[a / b / c / d / e / f / g / gif / h / hr / k / m / o / p / r / s / t / u / v / vg / vm / vmg / vr / vrpg / vst / w / wg] [i / ic] [r9k / s4s / vip / qa] [cm / hm / lgbt / y] [3 / aco / adv / an / bant / biz / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / pw / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / vt / wsg / wsr / x / xs] [Settings] [Search] [Mobile] [Home]
Board
Settings Mobile Home
/k/ - Weapons


Thread archived.
You cannot reply anymore.


[Advertise on 4chan]


File: hqdefault.jpg (14 KB, 336x188)
14 KB
14 KB JPG
Is TIK right when he says that war games that have been used by militaries for about 2 centuries now are useless and being proficient in their theory and application does not grant you insight on how a battlefield could play out?
Do they really not help people judge the situation for historical forces in campaigns of the past or modern forces in campaigns of the future?
Why do militaries spend billions on them if they are a waste of time?
>>
>>58333684
Most wargames are fucking retarded bullshit (for example, the many fake countries the US have made up that invade the US), but ones that focus on specific tactical or strategic moves (for example, the Germans wargaming how long it would take to navigate the Ardennes for Sickle Stroke) are useful.

That said, kill all lolberts.
>>
>>58333684
TIK's takes are only right when they're on his correct observations that fascists are socialists
>>
>>58333802
>for example, the many fake countries the US have made up that invade the US
Trigonia will rise again.
>>58333871
TIK has no understanding of politics and economics abd still operates under the libertardian paradigm of
>if the state does anything it's socialism
He clearly wasn't bullied enough in school.
>>
>>58333903
>if the state does anything it's socialism
Correct.
>>
>>58333915
>you need socialism to avoid being conquered by Canada
Curious.
>>
>>58333684
no. that is clearly a retarded take. any group of people who want to be good at anything need practice.
>>
>>58333684
>retard here
I don't know shit about military wargaming , but do we even know how wargaming works in the military? Like they're very obviously not just running CMANO simulations are they? I know big exercises like Red Flag and shit they run scenarios IRL with modified shit like the opfor can "respawn" etc. For just computer simulations don't they have their own proprietary simulators that are likely significantly more accurate since they can plug if data they get from espionage or material exploitations. Shit that won't be in the public domain? Sure obviously he's correct that military theory and planning doesn't translate to an automatic win but surely there has to be some value to what they try to figure out to justify the price, and dude here isn't just dismissing it because what's available to civilians isn't super insanely accurate.
>>
>>58333684
>does not grant you insight on how a battlefield could play out
they never did. he's rather embarrassingly misunderstanding their purpose.
>>
>>58333978
/thread
>football practice doesn't reveal the opposing teams playbook so its a waste of time
>>
>>58333684
Wargames are very valuable if done correctly. The results of the constant wargames that the US military did showed results in the First Gulf war when they US lead Coalition went up against the Iraqi army which was trained to follow Soviet doctrine by the book, and because the US constantly did training vs OPFOR that followed soviet doctrine it was a one sided rofl stomp.

But in the end the wargames only matter if you can emulate what the enemy can do.

So for China and Russia doing Wargames where OPFOR is a Western state is dam near impossible as they cant even replicate what western militaries can do in terms of logistics or just military movement.
>>
>>58333684
>your wargame is "let's pretend to fight each other in the jungle or something like retards idk"
>your logistics structure learns what it takes to supply the units used in the wargame in a hostile environment, exposing possible weakpoints in logistics to be rectified
>your command structure learns how to effectively communicate orders to squads, where orders were confusing or weren't received, what communications infrastructure is vulnerable or needs to be improved
>squad leaders tasked to receive orders and execute plans, reading maps, organizing their squad, etc.
>dumb grunts get some exercise or something idk
the fucking wargame doesn't even matter. just getting people out in the field and moving around and setting stuff up and doing shit provides valuable experience to all of the important moving parts of an army so that there's less constant failure. there will always be constant failure, but the army that does less of it has a gigantic advantage
>>
TIK thinks private supply lines by companies are a good idea. end of the discussion.
>>
judo throw anarchists into a woodchipper
>>
>>58334094
>the wargames only matter if you can emulate what the enemy can do
not true. the point of wargames is to stress your own forces in various ways (depending on the rules) in order to reveal weaknesses that need to be addressed. command&control, logistics, coordination between branches, response time, etc. and it gets your guys invaluable practice in doing the sorts of things they will need to do in a real fight.
>>
File: LPD.png (294 KB, 1348x1243)
294 KB
294 KB PNG
>>58334255
>private supply lines
are you serious? lolbertarianism is a brain disease.
>>
>>58333802
>>58333903
>>58334262
>>58334310
Hitler lost.
>>
>>58334319
Socialist art-hoes always lose
>>
>>58334335
you said it, they want their communism they can keep it.
>>
>>58333978
Yeah well embarrassingly misunderstanding things is his whole deal
>>
>>58333973
Why wouldn't they put it in public domain?
>>
>>58333684
What's the difference between a war game with people and silly costumes and a war game with numbers and statistics?
Militaries use both and the name is used for both.
>>
File: WATU.jpg (45 KB, 868x455)
45 KB
45 KB JPG
"Wargame" covers everything from WATU (which may be a special case, its more operations research in a pre-computer age) to Kriegsspiel to what are really just mobilisation exercises to command level stuff that is basically D&D in camo.

It depends what you want to work on and how good it is at representing that. Presumably he has something specific in mind but I have no idea what it is.


>>58333973
You have this exactly backward. Wargames tend to be fairly simple, the intention is to generate behaviour and provoke decision making not to model outcomes especially (simulation is a different topic in this sense). Super insanely accurate is largely pointless. A six sided die and a table would be considered a dangerously high end tool in most of them ("this isn't a science project doc").

The most commonly encountered wargame is just a sandtable where you say what you'd do, people move stuff about and someone critiques what you said. Now if you add a ruler and some dice suddenly its Warhammer 40k but whats the point of that.

I'm not sure why you are worried about respawning incidentally. If you have hundreds of lads out for a three day thing and it ends on the second day of course you just find a way of carrying on.

Its all a lot more dull and boring than you might imagine, google "professional wargaming" and try to keep your eyes open long enough to read any of the results.
>>
>>58333802
>That said, kill all lolberts.
Where did that come from?
>>
>>58334530
NTA but TIK is a particularly embarrassing example of one.
>>
>>58334558
Oh, ok. What video is OP talking about? I couldn't find one by that channel that was obviously the one from OP.
>>
>>58333978
I'm not watching a youtube video but I assume he's confused wargaming with operational research (American: "operations research").
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operations_research

OR is never perfect and its imperfections grow relative to the level of uncertainty in the domain. So it has its limitations. On the other hand it built the modern world as we know it, so theres that.
>>
>>58334509
I think he was referring to the on paper/tabletop kind.
>>
>>58334580
>>58334558
I think I found it. I can't be fucked watchibng it, but based on the description I don't think he knows what wargaming is its intended purpose.
>>
>>58334580
I'm assuming the attempted response to Askey where the thumbnail us from since one of the points his fans love to bring up when somebody mentions TIK getting BTFO by Askey actually writing a short essay to make fun of him having no idea what he's talking about is
>he's just a wargamer!
But I haven't seen TIK's response so I can't say for sure.
>>
>>58333973
>Like they're very obviously not just running CMANO simulations are they
They are. Most simulations are much less advanced than even that. There are more advanced ones as well, but those aren't used for wargaming afaik, they're used for operations research.

Wargaming is primarily a training tool. It's also used as a tool for refining plans in which case the conditions for outcomes don't matter just exploring the likely rough effect of the outcomes on your plan, but that's about it.
>>
>>58333915
I don't even know where to start...
>>
>>58333684
Wargaming is part of course of action (COA) development and is usually done with a command staff at battalion level and up. Wargaming in terms of making up a fictional war and setting up different variables based on guesses to foresee "F U T U R E W A R" rarely ever pan out.
>>
>>58333684
>wargaming is pointless
>militaries should stop doing them
>what the future battlefield will look like shoild be pure untested guesswork, in absence of a real conflict
>there should be no way for militaries to work out what kind of capabilities they need for coming conflicts
>>
>>58333802
>the many fake countries the US
Atropia is a real country and we will have our independence.
>>
File: Atropia Flag US Army.jpg (1.97 MB, 3024x4032)
1.97 MB
1.97 MB JPG
>>58335170
Fuck Donoviafags
>>
>>58334734
There are a lot more options between those two, niggy.
>>
>>58335189
>Wargaming is part of course of action (COA) development and is usually done with a command staff at battalion level and up
That sums up all wargaming in an actual tactical, operational and strategic sense.
>Wargaming in terms of making up a fictional war and setting up different variables based on guesses to foresee "F U T U R E W A R" rarely ever pan out
And that sums up all wargaming that tries to predict wars and future dynamics of warfighting... What did I miss? HOI4?
>>
Wargaming looks so fun.
>>
>>58334310
He made a whole video about how the Wehrmacht would have had better logistics during Barbarossa if officers were all given a set amount of funds at the start and then had to bid on supplies of food, ammunition, oil etc. because the ones that truly needed it more would naturally outbid the others
It was just about the dumbest idea for a military strategy I've ever heard
>>
>>58335240
Wargaming done with past wwaes with historical research as a focus and all of the fucking around by the brass that is done mostly for fun or without a goal directly connected to their duties come to mind.
Also all of those texan boomers who can tell you the percentage chance of WWII tank x hitting target y and penetrating with a likelihood of Z from angle æ because they've been doing it on a tactical scale as a hobby for 40 years.
>>
>>58335308
Genocide all libertardians.
>>
File: naDB2Xh.gif (799 KB, 400x215)
799 KB
799 KB GIF
>>58333871
You know some people say the military is socialist. Think about it, you get affordable and subsidized housing and food, tuition assistance, and nearly free universal healthcare. All the hallmarks of a social welfare system.
>>
>>58335308
Lmao, how the fuck would they know when to hold back to prioritize pther sectors?
>>
>>58333684
>Is TIK right when he says that war games that have been used by militaries for about 2 centuries now are useless and being proficient in their theory and application does not grant you insight on how a battlefield could play out?
the game is only as accurate as the rules are, I really do not understand the complaint here
>>
>>58333684
Hello Nigel
>>
>>58333684
TIK is a retarded faggot and a literal shill, 100% black propaganda with some sprinkles of truth every now and then.
>>
>>58335354
toss libertardians into active volcanoes.. systematically, because they wouldn't be able to do shit lol
>>
>>58335454
a family is a communist commune if you think about it
>>
>>58337553
We've had 2 centuries and countless billions of dollars to refine them.
>>
>>58337660
Just leaving them around in a non-civilized place would be enough. They will be sperging about their freedom, doing nothing useful, and end up eating by bears.
>>
>>58337704
its not matter of time or money but simple accuracy and its never going to be accurate if the rules are created by someone unfamiliar with the subject, just like in video games
>>
>>58333684
>Why do militaries spend billions on them if they are a waste of time?
letting your officers get a taste of a highly contrived scenario maneuver is still better than them never having commanded troops in the field.
>>
>>58337712
They have the freedom to get mauled to death by bears. Can you say the same? Didn't think so, cope on that one.
>>
>>58334204
It's pointless to argue with armchair generals because they don't understand how much of warfare is simply about dealing with the mountains of fail involved in trying to coordinate thousands or millions of people for any task.
>>
>>58337730
>its not matter of time or money but simple accuracy and its never going to be accurate if the rules are created by someone unfamiliar with the subject, just like in video games
Those billions were largely spent by the military.
Name an organized group more familiar with the subject of war than all Western militaries combined.
Fucking midwit.
>>
>>58337520
They get less income in phase C
>>
>>58337756
they clearly have zero clues what they're doing, see millennium challenge 2002
>>
>>58337770
Desert Storm.
>>
>>58337768
Man I wish that game wouldn't require other people to be fun
>>
File: 1683548750858530.png (386 KB, 860x490)
386 KB
386 KB PNG
>>58333903
Based, the glory of the Circle Trigon Party shall never falter.
>>
>>58341189
Based helmets.



[Advertise on 4chan]

Delete Post: [File Only] Style:
[Disable Mobile View / Use Desktop Site]

[Enable Mobile View / Use Mobile Site]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.