Should Germany double down and deliver Tornados ?Are tornados even good ?
>>56899776Who will cry first, climate activists or pacifists if a tornado kills someone?
>>56899776>leftists don't want to inconvenience their komrade in Kremlin too muchShocking.
>there will be no western tanks in Ukraine>there will be no western planes in UkraineNext Ramstein meeting is on February 20th, the subject is aviation...
>>56899776Did Biden forget that the US is training Ukrainian pilots
>>56899789poltards as usual
>>56899868westerners are playing the maskirovka game kektalk about taste of your own medicine
>>56899868a common German talking point was>no tanks>no planes>no solidersnow we've entered a slippery slope and the red-lines aren't clear anymore.
>>56899789Climate activists are the most hawkish party in Germany, so no. Naturally it will be the nazi sympathizers that whine about German equipment being used by Ukrainians to kill Russians
>>56899939>geriatric man forgets thingshow's that unexpected?
>>56899789>The climate activists Retard, they were literally the one putting pressure on Sholz to deliver the Leopard.
>>56899804Leftists spent '22 declaring Putin the anti-communist, pointing out the inherent capitalistic nature of multiple private armies and the MOD in 'competition' with one another; or demanding more of NATO support, or trying to get the message out that 'Ukraine was not Israel, it is Palestine'. On the green end of things, the German Greens have repeatedly threatened to castrate Scholz, and want to see the viability of Vellum to be re-introduced as paper correspondence, as a sustainable way to make use of Russian skin.
>>56900134Based Greens know that Russian corpses make the best fertiliser. And it’s sustainable.
>>56899868>there will be no western soldiers in Moscow
>>56899939That doesn't necessarily mean they'll supply actual planes though
the Tornado sucks in wr thunder so it prolly sucks irl as well
>>56899776>tornadosWhy? They're worse the the MiGs or Sukhois Ukraine is flying right now. Just give them F-16s.
>>56901064since when does Germany have F-16?
>>56901091I was referring to the US and other NATO members there. After tanks the options for Germany to provide anything useful are pretty much exhausted. The planes or helicopters they could give suck ass compared to what other NATO members could provide or even what Ukraine operates right now.
>>56900166It's not sustainable. Have you seen their demographics? If we keep going like that, we'll soon reach peak vatnik and if we're not careful the vatnik will go the way of the dodo bird. Your kids might some day only know vatniks from Zoos.I know they are not cute like pandas, majestic like siberian tigers or intelligent like orang-utans but they are still part of the eco system.
>>56899776At this point it feels like Scholz is channeling the power of jinxing political positions. Or maybe it's the Ukie dark magic at work.
>>56899776>We will not send heavy weaponry>We will not send tanks>We will not send fighter jetsUkraine is gonna get fighter jets won't they
>>56899776Do you want a war with Russia? Because that's how you get a war with Russia
>>56901624Yes. What have you the idea that I wouldn't want that?
>>56901214Scholz is really fucking bad at PR department, Germany has sent a lot of shit to Ukraine, but he keeps somehow fucking up his standing regarding it
>>56899776Ah so we now see that Germany has chosen the way of wisdom. Not wishing to see their cities reduced to radioactive ash they begin to understand everything. No tanks will be delivered either, I think. Everything is understood.
>>56901735I mean that's the governments fault though. Why would you outright say you are NOT going to do something by this point? You are just limiting yourself.Saying "We will do everything in our power to help Ukraine now and in the future in accordance to the situation and available possibilities." is such a no-brainer.
>>56899868Excellent. Then, after the performance of the F-16s and F-15s are hampered, the F-35 will be sent.Then for the summer it can be decided that 10 NATO divisions will be deployed to assist with an offensive to clear the Donbas.Perhaps even China can become involved by invoking their treaty with Ukraine and annex the Far East.
Hopefully this is the turning point for Germany when they finally stop hoping Russia is going to win.>>56901742"If" is doing a lot of work there. Right now China and India are treating Russia like it has leprosy.
>>56899776pro russian german scum proly happy
fight jets don't seem very useful when both sides have dense ground-to-air defenses.
>>56902534Especially not Tornadoes.
>>56902534If you can launch Brimstone 2 from altitude it gives you a 60km range.
There's no reason for Tornadoes when F-16s exist in larger numbers, with more armaments and everything.Their only pro is that they're way out of date and more disposable due to F-35s replacing them I guess. But that goes for F-16s as well.
>>56902886The US won't block F-16s transfers if anyone else wants to send them. So right now the US isn't sending fighters.Until they do, but we're still not at that stage.