>Germany is sending 14 leopards of unknown designationOH NO NO NO NO
>14 tanks New wunderwaffe just dropped! We can finally cope with russias recent advances nafo bros!
>>568990132A6s already confirmed.
>>56899088Territorial gains don't matter in the war of attrition.
>>56899013Also USA is about to confirm they will send 30 Abrams. I think we are about to hear the music of western tank threads along an entire frontline. Captcha: 4njagd
>>56899013fuck off retard. 2A6 has been officially confirmed
>>56899118At least the pictures may be epic. First the DPR guys in steel helmets with Mosin nagants. Now burning German tanks with nazi insignia painted on them, stuck in the mud on the eastern front somewhere.
>>56899013Oh, and Poland has been given the go from Germany and is contributing another 14.
>>56899142leos with 501st heavy insignia when?
>>5689901314 leopards (Wiesel configuration)
Finnish defence minister is about to talk to the media, hopefully we will also spare a few.
Just to keep track:Poland: 14 Leo 2sGermany: 14 Leo 2sUSA: 30 M1 Abrams (likely)Spain: X Leo 2sTemporary total: 58
The Finnish minister of defense just confirmed that Finland will send an undisclosed number of tanks
>>56899168+12 challenger 2s
>>56899202Or rather that Finland is likely participating in the project but didn't confirm actual tanks yet.
>>5689922058 tanks + 12 challengers
>>56899220Okay let's call this the Tankcounter for the time being. Just counting promised vehicles for now.Poland: 14 Leo 2s (promised)Germany: 14 Leo 2sUSA: 30 M1 Abrams (likely)Spain: X Leo 2sUK: 12 Challenger 2sTemporary total: 70
>>56899168German media reports 1 batallion 2A6 and one batallion 2A4 as the first batch from european partners. Germany, Netherlands, Spain, Finland and Poland confirmed.
>>56899013>of unknown designationPer the German government's website:>Germany will provide a company with 14 Leopard 2 A6 tanks from Bundeswehr stockshttps://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-de/suche/bundesregierung-kuendigt-lieferung-von-leopard-2-panzern-an-die-ukraine-an-2160236
>>56899284Got any specific numbers of vehicles? A batallion is not the same size in every country.
>>56899282I also read about 88 (not kidding) Leopard 1's, but can't find any good source when searching.
>>5689929640 2A6 and 40 2A4 at this time. Norway is also on board, sorry I skipped over you guys.
>>56899321so, 14 Leopards 2 and 88 Leopards 1 coming from Germany?
>>56899321>Germany sends 14 Leo 2's and 88 Leo 1's to fight Russians in the Eastwhat the fugg is this timeline
Unironically why am I supposed to care about this war or anything else more then 20 miles from me
>>56899370Why are you even online? Go play in the snow. The world does not concern you.
>>56899370>why i am supposed to care about HD videos of leos and abrams crushing russian tanksi dont know why the fuck are you here but get out
>>56899321This is the number of tanks Rheinmetall would be able to provide Ukraine. However, no one has said they would be willing to pay for them yet, as they need some work done on them before they are usable. Ammunition would also need to be sourced from some country, as Germany does not have a stock of 105mm ammunition for their guns.
>>56899370The war will continue and eventually end whether you pay attention or not. If you feel like this is a waste of time just log off. Go outside. Nobody is stopping you
Until I find more public government confirmations I'm going by this. Key definer is hinted/promised for now.Poland: 14 Leo 2 (hinted)Germany: 14 Leo 2a6 (promised)USA: 30 M1 Abrams (hinted)Spain: X Leo 2 (hinted)UK: 12 Challenger 2 (hinted)Temporary total: 70
>>56899345What the fuck, are they planning to take Moscow?
I just found this on a Twitter account. It might be correct. I am not posting a link as it invariably gets the threads nuked.An overview of tank supplies to Ukraine right now:Confirmed:14 Challenger 214 Leopard 2A414 Leopard 2A6Awaiting full confirmation:4 Leopard 2A6 20-53 Leopard 2A430 Abrams M18 Leopard 2A4 14 Leopard 2A4/6Discussing:18 Leopard 2A66 Leopard 2A5/7
>>56899282I'm pretty certain the UK announced 14 Challenger 2s last week, not 12.If this >>56899284 >>56899345 is true, the count is hovering around 150 pledged as of the last couple hours. Looks like more will be announced throughout the day. France looks like they're going to send some Leclercs, but they're having an internal debate over how many and when to announce it as confirmed.France24 and DW news reported overnight that Germany has 350 Leopard 2s in working service at the moment, plus another 200 in "storage." What level of upgrade they are all at is in question, but the overall pool looks like 550 to draw from, with seom needing maintenance, upgrades &/or repairs.There's a fair chance 300 tanks could be announced before the weekend gets here. Which is the 'magic number' Zelensky said he needed to win the war. I feel that the U.S. might toss another 100 Abrams into the pile when the donations seem to start slowing down to boost the number to or past 300, just as a message to monke that another 100 or 500 can be thrown into the mix on a whim at any moment.
>>56899370Because if "Russia can just claim Ukraine is theirs, then China will eventually claim India is theirs and you will be fucked
>>56899429We might see some other countries chip in. Double the number and we literally have a german tank division. One spearhead brigade, two mech brigades. Could use a medium brigade to add bodies for woodland and built up areas. Still need more IFVs, though.
>>56899414Germany announced this morning that, along with the promised tanks, they are also supplying logistics, support, maintenance, and ammo to go along with all the tanks they are sending.The U.S. is also ramping up ammo production to completely restock everything that has been used and is about to be used. Not just for American equipment, but also to replenish stocks of European countries that send what they can into Ukraine immediately. The pipeline is being primed and charged, and it's intended to run for the next decade at heightened capacity.> tl;dr -- The West is on top of the logistics, supplies, & ammo required to support the equipment being sent.
>>56899489>Brigadegeneral Dr. Freudingsmile restored
what's the verdict on leos after turkey losing so many 2a4 in syria?
What benefit do tanks provide? Spoon feed me.
>>56899088>russias recent advancesMay I see them?
Can anyone tell me what is the hype behind Leopards 2? Are they some fucking indestructible over powered tanks that are going to roll straight to Moscow or something? I get that they're better than t-72s what would be the difference between 14 Leopards 2 vs 28 T-72s for example?
>>56899142>now burning German tanks
>>56899345>Norway is also on board, sorry I skipped over you guys.That havent been decided (yet). Only thing so far is that they've determined that about 8 A4's can be spared if they decide to go ahead with it
>>56899370>Please stop talking about my Russian faggots getting curbstomped!No.
>>56899512Turks, Arabs and other Muslims are as bad at armoured warfare as Russians
>>56899013I genuinely thought they'd never send 6As but here we are. Hopefully they train their tank crews well, those are damn fine pieces of kit.
>>56899013>Rh120 L/55big badaboom
>>568995122A6 platforms will probably be used as spearheads, 2A4 in support. Himars with m270 & k9s and all the infantry moving around on ???
>>56899574Also RU still doesn't seem to be aware how much battlefield knowledge matters.
>>56899526It's not a hype. Noone are saying they are the best tanks ever. But they ARE what most of NATO have on hand as the current MBT platform, and current means the logistics are all there. Every country giving them away are basically reducing their own combat strength in order to help Ukraine. This isn't mothballed crap dragged out of the darkest recesses of the storage parks. This is the best we have to offer. It better be good.
The recent globohomo hysteria over a few wunderwaffen tanks indicates the hohol cupboard is bare of ancient Sov eqpt. The scraps of wunderwaffen can't be deployed realistically for at least 6 months. Now, it's just hohol conscripts vs. Russian artillery dominance. globohomo's too dumb to have foreseen the following:1. Russia wouldn't blitzkrieg ukraine and thus give globohomo the 10 year insurgency war that they fapped over. 2. Russia would sit back and empty globohomo stocks of ancient Sov eqpt, using their massive firepower advantage. 3. globohomo would eventually declare victory and go home, like everywhere else
>>56899616Say globohomo again faggot
>>56899454>I'm pretty certain the UK announced 14 Challenger 2s last week, not 12.It started off as 10, then rose to 12 officially but online reporting now seems to be 14However the figures may be including CRARRV and Titan/Trojan
>>It better be good.Training the OG Ukrainian tankers might seem like an ordeal, but the usual training times we go for are kids who've never drove a car.
>>56899088Don’t worry, when these western coffins get blown to bits we can remind everyone that tanks were obsolete all along
>>56899013>unknown designation The chancellor’s press secretary said 2A6.
>>56899422>70 tanksSo this is the power of NATO??3:1 superiority is what you need to not get annihilated
>>56899586Oh for sure, getting accurate minute by minute ISR is allowing our allies to pursue this defense of Ukraine.
>>56899526The way post-cold war tank development goes, the model of tank matters a lot. There are more than a few T-72 derivatives (mostly operated by post-soviet NATO countries) that are more effective than first-model M1s and Leo 2s, through superior optics and 40 years of ERA development. There's a lot of mystique around 'muh western MBTs' since the Gulf War showed how completely modern tanks trounce Soviet era relics that don't have thermals. The 6A is the 'real deal' though.
>>56899686It's just the number since yesterday. I will not be greatly surprised if the number does reach 300 eventually. Considering how long this kind of support has been discussed the development is extremely rapid right now.
>>56899616Could you describe who or what globohomo is?
>>56899691In what conflict have these T-72 derivatives seen win fights against modern AT in all of its forms?
>>56899168Portugal sending 4 Leo 2A6
>>56899088Recent advances towards their own border?
>>56899738You have an official confirmation of that?
>>56899719None? I don't think any of them are combat tested besides the >>>Russian ones. No tank is going to survive modern AT either way, especially not when driven by inexperienced retards. No tank is invincible, and no tank can survive being driven by Arabs.
>>56899533wow this meme is so cool
>>56899013>weapons board >nobody even mention how isis destroyed a dozen of brand new leopard 2 tanks in northern syria back in operarion euphrates shield with using towthis board is for retarded rednecks who obsessed with their overly kitted semi auto rifles and hohol shills
>>56899754In other words our tank knower >>56899754 seems like a complete tanknerd a wannabe?
>>56899429Anon Russia has lost at least 1642 tanks so far. 80 tanks aren't going to be much
Other European countries were just waiting for this because they wanted to send theirs all along but couldn't without German consent.
>>56899013BY GAWD IT'S SCHOLZ COMING IN WITH A FOLDING CHAIR!
>>56899775You're the loveliest lidl russian supporter, dumb fun and telling us about russian ISR
>>56899795lies, none of them asked and German government isn't responsible for re-export licenses. A commission of the German parliament is, where the chancellor's party isn't needed for a majority.
>>56899088>lose kherson>gain some salt mining villagewe are winning ahkmat sila!
>>56899801Thanks. And, good grief, that is a third of their operative MBT fleet.
>>56899422Let's do this again:Poland: 14 Leo 2 (hinted)Germany: 14 Leo 2a6 (promised)USA: 30 M1 Abrams (hinted)Spain: X Leo 2 (hinted)UK: 14 Challenger 2 assumed (hinted)Portugal: 4 Leo 2a6 (promised)Temporary total: 76
>>56899813They sold this as 4 week win 3 day decapitation. Putin is either incompetent or delusional.
>>56899834German government spoke for all Leo2 operators and said two battalions of Leo2s.Your numbers are too low.
It's unbelievable how peaceful Europe is right now. Portugal sends away third of their tanks, Denmark ships all their advanced howitzers. Baltics send almost everything they had. Despite that, no western country feels it's border security is at risk.>>56899834Sweden's Minister of defence says that sending Stridsvagn 122 main battle tanks to Ukraine is "not out of the question" and it could happen at a later stage - SVT
>>56899844I know they are too low. I await numbers to be confirmed from the relevant countries before adding them. It is bad enough to add hints.
>>56899863lies, Slovakia refused to give away any of their T-72
>>56899871Greater Slovakia when?
>>56899871Slovakia are not part of the Baltics.
>>56899871Not surprised, both Slovakia and Hungary really loves Russia.
>>56899871They're not western Europe anyways. They've got to worry about Hungary on their border.
>>56899013>14 leopardsIsn't that the whole point? Everyone and their mother uses Leopard in Europe, so if every country can spare a couple, Ukraine can get quite a few, while no country significantly depletes their reserves
>>56899893What reserves?Those 14 Leo2s Germany is giving away are all their Leo2 target practice tanks.All other Leo2s are in active units.
>>56899013THEY ARE THE PANZER ELITE
>>56899893Yes, that’s the idea. It’s also a sign of european cooperation being alive and well after more then a decade of hardcore russian subversion. Which is really great news if you are from Europe.
>>56899718those leopards 2A6's?
>>56899118There is no such thing as a war of attrition. Attrition warfare is a thing (defined as a state of war where neither party has the capability to make strategic or tactical maneuvers), but what we call a war of attrition is in fact a war of industry, and history has shown that pretty much no nation can maintain an industrial war on its own indefinitely. It isn't that territorial gains don't matter during attritional warfare, its more than it is almost always too little for too high a cost, and only after pounding every single ounce of strategic or tactical value out of the location and litter it with enough unexploded ordinance to make extracting resources unsafe for years to come.And the largest determinant of who wins wars of attrition hasn't been technological edge, hasn't been manpower overmatch and haven't been material overmatch.It has been isolation. Whomever has the most friends to forestall the collapse of their industry and economy, or has good enough friends to outright substitute domestic industries with assistance, wins. End of the day, given a certain population size, all-out war will create a industrial burden too large for said population to carry.In other words Russia is utterly fucked because all they have is North Korea giving them their full support, while Iran tries to do the bare minimum to warrant their status as ally, and India and China buy up russian resources below the market price because they know their "ally" has no fucking choice either way.
>>56899919what's this European cooperation?>The EU and NATO have respectively 27 and 30 member states, of which 21 are members of both.both EU and NATO seem to be failing.a new ad-hoc coalition is created to support Ukraine with Western MBTs.
>>56899937he was making a joke, parroting a common Russian talking point
>>56899118> Territorial gains don't matterCope
>>56899834According to "news" from this >>56890741 thread, the Netherlands could be sending 18.Needs confirmation, but they might even be 2A7 upgraded.The Challengers from the UK are promised as part of an arms package announced last week. Delivery date hasn't been announced, but at least 14 are guaranteed, and there's talk a more to follow, perhaps 50 total or another 50 additional?France is debating their MBT, but it looks like the answer is "yes," but the numbers are being argued. I've seen numbers like 30 or 50 suggested, not certain how solid the basis for those guesses are.Finland announced something over the weekend; I think some tanks were in it but not certain if or which model (probably Leopard 2s?).Temporary total is at least 94, with unannounced numbers probably becoming announced numbers this week, possibly today. Could be easily be another 100 or even 250.Zelinsky said he "needed 300 to win" last week. The Ramstein meeting on Friday probably had a very specific discussion on how to meet that goal. Or, better yet, exceed it by a significant margin.
>>56899711I will be amazed if the total number exceeds 100 let alone 300
>>56899952It's not like the Russians are getting any.
>>56899963The rest of us are amazed a paste eater such as yourself can even find the Internets to shitpost all over threads in which you are completely uninformed on the topic. But, here we are.
>>56899953Germany estimated delivery of their Leo2 company in 3 months.Would assume that's coordinated to have a whole battalion ready.
>>56899370SVR agent you are not fooling anyone.
>>56899963I will not be surprised if we get the first 100 by midnight. The reason is simple: Once Germany and USA have committed, everyone else can follow, and everyone else have already been debating this for months. I'm particularly expecting USA to have a lot of equipment available since they have heavy equipment storages all over Europe, and some of that stuff hasnt been touched since Iraq. Germany has an interest in making the best of it now that they have committed, since their Leos are up against South Korean competition in a lot of countries buying new tanks. A big fat win for the Leos and South Korean tank will have very little combat experience to show up with.
>>56900061sounds like a fantasy.remember when Poland gave away their T-72s and wanted lots of Leo2s in exchange?Germany said there aren't any in the foreseeable future.So Poland went elsewhere.
>>56899370puccians also thought that
>>56899360>>56899349Ja! Ze best timeline
>>56899282What about Finns? Im pretty sure they were also eager to send some tanks.
>>56900177We are sending a small, likely unspecified amount
>>56900177I have not heard any confirmations yet. I only add to the table if I have heard the govt confirm or at least mention a specific number.
>>56899815reminder that Spain wanted to send 20 Leos last year already, but after checking them they were in no condition to be send. If the Spanish Tanks were combat ready, we could've had Leos in Ukraine before this shitshow the last few days
>>56900061>expecting USA to have a lot of equipment available since they have heavy equipment storages all over Europewon't Poland be pissed after USA just sold them ancient M1A1 last month?
>>56900233Poland seethes all the time anyway while following the US's lead.
>>56900231So they likely went to Kassel or Munich for some love.
>>56900233It's not like the Euro storages have the best of the best anyway. This it the equipment that goes on combat missions and on every exercise in Europe. I am sure it is mostly serviceable but I bet it has a lot of mileage too.
>>56899370https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_and_Black_Lives_MatterI too that russia is a positive and progressive influence on the USA making it a better place
>>56899775>>nobody even mention how isis destroyed a dozen of brand new leopard 2 tanks in northern syria back in operarion euphrates shield with using towBecause A. we talked about it when it happened (you obviously weren't here, tourist) and B. no one with a half functioning brain is surprised that fucking TOW missiles rape tanks.
Ah. There's a White House thing coming in about 3 hours regarding tanks to Ukraine. Should be interesting.
>>56899088Russia's latest advances = conquering a shit house in the outskirts of Bakhmut
>>56899454>France24 and DW news reported overnight that Germany has 350 Leopard 2s in working service at the moment, plus another 200 in "storage." What level of upgrade they are all at is in question, but the overall pool looks like 550 to draw from, with seom needing maintenance, upgrades &/or repairs.Germany sends active A6 from the military. They only have A6 and 7.
>>56899272seeing Gonzalo Lira aka Coach Redpill involved in this whole shitshow is surreal af.I remember how he appeared during the very end of the whole GamerGate faggotry and immediately started grifting and sucking off everyone with a sub count over 1k.Then it came out that he was involved in some serious fraud shit, but he was so entrentched in the griftosphere that no one really cared. Still, he was always basically just a nobody with a tiny following.And now he's chilling in Kharkiv, hoping le based trad Russia saves the west.What a time to be alive.
>>56899718This what happens when you give aryan equipment to retarded turks. The Ukrainians at least know how to fight.
>>56900295They have newer stuff than M1A1>The 405th AFSB fully activated all of its Army Prepositioned Stocks-2 sites, and for the first time in the brigade’s APS-2 program history it was tasked with outfitting an entire armored brigade combat team deploying to Europe from the United States during a real-world, no-notice contingency mission following Russia’s unwarranted invasion of Ukraine.>>All four battalions assigned to the 405th AFSB prepared and pushed out hundreds, some thousands, of APS-2 vehicles and equipment pieces from their respective APS-2 sites starting as early as February 2022, to include an entire ABCT in support of the 3rd Infantry Division’s 1st ABCT deploying to Germany from the U.S.
>>56899775>brand new>A4 export modelsKeep coping Vatnigger
>>56900378Do Ukies really?Everyone is talking about giving Ukies enough Leo2s for a tank battalion?Which modern army still has tank battalion and not combined-arms battalions?
>>56899751Yes it has been confirmed here. It's not much but we only have 37 in total, and we need to keep the spaniards and the moroccans in check!
>>56899616you really need to stop saying "globohomo" becuase it makes you sounds like a massive fucking dumbass with an obsession with gay sex
>>56899616is "globohomo" in the room with you now?
>>56900233The US sold Poland M1A2 Sepv3
ITT: people are shocked to learn that anti-tank missiles are able to destroy tanks.
>>56900413It’s convention to count stuff in equivalents. Because combined arms units come in different compositions.>>56900502As if they were designed to defeat tanks. Really eye opening.
>>56899902that doesn't mean that they don't need them though.>>56899919>It’s also a sign of european cooperation being aliveEspecially if you compare it to the usual amount of bickering going on in Europe. I'm glad that for once we can agree on something with just a moderate amount of countries throwing fits about it.
ITT: globohomo seethingKek
>>56899442>>56899422A list who has Leopards.
>>56900610Wouldn't you declare war on those non-NATO members if they dared to send modern MBTs?
>>56899370>if I can't see it, it can't see meliterally childbrained
>>56900582how does a marginal numbers of European countries speak for all of Europe?doesn't make sense.
>>56900623No, you might threaten them with cuting gas delivery.
>>56900610I wasn’t even aware how large the spanish army was for european standards. They sure can spare a company or two of the E models.
>>56900679what European standards?compared to a same-size country like Poland, it's the same.
>>56900716Spain has no hostile neighbors, though.
>>56900728The Basques will start a revolution the moment you stop threatening them with tanks
>>56899533hello how does it feel being apart of the brainless lot of people that believe the western, wunderwaffe, superior alien technology, big gun on tracks can't simply be taken out by an underfed conscript with a boom stick
>>56900728I wouldn't call the neighbors to the south non-hostile.Morocco still thinks Spanish Ceuta and Melilla should be Moroccan.
this thread will be really cringe to read in about a year.
>>56900316Sounds like a leak. Reuters and Bloomberg says USA will contribute 31 Abrams tanks.
>>56900177>>56900208>>56900226Most likely 5 + training according to insider source
Are all these delivery announcements meant, at least hopefully, to shock Putin/Russia into giving up because they know it's hopeless and better to quit than to be beaten?
>>56900786>attacking a NATO member>attacking a NATO member on the coast>>56900741This is probably it, desu. Madrid are salty cunts and want to keep the country together. It's probably for the best though, the autonomous regions get the best of both worlds with the generous provisions they've got carved out.
>>56899165>inb4 russoids get BTFO by modernized Metal Slug
>56899718>roach-infested 2A4snot even a (you) for (you), get out
>>56900880>>attacking a NATO member>>attacking a NATO member on the coastthis doesn't make any sense:are you saying no NATO member needs any army because NATO will defend them?
>>56899370You shouldn't, you should also cut your internet connection.
>>56900876It certainly means that an offensive force of some strength is being assembled, with more muscle than Ukraine has today. It also means a much heavier western logistic element must be brought close to the front, in the nearest country available. Also more CAS will be needed or all that armor will be arty food; I'm thinking F16s. But several months could go before this new force is ready to stomp. What it means is that the russians have time to start worrying, and that the Ukies will know NATO and EU is finally moving their real gear into the game. Helluva motivation that, knowing a whole tank fleet is coming up to support you.
>>56900907I'm saying that Spain doesn't need more tanks than France when France actively is running an empire in Africa.
>>56899515metal box go vroom and bang
https://www.elmundo.es/espana/2023/01/25/63d0e176e4d4d875198b45cc.htmlSpain confirmed to be sending 53 leopard 2a4s20 soon and 33 requiring fixing first
>>56900946can Spain fix those themselves, or will there be a queue in Germany?
>>56900946Not if I can trust Google Translate. Article says how many tanks exists. The govt havent mentioned any number. Not in that article anyway.
> german and russians tanks will once again be doing a war on the plains of eastern europe
>>56900979But this time Russia does not have the entire world feeding them shit.
>>56900979don't think Ukies are retarded enough to do outdated tanks vs tanks battles.Ukies know how to use ATGMs.
>>56899088>perfectly average western tanks are a wunderwaffeNever change Vanya.
Hah, I just saw the German spokesman confirm the 14 tanks... but he added it would take about three months before they can be sent into action.
>>56901358>wanting to send your tanks into action during Rasputitsa
>western tanks confirmed to be delivered at some point in future>the amount of butthurt serb, vatnik, and pajeet threads increases tenfoldI wonder how bad it will get once they actually enter Ukrainian service.
>>56899013good, start by dumping leopard 1's there
>>56899526Leo 2s make M1A2 Abrams look like slavshit. And thats just the Leo2A5.
>>56901371thinking 3-4 months to show up in lviv and then another 3 months to get ready for a june-july offensive at best
>>56901449Leopard 2 Improved is Strv 122, which has insane frontal protection. The average Leo2A5/A6 does not have that kind of protection, especially not to the hull.
>>56901506Idk, the leo2 improved was the name given to the pre-production Leo2A5s. This trial was in 1993, and the Strv122 was developed specifically for the swedes with a view to meeting their requested changes to remedy their perceived shortcomings relating to the Leo2A5, being first delivered in 1997. So this is almost certainly an early Leo2A5 being trialled. The M1A2 being trialled is likely the baseline M1A2 and represents 2nd gen DU composite, but not the 3rd gen of the SEP or M1A1 AIM.
>>56901390Be prepared for weeks of endless spam with pics of destroyed leos from years ago and then even more when, inevitably, some of them actually do get destroyed.
>>56901449>keeps posting this despite getting btfo in every other thread you post it instay seething
>>56901748Are you the seething guy who got made to look like a clown in the other thread?
>>56901763Which KWS would that be, 1? That’s not even 2A5.
>>56901824Leo2A4, i initially thought it was. 2A5 but i was corrected in the other thread that it was a 2A4 / 2A4C, as this report came out before even the early development of the 2A5.
>>56899088post gas station Alfa
>>56900375Why does he look like a hobo now? He looked like some average boomer before but now he has a look of either a homeless man or a man with a while van
>>56901358Three months are three months. Transport should be within range of a couple of weeks, getting them from mothballed to combat ready should not take more than another couple of weeks (these are not big quantities of tanks per country) and retraining existing tank crews (I assume they don't train green recruits to use these machine but use the best crews Ukraine already have) should still take a month? Eh, I guess 3 months isnt too bad.
>>56901862isnt it accepted that the leo2a4 is kinda crap
>>56899834And the Abrams are confirmed by the White House!Poland: 14 Leo 2 (hinted)Germany: 14 Leo 2a6 (promised)USA: 31 M1 Abrams (promised)Spain: X Leo 2 (hinted)UK: 14 Challenger 2 assumed (hinted)Portugal: 4 Leo 2a6 (promised)Temporary total: 76
>>56902022War is hell.
>>56899013US is now sending 31 Abrams tanks https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon/2023/01/25/in-reversal-us-to-send-31-abrams-tanks-to-ukraine/
>>56902036Only in the sense that any vehicle from 1985 is not gonna stack up to modern stuff. It'd be like sending basic barebones M1's.
"Good news" promised soon with regard to "sustainment for new platforms" in regard to Abrams.
>>56902025they're not mothballed, they're Leopard 2A6 from active German army stocks3 months is how long training etc. will takeI assume they'll train together with the Marder crews directly
>>56899834>Spain: X Leo 2 (hinted)The spanish leo 2s are old A4s that have been parked in an open field for at least a decade. They arent in running condition AFAIK.
>>56899272Leopards are just armed Volkswagens.
>>56902133I could have sworn they said the German ones would come from the Reserves, not active. But it is getting hard to keep track of sources now.
>>56902194I don't think there are A6 in reserve, but idkapparently there are even 19 A5 still active, so kinda surprised those weren't pledged instead
Woops, and now Norway have promised tanks. No numbers quoted yet though. The parliament only had discussions on the topic yesterday, officially, which makes this a lightning fast decision. Norway only has Leos.
31 M1A1 ABRAMS TANKS CONFIRMED FOR UKRAINE MOTHERFUCKERS FLOODGATES OFFICIALLY OPENEDhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uPoDNEn3I0
>>56902249>A1How does that compare to a modernized T80 or T90? I don't know much about tanks, but afaik the A1 is kind of old no?
>>56902290It depends on if its been upgraded or not. Could be an M1A1HA, M1A1HC, M1A1D, M1A1 AIM.v.1, M1A1 AIM v.2, M1A1 FEP. A baseline M1A1 compares relatively poorly to a modernised T-80 or T-90 in terms of armour, but the T-72/80 line's armour is also very inconsistent, its more of an armour band, not complete coverage like in NATO tanks. An M1A1 AIMv.2 or FEP would compare well.
So let's review. The latest wunderwaffen, a hodgepodge assortment of tanks totaling <100, has been proposed by globohomo to Putin as a necessary face saving tool so globohomo doesn't look responsible when the hohols collapse under the overwhelming artillery barrage Russia is putting on them. And Putin has approved, which is rather nice of him, don't you agree?I mean, he could have put his foot down like he did with heavy long range missiles,. But he's a nice guy apparently and has gifted globohomo with the means to bullshit the likes of the kommandos.Plus he gets his hands on some of these machines when the hohol crooks sell them to him. So it works out for everybody, except all the dead hohols of course.
>>56902036Its armour, optics systems, and FCS are outdated now, but the leo2 stabiliser was pretty famous for its ability to not spill a stein of beer attached to the gun over rough terrain, there are upgrade programmes which have either brought it up to modern standards (e.g.Leo2A4PL) or just upgraded it to 2A5 for most NATO countries. It was good on introduction, and a lot better than a Leo 1, which werent really designed to take any hits at all. Its US equivalent is a baseline M1A1. In terms of mobility and firepower its still good though, even without modernisation, and is more than a match for some T-72B or T-80U if used properly. The 2A5 is the really good older one from the 90s, and the 2A6+2A7 are the really modern ones which are among the best in the world.
>>56902505I literally dont care, i just want to see NATO tanks do what they were built to do. This is like a limited CWGH scenario.
>>56899013They including heavy logi vehicles for these tanks or can current Ukrainian ones support them? Either way I cant wait to see Bradleys, AMCs, Challys, Leapords and Abrams in a combined arms battle. Its Desert storm all over again.
>>56902636>i just want to see NATO tanks do what they were built to do.You could call hohol HQ and I'm sure they can work up a price for you on that. Better move fast though.
>>56902935At least USA and Germany have said they will provide necessary logistics, and so far they are the biggest contributors of MBTs.
>>56902943What? Theyre going to royally fuck over Soviet tanks the Russians are using. I dont have anything against the guys operating them, but i think its fitting that the NATO tanks finally fight and defeat the tanks that they were built to destroy, which are being operated by the people they were meant to fight, and being managed by a mostly competent military using soviet doctrine and combined arms. This is like a scenario from the last days of the cold war.
>>56902162Spain is also operating a large fleet of 2A6 equivalents, might be those too. Any spanish anon with the sauce?
>>56903008And the hohols can give you all that, for a price.
>>56902225The 2A5s are the OPFOR tanks for tanker training, or at least that is what german press were telling us. It likely makes more sense to just upgrade them to 2A7V to recycle the hulls. Or they will stick L/55s on them and send them after er refit in a future donor round.
>>56899321Ukraine asked Rheinmetal for 150 Leo1's, Rheinmetal said they could give them 88 (HH kek), but Scholz said no.
>>56900880>attacking a NATO memberIronically Ceuta and Melilla are not included as NATO's territory.
>>56899013azov leopard 2s with dirlewanger insignia raking vatniks when?
>>56903295NATO and EU have been crowbaring Sholz for weeks on this. I really wonder what made him cave in. Was he given something really tasty or was Germany about to lose something he values more than his friendship with Putin?
>>56899138in 5 months to a year or two, after ukraie has been conquered.
>>56902041netherlands confirmed 14 Leopards as well.https://twitter.com/Defensie/status/1618313467584475136
>>56899878When they realise their terrible mistake and come crawling back to the Czechs, choking back tears as they say that they've forgiven them for stealing the flag of Czechoslovakia from them.
>>56902041Can we just get a tank counter thread or something?
>>56903581No, that's not what it says (according to google translate). The Dutch only say that they will try to contribute. No numbers give,
>>56903619Not really worth it. The counter will be moving for weeks, maybe months.
>>56899013I thought tanks were obsolete
>>56899717NTA, but I will give the non-retarded, sane answer to their obnoxious delusions.For reasons beyond mortal ken, they are under the impression that the world would be a much more stable and safer place if there were multiple power blocs of equal strength and competing interests instead of just one super power governing everything.After all, it's not like the entirety of human history until about 60 years ago was a violent, miserable and nigh unending clusterfuck of biblical proportions because of this very same thing they are championing.
>>56901449They could just stick some arrowheads on the M1A1 if it was an actual concern
>>56903714Who said that?
>>56902450I don't think we have anything older than M1A1 AIM v.1 still operationally ready anyway.
>>56903795Just the one guy, but he starts a thread claiming it every day.
I wonder if they'd let foreign volunteers crew an Abrams that'd be super fun
>>56903889That would be stupid. Why waste elite training on foreigners when it can be spent on your homeboys? Now if some of those foreigners already have Abrams training and can speak fluent Ukrainian there might be exceptions.I don't think I would use the word 'fun' about operating any of those new tanks though. They will wade through russian tanks, but they will also be barraged by every arty, rocket and plane munition the russians can still pony up. Back in the stone age when I was doing my service, tank crews were expected to have a 7 second life expectancy in combat. Probably up to 30 now, but it is still a pretty narrow definition of fun.
>>56903499Scholz has been saying for months that he'd only send Leopard 2s if his NATO allies started sending tanks too. That's what this whole negotiation was all about. He wanted the US to send Abrams. Scholz has done nothing except do what he always said he would so. Why are people so confused about a politician sticking to his words?
>>56903812I think there are about 900 SEPs, but there may well be more than that. I dont know how many AIM v.2s or FEPs there are tbqh. Going to be honest with you. I dont actually know if the M1A1 AIMv.1 was an upgrade of M1A1HA or M1A1HC (or both), or indeed if all M1A1HA were upgraded to HC. The AIM v.2 and FEP are all 3rd gen composites similar to the M1A2 SEP, but everything else is equivalent to baseline M1A2 (2nd gen) at best. Idk if any M1s or M1A2s remain unupgraded, or indeed if any remain with the 1st gen HA upgrade. >>56903739They could, not sure if they would. I suppose if war broke out then they might, but the US hasnt really had to do much but engage monkey model T-72s with thermals and later just lob HE at towelheads. Air power is the US's priority for budget and development, then navy (in large part an accessory to air power), then land.
>>56899370>why should i care about weapons on the /k/ - Weapons board?gee idunno anon i wonder why
>>56899088>Recent advancesStill trying to sell a few kilometers after months as a big win I see
>>56903947My brother in christ, in a CWGH scenario everyone's "life expectancy" was ridiculously short. The average BAOR infantryman had one of 2 hours. Imo its all melodrama.
>>56904301Melodrama? I dunno, it seems to me the current battleground in Ukraine is littered with corpses from both sides. And while I pause to use the word 'planning' about russians, they now have three months to gather stuff that goes boom. As long as that armor don't have air support, it's not going to be fun to be inside.
>>56904341Russia doesn't have effective air support on the battlefield either, so air threats to armor is limited. That leaves ATGMs, artillery and tanks. I would assume these will be used as breakthrough units and only move into engagement range when attacking. NATO intel targeting Ukrainian HIMARS and smart artillery will take care of in place artillery and armor on the Russian side immediately in advance of the strike. That leaves infantry threats; will some be lost to ATGMs, sure, but if they trade 30 Leopards and their crews to make the breakthrough that liberates Melitipol or Mariupol its worth it.
>>56903499Same with every other weapon system this war; when the pressure got too overwhelming he ran out of excuses>>56904071>Scholz has done nothingThis much is true>Why are people so confused about a politician sticking to his words?Because his words change all the timeFirst it was "nobody asked yet"Then it became "nobody's offered to give any"Then it became "we will if the US does"Twat
>>56899013How many are Poland and Spain going to give to them?I think that the dutch also want to send some?
>>56904450We don't have numbers for any of those yet. Remember that these are current issue stuff, not something from the back lot. Most European countries will notice it hard if they donate 20 of their best tanks and right now they can't just buy more for immediate resupply.They will be thinking twice, thrice and fourth before saying a definite number.
>>56899454So... 88 tanks. 14 Challys. Hmm. NATO is unleashing its full magical number sorcery cabal
>>56899775Turks sending Leopard 2A4s into an ambush without >ERA>APS>infantry support>air support>intelligence>threat assesment>planBasically all the shit Russia tried to pull last year, but worse
>>56900375>be CRP>shill for Nigeria with snow>SBU picks you up>for some reason they mistake you for some kind of oligophren so you don't have to end up in a ditch with a bullet hole to the skull
>>56903718They say thats what they support, but they just want a Russian-Chinese block to rule over everything, NWO-style. Its not a "multipolar world" at all, its just another world domination type deal.
>>56899118Correct and Ukraine wasted like 15,000 souls in Bakhmut. That’s what winning looks like bro!
>>56904152Considering the army fields some 2500 Abrams tanks (marines around 400), 750 are M1A1SA, over 1600 are SEPv2, another 150-250 are SEPv3, then there are like 3700 various models of M1A1/M1A2 in storage.Assuming we are dipping into recently removed from service, but in storage, they're probably AIMv.2/FEP/SEPI can't see why they'd send anything older.
>>56903718So the constant globohomo wars of these past 60 years never happened?Delusional.
>>56905947You mean commie and anti commie skulduggery? Or is globohomo just western countries indistinct of whether they take away your shit-like commies- or not
>>56900876Putin has been given many chances by this point to pull out of Ukraine and he refuses to because it will hurt his pride. He could easily spin it to the Russians that "See, look, it took all of NATO to get us to retreat!" to avoid being dragged out of his palace kicking and screaming. Yet he continues to double down on this weird assumption that the West will just... give up. The West hasn't even given substantial military aid to Ukraine yet. We're currently at second-string tier equipment. We've avoided sending the truly powerful stuff like aircraft in the hopes that Russia will just leave and stop trying to escalate, but it looks like Putin would rather sacrifice his entire economy, stores of ammo, hundreds of thousands of lives and every last bit of reputation Russia had gained after the fall of the USSR than just admit this entire war was based on a gamble that didn't work.At this point, even if Russia starts popping off tactical nukes or worse, the West is not going to back down because if we back down, that emboldens Russia to simply hold the next country down the line hostage to nukes and allows them to take whatever they want. So if this truly is what starts WW3, than Russia will forever be known as a pariah state, its citizens forever being known as the ones who stood by and did nothing or aided in the deaths of millions if not billions, & Russia itself would cease to exist, becoming the most irradiated stretch of land than anywhere else. And yeah, the West would likely suffer horrific damage, but it certainly wouldn't be wiped out like Russia would.
>>56904716> not wanting CRT and LGBT in your kids school makes you a Russia-China supporter
>>56900770>hello how does it feel being apartDon't know, sounds painful. Is that what happened to your dad in Ukraine?
>>56899834Canada supposedly announcing 4 Leopard 2s to start. Could be A4s, 5s or 6s.
>>56899775Leo 2a4 are old and contemporary with M1A2, its possible to kill most MBTs from the side in an ambush, but older leopards are particularly badly armoured on the side. Newer stuff like a 2A6 or 2A7 have good side armour, not quite as thick as a Challenger 2 with TES, but pretty good. >>56905843If recently removed from service then its going to be the M1A1 FEP? (Btw why did the US. Marines retire their tanks anyways? Ik its a bit unusual for marines to have tanks, but then again the US Marines are their own corps for whatever reason.)
>>56907849Yeah FEP would be my guess.
>>56906666Ok, but why would you not want that in their school. Would you prefer them being taught a magical world view where wishing for something very hard makes it become true and not obeying the priest caste gets you to a place of eternal torture, because life sentence is not enough?
>>56899952Germany made big gains right before the end of ww1
>>56900124Because the german pussy government doesnt want to place an order
Canada considering sending 4 lol. They have 80+ but apparently they aren’t maintained
>>56909408Remember, all Canada has to do is 10% of what the US does. That's it. I know it seems small but that's their part
>>56909430The Portugal is sending 4 and Canada is 4x the population.
>>56899834Where are my greeks at?
>>56909430Should be closer to about 8% based on comparative GDP.
>>56906666Nothing wrong with either one of those. If your kid gets convinced to become a nigger-loving tranny and chops off his dick, he was a subhuman to begin with, and dick removal just ensures that he won't pollute the genepool any further.
>>56903739Swedish trial featured an export armor pack on the M1A2 that substantially underperformed vis-à-vis the Abrams of the time with the gen 1 DU inserts. Protection-wise with the turret should return negligible difference in protection between the two, but the one aspect the leo actually blows the Abrams out of the armor is frontal hull armor. SEP V3 had a ton of weight simulators on the hull so who knows about it now, but the 122's the swedes ended with may still arguably be the most all around well armored tanks in existence.
>>56910251Busy staring at Turkey in bloodlust.
>>56910306Just one company 2A6, Elephteri. Pinky swear Constantinople is next.
>>56904416Everyone was saying they would, but the Germans claim nobody actually put in the export request.
>>56899370You shouldn'tHow long until these tanks arrive again
>>56910345>muh requestNot an excuse. Before you ask you have to form a coalition of countries willing to send some tanks in proper number. When it was formed, Germcucks couldn't say no.
>>56899370oops you made the shills angry? Do they even come here for actual weapons or just to shill? I wonder if they are paid, or did they just arrive from reddit and started kvetching?
>>56903512>after ukraie has been conqueredlol
Well, looks like the thread survived the night!Poland: 14 Leo 2 (hinted)Germany: 14 Leo 2a6 (promised)USA: 31 M1 Abrams (promised)UK: 14 Challenger 2 assumed (hinted)Portugal: 4 Leo 2a6 (promised)Canada: 4 Leo 2 (hinted)Spain: X Leo 2 (hinted)Norway: X Leo 2 (hinted)Greece: X Leo 2 (hinted)Netherlands: X Leo 2 (hinted)Temporary total: 81Also, Germany has said its Leos could be ready for delivery by the end of March. That's just two months of preparations.
>>56911703Just in time of the spring offensive.
>>56911718I guess we will finally find out how Leo 2s, Abrams and Challenger 2s deal with rasputitsa.
>>56906666Where did I say that, satan quads?
>>56909408we haven't had increases in military funding for decades
>>56899792This is just the start though. There are 2,000 Leopard 2's throughout Europe and thousands of Abrams in the US, so many that the military told congress to stop buying them but we keep buying them because we need to keep those production lines going in case there is a war and we need to build more of them. And we have good reason to believe that versus Soviet armored vehicles, less is more. Bradleys and M1s stacked hulls in Iraq. Soviet optics are garbage. 50-80 tanks is enough to achieve local armored vehicle superiority in a small area for a breakthrough. West is encouraging a breakthrough in the south. We might see shit kick off again in February.
>>56912341>We might see shit kick off again in February.Not with western armor. Earliest offensive will be in May, imho.
>>56912341The Abrams USA is sending for this job will come from US storages in Europe. They are fully maintained and have all the logistics ready to deploy. Not that Pentagon has told me, but it is the logical choice unless USA specifically want to get rid of some older models in USA so badly that it is worth the extra hassle.
Looks like we have a confirm now on four tanks Leo 2s from Canada.
Well, no point in waiting for Spain's contribution. According to their defense minister 'they have to be repaired first and noone know if any are working.'. Good thing noone have been counting on Spain for doing their part in the defense of NATO!
>>56899526They are very accurate. When NATO did a tank competition a few years back, The Leopard team beat the Abram and Challenger teams in marksmanship hands down.
>>56916339track them down. they are in Saragossa.
>>56899813They even claimed Kherson was pyrrhic for Ukraine because >The town is destroyed and depopulated!
>>56909408Canada is roughly 10 percent the population of the US, so this would be like the US sending 40 MBTs to start (afaik the US is sending 30 Abrams).
>>56916890Anon, there are tank competitions every year and Leopards always win.
>>56910285K2 armor is the most superior armor in the world though.
>>56904416>First it was "nobody asked yet">Then it became "nobody's offered to give any">Then it became "we will if the US does">TwatThat's not what happened and until a few days ago nobody had asked.You fell for shitty meme propaganda.>>56910345>the Germans claim nobody actually put in the export request.They're public so it's not just a claim.>>56911081>Not an excuse. Before you ask you have to form a coalition of countries willing to send some tanks in proper number. When it was formed, Germcucks couldn't say no.Scholz is the which formed it and Germany is literally the only country it couldn't be formed without, not just due to the required permissions but out of logistical concerns.You can't get 12 different Leo models together and ship them around the world without Rheinmetall and KMW involvement and most countries have their own personalized version of the Leo.
>>56917066only in sam sung
>>56917099>That's not what happened and until a few days ago nobody had asked.that's exactly what happened and countries asked for months, stop lying okay? i understand you're ashamed of your country but lying will not change the facts. Pick a better chancellor next time
>>56917818>that's exactly what happened and countries asked for months, stop lying okay? Anon, requests are a matter of public record and get discussed in parliament before they're decided on by a committee.Most of that committee has publicly supported sending tanks for months by the way so actually asking could've propelled this whole process forward months ago. Scholz doesn't make these decisions.>i understand you're ashamed of your country but lying will not change the facts.Kek, then why do you lie?
>>56917818>that's exactly what happened and countries asked for months,All I remember is Poland ehining daily while being extremely careful not to ask in public or make the actual official request necessary.It was all in the subjunctive of could, would and might until another country asked before Poland did and Poland quickly announced it would ask soon.
Pentagon has confirmed the Abrams Ukraine gets will be M1A2 SEP