>remote controlled howitzer>only requires a crew of two>built on a proven M270 chassis>lighter than normal tracked SPHs>better protected than wheeled SPHs>better mobility in mud than wheeled SPHs>top of the line PzH 2000 system>can be transported in A400M>can be uparmored if requiredthis is the ideal SPHyou might not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like
>get into war>cant get parts because germs are spineless faggots
>>55297575So just manufacture your own parts, shouldn't be a problem if you know in advance that they'll cuck out.
>>55297563Now just mass produce it
>>55297575"cant get parts because germs are spineless faggots"sigmund freud theorized that the semi conscious mind expresses repressed desires, which leads me to believe, that you sir are the homosexual
>>55297628>that you sir are the homosexualactually im spinesexual
>>55297598>Just manufacture your own partsBWAHAHAHAHOh God you are serious BWAHAHAHAH
>>55297742If fucking Iran has managed to keep their F-14s alive, then any excuse your country's MIC spews out is just evidence of corruption. I'm of course excluding illiterate third world shitholes.
>>55297563That is one ugly fucking gun. Send the kraut who made it into a shower
>>55297759Iran has kept maybe a squadrons worth of F-14s alive by cannibalizing the other 60-70 aircraft they had in invetory.
>nobody making a counterargument as to why wheeled or more heavily armored tracked SPHs should be superior insteadI consider that an agreement with my observation
>>55298017Ok I'll be the one to state the obvious.>Wheels faster>Wheels more fuel efficient Sometimes wheels are superior and sometimes tracks are. There isn't really anything to be learned here.
>>55297977Ukraine war has proven that a battery of high precision guns is better than an army's worth of dumb artillery.
>>55298219OP doesnt sound like someone who does much learning anyways.
>>55297628>if you hate spiders you are actually a spider
>>55297563>remote controlled howitzerCheck>only requires a crew of twoArcher can be used by a single person if needed>built on a proven M270 chassisBuilt on proven dumper chassis>lighter than normal tracked SPHsSame>better protected than wheeled SPHsBoth have the same STANAG level>better mobility in mud than wheeled SPHsProbably true>top of the line PzH 2000 systemSame>can be transported in A400MSame>can be uparmored if requiredSame
>>55297563expensive piece of shit. mutts won't like this but the truth is that a barrage of fire from 100 antique north korean pieces will outgun this germanic piece of overpriced garbage any day
>>55297563The only real downside to this thing is speed and fuel economy, but I think the other benefits make up for the trade off.
>>55297598>it's just that easy guise! Really!
>>55299244Do you really belive that training hundreds of artillerymen to use old D-20s is cheaper then training what, 2 - 3 guys to use this shit? And thats before we include the cost of all the trucks to tow those 100 howitsers and logistics to run and feed all of that. Cost involves a lot more then just the list price for buying a pice of equipment
>>55299244the Ukraine war is proof to how retarded your post is
>>55299244That baby would shell the supply lines of norks before they managed to carry the shells to all those artillery pieces with shit range and accuracy
>>55299221Archer weighs the same as Donar and isn't trackedthat means its mobility is worseand if the driver has to operate the gun that's a disadvantage too, obviously the driver could theoretically operate the gun of the Donar too, but that would be retarded>>55299257it's the same speed as Archeronly the CAESAR is substantially faster, but that isn't armored, has no autoloader, and can't be remotely controlledand thanks to its tracks Donar is more maneuverable offroad than either Archer or CAESAR, especially during mud or snow
>>55299349>>55299336>>55299310i think this may be the ultimate example of how autistic this board has become. the entire point of artillery is to saturate the enemy with sheer volume of fire, it's a suppressive weapon.it makes no sense to have one of these when for the same price you could have a dozen normal artillery pieces which would do significantly more in the fieldshit like this has literally no reason to exist
>>55299414>i think this may be the ultimate example of how autistic this board has become.projecting pretty hard thereyou're fucking retarded if you think "saturating" the enemy by firing random shells of which 90% don't hit the target is more economical than having precision weapons reliably take out high value targets
>>55299414How are you going to saturate anything when the enemy has more mobile artillery with higher range, higher rate of fire, higher accuracy than yours?
>>55299400The whole tracked vs wheeled arugment is moot anyway, since both have advantages, and disadvantages. For certain types of terrain tracks are far superior and for certain ones wheels are. Its a descisíon that should be made mainly depending on where you intend to operate and in what sort of unit. >it's the same speed as ArcherI can atleast confirm now that you have never traveled at high speed in a tracked vehicle. What will bring down the speed at that point isnt the technical limit of the engine or transmission, its that it will be bumpy as all hell for the crew, hence why you rarely see tanks, SPGs or IFVs travel close to their technical max speeds while wheeled vehicles comfortably does this.
>>55299414>i think this may be the ultimate example of how autistic this board has becomeI have been here for 10+ years and it has allways been this autistic, and you are part of the problem>it makes no sense to have one of these when for the same price you could have a dozen normal artillery pieces which would do significantly more in the fieldIf it made no sense, then why is literally everyone switching over to it. You will supress someone far better if your munitions doesnt land half a kilometer away from them.
>>55297563I like how these are starting to look like naval deck guns mounted on flat bed trucks, it just looks neat.
>>55297563How long until fully autonomous howitzers and mortars trail armored/infantry advances?Seems like one of the easiest things to automate to a large degree, aside for reloading and some human guidance. They can drive from spot A to B if directed. Then recon drones pass back targeting data to them, an appropriately sized munition for the target gets autoselected and a added to a queue, and then the next free artillery drone in range snaps off a shell.I can imagine advances where it is all small drones moving up and picking targets to pound with artillery, while armor and infantry essentially just mop up anything that was missed somehow.
>>55299533it literally is an independent module, it can be mounted on various types of vehicles
>>55299436artillery is not, should not, and never will be a precision weapon. this concept that it should is completely made up by the MIC to justify jamming artillery with expensive, worthless electronic shit.precision fire has always been the job of cruise missiles.>90% of muh shells don't hit the enemygo back to r*ddit moron what part of "suppressive fire" did your nigger brain not comprehend>>55299461because the enemy with more volume of fire can simply afford to evaporate the entire area code where the fire is coming from. have you heard of counter battery fire?>>55299505>thing good because everyone doing itnpcthey're doing it because it enriches the MIC fuckwit
>>55299814>artillery is not, should not, and never will be a precision weapont. World War 1 vet
>>55299814You're retarded. Why suppress an enemy when you can destroy him.
>>55299414>the entire point of artillery is to saturate the enemy with sheer volume of fireThe point of artillery is to hit things from far away. Suppressive fire is nice but if you can just put a shell through the roof of a tank or his tent or something then that's ideal. Enemy in cover will get up, dead guy won't.
>>55299814>because the enemy with more volume of fire can simply afford to evaporate the entire area code where the fire is coming from. have you heard of counter battery fire?These days more and more objectives are centered around cities or built up areas (see Ukraine as a perfect example) and just removing a grid square of your own civilians because you refused to invest in precision artillery is quite fucking dumb if you intend to win any wars. Artillery has allways tried to be as accurate as possible, because again, the supressive effect comes from landing on or near your target, not wasting 10 000 rounds on the forrest a kilometer away. >Everyone does it so it must be bad! Contrarian bullshit is just as bad of an argument as calling me an NPC because the whole world is investing in somthing that doesnt fit your view of what le glorius artillery battle is.
>>55299591So it's just a driver and one guy out back playing with computers and handling shells, making small repairs.Kind of like a sci-fi spaceship or the Millenium Falcon
>>55299814The artillery battle is not won by volume of fire (that didn't even work in WW1) but tactical reconnaissance and intelligence and the capability of getting a fast and accurate firing solution done.
>>55299221>Built on proven dumper chassisAren’t they offering it to Switzerland with some MAN truck instead of this one?
>>55299414Hi Putin, how is Ukraine going
>>55297628and sometimes it's just a cigar>>55298780careful bro I have arachnophobia and want to fuck the spiders from "The Bad Guys" and "James and the Giant Peach". It can happen.
>>55300123Yes, they have a prototype on a MAN chassies too.
>>55299881first of all i'm talking about counter battery fire retard>If it made no sense, then why is literally everyone switching over to it.this is literally the definition of argumentum ad popularum lol it's not contrarian you're just a fucking idiot>>55299843>muh precision artilleryt. amerishitter who is a slave to lockheed martin profit margins>>55299856because cruise missiles are better at that objective almost 100% of the time, artillery is meant to be used in great volume>>55300026that's the founding principle behind this nonsense and i'm saying it's fucking moronic
>>55299873>war touristgo back
>>55300299You are still wrong and the rest of the world is right. And yes, even Russia tries to improve accuracy on its artillery and has developed precision munitions like the Krasnopol. Fact of the matter is, that if you have a target you need to destroy within artillery range, a few precision rounds will do that job faster, cheaper and better then a cruise missile will. This does not mean that cruise missiles are useless, it just means you can use them on the targets that are out of artillery range, aka the way they are supposed to be used.
>>55297563Fuck off, Hans. Once Rußia is buried and properly balkanized it's Your turn https://m.bild.de/politik/ausland/politik-ausland/selenskyj-interview-nach-putin-drohung-er-will-die-ukraine-in-blut-ertraenken-81391902.bildMobile.html?t_ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fhttps://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-germany-leopard-tanks-marder-blunt-criticism/32031613.htmlhttps://mil.in.ua/en/news/bundestag-postpones-vote-on-transfer-of-tanks-and-armored-vehicles-to-ukraine/
>>55300393fuck off to /pol/, chud. This is a weapons board.
>>55299814>have you heard of counter battery fire?
>>55297563They really slap the AGM onto everything.Trannies and gentlemen, may I present:The AGM pickup truck, coming to the new caliphate near you!
>>55300566Make one but with a donkey and a cart pulling that cannon
>>55297563This BTFOs the Korean SPH
>>55299400>that means its mobility is worseTruck is faster on roads and usually requires way less maintenance than tracked chassis.
>>55300637except the korean sph won't run out of fuel, spare parts, and ammo 3 days into a real war
>>55297563germans really should know better than to do the vatnig tier shilling of equipment thats not even produced yet
>>55300698Perfection>Never runs out of fuel>Passes on any terrain>Low noise>Enviromentally friendly
>>55300698I'd use it
>>55297759The Iranian F-14 is what has convinced me that it's simply not possible to "make it yourself."Even the Chinese weren't able to make sufficient quality copies of parts they needed.
>>55297598You're actually dumb
>>55300312I'm a 2016 election tourist actually.
>>55300566>tfw it gets mounted onto a Chinese electric truck off of Alibaba
>>55299591This looks like an RTS unit kek
>>55297575>>55300393Poles will feel really silly when the war is over, they want to punish germany for its alleged wrongdoings in ukraine... and everyone just tells them "fuck off, we're doing good business so play nice". Especially ukraine, which has recently ordered artillery and AA from germany with several years delivery time.
>>55300123Proving they can shift out Archer's chassis for other shit makes it even better honestly
>>55300984>>55300566Given the popularity of the Ford Transit in Europe I'm surprised we haven't seen them converted to technicals in this war.
Am I wrong in thinking that tube artillery in general is borderline obsolescent now that GPS guided rocket artillery is so cheap?
>>55301592You are.The ammo for normal artillery is still massively cheaper and easier to store.Or basically>rocket artilleryfor big fixed targets like ammo dumps, bases, supply points such as railways/railway stations>tube artillerymobile targets, tanks, infantry and so forthBoth can target houses, but that's about itSomething like SMArt has yet to be replicated for MLRS and similar systems, and that's pretty much dedicated to absolutely smushing tanks and other lowlives.
>>55300698the platform that won the spanish civil war
>>55299480>its that it will be bumpy as all hell for the crew There are some simple and really complex ways to mitigate this. A simple one is using rubber tracks, but IIRC there's been successful tests on the CV90 where they had a LIDAR scan the ground in front of the vehicle and had a system where the suspension of each road wheel was adjusted in anticipation of each bump and depression it was about to face. Supposedly reduced fuel consumption a lot and made the ride a lot more comfortable.
>>55301592Rockets take up 5x the space of shells. Rockets had an initial advantage when guidance chips were primitive and expensive, but as time goes on, chips are coming to tube artillery and equalizing the difference.
>>55301592That's just you spending too much time staring at pretty HIMARS-produced fireworks shows and loosing track of the rest. Shells remains a lot cheaper than rockets. Shells remain a lot smaller than rockets. Fire a few to blow up a depot? Price and volume per shot doesn't matter much. But when you're looking to blanket an area to suppress the enemy and soften up not all that well known defences? You're going to be firing a fuckhuge number of shots then, and suddenly shit starts adding up in a hurry. And while rocket artillery can launch one hell of an initial volley it then takes ages to reload to go again, while tube artillery can sustain things.
>>55301592It's not just about costs, it's about mass and volume (i.e logistics). For small payloads there's a fuckton more mass and bulk to transport for each shot if you don't have tubes. You could make a pace for a compromise in some cases though, like extra large mortar rounds with sustainer motors.
>>55300299>Counter-battery fireSorry bro your Artillery has been destroyed by Guided ShellsYou could have destroyed my artillery too but You kept missing>Cruise missilesLiterally retarded and also interceptableWhy waste a multi-million dollar Missile on some Counter battery radar when you can just use Guided Rounds for 10% of the cost?>Le Volume of FireIf you Fire 10k Rounds and only 10% of those actually reasonably shit hit then you have effectively wasted 9k RoundsImagine how much logistic,maintenance and time this requires to Fire 10k Roundsalso Due to the advent of Counter Battery Fire Radars the Idea of simply firing as many Rounds as possible has also become Risky as Each shot increases the Chance of your Artillery being DestroyedNow if only there was such a thing where you could Reduce the amount of Fired Rounds by more than 50% for the Same effectiveness which could significantly reduce the downsides listed above
Important is not some total volume of fire but what you can pull out in a 1 min surge.
>>55299814>ITT, retard still think that "cheap" dumb shells aren't just all-around inferiorOne gun firing half a dozen smart shells achieves more on the battlefield than half a dozen guns firing a hundred dumb shells, and does it at cheaper overall cost.>muh suppressionGuess what, a shell landing on top of your trench does more to supress than twenty shells landing a hundred feet away from it.
>>55300299>cruise missilesNot a tactical-level weapon, you absolute fucktard.
>>55299221>archer ammo capacityfuck all
>>55297628freud was a jew, studying jews, surrounded by jews, projecting jewish sexual neurosis onto everyone else because otherwise he would have to say nasty things about jews
>>55297563i fixed it