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NOOOOOOO WE GOT TOO COCKY TRANNERBROS
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>>14975975
Does anyone in this board really care?
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if you're not good enough to compete with the guys why are you even competing
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>>14975991
Because sports can be a fun past time. Some sports just aren't popular enough for leagues that aren't serious/are just for fun.
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>>14976023
if they're not serious then why does it matter if cis people play against trans people
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>>14975975
I wonder what kind of shitshow this would look like if it went all the way up. Anybody want to place bets on how they think it'll go down?
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>>14976058
i imagine any laws requiring trans girls to compete with guys would also make trans guys compete with girls. then we could all watch and laugh as roided ftms win everything
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no one cares if an mtf joins the local beer league soccer team. what gives. is this different because of money
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>>14976076
That would be cool.
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NOOOOOOO WE GOT TOO COCKY TRANNERBROS
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>>14976260
This actually might play in our favor. You file a sports lawsuit and then immediately afterwards you toast the competition? Sounds like you just shot your argument in the foot.
I have no idea why the bigots didn't sandbag the race.
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>>14975987
only agp's care about that
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>>14976260
>get lawsuit filed against you for unfair advantage
>suddenly start losing
hmmmm
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>>14976096
Yes they do lol
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>>14976359
What i thought
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The real problem with this trans sports stuff is that women fought for years to be able to have their own sporting events and scholarships separate from men and taken seriously on the same level. And now men are taking this all away from them again.
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>>14976586
But transwomen aren't men
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>>14976616

absolutely no one believes that. not even the people who say it.
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>>14976586
yeah yeah but sports should be separated by skill level, not sex.
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>>14976652
>sports should be separated by skill level

how would this even work
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>>14976616
oh no no no
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>>14976572
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>>14976624
I mean, they aren't? If you'd like to go the whole feminist route then I'm not sure it's alright to blame women for the victimization of other women. The effect that some transwomen are having on sports is a failing of the organizational system of sports, rather than a crime to be laid at the feet of transwomen.
>>14976661
You could do an Elo system like how they do it in chess. It'd get all fucky with team sports because elo isn't designed for team sports, but you can either fanagle it or figure out another ranking system.
There are a hundred ways you can organize sports and the idea of separating sports by gender was the laziest route we could have ever taken and was doomed to fail
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>>14976720
>its everyone else's fault
everytime
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>>14976720

and why should anyone make these massive, destructive changes to something which already works just fine? just to appease a tiny minority of sex-change fanatics?
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>>14976720
Transwomen will be kicked out of women's sports and transmen will never be allowed to play with women either.
Nor will transwomen or transmen ever try to play with men. Because they are fucking cowards who want to pretend to be women/beat up women to gain favor in sports leagues created by men for women.

Trans people should be dissallowed to compete in sports leagues where money and scholarships are involved.
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>>14976661
This
>>14976720
>There are a hundred ways you can organize sports and the idea of separating sports by gender was the laziest route we could have ever taken and was doomed to fail


Basically make some kind of scoring system. Like basketball, your height gives you so many points, your wing span gives you so many points, hand size, etc. Each sport would have to actually put effort into figuring out how to award the points. Then you set a cutoff for minor divisions and elite divisions
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>>14976738
If you don't plan for the future then I have no obligation to take responsibility. You can't blame another people because you set things up in such a way that any shakeup would decimate your entire industry
>>14976750
>to something which already works just fine
Clearly it doesn't work fine if the simple question of "who is a woman" sends devastating ripples through your industry.
Many sports already require trans athletes to have been on HRT for X number of months/years. If not even that is enough then maybe just fix your shit.
>just to appease a tiny minority of sex-change fanatics?
Do you want the empathetic reason or the economic reason? Because there is no justification to keep it this way beyond laziness.
>>14976754
>Trans people should be dissallowed to compete in sports leagues where money and scholarships are involved.
For what purpose? You think they won't sue to either muscle in on gendered divisions or create their own?
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>>14976779
>Clearly it doesn't work fine if the simple question of "who is a woman" sends devastating ripples through your industry.

You are the idiot who is causing the ripples. How can you possibly blame the industry for what you are doing to it?

You're like someone who breaks into someone's house, smashes their TV, and then says "Your TV is terrible. It doesn't even work! You should have bought me a radio instead."
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>>14976779
They can fucking do what they want. But hell will freeze before they will. E allowed into sports again. This will lead to a chain reaction that leads to common sense discussion about trans folk.
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>>14976799
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>>14976807
>You are the idiot who is causing the ripples. How can you possibly blame the industry for what you are doing to it?
Sports have always been the victim of genetic realities. What trans people are doing to sports is no worse than what black people did to basketball or what minorities did to baseball. I can go on and on.
Every single minute edge and advantage gets absolutely blown out of proportion. It always has and always will. As time goes on it will only become more and more apparent that gender divisions aren't enough. If you want anything resembling fair competition then you will eventually have to completely restructure the way things work
>You're like someone who breaks into someone's house, smashes their TV, and then says "Your TV is terrible. It doesn't even work! You should have bought me a radio instead."
Its more like you have your tv mounted on the wall in a shitty apartment and me walking down the hall causing your tv to fall and shatter, and this not being the first time this has happened to you. You can continue to let your tv shatter into pieces every time somebody stubs their toe on your floor or you can get the fuck up and actually figure out how to do things the right way.
>>14976824
> common sense discussion
There has never in the history of legislation been a time where the side that labelled themselves as "common sense" was actually knowledgeable about the topic or had the right solution to the problem. Plugging your ears and pretending trans people will just vanish into thin air isn't how any of this gets fixed
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>>14976871
>What trans people are doing to sports is no worse than what black people did to basketball or what minorities did to baseball.

What the fuck kind of logic is this? Because blacks were excluded from baseball, men should be allowed to compete against women?

Are you even fucking thinking AT ALL?
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>>14976871
I'm not trying to erase trans people.
I'm stating that trans athletes will never be allowed to compete with the sex they larp as ior have advantages over because of hormones.
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>>14975975
Base Connecticut
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>>14976885
>Because blacks were excluded from baseball, men should be allowed to compete against women?
They aren't "men" and this isn't "because" of anything, I'm simply pointing out that as time goes on people will discover every single way to destroy you with your own system, whether maliciously or by accident. Gender divisions don't serve any purpose and aren't any real way of dividing sports.
I'm saying that when blacks finally entered basketball there were certain subsets of black people that had advantages to such degree that said subset pushed a lot of white people out of the sport. Similarly there is some subset of transwomen that have a competitive advantage against biowomen. Clearly not all transwomen have this advantage or at this point a massive majority of biofem-held records would have been broken by transwomen and there would be more trans-athletes competing. But those transwomen who do have an advantage are enough to show the flaws in gendered divisions.
The question of "who gets to compete" in sports will only get more and more difficult as we figure out ways to optimize the human body and discover prodigal athletes at younger and younger ages. Fix your shit now or wait and watch as somebody else destroys your entire sport decades later and you scramble to figure out patchwork rules to fix the issue for another decade or two.
>>14976892
>I'm not trying to erase trans people
>transwomen are men
huh
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>>14975991
is this a stab at the trannies competing with girls or is it a stap at girls who aren't competing with trannies??
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>>14976966
It's like the rorschach test of lgbt women's high school sports leagues.
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>>14976076
>roided ftms win everything

a roided ftm is still weaker than a roided cis male.
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>>14976975
Mtf's and ftm's should be in a league together.
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>>14975975
lookin kinda based idk
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>>14976754
>all trans people are in a big conspiracy to beat up women
>specifically the phrase "beat up" every time
this again?
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>>14976616
>>14976720
i'm a tranny and i literally hate your type so fucking much. stop acting like you're not amab, stop acting like there's no biological difference between cis and trans women. just shut the fuck up nobody's buying it what fucking game are you trying to play
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>>14977198
>stop acting like you're not amab
Never said I wasn't. I'm not using I as in myself, but I as in a hypothetical individual.
> stop acting like there's no biological difference between cis and trans women
>Similarly there is some subset of transwomen that have a competitive advantage against biowomen
??????
Maybe learn to read before you post? You actual disabled nonce.

Anyways I give a single fuck about whether or not you're trans. Some transwomen have an advantage over women, but thats just one group of people out of the thousand other groups that we haven't figured out will absolutely shitstomp the average athlete. Gendered sports are for dipshits and eventually you're going to run out of ways to patch up genetic disadvantages. We can already see it with how hard africans dominate the fuck out of endurance sports like running. You take no issue with the reality that certain ethnicites just have inborn advantages, but as soon as transwomen want to step up to the plate you're scrambling over your own ass to "preserve fairness" or whatever crock of shit it is today. Even disregarding the obvious bigotry in the ongoing controversy, the obvious fact is still that sports is a genetic game and it will always be a genetic game so long as the sole thing dividing sports is gender, and you're absolutely braindead if you think it will ever be anything other than that.
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>>14977006
>biological males are competing with women!!!!! I don’t care about hormone tests or levels!
>solution: put biological males and biological females together in their own league
Dumdum normie retard logic
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>>14977390
Do you expect better of these people?
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>>14977393
Sigh no
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>>14977390
Crippled AMABs vs enhanced AFABs
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>>14977427
That’s not how things work though. I don’t know why normies can’t just allow trans women if their hormones are a certain female level for a certain amount of time. Females are tested for the same thing, and obviously males too for ftms. Hormones DETERMINE muscle and strength. Your statement isn’t how it works. “Le weakened male and strengthened female” no they are WOMEN and MEN
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>>14976616
They are
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>>14976616
They're male. They'll always be male.
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>>14976720
How about of instead of remaking the entire system we just ban trannies from competing? That would actually fix everything with 0 effort taken.
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>>14976616
You're right, but they're not cis women either. Trans women are trans women.
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>>14977533
Bone structures, increased lung size, etc. make it unfair. It's like doing roids and then cycling off for a test.
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>>14977565
>>14977604
Both incorrect. Trans women are female athletes when they pass the same blood test for athletics that females do!
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>>14976871
Why are trans people so racist and horrible? I constantly see white trans people making crude and disgusting comparisons to racism that they have never experienced. They have no idea and no care how distasteful, petty, selfish and disgraceful it is to compare their own issues to racism. And in spite of black trans people being considerably more at risk of murder and assault than white trans people, they never talk about or care about that.

Why are trans people so racist?
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>>14977628
Bone structure is not winning you a volleyball game or a track run. And i know male rib cages are on AVERAGE larger, but not lungs? Regardless these things could be considered lucky, why must it be boiled down to maleness. Once the hormones are level, everything else is just what it is. No need to associate every freckle on the body with being born male.
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>>14976260
>Get sued for a disgustingly unfair matchup against women
>"BUT LOOK I LOST LOOK LOOK LOOK I DON'T HAVE AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE LOOK LOOK LOOOOOOK"
Why are trans people so deceptive and awful?
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>>14977604
>>14977629
No, things and people are what they are. Trans women are trans women, right? 1+1=2, right?
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>>14977636
This is absolute wilful, ridiculous, emotion-fueled utter nonsense.

Male bodies are consistently stronger than female ones. No matter how many hormones you take, a post-puberty male body will always have an unfair advantage against a female body.

Males have 40% more upper-body strength than women. 40%. Going on Estrogen cannot reverse all of this, or even most of it - no matter your hormone levels, your male body will still retain gains that are impossible for women. Leg-length, bone structure, muscle fibers... all of these have an inherent and unfair advantage. You know this, you're just trying to gaslight women into being walked all over. You also want to erase exceptional women and replace them with mediocre male-bodied people - 1% of cis women are over 6 foot, compared to 30% of men. If people allowed trans women to compete against women, it would only be common sense to fill an entire team with male-bodied people because of the ridiculously higher likelihood of them being advantaged.

"Once the hormones are level, everything else is just what it is" is a malicious lie.
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>>14977581
>That would actually fix everything with 0 effort taken.
Again, as I said earlier, why is it that you have absolutely zero issue with this decade's random minority completely shifting the definition of what a top tier female athlete is buy as soon as trans people come into the picture you have no issue? Sports is fundamentally a genetics game and the handful of transwomen who have the genetic advantages to shitstomp whatever random sport that day are no more or less of a given than some random etheopian swiping gold from everybody else out of the gate. Banning trans people is just removing one element of unfairness, and even then it's a massive overcorrection since its only a small handful of transwomen that break records and they only do so for so long. There are no undefeated transwomen in any sport. Trans people are not some nuclear weapon that instantly clears competition from the field and they are only a problem in the extreme case where poor regulations and that athlete's specific advantages come into play.
Sports when divided solely by gender are inherently unfair. This has always been and will always be the case. If some random asshole who was bred to be a superathlete and trained since birth to dominate their field gives you no pause, and yet shitty regulations letting a transwoman who hasn't been on treatment for very long slips through gets you enraged then the reality is that you don't actually give a flying fuck about fairness in sports and only have beef with the mere existence of transwomen. There is no position you can take where gendered sports are defensible unless your only point of contention is that transpeople breathing air on the same planet as you makes your blood boil.
>>14977630
I'm not trans and I'm not racist. I'm not comparing anything to racism, I'm comparing the small advantage that the random offhand transwoman has to the small inborn advantage that a random handfull of a given race of people may possess.
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>>14977677
You're a gaslighter and a liar, too.
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>>14977677
>If you respond to me with anything less than utter submission on all points, you're a transphobe who was only looking for reasons to discriminate against trans women
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>>14977636
>Bone structure is not winning you a volleyball game or a track run
In the most extreme cases, where everyone is at their absolute peak and the winner is already being determined by genetic advantages? Absolutely.
Although, again, thats only the case in the most extreme examples at the literal highest end of a sport. But when you get to that highest end, and sports are pushing closer to being exclusively about that higher end, it becomes a real issue.
>>14977666
There is no position you can hold where transwomen are men, except for like biological essentialism, but then at that point you'd have already admitted that you give zero fucks about any human trait that isn't explicitly in your DNA and you personally have absolutely zero idea how 99% of that works.
>>14977688
In what capacity? I explained earlier that I'm not trans. So I'm gaslighting about what and I'm lying about what?
>>14977703
Yeah. Pretty much. If your core position is "transwomen have an inherent unfair advantage vs cis women at the highest possible end of sports" then it would make perfect sense to challenge you on why you take issue there but on the exact same issue of racial disparity in performance or disparity in performance due to life advantages you would have nothing to say. If your ultimate goal is to equalize women's sports then advocating for women's leagues but not racial leagues or lifetime leagues is absurd, because I can not only point to greater advantages on those other fronts but more common advantages. There is the occassional handful of transwomen who have been graced by their male genetics to perform better than the equivalent biowoman when all the hormones are right but it is far more often that someone from a certain region of the world will have the right advantage to pull leads in a given sport, or that the woman who's parents have been training them to play this shit since they were in diapers is going to murder the person who just picked it up in middle school
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>>14977750
I didn't say that trans women are men, I said that they are trans women. There are differences between cis women and trans women.
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>>14977786
Fair enough
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>>14977750
You are spouting nothing but lies and bullshit claims, and have responded to the mounds and mounds of evidence with 'No, but that's wrong, because [Insert example of rare and exceptional cis women] exist, therefore biological males who have undergone a male puberty must be allowed to tear women apart'. You have not, for a second, argued in good faith, nor did you ever intend to. You are a racist and a retard, too - you should feel absolutely ashamed of yourself that you'd advocate for kicking racial groups out of sport if trans women can't compete against cis women.

If you aren't trans, what are you? A gay man? A lesbian? I don't believe it any nobody else does either.
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>>14977636
>Bone structure is not winning you a volleyball game or a track run.
lol
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>>14977786
You can't say that, you'll hurt transwomens feelings and make them feel ~invalid~ and that's the only thing that ever mattered here.
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a 5'3 transgirl who transitioned at age 10 and running only on estrogen shouldnt be allowed to compete against 6'5 ciswomen who are pumped full of roids and testosterone
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>>14977868
>transitioned at age 10
Isn't that literally illegal? Puberty-blockers are one thing, but starting estrogen that early sounds like child abuse.

And don't be disingenuous, multiple posters here have specifically referred to the irreversible changes to the human body that male puberty causes. No-one has advocated for roiding females to compensate.
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>>14977629
>be 6'5, 250b dude cycling tren and dbol for 5 years after twenty years of normal male development
>go on t-blockers for a couple months, quit juicing but retain 90% of lifetime development
>pass female bloodtest and destroy female records in every major sporting event
>set weightlifting records that no biological woman will ever touch

I would pay to see this, bitches would be mmaaddd hahahah
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>>14976616
yes they are
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>>14977841
>You are spouting nothing but lies and bullshit claims
I'd firstly like to point out that while you're accusing me of lying or being incorrect, you are just letting it slide that not a single substantive claim has been made against ANYTHING I have said so far.
Secondly,

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/8214295_Y_chromosome_haplogroups_of_elite_Ethiopian_endurance_runners

I can cite things about genetic differences, I can cite things about bone structure, we can go on and on. Genetics very much play a role in sports. If whether or not my body can generate X amount of force in Y amount of time is one of the deciding factors in whether or not I win, then a group or person with an advantage, whether marginal or massive, is going to win more on average. It would seem that race and upbringing are infinitely more impactful on performance than birth gender, but it all can play a role when you play a sport at the utmost highest level.
I don't think transwomen in general are some kind of athletic threat, but the few transwomen who are especially blessed or haven't been on treatment long will definitely outperform in SOME cases than those who aren't. Thats not to say that the genetically gifted transwomen will always outcompete though, since other factors can play a higher role, or those blessings can actually be a disadvantage if you're playing the right sport.
>You have not, for a second, argued in good faith
I've been uprfont and honest since the jump
>You are a racist and a retard, too
Racist? I have no issue with any member of any race, nor harbor any ill will toward any race as a whole. I'm also not white, so at worst all you could possibly accuse me of is being prejudiced, but I'm not even prejudiced because I happily recognize that not all members of a given ethnicity may have whatever ethnic advantage I'm talking about, nor do I think even a majority of any given ethnicity may have it. I believe that most humans are pretty much the same.
1/x
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>>14977948
>I'm also not white, so at worst all you could possibly accuse me of is being prejudiced
Imagine being so much of a fucking racist you genuinely believe it's impossible for you to be racist, holy shit
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>>14975975
I'm a tranner and there's nothing wrong with this decision. My fed, IPF, prohibited trannies to compete against cis women ages ago because we have a very clear advantage.
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>>14977841
>you should feel absolutely ashamed of yourself that you'd advocate for kicking racial groups out of sport if trans women can't compete against cis women.
That's actually not what I'm advocating for. The point of saying "If your ultimate goal is to equalize women's sports then advocating for women's leagues but not racial leagues or lifetime leagues is absurd" is to point out that you cannot argue for removing transwomen from sport for the sake of fairness but not apply the same to other groups. Ultimately I'd like to see sport divided by skill, or at the very least more meaningful groups like height/weight/muscle mass. I don't believe that any race should be segregated in sport, and pointing out that YOU are hypocritical for not arguing for it is a rhetorical position.
Again, sports at the utmost highest level of competition are a genetics game, complaining about one handful of people's genetic advantage is dumb if you're going to ignore some other handful's genetic advantage. The whole system is busted and needs to be restructured. Women are not some weak group of people who can't handle co-ed sports, and I think you would solve this whole thing as well as solving a million other unseen issues if everything was co-ed and just sorted along different lines.
And to reiterate, I do not think all members of an ethnicity have whatever genetic advantage a few athletes of that ethnicity may have, nor do I believe that all transwomen are genetically blessed. I don't even believe a majority are. We're talking about percentages of percentages of percentages here
>If you aren't trans, what are you?
Cis bi PoC amab
>>14977970
Racism is generally agreed upon by most advocacy groups to mean prejudice+power. As in a prejudiced position that then is either supported by institutional powers or can be reinforced by institutional powers that are at your advantaged.
And yes I am aware that racism in the colloquial sense is just generally defined as any racial prejudice.
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>>14977997
Based and common sensepilled
There shouldn't be anything wrong with youngshits competing with cis girls though, right? It's hard to imagine Jazz Jennings having a biological advantage over a cis female.
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>>14978023
>Again, sports at the utmost highest level of competition are a genetics game,
I should rephrase that to say "Sports is a game of upbringing and genetics". Didn't have enough characters in my post. But I do believe that how you were raised, as in having the privilege of playing a certain sport since birth and access to quality coaches and quality nutrition, will be more impactful on the grand scale than genetics, but at the same time it all comes into play.
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>>14978023
It would have been shorter to type 'I hate women and feel 0 shame in making racist issues all about trans people, and am uninterested in fairness or honesty at all provided I get what I want'.
>>
>>14978023
>Racism is generally agreed upon by most advocacy groups to mean prejudice+power.
that is not the definition of racism and appeals to authority are retarded
>well advocacy groups say this is the definition
lmao fuck off and die faggot
>>
>>14978029
Selective policies don't work because they create a lot of loopholes that can be easily abused or exploited. However, there's sports where trannies can compete against women, but those are mostly the ones where men can compete against women as well. For instance, beach volleyball, they have a mixed division there.
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>>14978029
>There shouldn't be anything wrong with youngshits competing with cis girls though, right? It's hard to imagine Jazz Jennings having a biological advantage over a cis female.
the problem is nobody can make that call. it has to be all or none. you really think 'its mam' is going to be told he cant compete but jazz can and wont make a fucking fuss? theres no good way to make that kind of call; no way to keep the rule fairly applied in all cases. the only way for it to be genuinely fair is if no trannys are allowed
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>>14976616
oh wow imagine believing this haha, the absolute delusion

t. mtf
>>
>>14978049
>that is not the definition of racism
wow imagine if you knew how to read
>and appeals to authority are retarded
its not an appeal to authority you fucking mong
I'm not saying "this is the definition because this authority figure said so" I'm saying "this definition is commonly used in these schools of thought I frequent"
and then I literally one line down proceed to explain that I know the definition of racism as you might define it
So not only are you fucking retarded and unable to read, but I'm already fucking aware of any retort you could possibly come back with given that you stumbled over the one fucking line that I literally account for one line down
Jesus christ you people are just unendingly retarded
>>14978042
Wow, crazy that you built up that whole cooly ebin strawman and then don't even bother explaining any of your thought processes.
If you were going to tease me all night then you can at least buy me dinner first
>>14978084
Your opinion is wrong and your personal identity doesn't at all factor into how wrong you are and how wrong I think you are. I've made my postion here very clear
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>>14978097
>your personal identity doesn't at all factor into how wrong you are
>trans people aren't allowed to self identify if it doesn't match up with my very clear position
>>
This whole thread desperately needs citations instead of bullshit asspulled "facts"

>>14977882
It is, and it's happening right now to millions of children around the world. Every child needs to be put on puberty blockers until age 16.
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>>14978097
lmao i read what you fucking wrote i just dont give a shit. you fucking said you weren't racist because you follow some bullshit definition. i said you are racist anyway despite you trying to use that definition; because its a load of shit anyways. i dont care that you acknowledged that it wasnt the actual definition of racism you cant just say "well this is MY definition of racism therefore your claim im a racist is invalid" because youre retarded
>>
>>14978097
paki
>>
>>14978124
>>ethnocentrist
>despite the fact that I've more than recognized that differences in sex and upbringing are exceedingly important
>despite the fact that I literally say that upbringing is likely infinitely more important than gender or ethnic differences
>despite the fact that I outright say that any present ethnic differences are only present in a select handful of a percentage of whatever given ethnicity
k
>I'm pretty sure there are more laws and programs put in place to aid black people than there are to aid whites.
That wouldn't dismiss the hundred other ways black people are disadvantaged currently or the hundred other ways they have been disadvantaged historically that still affect them
>You're a racist.
On what grounds? I'd love to see you prove this one.
Is it because I'm prejudiced? Because I openly said that I hold no biases against any member of any race, and I hold no biases toward any race either.
Is it because I advocate for something racist? Because I directly stated that I don't believe any sport should be segregated by race
So, what do you have beyond rhetoric?
>>14978136
>The schools of thought you frequent are stupid.
What an intellectual powerhouse
>They don't take into account factors like income, for instance
Oh they do. Oprah winfrey, because of her wealth and fame, is for the rest of her life going to be infinitely more privileged than a homeless person. But there are also 829 people way more wealthy than her, and most of them white. Would you say that oprah is more privileged than Jeff Bezos?
>>14978140
>>trans people aren't allowed to self identify if it doesn't match up with my very clear position
That wasn't a statement of self-identification, it was a declaration that all transwomen are men. If that anon personally identifies as a man then more power to them.
>>14978145
Because any way you define gender it is going to be imprecise enough that transwomen easily fit whatever given definition of woman
>>
>>14978062
>>14978080
Isn't saying 'Athlete cannot have gone through a testosterone-induced puberty and must provide medical proof of this' good enough?
>>
>>14975987
not at fucking all. my muscles have not shrunk or any of that hopeful shit since starting hormones. If I went into sports against women, thats like Vegeta going to war with Teletubbies
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>>14978176
>>14978186
>You're a racist
>Also racial slur
I shouldn't even have to explain this one
>you fucking said you weren't racist because you follow some bullshit definition
I said I wasn't racist because by that definition I couldn't be, but I also said that by the colloquial definition I'm not racist either. Again, I would love for any of you intellectual powerhouses to demonstrate how I am in any capacity racist, through either the definition I gave or the commonly understood definition.
>you cant just say "well this is MY definition of racism therefore your claim im a racist is invalid" because youre retarded
Glad to know you can't read
>>14978205
No.
Whatever arbitrary set of traits you select as being the definition of woman is either
A) Going to be a set of traits that a transwoman can easily adopt (I.e: Body shape, attitude)
B)Going to be too precise as to exclude a ton of biowomen from the category of woman (I.E Physical traits exceeding X threshold)
C) Something defined biologically, which is something you likely never in your life have actively measured someone for, thus making the definition completely useless as a non-academic or non-medical term (i.e Chromosomes, Hormones, Brain structure)
>>14978213
And I said that where? In the over 20,000 characters I have posted this thread you have to be able to quote something substantive.
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>>14978198
i dont think that accounts for bone structure or the fact that males are just physically bigger 9 times out of ten. a 6'6" lanklet whos never gone though puberty is still going to demolish a 5'9" women
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>>14978198
While technically it should be, athletes at higher levels, Olympics and shit, have entire countries supporting them. Fabricating docs isn't a problem, heck, there's cases where people's ages were fixed to let compete in different age categories, and that stuff is WAAAAAAY harder to fix than puberty info.
It's a really easily abusable loophole. That's why I mentioned sports where mixed divisions exist, it's the safest route.
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>>14978244
>Maybe the fact that you typed over 20,000 characters is the problem
MAN THAT GOALPOST
I'M GONNA FUCKING NUT OVER HOW HARD YOU MOVED THAT GOALPOST
OHHH YEAH LOOK AT THAT FUCKING GOALPOST SLIDING AROUND LIKE THE DIRTY LITTLE SLUT IT IS
> Brevity is the soul of wit.
Has never been said by anyone with an argument.
If your adhd is too intense for you to read a fucking 4chan thread then maybe trying to argue about complicated social issues isn't something you should try to do. I can't imagine the stroke you'd have if you tried to, gasp, read a book or academic journal
I've been faulted eariler ITT for not giving arguments, so my option is either over-explain and be told I'm wrong, not for lack of logic but for "too many words hurt brain", or I under-explain and then get fucked in the ass because I couldn't explain a critical detail within 4 single-syllable words. Its a catch-22
And yes, most of this paragraph is hyperbole
>At a glance, you just look like an entitled black racist trying to convince people that he's totally not racist
I give no fucks about whether or not people who can't prove their position think I'm the boogeyman of the week. Every argument I've seen about me being racist is low-effort shit written by the illiterate, and the supposed intellectuals here are apparently just too put off by my lots of words to argue their point.
>>14978254
>>14978262
Real intellectual powerhouses over here. I'm really feeling the facts and logic
>>
>>14978283
> if you were born with a penis and gonads, you're either a man or intersex
Firstly, who decides intersex
Secondly,
>C) Something defined biologically, which is something you likely never in your life have actively measured someone for, thus making the definition completely useless as a non-academic or non-medical term
So, of "Women" you've met in your life that you are very confident in calling women, have you checked to see if 100% of those women do or do not possess a cock and/or balls?
If woman is to be a word with a practical definition that can be easily measured then "having a cock" is poor criteria because I can't just check to see who has a dick
Thirdly, How are you defining penis?
>>
>>14978302
I would disagree that white people being overtaken by blacks in sports has been uncontroversial
But again, if the entirety of your position is "I'm okay with getting beaten when my opponent has X biological advantage, but not when they have Y biological advantage" then you're just having a shitfit over arbitrary things, and I would wager that in nine out of ten instances its because the person having a shitfit doesn't like trans people.
Your goal can't be fighting genetic advantages in sports while turning a blind eye to genetic advantages in sports. Either go whole hog or quiet down.
>>
>>14978283
Conversely you can define "man" as "adult human male", except that doesn't fit either because all my secondary sex characteristics are female now. In fact, the terms "male" and "female" are just a shorthand for a collection of sex characteristics, and neither one properly describes my configuration in its entirety. However, it's much closer to "female" than "male" in my case because I have far more female characteristics than male ones, so... you should probably understand that circular semantic nitpicking isn't a very good argument against trans people.
>>
>>14978284
>the supposed intellectuals
nobody is claiming to be an intellectual you brainiac
>>
>>14978336
>and if saying "I'm a woman now!" is enough to let any man inside women's spaces, people will abuse it.
Except it isn't. Any decent sports org is going to require that transwomen competing in women's sports must meet certain hormonal thresholds, and possibly there being an additional time requirement for how long the athlete has been on treatment.
How do you not know this
>>14978341
Cool. Then I don't have to spend time waiting for anyone to magically produce an argument that they never well.
Glad to know that nobody has any arguments.
>>
>>14978347
>Glad to know that nobody has any arguments.
i joined late and cant be bothered to read up your 20k characters when multiple people have already left the conversation saying you're arguing in bad faith. i could contrive a counter point for anything but why would i
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>>14978359
> In daily life we label people according to how they look because checking their genitals isn't practical
Then you're defining woman through what means. If you aren't checking who has a dick then at that point you're taking everyone at their word so long as they pass. In a scenario where you passed a lying transwoman there would never be any effective difference between them and a biowoman.
So then we go right back to this whole shit being arbitrary based entirely on looks
>However, that doesn't mean they get to choose their sex any more than a cancer patient who looks healthy can choose to be healthy
Being healthy is a medical assessment. If you would like to reduce gender to a medical assessment then you're more then welcome to do so but then you erase it as a word with a practical use.
>>14978362
>I'm totally right but I won't prove you right because I'm bored
And yet you give enough of a fuck to keep replying
Why even speak and attempt to make arguments in the first place if you were to lazy to ever back anything up?
>>14978365
I highly doubt that testing is that expensive but if it was then I'm not sure. I guess you just work on an honor system the same way you would do so for people on roids. The obvious people are obvious and anyone who slips by is just a shitty reality of your scenario
The framing of this argument is about legislation though. I'm not sure that policing pick-up games is worth the taxpayer money required
>>14978375
Age is a measurement. Not equivalent
>>
>>14978378
Oh god I completely forgot about the 40,000 cases of men disguised as transwomen having sex with women during female soccer games. How could I be so stupid
Abusers are going to look for any hole in the system. No man is going to go on hormones for 2 years and spend the extra to make sure their dosage fits within league guidelines just to abuse somebody, and the Yaniv's of the world are going to find a way to do abusive shit one way or another. I don't think its worth nationally segregating sports just to avoid the occasional case of abuse.
Practically speaking there is just as little preventing a Yaniv from abusing women with or without regulation. What is regulation going to do that hiding in a locker room or becoming a coach won't overcome?
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>>14978404
>using the wrong 'to'
lmfao. congrats on singlehandedly being so insufferable you killed this thread though. the internet is now reflecting your reality; everywhere you go nobody wants anything to do with you
>>
>>14976966
trannies competing with girls, if you're not good enough to play with the guys you're not going to make it anyway
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>>14978479
If the best you have is a grammatical fuckup then I'll take it as a sign that none of you have anything else of substance.
I could give a fuck about being insufferable so long as I'm correct. I'd rather be right and hated by everyone on earth than wrong and accepted into the flock. Otherwise what's the fucking point of ever bothering to think for myself ever again
>>
>>14978539
Get over yourself you pseudointellectual fuck. People don't like you because you're annoying and whiny, not because they're all sheep.
And you're wrong too btw :)
>>
>>14977639
Because basically all agp/transtrenders suffer from narcissistic personality disorder. They lack social intelligence and have difficulty thinking about things other than attention and self worship.

In contrast, actual transexuals are generally decent people, but they are so rare that their voices are crowded out.
>>
>>14978572
Aaaand the troon goes to adhoms when he gets btfo in an actual argument
>>14978479
>>
>>14977198
Remember that no matter what, you will never pass. You're a man in a dress and a fucking degenerate, please do the world a favor and join the 42%
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>>14978611
Busting out the slurs when you realize you're a fool and everyone knows it. This is objective fact - trans women are barred from competing with cis women for a reason, and no amount of crying and wailing from you will change that.
What a great ally you are.
>>
>>14978572
If I'm wrong then you should easily be able to prove to the class why I'm wrong
>>14978644
If you had any reading comprehension then you would have immediately known that that anon you just responded to isn't me. I'm far too much of a pseudo-intellectual self-fellating fuck to just let you skate by calling you some lameass third grade slur in a 14 word sentence, and then have the gall to fucking quote a post at the bottom of a reply as if formatting can just crawl up my ass and die.
>trans women are barred from competing with cis women for a reason
Yes, the reason is hypocritical bigotry. I'm glad you're finally catching up

Anyways I'm actually out of this thread. If any of you fucks have a half-decent reply then I'll hand deliver your gold star on my ass cheeks
>>
>>14978670
I didn't read half your posts lol
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>>14978628
fucking based
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>>14978539
it has nothing to do with you being right or right; it has to do with the fact that you conduct yourself in such an off putting way nobody even wants to fucking interact with you past four or five messages. because your just a disgusting bad faith arguer nobody is wiling to take the time to interact with you further. you aren't insufferable because your right- i have no idea i legitimately only read starting here with this message
>>14977970
i cant say if your nigger ass is right or not because i havent read any of it. what i can tell you is right or wrong you're an entirely insufferable person with the personality of an extremely narcissistic serial killer. you did not outsmart everyone into leaving the thread, they likely left because they couldn't stand you. they couldn't stand how much of a fucking cunt you are. and if repelling them away means you win then, you win. you can go put someone else through an existential crises then
>>
>>14978684
lmfao neither did i, i legit didn't finish reading half his responses to me
>>
>>14978860
Did you reply to the wrong person? I was the one calling him a racist retard.
>>
>>14978925
no i said i didn't read any of his messages, only read yours calling him a racist. you were not meant to be re summoned here sorry
>>
Where are all of these trans women bullying little girls that people are so afraid of?
>>
>>14976760
>Basically make some kind of scoring system. Like basketball, your height gives you so many points, your wing span gives you so many points, hand size, etc. Each sport would have to actually put effort into figuring out how to award the points. Then you set a cutoff for minor divisions and elite divisions

Wheel chair basketball does something like this, the severity of your disability determines how many points you are worth and a team can only have so many points worth of players on the field at a time.

Some someone who is only missing a foot is worth 4 points but someone who is paralyzed below the chest is only worth 1 point.

It's a great way of letting people of vastly different ability levels all play together fairly.



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