It's a David against Goliath scenario, especially since Greece has about 1/8th of Turkey's population and 1/5th of its GDP. But, how could Greece win?
>>60172656Advantage always lies with defender.
>>60172656They can't, dream on
>>60172656They can't. Their best move would be to achieve a draw by going on the defensive. Porcupine tactics. Let the Turks fight for every village.
>>60172656>greasy kebab munching brownoidsThey're so similar, and share so much history. Why can't they just get along?>how could Greecewin?What are the conditions of Greek victory, retaking Constantinople, the complete occupation of Turkey, or etc.?
>>60172656Realistically there's no scenario in the current geopolitical environment where Turkey attacks Greece and NATO doesn't intervene. And as silly as Greece may be, even they're not dumb enough to fire the first shot against Turkey.
>>60172705Bad bait, have a pity (You)
I honestly don't know why they both are so retarded. If they would together they would rule the Mediterranean
>>60172705Because Russia is the greatest nation on earth. ZZZZZZZZZ
>>60172742Would work together*
>>60172656Twenty years of sound fiscal and military policy.
>>60172656>But, how could Greece win?By trumping NATO membership with NATO + EU membership.
I just want to see hot Phantom on Phantom action dogfights, simple as
>>60172742eastern mediterranean maybe
>>60172656Any modern Greco-Turkish war will likely be a primarily naval one and Turkey has been shit compared to Greece on that front. Erdo's purges haven't helped any.
all greece has to do, unironically, is thrust to take Constantinople and then hold defensively waiting for war score to tick up
>>60172656They're almost evenly matched in terms of hardware and the turkish-greek border is pretty small, a war between the two would be a pointless bloodbath.
wait until they declare war on the mamluks then siege edirme and blockade the strait with galleys so they get stuck
>>60173184Anon more people live in "Constantinople"s metropolitan area than all of Greece, how exactly are they going to take it?
>>60173220>The border is pretty smallAre you seriously posting on /k/ without knowing warships exist?
>>60173263What fucking year are you from? That only works when you control one side of the strait
>>60172712Not right now but if shit ever hits the fan NATO will have no choice but to turn a blind eye to keep Turkey on their side
>>60173364A Turkish invasion of Greece would make the Russian invasion of Ukraine look like a brilliant idea. The two sides are far more evenly matched and Turkey doesn't have nukes to defend their territory.
>>60173273Fire of Smyrna 2023
>Erdogan and Leonidas or whoever the fuck Greek's president each race desperately across the room to a telephone, knowing the first one that calls Article 5 will see the other one get nuked
>>60173432Greece doesn’t have the manpower of Ukraine, not to mention their aging population problem is worse. While Turkey is huge and with a relatively young population
>>60173605Greece has the terrain advantage though, no plains, hills and mountains only.
>>60173605turkey is very much a divided nation with eastern parts pretty much in revolt, they are in absolutely no position to seriously attack anyone without collapsing
>>60173605A turk invasion of greece would involve a narrow chokepoint that'd make look norway look wide involving lovely terrain such as mountains and a river with a very militarized society willing to defend their country
>>60173619Turkey doesn’t want their mainland though, just Greece’s island and Cyprus. At best they’ll take some land around Istanbul
>>60173563>Erdogan loses>he has to sit there and watch the USAF personnel in Turkey take out the nukes stored in Turkish air bases to nuke Turkey with>he reluctantly accepts this
Greeks blew their chances in 1919-1922.Result? Three thousand years worth of Greek history wiped of the face of the Anatolian earth. As if the Greeks never lived on Anatolia in the first place.
>>60172656The realpill is that 99.9% of Turkey is a blasted hellscape that is strategically untenable to hold.If, and it's a big IF, the greasy disgusting brown oliveturks fight with their cousins the only tenable strategy is to grab Istanbul in a lightning offense and then stoke the fires of aburkadurk islamic separatism in the rest of the pseudo-nuclear wasteland that is anatolia
>>60172698>They're so similar, and share so much history. Why can't they just get along?No they're not. Greeks are European, Turks are Asian
>>60173729>Now they're like the Italians.>Short, brown, low IQ.LOL no, couldn't be more wrong than that. Get out of fucking Alabama
>>60173729Because of the short occupation? Then the whole of Africa would be bleached out after all the centuries of European dominion.
>>60174011>>60174023mmmm I smell tomato paste and olive oil and the bitter tears of southerners
>>60173729Mad argentinian? Why does Italy live in your head rent free, hate states that are successful?
>>60174039Please pull up that chart of contribution for the EU, and see who's in the green, and who's in the red, "northener".
>>60174039Go back on /pol/ nigger and bring your retarded bumfuck-alabama-Ifuckedmycousin shit with you. This is a gun board.Or maybe you're a turkroach
>>60174056Oh the garlic stench oooh.Sorry! Didn't quite spot you at the first glance, since it's night and all.>>60174066Is this English? Hehe, you're from America, ain't ya?
>>60174073Yep, definitely some form of seething thirdie/low IQ snow Nigerian. Return when you have a coherent argument and can string it together convincingly.
>>60174081You genuinely speak a different form of English. What do the -,-,- and the /,/ & / mean?It's like you're a Russian using, a, comma, after, every, word.
>>60174073>loses argument and goes on a tismo rant about English grammar and punctuation>ain'tLmao!
So I have learned from this thread that calling brown people brown makes them freak out, yes?Nice.
>>60174110No it's just random polfags
>>60172656I dream of the day Greece resurrects Constantinople from the ruins of Neo-Ottoman occupation
>>60174137But they blessed me with Argentinian citizenship and a lifetime subscription to post-2016 /pol/?Thank you, thank you. No amount of soap will wash away the poop skin, but thank you nonetheless.
>>60173605The population growth in Turkey comes from the Kurds, not the Turks. >>60174093>this insecure about his english skillsHoly shit
On 1vs1; Greece has zero chanceIf the EU & NATO provide material assistance to Greece; Greece still lacks the manpower.
>>60172656they need to invade Limnos so it is arma 3 irl
>>60173364NATO turning a blind eye on a member getting invaded would be the end of NATO.
>>60174181NOOOOOOOO!I WANNA TAKE A TRIP THERE!!!!!
>>60173708The Greeks got too greedy. They should have just taken the European part of Turkey and Constantinople and fortified the straits.
>>60174203>I want to go to an absolute tourist trap and be assaulted by trinket sellers and eat kebab with flies on it
>>60174211Allies didn't allow that, they wanted Constantinople to be a "Free City" whatever the fuck that is
>>60174211Greeks got flanked hard in inner Anatolia and lost 75% of their standing army in less than a week. Kind of hilarious if you look at it.
>>60174219>t. I've never been outside my town, Shithole, MO
>>60174219I mostly want to drive around, I read some blog about a dude scooting around on his dual sport and it seemed pretty fun
>>60174203unironically as a yuro it is well within reach for a relatively cheap flight there>>60174219i dont know a single person ever who has talked about a trip to limnos regarding trips to greece, i doubt its a tourist trap
I hope it happens soon enough, as it stands the air battles will be kino. Rafale vs shitty old F16s, it's gonna be a massacre.
>>60172656attack the center and rout their king
>>60173681Additionally to that, those islands are within range of turkish artillery. And Athena itself is in range of turkish missile I think.
The answer is Greece makes better friends than Turkey.All of Europe will rally behind them, Turkey gets ejected violently from NATO and Article 5 gets enacted. Turkey ceases to exist two days later.
It's almost like everything has gone wrong for the Greeks. Their empire just happened to be super weak when the Arabs came around, they lose one battle at manzikert from one incompetent general, and lost most of Anatolia, the 4th crusade just happens to fuck their ass, then when they finally get out from under the claws of the Turks and try to take Anatolia back, a once-in-a-century gigachad Ataturk comes out of nowhere and throws them back singlehandedly. They are a cursed people. Change any one of those events and Greece would be a regional power at least. Any one of them. We truly live in the worst timeline.
>>60174694>Turkey ceases to exist two days later.By whom?
Their demographic numbers are fucked. Turkey just needs to wait and Greece will kill itself.
>>60174866It's not looking too good for Turkey either, Kurds and other factions are outbreeding the actual Turks.
>>60174938Majority of Kurds are pro turk/islamisation. In fact these are Erdogan voters.
>>60174966Nah, kurds are the good guys. They want their own land, just like Israel.
>>60174987Not the ones in Turkey. Again, the overwhelm majority of Kurds there are pro islam/nostalgic of the ottoman empire. They are the first supporters of Erdogan.
>>60174220>whatever the fuck that isUnder British administration. If we're being generous, under joint British-French-Russian administration.
>>60173711>No they're notYes they are, the people living along the Aegean are all pretty similar.
>>60174739good. hopefully the greeks end up like the armenians or worse. good riddance to fat brown medshit monkeys.
>>60174220It's a city run by Greece's allies, including the predominant world Orthodox power, a way of slowly delivering the city to Greece by the back door. It would have been Greek in all but name and Greece blew it.
>>60174220>they wanted Constantinople to be a "Free City" whatever the fuck that isMeans the British wanted to use it as a cash cow
>>60173273How many of those roaches have guns? a small force with weapons can easily keep a whole city in line.
>>60173708I don't get why they gave up constantinople in the peace deal, im not sure that Turkish forces could have crossed the strait.
>>60175319Cope harder nigger.
>>60175381>>60175086British diplomat was third stupidest person in the room after German and Austria.>should we gave Constinople to our new allies Greece?>nah I'll just take it.>should we honor our promise to Arab sheik and Sultans and giving them independence after helping us defeat the Ottoman?>lol! Free land for me!>should we honor our treaty with our dear friend Rothschild and create an independent state of Israel?>fuck that kike, Palestine territory is mine!
>>60175526Retarded British post WW1 land grabs is why the region is such a shithole also.
>>60172712Some low intensity spat over fields or cyprus in the future are possible which is why the Greek navy is actually on parity with Turkish.
>>60173273Take it in the opening attack since the ottomans unticked fort maintenance
>>60172656maybe in soccer
What ship is this?Spotted between Turkey and Kios.
>>60177624Anglos are just the biggest opportunists our of any Euro group and that comes from mostly being an underdog through most medieval history in comparison to other kingdoms. The attitudes haven't changed it's just shifted. Look at all the shit the UK gives Russians, autocratic nations and political or religious radicals, but if you got shit tons of money to sink into their banks they'll let you buy property on Knightsbridge and give you police and media protection. See oligarchs and even that high ranking Hamas member who got exposed living in the UK and the authorities respond by placing a gag order on the media once chatter got too loud.
>>60174093You are retarded.
>>60172656do you think turkey would be allowed to invade an allied country? like have you heard of nato? even 200 years ago allied powers went to bat for greece and at the time it was just vanity between them but turkey can't just invade greeceeven italy would be on team greece today because turkey just can't be allowed to do thatwar is illegal so if you fight one you better fucking be good at itand sorry turkey is not a global power
>>60173364Or they could kick the shit out of Turkey and place a non-retarded government in charge. Makes things a lot easier for everyone.
>Turkey attacks Greece>NATO flattens them and puts someone who isn't a retarded ammoral spiteful manchild in charge of the Bosphorus Christ I wish
>>60184756Apparently Israel is engineering this series of events as we speak. The false flag will happen soon.
>>60172656How can they win? Just like last time.
>>60172656If Russia intervened on their behalf.
>>60175526/gsg/ thinking is pretty much the route to disaster. Just this naive bureaucratic notion of the world being neatly determined by lines on a map. The french unironically justified Lebanon's control on something like "Oh we wuz crusaders so it has a sentimental purpose", nevermind the Algerian colonization was literally just>Shits unpopular stateside>Oh our ambassador got whapped by a fly whisk>Time for a jolly war to distract them
>>60173432>two sides are far more evenly matchedWasn't greece receiving gibs from France and Germany for the last 10 years because their economy and defense budget were completely in tatters?Back in 2014ish I remember that the Greeks just stopped intercepting turkish F-16 airspace overflights because they couldn't afford the fuel and flight hours.
>>60185815Last time was after ww1, no?
Turkey Jr defeated Armenia in less than 24 hours. This should give you an idea
>>60184876First time I would support jews jewing around.
>>60173708>>60174211>>60174226>>60175427Greece didn't start anything. Britain decided those borders so they could steal all the land and money for themselves instead of honoring a half dozen promises they made for support during WW1Surprise surprise Britain abandons everyone when Turkish revolution happens, France dips, Italian Turkish front collapses, and Greeks are left flanked against the sea.>>60175381 has it right. Anglos completely destroyed the world.
>>60172656Well they'd have to be braver, smarter, more capable, more industrious, more driven, and all around better. In realityland they're incompetent, corrupt, lazy, and borderline retarded. They have no domestic industry to speak of and are vastly outnumbered. Their military has zero experience while Turkey's has at least some.So the one scenario they win is where someone else does the fighting. Maybe by pushing Erdogan and the Jew's buttons until someone starts shooting, then gets a small border kerfuffle going and asks for NATO intervention since Turkey has gone rogue.
>>60175526Also this.Their collapse now into tiny island backwater is sadly 100 years too late to save the planet from forever wars
>>60186600>nooo it's everyone else's fault that border claims happen, mine are legitimate because one thousand years ago the Roman Empire held constantinople before the Turks took it, it's not fair it's not fair!lol
reminderevery overtly pro greek post is a false flagevery overtly pro turkish post is a false flag
>>60186611right because people didn't fight wars over these things before Anglos existed.Oh right, they did, just ineffectively and retarded because all non-Anglos are subhuman trash. "waaah stop winning all the time it's not fair" isn't a valid argument.
>>60173605How many of those young people are Kurds though?
>>60172656Isn't Grease mostly empty dying country?
>>60186613>>60186618Butthurt anglos detected. Maybe don't promise every nation all of their border claims simultaneously and then reneg and took the land for yourself... Only to lose it anyway.Or just try be better the first time, and you don't need to betray promises to your allies at all, to keep a dying empire alive. But no matter, when the Pakistanis inherit the throne, it will be improved for sure.
>>60186600>It's not turkey's fault that we're being beaten by turkeyJeez, have a little backbone, Dimitrios.
>>60178794Not sure but it ain't greek nor turkish
>>60184711Russia&Iran would never allow that though
>>60187084>>60178794>>60178794First I thought it was Turkish Dimdeg. But it's a German Berlin-class replenishment ship. Germans are desperate to pay their denbts to Jews, so that's why the vessel must be roaming around.Turkish Dimdeg: https://x.com/mavivatannet/status/1688865568835674112?s=20German Berlin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin-class_replenishment_ship
>>60187127Germany should just say they've paid enough and that no living German should still be paying for things that dead Germans did.
>>60187141>no living German should still be paying for things that dead Germans did.LMAO Anon. Germany is guilty for everything forever.
>>60173364We only needed Turkey in NATO for IRBM basing which is no longer necessary.
>>60187199In a Russian-NATO war, Turkey just locks 1/3 of the Russian military. Without Turkey, Russia is going to have a hundred free divisions that can be sent to Eastern Europe. Pic unrelated, just some 30mm electric-driven T30 cannon from Turkey for the new fighter jet
>>60187243A Turkey allied with Russia and Iran would be too OP desu. I think they will switch sides as they were never fully on board with the West in the first place
>>60172656Unless it's a surprise attack:Mining the shit out of the land border and have artillery dialed in. Have SAMs and radars all over the islands and have jet fighters guard the main land.Mine the sea between the islands and use radars to direct anti ship missiles.Have those state of the art hunting subs block off the way to Greece's West coast.Erdogan would be retarded enough to send people into the meat grinder because it would be a matter of pride to defeat Greece without hastle "raising eyebrow" style.Another thing is that every operation conducted by the Turks would has been a disaster measured by Western standards. The Greeks are better trained.Turkey would be the aggressor and the West stands with the birthplace of democracy, so Turkey's beaten economy would go to absolute shit immediately.The material losses would be astronomical for Turkey.
>>60174066Greasy, no-guns (brown) eurocuck faggot. Closest thing to a gum you've ever had in your hands is refugee dong
>>60174694Greeks are backstabbing freeloaders with a hardon for slavscum. They should be erased
>>60172656like in the olden days, bunch up with serbia and montenegro and romania, kill off kosovo, albania, bulgaria then turkey. split up the prize.
>>60186787Or maybe you can try to stop being a fucking loser? That way you don't have to rely on "promises" from other people to secure your own existence
>>60187351Its funny seeing greekoids chimp out about the rest of europe “not helping them” enough as if anyone owes these brown roaches anything. If anything you should be grateful they didn’t let turkey wipe em out
>NATO this, article 5 thatWhy do people think that NATO would do anything? It's proven to be a paper tiger since the end of the cold war, where all but one members is actually willing to intervene in any regional conflict. It's gonna be dead for sure after the next US president withdraws from it.
>>60187402There has been 0 times anyone attacked a NATO member, NATO has never been tested. You are talking out of your ass. At best, it is not known how anyone will react. >>60187351>>60187362>trying to desperately rationalize why you are a shitty allyEmbarrassing
>>60187402The zisters are here.
>>60187418>There has been 0 times anyone attacked a NATO member, NATO has never been tested. You are talking out of your ass. At best, it is not known how anyone will react.lies."""Article 5 has been invoked only once in NATO history, after the September 11 attacks on the United States in 2001. The invocation was confirmed on 4 October 2001, when NATO determined that the attacks were indeed eligible under the terms of the North Atlantic Treaty. The eight official actions taken by NATO in response to the 9/11 attacks included Operation Eagle Assist and Operation Active Endeavour, a naval operation in the Mediterranean which was designed to prevent the movement of terrorists or weapons of mass destruction, as well as enhancing the security of shipping in general. Active Endeavour began on 4 October 2001."""
>>60187418>trying to desperately rationalize why you are a shitty allyOh you delusional greekoid, the west is the only reason why the roaches haven’t enslaved you for another 500 years
why is turkey in nato? the west has far more in common with christian greeks of the birthplace of democracy and western civilization than roach muslims who tried to conquer europe and kidnappd and forced anglos into slavery for decades
>>60187464Anon come on. You know exactly what I meant, I meat actually being invoked against a nation state, not a bunch of durkha durkha muslims.>>60187467>no argument/pol/ is that way
>>60187505Because Americans are cυcks who are too afraid to rape turkey and install a puppet government that will somewhat civilize them
>>60187505Greek democracy lasted a decade at most and was considered inferior to aristocracy, it has nothing to do with liberal democracy as it is now.
>>60187505Both are brown, greasy, manlets. There's no difference between a turk and greek other than religion
>>60187351>>60187362It was Britain who begged for the help of the shitty countries of Europe in the first place lol, or else they all would've just allied with Germany instead. >>60187557Britoids still have a monarchy, what would they even know about democracy?
>>60187505>why is turkey in nato?Because despite the memes, they're one of the few NATO members which can do shit militarily on their own. Additionally, they've kept the russians in check in Armenia, Syria and in Libya.
>>60187095What are they going to do about it huh
>>60186687You are going to need a legend for that map, pal
Lmao at the British poltard seething about brownoids and whatnot. You have an Indian prime minister.
>>60187647What's your opinion on the war in Ukraine?
As much as i'd love for Greece to retake Constantinople I have to remind myself they they would just probably just go full Byzantine retard again and fuck themselves over.I can't even imagine the sort of dumb shit they would do with any semblance of control over the Bosporus.
>>60187898Syria scenario but more intensified
>>60188132>finally have an ally that would cockblock Russia without threatening to get friendly with it or MuslimsOh no that's so much worse than Turkey
>>60188717>implying they wouldn't ally with russia to kick the brits and turks off Cyprus
>>60172656By not attacking first.Try to take Constantinople like they are the Byzantines. Then just defend as by sea and landing is what leaves them. If you mean more of a modern scenario. NATO. Turkey is butt buddies with Russia so I'd assume the US would be fine funding another proxy war
Geography not suitable for Europeans to chew
>>60172742>working together with roacheslmao
>>60172742Are you guys really this blind even when reality is right there slapping its balls to your face? Have you not seen the shitshow that is Finland's and Sweden's NATO accession? And that's the whole fucking NATO vs Turkey, not a small country like Greece. Like, I don't expect everyone to have read Thucydides, but come on.
I think this conflict is likely to happen in the future due to the insoluble nature of the dispute over Turkey’s territorial waters, Turkey’s increasing geopolitical independence, Erdogan’s mercurial leadership style and the power imbalance between the two countries. Of course, it would be preferable for Greece to win. Here are my thoughts (I have thought a lot about this because I have major autism):1) The primary theater of combat/Turkish objective will be some or all of the Aegean islands close to the Turkish mainland although the entire Aegean & Eastern Med is relevant. These islands will be subject to invasion by amphibious landing & air assault & face full power of massive Turkish artillery, air strikes and constant drone surveillance. Greek Air Force & Navy ability to support the garrisons will be limited because they’re covered by Turkish SAMs & land-based anti-ship missile batteries not to mention Turkey’s own larger navy and Air Force. 2) Greece’s purchases of new FDI frigates & further Rafael’s from France, new ASW helis from the US & upgrade several dozen F-16s to Viper standard and purchases of stand-off munitions &Spike ATGMs from Israel are a great start but they need to do so much more to fight in the Eastern Aegean. Greece lacks way behind in several key areas: especially drones, electronic warfare, and long-range missiles. 3) How can Greece win? Simply put: prevent a speedy & easy capture of the disputed Eastern Aegean islands & cause massive attrition & economic damage if Turkey attempts it, to give time for international pressure/intervention to stop Turkey. (Cont.)
4. how to accomplish this? Greece’s Aegean garrisons are numerically large but they amount to second rate mechanized infantry brigades, with a lot of old MBTs, APCs & SPHs, which will quickly be killed by overwhelming Turkish air power & drone-directed artillery. These forces must be restructured with an emphasis on fighting from tunnels & concealment, & maximum light, mobile firepower. Imagine a force composed mostly of infantry armed with many small drones, MANPADS, ATGMs, mortars, mines, anti-material rifles, grenade launchers, many light mobile rocket launchers such as Hydra 70mm or 107mm mounted on small light vehicles. Loitering munitions fired from civilian trucks en masse diving into Turkish amphibious landing ships. All concealed from tunnels and buildings. Doctrine wise, air mobile infantry should be flown into rapidly grow the garrisons if war seems imminent. The goal is a hard-hitting force that’s hard to kill —did I mention TUNNELS & IR Camo & short range EW jamming fucking everywhere for these island garrisons? 5. Greece desperately needs more land-based anti ship missiles, airborne EW platforms & long range missiles to provide the ability to support the island garrisons from stand-off range & deny the Aegean to the Turkish Navy. Greece can use airborne EW platforms, drones and commercial satellite images for targeting intel and rely on stand-off strikes to cripple air bases, logistics & c2 targets in western Anatolia which Greece must stockpile Shahed-type drones as they are a cheap way to achieve a high volume of strikes & do strategic bombing on the cheap—by, for example, targeting Turkish naval bases & petroleum refining/transport/storage at Gölcük and Mersin, airports in Western Anatolia etc. (even if those don’t work they’ll spread out and occupy some Turkish SAMs)(Please note this series of posts deliberately ignores considerations related to a ground war in Thrace or an expanded conflict in Cyprus simply for brevity)(Cont)
>>60189317I agree with most of your post but what the fuck is the "overwhelming Turkish air power" that you speak of? Shitty old F16s? Why do you think Erdogan is desperate to cover this gap, holding the entirety of NATO hostage and causing a shitshow in Germany?
>>60189358Turkish-Greek war will be manned vs unmanned. Turkey has access to almost a thousand various drones, and half of them are armed.
>>60189383Ah yes the Turkish wunderwaffe. I guess we haven't watched the same Ukraine conflict.
6. Greek Navy should avoid a fleet engagement in the Aegean which will be a shooting gallery for land based aircraft and land based missile batteries. Surface fleet should stay close to Greece to assist with air defense and sortie into Eastern Med to act as a fleet in being and raid Turkish commerce. 7. Greece’s basic problem is: they cannot afford to match turkey militarily. What I am outlining here is a way to achieve maximum deterrence and effectiveness for relatively small spend. Of course, attrition will be very high (Yom Kippur War levels) and thus Greece could also use more big systems (more jets, subs, ships etc) but I’m leaving aside that because its an economic issue. Tl;dr: reconfigure Aegean command, stockpile missiles, loitering munitions & drones, invest in EW, prepare to frustrate the amphibious attacking forces with asymmetric tactics and stand-off attacks while attriting the Turkish Navy, maintaining a loose far blockade in the Med and a cheap kamikaze drone strategic bombing campaign, and diplomacy-ing hard for US or French intervention Random other ideas I’ve had: -rapid heliborne assault to seize Imbros island at the outset of the war so Greece has an asset to trade back for any islands it ends up losing in peace negotiations -use intelligence covert methods (perhaps through cooperation with Syria, who has no love for Ankara) to supply Kurdish groups in Iraq or Syria with some weapons and explosives to ramp up the PKK insurgency and thereby divert Turkish ISR assets Following these steps Greece may be able to win but it will require years of increased defense spending and careful planning
>>60189398I'm just stating a fact Turkish arsenal is vastly superior both in technology and number. Greece doesn't have any proper unmanned system. Meanwhile, Turkey is pumping up and developing its own doctrine.
>>60189358>>60189358In an air to air fight on even terms, Greece has the edge right now, with better training, Meteor enabled Rafales, and Vipers. But Turkey has numerical superiority and over the Eastern Aegean islands like Samos and Lesbos, Turkish SAMs will cover the battle space. Greece can’t afford the losses of continuously challenging the Turks in that airspace Turkey has hundreds of manned aircraft and drones that can perform persistent ISR and precision strike, and Turkey is fairly experienced at air to ground strike due to years of fighting in Iraq, Syria and even Nagorno-Karabakh where they had experience in a campaign with a strong SEAD aspect. Greek tanks, IFVs and SPHs on those islands won’t last long. That is my basis for saying that in this context Turkish air power will be overwhelming (before you even count the land based artillery) Greece may however be able to temporarily challenge and gain superiority over the battlefield to allow strikes in ground targets to be delivered, allow ISR assets to be targeted etc, from time to time, and that will be a key to victory Last random point: Greece must leave anti-ship operations in the Aegean to land based missiles, Mirage/Rafale carrying Exocet, subs, air dropped mines, loitering munitions/Spike ER fired from islands and small boats, and keep the large surface combatants out of the shooting gallery.
>>60189547>In an air-to-air fight on even terms, Greece has the edge right now, with better training, meteor-enabled Rafales and Vipers.Greece doesn't have drone fighters, tankers, and proper AEW&C tools. Greece also lacks greatly in terms of EW and PODs. Greece doesn't know what they will have to face on the air. Also, Greece doesn't know what will be used against their airbases because Turkey has many systems that can target Greek airbases from safe Turkish innerland... You know, airplanes will be worthless if you can't keep the airbases intact
>>60172656>How could Greece win against Turkey?Clone Philip of Macedon
>>60189358They are developing their own fighter jets
>>60189898If and when they go in production we can talk about them. The Russians on paper also have a super strong stealth fighter that will completely destroy anything western system but in reality, well...you know. Turkey is a third world dictatorship with a Press Freedom Index lower than Russia. A lot of that shit is posturing.
>>60189547You are assuming that Greek SAMs won't do the same for some reason.
>>60188886Europeans lived there before turkics existed
>>60189942Greece doesn’t deploy anything but outdated SHORAD on the Eastern Aegean Islands due to Treaty of Lausanne. They have S-300 and Tor on Crete and Patriot + Skyguard on Skyros but both of those are too far from Chios, Samos, Rhodes Lesbos etc to effect air battles over those islands. Turkey would chimp if Greece moved medium range SAMs to those latter islands
>>60189942Oh and in addition to >>60190069I forgot to add that given the Eastern Aegean islands are in range of tube artillery and the Turks have a lot of ground based EW that will detect any radar emitter and it will get targeted by a lot of howitzers probably >>60189790I neglected to address all this for brevity but you’re correct the air balance is closer than it looks on paper because of Turkish tankers, pods etc. and Turkey has an overwhelming advantage in long range munitions that pose a serious threat to Greek fighters on the ground. As Turkey retires its older frigates and FACMs it should repurpose the CIWS on those for point defense of airbases
>>60190186*meant to say that as Greece retires it’s older ships it should repurpose them for airbase defense
>>60172656Shoot their planes, sink their boats, arty making land invasion impossible because land border is too small. Not losing is kind of a "win" these days. Prolonged conflict will attract allies to finally move their lazy asses and end it.
I know it's very eyeroll-inducing to engage in "ughh what could have been"-posting with regards to the Empire of Constantinople and its Hellene or Roman inhabitants, but this will never stop being one of the most tragic aberrations in history to me, it's where things just went wrong. I have no hatred for the Turk, and even see the Ottoman Empire as a legitimate successor-state, but the sheer scale of ethnic cleansing against a race with such a long and storied history rubs me the wrong way.
>>60190314"sheer scale of ethnic cleansing" as if it hasn't happened countless other times in human history at even greater scales
>>60189943>Turkey is full of turkics
>>60172684>>60172680Your strategies are a couple centuries out of date.
>>60190314>it's where things just went wrongYeah, definitely then and not the Byzantines fucking everything up for centuries on end.
>>60189928>Muh pressSay some certain word or criticize some certain group as a journalist and you get canceled faster than you can order a coffee at Starbucks. Journalism is a meme.
>>60190986Yeah, anon, sucking state propaganda like a dick is so much better.
>>60172656>how could Greece win?The EU already is a mutual defense treaty.Turkey would not pick a fight with Greece, they'd pick a fight with Europe and that is a fight they'd lose.
>>60174220If they gave Constaintinople back to Greece they'd have created another decently major power overnight, and they didn't want that.They also could have been angling to eventually give it back, though.
>>60191064Didn't say that. What I wanted to say is picking the "press freedom index" out of all things is the worst example.>>60191075Depends how much personnel and hardware the EU is willing to sacrifice.
>>60191096>Depends how much personnel and hardware the EU is willing to sacrifice.Are you really pulling a "HATO would not help Poland if we attack axaxaxax" ?
>>60191105No you retard. Turkey doesn't want to conquer greek mainland or some "Athene in 4 days" bullshit, what it wants are some islands few kilometers away from their own shoreline. And is the EU collective ready to sacrifice personnel and hardware for said islands?
>>60191126Well, if they don't, the EU will collapse. So, probably.
>>60191126Are you really willing to bet your own blood on the West not keeping an agreement they have made?
>>60172656greece would have to cause kurds in the east to revoltin current turkish millitary doctrine any war they fight they prepare for 2 fronts
>>60191149Not just an agreement, one of the cornerstones of the EU.Not to mention the Greeks have defense pacts with the US and France, separate from NATO and the EU
>>60191142>>60191149Or they will use this "incident" as an excuse to partition the EU into two groups; The high "performance" countries, and the rest.
>>60191172Is this what you roaches dream of before going to bed after queuing up for a loaf of bread all day?
>>60191172Are you willing to bet your blood on that?
>>60191172You're literally the same as the Russians. This is incredible. It's the exact same rhetoric."We always backstab our allies, so the decadent west must be doing the same".
>>60191194No, there is nothing certain about anything in today's policies, all I do is some guesswork. Are you willing to bet your blood on that the EU is willing to sacrifice their soldiers for "some" islands?
>>60191203It's pretty funny that you're realizing this only now
>>60191203The backstabbing is always mutual.
>>60191203>>60191221In fact the Turks are in many ways worse than the Russians.
>>60191219Yes.I willing to bet blood on the EU destroying any enemy. In fact, regime change in Turkey would be incredibly beneficial to the EU and NATO.So I think, if the opportunity presents itself, you're getting desert stormed.
>>60191235>Yes.Sweet dreams I guess.
>>60191203The US has no allies, only completely defenseless client states that they have to constantly babysit
>>60191243The West thrives on honoring agreements made. An agreement with a western nation is ironclad.If you make the agreement, the west will honor it in spirit and in letter both.This is what allowed the West to dominate the world. Because their word can be trusted and relied upon. To preserve the value of their words, it is certain that the West will intervene, if an agreement made requires them to.
>>60191264Now you're larping.>>60191248>babysitThe main reason why so many countries want to join the NATO.
>>60191280>Now you're larping.Give an example of the West breaking an agreement, then.
>>60191280>The main reason why so many countries want to join the NATO.So they can be fully dependent on america for everything? Nice ''ally'' you got there
>>60191293Germany is still buying russian gas
>>60191301>Germany is still buying russian gasWhere did they make an agreement not to?
>>60191301Are you a Russian?
>>60191293When trump pulled out of the nuclear deal and invited solemaini for tea before murking him???Many such cases
>>60191716Trump never stepped away from a deal that wasn't already broken.
>>60191939tell that to the Iranians and the rest of the JCPOA lmao. Theres a specific process for withdrawing from an agreement for a reason
>>60187851You really think Turkey would help NATO if it came to that? I think they'd betray NATO.
>>60192459You are replying to a turk
>>60186773what is that video lmao
>how could greece winJapanese style island fuckery mixed with Ukrainian style "GIB UZ MUNNEY"
>>60187418>At best, it is not known how anyone will react.The reason NATO has never been tested is because everyone who might want to test it knows exactly how it would react
>>60187418>There has been 0 times anyone attacked a NATO member, NATO has never been tested.I wonder why.Deterrence is the only reliable defense strategy.But go on and try it, roach.
>>60192459NATO=Turkey and EUEU= Betrays Turkey leaves aloneBut how can Turkey not help EU?Btw. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4S925Djaow
won't happen, they may hate each other but both Greece and Turkey are NATO members
>>60187327Nigger. Cope harder and smoke crack.
>>60191142>>60191149The only nation with any backbone to say no is the UK and they bailed the EU. So no none of the EU would do shit aside from sanctions.
>>60200475>and they bailed the EUwhich was widely regarded as a bad move and is costing them dearly
>>60200486How? Theyre gdp is still above France as is gdp per capita. Its had no effect whatsoever.t.Estonian
>>60173711>Greeks are European, Turks are AsianYou do realize that half of Turkey is just Islamized Greeks
>>60173711I'm cypriot turk and my DNA test came back 1/3 italian so I'm actually African not Asian
>>60200602The UK doesn't really have much of an economy outside of London finance bullshit. Look at a map, they're dirt poor everywhere else.Free movement of European money there was the backbone of their economy. Now that that isn't happening and the UK isn't getting a good deal on that, they are struggling. The cracks have been showing for a while, but it has been getting quite bad in the past two years.
>>60187095>Russia&Iran would never allow that thoughif turkey was dumb enough to outright invade and nafo decided to smack them down for being self-important cunts the only thing russia and iran could do would be screech on tvnafo couldn't easily invade either, boots-on-the-ground style. but winning pretty much any engagement against turkey/russia/iran would be fairly easy, and when half your army gets turned into rubble in a week it's hard to actually invade anybody
>>60203824At least they have less immigrants now.
>>60204070Actually, they have less legal EU migrant. But illegal brownoid migration has absolutely SKYROCKETED to the point they're practically flooded with thirdies. (And as an EU citizen I can confirm, makeup over here is getting whiter so, I know where they're going. Kek. We're litterally keeping the fiscally beneficial and dumping all the mudskins their way.)Something people don't realize is, as inept at border control as the EU has been in the past. Its actually better than USA, UK and the rest at sending people back. Getting out of EU means loosing all the deals that let it ship people back home. And now the thirdies know UK is out of those deals, they smell the blood in the water. Give it a couple decades and UK gonna look like USA.
>>60204224Did you honestly anyone to believe anything you just said?
>>60204224Are you a bot? All your points sound like stuff that relies on emotion over facts. Your picture is also about immigration away from countries, not too them.
the greek powerhouse is athens with a spread out manufacturing hubsthe turkish powerhouse is istanbul with many of its manufacturing hubs being around it if i was greece i would have loaded the rafales and mirages with scalps and just unleash a barrage on istanbul and destroy all of the bridges and tunnels with that simple move you effectivelly buttfucked turkey's economy the little devil on me would also station few rafales with scalps in cyprus to attack the spillways of the southern dams especially the ataturk one if the attack is successfull and the spillway is blocked a big portion of turkey will go into electricity ratio turkey would probably capture some islands i guess in the process
>>60172656Turkey is in a very poor condition as a country. It's hard to imagine them winning a war.
>>60173605Turkey's young population is dominated by refugees from every corner of the middle east. Greece also has extremely difficult terrain.
>>60187922East is Turkish Kurdistan
Hold Edirne, assuming they can take any ground. They don't need to actually hold Constantinople itself, they just need to be sure that nothing can pass through the Bosporus and establish staging areas on the Greece side. That assumes nothing but geographical complications, though. If we start accounting for geopolitics and real world military capabilities shit goes sideways.
>>60204997That’s Turkey came into existence in the first place lmao. Different ethnicities settled in Anatolia over centuries of Ottoman rule. There’s no such thing as a real turk in turkey
Neither would be able to invade each other.
>>60190069they recently bought 6 e lm 2084s systemsthey also have 2 green pine radars since 2019 i think they are moving into phasing out patriots and s300s with baraks and some months ago i saw some ""interest""" bout LORA rocketsthe biggest mistake greece did was not to give in to the chinese pressure to make a new canal to danube from the aegean the cost was 10 billion only which china said they will go in at 70% if that canal was being made now turkey's importance in the black sea would have instantly go to zero
Turkey vs Greece's outcome would be the same as Azerbaijan vs Armenia. Just with more bloodshed and Greeks crying "muh genocide"
>>60172656how is their navy?
Assuming turkey was the aggressor, can nato afford to kick turkey out before russia loses the war in Ukraine?
>>60204892Greece has a pretty big supply of SCALPs already
>>60207115Greece's A2G arsenal is very tiny compared to Turkey's.
>>60207153The problem is that Greece (well, Athens) isn't as centralized as Turkey (Istanbul) is. And if you're insinuating that there's a comparison between a HALE drone and cruise missiles, you are a complete retard.
>>60173113>Erdo's purges haven't helped any.This. Wouldn't underestimate what they can do, but losing Leopards in the sandbox doesn't look good for them.
>>60207079Considering Russia currently has negative 1 Black Sea Fleets there isn't a lot backing up Turkey's favorite game of playing both sides of that power struggle, so I would say yes. If anything, Turkey is only avoiding projecting power towards Europe BECAUSE they don't want to give NATO an excuse to excommunicate them now that it's clear Russia will never have meaningful naval power projection into the Mediterranean.In the next 10-20 years I expect Turkey to pick up the same faggy game of playing both teams just with NATO or the EU and China, rather than NATO and Russia, as the Belt and Road initiative develops.
>>60207170The Turkish defense industry is in central Anatolia, built mostly in the east of Ankara. Greece doesn't even have the tools to reach these locations the place. Meanwhile, the entire Greece lies within range of Turkish ballistic missiles. Also, this very drone is carrying two cruise missiles with a range well beyond 200 kilometers.
>>60207204And Turkish Tayfun Ballistic missile was already tested with a range of 900 kilometers this summer.
>>60207204They don't have to strike the defense industry, the targets have already been described ITT.
>>60207186>the same faggy gameThey have a card and they play it. You're naive if you think any other country in that position would not do that.
>>60207461But it's literal fence-sitting. They're not going to achieve whatever horseshit pipedream Erdogan imagines, there's no Islamic golden age on the horizon for Istanbul; that's self-evidently the reason Turkey is doing the balancing act with the world economic powers that its doing. If they just keep playing both sides both sides are going to culturally colonize them as soon as Erdogan dies and the next regime inherits a position of relative geopolitical strength and start playing towards their own benefit. The whole nation is going to turn into liberalized 5th columnists for the USA or China and die culturally from the outside in.
>>60207204turkey's economical center is istanbuland given how shit turkey's building code is my plan of attacking the dams might actually be positive
>>60208295Istanbul is a city of 15+ million. Greece will run out of bombs and missiles way before even putting a dent in the city. Also, the dams that matter lie 1500 km+ away from Greece. Turkey has some tools to conduct deep strike missions, but Greece doesn't have any such capability.
Greece is far behind in EW and stand off munitions but they’re starting to move on those points Supposedly the latest Rafale order included an unknown number of additional SCALP EGAlso they just purchased a package of Israeli Rampage long range air to ground missiles and SPICE glide bombs which have shown themselves to be very capable in Syria https://defea.gr/procurement-of-israeli-weapon-systems-gets-nod/Supposedly Greece is also already deploying Israeli anti-drone EW systems on Aegean islands https://www.forbes.com/sites/pauliddon/2022/07/03/greece-is-deploying-israeli-systems-to-counter-turkish-drones/amp/Not nearly enough but it’s a start, shows they’re aware of the key problems
>>60208251>defended cyprus against turkish invasionCool way to talk about a war they started
>>60172656X1 ? Wake up, SocratesThe best chance Greece has is that Turkey has multiple enemies.If turkey has only greece to worry about, goodbye to cyprus and the other islands.On the other hand, if Turkey overextends in Syria and Armenia, Greece has space to do things, first things is ending northen Cyprus bullshit.
>>60204979Their economy is a bit fucked, but wars supposedly fix bad economies.
>>60206670Countries that lack social cohesion cannot prosper. Too many parallel societies form and refuse to interact with each other. We've already seen how fucked up Sweden is from its open immigration policy. Turkey hides it better from being worse off to start with, but all those foreigners flowing in will lead to riots, terrorism and potentially civil war.
>>60211302>Countries that lack social cohesion cannot prosperEvery turk I've met is an uber nationalist that think turks are better than everyone else and hate greeks with a burning passionIt doesn't matter if there isn't such a thing as an "ethnic turk" they all think they're gods people descended from the great khan and that the ottomans conquered the world 15 times and invented the wheel
>>60211282A war with Greece would mean sanctions from Europe at the very least. How's that going to work?
>>60211375How did they deal with it in the 70's?
>>60172656With western support
>>60211396there was no war with Greece in the 70s and no EU either.
>>60211438But didn't they get embargoed by almost everyone?
>>60211883A 3 year arms embargo by the US, afaik. A nothingburger really, not comparable to EU wide sanctions.
>>60208394>Istanbul is a city of 15+ million. Greece will run out of bombs and missiles way before even putting a dent in the city.jesus lmao i cant even take turks seriously if you dont understand what im saying just dont fucking reply >Also, the dams that matter lie 1500 km+ away from Greece.its 1100 but its 470 from cyprus
>>60211958The sanctions in 1970 gave birth to Turkish defense industry. >>60212480Kek, you are damn retarded if you seriously think that Greece has any capability to strike a target 1500 km away. BTW the airbases in Cyprus are within heavy mortar/155mm range from Turkish side.
>>60212764A little military history for the ignorantA Trident carrying soldiers to Cyprus was wrecked by Turkish forces while taxiing at the Nicosia airport :D
>>60212764>Kek, you are damn retarded if you seriously think that Greece has any capability to strike a target 1500 km awayyou are a fucking idiot the ataturk dam is 1100 from ATHENS its 900 from creteand 470 from cyprus so yes they do have the capacity to do such strike > BTW the airbases in Cyprus are within heavy mortar/155mm range from Turkish sidehttps://www.timesofisrael.com/cyprus-set-to-buy-iron-dome-from-israel-report/good luck with that
Greece has like 10 million peopleTurkey has 70 million and increasingGreece has no chance even if drones did not exist it would be impossible to stop a mass attack of the Turks and NATO would not help Greece
>>60212931Iron dome missile stocks won't last against an artillery regiment. This shows how retarded you are if you seriously believe that iron dome can be useful against artillery strike of an actual army. I am not even mentioning Turkey's ability to jam enemy radars. Just sheer number of lobbed artillery shells would finish off iron dome so fast that your head would spin. And no, Greek air force doesn't have tools, safe airbases, tanker planes and expertise to conduct deep strikes in inner Anatolia.
>>60212986The median age in Greece is 50. It's a country of pensioners. The country is demographically dead. Greece doesn't have enough young men to wage anything other than some very short war. Without direct foreign intervention, Greece would die quite fact.Also another Fun fact: Number of people working for the Turkish defence industry is greater than the size of entire Greek Armed Forces.
Lmao it's just this one obsessed seething roach replying to everyone, I don't think it gets more pathetic than that
>>60213128. You are being faced by cold hard facts keep coping. You niggers were defeated in less than 24 hours when last time you got too uppity
>>60173364Except pozziya has completely defanged itself and Ukraine is going to be more fortified than Holy Terra when the war is over and we start getting our mitts on it, so Turkey as a bulwark matters fuck all and Greeks are white so we'll side with them
>>60212986Turkey has like 90 million if you include refugees from all over the middle east. Literally all they need to do to utilize arabs, afgans, kurds and other ethnicities as cannon fodder is play the islamist card like erdogan is doing
>>60172656Probably by paying the Kurds in Euro's to hit the Turks in the rear at the same time, proper call in the Bulgarians and Macedonians and every other Balkan shit hole to join in kebab removal.Assuming NATO didn't exist that is.
>>60213141>when the estrogen pills start to make you as irrational as a woman Shame you still look like a man
>>60213147Inb4 it ends up in total genocidal of those parties and in retaking of Selanik. We still remember what happened to a certain group who tried a rear attack during the WW1.
>>60213166Inb4 it ends with you going to Germany to clean toilets because bread is too expensive.Oops.
>>60213172No, I will be your swimming instructor this time.Oops.
>>60213209I'm not a Greek you fucking moron
>>60213166>be turk>boast about committing genocideoh gee I wonder if this complete lack of morals or intelligence could lead to bad outcomes, enjoy your inflation economic stagnation and gradual degradation into a tourism based economy
>>60213101>Iron dome missile stocks won't last against an artillery regimentsays who?>This shows how retarded you are if you seriously believe that iron dome can be useful against artillery strike of an actual army.i dont know lets ask israel about it> I am not even mentioning Turkey's ability to jam enemy radarsquestion have you seen any sort of topographical map of cyprus?>Just sheer number of lobbed artillery shells would finish off iron dome so fast that your head would spin.its amazing how turks always think that the rest will just sit and watch >And no, Greek air force doesn't have tools, safe airbases, tanker planes and expertise to conduct deep strikes in inner Anatolia.>toolswhat? lmao>safe airbasespretty sure they do >tankers again irrelevant as i said before unless you can turn crete into a wasteland>planesthe greeks do not have planes?THE GREEKS?lets see24+24 rafales with a combat range for A2G at 960nm 153 f16s with a combat radius of 340nm24 mirage 2000-5 with a combat radius of 990nmi do not count the f4s for both sides because well they are obsolete anyways probably will be used as a support for ashmturkey has what? 243 ""officially"" active f16s which a large number of the old ones are probably grounded to be cannibalized since turkey is sanctioned ?yesyou cant even upgrade them with your """"domestic"""" ozgur package because its not really domestic................so what exactly turkey can do against greece in that situation?lets say greece has 12 rafales in cyprus and they can carry 36 scalps in a single salvo what exactly turkey will do in that situation?let me guess they gonna pretend they dont exist and they gonna fire their artilery while the greeks will sit there siping teaturkey lacks any sort of weapon that will be able to make a difference in A2A engagement
>>60213236What Greece has is irrelevant when they have basically no defense industry at all, in case of a war they can just hope the west will replace their losses and you can't win wars through wishful thinking
>>60213252you do understand that wars aren't fought in a vacuum, it's not a duel or something like that, right?
>>60213254They thought the west would help them repel the Cyprus invasion and nobody gave a fuck. You have already lost if your army isn't self-sufficient
>>60213261>Cyprusthis isn't the 70ies any more thoughturkey isn't needed to contain the USSRthe turks have become a unreliable partner to the west with erdogans rhetoric and behaviorGreece isn't being ruled by a military junta and a borderline pariah stategreece wasn't part of the EU, while the security guarantee under NATO doesn't work for conflict between member states the security guarantee for EU members will work because turkey isn't European why to turks think that this would be a re-run of a war that happened half a century ago like nothing has changed since then?personally I hope that turkey starts shit so we can pogrom the local turk welfare leaches
>>60213252>no defence industry i mean its partly correct however its not like turkey has any that can sustain them in a war>>60213261for the longest of times everyone suspected that britain was behind the clusterfuck of cyprusthen cia declassified many of cyprus papers under foia and we learned that the brits were giving away many of the greek positions so no not sure why turks keeps the brovado of cyprus like they were the ones that won the war or something
>>60213274Turkey is still needed to contain Russia and Iran, also the 2nd largest army in NATO. Greece will get the thoughts and prayers treatment
>>60213297So the collective West will betray two major treaties, NATO and the EU as well as two separate defense pacts in order to appease Turkey, is that what you're saying?
>>60213288>however its not like turkey has any that can sustain them in a warIt definitely can>>60213303They'll give greece their thoughts and prayers but thats about it, you have no idea just how useful a neutral Turkey is to the west
>>60213297>>60213305they are only useful in containing if you can trust themunder erdogan they've shown to be unreliable and prone to opportunistic short term plays that go against the interests of the alliance and americaremember when they isolated and cut the power to an american airbase? Yea the usa hasn't and doesn't like that sort of stuff.If there is one thing the usa would want from turkey is that they kick erdogan out and unfuck themselves and as you say yourself turkey is now at best neutral. Greece is still an ally
>>60213288>so no not sure why turks keeps the brovado of cyprus like they were the ones that won the war or somethingturks and greeks are both very insecure people so they grasp for what little success they've hadthere is no one as nationalist and fanatically patriotistic as a turk living on the dole in germany that paid off his national service in turkey
>>60213305>They'll give greece their thoughts and prayers but thats about it, you have no idea just how useful a neutral Turkey is to the westSo two of the most important defense treaties (EU defense clause and NATO) will become toilet paper overnight just to appease Turkey? That's not even counting the separate defense agreements Greece has with France and the US. I'm just trying to gauge the level of your delusion.
What are you talking about? Greece already won against Turkey. Greeks saved their ass. They're in EU, they have Euro. They can move to other developed countries without visa. They're indisputably accepted as a part of the West and the civilized world. If Turkey attacks, countries like America would be happy for the opportunity to take Turkey a few notches down. It's in their interest.Then look at turkgay. Each country has cards they're dealt and they play. In the last 2 centuries there are 2 worst cards you can have: Islam and anti-West. Turkey played both. It's game over before it even begun.To keep it on topic: Install discrete anti-ship batteries on the coasts. Have bunch of F-35 with a fat stock of missiles. Base them out of Italy or something. Even if you win, maybe you won't prevent turkgay from becoming an ir*n tier drone/rocket shooting nuisance, but whatever. Don't pussy out on shit like cluster munitions. Don't pussy out on shooting every boat in Aegean including "refugee". Ez.t.urk>>60173184Trust me you don't want the modern shitstanbul.>>60213305You retards should've gotten the signals but you're too retarded for that. Turkey is cut off more and more because turks killed all the elements of friendliness or trust with the West. Just because turks think they're geniuses playing "le both sides" doesn't mean everyone agrees. Besides, "turkey is on the side of turkey" is the new narrative now even in the West. Exclusion scenario.
>>60213318Greece is a useless ally, Turkey is a useful ally. That's about it. If it was beneficial they would have separated from Turkey already.
>>60213333Is Iran a "useful ally" today? It was but it isn't today for some reason.
>>60213324Turkey is in NATO too, article 5 can't save you.
>>60213236Hilarious thinking anon. Yes, the second hand rafales, French-made wunderwaffe that can land in airbases that are within Turkish artillery range and bomb inner Anatolia. And safely return the airbase that still stands within Turkish artillery range. I hope the Greek staff is clever as you are. Ps: Turkey has hundreds of various armed drones and second largest attack helicopter fleet in NATO. That frees TurAF F-16s of their A2G duty. And Turkey still possess missiles such as Aim120c7 that can down any Greek plane.
>>60213330>Besides, "turkey is on the side of turkey" is the new narrative now even in the West.Always was, turkey was never fully on board with your faggotry.
>>60213333nice quadsbut the position of turkey or the size of it's armed forces mean jack shit if you can't trust themturkey is currently seen as a fair weather friends that you can't count on if things would turn for the worstif turkey was to attack greece that would just confirm that the turks no longer are allies or friends but have decided to join the other team and are thus enemies.if anything a war between greece and turkey with turkey as the attacker would be seen as a great way to clean turkey up from erdogan and co and make it into an ally again
>>60213340>Is Iran a "useful ally" today?No, but now its an unnecessary enemy. Just like Russia. You want Turkey to be next?
>>60213354Russia is not an unnecessary enemy, retard.
>>60213353How would the US react if some EU member would support and harbor an organization which is actively hostile to the US? They would fuck you sideways.Calling out Turkey is easy.
>>60213341Article 5 protects the defender, doesn't matter if the attacker is in NATO.
>>60213353A war with turkey would make everything nato ever got involved in as a walk in the park, literal suicide mission
>>60213355Oh right, how dare they move their country next to your military bases retard
>>60213371Yes the mighty turkish army that lost Leo's to isis bum rushing themThe mighty turkish intelligence that gets outsmarted by kurdish cave dwelling goat fuckers Your army is big, but it isn't goodAnd the moment you so much as touch a hair on the US soldiers stationed in turkey then there will be no end to the wrath and furry you'd get
>>60213381Your plan is retarded in the first place. What you warmongering retards fail to understand is that even your plan succeeds, leaving a war-torn vulnerable shithole next to your enemy would only be worse for you. I expect you to learn something from Syria, Iraq or Afghanistan
>>60213376Yeah, how dare the countries that don't want to be invaded by russia join an organization that protects them from russia.
>>60213402>warmongeringroach nigger you've done nothing but boast about how turkey would wipe the floor with a nato ally and that other countries wouldn't stop them. >if your planIf the usa wants the turkish military gone it will be gone >leaving a war-torn vulnerable shithole next to your enemyLearn to read roach, if turkey attacks Greece it already is an enemy country. Changing its leadership from those that made it an enemy country to those that will make them your friends is the best thing you could do.
>>60213341I say this as a turk this is delusional. There lots of leeway on how nations can respond to Article 5. Turkey attacking Greece would be a crisis in NATO and a huge turning point. Most powerful members will decide to support Greece over Turkey. New mechanisms will be agreed to deal with Turkey. They supported fucking Ukraine with all sorts of stuff.About the "Turkey useful against containing Russia" thing. If Turkey attacks Greece this already means Turkey is a kinetic enemy of the Western bloc, and it means Western bloc losing the Aegean choke point completely. If the idea of Turkey being so useful as a choke point against Russia is true, then defending Greece against Turkey that is uncooperative is even more important.Don't forget the Israel element, and even Egypt. Israel lobby will make sure America is involved. France is very close to to Greece and not to Turkey. They will all welcome American carriers. They will welcome every air base in the Med filling with American jets. They will welcome B-21, F-22, etc. Nothing with a Turkish flag will be allowed to float in the Aegean and Med.
>>60213436>If the usa wants the turkish military gone it will be goneCool, lets say you did that. Are you aware that you now doomed the entire country into becoming a Russian and Iranian asset? It will literally be the same outcome as Syria expect an even bigger wave of refugees that europe can't process
>>60213474Yes, if.That is if the turks refuse a cease fire and possibly to return to their ante bellum borders.The preferred course of action would be simply to convince the army to stop listening to the civies that gave the order to attack and to remove them. Failing that air attacks to degrade command and control. Followed by attacks to isolate the turks on greek soil.It would be unlikely that a campaign all the way to Ankara would be considered.But the Bosphorus would be taken along with a buffer zone. The kurds would be given the toys and air cover they need.The result would be a turkish state that has losts most of it's population, land and economy.As for refugee waves, most europeans would be in favor of kicking out any and all turks already there not in taking in more of them.>can't process Go ahead request asylum in Greece, Bulgaria or Romania.
>>60213305>It definitely canyou are not even 50% domestic on anything all usa needs to do is to ban you from buying xillinx fpga boards and you are done for literally look at turkey's ozgur program despite having a prototype back in 2007 till today there is nothing it gets worse that on their LOR to usa they asked not only for new 50 new f16s(which suggest the canibalized f16s are probably way too many)but also they want 80 upgrade packagesso......................>>60213343>the second hand rafalesdid they lost an engine or something and they cant operate?what kind of cope is that?>French-made wunderwaffe that can land in airbases that are within Turkish artillery rangei keep thinking why turks think that every other country will just sit there and wait for them to get bombed is that another massive cope or smth?>Ps: Turkey has hundreds of various armed drones and second largest attack helicopter fleet in NATO>hundredsgood luck with that anon if anything the ukranian war made them irrelevant rather quickly remember?and they were up against shorads of a generation behind now imagine against a DEW like iron dome >and second largest attack helicopter fleet in NATOyou have like 100-110 greece with the addition of the kiowas have now 99 not really something to boast >That frees TurAF F-16s of their A2G dutylmao yes lets seeyou cloned hellfire called it umtas with a range of 8kmmeanwhile greece signed the LOA for spike nloshttps://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/greece-approves-purchase-of-spike-nloswith a claimed 25km range but israel used it from a 52km range in gaza recently> And Turkey still possess missiles such as Aim120c7pretty sure greece also has them but you know what else greece has?guess which one has almost double the range
>>60213585Shut the fuck up. Ukraine showed that even fancy weapons mean jackshit if you dont have experience with them. Your 100 missiles are gone in a day. All your clay is within range of ballistic missiles. Your islands are within range of artillery. Turkey isnt interested on your mainland, theyre interested on those islands. You think this is Age of Empires where you can build and mobilize shit in an instant.
>>60213585 Cypriot airbases were devastated both ground and air fire in 1974 and Greeks didn't dare to operate their planes from the south back then. Some iron dome won't stop Turkish artillery and heavy mortar to devastate airbases in Cyprus and nearby Greek islands. And it's so fucking retarded to claim that Greece would have better air defences than Russia. Greece can't even produce and tweak screws on these systems. Lmao. How do you even dare to claim that Greece has better air defence?? Fucking imbecile. And to your protest, Turkey already fielding Kuzgun-KY and TRG-230 which gives an edge in pinpoit strike ability within 70 km range.This is a game of you can winAlso you are unaware of Gökdogan & Bozdogan missiles with their own datalink
>>60213909>Shut the fuck up.first stage of grieve>Ukraine showed that even fancy weapons mean jackshit if you dont have experience with themoh here it is the copium>Yourpretty sure YOUR missiles wont reach my country you just assume that only greeks hate turks>All your clay is within range of ballistic missiles. pretty sure turkish clay is too for the greeks>Turkey isnt interested on your mainland, theyre interested on those islands.if turkey launches an attack on those islands without air superiority they gonna get buttfucked RAWtheir landing ships gonna transform into reefs quickly >>60213911can you please try to corellate the situation and armament of the 70s to 2023?>And it's so fucking retarded to claim that Greece would have better air defences than Russiaactually in EUROPE greece LITERALLY has the only LAYERED air defence as of right nowand as i said they are getting better systems >Turkey already fielding Kuzgun-KY and TRG-230 which gives an edge in pinpoit strike ability within 70 km range.again im assuming that the enemy doesnt operate anything right?>This is a game of you can winagreed greece can win >with their own datalinkyeah we keep hearing about the turkish amphidromous datalinks for the better part of 10 years which in any case means nothing its not like they gonna give an edge that link 16 doesnt havelike wtf is that cope anyways thats like greece say>hey our tanks have wispr multi tdl modules and we can also give range to drones does it matter at all?
>>60214009LOL, seriously believing that Greece has better air defence system than Russia. Your are dumb even by Greek standards.OH by the way the layered air defence system of Armenia got wrecked by Turkish Sead magic.
>>60214031>LOL, seriously believing that Greece has better air defence system than Russia. Your are dumb even by Greek standards.i said europe for a reason but as always i dont expect a turk to understand letters and words
>>60214031>OH by the way the layered air defence system of ArmeniaWhich fantasy book are we talking about?
>>60214241Anon, you have already proven yourself as an idiot by claiming that Greece has better air defense than Russia. Despite the fact that Greece's input in developing and producing these systems is absolute zero, and doctrinal-wise greek knowledge is at the bottom because they didn't fight a war in the last 70 yearsMEANWHILE Turkey actually developing both the system & doctrine. And fielding missiles with a +100 km range, that actually shuts down half of the Aegean Sea to Greek aviation.
>>60172656get russia bulgaria serbia and romania involvedall of them have a history with the ottomans support kurds armenians and georgians in the east try and cordinate with syria iraq and iran to keep the southern front going stretch out turkeys resources with multiple fronts and then out gun them using a coalition of nations with a personnel past with turkey try and goat turkey into the offensive so you can claim defensive war make claims of genocide try and get support from the international community and condemnation of turkey's violent warmongering try and expand it to un or possibly nato intervention if possible buy cheap missile systems and drones from china in mass suicide boats etc to overlord turkish defenses
>>60214868>"Let's attempt a gangbang!">russiaLol>bulgaria, serbia, romaniaTriple lol>kurds and armenians>How to make an entire population ultra-nationalistYou know what will happen? All of those parties get fucked and slapped so hard, that you'll end up in geneva after two weeks, crying for a ceasefire. Plus you'll lose clay in the process because the turkish poplation will thirst for your krokodil infested blood. Wake up you fucking retard.
>>60214397>Anon, you have already proven yourself as an idiot by claiming that Greece has better air defense than Russia.anon i understand that your lack of lingustic understanding is impending your understanding of .....a language but please stop gaslighting>Despite the fact that Greece's input in developing and producing these systems is absolute zeroand? is hisar turkish? its literally a copy past of iris -t you just brought diehl into the party because you didnt want to get a strike at wto with your blatand cloning>and doctrinal-wise greek knowledge is at the bottom because they didn't fight a war in the last 70 yearswell given how well turkey learned from their mistakes i have high hopes for greece actuallyimagine sending leopards into syria without any sort of protection >, that actually shuts down half of the Aegean Sea to Greek aviation.is this a joke? im bored to draw a circle at google early but im pretty sure shutting down the aegean with only 100km range is laughable you have no real grasp about the sizes here the only thing you can shut down with that range is few FLAT greek islands because even i know that the majority of the greek islands are mountainous idiot
>>60214933the eastern half of turkey is falling apart they are caught up in syria and iraq and azerbaijan they are overextendedmost of turkeys equipment is outdated besides the kurds are already in open rebellion being openly supressed by the turkish governmentyou make it sound like turkey is the usaor that outside forces from the anglosphere france and the usa wouldn't be involved on greeces side and who says greece has to be on the offensive stay put and fight like rebel groups in the middle east shoot and scoot most of turkeys population would be immigrating to europe alongside their rapefugee comprades
>>60215206>and? is Hisar Turkish? It's literally a copy past of iris -t you just brought diehl into the party because you didnt want to get a strike at wto with your blatand cloningSeethe and dilate nigger. LMAO. Your nation can't even build small arms ordnance. Meanwhile, Turkey is fielding its own layered AA system of systems.>well given how well turkey learned from their mistakes i have high hopes for greece actually imagine sending leopards into syria without any sort of protection Yes, Turkey captured an area size of the entire Israel with minimal casuaties. And afterwards ran mission in Karabakh and exterminated a well dug in enemy :D>Is this a joke? im bored to draw a circle at google early but im pretty sure shutting down the aegean with only 100km range is laughableThat missile here has versions that can pick and engage planes from 150 kilometers away :DDDD some technology greeks can't even grasp an iota of it. You can't even build walkie-talkies.
>>60215289>Seethe and dilate nigger. LMAO. Your nation can't even build small arms ordnance. Meanwhile, Turkey is fielding its own layered AA system of systems.my nation well half of it made the p90 and the other half made what we know now as shahed but regardless of this >its ownits not yours never was >Yes, Turkey captured an area size of the entire Israel with minimal casuatiesminimal casualtiesyou sent mbt's inside of syria without infantry support you lost 10 tanks in 3 days 60 kebabs and 700 of your terrorist buddies the fsa that had to rename themselfs to feel more democratic meanwhile the sdf lost 40 people out of the 10.000 they fielded and it wasnt even you that captured the land LMAO it was al francy and his men >That missile here has versions that can pick and engage planes from 150 kilometers away im not sure where you actually learned technology and geography but again the majority of the greek islands are mountainous all they have to do is to hide behind the mountains and just throw harm's at you
>>60215357Datalink & RF nigger, have you heard about it? That missile can be guided via man in the loop. It doesn't need to see the target directly when launched. OMG you are such an imbecile.
>>60215420>plane hides behind a natural rf blocker>missile is on the air>nobody can see the plane>USE THE DATALINK who is gonna provide the datalink anon? your AEWC will be operating ahead of the radar coverage exposing it to enemy missiles?gee i wonder why greeks dont take any of you seriously
>>60215459Your little brain can't comprehend anon but they have relay & bridge drones & other drones fitted with AESA. Turkey has its network running already. They have already shot down Sukhoi from 70 km+ range with such setup.
>its not yours never was This is the best cope against an indigenous Turkish product. I love this board, it's so entertaining.
Roketsan just shared this, LUMTAS-GM block 1 NLOS missile :DDD
>>60215488>our little brain can't comprehend anonoh?>but they have relay & bridge drones & other drones fitted with AESA. >im gonna throw 2 words into my answer in order to sound smartso you gonna use your AEWC ahead of the enemy fire using your akinci drones to provide data coverage imagine actually saying this and more to actually believe it >Turkey has its network running already.>networkbahahah>They have already shot down Sukhoi from 70 km+ range with such setup.imagine lying in a board with knowledgeable peopleyes the "such setup" was you throwing an aim 120 on a su 24 first gen that didnt had rwr on it using link 16 from your aewcwhich resulted into you getting an NFZ for the better part of 10 months while russia was accidentally bombing your soldiers and your terrorist buddies
>>60215662Anon stop posting you only humiliate yourself. Suddenly you will find out that Turkey is decades ahead of Greece in terms of military technology. Turkey has access to tech Greece can't even dream of