out. If I had been younger or braver I would have only done one enlistment. College would be paid for and I'd still have miles to run on the odometer. It's a good gig and a spartan lifestyle.
>>12192022>Sure, but are you actually organized, motivated, and competent enough to be a manager? From your OP you sound like you have trouble getting out of bed.I'm motivated to work for money. Working my way up can be the goal, a reason to work harder so I can make more money. Plus, I have a creative thing I do on the side that might work out with the work I put into it. I've never had a real job, so maybe I'm wrong here, but I feel like doing work and getting my direct reward would work for me. Also, having the space to grow into different positions.The army might be possible, but I'd probably do a technical thing there.
>>12191963I’m not on serious drugs. Also>be a manI am.>>12191964You are right and well meaning and I certainly could produce a litany of humiliations and terrors drawn from my experiences which might put someone off from attempting it, but I offer it up as an antidote to the pervasive fear we first worlders have of living like most of the human species—it isn’t so bad, in fact I’m sure there are office workers who have felt every bit as humiliated and terrified as I have on the streets, in their own way. I suppose, ultimately, I would advise op to take advantage of the very rare opportunities afforded to him and be grateful. Experience is a dim candle
>>12191827the struggle is not worth it find a trade skill and learn academic stuff for fun i have an undergrad and in 3 years i have not done shit except work shit jobs and apply for good ones that keep passing me over even though i am qualified, just not the most qualified as they keep putting it now i am excited to take a job taking care of the mentally handicapped for minimum wage because i have been unemployed for 6 months and depressed the whole time and i regret not going for a trade more than anything i borrowed so much money i couldn't even go back if i wanted to mortuary sciences is what i would do if i could do it over again. i hate society i hate money, i hate everything an everyone so much i wish a plague would wipe us all out.
>>12192083Trades absolutely suck, it is hell on your body and low level exposures to toxins leads to brain damage. The CDC just released its finding that males in construction have the highest suicide rate of any profession in the USA. And from experience the ones that don’t put a gun in their mouth die slowly from drinking or overdose on fentanyl. Trades are awful.
>>12191827stop thinking and live mindlessly. work out frequently. sleep often. don't eat junk. if you find yourself sitting around doing nothing, go for a walk. make sure you are getting sun. make some friends.sitting at your parents place isn't doing you any favors. inactivity leads you straight to despair.
>>12192262I plan to get a full time job ASAP, so I'm not sitting around. I do jave trouble making friends though. I can talk to people but am unsure how to keep them around
Watch rick and morty, it seems you are operating on the same shallow, childish and pathetic perception of reality
Also, believing you reached an epiphany while smoking cannabis is a great indication of how little self-awareness you have.
>>12193204>>12193195If you have anything of substance to say, share it. Otherwise, making fun of my post doesn't do much use besides entertain you for a second or two
>>12193360You need to fix your own life, I'm just happy to tear down the ruins your playing around in
>>12192288coworkers are a great way to expand your circle of friends. otherwise, your best bet is to join some sort of club, hobby, meetup, event, etc. so that you can have a common bond between a stranger and go from there. i don't mind making friends on the spot at random, but a lot of people don't feel the same way.
You may find the philosophy of Alexei Nilych Kirillov from Dostoevsky's Devils right up your alleyway.
>>12191827don't look for "the truth" just read a lot of literature and you won't have your questions answered but you will achieve aesthetic transcendence and also nuance and wisdom and a greater awareness of the existence of other minds etc. no one can give you a simple straightforward answer. suspend your nihilism for a second. I recommend reading "goodbye my brother" by john cheever. it's a short story
>>12191827I hope you don't masturbate and watch porn, a lot of youth's problems nowadays comes from pornography addiction. ("I just masturbate to imagination" shills: please don't even respond, I am so fucking tired of having serious discussion with you, because you are so fucking addicted to jerking off that you can't drop it altogether for 3 months just to see for yourself whether nofap is meme or not)
>>12193568I didn't learn to masturbate until this summer. I've gotten depressed before and after it. I don't think experience pleasure intensely enough to be addicted things easily. Weed and caffeine are dropped easily
>>12193568I've never been so angry and willing to masturbate in at least 5 years
>>12194115>I didn't learn to masturbate until this summerThen you are in luck. I accidentally learned to masturbated at 11 (I was just lying around, playing with my dick, and then suddenly I came). I definitely turned my life to shit. And now I am 19, trying to quit porn and masturbation for 3 years, w/o any luck. Don't ever take the degeneracy pill, kid.
>>12191827Read this entire book, front to back, in the order it was intended to be read.
>>12194207I don't know if I believe masturbation is really the source of your problems.
>>12194217stop posting this meme, it doesn't even have any reviews on amazon
I say keep masterbaiting. Do the opposite of what is recommend
Notes from the underground
Keep reading. Take solstice in the darkness of others
>>12194217>>12194230Lmfao I found this thread when looking for reviews https://warosu.org/lit/thread/S9664520
>>12191940>When I was homeless I was happierSounds like you know how to adapt, why do t u find your adapter. Can’t be far, and remember to teach you kid how to use it. Good luck man
>>12191827Take sobriety seriously anon, stop thinking on substances, ur paranoia is just that, paranoia
>>12193568It's whatever, I am on no fap now for Lent, and some time before, but it's nothing to crazy as nofapers larp about. If you do it every day or multiple times a day, probably it's a big deal but if not that it's nothing spacial.
Take a piss on sobriety. Do what thou wilt
>>12194230>>12194257It's an important revolutionary deep philosophy.
>>12192014>muh happinessImagine being this pathetic.
>>12191827tldrread your own post but backwards or something
>>12191827the world is objectively without inherent meaning. nonetheless if you want to live you need money so you can atleast have a minimal physical comfort.if youre this sad and unhappy at university and you know for sure youre not an academic minded person that would do well then i would drop out. fuck the loans and fees etc. but i wouldnt drop out straight away. try to get a year off then you can work and decide if you want to come back. because at this age its so easy to change your mind. the extra 4 or 5 years can give you an advantage but only if you have a career goal to work at. not bumbling around in minimum pay work without a desire to move up.and whilst at any age its very possible to make changes, a defining thing about adulthood is that as you begin making choices (or lack of) for the options presented to you, other options will close off and that the older you get, the more severe this will seem when you realise you actually need to do things like budget, save money incase you get in trouble, get a pension and buy a house so youre not renting to the day you die. for many people things like this are stressful and a struggle. so its important you know where youre going work wise and money wise (or atleast trying potential careers out). and the earlier you can get into a stable independent situation the easier it is to change your options before you get older if yoy want to. again i say its always possible to make changes but i emphasise my points to people like you who may be prone to sadness or inactivity because people like this will find it the most difficult to make changes to their lives once theyve had a set back or make a mistake. some people are naturally optimistic and energetic and extraverted and make it look alot easier than it really is. but being 18 you are so open to the world right now.
>>12196505I am the kind of person who feels more during setbacks and am prone to sadness. I'm high in the trait Nueroticism so I feel a lot more negative emotion than the average person. I'm going to take a semester - or year off like you said - to work and see how I like that. I do have dreams and do want to progress when working a stale job though. College or not, I'm making career progress (I believe at least) and learning, so I'm not worried about that.Do you recommend anything to deal with life and the world better? I've looked into eastern thinking and people like Peterson and Harris - and am still learning - but often still get overwhelmed into inactivity about the future and regret of the past.
>>12196505cont.>>1219182i understand the world seems meaningless or cruel or that people are shit but this is precisely why i think you should start now to try cultivate in yourself positive views about yourself, others and the world because this will benefit you. imo there is ultimately no truth and you can drive yourself crazy trying to look for it when really you have to take control and make not only your own truth but a truth that benefits you. because the mindset youre in now wont do that. infact mental illness is all about mindset; a persons beliefs about their own value, their own ability and the benevolence of other people (we all rely on others to live) really is at the centre of depression and anxiety so you should work to change those beliefs. your worldview is one of the most important things in someones life.and you may not care about money now but i guarantee you will when (not that it will happen to you) you start feeling that youre not as independent as you should be or worrying about rent. ask alot of adults why they are sad or anxious and things like that often top the list. and i guarantee the depression or anxiety from that will be additive to your feelins now. oh and you should probably try to limit your drug use because that can get out of control fast especially if youre doing it alone.i recommend reading things about religion or spirituality because they often promote good values.and i recommend this. something structured that may help with how you feel. has alot of material in it and things you can read or do. https://palousemindfulness.com/MBSR/week0.html
>>12191940>needs to be met were obviousAnd how much fulfillment did you manage? Was it fun shitting in the alleyways and getting soaked in the rain? Was it nice knowing that despite being hungry there was no knowing whether you'd be able to meet that hunger with anything more than dustbin scraps? Was it fun knowing just how exposed you were to all those potentially life-threatening diseases and infections and with no one out there to care for you if got ill?
>>12194207dude porn and masturbation isnt a problem. you thinking its a problem is the problem. and probably stops you thinking about or doing other worthwhile things.>>12196554what do you regret in your past?i also recommed maybe keeping some sort of diary or log of what youre doing and what youre feeling each day and keep track of your goals (whether short term like going to the store or long term). monitoring and evaluate what youre doing i think encourages your own activity.also as a neurotic person i highly recommend not trying to overdo things. some people try to micromanage their lives and over-control things like eating, excercise, reading etc. just stick to the minimal you can do which will get you where you want - until you feel you can do more. you shouldnt feel the need to change something if it doesnt get in the way of where you want to be. obviously things like excercise can have a positive affect on you in general but you dont have to be strict.
>>12196626I was physically abused as a kid and was already shy and out of place before that, so I wish I tried to make my relationship with my family better. It's okay now, but I'm very lonely sometimes and don't feel I can turn to them for support.>i also recommed maybe keeping some sort of diary or log of what youre doing and what youre feeling each dayI had a digital one when I was 14, but it was weekly/monthly and I fell out of it. Starting today, I'll find something to use daily that can work on computer and mobile, because I don't always remember what "went wrong">also as a neurotic person i highly recommend not trying to overdo things. some people try to micromanage their lives and over-control things like eating, excercise, reading etc. just stick to the minimal you can do which will get you where you want - until you feel you can do more.That's a smart idea! I used to try and schedule each detail and get overwhelmed thinking about all the other details I need to think about. Small incremental improvements sounds like the way to go.Also, do you think it's best to focus on the present only and what can be meaningfully done now? I'm trying to find a way to look at things where I'm not thinking about stuff like finding a job (even thought I apply daily) or telling my parents I'm taking a semester off (that'll be scary but an inevitable convo)
>>12191827>hey guys remember how we tried to spook him with worms before?>haha yeah he didn't buy it at fucking all>let's try it again maybe this time it'll stick!
>>12191827Renounce Nihilism purely on Nihilistic reasoning.
Plato's Republic, Aristotle's Nichomachean Ethics, Epictetus' Discourses, and Spinoza's Ethics are the type of books I think you should look into. Marcus Aurelius' Meditations is also a good start. There's a lot of great existentialist philosophers and authors like Kierkegaard, Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Nietzsche, Sartre, and Camus, and they directly address the kinds of problems you're dealing with, so they would probably be somewhat more directly interesting and also valuable to look into and maybe read. But they kind of just capture how they feel in a way that really suits the modern condition, without exactly clearing up a lot. The books I mentioned above, on the other hand, bring a lot of clarity, if not final words, on what general directions to pursue in life and how to approach practical problems in a constructive way. You might think oh, those books are old and dry, what could they possibly tell me? I'm not wondering what justice and virtue are, I'm wondering how to feel less alienated, more happy, more comfortable. Well, I think part of the value of reading those books is that they make the case for pursuing a life of virtue that's ultimately more convincing than the case that physical pleasure and leisure make for themselves, and also show a variety of ways to pursue virtue. I think a big part of the modern condition, especially for young people (I'm young myself), is that self-centeredness is so conventional and the pressure to enjoy oneself takes people's minds off what is really fulfilling. The classical practical philosophers, who don't derive their ethical theories from faith or religion by the way are a good cure for the guilt that you're not enjoying life enough. They subordinate the desire to have a good life under the desire to be a good, virtuous person. And transitioning to that outlook I think makes the transition from adolescence to adulthood more enjoyable.
>>12196941An example from my own life: after I read Spinoza's Ethics, I've been consistently motivated to eat healthier, exercise regularly, and just generally apply myself more than before. He interprets the world in one of the healthiest perspectives I've ever encountered, and once you understand his perspective, you can look through it and it can ease your mental burdens, like it did for Einstein and Goethe.
>>12196822>I was physically abuseddamn thats rough.>"went wrong"you dont even necessarily have to look at it as what went wrong. i feel keeping track just might be a useful anchor because its easy to drift and days of not doing something can turn to weeks or months. this way you can look at what youve done in the past week or days and decide if you need to change up or not.>Also, do you think it's best to focus on the present only and what can be meaningfully done now?i think clearly if something needs addressing immediately, you just have to zone in on that.>telling my parents I'm taking a semester off>don't feel I can turn to them for support.yeah openness and honesty as much as possible is the best policy. whether you like it or not, parents are potentially really useful and important source of support for young people. it would be good if you could get to that stage where youre comfortable turning to them.
>>12191827Your autobiography written from the perspective of other people around you. Bonus points if you actually interview people for the controversial parts.
>>12191827>first college semester (and classes I took in 12th grade) due to getting depressed and apatheticgot through undergrad and postgrad while being s mentally ill lazy fucktry not being retarded
>>12196980I feel like you're actually now almost breaking the fourth wall in setting me up on a joke about Spinoza finally being able to stretch himself in body and mind so that he was able to reflect upon his gonads, forever a law in mind cast.
>>12191827read might is right by ragnar redbeard
>>12191827bro i'm 26. i felt the same way when i was your age and honestly yeah money isn't everything but when you're on your own without a degree or even with a degree it is super difficult to make enough money just to survive. once you have to fast between each paycheck and borrow money to take the train, sell drugs or your body just to make rent, etc. you don't really appreciate how much money matters and how valuable a stable legitimate job is. you may spend your whole life depressed and wrestling with these existential issues but paying bills is a much more pressing concern especially if you ever want to have a family. maybe college isn't for you and there are other jobs that don't require a degree but focus on building whatever skills those jobs do require, not on your depressiontldr: everyone is depressed but that's no reason to drop out of
>>12191827i'd recommend you read the job listings
>>12191876you'll get back problems trying to live in your car.
>>12191940i've met a few people like that who are way more comfortable living in the woods or on the street and miserable leading a 'normal' life. but i think the vast majroity of people would be miserable having to sleep out in the cold for even a few nights. I was briefly homeless and had a horrible experience and ended up getting raped. i'm grateful af to b out of that for now
>>12191978the managers at my old retail job made like a couple dollars more than minimum wage which is still barely enough to live off of especially if you drink or smoke weed or w/e. most of the managers there worked side jobs and/or lived with their parents, in the projects or slept on couches
>>12191827read Myth of Sisyphus and Siddhartha other works of Camus would work as well but Myth of Sisyphus is very short about a page of an essay. You can read his novels if you want more.
>>12198517I’m sorry you went through that anon, are you healing yourself?
>>12196598It was very fulfilling. I rode the freight around and saw many beautiful sights and had exciting and new experiences constantly.
>>12196598You sound like a pussy bro
>>12191934actually we have universal healthcare in my country so medical bills arent an issue
>>12192083In which city do you live?
>>12198644eh i'm trying
>>12198483>tldr: everyone is depressed but that's no reason to drop out ofif youre depressed enough youre failing and end up with a bad degree and lots of debt then better drop out early.
>>12191827anon, you failed your first semester and you think the matrix is falling before your eyes and you're in the process of discovering 'the truth'. I don't want to belittle your feelings cause I'm sure they are very real to you. However, it doesn't sound like you're looking for help, rather, you're looking to find comfort in your current mental state. For instance, there are many forms of nihilism and the one your trying to find comfort in is passive nihilism. "Oh life has no meaning so there's no point in trying. It just repeats. Woe is me..." That position is certainly an option but it's the weakest one (albeit the easiest). After I had some more serious troubles in my life, I did what another anon suggested and found The Myth of Sisyphus. From there I got into Nietzsche and my worldview changed (previously I was more religious). Ultimately I decided that if I accept the premise of 'nothingness after', then I'd rather dig myself out of the hole than get comfortable sleeping in dirt.You have to realize that you're 18 and failed in college for a semeater. It's really nbd considering what you'll face afterwards. Just try again.
>>12199785What's the significance of Sisyphus?
>>12199785More so than Christianity, I felt I could never suicide after reading TMoS. While I disagree with Camus' takeaway ("One must imagine Sisyphus happy"), I absolutely love what he says before:>It is during that return, that pause, that Sisyphus interests me. A face that toils so close to stones is already stone itself! I see that man going back down with a heavy yet measured step toward the torment of which he will never know the end. That hour like a breathing-space which returns as surely as his suffering, that is the hour of consciousness. At each of those moments when he leaves the heights and gradually sinks toward the lairs of the gods, he is superior to his fate. He is stronger than his rock.Being stronger than the rock is a virtue that lasts a lifetime and isn't as frail as happiness. It disregards trying to find meaning in life and refocuses your attention on the next step; always the next step.But keep in mind this is what did it for me and others may have their own path. You'll have to find what's right for you and that may involve trial and error without guaranteed results. But since you're here and you know where the path eventually ends, you might as well spend your time doing it until you can't.
>>12200028Sorry, meant to reply here >>12199915
>>12191827All our lives we sweat and savebuilding for a shallow gravethere must be something else we saysomehow to defend this placeeverything must be this wayeverything must be this way
>>12191857>>12191876I cannot say enough about Job. For thousands of years, philosophers have attempted to explain theodicy and Job crushes it on the first try. Ignore the beginning and end about God and the Accuser, that shit is just fanfic. Start at Chapter 3, which might be the most depressing thing I have ever read, and go through God's whirlwind speech to Job.
bump because I haven't read it yet and feel like might reply later on
Hey OP -- you're having an existential crisis. Pretty common among most decently intelligent people. See the chart below, but know that all options (except Zen Buddhism) involve a personal subjective denial of the objective "truth" -- nihilism.Zen is the easiest way mentally -- it does not rely on asserting a subjective view that is not objective, but it requires much discipline and practice.See the chart.
>>12191827Nihilism isn't the answer.
>>12200028>>12198624>>12199785>we must imagine the slave more powerful than the whipsounds like some cuck shit
>>12201941thank you for this one sentence reply oh great sage
>>12191827Go blog about it on reddit you massive faggot
>>12191827Join the military. It’s p fun.
>>12202001Oh massa you so strong and wise
>>12191827I hate insufferable plebs like you who smoke a joint for the first time then blogpost on websites like this and in this case this website. Go fuck yourself OP.
>>12200094>Job crushes it on the first try.no.