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Why was this pile of shit such an objective failure? Was it sabotage?
>>
>inb4 gunless Britfags sperg out
>>
It may as well have been. It would be better if you could put a name and a face to the failure, like Americans can do with Studler; but the cause of the SA80 seems to be incompetence at the institutional level rather than any one guy secretly sabotaging it.
>>
>>60193576
Fractal incompetence. Every time you zoom in you find out that the clowns are made up of smaller clowns.
>>
>>60193576
Because of your disgusting fart sniffing fetish.
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>>60193576
A program overheaded by people with no experience in small arms and carried out by people who knew they were being fired once it was finished. Even now with the A3 version, with all of the faults ironed out, it's still too heavy for what you get.
I wonder if the replacement will be a bullpup too, just to keep a consistent manual of arms.
>>
>>60193723
Reasonable to assume it will be an AR of some kind, since the replacement program is being conducted by the same people responsible for the commando rifle program which insisted on all entries being ARs. I cant wait for the seethe.
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>>60193766
Loathe as I am to admit it, it makes sense. The AR-ification of all western militaries has been a disaster for small arms aesthetics.
>>
>>60193592
they can't really say anything, they don't own guns
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>>60193576
>use pile of shit
>still win every war
brits are focusing on style points, you wouldn't get it
>>
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A1 was garbage but the A2 was at least fixed into an average assault rifle. Ironic it took the Germans though to fix the L85 for the Brits...
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>>60193723
>I wonder if the replacement will be a bullpup too, just to keep a consistent manual of arms.
The HK416 has been adopted by many branches and units. Royal Marines were the biggest users of the HK416. They're replacing those with Knights Armaments KS-1. The SAS/SBS and special forces support group use a mix of HK416 and Colt C7/C8. The newly formed Ranger Regiment are also getting the KS-1. So I expect in the future as L85s run out of life span they'll be replaced with HK416s, C7s/C8s and the KS-1.
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>>60194401
>>
>>60194413
>newly formed Ranger Regiment
The what now? When did that happen and what rock was I under I wonder?
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>>60194447
Only in the last few years. Basically SFSG was formed out of a need for spec ops capable support for SF missions. Which was usually just assigned to 1 PARA. The Ranger Regiment was formed because the army didn't actually have a special operations capable force (1 PARA weren't SF trained, they were just the angriest blokes in the army to send with the SF when you needed support). While the Royal Marines were a special operations capable force.

So the Ranger Regiment will be to the army, what the Royal Marines are to the Navy. SFSG is a tri-service unit made up of paras, marines and airforce.
>>
>>60193576
British boomers have a weird understanding of trade balance whereby it's fine to outsource all your jobs, but buying foreign goods is unpatriotic. So they privatised the munitions factories, made a new corporation out of them and told them to come up with an assault rifle. Then when it failed they got H&K to redesign it, but they still get to put a "made in UK" stamp on it.
Contrast with pic related that really was made in Britain by a couple of guys in a shed with a lathe and a pot of tea. You can't force innovation.
>t. bong
>>
>>60194503
That was down to the whole Future Force 2020 that the ministry of defence did. "Global Britain in a competitive age" lead to "Defence in a competitive age" and the already exisiting "Future Commando force" and "Future Soldier" plans that happened around a decade ago. The Royal Navy / Royal Marines wanted to move away from their reliance on service wide standard kit, because it was out dated. So if you look at the early FFC materials, they're wearing the newest spec ops kit and are wielding the C7/C8 (not the HK416).

Newly formed regiments and special operations capable regiments and units will be using the C7/C8 and KS-1. The MoD also has a future possibility of buying up to 10k KS-1 rifles, so we'll more than likely see them replacing the L85 in service.

>>60194673
The story of the guys from the MoD coming to inspect their setup to make sure they WEREN'T just a couple of guys in a shed is hilarious. And how they got fucked over when they sourced out some of the component manufacturer when the 3rd party cheaped out and caused the rifles to explode in peoples faces.
>>
>>60193576
I wish they would have abandoned it and modernised their L1A1s instead. Seems like small arms is heading back to higher power cartridges after all.
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>>60194413
>The HK416 has been adopted by many branches and units. Royal Marines were the biggest users of the HK416. The SAS/SBS and special forces support group use a mix of HK416 and Colt C7/C8.
What mirror universe did you just wander in from? Did Nelson Mandela die in the 1980s in your world? The 416 has never been used in any significant capacity by British forces, the closest thing is the 417 getting adopted as a DMR by UKSF but everybody else uses the L129. Royal marines overwhelmingly, even today, use the L85 and in the cases where they got something else, it was a hand-me-down C8.
>>
>>60194447
Really silly name to pick. The UK ranger regiment's role is much more like Green berets.
>>
This gun produces seethe
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>>60195012
RM Commandos already sport the green beret, so couldn't call the new regiment the green berets or there'd have been fisticuffs.
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>>60195249
Its produces mockery, the only seethe comes from bongs desperately trying to defend it out of pointless misplaced patriotism.
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>>60195293
And yet it's more reliable and more accurate than any issue m4/16
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>>60195307
And then you woke up
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>>60195314
Feel free to compare MRBF in all conditions of L85A2/A3 vs any issued M16. Then go compare MOA. You won't like it.
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>>60195333
>accuracy copes
ok thats great, now clear a door or window approaching it from the right, nigel
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>>60195333
Wikipedia says that l85 doesn’t count double feeds in their mean round before failure test. How exactly is anyone supposed to compare the two when there isn’t much accurate information out on the l85
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>>60195333
How will the help when the entire front falls off?
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>>60195367
Because a double feed can be cleared in under a second it’s not really a failure of the gun
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>>60195379
Cope
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>>60195379
Found the guy who doesn't own guns
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>>60195362
Put in on your left shoulder and tilt 45-90', if using the opting you just shift it forward and inch or so, usually onto your webbing.

>>60195367
If you're counting stoppages in MRBF you've failed to understand what the F stand for. A gas piston weapon will clearly have fewer stoppages than a DI one, in every climate.
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>>60195393
>just do an unnatural dance to use the rifle normally
No
>>60195393
Every other MRBF test I’ve seen counted stoppages. I wonder why the wacky accounting methods were used for the l85
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>>60195387
>The L85A2 rifle has an impressive MRBF rate of 25,200 mean rounds between failures. For the M16 rifle, during tests conducted in 2005 and 2006, the newer models (which would include various versions like the M16A4) were found to fire approximately 5,000 rounds between stoppages. These figures suggest that the L85A2 has a higher reliability rate compared to the M16 when considering the mean rounds between failures.

Suicide watch.
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>>60195400
Again one counts double feeding and the other doesn’t. You’re just embarrassing yourself now
>>
The best way to figure out which gun is better is to see its adoption rates. If foreign militaries are likely to buy one rifle over the other it means that the rifle being exported more is better.
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>>60195402
Except AR15 went through the same testing methods, i've highlighted it's score. (You won't like it)

Remind me who is coping? Seems like i'm fucking your face with my big dick of data.
>>
>>60195407
>of the 9 failure stoppages
>no mention of the m4 whatsoever
LMAO. The l85 failed 9 times during the test
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>>60195407
Point to where it says ar15s went through the same test and they didn’t just use numbers from previous, properly performed tests.
>double feeds don’t count
Cope
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>>60195412
>AR15 had twice as many in same testing
Oh man this is bad for you, How will you get out of this hole?
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>>60195416
In Oman.
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>>60194341
I mean you had Mauser-ification of many militaries in the 1890's, but then people diversified again. You'll get military aesthetic back, but only once something comes and displaces the status quo.
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>>60195432
Yeah this is propaganda because the soldiers thought the l85 was bad. It even states the objective is to dispel the notion that the l85 was unreliable. Completely disregarded
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>>60195393
>put your rifle in a retarded, unstable position and still risk getting a faceful of charging handle and brass in your cheek if you do this incorrectly during the stress of a firefight
my point is that bullpups are shit and its not just an SA80 problem
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>>60195438
Nope, it's hard data. I've just raped you with it and cum all over your face with numbers. Don't cry, stop trying to cope.
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>>60195450
It’s not hard data. It was a confidence test conducted in 2002 because the British troops didn’t trust their main service rifle, and now that it was proven to be skewed it’s totally irrelevant
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>>60195449
>a faceful of charging handle and brass in your cheek

It's clear you've never held an L85 let alone looked through the backup/close combat sights. You have to life your cheek, your chin will be on the cheek pad and your face will be totally out of the way.
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>>60195458
It’s clear you’ve never held a gun other than the l85
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>>60195454
>and now that it was proven to be skewed

now THIS is cope. That 47% really hurt huh? I'm done fucking you, you can clean yourself up and dry those tears you little DI twink.
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>>60195458
>It's clear you've never held an L85 let alone looked through the backup/close combat sights
yes and thank god for that. which (logistics) unit were/are you in then, mr ally?
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>>60195469
>9 stoppages
See soldiers, if you just ignore the stoppages we have a reliable weapon!
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>>60195480
No wonder, this dude has nothing to compare it to
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>>60195487
i've shot both an AK and an AR15 left handed when on holiday in a country with non-retarded gun laws, and i didnt need to do mental and physical gymnastics to not get a forced dentist visit like i would have with an L85
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>>60195503
>if I make up scenarios that never happened it will lend credence to my argument
Damn the same thing happened to me when I was shooting l85s in Oman on my MEU. It was just so… unnatural
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>>60195432
>soldiers see the l85 as shit
>this upsets the government
>bong government devises a confidence test
>stated goal of convincing the troops the l85 isn’t unreliable because they think it is unreliable
>don’t count most common failure, a failure to feed
>don’t test it against any other weapons just use figures from tests conducted by other agencies
>conduct a survey right after
>100% of soldiers polled now think it’s reliable
The line between bongs and vatniks grows thinner everyday
>>
Based service rifle realist
>>
Was it retardation
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>>60194352
It’s this
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>>60193576
Still going on about the SA80 like this in 2023 is like if you were still going on about how much of an unreliable piece of shit the M16 is as if you were still dropping napalm on gooks in Vietnam.
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>>60193576
Designed by a committee of 11 men, only 4 of whom have even fired a rifle before. Numbers may be off but you get the gist. There was some other stuff, such as the general incompetence in British industry at the time (look at what happened to British Leyland) but that's the main issue. Let's also take some time to appreciate that despite being the first of the 'gen 1' bullpups out the door, the Steyr AUG was the only one to achieve significant export sales and is obviously the best design out of them despite the quirks.

>>60194673
AI is what happens when Norf DC chads build a rifle, the SA80 is what happens when posh southern poofs try to build things with their soft remoaner hands.

>>60195333
Sauce?

>>60195400
MRBF and MRBS are two different things.

>>60195435
Designing a bullpup as we speak. I will personally destonerize the industry.
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>>60195503
Ay remoaners,

Why go the dentist to get your teef pulled when you can just blast a paki with your L85?

Fort so.

-Sgt. Baz
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The British are so antigun they can't even make guns so they came begging LMT and KAC to make them

I won't lie I'm a bit envious you all get such gucci as issue
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>>60195307
>and many more fun jokes you can tell
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>>60193766
We need some American fuckery, stat!
Right as all of our allies go for the AR format, America should adopt a bullpup, chambered in .280 but change the case dimensions slightly and call it the .280 American.
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>>60193576
>Design by committee
>An old and ossified development branch that hadn't kept up with the times.
>They told everyone making them they would be laid off after it was done.

It's as if they tried to get as many things wrong as possible. Its design was clearly made in a vacuum. It's behind other bullpups that came out a few years before. It looks archaic compared to the AUG for example. And Enfield closing down after doing the run is classic British military procurement mismanagement. I forget who said it but I remember one historian saying the British became an empire in spite of their government. Not because of it.
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>>60195469
This has to be a troll right? Nobody is the stupid surely.
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>>60196536
>It's behind other bullpups that came out a few years before
This is a common theme in domestic British gear. The most notable case of this happening was with the warrior of course but also brimstone and starstreak to a lesser degree
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>>60193576
did the l85 fuck ur mom warriorfag?
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>>60196580
Surely this post that didn’t raise the poster count will stem the laughter at the L85s expense
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>>60196584
it actually did thought, curious it didnt raise when you posted however
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>>60196591
>no u
>doesn’t offer proof
oh man this dude is fuming
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>>60193723
>it's still too heavy for what you get.
You're desperate to find flaws.

>>60194401
>The Germans
Bait.

>>60195012
No not really, that niche is filled by the Marines and paras. Ranger regiment is primarily about training up foreign allies and being a kinda permanent forward deployed force. Look at the contributing regiments, no one special is in there.
>>
>>60193576
>>objective
Faggot ass retards found a new way to spout opinion as fact preemptively while claiming the high ground
Objectively you suck cock. And not very well at that.
>>
>>60196619
>heavy and awkward with a terrible center of gravity is actually good
Mindbroken
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>>60194755
The L1A1s were getting clapped out. One of the big reasons for replacing them was regiments were finding out that teaching marksmanship with a knackered gun is impossible.
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>>60196657
>Oh no the center of gravity!
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>>60196619
>that niche is filled by the Marines and paras
Marines. Paras are just airborne.
>Look at the contributing regiments, no one special is in there.
If that's the case the only ones worth a shit in the SFSG are the Marines since they're the only ones that have a history of being special operations capable as the paras are nothing more than airborne and the RAF is the RAF. Fuck the training they receive as part of SFSG. They're just 1 PARA with a company of Royal Marines slapped on.
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>>60196569
>Warrior
Its older than Bradley so I can excuse it for being worse. I can't excuse the Brits for failing to replace it with something better
>brimstone
Yeah that's just hellfire but they wanted to make their own for some reason.
>starstreak
Its interesting. I think SACLOS MANPADS are in general silly. A Stinger is much easier to train someone on. But they are effectively jam proof which is neat. And when they do hit a target they kill them dead.

If I look back over the last 100-200 years, the British have never been at the front of firearms development. The Brown Bess was alright and contemporary. But the P52 was a few years behind the curve even though it was fine. Things get worse past that. The Schneider and Martini-Henry were obsolescent when introduced and stayed around way too long. The Lee-Metford and Enfield could have been a big deal if doctrine allowed them to be used as designed. But the magazine was a waste and 303 was a mid cartridge. P-14 would have been good but wasn't adopted. EM-2 is a meme and never actually worked. L1A1 is just an FAL. I can't point to any rifle and say here the British had the best rifle in the world even for a brief period. For all the other major armies I can say that at least once.
>>
Genuinely how do you fuck up an AR-18

It is literally so retard proof eastern europeans have made them woth zero NATO experience
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>>60196580
Is warriortard in the room with you right now?
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>>60196608
very good very nice warriortard, nice little jab that took a whole 2 posts to bear fruit, shame you coudlnt have actually replied to a actual recurrng poster and instead on my first post in the thread; although it does make sense as 97% of the other posters are you. shame you blew your load too quick im sure next thread youll be able to deliver that slam dunk your looking for
>>
>>60196841
god i was already replying to you you didnt have have to bump the thread and beg for me to respond to ur amazing gotcha you insufferable cunt
>>
>>60196619
>You're desperate to find flaws.
I'm a bong too anon. The gun is heavier than it's contemporaries and offers little in return. It's not nearly as bad as many make it out to be (at least speaking for the A2 and A3) but it's hardly a competitive rifle.
>>
>>60196766
>Its older than Bradley
The Bradley entered service 4 years prior to the warrior you retard. I know, I was just as shocked as you when I found out
>>
I still want one.
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>>60193576
The elcan is great and the gun is quite accurate from what I’ve heard, but that’s all it has going for it. The gun has fragile bits, it’s heavy, it’s overly complex, the trigger is atrocious even by bullpup standards, the ergos are the worse of any rifle I’ve ever used, and the stock sucks only second to the shitty 416 factory stocks. I only have roughly 2 mags through one (50-56ish rounds iirc) and have field stripped and reassembled one, but it seems as bad as people say. Even in my low round count I had a double feed and the second mag I inserted fell out due to user error, but still that’s bad because I have only ever had that happen on a saiga 9 (which you should pull the bolt back while inserting a full mag).
>>
>>60193576
It failed because Britfags dont even know how guns fucking work and have so little gun culture they don't even know how to ergonomics. That thing looks like shit.
>>
>>60196924(me)
It also somehow had the worse recoil impulse of any ar-18 family of weapons that I have ever fired, which is strange for a bullpup. I believe I handled an a2
>>
>>60196875
Ah I misread wikipedia. I thought it was introduced in the 70's. You're right. I take that back. Its shit.
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>>60195469
You've probably never even held either weapon
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>>60196619
buckbroken brit. Post your gun and well continue this debate
>>
Holy shit bongs are fragile. They just mass reported the Royal navy sub fuckup thread. Ladies and gentleman we found another insecurity
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>>60197080
QRD
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>>60197099
A depth gauge on a Royal navy sun was reading inaccurately and it resulted in the sub being a lot deeper than the captain thought. Eventually an engineer who isn’t involved with piloting the sub noticed a backup gauge reading a different depth and alerted the captain. It’s hard to believe but a royal navy sub was operating at the wrong depth for an unspecified length of time
>>
>>60197099
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/20/royal-navy-nuclear-submarine-gauge-malfunction/
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>>60197128
>>60197156
How the duck did they let this happen? Operating at the wrong depth for any amount of time is a big no no
>>
>>60197156
>Originally reported by the sun
>The Sun is not naming the sub or the depths involved for security reasons.
This is like when the Daily Mail has "insider info" from "uk special forces" about some bullshit. Nobody can tell them to reveal their sources. And the British government doesn't comment on special forces operations. British special forces operatives are contractually obliged to keep state secrets and the only thing as secretive as our special forces, is what our nuclear deterrent is doing.

The Sun is an even bigger shit rag than the Daily Mail and I'm not surprised the Torygraph would regurgitate something they posted with nothing from the government backing it up.
>>
>>60197128
Reminds me of the gauge in one of their old planes that would occasionally spray pilots in the face with ether.
>>
>>60197189
> I don’t like the source!
well sucks for you then
>>
>>60193576
I dunno bros I just like it
>>60193592
I mean if nobody has actually held it or shot it then all opinions are equally worthless
>I'm a noguns at home but I shoot locally
>>
>>60197189
The sun has "a naval source". I'm sure Westminster would love to know what absolute fucking mong is leaking information about nuclear submarines.
>>
>>60197189
>no no no no no this can’t be happening oh my god
>>
>>60197207
Of course they’d want to know, they are a notorious nanny state
>>
>>60197225
Grow up.
>>
>>60196766
the brimstone doesn't have a single component that's the same as the hellfire, and it's a radically different missile in every way. They basically started with the same outer shape. It's built around punching high velocity holes in vehicles without inflicting collarteral damage, it's it's own weird thing. You can knock out a vehicle in a parking lot without damaging the cars around it
>>
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It smells of brap here, did another of his threads blow up in his face again?

Alright lets delve in!
>Outed himself as poor
Factory worker with a toolbag from Amazon, got caught replying to himself about his cool bag ($15 amazon) Tradies bullied him really bad.
>Doxxed his own wiki
Got caught editing to Bradley wiki and outed himself as Loafiewa, profile lists as Autistic loner. Change the location to Kent to cover his tracks.
>Doxxed his own Twitter
Filled with posts asking Jake Paul to notice him, posting fart fettishes and asking if other people can fart on command also looks at male dicks and wants to move to Canada.
>Posts his wifes OF images and requests
Shes a fat prostitute thats forced to sell her self online
>Posts fat out of shape Dog
Basically animal cruelty in an image, it was fat and pathetic resembling a wooden beer barrel.
>Has been obsessed with the British and the mighty Warrior for over 6 years
Guess Jake Paul isnt the only one he wants to notice him.

Try not to be mean to this anon, hes the most pathetic poster here. Who else could spare 8 hours a day for the past 5 years?
>>
>>60197238
It only has different specs on paper. It’s only ever been used in a hellfire role in practice. Another complete bust
>>
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Has anyone noticed that when the war gets particularly bad for Russia, anti-bong threads spike?
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>>60197261
They're still mad we made medals out of their captured cannons.
>>
>>60196766
that's never really been the bong thing really. The bong thingis to be good at a lot of things with a quite wide remit and then insert their algo fingers into all the pies by making everyone rely on lots of niche bong technology. Cumulatively, bongland produces quite a lot of military technology but basic firearms are not the leading thing.

That said Accuracy International produce good shit
>>
>>60197267
That's why the Chinese hate us too. That and the opium thing.
>>
>>60197261
Armatard doing his best paying jpb.
>>
Aren't the literal best shotguns and hunting rifles made by bespoke bong gunsmiths?
>>
>>60193576
For the N+1 time.
>Design rushed after American corruption and NATO STANAGs force Britain to drop the design for a rifle they'd actually been working on for years and wanted to adopt.
>RSAFE (Royal Small Arms Factory, Enfield) was told that they'd be shut down immediately after they finished the contract, leading to workers really not giving much of a shit about the quality of their work.
>Rifle was designed (in a rush) with the assumption that it would be needed for a Cold War scenario in Western Europe, not for playing around in the sandbox
given that it's a small miracle the damn thing didn't blow up with every fifth shot, and considering that the A2 build of the weapon (where they actually had the time and money to start unfucking the problems with the rushed A1 design) was at its worst just a little bit heavier than you'd want it to be should be enough to put this old meme to bed - but if you want to keep pretending that the problems the gen 1 M16 had in Vietnam means that modern day M4s are worthless shit then don't let me stop you being retarded.
>>
>>60197286
No. Also that wouldn’t be relevant to the L85
>>
>>60196851
honestly bruv, at this point there must be half a dozen people pretending to be warriortard
>>
>>60197309
How many AR-15s gets sold for £300,000 pounds at auction?
>>
>>60197321
At least 60% of warriortards are bongs. You are not special.
>>
>>60197321
I knew warriortard was a self hating bong
>>
>>60197066
>Post your GUNZ
Difficult as it's currently business hours on the east coast and, as you know, posting a gun w/o timestamp is meaningless.

Not everyone who calls out bullshit has an ulterior motive.
>>
>>60196868
I'm not a "bong" and complaining that a rifle with a 20" barrel weighs more than a carbine is fucking retarded.
>>
>>60197376
>he couldn’t post guns
>he’s not allowed to run to his car during working hours
You don’t have guns
>>
>>60197254
what the fuck is this retarded shit? It's a completely different missile, it physically doesn't have anything in common with the hellfire. Comparing the Brimstone to the Hellfire is like comparing a cheesegrater to an ostrich, they are completely different things with completely different mission profiles.
For one, the brimstone is to be fire from fast jets, something the hellfire can't do
Secondly, the brimstone has like 7 times longer range, uses dual guidance, is designed to be carried and fired in large salvos and as mentioned previously carries a dinky warhead more in line with a HEAT jet, rather than a general high explosive warhead.
The phyiscal tube all of this sits in does look a little bit like the hellfire
>>
>>60197383
You absolutely are a bong simping for the worst bullpup and the 20” L85 is really heavy and unwieldy
>>
>>60197396
Yes, as I said, I am at work and do not have any firearms at me. How is repeating what I said back to me supposed to be a gotcha?
>>
>>60197383
Sorry if your not a bong and have never even touched an sa-80 your cope will be immediately disregarded
>>
>>60197321
i can see you in the reflection pookie
>>
>>60197329
A fair bit of full auto NFA items go that high, mostly nam era ARs
>>
>>60197427
It’s because you’re a British person LARPing as a hasguns American. No american goes to work without at least one gun in the car.
>>
>>60197419
>and the 20” L85 is really heavy and unwieldy
Is this bait? It's about as long as a carbine while having a 20" barrel and is roughly 2 pounds heavier than an m16a4. Oh, no, two pounds, the weight of a hefty burrito!
>>
>>60197448
Valiant attempt nigel
>>
reminder warriortard is a mind broken esl and any posts in any thread trying to pretend like its common knowledge that warriortard is a bong are false flags
>>
>>60197430
>Cope
What cope?

>>60197441
You got nothing so now you're rambling about some irrelevant bullshit.
>>
>>60197452
2 pounds is roughly 20% heavier so yes that’s bad
>>
>>60197476
>Oh no! TWO POUNDS!
Trade-off for having a full length barrel in a carbine length.
>>
>>60196868
yeah the fact the rifle weighs so much and also had to be redesigned at great expense rules it out as being a good example of a service rifle.
I mean in the end it was [fine], the soldiers don't seem to mind it and some I've spoken to felt it was good for accuracy compared to using the M4, all of them are trained to be able to sprint around carrying it, etc. But the fact remains they could have just had a better rifle.
>>
When the French were looking into replacements for the FAMAS they considered the VHS-2 and were the Germans not pressuring for the HK416 it would have been adopted as it shared a large amount of features and had a similar manual of arms. If the Bongs had given up on the L85 too and decided to replace it with another country's bullpup, that had similar ergonomics and design, what would they have picked? F2000? Aug?
>>
>>60197238
Anon, I didn't claim they used the same components. I claimed the Brits invented their own equivalent of an existing missile for no reason. Brimstone is not literally a hellfire. But it fills the same role and has similar performance and features. Just like storm shadow/scalp is like JASSM.
>>
>>60197489
Damn thats cool, a full length barrel with carbine length, i bet no other gun can do that
>>
>>60197489
Terrible trade off. Also you compared the weight to the m16a4 not the m4 for a reason
>>
>>60197532
Yes. I compared two 20" rifles for a reason.
>>
>>60195400
checks out
in eight years of using the A2 I've only had stoppages once and it was the magazine at fault as it had been damaged and was incorrectly feeding the rounds
>>
So. It was Bexley. All this time and you're only 30mins away from me.
>>
>>60197541
Yeah and the m4 handles better because it’s so much lighter with better ergos
>>
>>60197586
And the l85 has a 20" barrel. Life is about tradeoffs.
>>
>>60197551
This is just a made up reply
>>
>>60197620
whatever cope you want to believe
the magazine was bent at the front and when the bolt was coming forward the round wasn't clearing the magazine and it was pushing the bullet back into the cartridge and causing a stoppage, done it a three times before we figured out it was the mag
was funny looking at the target afterwards, as the rounds were clearly tumbling in the air and they three of them had left perfect sideways silhouettes of the round in the target
the weapon was very reliable
>>
>>60197551
In 9 years my m4 never faltered. Even with the magazines never had a double feed.
>>
>>60197655
Someone told you adding more detail to the story would make it more believable. That wasn’t the case here, I can still tell you’re just outright making up your experience to lend credibility to the cope confidence test
>>
>>60197663
This is just a made up reply
>>
>>60197681
>sharing an interesting anecdote is whatever cope you just came out with
sure buddy
keep telling yourself that
>>
>>60196272
Seriously, which gun autist was in charge of the KS-1 adoption? KAC rifle and suppressor, meme 13.7 barrel, 1-10 Vortex HD Gen III, 12 O'clock Acro, clip on thermals. Considering how retarded the majority of Bongs are on the internet when talking about small arms, they're the last country I would expect to adopt such a gucci meme package.
>>
>>60197681
Warriorfart in full damage control
>>
>>60197700
>Considering how retarded the majority of Bongs are on the internet when talking about small arms,
You never been to a public range, have you.
>>
>>60197750
Public ranges are made up of the general populace, not people autistic enough to argue about service rifles on the internet.
>>
>>60193576
Br*tish "KNOW HOW" and bullpup made for a perfect storm of shidding and farding their pants.
>>
>>60197700
>Seriously, which gun autist was in charge of the KS-1 adoption?
Probably the Royal Marines since they were looking to go in a completely different direction than the British Army first and were trialing (and using) the C8. Which was already in use in limited numbers with UKSF, SFSG and Royal Military Police close protection units. 43 Commando ditched the L85 for the C8 back in 2016. I'm guessing the benefits and advantages of the platform and the accessories you can slap on them won out.
>>
>>60197527
no, it continues to not fill the same role.
Look, when you grow up, you'll learn its not actually serving your own interests to continue to cling to some dumb comment you made about something before you knew better.
It doesn't have any features in common at all. Everything is different, warhead, guidance, purpose, range, platforms that carry it.
What exactly is this factor that they have in common?
>>
>>60197527
>having 7 times less range is similar performance
>>
>>60197833
This it’s not the same. The brimstone is to the hellfire what the JASSM is to the stormshadow. Longer range, data link, just all around better
>>
>>60197872
That range is only from an air launched jet. From a helicopter the ranges are much closer. I’m surprised you didn’t know that
>>
>>60197655
How would the magazine bend in such a way that the bolt wouldnt clear it anon

It uses stanag, this couldnt be a magazine design problem
>>
>>60197833
WTF are you talking about Anon?
>Everything is different
Very similar actually
>warhead
Which one? Hellfire has multiple. But one of them is a tandem HEAT warhead just like brimstone
>guidance
Hellfire has had many over the years. The newer ones use millimeter wave just like Brimstone
>purpose
Lightweight air to ground missile they weigh within a few pounds of each other. And the length and diameter are also very close.
>range
Low tens of kilometers for both. Varies based on launch platform.
>platforms
Jets, Helos, Drones and ground launch for both. The specific platforms vary but that has more to do with operational needs of the force using it. The UK operates aircraft the US doesn't but if they had adopted hellfire they would have integrated it with the same platforms they put brimstone on.
> Look, when you grow up, you'll learn its not actually serving your own interests to continue to cling to some dumb comment you made about something before you knew better.
This is projection.

Also worth noting both are being replaced by the newer and more capable JAGM.

>>60197917
Hellfire is comparable to Brimstone in the same way the JASSM is comparable to Storm Shadow. They fill a similar operational need and end up with many similar design choices. Storm Shadow is the less capable of the two because it lacks the data link JASSM has. IIRC it was considered but dropped for cost reasons. Bong own goal once again.
>>
>>60198085
>Storm Shadow is the less capable of the two because it lacks the data link JASSM has. IIRC it was considered but dropped for cost reasons
It also has a much shorter range when fired from from the same altitude. JASSM-ER can go a whole lot further
>>
>>60198126
Yeah I don't think its fair to compare it to JASSM-ER. JASSM baseline is more fair. Have they done an ER version of storm shadow/scalp?
>>
>>60197519
Frog here, this is completely wrong. The main factor in choosing the HK416 was the fact that the french SF were already operating the HK417 as they had purchased 1,800 of them for use in Afghanistan and liked the system very well. The SF guys had been converting to the AR15 for some time as well, while simultaneously using a ton of HK guns for a while. Lastly, H&K manufactures the barrels of almost all of its firearms from french made steel bars forged by the Aubert & Duval company since the 1970s so there were guaranteed economic returns.
The VHS2 ended second during the AIF, for Arme d'Infanterie Future, competition in 2016 due to its own qualities, which had not a lot to do with the fact it vaguely ressembles a Famas, of which it shares none of the controls anyway. The french evaluation team just really liked the gun.
>>
>>60198147
Why not? ER has the same exact dimensions. It just has a more efficient motor. Would be weird to not compare the two
>>
>>60198171
The post that annihilated nigel
>>
>>60198171
Mostly because AGM-158A and Storm Shadow are contemporaries developed around the same time to meet the same goal. AGM-158B was an upgrade at a later date to improve performance. The way they did it was straight forward so I have no doubt that the Euros could have done similar if they wanted. They either didn't have the cash or didn't feel the need. Its accurate to say that AGM-158B is better in pretty much every way. But that's not an indictment on Storm Shadow. Its a criticism of Bong and Frog procurement that they couldn't be bothered to keep up.
>>60198222
I'm an American faggot. Pretty sure >>60197833 is a bong though.
>>
>>60193576
Why don't they just unbullpupify it?
>>
>>60194503
>>60196619
They should have just brought back the British Army Commando units instead of making up a new Ranger regiment.
>>
>>60198240
They don’t know how
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>>60198238
Man I love a good concession
>>
Warriortard your mums fat lmao
>>
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>>60198240
Here you go Anon
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>>60193576
Alot of industrial sabotage happens in the weapons industry, especially around military small arms, alot of its competition among gun companies.
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>>60198533
I would use this cope as well if my countries bullpup rifle was notoriously bad.
>>
>>60198071
it was the front of the magazine, I don't know the terminology
the panel on the side where the tip of bullet is, was bent in at the top from obviously being bashed before or something
when the magazine was trying to feed the rounds in this little bit bent in was catching the tip of the round and preventing it from fully entering the chamber so when the bolt came forwards it was pushing the cartridge and the bullet was getting pushed back further into the cartridge damaging the round
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>>60198071
He’s never held a gun he doesn’t know what he’s talking about
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>>60198071
>>60198672
to clarify the part I mean it was this, the bolt was clearing it that wasn't the issue
because of the damage to the mag here it wasn't fully feeding so the round was being caught between the mag and the cycling bolt causing the damage to the round and the stoppages
>>
>>60198714
All credibility is already lost
>>
>>60197448
The posts would be so much more believable if they acknowledged how one of warriortard's trope is false flagging and pretending to be one of his mnay haters, strangly these posts never even scrape this topic.
>>
>>60196455
Kek.
It would cause a generation of seething
>>
>>60194401
>. Ironic it took the Germans though to fix

You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

The A2 was fixed by H&K.
But H&K was a wholly-owned subsidiary of BAE Systems, and the work on the A2 was undertaken in Lenton, Nottingham.
The staff there were almost universally British, ex Royal Ordinance engineers, the company was British owned, the work was done in the UK. At no point was it "the Germans".


(if you're a nerd, the exact location of the H&K facility was a very bland warehouse literally around the corner from the HQ of "Games Workshop", with a great big imperial eagle on the front of the building. Local taxi drivers called it "the nazi building". if only they'd known about the real guns being made next door.)
>>
>>60199103
just adopt a modernised version of the EM2 and the British military / walts would have an aneurysm.

... actually, I do 3d modelling. I'm now thinking it would be fucking hilarious to model up a photorealistic EM2 with modern rails etc, and post it up as the US' next service rifle and sit back and wait for the screaming.
>>
>>60193576
The original A1 version was a bullpupped AR-180 made by a factory who's staff had no experience, all done for the lowest attainable price. It was obviously dogwater.

The A2 was fixed by H&Ks UK branch (the UK branch of a German company which was at the time owned by UK interests, I smell tax fuckery) and was actually good in all areas the A1 sucked, with the exception of weight. She was and remains a heavy bitch. This was not helped by the needless addition of a Yankee style quadrail, which was the style at the time.

The A3 I know nothing about, too modern for me to enjoy, you should ask a younger autist to hear about that.
>>
>>60199268
>The A2 was fixed by H&Ks UK branch (the UK branch of a German company which was at the time owned by UK interests, I smell tax fuckery) and was actually good in all areas the A1 sucked, with the exception of weight. She was and remains a heavy bitch. This was not helped by the needless addition of a Yankee style quadrail, which was the style at the time.

The A2 fixed the reliability issues of the A1 but did not resolve the other issues with the rifle like ergonomics, mediocre accuracy and lack of modularity. Weight is an overstated issue with most rifles. Balance is more important. I've never handled an SA80 because the brits didn't export them but most bullpups balance OK. Not great but OK.

Ultimately the L85 is 1950's technology made in the 1980's. Its a stamped steel receiver and poorly executed AR-18 system that doesn't incorporate any of the lessons from contemporary assault rifles at the time of its design. In some ways its a step backwards from the EM-2.
>>
>>60199305
>mediocre accuracy

This has literally never been a complaint about A2, the British army had to bring in entirely new shooting standards because accurate fire at 600m was now possible.
>>
190 posts of horse shit.
>>
>>60199423
Love how fragile you are
>>
>>60199305
>Has never used L85
>Let me tell you about L85
How about no?
>>
>>60199305
Accuracy was never an issue, they shoot good, they always have.
Ergonomics were mid, I'll give you that, selector lever is in the wrong place, and no left handed shooting. You could argue that the lack of an easy way to drop the magazine is a flaw for high speed types, but it isn't that kind of rifle.
Balance was never an issue, at least in my experience. In the shoulder it feels good, doesn't strain the body in any unnatural way. Weight was annoying, you learn to hate the thing after carrying it over any appreciable distance.

Otherwise I agree with most of your post.
>>
>>60199497
Ah shit I forgot the one thing.

Modularity is total fucking bullshit marketing nonsense arsefuck. Every fucking procurement arm of every fucking military goes "oh look how modern it is, its like a legos, we can change it to suit the needs of the mission blah blah blah gargle gargle slurp slurp".

What happens in reality is that the object stays in its original fucking configuration for its entire fucking service life because nobody can be fucking bothered to constantly disassemble and reassemble their shit, and 90% of infantry soldiers can't be trusted to to break or lose the fucking pieces.

Fuck modularity.
>>
>>60199305
>mediocre accuracy
Weak bait.
>>
>>60199485
I’ve used it and it is pretty bad
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>>60199604
It isn’t known to be very accurate so mediocre makes sense in this case. The rifle itself is plenty accurate it’s just the long spongy trigger pull that can’t be fixed. Transfer bar. No getting around the transfer bar
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>>60199610
I've used it as well and it's alright. It's accurate and reasonably reliable and in my oh so important and valued opinion that is all an infantry rifle really needs to be. Could it be better? Of course it could, but it isn't bad, just mid.
>>
>>60199610
I used it more than you and it was fine
>>
>>60199305
Of all the things you could have chosen to gripe about and you picked accuracy, one of the few things even the original gun was actually very good at.
>>
>>60199626
>no getting around the transfer bar

Training issue, squeeze evenly and firmly as when stroking a cat until the trigger breaks. If you were focused properly on your hold and sight picture then it should surprise you slightly when it does finally break but accuracy will be good.

How a trigger feels to the shooter is in my humble opinion massively overstated by the YouTube crowd. Proper adherence to marksmanship principles and the reliable drilling of your movements are key.

90% of the time, with 90% of rifles, the rifle is more accurate than you are. These figures rise to 100% when you are being shot at, for obvious reasons.
>>
>>60199626
You know how people moan about the gun weighing a ton? A large part of why is it has a very heavy barrel, which while a pig to lug around makes the gun very accurate.
>>
Anyone who hasnt shot an L85 isnt qualified to comment, change my mind.
>>
>>60199684
Training won’t make the transfer bar not a problem.
>>
>>60199721
And anyone who has shot an l85 isn’t qualified to comment on any other gun. Change my mind
>>
Actually I designed the LA85 as a joke and pitched it to the UK military, I was shocked when they told me it was great and they bought it.
So yes it is the worst rifle ever.
>>
>>60199728
git gud
>>
>>60199837
Transfer bar. LMAO
>>
>>60198875
the part where I proved that I am a bong doesn't sway you? Or do you now just think warriortard has outed himself as a bong? I dont get it .
maybe the "trope" is just people trolling, impossible on 4chan I know
>>
>>60199423
Post guns
>>
>>60198520
man I really like it
>>
>>60199728
With correct training, the transfer bar is not a problem. It is a nitpick, and frankly the rifle has other more valid nitpicks, such as the gas key being able to be inserted in an incorrect way that requires the front sight to be removed in order to rectify it.
>>
>>60194385
>Winning the wars
Which ones?
Afghanistan and gulf war and iraq dont count because you didnt do 80-90% of the work
>>
>>60199937
Well I don’t and my opinion holds more weight on this board
>>
>>60199970
Because you're mentally ill?
>>
>>60199929
Maybe it was something to do with how warriortard makes 90% of these posts. Ever thought about that? If sometimes these posts wouldn't cover it, i wouldn't wonder as much, but that's not the case, they are extremely persistent when it comes to that.
>>
>>60199968
Falklands. The ground battles were reminiscent of ww1
>>
>>60199979
alright ill concede you punched thirdies so hard it didnt matter that the rifle was shit
>>
>>60198085
why lie? On anonymous image boards, it makes no sense
>purpose
>quotes weight and size..?
The hellfire cannot be fired from fast jets, the brimstone is designed for and fired from fast jets. The brimstone is only designed to engage light targets or vehicles, and is fired in a ripple at multi target convoys.
The hellfire is a general purpose missile you fire one at a time. From a helicopter.
The brimstone would suck for some of the work done with the hellfire as it's exclusively a tandem warhead
>range
The brimstone has a range of 60km when launched from jets, 40km otherwise, the hellfire tops out at 11km
>guidance
The brimstone is guided by laser, semi active radar and millimetric radar and can use more than one at a time
>platforms
No, hellfires are not deployed on jets
>The uk operates aircraft the US doesn't
they operate the apache
>if they adopted hellfire
the apaches they use carry the hellfire
Also the briomstone is getting replaced by the brimstone 3. Seriously you should lurk on /k/ for a bit and at least have an interest in this stuff before posting
>>
>>60199978
>Maybe it was something to do with how warriortard makes 90% of these posts.
I don’t think you know that. Especially seeing as how that bong kind of BTFO you for thinking every shadow is the warriortard. We’re laughing at you
>>
>>60199929
>implying the 'i'm just trolling' excuse hasn't been the number 1 tactic for every shill on 4chan for the last few years if not longer
>>
>>60199992
>Rifle was shit
No one thinks the SLR is shit though?
>L85A2/3 shit
No one but Bongs have used it, the universal opinion of fat retards with a cheap ar15 at home cant say otherwise
t.bong inf who has shot numerous service rifles, even thr G36 handled better than an M16A2 imagine being cucked with burst fire lmao
>>
>>60200035
How one always gets your kind of salty reply is just the last nail in the coffin of your story. Of course there is also only one poster opposing warriortard in your story.
>>
>>60200035
>every shadow is the warriortard.
Or maybe, just maybe the most outragious claims are done by warriortard, he's not even pretty subtle about it, to get your reaction, to get this very reaction, ever thought about that? Why wouldn't he do it? It clearly works on you.There was a time where he would do this out of spite for days every time someone ruined the fun for him.
>>
>>60200082
I’ve shot the l85a2 and a3 plus almost every other service rifle in Europe and it the L85 was far and away the worst.
>>
incredibly baffled how this thread is still up
>>
>>60200264
Isn’t it weird. Usually bongs are quick to mass report threads critical of them. I’m going to say it’s a false flag thread
>>
Are britbongs not embarrassed that their infantry carry around shit that looks like it was made in MGSV with the gun customization bug? I mean that shit looks like lil Timmy's mega bloks collection.
>>
>>60200261
Prove it
>>
>>60193576
>be ingerland
>in a bid to outdo the shittiest aspects of american policy/society it decides to cuck its industrial base even harder than what we went through back in the 80’s
>even icelandic fishermen basically trolled them
>the L1’s are showing their age and a new intermediate cartridge rifle is desired
>can’t go with the bloody yanks and their M16/AR, too much imperial pride
>the germans are an obvious no go, not racialist just don’t like ‘em, mp5 is sas approved though
>only alternative is just make your own
>british weapons industry hasn’t exactly seen much good days in decades, and now you need your own original rifle design
>one monty python/mr. bean skit later a design is finalized
>tell the lads down at local that they’re all gonna get fired after they make them anyways because lmao
And the rest is history. That said the SUSAT reticle is kino.
>>
>>60199224
Be sure to say that it's chambered in .280 American.
>>
>>60200264
>>60200277
Janny can’t mental gymnastic his way into considering this off topic
>>
>>60197383
it also weighs more than a 20" rifle don't forget
>>
>>60200310
After this anon >>60200082
>>
>>60199979
Because the British hadn't learned anything since then?
>>
>>60200082
>No one but Bongs have used it.
Wonder why.
>the universal opinion of fat retards with a cheap ar15 at home cant say otherwise
They can speak to the ease of using their platform, and the AR-15 is a very intuitive platform.
>t.bong inf who has shot numerous service rifles, even thr G36 handled better than an
X to doubt, but good on H&K for managing to make a decent rifle in the 1990's that could handle better than something from the 1950's.
Truly an achievement for the ages. Maybe the UK will do it next?
>M16A2
About 105 countries using the M16.
>imagine being cucked with burst fire lmao
I had burst fire on my M4 in Afghanistan and in Iraq and never once found it to be a problem in numerous firefights.
Maybe you just have a skill issue?
>>
>>60199224
I've just learned that this weapon exists and am genuinely intrigued.
>>
>>60193592
>inb4 amerifats who have never even seen one IRL, let alone held or shot one tell us all about how it works and think their ownership of a cheap cheato-dust covered AR-15 makes them qualified.
>>
>>60200670
>inb4 bongs who have never seen irl, or let alone shoot any other gun tell us about how much better is is the L85 is
>>
>>60200670
I can look up how it works, see how it looks, and extrapolate that onto my experience with other guns. Can you do the same?
>>
>>60200686
kill yourself larping amerinigger. try not to shoot up a school before you do it.
>>
>>60200728
I enjoy the fact that you can’t own guns. LOL
>>
>>60200741
fat retard dick sniffer
>>
>>60200709
your "experience" of going to a range 2 years ago and magdumping into a target 5m away is fucking gay and doesn't mean shit.
>>
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>>60200870
I smell cope
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>>60200909
I smell ur mum you faggot, nice picture you got off google image search.
>>
>>60200919
uh huh, please tell me more about guns
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>>60200935
>didn't even deny it wasn't his picture.
lol
>>
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>>60201038
mmhmm sweety, that's real nice
>>
>>60197700
This happens is when there are enthusiasts who are genuinely displaced from their stuff. By legislation, lack of industry, lack of money maybe. They become innocent children, similar kids when asked to pick a good car go straight for the Ferrari F40 (which tbqh is probably the wrong choice in nearly every case)
>>
>>60193576
The same reason why the M14 was garbage.

The government got a bunch of "qualified" people in a room and told them to make a gun that fit their wants.

The UK actually got lucky this time since the people in charge of making the gun weren't also in charge of choosing between alternatives.
They went in from the get-go, knowing that it was gonna be adopted no matter how bad it was instead of leading on other companies and getting their hopes up.
>>
>>60201446
The M14 got us the M16 which is kinda nice, tho.
>>
>>60193576
Even for a Bullpup that thing is inexcusably ugly
>>
>>60201554
It’s completely devoid of soul
>>
WOULD THE ORIGINAL M17S HAVE DONE BETTER IN MILITARY SERVICE???
>>
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>>60201986
>>
RANK BULLPUPS
RANK BULLPUPS
RANK BULLPUPS
>>
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>>60200670
Post your guns
>>
>>60199604
>>60199646
>>60199497
>>60199358
Oh its 1 moa? Doubt. Mediocre doesn't mean bad. It means mediocre.
>>60199531
Anon, the M4 had SOPMOD and it actually did get used. The ease of installing accessories to meet mission requirements is a value add. Outside of cool guy units, soldiers aren't constantly reconfiguring their rifles, but different units will configure their rifles differently to meet their mission better.

>>60200018
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/navy-looks-to-equip-f-35-with-four-new-missiles-including-hellfire
You really need to keep up with the news.
>The brimstone has a range of 60km when launched from jets,
When launched from a jet. Compare Brimstone's range apples to apples with hellfire on the same platforms and the range is very close. F-35 launched hellfires will likely have similar range to jet brimstones. They don't break physics.
>The hellfire is a general purpose missile you fire one at a time. From a helicopter.
What is this the 1980's? Get with the times. We aren't talking about old semi active laser guided models. Radar guided hellfires that can be ripple fired have existed as part of Longbow since the 90's/ AGM-114L look it up. And while the Hellfire family can be thought of as general purpose since so many variants exist, the most common versions fielded are directly comparable to Brimstone in terms of performance, guidance and warhead. The default, if you will, is millimeter wave guided with a tandem heat warhead. Just like Brimstone.

You're missing the point. The brits primarily use the brimstone differently by using it as a weapon for fast jets first, but it is a fundamentally similar missile to hellfire and has competed with it directly in contracts before. Both are capable of being used on jets, helos and ground based platforms and have been. The difference in their employment comes down to operational needs of the forces using them. Not in an inherent difference in the qualities of the missiles.
>>
>>60193576
I like the grip pod
>>
>>60204278
I see you still haven't died in your sleep, warriortard.
>>
>>60196766
>EM-2 is a meme and never actually worked
it was the best performing weapon by far at the adaption trials, and passed its sevice adoption tests, it was a functional developed weapon.
>>
>>60193766
>the commando rifle program which insisted on all entries being ARs
That would be because those lads are specifically intended to be Diet Special Forces, i.e. mostly concerned with "advisory" roles. Not much point in training your "local allies" on a weapon they won't ever be issued.
>>
>>60194673
>they got H&K to redesign it, but they still get to put a "made in UK" stamp on it
That's because the work was done at the H&K (BAE Systems) plant in Nottingham. Still is, but now H&K is owned by some German holding company.
>>
>>60197436
That's not because they're any good though. They're shagged out pieces of shit intrinsically worth no more than a PSA, you're not buying a rifle you're buying bragging rights.
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>>60197398
not really, Brimstone was developed from what began as a hellfire improvement program in the UK, it obviously went pretty far from its original brief delivering a missile with greater range and flexibility than the hellfire of the time
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>>60204308
What a shallow cope, might as well issue them AKs or tavors if thats the case. The ranger rifles are for self defense of the guys using them, you dont teach people to shoot by giving them your own gun.
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>>60204332
The $300,000 British shotguns aren’t any good either. It’s just an oddity. Like buying a North Korean made laptop.
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>>60204390
They absolutely are fantastic guns and works of art beside. The apt comparison here is Honda Civic vs. Ferrari.
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>>60204321
Thanks for proving it is actually you, warriortard. Imagine having the bongs of all people live rent free in your head.
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>>60204401
They’re functionally good and look pretty. In the end it’s just one or two tubes with fancy engraving on the receiver and woodwork on the buttstock.
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>>60204377
>you dont teach people to shoot by giving them your own gun
No but you should probably not be teaching them a manual of arms that isn't in any way relevant to what they have, you retard.
>might as well issue them AKs or tavors
It would be fully retarded to either rely on supply from some very sketchy international characters or tool up for a few thousand rifles, vs. just procuring the same old conventional rifle you adopted since before the US did.
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>>60204415
You should probably handle one some time, ideally alongside a Spanish knockoff.
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>>60204401
That is apt, because the Civic is a reliable and unpretentious workhorse and the Ferrari is a balky, impractical, incredibly overpriced showpiece for retards who can't think of any way to express themselves beyond flexing their cash.
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>>60204461
Yeah okay but you'd feel like a right prick if you paid Ferrari money for a Civic with an engine swap.
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>>60193663
>Fractal incompetence. Every time you zoom in you find out that the clowns are made up of smaller clowns.
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>>60204301
Anon, .280 was kinda of shit. The AP round was inaccurate and the lead round lacked power. They could have made it in 7.62 NATO but it would have been a pig.
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>>60194352
There are more than four million legal, civilian-owned guns in the UK.
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>>60204619

.280 British .303 British Mark VII .30-06 Springfield
Bullet weight 139 gr or 9.0 g 174 gr or 11.3 g 166 gr or 10.8 g
Muzzle velocity 2,500 ft/s or 760 m/s 2,456 ft/s or 749 m/s 2,770 ft/s or 840 m/s
Timber penetration at 2,000 yards (1,829 m) 2.9 in or 74 mm 2.4 in or 61 mm 1.6 in or 41 mm
Timber penetration at 100 yards (91 m) 45 in or 114 cm 42 in or 107 cm 47 in or 119 cm
Range for penetration of steel helmet 1,000 yd or 914 m 900 yd or 823 m 1,600 yd or 1,463 m
Vertex height for 600-yard (549 m) range 3.3 ft or 101 cm 3.1 ft or 94 cm 3 ft or 91 cm
Recoil energy per round 7.4 ft⋅lbf or 10.0 J EM-2 rifle 11 ft⋅lbf or 15 J SMLE 14.4 ft⋅lbf or 19.5 J with M1 Garand

and they had fixed the accuracy by adoption as well.

>>60204461
actually while the decoration is what adds to the price, the basic guns will be exactly tailored to the user and are designed to be extremely reliable a fully decorated Holland and Holland gun might be so pretty you dont want to risk dinging the finish on a safari but it will work reliably every time you pull the tirgger, if it fails it will be the ammo.
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>>60204857
A few shotguns locked away at the range is really gay. There are 4 million guns in my town
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>>60204990
Not limited to shotguns, no. It's not illegal to own guns in the UK.
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>>60204995
Shotguns and hunting rifles. Also you have to be approved by the local government and have to store it at the range. No handguns. You lost
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>>60204990
The only thing that I actually miss from being in the UK is centerfired semi automatic rifles. As I'm in Northern Ireland, we aren't subjected to the handgun ban the rest of the UK has. So we can have whatever we want for the purposes of self defence (but that's usually only given out to peelers, soldiers and prison officers) or sport. And when it comes to bolt action rifles you can own whatever calibre you want. They used to have the 50 cal club at one of the army bases so you can have a range to shoot on. Not sure if it's still going but I know one guy locally that still has his barret. I know plenty with handguns for the purposes of self defence and sport. Shotguns require being on two ticket types. You need a shotgun ticket for maximum three capacity, or if you have semi-auto, pump with a greater capacity, you need to put it on a rifle ticket. I know when they ended the weapons out scheme (allowing soldiers to take their rifles home) many soldiers ended up buying high capacity pump action shotguns to supplement their PPW at home.

>>60205041
>Also you have to be approved by the local government
The local police. And they have to give a good reason for denying you a license.
>and have to store it at the range.
No you don't.
>No handguns.
There are conditions in GB for calibres, semi automatics and barrel lengths. This is not an issue in Northern Ireland or crown dependencies.
>You lost.
You don't know what you're talking about.
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>>60205041
Imagine being proud of being this ignorant
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Why are Brits so passive agressive?
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>>60193576
England gay lolol
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>>60205121
>all this bullshit
let's start a gun collection game bonganon, oh whoops already have something illegal for you
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>does it shoot
Well okay not the A1 I'll give you that.

Shut the fuck up about ergonomics please for the love of God.
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>>60195362
Switching shoulders for "muh reduced profile" is retarded. Use your good hand for the extremely fast and precise life-or-death situation.
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>>60209809
Ergonomics
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>>60193576
Because it was a bullpup that wasn’t an aug, %99 of bullpups are fucked from the beginning, and it’s sad too
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>>60209703
no i think we can own extremely ugly blankets
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>>60212601
bongs fear the fish blanket and impotently seethe at the garand, it's to be expected
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>>60193576
>ask a whole bunch of nogunz to make a good gun
>they don't know what makes a gun good
really that simple.
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>>60209703
Lmao, it looks like you're preparing to blow your brains out over those godawful sheets
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>>60204857
Damn that's crazy how about you post your guns
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cope
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this thread has convinced me that the perfidious albions and their nato western overlords are in fact weak and feeble and russia is big and strong
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>>60193576
>destroy your domestic arms manufacturing and civilian firearms sector
>wonder why your new rifle is shit
i fucking hate our politicians
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I rest my case.
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KYS
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>>60193576
Pretty much any new rifle has issues. The only ones that don't see revisions are because they never see combat.
Look at what a piece of shit the M16 was. That was so bad it basically cost American the Vietnam war and killed thousands of young men.
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>>60216918
Russia is no better when it comes to gun ownership. They got some cucked system where you cannot own a rifled weapon until 5 or 10 years of owning a smoothbore. Never listen to a europoor about anything. They are all retarded, the Anglos being the worst of the bunch.
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>>60195407
Americans have no reply
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>>60193576
Basically new generations of inbreeding in our upper classes make the country’s leadership worse and worse in a couple more generations they’ll be walking on all fours and switching the country to a stick and rock based economy
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>>60193576
What's so bad about these things exactly? I live in Canada and we can't buy them here. Can you you guys buy them in the US? If not how do all the posters here know its bad? Lots of Brit zogbots in here?
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>>60222774
They struggled with the sandy environment of the first Gulf war which gained them a reputation of being unreliable. This has since been fixed but people still go on and on about it forever.
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>>60222774
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>>60222928
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>>60222928
We're there even any firefights in the 1st Gulf War? Let alone with Brits?
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>>60223143



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