>TOKYO -- The U.S. Navy is studying the use of Japan's private shipyards to maintain, repair and overhaul its warships in a bid to reduce servicing backlogs back home -- an idea that could expand to South Korea, Singapore and the Philippines.If realized, the move would signal a new level of integration with allies and partners as the U.S. maneuvers in the face of a now-larger Chinese naval fleet.U.S. Ambassador to Japan Rahm Emanuel is leading the efforts, speaking with members of Congress and mobilizing embassy staff to reach out to the Japanese government, Nikkei Asia has learned.>The Japanese shipbuilding industry is likely to welcome the idea. Japan was once one of the world's most prominent shipbuilding nations but has recently lost market share to China and South Korea. Shipyards have been forced to converge to save costs. A constant flow of repair work from the U.S. Navy would be a boon for the industry.In the past, the Navy has used shipyards in Japan, India and the Philippines to repair logistics ships, such as auxiliary vessels and replenishment oilers. But the new concept envisions expanding this in a fundamental way to include warships, such as destroyers, cruisers and amphibious ships forward-deployed to Japan, a U.S. official told Nikkei Asia.https://archive.is/20230524092244/https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/International-relations/Indo-Pacific/U.S.-turns-to-private-Japan-shipyards-for-faster-warship-repairs
>The Navy also envisions conducting short-term maintenance on continental-U.S.-based warships that transit through the region to reduce the burden on American shipyards squeezed by labor shortages.>Nuclear-powered ships, such as aircraft carriers and submarines, are not part of the consideration.>The U.S. is also interested in exploring industrial partnerships between Japanese and American shipyards to expand capacity in both countries for maintaining and manufacturing naval vessels, a U.S. official said.
>>58334845>Rahm Emanuel It’s always, always, always them with these ideas.
>>58334870I like the idea however its an idea that didn't start with him but under the previous ambassador >In April 2019, the U.S. Navy experimented with repairing a warship in a Japanese shipyard, when the missile-guided destroyer USS Milius entered dry dock at Mitsubishi Heavy Industries' Yokohama Dockyard and Machinery Works.
>>58334845honestly this would be amazing. Toyotas are great cars.
It's a good idea as long as it doesn't step on the toes of politicians.
>>58334845what happened to American shipyard? why can't they maintain their own ship? how are American going to compete with China like this?
>>58335042retard, if they can keep the ships in japan, they dont need to schlep it all the way back to america for refit. The pacifc is like 50% of the earths circumference.
>>58335012Toyotas are a bitch to service and not any better quality wise than the other cars on the road. Whatever made them good stopped happening a long time ago.
We weren't already doing this? I just assumed this would be part of having a naval ally
>>58334845I would state the concern of certain foreigner workers and Japanese Koreans that might pose as security concerns for tending to warships but the whole military is practically the FFL at this point.>>58335030There should be congressmen trying to get their respective coastal districts the benefit of doing this, no?Here in Ohio they did what they could to keep Lima’s plant up and running to keep votes and some lifeblood in that poor area but judging by the current global circumstances it certainly paid off.
>>58335063>Noting the successful experience of repairing a U.S. Navy ship in India last summer, Del Toro said, "We're also looking at other opportunities throughout Asia as well to where we might be able to do that as well to perhaps in the Philippines and Singapore and other places like that."You've slowly been expirementing with it. Before China's rise there was no urgent need to look beyond your shipyards. However China's rapid success and the closure of some American shipyards has put pressure on your cunt to act now
>>58335072>There should be congressmen trying to get their respective coastal districts the benefit of doing this, no?West coast districts who historically did that kind of work are populated by ultra-lefty champaign communists. At least politically. Mare Island is luxury condos now.You would have to build new from scratch far away from the urban weirdos. Grays Harbor or someplace and even then there would be a huge fight against the various hippy activist groups.
>>58335042Retardo, they can use Japanese shipyards to maintain ships without going back to america. This gives America the opportunity to have ships out at sea in a more efficient manner.
>>58335563these faggots are brainrotted by /pol/ and that one probably doesn't know that the 7th fleet operates from japan anon, just let him have his little hate party about asians
Kind of a no-brainer. Japs are good at ships, US is struggling to meet its deliveries, and you don't want to make your forward deployed ships cross the ocean pointlessly.
>>58335569They also don't understand that this increase america's ability to do force projection.
>>58335072Japanese and South Korean shipyards already produce and service their own aegis destroyersMuch of the aegis tech is licensed to Japan and South Korean navy
>>58335059And yet they’re some of the longest lived vehicles out there if you care for them.
>>58334845>us navy 2030: flip-spic crewed ships built in nip-gook shipyardsyeah real rome moment
>>58335699actually>us navy 2030: at bottom of taiwan strait sunk by PLAAN with ease
>>58334845The nips are cool. They’d probably do an excellent job compared to the mismanaged union workers and lazy niggers we have here. Fuck the state department cock sucking faggots who brush away safety concerns though, but on the other hand all the tech gets stolen stateside anyway. There’s probably nothing on any of our ships that the chinese don’t already know about.
>>58335699The globalists are finally using the globe. Rejoice.
>>58334868>>Nuclear-powered ships, such as aircraft carriers and submarines, are not part of the consideration.Dang, I was hoping this might help speed up the delivery of our nuclear submarines
>>58335973Who knows. There might be another reinterpretation soon>prease understand, is not the bad type of nucrear submarine. This is nucrear-power underwater destroyer with purery defensive ballistic missile cells
>>58336054>VLS onry fires defensive SM-3 prs understand
>>58335973> I was hoping this might help speed up the delivery of our nuclear submarinesAUKUS is meant to deal with that. Shared access to repair/maintenance and US and Australia will inject more money into US shipyards to hopefully speed up delivery.
>>58335708and not due to any technological deficiency either. the super duper diversity squad bridge crew just forgot to turn half their systems on.
>>58336054>>58336065>They don't knowJapan wants to put tomahawks and maybe HGVs on their Taigeis or the next class.
>>58336345DEFENSIVE SM-3 ONRY NO TOMAHARWK TO SEE HERE
>>58335708Chinese wet deck supa idol deshou technorogy!!!!! China navy pre-sink ship before gwairo so China win with no casuarty by enemy!!!
>>58336345>>58336372Prease, I beg your understanding. Perhaps it ROOK rike we nearly prepared nucrear triad but we merely have space research rocket not ICBM, purery defensive F-35 which we not want to use like stearth fighter-bomber, and we are consideling VLS only for plotection.Also many ton of prutonium is for uh... repurposing. Definitery no more use.
>>58336408>He doesn't know>Toshiyuki Shikata, a Tokyo Metropolitan Government adviser and former lieutenant general, claimed that part of the rationale for the fifth M-V Hayabusa mission was that the reentry and landing of its return capsule demonstrated "that Japan's ballistic missile capability is credible"
>>58334870You don't even know who he is, you fucking nonce.
>>58334845This will piss off labor; even if it does go through it might convince Congress to open up a few new naval yards.
>>58336509Labor can't keep up with demand
>>58334845>>58335072They already do this with aircraft, so I don't think its a big deal.https://www.nippi.co.jp/aircraft/usa.html
>>58336597Doesn’t matter. Contracts are contracts. Not like those matter anymore either. In short, nothing matters. Say hello to your new neighbors Maria and Paco. Enjoy paying for their kids while having none of your own. Cheers m8
>>58336464He was a prominent politician lolAre you underageb&?
>>58335072Japanese workers already work on ships stationed in Japan including CVNs and have been for decades. There are some restricted spaces they can not enter such as anything dealing with nuclear propulsion. But they are some of the best workers I've ever seen and are leagues ahead of American unionized shipyard workers in terms of efficiency and quality of work.
>>58336509>this will piss off laborMaybe labor shouldn't constantly demand for wage increases that result in everyone becoming so expensive they have to demand another wage increase.
>>58336978JMSDF guys are great too. Friendly guys who keep their ships in excellent shape, in my experience.
>>58336998I've worked alongside them as well they are in my opinion the most professional force I've encountered so far.
>>58334845Good. Ukraine should do the same.
>>58336986Wages haven't kept up with inflation. They're within their rights to ask for more money.But they need way more money.
>>58336509Labor was fucked the moment they made themselves dependent on the party that wants to replace them with thirdies and robots in that order There's a reason why it's its own thing in every other country
>>58335042In the (possible) future conflict with China, it will be a hell of a lot easier and faster if a damaged ship would just have to make it to a Japanese drydock for repairs/overhauls instead of all the way back across the Pacific. For that, however, those installations need experience in working with those ships.
>>58336986They figured the post WW2 era would never end.>>58337734Yeah because Labour really cares about the working man. Most workers movements have been gutted by college socialists who will never turn a wrench in their lives.
>>58334868I gotta hate it when you post unlabeled graphs. What is the Y axis here? Total tonnage? Number of ships? Does a dinghy count the same as a carrier? Without more context the graph doesn't mean shit.
>>58336464I know (((everything))) I need to.
>>58337776Nta, I think it’s number of hulls.
If you want ships made well and fast. You go to Japan Shipyards. To this day, nobody has made a BB larger than Yamato. And no tanker bigger than Knock Knevis. We also should not be using American companies for making armored units, diesel power trains, tanks. Like the only thing America is good at is probably jet engines, and GT freight train engines/cars.
>>58337802>We also should not be using American companies for making armored units, diesel power trains, tanks.Why? American companies have been able to provide all of those in both quality and quantity.
>>58337822Every unit complains STRYKER and Bradley are very unreliable. Not Chieftain Leyland unreliable. But 1990s Malaise GM tier. Which is why there is new replacement coming. Rather have HINO or Komatsu made 6-Wheeler / 8 Wheeler. When I want heavy machinery powered by V8 Turbo Diesel I want the person who made it to gave a fuck.
>>58337949Caterpillar makes excellent turbo diesels as well. People complaining about the Stryker would complain if Komatsu made the engine as well, because they’d still be beat to shit and maintained by retards. We don’t hear about Japanese complaints because they’re in Japanese and their equipment sees far more limited use.
>>58337949No one complains Bradley or Stryker are unreliable
>>58335063The Japanese SRF was already doing work on US warships that are based at Japanese bases. The "news" here seems to be that the USN is considering farming out more of that work to the off base private yards, which honestly isn't a terrible idea. They also mentioned performing work on US ships that were just passing through.>pssst>hey anon>this was already happening back in the early gwot days, but apparently everybody already forgot about that
>>58335072>There should be congressmen trying to get their respective coastal districts the benefit of doing this, no?There is no Congressman on the Pacific Coast who wouldn't be glad to see the US military disbanded
>>58336464he's a fucking jew. that's all I need to know, you fucking jew.
>>58338101they probably do but it's likely just idle bitching that soldiers do. the stryker is just using a caterpillar engine, for example. if it was actually unreliable they'd have a lot more complaints than just soldiers
>>58336464What a stupid post, idiotic bong showing off his ignorance of his betters once again
>>58334898>>58335012>>58335054>>58335063>>58335574>>58335717This is perhaps one of the worst ideas I’ve ever seen, and it opens the door to an absolute avalanche of possibilities that all get worse. If you are struggling with domestic shipyards, and you have a vast navy that’s integral to both your defense and economy, do you…A. Invest heavily into fostering a robust series of shipyards domestically, that both benefits your domestic population with worthwhile employment, and continues the tradition, education, and infrastructure of maintaining your own massive navy. (And serving as an absolute powerhouse of naval production during a time of war) ORB. Simply contract out your maintenance to foreign workers, thus undercutting your OWN INDUSTRY and thus making all of the problems you had to even consider this course of action in the first place even worse. This is an absolute no brainer, the US must maintain a massive capability to build, repair, and maintain its navy. I understand that we have an entire fleet that is hosted in Japan. We have had this for decades, some repairs are already done there, but nothing major unless absolutely necessary because it’s exponentially more valuable to do the major overhauls in the United States and support our own nation’s ability to continue to do that. People like Rahm Emanuel hate the average American SO MUCH that they’ll literally contract our own militarily ships out to foreigners in order to avoid providing American skilled labor with adequate pay. There is no “labor shortage” with American shipyards, there is an unwillingness to pay wages that would attract the average American to consider that line of work stable and profitable enough to do. Also, again, this is the beginning of a massive slippery slope, this already being bad enough. I cannot fathom what other things the ruling elite would consider exporting rather than simply paying the people they hate to do the job.
>>58337802You are a fucking idiot. An absolute moron. A buffoon. Never make another post so fucking stupid on this website, or any website, ever again.
>>58339795You're retarded if you don't think the US hasn't been trying to build up their domestic capacity. That was OBVIOUSLY the first thing they tried doing, and they've spent YEARS with little success.Hell, AUKUS specifically feeds several billion DIRECTLY to domestic sub-manufacturing capacity.
>>58339837Hey nigger. I live next to the biggest domestic shipyards into the United States. They have done fuck all, nothing. No meaningful recruiting drives, no attractive bonuses, no old shipyards being refurbished and made available. I can literally show you pictures of shipyard space here that is abandoned and decrepit because no company will reopen the yard, even though theirs apparently an acute shortage of dock space. I’ve already had one foreigner ITT tell me I didn’t know who Rahm Emanuel was, so let’s hear some other luminary knowledge bestowed on us by our enlightened ally’s. This is all a charade to justify exporting shipbuilding overseas and to avoid paying Americans adequately.
>>58339892>my tiny slice of local life is indicative of the system as a whole and no i don't need to actually prove it, my own anecdotal evidence is all I need to prove my bat-shit retarded conspiracy theory.okay
>>58339921Explain to me, without saying it’s too expensive, why the United States is struggling to maintain its domestic shipyards? Also, explain to me how further undercutting the existing US capabilities wouldn’t just make this problem even worse? This is basic economics man, it’s not a conspiracy theory.
>>58339949Because it's more to do with scheduling and the time it takes to move ships across the pacific back to the US.Even IF you expanded US domestic capacity, you'd STILL probably want the ability to service ships in the pacific (Japan/SK/Phillipines) over trucking all the way back to Hawaii or the west coast.
>>58334845Is this a big deal? I thought they were doing something similar in Rota, Spain through Navantia.https://www.navaltoday.com/2021/01/26/navantia-wins-us-navy-maintenance-contract-in-rota/
>>58339892>to avoid paying Americans adequately.Well, America has run out of white blue-collar workers, so obviously they need to look elsewhere for quality.
>>58340004Okay since you are arguing in good faith I will not be an asshole. A few things, the time in transit compared to the total time of any serious overhaul is absolutely negligible. We already do perform basic repair work in Japan, I have personally seen this being done, many of our ships are literally sitting in Japanese ports with specific sections of the port being owned or contracted out to the US. Every interaction with Japanese port workers and their security has been professional and efficient. I think doing basic repair works over there is a good idea, when it’s done where the ships are docked and the US literally owns the port/base per treaty. What I do not agree with is undercutting American shipbuilding by using Japanese commercial shipyards to perform major overhauls of US warships, which is what Rahmy boy is suggesting. During WW2, major overhauls were performed in the US, while stopgap repairs and minor actions were done overseas (typically by US personnel but we don’t have the luxury of having a 6 million man military right now). Even during a time of crisis, we still brought ships back to the US for repairs. The travel time is not the big factor here, and there’s a reason it’s considered a negligible design factor to make US capital shops small enough to fit into major international canals anymore. You can simply sail around and the time you lost doing so is NBD.
>>58340081Yes, but both Japan and SK already operate Aegis DDGs based HEAVILY on the US Burke DDGs. The primary workhorse for the USN in the pacific is also DDGs (and SSNs). So having local bases in the pacific that can do not JUST regular maintenance, but longer overhauls and upgrades, would be a big boon for the USN.Further this is ALL being done to keep american shipyards available for new construction, new destroyers, new frigates, new subs. Who cares if we're sending some of those longer upgrade/refit jobs overseas?
>>58340057This is both not true and irrelevant because if you paid workers adequately, there would be motivation to perform good work and maintain your job, assuming the shipyard upholds standards. The workers don’t need to be white, they just need to be American and well motivated/managed.
>>58340107I care because for every refit/rehaul you send to a foreign shipyard, you are both depriving your own shipyards the ability to justify expanding their own facilities and you are by default throwing that money at developing someone else’s domestic shipbuilding capability. We do actually compete with Japan when it comes to shipbuilding contracts, even though they’re a great ally and all. I personally believe AUKUS subs should have been produced by the Japanese, since they had the dock space and were offering a solid design(I would have simply requested a nuclear sub be designed at the outset but for whatever reason the bogans were absolutely terrified of nuclear powered ships)
>>58340030This is a lot more than simply performing maintenance work at US naval bases, so yes. We have similar setups with many different nations that host US ships, the Spanish thing isn’t unusual and makes sense.
>>58340173>depriving your own shipyards the ability to justify expanding their own facilities and you are by default throwing that money at developing someone else’s domestic shipbuilding capabilityThat's not really the case though, we're racing to expand submarine capacity and we have a backlog of submarine maintenance, and since all of our subs are nuclear, we (for proliferation reasons and security concerns) only allow those ships to get worked on in the US.I'd MUCH rather the US farm out maintenance/refit/upgrades of DDGs and auxiliary ships to asia and leave the US shipyards for SSNs/SSBNs/CVNs AND new construction of capital ships.I guess MAYBE in perfect world we could do both, but if we have to pick one, I'm perfectly happy with the option they seem to be going for.
>>58337629That's not shipyard labor. The surviving US shipyards are 100% cushy jobs since all their contracts are cost plus DOD contracts. You have to know the right people just to get a shipyard job. I know people who work for HI that make >100k per year welding. It's more than oil rig workers with a lot more amenities.
>>58340173>I personally believe AUKUS subs should have been produced by the JapaneseJust the thought of JAUKUS is tantalising. Imagine watching Japan justify nuclear powered subs as defensive capabilities, god what a world that would be
>>58336986The wage increases aren't even the worst part. That would be the complex and asinine work rules that make *everything* more expensive and time-consuming. That's the real labor-killer: union rules.
>>58337775Socialism has always been a movement of the upper classes under the guise of a movement for the lower classes. It's extremely paternalistic while pretending to be egalitarian.
>>58334870What idea? What's so ""jewry"" and ""subsersive"" about getting US ships fixed?Why don't you just fuck off back to /pol/?
>>58340193>I'd MUCH rather the US farm out maintenance/refit/upgrades of DDGs and auxiliary ships to asia and leave the US shipyards for SSNs/SSBNs/CVNs AND new construction of capital ships.Japan could probably produce Burkes for the US if the US really felt they needed more destroyers in the region.Both of the Japanese Maya-class DDGs were built in around 18 months, even if the US were only building a new DDG there every 2-3 years it would still alleviate some strain on the US shipyards.And the Maya-class isn't all that dissimilar from a Flight II burke.
>overhauling your ships in SingaporeWHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG??
>>58340383Wow it's almost like the POINT is to put pressure on china
>>58340392Why don't we just cut out the middle man and directly use Chinese shipyards? I'm sure they're very secure!
>>58340404Because getting your decades old destroyers maintained near your biggest military peer isnt the same as handing them the blueprints, even assuming they'd need/want them.It's not like we are giving them the source code to Aegis or letting them take apart SM-3 IIA.
>>58340426>just give a relatively CCP-friendly nation with lax security free access to crawl all over your sensitive naval equipmentThere's no way any honest poster can be this retarded. You have to just shill the party line no matter how dumb it is.
>>58340455Lmao yea we're just gonna park the DDG in the lot and give them the keys and come back 6 months later when she's fixed.Fuck off retard.
>>58340455>lax security>SingaporeThe same Singapore that will arrest you for littering.
>>58340469>>58340500That's bullshit. Doing overhauls in Singapore is one step away from directly using Chinese shipyards. There's no way you can enforce tight enough security in that hostile of an environment. Best case scenario they only steal sensitive technologies, but more likely is that they fucking sabotage everything.
>>58339795Look at this retarded wall of text. All that effort put into typing up your post is completely wasted by the fact the reason for the US considering this has nothing to do with the quality of domestic shipyards, but rather the time and money wasted for transit to go from SEA to the US for repair/refit.
>>58339417Yeah, the Yokosuka SRF has long been handling repair and maintenance of carriers, which is the only facility outside the US iirc. They do that in a dry dock in which the third hull of Yamato class BB (IJN Shinano) was built.
The absolute state of this country in 2023 where an army of government shills will call you unpatriotic for pointing out that the comped executive branch is actively trying to sabotage the US.
>>58340595The fact you think it's an "army of government shills" instead of just normal anon's that think you're a moron is hilarious.Your enemy is both stronger than anything you've ever faced, while simultaneously so stupid and incapable that you've managed to discover their dastardly plot.If you're not diagnosed schizo... Well you could probably give it a go.
>>58340619For me, it's the spacing.
>>58340595>executive branch is actively trying to sabotage the US.The navy has been tinkering with this during the last admin.
>>58340629Even worse, I live within 45 minutes of the NSA, CIA, and Pentagon.
>>58340638Just like draining the SPR, right?
>>58340649I'm sure you do, Pvt. LaQuiesha.
>>58340638You don’t understand anon, it was based and good then, now it’s self sabotage though. Smh my head you’re clearly a government shill protecting our senile, dastardly pretender president >t. a totally objective and not at all heavily biased American
>>58340638stop pointing out things tranny
It's not a democracy anymore if the government tries to control the public discourse to save face. That's why everything is breaking right now, and (You) are to blame.
>>58334845This is a good step if only because it gives forward-deployed ships greater access to proximate support facilities. For anybody who knows anything about the operational tempo of the US Navy, the benefit is obvious. Regardless, US yards need to be recapitalized.>>58340505You remain as deluded as you do in every other thread.
>>58340699>It's not a democracy anymore if the government tries to control the public discourse to save faceWhat an outright retarded statement to makeI bet you thought that was profound or some shit didn’t you faggot?
>>58340719I barely come here anymore after it was taken over by obvious government shills. Of course, you meant for that to happen, so good work.
>>58340731>omg ur so dumb!!Hit a little too close to home there, didn't it? Whatever, have fun destroying America so you can rule over the ashes.
>>58340740You're right, the best way to save America AND the white race is to abandon Ukraine, side with Russia, and start bombing gonna.
>>58337782Oh god here he goes
>>58340754Nobody even mentioned Ukraine until you did. I hope they pull through, but shills are evil and have no place in a free society.
>>58340081>During WW2, major overhauls were performed in the USWere there even full port facilities available overseas that had the capabilities to service us ships?
>>58340740Name one point in American history where the government didn’t try to control the narrative to save face retard>have fun destroying America I’ve been hearing about the destruction of America and how it’s imminent since the day I was born, it hasn’t happened yet and won’t happen soon
>>58340789The fact that this is even up for discussion leads me to believe that you're not even American, or at least you haven't been here for very long. Go back to whatever socialist shithole you came from.
>>58340329The US needs more hulls period. The navy spending close to three decades shitting itself has forced surface units to higher and higher operational tempos. It’s what generates all the rusty ship pictures thirdies love to post.
>>58340804>you think I’m an idiot? Well in that case you’re a turdie Faggot logic
>>58340836>more faggot NAFOspeakGo back. America is great because it filters auth-left faggots like you.
>>58335708Impressive. With this most recent achievement, fate has, in a single stroke, marked the decline of the west and spelled a new era of wondrous prosperity and peaceful global dominance for the Chinese dragon, which promises to firmly stand in sharp contrast to the historically bloody ascent of western powers and the cruel subjugation it brought to the humbler nations of the world. The blessings of Chinese>nuclear fusion imitation sun>plasma stealth technology>undetectable hypersonic combat vehicles>gaseous rubidium technology >quantum direct-current electricity>neutrino submarine detectors>hypersaturised turnpin computing>polygonical airfighters>rehubridating fields>refined pneumaticism >gamma titanium mono crystal turbines>mono-edge wertens>quantum aircraft carriers>double-pointed Heinmann engines>unmanned autonomous A.I. tanks>self-building submersible mines>protocratistic neural administration>hypervelocity air brolisters>tetrahedronical gas grenades>near-space ballistic air-to-air missiles>neuvon construction facilities>super light tanks>+2km range airburst rifles>quantum enhanced railguns>neurolaser satellite imaging >5G Remote Surgery>enhanced cobcrete>concretium superstructures>vao tree botanies>inverse particle accelerators >magnetized plasma cannons>trilithium retrigration reactors>vurticity ejectors>plasticized heat-seeking pyroammunition>quantum retrograde griminite airships>hyperquantum closed ports>hypersonic supersonic super cavitation torpedo missiles>skeletonized sixth generation fighters>quantum superalloy drones>high altitude combat balloons>chip based missile gyroscopes>Nineteen Seventies jet engineswill be the instruments with which China affirms its noble stewardship of 21st century world politics and offers the non-western world a different option; an humanist alternative to the depredations of Western leadership and the opportunity for a more equitable and dignified multilateralism.
>>58340595How does any of this “sabotage” the US?
>>58340526This isn’t true.
>>58340882>fucks up the Afghanistan withdrawal>fucks up relations with allies>fucks up the SPR>fucks up enlistment by politicizing it>fucks up economic readiness>fucks up weapon stockpilesShall I continue?
>>58340930What does any of that have to do with this thread, regarding the servicing of USN ships in Japanese ports?
>>58340781Yes. We utilized facilities in Australia and other allied ports. Again this was in an era of wartime necessity, but having the domestic facilities was absolutely vital.This board has slid so far away from logic that it’s sad, I don’t mean your post specifically, but just an entire thread of people actively arguing against domestic US shipyard capabilities.
>>58340970The next item in that list is going to be>gives China full access to the USN at Singaporean shipyards
>>58334868>submarine chasers and missile boats that don't have the range to even get past Taiwan from Quanzhouseriously, how do you build 100'+ warships that somehow have less range than a coast guard patrol boat?
>>58340972>actively arguing against domestic US shipyard capabilities.That's not what's happening though, if the domestic shipyards are unable to keep up with USN needs, since we have offered the money and they're STILL far behind what we want, then the USN is smart to look elsewhere, especially Japan and south Korea, or in AUKUS case, Australia. Do you think AUKUS is bad for the US since we'll have a non-us shipyard in the pacific that can do SSN maintainance?
>>58340972Nobody is arguing against them, we are just pro adjusting to the realities of their labor situation and pro prioritizing them for new hulls
>>58340972That's why the shills are so dangerous. Their only mission is to save face for the government, even when it's making absolutely retarded decisions.
>>58341059>>58341069>ahhhh no there’s a labor shortage >let’s continue to pay apprentices 15 dollars an hour Huh I wonder why there’s a labor shortage, I wonder what could be done to mitigate that problem.
>>58341522Do you expect me to argue against higher wages anon?
>>58341059>>58341069Look at this doublespeak by the way. >we aren’t against domestic industry >it’s just a reality that we aren’t willing to pay workers enough to do any of this domestically It is also a FACT that offloading this onto foreign clients decreases the incentive for domestic companies to even attempt to compete.
>>58341582> it’s just a reality that we aren’t willing to pay workers enough to do any of this domesticallyI’m for paying them more, never said I wasn’t, but that’s not something I have any say overI will point out though that just offering higher wages may not solve the labor issue in shipbuilding
>>58341568I don’t even understand what you’re arguing then, importing foreign workers is what companies typically do to get around this. You can’t do that with domestic shipyards though, because the employees must have at least a Secret clearance and many of them require TS. The only other solutions are to either pay your domestic workers more to attract more qualified workers, or to completely forgo domestic shipyards because offloading the maintenance to overseas will continue to drive up domestic prices and lower domestic incentives to expand their yards. This is basic economic fact. Protectionism in the manufacturing industry is essential for security and domestic wellbeing whether you like it or not.
>>58340455>Already posts soijacks Pathetic
>>58341609I'm am all for writing a blank check to expand domestic ship building if they can ACTUALLY deliver on their promises and not just milk the contracts and never expand.
lmao @ the parasite in this thread shilling for the ship building industry which has absolutely fleeced the American people for like the past 40 yearsi have to assume his whole family currently benefits from the shit show that are U.S. shipyards and sees anything that could remotely improve readiness as a threat
>>58341609I was pointing out we weren’t arguing against domestic shipbuilding, and having a plan to deal with reality is better than just stomping our feet and saying things need to change
>>58341638They could actually do this if the administration was serious about holding shipyards accountable. Whoever the Pres is could unilaterally instruct to SecNav to simply get it done no questions asked, and fire him if he wasn’t seeing progress fast enough. The fact this isn’t happening is a result of lack of oversight, in my opinion intentionally; to avoid having to pay domestic workers. Before someone troons at me, I’m not specifically calling out the current admin, this has been a problem for a long time now. Perhaps getting serious about maintaining our navy is critically important. Shit we need to be expanding the navy if anything, not mothballing ships that could be refurbished and repaired.
>>58341657He's probably a contrarian in all honesty
>>58341657Ironic to be shilling for OUTSOURCING US INDUSTRY while calling the guy saying that’s an awful idea the parasite.
>>58341680your ilk had FORTY FUCKING YEARS (40) after the Cold War to sort your shit out. i unironically hope the tiny industrious japs expose you for being the leeches you are
>>58341663Exactly no part of that plan should include considering outsourcing even one drydocks worth of space to a foreign country. Those shipyards will be there during a wartime emergency, we need to be building and maintaining more domestic shipyards now that we 100% know will be available regardless of international politics or military situations.
>>58341694I have absolutely no financial or personal stake in this. This is common sense, if the shipyards are “abusing” corrupt Navy officials that’s also a problem that must be addressed.
The most hilarious thing about this is, if they knew anything about who Rahm Emanuel is, what he’s done in the past, and what his family has done, they’d know that in no way is he advocating for this in good faith, nor is he a source of good ideas.
>>58341671Because oversight means big government and getting in the way of profits, so MIC lobbyists would never allow it.
>>58341698If it’s not getting done efficiently in the US it should be outsourced you absolute fuckin nonce, the US shipbuilding industry can’t handle the load that’s on it so we need to alleviate that load with the help of allied shipyards.
>outsource your defense industry to chinese allies (singapore) or else you're anti-american
>>58342218Singapore was mentioned more as dangling fruit in front of them to have them play nice. We aren't likely to ACTUALLY give them any contracts, at least not for the next decade.Japan is basically 100% going to happen, SK probably will too. Singapore and the Philippines were only mentioned so they know what they can look forward to if they play nice for the next decade and prove they can be trusted (at least with some limited stuff)and I can pretty much guarantee Singapore and Phillippines would get contracts for repair/refit of auxiliary ships, NOT DDGs and other combatants which would go to SK/Japan.
>>58342262>all that mental gymnastics that I didn't readNo, you're an idiot, and yourself plus anyone else who thought up this asinine scheme needs to be removed from power before you can do any more damage.
>>58342218Not at all what's happening, low-info faggot
>>58342328That's exactly what's happening.
>>58342307>I can't refute so instead i'll pretend I didn't read itlollmao even
>>58342340SIOP is spending ~25 billion on US Shipyards over the next 15 years. Upgrades, expansions, new facilities etc. It's the biggest investement in US naval shipyards in over a century. Until that work is finished there is a capability gap, farming out work to Asians will close the gap until they are finished with US shipyards.
>>58342354>lol>lmao evenOh look, the standard plebbit response. Color me shocked>>58342368Which is why we're giving china-lite access to sensitive USN equipment. Got it.
>>58342409>Which is why we're giving china-lite access to sensitive USN equipment. Got it.Not happening.
>>58342409>Which is why we're giving china-lite access to sensitive USN equipment. Got it.Who?You realize the ONLY thing they've actually confirmed is doing this in Japan...right?That MIGHT expand to other nations on a case-by-case basis. And will likely start with auxiliary ships, we're not going to hand over destroyers anytime soon to anyone but Japan.
>>58342418And to be honest, the Japs are probably disgusted by US destroyers
>>58342418He’s too fuckin retarded to understand what’s actually going on, there’s just no helping him anon
>>58342418Did you forgot about a little thing called PEARL HARBOR?
>>58342415>>58342418>>58342425>>58342438Giving access to insecure Filipino shipyards is bad enough, but Singapore?? I know you're paid to do this, but even you should know that's a terrible idea.
>>58342444We already let our CVNs and DDGs get work done in japan, this is just expanding the scope slightly.Japan is unironically our 2nd closest ally next to the UK, and you could argue in some ways they're a better ally since they know they're subservient to the US whereas the UK always likes to keep up appearances that they're on equal footing with the US (lol).
>>58342445Oh no! The Chinese will learn about how the USN clears rust and replaces propellors! We are surely doomed.
>>58342445Which isn't happening, READ you dumb faggot it's not that hard.> The U.S. Navy is studying the use of Japan's private shipyards to maintain, repair and overhaul its warships in a bid to reduce servicing backlogs back home -- an idea that could expand to South Korea, Singapore and the Philippines.key words of note> an idea that could expandIE, this isn't something that is confirmed to be happening, or even that it will ever happen.
>>58342455That's what makes the UK the most based. They are fully independent and yet they are always by our side when it's time to do hoodrat shit.
>>58342445Jesus dude, the only confirmed nation getting this deal is Japan, you need to understand shit before you open your faggy mouth about it
>>58342463This isn't even about protecting state secrets anymore. With that level of physical access to USN vessels, we're talking about straight up sabotage.>>58342466>>58342480You're backpedalling.
>>58342495>You're backpedallingFrom fucking what? You’re the one screeching about Singapore, I’m just pointing out the only country confirmed to be getting this deal is Japan
>>58342495>You're backpedalling.wut?You're the one who is forcing the idea of working with other nations even though everyone actually involved has said it's only confirmed with Japan.If you're going to insist still that it's 100% confirmed and the US is doomed I'm going to assume you're just some sort of /pol/ tard faggot.
>>58342495>This isn't even about protecting state secrets anymore. With that level of physical access to USN vessels, we're talking about straight up sabotageSabotage of the rust control? The horror.
>>58342514>>58342515You spent the entire thread whining about how we *NEED* to outsource our shipyards to foreign nations at any cost, and now you're all about muh small pilot program. You shills have no shame. Fuck you.
>>58342537That's not what he argued and why outsourcing is happening has been explained to you. You have no argument, only obstinacy.
>>58339795>MUH JERBSthe post
>>58342526>*slips a transmitter onto the hull*heh, whoops!
>>58342537Show me where I said Singapore should be one of the nations faggot
>>58342550Yes. I'm sure there will be no security protocols at all. The nips will definitely get us this time.
>>58339795They're doing this so we have the equivalent of us bases in Japan anon, so fleets don't have to sail back to fucking CA to repair.
If it wasn't for the nips be so good at building ships The yards would still be open on the ClydeAnd that can't be much fun for themBeneath the rising sunWith all their kids committing suicide
Also, none of this discussion so far mentions that it would be moving US shipyards into missile range from mainland china.>>58342561Right here, faggot:>>58340392>>58340500>>58340469>inb4 that wasn't menot my problem>>58342565Now do SG and PH.
>>58342647Anon >>58342368 it's a temporary measure.
>>58339795Ahhh, no, you're thinking too hard about it. It's far more pragmatic to source locally and this isn't your cell service contracting out Indians to handle customer service via telework. Would you rather sail across the Pacific in order to undergo repairs to your navy or do it right where you already have the manpower and labor. It makes perfect sense.Besides, the Japanese do not count as unskilled labor: they take pride in their work no matter what it is.
>>58342647None of those are me faggot, and none of those are saying it SHOULD be one of themAs far as your, totally legit of course and definitely not trolling, concerns about missile ranges: why would A) the nips leave their yards undefended B) we leave our ships undefended
>>58334845>U.S. Ambassador to Japan Rahm EmanuelHoly shit, he has a job?
>>58342676You listed a bunch of other insecure countries before backpedalling, faggot.>>58342657>they're only going to temporarily sabotage your navyGee, thanks!
>>58342704I’ve pointed to SK, Japan, and Australia as my picks for it retard None of my picks are ‘insecure’, hell I bet SK and Japan are more secure than Cali
>>58342647>>>58340392 (You)>>>58340469 (You)>>inb4 that wasn't meThis was me, and i was making fun of you by saying that sarcastically. There isn't a snowball's chance in hell they'd give Singapore a DDG. That doesn't mean they can't alleviate shipyard capacity by the shipyards that WILL work on DDGs by taking care of replenishment oilers or vehicle transport ships that aren't secret or sensitive particularly since they're non-combatants.I was saying giving some of the contracts to Singapore gives them money and incentive to stay aligned with the US, it also gives the US/Japan more capacity to focus on their combatants. Which in turn, puts more pressure on china allowing the US to run their DDGs at a slower tempo so they're not getting run around 24/7/365 like they are lately.
>>58342733More backpedalling. I hate shills so much it's unreal.
>>58342755Who told you to have this view point?It seems so artificial, like what the fuck is your angle here?
>>58342755>let me put words in your mouth or you’re backpedaling There are Chinese shills, actual fuckin shills, on this board with more brainpower than you
>>58334898>there's a real possibility some japanese kid is going to do maintenance on a warship his great grandfather kamakazied
I just wanted to say I turned down a career as a tradesman (welder) in Newport News to go college, because the starting wages were crap.
>>58342772I don’t think any ships from the ‘40s are still in service anon, at least not in the US
>>58342744>giving some of the contracts to Singapore gives them money and incentive to stay aligned with the USThis is more retarded late roman empire type shit where they were trying to pay off the barbarians with gold. You got in this mess in the first place by outsourcing chip production right next to china, and now your solution is to ALSO outsource the shipyards right next to china to defend the outsourced chip fabs. What a fucking joke.
>>58342764>>58342770Why would any sane person argue to outsource our nation's ability to defend itself to insecure foreign countries with questionable loyalty, while also arguing *against* a domestic defense indusrry? That's fucking retarded.
>>58342704So you would prefer no maintenance for the next 15 years?
>>58342827False choice, shill faggot.
>>58342822They are spending 25 billion on domestic shipyards. This has been explained to you.
>>58342796What's extra funny is the federal government is putting serious money and effort into onshoring semiconductor manufacturing and making US chip companies more competitiveLOL
>>58342822>Australians, Japs, and SKs have questionable loyalty Brain dead, and the outsourcing is due to the fact that the US industry can’t handle the load it’s under plus the distances involved.When the US industry can handle the workload I’ll argue for bringing it back
>>58342839>We don't have enough capacity >It will take 15 years and $25 billion to build capacity >We are building that capacity with that money >In the meantime we will use allies to full the gap This has been explained to you.
This thread is fucking insane watching the federal government argue for its own suicide, all to avoid a little public embarrassment over bad policies. We're FUCKED because of you.
>>58342889>Money is being spent to fix the problem >In the meantime, allied Shipyards will be used This has been explained to you.
>>58342889You're so convinced in your viewpoint that you HONESTLY can't even see how retarded you look.It's kinda funny.
>>58342889Actual schizo take.
>>58335059Toyotas are full of electronic bullshit like every other car. But their engines are still more mechanically reliable than everybody else's except maybe Honda.
>>58334870Having ships repaired in the ports of one of our major allies is... LE JEWISH!
>>58334845It has to because US shipbuilding is fucking dead. We produced 0.1% of all ships in 2021, fucking 10. China produces 40% of global shipping and a good deal of the rest are right in their neighborhood. In a major war, lack of shipping could fuck the US out the gate, not to mention that huge repair times would be catastrophic in a naval conflict. IDK how it was allowed to get this bad.
>>58342673The skills for ship repair are the same as ship building and US commercial shipping going virtually extinct while money has been drained out of the Navy due to the GWOT is a huge issue, especially since Taiwan is way out of combat range of the F-22 and F-15 and carrier production of the F-35 has been slow. A conflict with China would be with the F-18 for the most part, on carriers that can't be repaired quickly.It is a huge strategic problem that the Pivot to Asia got fucked out of existence by sequestration. America has a huge naval advantage but it is being pissed away, which encourages, not discourages the possibility of war with China.Given what is happening to Russia right now, as soon as it is defeated (which should be made quicker by giving more advanced systems) the US should throw its primary investment into the Navy. Any war with China is likely to be like the war with Japan, primarily a naval war.
>>58342183>nonce You are not American, stop saying “we”
>>58342549South Park defines this posters worldview. >>58342582?????? There are existing repair facilities in US naval bases in Japan. Again, you are a fucking retard and can’t read between the lines here, also travel time is negligible when repairs take months or years.
>>58343180>Taiwan is way out of combat range of the F-22 and F-15Okinawa is only ~450 miles.F-22 might be close, but F-15 should have no problems.
>>58342673The same faggot who will make fun of a “dumb American” for asking how it makes sense to ship peaches from Argentina to Vietnam to package then back to Argentina to sell domestically will tell you that naval transit times are the determining factor in where major overhauls are completed.
>>58343206Am, have been, always will be
>>58343227>also travel time is negligible when repairs take months or yearsAdding potentially weeks of travel time is not "negligible" especially when spread out over the entire fleet.
>95% of global shipbuilding capability is in China, Japan and Korea>95% of global shipbuilding capability is either Chinese or withing range of Chinese TBMs, GLCM/ALCM and drone bombers.This has pretty serious implications for any kind of strategic confrontation.It's highly likely that in any kind of long War between the US and China, China would aim to cut off the extremely import dependent Korea and Japan, who are vital allies in any strategic confrontation.You would end up with something like the battle of the Atlantic, with a convoy war in the west Pacific.this would be problematic though because Japan and Korea are themselves the Shipyards of the 'west', it wouldn't be like WW2 where the US could prevent any British attritional death spiral with their enormous production.If the convoys start to lose the battle then you end up with the death spiral situation of: fewer merchant ships -> reduced merchant ship production.
>>58342775>Newport NewsAbout 25% white, 40%+ black...And people wonder why ship building is shit, maybe if major cities weren't ghettos things would be different...
>>58342894>Money fixes a problem of demographics and no young people going into specific skilled trades
>>58343250I do not know a single person in my entire life that was American and uses the word nonce, not a single one. That’s a cute picture though. >>58343256Yes it is
>>58336464you were in diapers when Obama was elected, weren't you?
>>58343280The shipyard makes it a dump. If you spent an any appreciable amount of ti.e downtown, you'd understand why
>>58343060>undercutting an already struggling critical US industry is… le subversive
>>58343287It’s a fun word, I enjoy it therefore I use itRetard gets old after a bit yanno
>>58343312You are a terminally online freak using language that isn’t used in the country you live in, arguing that undercutting domestic industry is a great idea. Yup sounds about nu/k/
>>58339795Anon, you missed this part:>>58334868>The U.S. is also interested in exploring industrial partnerships between Japanese and American shipyards to expand capacity in both countries for maintaining and manufacturing naval vessels, a U.S. official said.
>>58343331I’m American faggot, imma talk how I damn well please and you can continue to seethe about itAnd it’s not undercutting industry it’s picking up the slack our industry can’t handle until ship yards a done their improvements. I’d like the navy to be top notch, if that means the japs have to help us for a few years so be it. The fact that naval readiness isn’t a concern for you when our biggest rival claims the Pacific Ocean as there’s makes me question your nationality
>>58343366Fuckin typos bakaGo ahead and harp on them faggot, I know you’re going to
>>58343277This. US doesn't have a shipbuilding industry anymore. It hardly contributes to world tonnage. Creating the facilities to build ships will take years in event of a war.This is totally different from WWII. People think that because the US could switch on production so easily then it could do it again. But back then the US was already a massive producer of ships with tons of skilled labor.Boomers sold US safety and security for slightly lower prices lol.
>>58343374baka desu senpai
>>58340930A withdrawal that Trump had scheduled already.The relations that Trump fucked when he fucked over the Kurds...Economic readiness, how?Weapon stockpiles, how? We still have plenty of ammo, and we are encouraging more builders... even the Yuuros are not going to produce more ammo. Now fuck off, tard.
>>58343358That’s total bullshit and equates to “we are opening our domestic shipyards up to foreign competition at home too”There is 0 chance the Japanese would agree to any deal that undercut their own shipyards, this in absolutely no way benefits the United States. This is what happens with basically every trade deal that goes wrong, or outsourcing event. >noooo this is just temporary, see! You can’t even fill production>look how good and cheap they do it! >wow those shipyards sure can’t compete with the Japanese ones, we should just move all of our repair needs abroad because it’s so much cheaperFast forward a decade or two and you have no more domestic capacity to repair your own ships. This isn’t a fanfic, this has happened to dozens of critical industries. There are developed nations right now in this very position with their Navy’s as well. Again though, any dock space provided to a foreign company abroad is dock space that you will not invest in domestically. That’s a simple fact.
>>58343239Yeah, if you fly in a straight line directly into where enemy AA is looking for you with drop tanks making your radar signature larger.The F-15 might be somewhat usable for Taiwan, but only while using external tanks and with a much reduced mission time. The F-22 is straight up unusable. And unless you want to run an AA gauntlet using them is going to mean vulnerable aerial refueling operations that put a bottleneck on sorties.The NGAD can't come soon enough. The F-22 was designed for countering Soviet fighters from bases close to the USSR, it simply isn't a good air superiority fighter for US needs today, since it is useless for our biggest hot spot potential.
>>58343382I have no bone in that retarded fight you two are having about the bread and circus, but holy shit imagine valuing the Kurds as an important ally. There is 0 chance they’re ever getting their own State, possibly Iraqi Kurdistan but there was absolutely no way the US was going to allow a Kurdish state on the Syrian border with Turkey lmao
>>58343436Lmao nigga are you assuming China already OWNS taiwan?You're delusional if you think you can't be based in Okinawa and still provide combat potential over taiwan. Doubly so if Taiwan still has airbases for F-15s from Okinawa to land at so they aren't having to make the trip back to Okinawa on their initial fuel load. If that's the case even F-22s wouldn't be out of the picture.
>>58340930US ship building and naval readiness going down the shitter is 40 years in the making. The only one who really tried to cut against it was Obama strangely enough, and he didn't even follow through with it (although Congress helped fuck that up). Not that it was Obama's idea, but his staff was at least right on that one.We empowered China with trillions upon trillions of investment and tech transfers, let them into the WTO, helped them get to the point where they are the only other country building fifth gen aircraft and pumping out carriers while at the same time letting the ability to build up sea power totally shit the bed.
>>58343456>Just land your aircraft directly into the path of Chinese missile spam on bases that don't service any F-15s or F-22s and have no equipment for maintaining them and no staff who works on them.Let me guess, and as war breaks out we'll move US repair teams whole sale into Taiwan no problem? That's ridiculous. The US can't use bases for fighters that Taiwan doesn't use.Not to mention they don't have underground storage for most of their own birds, let alone a bunch of ours.That's pure fantasy. Taiwan could conceivably used as an airbase for a larger war against China involving more US allies, but it's useless if the entire Chinese military is focusing off the island and we're not escalating to general warfare, and even then it would require a massive suppression of Chinese air and missile resources on the coast first.
>>58340527Yoko SRF does not do major overhauls on CVNs or dry dock carriers. At least since the GW was forward deployed. SRF does assists in some minor repair work and preservation but the bulk of major maintenance actions is performed by Ships Force or PSNS. The Japs wouldn't even be able to carry out a major carrier overhaul like RCOH due to Japanese nuclear laws and NOFORN space restrictions which encompasses most of the areas we would focus on during a major overhaul such as ENG, RX, and CS.
just to piss off the retard ITT, i am personally writing to my Senator that we need to support this deal in order to compete with China in the Pacific.
>>58343305There are two problems confronting US shipyards;1. Their own lobbying retarding their production methods through lack of competition.2. Half of America wants to ban making anything.Neither of these problems (which are each individually fatal) are alleviated by banning allies from repairing US warships.
>>58344300Who wants to ban making anything? This is such a ridiculous claim that I can't even tell which party it is supposed to be about
>>58340771Are the shills in the room with you?
>>58342425>the Japs are probably disgusted by US destroyers>The JMSDF top-of-the-line DDGs are all based on the Arleigh-Burke classWash the shit off your brain.
>>58344210Good idea anonI’m going to write to mine and tell them that we should be using Chinese docks for the deal to promote cooperation and work towards deescalation
>>58337776It doesn't count for tonnage. In terms of military might, while the Chinese have more 'ships', they don't have more might. They label a ton of ships as part of their 'navy' that even a PT boat could reasonably fight.
>>58334845>Export all shipbuilding and repair to China and worse>Why can't we do these things in USA?Thanks Nixon amd almost every president after him.
>>58344693>implement the Jones Act >how could China do this to us
>>58344705Damn changs, always one step ahead of us
>>58343286Moving the goalposts now...also>muh demograficks!For your sake, get off /pol/
>>58344675You don't plan a long term naval strategy on the tonnages of today, you plan it around the tonnages 20 years from now, because that's how long it takes to build up yard capacity, to develop a new class of ships from blueprint blue to blue water.So where will the PLAN be in 20 years? and what will the strategic outlook be then?, These are the real questions naval architects should be thinking about, not the present day bulk of corvettes, Kilos and missile boats.The Chinese navy is not likely to grow exponentially, the cost of maintaining a rapidly growing navy grows even faster.However they will certainly grow at a faster pace than the USN and potentially their allies too.What is the US response to this? What is the strategy? Because right now it doesn't look good 20 years from now.
>US Navy plan to use Japan's shipyard as Drydock to repair USN ships so USN doesn't need to sail across the fucking pacific. Thus increase the combat readiness.>hurr durr muh job, muh jews, muh great replacement./pol/ and its consequences have been a disaster for the human races.
>>58334870the only based one on /k/. your posting with clown cult bots here
>>58344607Still can't take the hint, can't you?
>>58344860>the retard has returned to continue getting btfo’d Nice, I was worried you’d gone to bed or something faggotNow please, regale me with a tale of how yer jerb is being stolen
>>58344374Direction brain strikes again
>>58344886Pay attention, anon. The post I responded was our local contrarian's attempt at "sarcasm"
>>58345005Nigger I am the guy you fuckin responded toIt was a god damn joke holy fuckin Christ
>>58344705Jones Act was a good thing and CATO can suck a nut. It needs some rework as it's woefully out of date, but the idea behind it is sound. Concurrently with that, the current and future admins need to light a fucking fire under their Secretary of Transportation and DOTMARAD director, because these are the people actually responsible for managing and growing domestic shipyards. Fair competition doesn't exist on the global stage when your opponents in the market are dumping hundreds of millions to billions in subsidies to their shipbuilding sectors, and there's no way our shipyards our going to grow on their own when subsidized foreign shipyards do commercial contracts cheaper and better. Government orders are irregular enough that they can't be relied upon for reinvestment in the physical yards or the labor force.
>>58343516Kyiv and the AFU's airbases were also vulnerable to Russian airpower.Now the Puccia is in shambles and Kyiv is safe from anything except the few drones and missiles that eluded the SAM batteries.
>>58343305You think ukraine is undercutting American military by fighting the war against Russia?
>>58345237They took my job anon, please understand That was supposed to be me :’(
>>58345104>Jones Act was a good thingIts not, even you see its is out of date. The idea of the Jones act is protect domestic shipbuilding and keep it alive. That industry is alive the same way a zombie is alive.>fucking fire under their Secretary of Transportation and DOTMARAD director, Anon that's an empty platitude. Every president this century: Bush, Obama, Trump and Biden have all been presented with this same problem and none have even got the ball rolling, why? Because they can't. >Fair competition doesn't exist on the global stage when your opponents in the market are dumping hundreds of millions to billions in subsidies If any country can pour subsidies worth billions into its industry it's America. You do pour billions into your agricultural industry, automotive industry and just recently you passed billions in subsidies for "Chips". But I think the issue is more than subsidies. Would your shipbuilding industry embrace automation to make it more efficent if given the choice?Take South Korea even a decade ago they were embracing automation to maximise efficency it why Geoje Shipyard is so efficient same for the Dalian shipyard in zhangland
>>58343286So what you think the Federal Government should bring in Ship repair slave labor?How well did that work for the Nazis?Short of sticking a gun to people's heads there is no way the US can force someone to do something they don't want.Look at the billions the US spent trying to make people nurse for old people, and yet people realize they don't want a job watching old people piss themselves and die.
>>58343331What Domestic Industry, tell everyone in the thread how the US will be able to overnight rebuild all of it's domestic ship repair duties.I'll wait. And in the meantime how will the ships get repaired?
>>58335012I've just had a great idea - the crews on those ships, - they are an expensive legacy of cold war domestic nationalism as well. Replacing crew with contracted on Filipinos and Pakistanis would save a heap of money. Of course the officers would have to remain American, they are the ones in charge of weapons and orders and so on. But most of the tasks on a warship are just drudge work, requiring labor that could be flexibly sourced in our increasingly competitive international environment.
>>58336433They proved that shit out in the nineties bro
>>58345841This but unironcally
>>58344828It’s absolutely insane what happened to this board, people ITT playing the biggest game of mental gymnastics and making up any excuse they possibly can to justify moving away from even attempting to stimulate US shipbuilding. By the way, for all the foreign morons ITT, Rahm Emanuel is previously known for being the mayor of Chicago, the most successful, safe, and industrious city in the United States (and the least corrupt) he was an absolute visionary and all of his ideas proved to be prescient, which is why Chicago is ranked the best place to live in America now.
>>58345736The literally dozens of shipyards that produce and maintain the US navy, and have been in a modern sense since the 1910s. They need expansion and more qualified workers, you do this by advertising good paying jobs with good training programs to young people. Let’s take Norfolk shipyard for example, they offer a program where they pay people to become journeyman tradesmen in a variety of things. It only takes 16 weeks, but they only run the program once a year, and the program is almost never full. This is because, A. It isn’t advertised enough B. It doesn’t pay enough for people to justify leaving college to work in the shipyardC. It’s a rather limited program with low flexibility for different locations and only runs for a few months of the year. All of those things need to be rectified in order to boost the amount of new workers in the yards, and thus expand the yards. That’s just one example, but right now they are only paying people 17$ an hour for the first 6 months, which just doesn’t cut it for people giving up other opportunities.I’m sure there will be another redditor in here talking about the nazis using slave labor or some other ridiculous talking point.
>>58346479>17$ an hour for the first 6 monthsThis is the biggest reason trades are hurting. Why the fuck would you work that hard and risk your body for a McDonald's wage? Just wait tables and go to community college.
>>58344808Transit time is not a determining factor when considering major ship overhauls. It is preferential to perform these tasks well out of harms way, in domestic yards, where you have extremely tight security from both insider threads and external hardware threats like missiles. >>58344753I’m not that guy, but demographics in shipyard regions are certainly problematic if you’re not actively attempting to recruit from better educated areas. Newport News and Suffolk are shitholes, and a lot of the aforementioned programs are predicated on being in close proximity to these places before you even start working, that significantly lowers the quality of candidates. Once the people are in and making a decent wage, they can afford to live in nicer areas. I suspect other areas where there is a shipyard industry are in the same boat.
>>58346512To be completely fair, that first 6 months they’re literally just attending trade school. Once they start working they get paid more depending on what they chose to do. You can actually make good money after a year or two, but if you want more workers, that starting pay needs to be much more attractive. If you can actually fill training programs, you can be more selective about the quality of workers coming in and blah blah blah, you get it.
>>58346373>not attempting to stimulate >investing 25 billion into it isn’t attempting to stimulate it
>>58346479I'm surprised Biden hasnt jumped on this shit to upskill blacks.
>>58346576$17/hr is not getting you out of your parents' house or your own car that you need to get there
>>58346589What exactly did that 25 billion go towards, you’ve mentioned this number several times ITT, but the endemic problems with US shipyards still exist, namely labor shortages and low development of more dock space. Perhaps some of that money could go directly to offering more pay for entry level positions, thus growing the base of the industry, but I have no idea where that money is going because at best most of these companies are still only offering 5K sign on bonuses and the pay isn’t extraordinary. You can’t really build new dock space if you have no one to staff them. This circles back on why it’s such a bad idea to move repairs to foreign commercial shipyards, because by doing so you’re making it clear that it’s not a good investment to expand domestic yards because you’ll absolutely never be able to compete with Japanese yards, let alone other foreign nations.
>>58346635>17 plus union gibs plus a guaranteed job for life to just showup someplace for a couple of months >And then a proper wage
>>58346642Your asking what it fixes, specifically two problems that can be fixed purely with money?
>>58346642>This circles back on why it’s such a bad idea to move repairs to foreign commercial shipyards, because by doing so you’re making it clear that it’s not a good investment to expand domestic yards because you’ll absolutely never be able to compete with Japanese yards, let alone other foreign nations.>It's not a good investment>You've already made the investmentClinically retarded
>>58346436Yes, I'm sure english is too hard for your poo brain to handle.
>>58346648>And then a proper wagePay people over $21/hr starting, ie be competitive with fucking food service and landscaping, and they might care. The whole "maybe if I feel like it, you might get more in the future possibly maybe," doesn't cut it anymore
>>58346642If you think none of that money is going to go towards incentivizing the field to new workers I have several bridges to sell you from New York to crimea, plus a damn dam
>>58346609There are a few reasons for this, the largest being that almost all military contracting yards require the workers to possess a secret or TS clearance, and typically that filters out felons and druggies. You also need to pass drug tests on a regular basis. You also need to be marginally functional and pass whatever trade school you chose. It’s not really the perfect setup to provide jobs for shithole areas. >>58346635??? It absolutely can? It’s not ideal but that’s literally just what you’re paid while you’re going to classes for 16 weeks. The overtime pay once they actually start working is where the actual money is.
>>58346690>16 and hour to go to school Normally you pay to go to school, not get paid to be there. holy shit bro what's up with your brain
>>58346702>There are a few reasons for this, the largest being that almost all military contracting yards require the workers to possess a secret or TS clearance, and typically that filters out felons and druggies. You also need to pass drug tests on a regular basis. You also need to be marginally functional and pass whatever trade school you chose. It’s not really the perfect setup to provide jobs for shithole areasI see. Well, bring in the Mexicans.
>>58346702>>58346719Anon, I had some dogshit job doing tech support last year after I graduated and was looking for a job in my field. I made $20/hr working from home doing a job any dumbo who can use a computer can do. Look around on Indeed and you can find similar jobs. If you're an 18 year old fresh put of high school and do well in the interview, you can get such a job. If you take classes on the side, you can get IT certifications while you work and/or learn to code. This will qualify you for a career in IT and, more importantly, give you proven experience in the field. Following through on this will put you in a position to work a job with more prestige, better pay, and vastly, vastly better conditions. People die working in shipyard; they don't die from systems administration.
>>58346753Thanks for the blog post. 16 an hour to learn a skill is a great deal if you have nothing going on. The fact that it's just 16 weeks and your salary then improves is fantastic.
>>58346776You can learn SQL or python at home by yourself for free in like a week each. Waiting tables or answering phones will pay you more than the apprentice program will while you do that. Also, I looked it just now. Virginia community colleges only cost $154/credit hour. If you're willing to work hard, you can have much better career that won't kill you or slowly give you cancer by just going to school like a normal person instead.
>>58344808Each nog costs the federal government $9,000 each year they draw breath without even accounting for the cost of crime, policing, and state/city entitlements that they accrue. Spics cost $7,000. White women break even. White men each put in about $12,000 for each year averaged over their entire their life.Since whites are objectively superior and hold the most STEM degrees per capita and in total one would assume you'd like to court their favor. But the government does precisely the opposite, because it doesn't care that every shitskin imported is a net fiscal and social loss. They don't care that among all the demographics only conservative whites breed while even their darkie pets stop after a single generation. They hate and fear violent white men. And thus any military ambition is hobbled by the cost these scum inflict upon all of us. Without them we could afford to build a new aircraft carrier every year indefinitely, we'd have had a trillion dollar(2010 USD) surplus every year for the last 50 years. You want more cool weapons? You want to crush your rivals? Get rid of the darkies.
>>58345736If you count "industrial the same way that the US, Germany, or Japan does then the US has about twice as much industrial output as China. China counts everything that could create or repair a physicals product as industrial. Construction, repair, electricians, ect. Japan and Germany each produce roughly as much industrial output as China, using their own criteria applied to the China. American has plenty of industry, but I want more I want them all beggared and starved. I want actual Imperialism dammit.
>>58346834I have a JD. I'm fine. Merely pointing out that 16 and hour to go to school for 16 weeks so that you can then start a job paying away more is quite a good deal>Huntington Ingalls Averages $30 an hour per a quick Google search. >Hurr but I want to work in an officeThat fine. But we're not talking about you are we?
>>58347007which one of those fields is hurting for people?I know plenty of yardbirds who live with their parents well into their 20s because the shipyards(newport news, portsmouth, PNSY) do not pay them enough money to make it livable. Bath ironworks is probably the only one I've talked to people at where they made a comfortable amount of money. The USN will outsource to foreign countries and then cry a fucking ocean of tears when they realize those same shipyards are within hypersonic missile range.
>>58347007>Merely pointing out that 16 and hour to go to school for 16 weeks so that you can then start a job paying away more is quite a good dealI'm pointing out that 1. it's worse deal than you think. There's much less incentive to go through with it if you think you have other options. 2. every employer under the sun tries to sell entry level personnel the idea of growth later on within the company. Almost all of them are lying. In this day and age you'd have to be a complete sucker to take any employer at their word when they're trying to get you to apply. Most people aren't going to buy the idea of crappy pay now for a respectable wage in 6 months to 2 years, because they all say that and it's usually a lie.>$30 an hourWhich is comparable to entry level roles in tech>But we're not talking about you are we?Yeah, actually we are. Why would you make less money working harder and under worse conditions when better opportunities exist. >$30 an hourWhich is comparable to entry level roles in tech>But we're not talking about you are we?Yeah, actually we are. Why would you make less money working harder and under worse conditions when better opportunities exist.
>>58347082>He's suddenly an expert on shipbuilding and has conducted vast worker surveys >He's also back to pretending that tye Gov has not just written a $25 billion check to unfuck naval shipyards You're a fucking meme.
>>58347088>I, a tech worker, have different opportunities to a bluecollar guy Get a load of Sherlock Holmes over here.
>>58347114Why would you become a blue collar worker when you can learn tech skills quickly for free on your own with nothing but an internet connection and a command line prompt? You can even get at least semi-relevant experience doing tech support, also without leaving your house for as much or more money than the apprentice program. It's a crappier deal than you think.
>>58347096I'm not the guy you're originally replying to, I actually have worked for the shipyards before and it is a shitshow>every ship almost always comes out over-schedule and massively over-budget>lots of things not actually fixed that are neatly wrapped up in a stack of papers and buried in bureaucracy>ships basically spend the next two years after undocking doing corrective work that was canned in the yards>shipyard bills the fuck out of the navy for sending flyaway teams to fix problems they often caused or ignored >because of the low pay of the yardworkers, the average shipyard worker is a 18-28 year old who didn't want to go to college or enlist, and in general is retardedWhile I was doing my daily tours and ship checks, for three weeks I saw a painter hand-painting an entire 50ft long passageway with a small brush. He was painting lagging and cabling running through, which would've taken a deck SN about 30 minutes and achieved about the same result. Tossing money at the problem will not fix the intentional calculated mediocrity of the shipyards, their main purpose is to squeeze as much fucking money out of the navy for a completely substandard product and then suck themselves off over it. 90% of the guys working there do not make more than $35,000/yr, and the upper 10% are shop managers, ship superintendents, and nuclear level 1 certified welders/radcon office on nuclear warships.
>>58334845shipyards are probably the most unionized industry in the country, this is a one way ticket to getting voted out of congress for anyone putting their name on the bill
I just donated $200 to Trump because of the insane shilling in this thread, and I'm going to donate a lot more after he wins the primary. I suggest that everyone else who isn't a bot does the same. These fuckers are trying to do a controlled demo of the entire country.
>>58347420>I just donated $200 to TrumpNo refunds piggie!
>>58347420>Trump I’m the guy primarily arguing against the “shills” ITT and I can confidently tell you that you just threw away 200$. He did fuck all to help the country while he was in office, literally no difference between him and the Obama presidency. In some ways worse actually. His most effective border policy wasn’t even really a result of his campaign promises but a Covid restriction that was continued until now by Joe, as long as he possibly could. Trump did basically nothing to fix the shipyard issue as well. Just argue at local levels and completely tune out of any politics above the state level breh, nothing every really changes in a meaningful way. Also, where the fuck is my wall and why would you even consider voting for the man that failed to deliver his #1 campaign “promise”
>>58334845Good. Given the state of american shipbuilding they should take all the help they can. I wonder if Japanese yards would be willing to build ships too. It would be based to have Mitsubishi churning out some constellations
>>58347448You evil motherfuckers need to be permanently purged from ever holding positions of power again, and Trump is the only person up to the task. Thanks to you, I'm donating another few grand to his campaign after the primary, and I'm also going to volunteer. I've never done any of this before, but you've finally convinced me.>>58347493No you're not. Enjoy prison, glownigger.
>>58347420>>58347448what do you gain from this, is the ten cents a post really worth it? is it even 10 cents USD or 10 gookshit third world monopoly tokens
>>58347507This is good bait
>>58347519>>58347521Go cry about it. The harder you shill, the more I contribute.
>"people" on /k/ are MAD AS FUCK that some anon is advocating building up American shipyards never seen a thread so BLATANTLY filled with global glowniggers >Verification not required.
>bro we can totally fix the ship building industry just give us even more money it will totally work this time trust us
The US isn’t a blue collar industrial nation anymore. When half the public yards were shut down after the Cold War there wasn’t a halving of ships that needed maintenance, and the USN only lets the public yards touch their nukes. The private yards were finally brought into the picture to help but THEY’RE full with new orders. America no longer has the blue-collar, trade school educated clearance-capable workforce to just pop up new yards like it used to; all that industrial activity was exported to Asian peasant labor. The private industry could expand, but they’re not doing anything without guaranteed contracts, something which the US has been bad at giving with the 10+ year long drive to lower costs and limiting procurements.The USN is, in fact, doing something about it. They’re on this 10-15 year long upgrade program for the remaining public yards; increasing capacity, modernizing and optimizing the facilities. It’s predicted this will alleviate much of the current shortfalls once complete — but there’s still going to be shortfalls, so the US has to do something about it. Letting the Japanese handle conventional maintenance at least for this vessels transmitting the area on the regular (ie, 7th Fleet) makes sense. It’s probably expensive but these vessels need to stop being benched waiting for yard time. While we’re at it we should farm some work out to the European yards which are also struggling. The USN will NEVER let anyone else touch their nukes but even so, once the floodgate was opened on the private yards there’s no reason not to let allied nations’ yards in on it.
>>58342476Your dad you beat up "spinnin' on da ops" as niggers say, with you and the boys. KEK.
Yawn, nothing new. Midway had her last major reconstruction done in Japan, and NASSCO has subcontracted some of its USN repair work to yards in Tijuana at times.
The Jones act and its consequences have been a disaster for the US shipbuilding industry.It's such an admission of weakness that american shipyards are dogshit and can't actually build anything good.
Australia is actively trying to sabotage US naval shipbuilding for its own benefit. This thread is the kind of thing that could kill AUKUS: I'm reaching out to my senator. Good job shills lmao.
>>58339892Nice try. You spell like an ESL.