>mission was meticulously planned ahead of time>assaulting forces felt confident in the plan >primary objectives were in fact completed successfully>a helicopter being shot down in the city was a known risk AND planned for>American forces killed roughly 28 enemy combatants to every man they lost, depending on your source>people still consider it a failure of an operation
>>58331381Was it not?
>>58331381>killing a lot of sandniggers makes it successfulretard
>>58331396Sounds like the world became a slightly better place.
>>58331381>mission was meticulously planned ahead of timeClearly not since they had inadequate QRF and had to beg a bunch of thirdies to save them after shit went down.
The Russians would've done a better job
>>58331614They had a PJ squad that was at the first crash site almost immediately, followed by Rangers and Delta soon after. The second chopper going down in the complete opposite direction is what fucked everything up and required the 10th Mtn. to come in.One helicopter going down was something the ground forces could respond and recover quickly to. Two wasn't.
>>58331381Real life isn't XCOM bud, having a bunch of dead soldiers looks pretty bad even if you've completed the mission objectives.
>>58331689Seems it was not a known or planned for risk. To be fair though, you can't really plan for every eventuality.
>>58332039>Seems it was not a known or planned for risk.The fact that they had a squad specifically to be the first responders to a crashed helicopter means they had planned for it.The Super Six choppers weren't the first ones to get shot down in Somalia.
>>58331381It's impressive what kind of trials the men overcame but the whole operation was a giant shit show.
>>58331381Was being forced to scale back operations in the country due to backlash one of those primary objectives?
>>58331659WHO ELSE TO SEND BUT THE VDV!
According to Wikitravel:>In 2016, there were 14 documented attacks directed at hotels, restaurants, and the international airport in Mogadishu. Independent travel to Mogadishu will most likely result in your death.I bet you can probably just buy guns while you're there, right?
>>58331396Sounds successful to me.
>>58331381>be me>fresh from ranger school>finally time for a mission>suddenly everything goes to shit>hear that some of your buddies have been injured and you are about to be encircled>oh shit.jpg>delta force Übermensch super man soldier comes to lead your squad>feel good and confident again>delta force guy immediately gets shot in the head and diesFuck, imagine the absolute despair that those guys must have felt.
>>58331381While the battle of Mogadishu may have had its objectives met but it was just a part of Operation Gothic Serpent, which was a failure in that Farrah Aidid, the target of OGS, would not be captured and America would withdraw from Somalia. The battle itself played a major role in this outcome as the relatively high casualty count of the engagement (highest since Vietnam, not to mention how the Somalis treated the American dead) got suits and civs stateside turning heads and a few months later Clinton would pull the plug on the whole thing. The whole clusterfuck was already not optimal but in the context of US involvement in Somalia it was a decisive strategic loss.
>>583313892 Blackhawks went down, and the other 2 were damaged enough they had to crash-land and almost fell.BTW if your strategic goal is to bring peace to a region, then it was a failure. Engaging in a massive battle, killing lots of civilians and enraging the local population (I mean how would you feel if the Somali Army came to your city and started a massive gunfight with everyone and add rockets and miniguns from helis) is not the way to go.The people who planned this should have had the UN QRF on high alert. If OPSEC was a concern just make it an “exercise” high alert.
Just goes to show that things always go bad when every male has an ak47 and is out to kill you
>>58331381>failurewhat is one somali worth? Unless you killed a 100 trillion of them you are not going to cover the cost of one of those choppers
>>58331659The Russian Method:>Instead of trying to arrest the HVT, just shell the entire goddamn neighborhood, then blame it on the Chechens
>>58331381Their main objectives were pretty much a complete failure.But they managed to not get slaughtered very efficiently and responded to some shit ass situations pretty well
>>58331381It was a different time
>>58331659Oh yeah, like that bangup job in Beslan?
americans just love to go to third world shitholes and get their ass handed to then by the poor ass locals that don't even know how to read
>>58336694When did they do that
>>58335002Anon, the bigger picture was the Islamic contention for power, and the legacy of the Ethiopian and Somalian Cold War relations.They wanted to use foreign aid to establish power, the Islamic groups saw this as Western imperialism, so they went in and fought the Somalis for not accepting the aid basically.There was much more to Somalia than this incident as well, special forces operated in the region for a while. They might still be there in Somaliland seeing all this stuff going down, but a lot of stuff they do is secret.
>>58336774In the 80s, it was all about helping Ethiopia with foreign aid in their famine. But with Islamists and the legacy of the Soviets in East Africa, tensions simmered and the result was proxy conflict.
>>58331381>>58331614Bros, Pakistan literally fucked Somalis up for funhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_1993_UN_killings_of_Somali_protestors
>>58335002>I mean how would you feel if the Somali Army came to your city and started a massive gunfight with everyone and add rockets and miniguns from helisI just had an image of Somalis in helicopter gunships blowing the fuck out of my town and rolling around in technicals going "WOOO-LOO-LOO" and, yes, you're probably right, people would not appreciate that.
>>58331381>>American forces killed roughly 28 enemy combatants to every man they lost, depending on your sourceI would like to know more. Did those enemies include the women, children, elderly and other unarmed civilians or does those numbers come in addition? Or is this the only urban battle ever without civilian casualties? I mean, even those council guys that were nabbed in the raid didn't have any weapons on them at the time right?
>>58336527that m14 awoke something inside me when i saw this
Imagine mowing down crowds if women and kids from aircraft and calling them combatants to save face. Imagine having to ask Pakis to come and rescue your elite troops.
>>58336527This is why we need thermobaric rocket launchers.
>>58331381>American forces killed roughly 28 enemy combatants to every man they lostStill not a good deal.
>>58331381>mission was meticulously planned ahead of time>assaulting forces felt confident in the plan ...dude. Bad planning and overconfidence was like 99% of the reason why it turned into a shitshow.
>>58340809Could have just nuked it and said>They must of nuke>Chechnya has WMD
>>58331381They didn't even have samsThey literally used rpgs to take down the helicopters
>>58331381Rangers are fucking retards
>>58340876honestly that'd make the whole ordeal significantly more funny.
>>58331381The politics doesnt look good. End of story
There was film of a good American country boy being dragged dead out of a chopper by a mob in Africa. Not a good look for the President
>>58338418>nooo you can’t shoot civilians that are abusing your ROE by pointing out your position to the militia noooo
>>58338636Imagine shooting from inside a crowd of civilians as a shield and then complaining about civilian casualties afterwards
>>58340892Based nuclear option enjoyer.
>>58340969I think right after the fallout of it all they'd say the Chechans had the WMD and detonated it self too, after saying publicly they had to nuke them in classic russnigger fashion
>>58334766i don't think anybody would trade one american serviceman for 28 somaliansexcept maybe the somalians
>>58340994What country do you think has the most based nuclear doctrine? For me it's the frogs, I've got a sweet spot for the ASMP and the whole idea of using a nuke to show you're not kidding. I also believe counter-value is a better deterrent.
>>58335002>how would you feel if the Somali Army came to your city and started a massive gunfight with everyoneIt's called Minneapolis
>>58341075Honestly I'd have to say the frogs too, even though I fucking H A T E their gross ass marble gargling language.We have had awesome fucked up projects like pluto and orion though so kinda works out.
>>58331389>>58331414>>58334766when you're fighting bugs any kind of rate of exchange is unacceptable losses, because the enemy values its soldiers at zero
>>58341075yo that webm is fucking crazy, the dude shooting an SKS on horseback at full gallop... unreal
>>58337059>how would you feel if the Somali Army came to your cityThey already have
>>58331381The US is autistically causality averse.
>>58331381Why do they wear skateboard helmets instead of the CVC helmet?
>>58341535Delta wore skateboard helmets in the 1980s-1990s.
>>58341553I know, I just don't understand why they'd not switch to something that atleast had some ballistic protection but was still relatively light and available. I know they used British kevlar helmets at some point in the 90's, because they were lighter than PASGT's, so they clearly weren't entirely averse to switching comfort for not having their head blown off.
>>58341578Maybe it was more a question of not having faced an actual enemy for a couple of decades.
>>58341578In the book it’s said that Delta preferred the lighter helmets because their operations were typically conducted indoors, so they were more concerned about bumping their heads on doorways and such as opposed to ballistic protection.
>>58331381>lose 18 spec ops for no reason whatsoever just because Bill Clinton wanted to play general >success
>>58335002TFR wasn't a a peace keeping mission even if the over-reaching goal was peace/stabilityand even if they did come and save the day, a hodge podge of peace keeping troops does not constitute a qrf, telling them to be ready does not mean they will be or can be. The solution you propose, really isn't.
>>58340947Not sure the ROE in 93 but nowadays roe generally and explicitly allows you to shoot those people
>>58336527post yfw Gordy's gone, man
>>58342079lol, hodge podge? Keep coping that Pakis and Malaysians had to save your legendary rangers and Deltas.
>>58342182>Literally to retarded to understand what he's replying too>strawman I choose youTry again
>>58336527>believing this happened irl
>>58342229>to retardedLearn American before you insult me, son
>>58342319>I can't be wrong if I turn this into a shitting matchUnironically things it's as easy as >let's just include the pools in the planning Inb4 hurr ur retahded
>>58341514Where guns and uniforms Also >living in Michiganngmi
>>58342343lol, you are an ESL, or drunk. Show guns and passport.
>mission was meticulously planned ahead of timeHave you read the book? They executed a poorly led plan (just drive into the middle of Mogadishu with a light skinned vehicle convoy for extract) during the worst time of day when everyone was home and hopped up on khat and they knew the mission was fucked but they were being pressured for results.>people still consider it a failure of an operationZero (0) combat operations were conducted as part of Operation Gothic Serpent after the battle of Mogadishu. You can quote K/D as much as you want but that doesn’t mean shit when American bodies are being pulled out of helicopters on television and desecrated. Retard.
>>58340883It sounds like they shot it from the surface into the air. So by definition it's a SAM. Also whatever was left of com-bloc advisors taught them how to mitigate backblast and use them in teams where the first would make the chopper dump all their momentum to avoid the first shot, then hit it when it was relatively dead in the water.The rest were just rabble, but those RPG teams were trained in anti-helicopter warfare.
>>58342456 I'll post guns when you stop being silly and give an actual responseAlso no u show guns you're the one a few posts back trying to act like a europoor >wah you mis-used their/they're or too/to, chechmate
>>58341075Was it ever revealed if this footage was real or not?
>>58342543>have you read the book>immediately drops quote from the movie, presented as fact
>>58342629It's a Chinese nuclear test, not sure which one.
>>58342630>Just like… my vibes are right Consider suicide anon
>>58342543>Have you read the book?Have you? There's an entire segment where it talks about how Garrison wasn't willing to send troops into the area unless he knew for a fact that the targets were there. And the only reason they did it during the day was because it was the only time they that not one, but two of Aidid's officers were going to be there. It was either take a risk and jump on the opportunity, or wait and hope you had a good chance to grab each of them later.
>>58331396They're just regular niggers.
>>58336527This looks as ridiculous as those chink propaganda movies to me now.
>>58343056All you need to consider is why the US armed forces sponsored the movie.
>>58331381Because the goal wasn't to lose American lives, and the loss of American lives was so severe it crippled US willingness to invervene in events such as the Rwandan genocide. Somalia was only acceptable with near zero casualties, the battle of Mogadishu was a the armies largest disaster since Vietnam.
>>58331381>Sole objective of the operation is to kill or captured Mohamed Farrah Aidid>Do not kill or capture Mohamed Farrah Aidid>Instead get bogged down and suffer grievous casualties for the kind of operation it was>Give up on killing or capturing Aidid forevermore and abandon SomaliaColonel Giumale managed to win a war against the United States after only one battle.I'm an American and I'm white, but I'm not going to embarrassingly deny reality. We objectively failed.
>>58331381They knew it was extremely risky. They were aware of the radio interference problem, the communication relay delays, the lack of proper armor and air support, that the enemy’s were at their strongest at this time of day, that barricades could trap them in the city if there was any delay more than 30 minutes (such as a helicopter going down), etc. etc. It was an insanely risky plan, and they basically just relied on the fact that it was American operators vs a bunch of knuckle dragging skinnies to prevail. In the end, this did indeed save them from complete disaster. But they were too desperate to get Aidid. They were under intense political pressure, yet denied the necessary resources by the same politicians applying that pressure. It was basically an inevitable result. >>58331389No. The mission was a success, achieving all the goals and it was also unbelievably impressive that they weren’t all massacred. The 18 men lost were not enough to have a significant impact on future operations, either. The only reason it became a “failure”, was because politicians didn’t like the publicity of it. They always hate it when war looks like war.
>>58341523I've always wondered if that's a good thing or a bad thing.Sure, losing less men is always good, but leaving a conflict after a certain number of deaths is accumulated makes it look like a potential exploit.