Something simplified so they can handle it, and with a fuckton of air defense in keeping with Ukrainian doctrine. Their new Marine Corps can use it.
>>58333408>ukranian hornets fitted with LRASM
>>58333408Banned from the black seaMAYBE you could give them a Japanese "helicopter" destroyer that just happens to operate F-35Bs, but that'd probably be the most you could get away with.
>>58333408Now hold on a second there, you surely mean, "helicopter destroyer" right? Gotta make it through the Bosporus after all.
>>58333433Well we are making the Ukrainians into the Slavic parallel universe Americans. It seems fitting. We've given them our planes, our drones, our guns, our tanks.....it's just the logical progression.
>>58333476Let the Ukrainians operate from American naval bases. We're practically sleeping together now.
>>58333408No? Why would they possibly want to put that much money and equipment on one thing that is easily sunk via missiles or subs?Take whatever the carrier would cost and give them that same dollar value in artillery shells and HIMARS
>>58333408>>58333476Turkey is building ships for Ukraine, but obviously can't deliver them. Post-war, if Ukraine can grab Crimea they'll have a decent navy.https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/turkey-launches-300-foot-warship-for-ukraine-wont-arrive-until-2024
>>58333501I mean post-war. Power projection to deal with the residual Vatnik barbarian menace. Even if Russia collapses, its vandal hordes will run amok.
>>58333512Given ranges we'd be talking about in the black sea I think they'd be much better off with floating SAM batteries, subs and actual helicopter destroyers for ASW. There's not that much of a need for carriers except for deep strikes into Russia itself.
>>58333546Or to deter the Russian threat. Vatnik extremists are going to demand revenge if they lose the war. Especially fuckers like Dugin The Homeless.
>>58333563I was going to say the military planners would be deterred more by the threat of diesel electrics and aircraft under the cover of a powerful SAM umbrella than a showpiece carrier, but given that the retards in charge seem to not take military considerations in mind when planning you might be right.
>>58333660Russians are stupid. They'll freak out at the sight of a carrier.
Carriers are for force projection and/or prestige. Ukraine has no need to protect force over any oceans, and no room for prestige projects when there are real and present dangers right on their border. It's not a fit for their needs.
>>58333408I think we should MacArthur it and create a radioactive belt between their borders if for no other reason to shut up you war tourist shitposters.
>>58334007Awfully strange how weapons discussions in the context of Ukraine make you seethe but any mention of Russian weapons and nary a peep.
>>58333408They're unironically better off with subs and drones. Even something like China's little missile carrier boats would be more cost effective. Carriers are for power projection and the black sea is fucking small. Something like an F16 can take off from Lviv, launch a standoff cruise missile like Taurus for example over Odessa and cover nearly half of the black sea. Also carriers are expensive and learning to operate them is time consuming and even more expensive. It just geographically doesn't make sense and from a military standpoint doesn't either.
>>58333512how about after they win the war they're on their fucking own, it's not helping the taxpayers in other countries who fund this fucking shit its only helping the MIC
>>58334109We need the MIC to defeat China.
>>58334028it's an anonymous image board how do you know what else he posts?
>>58333408why would a landlocked country need ships
>>58334028I just said nuke them from orbit nigger, can you read? I'm more pissed off that you faggot cheerleaders on each side make it impossible to have a conversation about the most documented war at the individual level impossible on my board. We would be creaming our pants if we had this shit even five years ago, regardless of side, because combat footage is so extremely and exceptionally rare.
>>58334120the MIC is doing just fine anon, no need to pump more money into them. we could probably use more infrastructure in our home countries though
>>58333408you have this thing called poland which is better than having an aircraft carrier
>>58334109>m-muh taxpayersA line used by shills or actual retards that don't understand when they announce x billions worth of aid it doesn't mean that yooks are just getting that money. It refers to the value of the given equipment that as already been bought and paid for by taxpayers already.
>>58334208I'd rather send you my cum and shit than military hardware. And yeah, that'll cost aviation fuel.(I have no idea which side you're shilling either)
>>58334208my country is producing and donating armored vehicles and giving them to the ukies on my dime so stfu with your disingenuous bullshit, they're not just being given surp
>>58333408they do not need one. they can reach the entire black sea from the shore.
>>58333408Why not just make a giant robot dildo and fire directly at ourselves
>>58334141>le both sides are bad
>>58334341I literally live half the world away. The only effect on me is that I can't get Russian weaponry/ammo, and that the Euros are uppity because they were retarded enough to base their entire natural gas network on them. We have our own wheat fields, go gives a shit about Ukraine?
>>58334150Yes defund the miltare be weak wester swin- I mean partners
>>58334377Yes typical isolationist traitor drivel
>>58333408a drone aircraft carrier would be KINO
>>58334457>isolationist traitorThat is an oxymoron. Are you ESL?
>>58334377>can't get Russian weaponry/ammoAfter this is over you'll be able to get your blyatguns from Ukraine instead
>>58334377>asiatic mongoloid vodka niggers invade, rape plunder and kill white people in europe. ummmm. kys shit skin
>>58334436holy fuck speak English you retard
>>58334475isolationists are by default traitors.
>>58333408after the war, Ukraine is gonna have a ton of men with combat experience and not much else. they're soon gonna realise that it's easier to get what they want through force.the last thing you want to give them is force projection
>>58334563Oh lawd, sticking to my own is traitorous to some other faggots! Nah, fuck you. If I asked for help, you wouldn't. You can't have it both ways, and my way is America faggot
>>58334296actual retard if you can't tell>>58334300count the cost of what it takes, divide by the population of your countries tax paying population. For me it's 600 dollars using the maximum figure. Oh no 600 bucks that were gonna be taxed regardless and used for something else, it's not like they raised taxes on you specifically for Ukraine faggot, the only disingenuous shit here is your retarded take.
>>58333476Put surface to surface missiles on an LHD, redesigned it CG(H) and throw a fit over Kuznetsov if the Turks aren't buying it.
>>58334436>The militare Cackling
>>58334615>them taking money from you doesn't mean anything because they would have still taken your money gtfo big gov shill you're part of the problem
>>58334150>we could probably use more infrastructure in our home countries thoughHe already took care of that baby
>>58334983Literally today nigga can't even read a teleprompter. Obama was good at it, Bush was really bad and flubbed a lot, but their literary competency was never in question. Joe Biden literally has dementia. The fuck you on about?
>>58335007The man has had a lifelong speech impediment. Sometimes he flubs, get over it.
>>58335007Youre the one that can't read faggot. You bitched about no infrastructure, except president dementia passed your infrastructure bill
>>58335036Dude literally could not read a a teleprompter speech in the rosegarden yesterday, and couldn't for the last 5 years to the point that his campaign had to hide him "in the basement." There were worse ones more recently over the last two years, and fucker can't even climb an assisted-railing staircase.He was actually eloquent back when he was hobknobing with the 'ol segregationists in the 70s, so it wasn't always there.>basically fuck you, revisionist faggot
>>58334563>putting your nation's needs before foreign nations is treasonFreedom is slavery>>58333408Have you any clue how expensive carriers are to operate? Or the fact they don't have any STOVL planes to work off a small carrier? Or the fact they barely have normal pilots as is and no naval pilots? Or the fact we can't even put carriers on the black sea? Or even for a second think about what carriers are supposed to do and consider Ukraine, even if they had the money, has no use for a carrier? It'd be a total white elephant for them, even if the ship, planes, and pilots came free
>>58334563Too high IQ post
>>58334983oh shit did he finally replace the pipes in Michigan?gtfo retard
>>58335143>Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris, speaking Friday at the Belmont Water Treatment Plant in Philadelphia, announced $500 million in federal funding to repair aging lead pipes and upgrade the city's water systemNah he's too busy replacing the ones in Philadelphia. Keep coping fag enjoy your infrastructure
>>58335108Isolationists would have us in chains.They are children who subscribe to the delusion that by ignoring the external they can secure safety by building sand castles. They are blind to all external threats rationalizing that if it's not here it's not our problem. Then when that threat comes for them and they can no longer ignore it they are at severe disadvantage and if they somehow win it is at substantial cost. Even worse they never understand that one or the other is a false choice. We can fix internal issues while also maintaining standing in the external keeping all future threats at bay. So yes isolationists are tantamount to foreign agents who would seek our demise or traitors.
>>58335265I wonder how much they pay you sri lanken faggots, like .005 cents a post?
>>58335282Ukraine doesn't really provide a lot of support to us, and now the US rules the waves. Honestly, there's a lot of anti-Chinese shit (and it's very valid), but they're our largest trading partner. What does India do? Put municipal poo limits when our trading ships pull into port? lmao
>>58335284More than you cucks doing it for free :)
>>58335304>he admits it
>>58335298>but they're our largest trading partnerNo Mexico is.>What does India do?They do over $100 billion in bilateral trade with America
>>58335411Overseas doesn't have to be stated you insincere poo.
>>58335298>Ukraine doesn't really provide a lot of support to usThe ongoing war has allowed the US to entirely defang the conventional Russian military to the point that Poland could conceivably drive on Moscow with little resistance, for a fraction the cost of the shitshow in Afghanistan. It turns out local allies who actually give a shit are a force multiplier.
>>58333408>Current year>US shipyards being able to build/finish anything on time
>>58335443Don't give a fuck about Russia, we'd full nuke their entire shit if ever went hot. Don't give a fuck about Afghanistan either, although it is a beautiful country, it was just a failed shitty way to button-up Iran while not really caring that those hash-smoking sand monkeys couldn't stand up a stable government.Honestly, we should go back to economic imperialism and stop with the faggy pretenses, or otherwise not get involved at all.
>>58335482>>>58334845The solution is here
>>58333408It would be a waste of money.At most one amphibious assault ship. Really, if they have the money, they need DDGs and modern diesel-electric subs.
>>58335517> Don't give a fuck about Russia, we'd full nuke their entire shit if ever went hot.You know what that attitude gets you? It gets you "special military operation" level strategic planning. There are many national interests that cannot be secured with nukes aloneAnd what exactly do you think the aid to Ukraine is for if not economic imperialism? After they win they will be in our debt literally forever and join the EU and participate in all of our economic blocs. If they were to lose then all of their resources would go towards funding the enemies of America. If you want to be an empire, you have to defend your periphery. If you are unable or unwilling to do so, you no longer have an empire. For the US, this is what that looks like.
>>58335265that's not a bad thing to do I'll give you that, long way to go tho
>>58335535Ukraine is not in our interests. I guess moreso than some random country in South America or central Africa, but no. We'd be better-off getting our dick wet and keeping our military blade sharp, but that wouldn't be politically or publicly popular.That's why I hate these half-measures. I hate the entire mickey-mouse political goal of GWOT, but it did prove to keep our global military institutional inertia sharp.
>>58335535>After they win they will be in our debt literally foreverAnd who says they'll pay up? If we're not allowed to play diplomatic hardball what's stopping Ukraine from leaving the bill on the table? I get what you're saying but for every England and Japan we have at least 5 Afganistans and Haitis. There's no promise they'll do anything you say, for all we know once the war is over they'll start signing deals with China
>>58335562wtf man whatever that is I want one
>>58335613(It's a brisket/pulled pork "parfait," with mashed potatoes, gravy, and a garnish of chives. You could request having both meats put in at Miller Park at a brewers game.)
>>58335535>economic imperialism is when you give 30 year old equipment you were going to get rid of anyway Pls kys
>>58335629We weren't doing production runs on Javelins anymore, the most iconic shit you faggots got.
>>58335625I wish I was American. I don't even like baseball but I'd love to experience that, time to get a passport and drive down from the frozen north I guess
>>58335562> Ukraine is not in our interests.Why not> We'd be better-off getting our dick wet and keeping our military blade sharpDoes getting real-world battle testing data against your enemy not do that? I don't fucking get you, because deploying US troops in Ukraine against Russia would be way, way more involvement, and way more money> That's why I hate these half-measuresThe half-measures are about not getting too involved precisely so we can save money and lives. You seem retarded> it did prove to keep our global military institutional inertia sharpIn completely the wrong direction with a big handful of useless scrapped garbage projects designed for the last war when the next one is going to be in the islands of the pacific and not the sandbox>>58335582> And who says they'll pay up?They won't "pay up". They'll join our economic sphere and we'll reap the benefits that way. We'll be pumping even more money into the country for reconstruction, and those investments will pay dividends over time. Also we're going to make Russia pay for it, only fair> If we're not allowed to play diplomatic hardball what's stopping Ukraine from leaving the bill on the table?They want to join NATO so this doesn't happen again> for every England and Japan we have at least 5 Afganistans and HaitisWhich one do you think Ukraine is more like?> for all we know once the war is over they'll start signing deals with ChinaThey WERE signing deals with China before the war. They're actually under the Chinese nuclear umbrella. But now they want to join the EU.
>>58335652Well, count yourself blessed that your Arbys/Hardees/Carl's Jr has a decent fries and curds gravy boat at any corner.
>>58335652as an american it's great
>>58335660Why would they be? You're not us. Plain and simple, mate. If we're not committing our own assets, then our personnel don't get shit. But committing them means that they're worth the cause, which honestly they're not.But I guess none of our wars are. We should integrate Canada and death march Mexico. Fuck knows why we bitched out on Cuba.
the montreux convention prohibits aircraft carriers in the black sea by implication* and attempting to circumvent this restriction is how we got the slavshit cruiser classes in the first place.irl, the whole premise of this thread is moot. so just treat it as alternate history.* non-black sea states have capital ship tonnage limit of 15k; black sea states have no tonnage limit, but aircraft carriers are expressly excluded as capital ships.
>>58335672I don't eat a lot of fast food, we have amazing local fresh cheese curd where I live so if I'm feeling like poutine I make it home made with my homegrown potatoes >>58335682I will experience the full extent of american food when I finally visit again, I've already been to Maine years ago and had fresh lobster so I can skip that one but it's a long list of things I want to try. I'll be going purely for gun and food tourism
>>58333408Way too expensive for them and will take literally decades to learn, if your name isn’t France America Japan or the UK you’ve been priced out of carrier ops permanently
>>58335582>for every England and Japan we have at least 5 Afganistans and HaitisNot that we shouldn't get better at recognizing lost causes, but an England, Japan, or West Germany is worth any number of Haitis and Afghanistans.
>>58333408Don't think they can afford operating costs especially when you can't just drop in a single carrier vessel, it has to be accompanied by types of ships for protection. Especially against vatnig submarines.
>aircraft carrierSurely you don’t mean my>drone base vessel>helicopter destroyer>assault ship>cruiser with unmanned aerial characteristics
>>58333408Our government and tax dollars play a large part in this war, but the CIA has for years, because those guys were paying attention to Donbas and even played a part. John McCain was in there in 2016 saying the war was a go, speaking directly to Ukrainian troops. The same ones who, allegedly, have the mutiny. Not foreign mercs or volunteers.The question is will there be a US military in presence in Ukraine, will Crimea be in contention, will Putin even be in power. These things are being decided now on the battlefield, but the question of US military presence in Ukraine, on the actual Russian border, would determine whether or not we have this sort of thing.I think that so many factors are still being decided that it would be hard to determine the best course ahead of time. We do not know who will win the war, and even then, many will argue about who actually won and you have the political situation as well. It usually takes some time before people are objective about it all. Theoretically, it could escalate to global nuclear destruction, or de-escalate to ceasefire or diplomacy.The big issue is not the weapons but the fact that the Ukrainian government has persecuted the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. Zelensky himself is not a Christian, nothing wrong with that, but he is caught between Biden and Putin as a proxy of Biden basically. Because the US and Russia are just the two giant global nuclear superpowers involved.The Russian Orthodox Church itself, in defense of Putin and his government, his war, have silenced critics of Putin within the Russian Orthodox Church. But, it has happened, and led to anti-government protection of said critics by Cossacks. Now the separatists, the RVC, the American weapons in the Russia. They say "Russian Civil War" but honestly it is not the provinces fighting each other, that's not a civil war.This is something like a revolution, like they are going after Moscow and the Kremlin, to take over the government.
>>58335688>why we bitched out on cubaunironically, racists didnt want more hispanics in the country
>>58336196So a Russian patriotic group like RVC, who are Russians with the backing of Ukraine, who have a ton of weapons from the West already, who are just against Putin and the war itself. If that group took power, whatever flag they use, it will command Russian nuclear weapons and the Russian state and military. So, it will command that territory and land, which is controlled in just one capital city, and deal directly with other nations and governments. Hopefully, the Russian people get a better situation for themselves and not this bombing and dictator war and all this provocation and corruption in Ukraine. All this death, Christian brothers dying. If peace comes by revolution, then so be it. There are multiple pathways to ending the war and having peace.
>>58336220Unironically, Fidel had mfin nuclear missiles from the USSR and they tried to kill him multiple times, even invade Cuba itself. Fidel is death though.
>>58335660That's all fine and dandy, and I sure hope they follow through on their promises. However, picture this>war is over>Ukraine won>hell they even retook Crimea>but shits fucked>time for reconstruction>we come forward with a nice reconstruction plan>everything's laid out>even have a hard dollar value ready in hand>China shows up with a blank checkNow I have no doubt Zelensky will side with us, but will the Ukrainian people see it that way? Will they reelect him after he didn't pick the blank check? Will the situation after the war be dire enough that he picks the shortsighted option? I can't say for certain, hell this whole hypothetical might be a waste of brain power as China wouldn't even bother with such an offer. However I think it's something worth considering. Moreover, look at France, we liberated them from the Nazis, built a whole defense organization to help them against the USSR, and on top of all that they're our oldest ally, helping us through our revolution against the British. Yet what do they do after all we've been through? Leave NATO. You really can't trust any nation to not betray us in favor of something that benefits them more
>>58333408Build them a 'Marines Landing Support Ship', so that you're not bothered by the Montreux Convention. It's the size of a small carrier, built to operate close to the shore. Give it the capacity to hold as many Marines as will fit, and all the infrastructure needed to get them from the ship into small boats for the landing. Have one half of the top of the deck given over to shore bombardment guns and land attack missiles, and the other half filled with covered and permanent revetments for 'helicopters' (that just happen to be perfectly sized for an F-35). Call it the UNLSS Bohdan Khmelnytsky.
Here's a better idea, give Ukraine midget fiberglass submarines that can be used to stealthily blow up bridges or store a shit-ton of kamikaze drones and do deep-strikes inland.
>>58336128this is the smug redditor airhead response to the prompt. the "you found a machine gun? you didn't find a machine gun" of talking about maritime strategy.>>58336282There's really no question whether poland and germany will get the bulk of the reconstruction contracts.>francethey've always been fair-weather friends and they continue to share a number of russia's imperial delusions. but they didn't "leave NATO" or come close to doing so.>ginachina has already run out of blank cheques, for the foreseeable future. they're aggressively renegotiating or outright cancelling much of the belt and road.plus the easy money will be in taking over russian natural resource extraction, and a foothold in ukraine does nothing at all to improve their strategic depth. so it's unclear why they would pay much attention to ukraine's postwar recovery fund.
>>58334795>no counter argument>g-government shill!I already knew you were a retard, you didn't need to put it on full display like that. They'd love you on /pol/ faggot
>>58333408Post war yes. To cement NATO control over the Black Sea
>>58336282Ukrainian people think that the chinks must be destroyed, together with iranians, much of the middle east, norks, venezuelans, cubans and almost the whole of afrika.
>>58333408No.It takes a nation years and years to learn dedicated carrier operations to the point of combat effectiveness. Those resources are better spent focusing on long range bombardment technology, air defense, and fighter pilot training.
>>58333408No aircraft carriers allowed into Black Sea, give us Aquaman instead.
>>58333512Nah best choice for them would be some OHPs refitted with some VLS cells and some German diesel electric U-boats like the Type 212As
wonder what kind of funny threads kedditors will make when ukraine gets nuked
>>58333408>Ukraine> Their new Marine Corps can use it.How do you spell "crayon" in Ukrainian?
>>58336282I wouldn't be surprised if the EU show up with a blank check as well, given that european companies are going to profit massively from rebuilding ukraine.
>>58336282We hated chinks even before the war due to covid and shitty chink products, fuck them and fuck their peaceful capitulation plan. I'm proud my great grandfather mowed down gooks in the 30s for Red Army.>>58337328You forgot poos
