Why are US soldiers still issued implements whose sole intents and purposes are to deter calvary chargesIm talking of course about the bayonet
>>59593760Because it's badass, faggot
>>59593760This thread again.Bongs have had bayonet kills in every war they've been in which implies they're useful in close quarters
Idk but I want to fuck that boy.
>>59593760>calvaryEat shit retard. I bet you pronounce it that way too
>>59593760The simple knife is your most trustworthy and useful tool in daily living. From opening canned food to batoning firewood, the simple bayonet does it all.
>>59593760Gotta be ready to give someone a more personal touch
>>59593760because having a knife at hand is very handyif you can put the knife on your gun and turn it into a pointy stick then that's all the better
>>59593760Hmmmm yes, lets not give soldiers a knife, which if they wish to, can attach to their gun, having multifunctionality.When the enemy comes they should be screaming "ITS NOT FAIR" and the enemy will just stop
>>59593760Bayonets are for use against infantry. It used to be that reloading took too long at close quarters so the bayonet served as a stabbing spear. Dedicated pikemen protected the musketeers from cavalry.
>>59593792Just look to other effective modern armies like Israel, who don’t bother with bayonets and have had no identifiable problems.>inb4 fighting le arabs is differentThe Chinese and Russians are the exact same and Arabs
>>59593760It also deters individuals from trying to rush a soldier and take his rifleStill valuable
>>59593832No. The Arabs are notoriously even worse than the Russians. Historically, the Arabs have failed to perform even according to Russo-Soviet standards, which themselves were already made for an illiterate peasant army with no NCO corps.
>>59593843Perhaps (I won’t argue about that stuff) but none of that can be demonstrated to have anything to do with requiring bayonets. The criticism would be about airpower and combined arms capabilities, not close quarters.
>>59593832What's your point? They clearly work. It's a spike attached to your rifle, and when you're within a couple of feet of your enemy if you run out of ammo you can stab 'em. Bayonet charges have worked well all this time, so they objectively serve a purpose. Whether or not army X decide to use them doesn't change that
>>59593760>pop-sci tier knowledge of military historythe bayonet charge was a quintessential offensive component of every decisive victory
>>59593859but the main use of the bayonet isn't close in fighting. It's a tool for daily life in the field that you can also put on your gun.bayonet drill is a fun bit of training, like a light duty or a day off compared to other parts of training. A good bit of fun tough a bit silly at first but once you get in to it running around with a knife and stabbing things is fun and get's the blood pumping with all the screaming and shouting.
>>59593868In which case will they grant any difference in outcome while fighting China or Russia? If they won’t, they’re extra baggage and a waste of precious training time
>>59593881It’s not really a necessary tool for a modern army. Could be useful in some cases. Not justified though.
>>59593889>issuing a knife is le bad because>IT JUST IS OKAYWe should ban all newfags permanently
>>59593832Also it's worth noting that Isreal used bayonets in all their major wars that involved fighting actual nations and their armies, and bought around 100K bayonets to go with their M-16s.Only their most recent rifles don't do bayonetshttps://worldbayonets.com/Bayonet_Identification_Guide/Israel/israel_2.html
>>59593882well maybe, you've seen ukies clearing trenches and fighting at point blank range. Seeing as everyone could really use a knife and probably already carry knives, why not issue knives that attach to the rifle as a bonus? At this point I dunno what the point of this argument is
>>59593889>a knife is not a tool for a modern army>
better question when was the last time someone to brained with a butt stock or pistol whipped ?I dont think modern guns are up to the task>>59593760>to kill kill kill with cold blue steelplus its handy for use as a steak knife or prybar to open C rations
>>59593889I can't tell you how many small thing out in the field are done with a knife.opening things, cutting things or working them a bit like trimming a branch, killing, gutting and cleaning a rabbit caught during survival training.If you ever have to mount bayonets in anger you'l have used it as a tool thousands of times over.Honestly it's like bitching about why soldiers get safety matches or a lighter. Or condoms, why'd you need condoms? but somehow the condoms get used constantly.
>>59593870But not because of the bayonet itself. The charge is the decisive action that breaks the enemy's spirit and routs them, and it does so still even today without a knife attached to your rifle. Actual bayonetry is an infinitesimal part of a charge or its success, and historically very few soldiers were actually wounded by bayonet. Melees were less often fought, as morale breaks before you get close enough to count nose hairs. Units like forlorn hope and elite shock troops were a thing specifically because they'd actually get up to people and fight properly.
>>59593908You can issue them sure just not drill them in it because it’s ridiculous. and a standard folding knife would probably be better though I can’t quite say
>>59593889Combat is a tiny part of warfare. The rest of the time you still need to live and eat and shit and do whatever. A standard issue knife ensures each soldier has a reliable tool at hand to do so with.You spend more time doing fieldcraft than you do fighting, if you're out in the field.
>>59593882>we've already established bayonet charges have been useful in wars as recent as afghanistan>so training on using them is therefore a waste of time???>bayonet training takes like a day...At this point - you didn't realise bayonets were useful, it turns out they are, so you can just go with "oh interesting I never knew that" and go about your day
>>59593882The CQC benefit of actually stabbing an enemy with a bayonet is secondary to the required mindset you develop through bayonet training, that of ruthless aggression.In CQB it's constantly fight or die and you need to develop an aggressive response because hesitation is death.Besides, it's the one of the first things that recruits do that are actually related to killing the enemy, and it's a good frustration and anger vent
>>59593923why is it rediculous? Buildings have been cleared with bayonets in afghanistan, trenches have been cleared with bayonets in the falklands, the fact they are used succesfully means they are useful, please stop being retarded on purpose
>>59593917and the threat that made the enemy flee was the idea of getting into bayonet combat. further, the bayonet enabled the convergence of pikemen and arquebusiers into a single formation, increasing the depth of the charge. it's an essential component to making it work. the swedish tried to equip their musketeers with shortswords and back them up with pikemen, it got us raped a few times until we changed to socket bayonets. if you lack the bayonet and one side has them, you turbo die. see: british-ashanti wars
>>59593964>and the threat that made the enemy flee was the idea of getting into bayonet combatBut enemies still flee even without bayonets being used in the charge. It's not the fear of the bayonet itself, it's the idea of getting into decisive deadly combat with someone right in front of you. The idea of getting into a fight that's 100% kill-or-die right NOW. VERY few people are actually capable of doing that reliably. The old adage from mister Heraclitus:>Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, 80 are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.points out the dynamic.>the swedish tried to equip their musketeers with shortswords and back them up with pikemen, it got us raped a few times until we changed to socket bayonets.Are you sure it was the bayonets and not just bad doctrine and knowledge? I mean, if you're going for swords instead of bayonets, it seems to me that the military leadership are taking missteps doctrinally in general, so failure is to be expected.
>>59593760>OP asks sarcastic question>gets thorough answersgood work /k/
>>59593951>>59593988Like I said, israel does fine against those same Arabs without bayonets. So they’re unnecessary. There are many insignificant things that could be affective in one crazy situation but you don’t drill the entire army in them because it’s a ridiculous waste.
>>59593808no on replied 2 u but i thought 'huh neat' lookin at it anon sorry about every1 else
>>59594006no, like I said, they fought against them with bayonets in every major war until recently, buying 100,000 bayonets in the 80's and using bayonets on their Galils and M-16s. Every conflict with them versus an actual military of a country saw them equipped with bayonets, and I posted a link with an actual list of all the ones they were issued but you just want to ignore it. So your central premise is wrong anyway.Secondly, I posted 3 example conflicts, one against the taliban, one against iraqi army and one against the argentinians. So stop bleating about "the arabs" who the isrealis fought whilst issued with bayonets. You've literally done nothing to establish your point at all. The facts are:> bayonets are useful in modern wars, and have been used effectively in those wars> bayonet drills take up practically zero training> even if you don't use the bayonet the training has benefits to fostering aggression in soldiers> all soldiers need to carry knives anyway> Making a knife that you can also fight with and attach to your rifle adds zero burden> The israelis issued their soldiers with bayonets in every major conflict they've fought in
>>59593760You just don't appreciate anglogang. Where your last resort may be to try desperately to disengage, retreat or hide, anglogang has an extra choice to run headlong at the enemy with something sharp and pointy at the end of their gun while screaming at full force. There's few who can withstand it.
>>59594082Isn't the US part of the anglogang? They don't train the charge anymore, do they?
>>59594082The Japanese were probably better at that than anglos. And many armies had and have bayonets
>>59593808God damn son
>>59594082https://www.wearethemighty.com/popular/modern-bayonet-charge/The french surrender monkeys merked some bosnians with bayonets in the 90's. I dunno if this makes them honorary members of anglogang
>>59594119While this is probably stupid, I do pity the day China tries to go to island war in the pacific with the country that has the crayon water branch of the military whose dream is to do just that again and again until every Asian male is dead
>>59593760Because after all this time, the spear is still the peak of melee weaponry.Guess what your rifle turns into when you stick a knife on the front.
>>59594233Spear is peasant's weapon. Meant for people too gutless to charge the enemy lines and murder them.The sword is the tool of true warriors.
>>59594246Why do you think swordsmen were better paid and more valued throughout history? Any farmer can be drilled to hold ranks with a spear in hand, but it takes an actual warrior to arm themselves with a sword and close in with the enemy.
>>59594259Still terrible. No racism. No accusing people of being shills. You’re not good at this.
>>59594097Dont be stupid
>>59593870>the bayonet charge was a quintessential offensive component of every decisive victoryit was but can you name 5 people who died to a bayonet?
>>59594319Yeah but I cannot due to the statute of limitations
>>59593832Israel issued and used them in anger up until they adopted a bullpup. If your argument is that the bayonet is completely useless on a bullpup, then I doubt you'd get much disagreement here.
>>59593760instant riot control stickvery useful
>>59594352Israel only used them on the m16 in ceremonial situations and ditched them before the bullpups
>>59593832>The Chinese and Russians are the exact same and ArabsAnon the puccians can count themselves lucky to even get a gun.
>>59593760Because they’re badass you zoomer faggot
>>59594259forlorne hauffe got double pay because they had the most risky jobswordmasters got double pay because they where trained and brought more equipment and would often serve as body guards to commanders or function in nco like rolesNot gonna pick about training/social role ect but the reason they got paid more wasn't because they got "valued more" but because they served different roles in Landsknecht formations
>>59593760Considering that it's not like it adds a ton of weight, isn't it better to have it and not need it than to not have it at all?Especially since a knife is a survival tool used for a lot of shit in the field
>>59593760so they can stab the socialists
>>59594434>but the reason they got paid more wasn't because they got "valued more"That is literally what their wage directly represents. Their wage is a DIRECT estimation of their value by the subjects at hand.
>>59593760>issue soldier knife :0>issue soldier knife with ring on it so you can put it on your rifle >:(what a faggot you are OP
>>59593760cause Pigs need Stickin
>>59596009second to last on the left is kinda cute
>>59593760Bayonets are incredibly cheap, training with them is a great way to mix up physical training & develop the needed aggressive mindset, they can be used for other things like a utility knife and there is a small chance that it may save your life.There may be a time when some us infantryman finds himself without air support, running out of ammunition and about to be over run by the enemy. If he and his mates can respond with extreme aggression and a pointy stick they might change the outcome.Honestly even if it was just used for the mindset training it would 200% be worth it.
>>59593760I was an infantryman from 2014-2021. Literally never got a bayonet issued. In any unit or circumstance. Never trained with them either.
Bayonets are a psychological tool that galvanizes attackers and defenders alike while demoralizing their enemes.
>>59593760So you can stab people.What kind of question is this How else would you stab an enemyWith a knifeWant better rangeAttach it to a stickWant more rangeMake the stick fire out a tiny knife at people that explodes themIt's called a bulletBut let's say you have your enemy right in front of you and you can just stab them with a knife You stab them with a knife on your stickTo kill themYou see knives are pieces of metal, that are sharpened. They cut into people or meat. It's one of the first tools mankind has ever made. Now at war you want to hurt or dominate or scare your enemy Knives do all three. So you have a knife at war. And you want the most range with your knife. So you have bullets and bayonets.Is this simple enough
>>59593889>It’s not really a necessary tool for a modern army.Outside combat, it absolutely is a necessary tool for a modern army.
>>59593832it’s only natural that the foreskin cutters would snip their rifles by not issuing bayonets. bayonets are based. no bayonets is cringe. simple as.
>>59594352I disagree, diggers have gotten kills with bayonets mounted to their AUGs in Afghanistanand on people who were actively fighting back, too
>>59596052that one second from the right probably reverse cowboys on my face, I'm after that82PKM0
>>59593799Kazuma is not for lewd
>>59593760Bayonets are mainly used for riot control and prisoner handling.>>59593889Knives will be in every soldier's kit until the end of history.
>>59593808Clip your nails you fatass fuck.
>>59593760We don't get issued bayonets lol. They're still laying around in armories, but no gets issued them unless the CO is a retard or troll. The US Army stopped bayonet training in basic back in like 2010.
>>59596009All. Consecutively. Repeatedly.
>>59594352Fuck no put a big chopper on your aug. Drop a cunt in two halves
>>59593832>They're the exact same as ArabsNo, they aren't. Now that I've completely dismantled your retarded fucking argument, consider the following facts before you kill yourself:>Any amount of success by any other actors would not invalidate the successes of the British military>The Israelis do not have an effective modern army, they have performed poor to mediocre in every war they've had and been saved by western benefactors and an admirable willingness to change their TTPs (something Arabs are incapable of doing)>The Israeli military issued bayonets with all of the rifles they used during their "successful" periods and only introduced the Tavor during their current occupation namek arc
>>59593917>Just run at them and threaten a melee action without the ability to conduct one broOkay, I'll grab a knife, you run at me until my spirit breaks you stupid mouthbreaking fuckwit
>>59593760There will never be a point in history where a cutting tool is not needed, and there will never be a point in warfare where someone somewhere might need to be stabbed. Attaching the cutting tool you have to the stick you carry is an easy and cheap thing to do.
>>59593760Because even in the far future where we're shooting miniature black holes through a guys skull or glassing a planet with antimatter, soldiers will still carry blades because there will always be an enemy that needs a good stabbing
>>59593760Because USA knows that their enemy Russia will sooner or later resort to cavalry charges again
>>59593760See this? This little piece of metal? What DISADVANTAGES would there be to putting it on a rifle? There's no reason not to. The soldier is already going to be carrying a knife for utility. And it's still pretty useful when policing civilians from intimidation alone.That's why bayonet charges caused a rout instead of a widespread knife fight. The human mind recognizes that the prospect of being stabbed is scary.
>>59596711I like this. It looks like a Bullpup Thompson
>>59593760It doubles as a knoife in the field and if you completely run out of ammunition having a pointy bit at the end of your bangstick is better than nothing. I believe they have actually been affixed several times and even scored a few kills so beyond the utility of having a knoife they are worth the cost to make them.
>>59593760>exasperated/smug anime picture>dumbfuck retard takelike clockwork
>>59596009id fug all of theme except the granny
>>59593760Because it's a knife and the knife is probably the single most useful and practical tool ever devised by mankind.
>>59593832>bayonets are useless on bullpups The British and Australians disagree.
>>59596860I will fuck
>>59593760>need a knife>it takes minimal effort to make that knife attach to a rifle>rifle with knife is a spearSo you would prefer them be issued with a knife that can't attach to their rifle or do you think safety scissors are better?
>>59593760Because a knife is useful for tons of applications in war and if you can add an option to mount it on a rifle you might as well. Imagine clearing trenches in a big war like Ukraine. Wouldn't you want the option of being able to stab someone if you needed to, even if you rarely used it?
>>59593792>Bongs have had bayonet kills in every war they've been inBong officers probably get court martialed or at least highly encouraged to resign in shame if they pass up an opportunity for a good bayonet charge.
>>595937601) Every soldier needs a fixed blade knife anyways as a tool 2) Enabling such a tool to be put at the tip of a barrel doesn't make it less practical3) It's always good to have a final option before "hands up"4) Bayonet training teaches aggressiveness5) Studies have shown that aorta leakage reduces the will to fight significantly within a very short timeframe6) Bayonets are very good at keeping people at bay because a blade looks more menacing than a barrel7) IN CQB bayonets make it much harder for an enemy to grab a rifle by the barrel and wrestle it into another direction8) OP is a giant cocksucking faggot - as usual
>>59593760A knife is a multifunctional piece of kit, extremely valuable.A bayonet lug is a negligible addition to a rifle.Bayonet training is good for cardio and teaching close quarters combat, both of which proveably still matter.Ergo, there is no good reason to delete bayonets or their training.By the way, receiving cavalry charges was never the sole or even principle purpose of the bayonet.
>>59593760>extremely effective tool/show of force when directing prisoners or non-combatents. It just has that extra edge of I better watch out how that guy with the bayonet moves his rifle and he can even prod with it>more dangerous than a knife in your hand when you're out of ammunition They're pretty small and worth it for those reasons.>>59603852Maybe, I'd be worried about the extra length getting in the way near such narrow spaces but I can only imagine what it'd be like.>>59597773>doubles as the beater knife / pry barMost are pretty shit. I think the marine bayonet is the only functional knife as a knife.>>59597677>What DISADVANTAGES would there be to putting it on a rifle? There's no reason not toLarger silhouette to give away position and snag point. The rest I 100% agree with you and it's fantastic
>>59593760>konosuba image>the most retarded shit you'll read all dayClassic.
>>595960093 2 6 1 5 4
>>59593760They're cool. Its to make the soldiers feel tough like they fight for a living just like the glorious warriors of old rather than being an interchangeable meat component for point gun and pull trigger. Linking the instinctual gravitas of hand-to-hand fighting to the dispassionate, effeminate act of shooting is crucial to fermenting the critical tribal psychology that has made man slaughter man for all human history.
>>59593760Why not? They have to give them knives anyways. Might as well make the knife a bayonet.
They’re cool as fuck that’s why. Go get pegged by Sylvia, Kazuma
>>59593760>Anime picture>Retarded postClockwork.
>>59593760Soldiers are going to need a knife anyway, why not just add the ring so they can be more effective in the off-chance they need it?
>>59593832The Chinese and Russians have bayonetsIf a Chinese and American ran out of ammo at close range, and the American doesn’t have a bayonet, he’s at the disadvantage
Ultimate answer to this thread: its cool
>>59593889>issuing a knife that also happens to attach to the end of your rifle isn't justified