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Russians
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>>54149651
They basically administered fentanyl to the entire theatre space.
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no banan was found
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>>54149651
Same thing that has been going wrong with Russia since 1999 - Putin.
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>>54149651
Does it make me a sicko that I would shove my dick in that dead girls mouth in a heartbeat
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>>54149651
Nothing goes wrong when you don't care about collateral damage like Russia. This was a textbook operation.
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>>54149695
I'd respectfully squeeze her boobs a bit, but I think fucking the corpse is going to far.
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>>54149668
Not basically, they LITERALLY did. At least the drug is based on fentanyl anyways
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remifentanil
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>>54149651
nothing went wrong.
170 of 50 confirmed dead
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>>54149726
>Mission Accomplished
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>>54149651
900 hostages, 50 Chechen’s

The fact that Alpha group suffered 0 casualties is amazing considering these are Russians we are talking about. A tier operation for them
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>>54149651
Not enough heavy artillery
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A test of lethality of fentanyl before it's deployment on US soil to destabilize it with riots later, so nothing went wrong, as they proved that lethal stuff is lethal
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>>54149666
FPBP, Satan.
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>>54149666
Satan said it first
/THREAD
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>>54149749
It’s not very hard to go around shooting unconscious people in the head but as the Ukrainian war has shown us, the russians fall apart like a cheap suit when faced with opposition so it was probably smart to gas everyone before storming.
What was really disgusting by the russians was that they didn’t tell the medics what type of drug was used and even keeping them away from the victims.
Over a hundred people died choking on their own vomit and tongues because muh sekkrit gas.
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>>54149749
Kek
>>54149651
Here is the story:
The FSB released the ringleaders of the attack from custody shortly before the attack. There was no good reason for why they would do such a thing. The real reason was that everything was supposed to be one big LARP for Putin to consolidate his power. They promised the attackers that none of them would die during the attack as everyone would be put to sleep peacefully. During attack radio transmissions between attackers and handlers were intercepted. The FSB guys literally told them when to start killing hostages. In the end the Chechens were double crossed and killed to leave no loose ends. Journalists questioning the official narrative were systematically liquidated.
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>>54149919
You can only dream up that shit of a propaganda story if your brain has been fried by western subversive propaganda for at least 20 years.
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>>54149919
Wernt all the apartment bombings literally done by the fsb to give Russia a casus belli to do Checen war number 2. I remember a high ranking FSB agent who defected to England (later got novochokd) saying it was all an FSB op. And they actually trained the Chechen’s that did the Moscow theatre attack
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>>54149651
>It was reported that efforts to treat victims were complicated because the Russian government refused to inform doctors what type of gas had been used. In the records of the official investigation, the agent is referred to as a "gaseous substance". In other cases, it is referred to as an "unidentified chemical substance".
>According to court testimony from Prof. A. Vorobiev, Director of the Russian Academic Bacteriology Center, most, if not all, of the deaths were caused by suffocation when hostages collapsed on chairs with heads falling back or were transported and left lying on their backs by rescue workers; in such a position, tongue prolapse causes blockage of breathing.
>>
With the amount of terrorists + suicide bombers among the hostages, there really is no good ending. The biggest fuckup was in not communicating the narcotics agent used to local hospitals.
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>>54149971
you aren't a real person
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>>54149985
Local police arrested the FSB faggots at the third location after one of the building's residents reported them. They found the explosives and even the detonator at the scene - the specialist later on provided photos and a report on it - but then the call came and the FSB were let go.
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>>54149971
The only ones believing the kreml narrative are vatniks lobotomized be putler propaganda.
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>>54149919
>>54149971
>>54149985

Alexander Litvinenko FSB general who defected to M16 claimed that:

>Support of terrorism worldwide by the GRU and FSB

>FSB trained the terrorists who did the 2005 London bombings

>staging the Russian apartment bombings and other terrorism acts in an effort to bring Vladimir Putin to power

>FSB staged both the Belsen and Moscow attacks to consolidate Putins power by introducing new anti terrorist laws and the silencing of journalists

> Ayman al-Zawahiri, a prominent leader of al-Qaeda, was trained for half a year by the FSB in Dagestan in 1997


Litvinenko claimed that Putin is a paedophile and that the KGB knew about it since Putin's graduation from the Red Banner Institute. Litvinenko asserted that the FSB had possessed video footage which documented sex between Putin and minor boys and that Putin destroyed it while FSB director.[82] Litvinenko also claimed that Anatoly Trofimov and Artyom Borovik knew of the alleged paedophilia
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>>54149971
> According to the results of a 2010 opinion poll, 74% of Russians did not fully trust the official version of events.

> The execution of the hostage-taking operation itself raised questions in many Russians' minds.
> Forty Chechen rebels arrived in Moscow with more than 100kg of explosives, about 100 hand grenades, three heavy bombs, 18 Kalashnikov assault rifles and 20 pistols.
> Journalists, rights activists and general public wondered how they managed to do this, and guessed that rebels bribed policemen at road checkpoints.
>The actions of the authorities during the crisis were not investigated. Nobody was brought to account for the deaths of 119 people in hospital after the liberation operation was completed, or the inability of intelligence services to prevent the attack.
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>>54149971
Daily reminder that Russia and Putin already have done this. Don’t look up ryazan sugar though anon, you’ll get gulaged
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>>54149971
> The gunmen were led by Movsar Barayev, nephew of slain Chechen rebel militia commander Arbi Barayev.
> It was also claimed that two months before the hostage-taking, the Russian GRU military intelligence had arrested Barayev and contained him "until his release had provided leads to the hostage taking at the Dubrovka theatre”.
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>>54149919
Hot damn, schizo thread!
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>>54149651
I have no idea what you are talking about comrade, 171 suspects were neutralized and the Russian security services learned valuable experience which led to 333 suspects being successfully neutralized during the Beslan school siege.
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>>54150100
Question is how many things we don't know. How many things happened after 2001 when he left Russia.
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>russian military
>not a disaster
pick one
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>>54150206
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>>54150332
Ah, yes. Beslan. Where the security forces fired a RPO-A Shmel rocket at the school gym to create a “casus belli” for justifying a frontal assault.
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>>54149749
I remember reading how they sent the head or fingers of a family member to a terroist orginization that was trying to blackmail the Kremlin.
They do not fuck around
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>>54149651
They gave a theatre full of people of different ages, weights, genders, an unknown amount of a drug where the difference in dosage between high, unconscious, and respiratory failure is really small.
And then they failed to tell the hospital what they had used so those still in the process of overdosing didn't get proper treatment
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>>54150243
>>54150420
>butthurt replies

Yeah, expected.
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>>54149985
>Wernt all the apartment bombings literally done by the fsb
it goes deeper: it was done by the fsb double agents working for the putins chechen terrorist gangs
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>>54149651
What makes you think anything went "wrong"?
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>>54149651
What movie were they showing?
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>>54150701
This, if they ran in with mace canisters full of nolaxone it might have saved more people, even then it would have been fucking bloody
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>>54149666
fpbp
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>>54149651
Russians where put in charge of not killing civilians, they simply can't do it.
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>>54149668
Absolutely based.
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>>54149716
It really depends on if she is still warm or not,
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>>54149651
The worst thing about it is the "terrorists" were controlled op larpers who, instead of attacking the Russians when they gasses and broke the siege, were helping the civilians who were passing out.
This was another Putin staged attack to get more political gain.
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>>54149666
Satan approved fpbp.
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>>54149985
I think our favorite doomer Girkin was connected to those bombings
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>>54150420
Cleveland Browns fan by the name of "N" falls over then gets attacked? It's senseless.
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>>54149651
After this and Beslan terrorists in Russia figured out the govt didnt care about hostages
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>>54149971
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>>54150447
Yah, that was in Lebanon. Hezbollah (or it’s predecessor, can’t remember) kidnapped and envoy based out of the Russian embassy in Beirut, they found one of the family members of one of the kidnappers and started sending them body parts of the family member. Envoy was released batter, bruised and in a ruined adidas track suit lmao
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this incident is all you need to know when it comes to the ukrsinian conflict
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Basic first aid would have saved quite a few of the hostages. The Russians just dump the unconscious bodies onto the street and into buses without even bothering to use the recovery position.
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>>54149668
Could they not breathe?
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>>54151078
There is also a chance that it could have led to even more deaths.
Russians have had few FUBAR hostage situations.
I can't remember any such cases from western nations.
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>>54150100
>Litvinenko asserted that the FSB had possessed video footage which documented sex between Putin and minor boys and that Putin destroyed it while FSB director
I find that hard to believe, personally. Not that Putin is a pedo, but that there was evidence leaked like that since that doesn't seem like something that he would allow anyone other than himself to record and never share.
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>>54149666
fpbp
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>>54152046
Kek
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>>54150129

>>liberation operation

they literally didn't move mentally in 20 years, did they
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>>54149651
The hostages got in the way of the 50 terrorists
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>>54149997
>when hostages collapsed on chairs with heads falling back or were transported and left lying on their backs by rescue workers; in such a position, tongue prolapse causes blockage of breathing.


Where I live, they used to literally teach doing pic rel during final classes of elementary school in early 1990s.
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>>54152685
Anon, it's been the same since the invasion of Poland and Winter War
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>>54150100
>>54149919

There is a book written by polish journalist that was correspondent in Russia during 1990s, covering the political developments and Chechen war, that claims that Russian intelligence funded and directed large part of Chechen extremist groups that provoked the outburst of II Chechen War. They propped the bandits and islamists as warlords against Dudaev administration. Funded them through ransoms from kidnappings that were either staged or hepled to conduct with Russian provided intel about the victims and Russian intermediaries that extorted more money from Western companies and governments on behalf of Chechens. Some of the money went to the pockets of Kremlin spooks, the rest was used to purchase arms for their affiliates that were encouraged to rebel against Ichkerian government and invade Dagestan. Really the similar tactics as used by Israel with propping up the Hamas as counterweight for Hesbollah and PLO.
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>>54149913
true true
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>>54149666
fpbp
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>>54152761
I will flay you alive and wear you like a coat.
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>>54152058
Naturally, the Russians did not communicate their intentions openly between the various branches. Dozens of people basically OD'ing and only one or two doses of Narcan was brought that weren't even administered.
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Not enough hostages killed.
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>>54149971
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>>54149666
Fpbp
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>>54149651
To my knowledge they didn't disclosed the chemical components to the doctors thus nobody instructed alpha operators on how to properly treat incapacitated civilians
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>>54149997
>in such a position, tongue prolapse causes blockage of breathing.
This is a myth.
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>>54149651
Ignoring the theories about how the whole thing was orchestrated or preplanned ( i am not saying they are true or false) , and going by the official narrative , this would be extremely shit situation for any AT team.
Now, it has to be said, that the basic plan russians used was reasonably solid - use gas to incapacitate attackers, storm the place while they are dazed and kill them before they can start killing hostages.
The assault went well, but whole thing fell apart at the "terrorists neutralised, then what?" phase.
-russians falied to provide enough medical personel and equipment on place
-failed to inform said personel about the nature of situation (medics were prepared for gunshot wounds,sharpnel, explosion burns, not respiratory problems
-failed to provide medics with information what substance was used
-failed to provide medics with counteragent to administer to victim

It was typical vatniggerian shitshow.
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>>54149651
Not enough rissians died
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>>54149651
>Russia
>What went wrong
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>>54152058
their plan was to make everyone pass out from an opiate high but they wound up overdosing everyone
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>>54155198
>It was typical vatniggerian shitshow.
Somehow this doesn't surprise me then and it doesn't even surprise me now
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>>54152514
KGB and FSB spied on their own all the time. Assuming it's not bullshit it might have been leverage that he could only got rid of when he became director.
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>>54155243
even better, when they brought the doped up hostages outside they refused to tell the first responders what they used, so the doctors could not administer counter medicine
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>>54155245
I remember reading about the siege(in a kids magazine strangely enough) and thought that it was pretty fucked

then i read about Beslan
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>>54149666
fpbp
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>>54149651
i read this one book about a scottish writer that interviewed this one sperg who made it his life obsession to explore all of the Moscow underground, and he told him that some glowniggers came to his house and asked him to show them the tunnels leading up to the theatre.


The dude calls himself The Lord of the Diggers and knights his followers in the moscow metro with a katana
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>>54149651
2004? I remember being in middle school several years before that and Russians retaking a theater. Has this happened a few times?
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>>54156335
2004 was Beslan school siege, 2002 was the moscow theatre. OP is just retarded.
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>>54155502
Gonna need more info on this
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>>54156361
Thanks, that makes sense. I was confused because I remember several big events from those years but I was kinda young.
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>>54155502
source?
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>>54149695
>>54149716
>>54151857

It's okay if she's warm and has relatively little damage. to her visage Otherwise its indefensible degeneracy.
>>
If it wasnt an FSB op how the hell did an armed network of 50 magomedovs not get sniffed out in Moscow of all places? Terrorists usually seem to work in smaller cells
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no hostages, no problem
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>>54149651
Russians bought into their hype and thought that they had come up with a knockout gas - something that will surprise normies to know is still in the realm of science fiction. They just thought they could gas a load of people with carfentanil or sufentanil or whatever and everything would be okay because... because it just is, okay?! Fuck you western scum. The blame lies with the Chechens that we funded and released from detention just days before for no apparent reason.
Once again, Russian overconfidence in their wunderwaffe cost lives.
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>>54150420
Which one of those guys is the top?
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>>54149666
W̴̧̡̧̡̡̡̢̧̢̳͓͓̖̻̭̱͔̝̜̙̰͓͍͓͖̖̘̭̙̰̤̠̭̠̪̦͓̜̖͖͓̺̱͕͔͖̥͔͚̖̼̥͙͈̱̮͙̳̟̱͙̳̝͙͓̦̦͕̱̦̭͓̣͔̝͇͖̖̙̪̣̼̩̼̜̬̫͍͗͂̓̑͆̂͆̿̀̎̈́́͂̎̉̋̆̌̉̈́̄̀̆͌̈́̂͊͂̀̓̏̈́̿̏͑͑̑̀̏͊̂͌̃̈͒͋͆̀̚̕̕͘̚͜͜͜͜͝͝ͅĮ̶̡̨̧̡̡̡̡̨̢̧̙̜̖̙̰̥͓͖͖̭͖̳̫̫͙̣̝͍̮͙͍̦̯̹̺̣̳̤̮̝͚̣̯̜̱̪͎̝̭̳̪̙̹͔̦̥̭̥̞͎͔͕̰͍͈̦̭͇̥̦̻͙̝̰̩̖̝̞͕̠̽͛͌̆͒̍̎́́̈́̌̾̎̇̑͒͆̆̽̈́̇̐̊̚͘͜͜͝͝ͅͅT̴̢̛̛͇̺̝̤̻̳̗̠̤̙̻͖͈̝̠̮̳̝͎͉̎̓́̈́̿̓̀̀̄͆̃͒̾̃́̌̽̌̆̌͐̂̈́̏̍̉̈́̀̑̓̌̄̍͊̉̋̓̇͗̓̈́̈́̐̑̋̈̓̏͑̕͘̕͘͘͠͝Ņ̶̧̛̛̛͖̙̰̪̰̜̤͙̤̜̒̿̐̌͑̄͂̄̀̈́̃̓͆̌̑̾̇̍͑͌̒̓̏̔͑̀̿͌̒̀͛́̂́̋̿̆̒͌͛̾̉̆̀͐̑̓̿̏͆̈́̑͒́̋̉̌͋̌̉͒͑̍͋̏̒͌̓̄̈́͆̕̚͘͝͝͠ͅĘ̸̨̺͔͕͚͉̗̤̞̣̝̼̠̞̫̼̙̭͖̮͙̝͈͖͈̳̳͖͙̻͚̥̥̩̺͓̳̰̮̭̞̯͂̈́̍̌͒̋̇͆̎́̂͌̈́͒̊͛́̾̒̂̈́̾͋͛̒̐̆͒̓̈́̾͋̓̎͐̈́̚̕̚͜͜͜͜͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅȘ̵̨̰͍̠̮͇̳̤̻͓̜̘͙͍̖͔͍̼̝̗͉̤͈̦͛͑̃͜ͅS̸̛͓̜̎́͊̈́͐̈̿̽̇̊͛̋̃̈̔̈́̑̈̉̆̋͗́̑̃̾͌̃̀̈͋̇̏̒͋̉̓́̀̑̏̇͐̐̑̉͆̽̔̉̌͑͌̉̔̿͆͗́̐̂̍͋̇̊͆̉̈́͆̍̂̐̔̑͗̑̾͊̑̀͊́̒͘̕̕͝͠͝͝͠͝͠͝Ë̴̛̛̛̮͉̥͍̘́̄͛̄̆̓̔̀̿̂͑̇͒͂͋̑̀̋͐̄̈͌̌̒̿̃́̈́̆̊̑̐̎̈́͑̐̈́͂̋̿̇̂͆̌͐̃̍͆̈͊̔̈̀̾̽̽͂̑̚̕̕͘͘͘͘̕͠͠͝͝͝ͅD̸̡̡̢̨̡̛̛͇͓͕̠̞̰̺̪͍͈̞̠͕̫̱̝̹̞̩̰̘͉̩̗̤̼͕̘͕͖̦̗̳̻̟͕̥̺̫̪͕̠͈̮̟̭͕̻̯̤͈̰̗̞̦̖̦̦̹̪͕̥̍̓͑̈́́͐͌͛͑̿̈́̂̎̐̔̏̇̌̓̑͐͛̌͘̕̚̕͝͝ͅ
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>>54149668
They were probably all already on fentanyl.
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>>54149651
I'd like to remember everyone that the casualty rate could have been much lower if the hostages actually got medical treatment as they were evacuated. Instead they just dragged everyone out on the street and then the police officers pick-pocketed them as they lay dying. Jesus Christ is it hard to fathom what a shit hole Russia is.
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>>54149666
/thread
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>>54149695
I would do the same if no one was looking, it's a once in a lifetime opportunity and she has no gag reflex. What legal trouble could you get in if caught?
>>54149716
That's very tasteful anon. I wish I was a better man like yourself.
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>>54149695
Kinda but not really, I myself prefer the living because I like it when they scream, I'm the fucked up one
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>>54150420
These guys have probably been gulag'd. Should've worn a mask.
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>>54152046
One of the few based things Russia has ever done. The other that comes to mind is when they were pirate hunting outside of Aden and "released" the pirates after capture to avoid the legal aftermath. Far away from the coast. In a sinking dinghy.
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>>54155502
Jesus, this nigga is a delusional clown who literally still lives with his mom, the stories he tells have gained meme status since the 90s. Pic very much related, that's one of his drawings of himself
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>>54155198
It's a nightmare scenario for sure. Even if a group like FBI HRT had to conduct the operation I would expect a few hostage casualties but the way the Russians fucked it up is just mind-boggling. Imagine if a fuck-up like this happened in a Western country? It would be talked about to this day and heads would roll. In Russia it's just business as usual, talking about it probably gets you in trouble.
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>>54155502
This actually looks like fun.
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>>54149666
>>
Everyone in this thread is missing the point. This wasn't a fucked-up operation, it was a successful operation. That they interfered and sabotaged the work of first responders was by design. They WANTED dead hostages for political reasons. This is how Russia operates.
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>>54155502
TUNNEL SNAKES RULE
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>>54156720
>>54156586
The book is Strange telescopes.
Take everything the dude says with a grain of salt since he's clearly mentally ill or delusional tho.
>>
Nothing. Best outcome possible happened for everyone involved.
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>>54160084
You think American police could handle 40 heavily armed dudes? Lmao
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>>54160384
FBI HRT=/= average American police, ivan
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>>54149919
cool story bro, but thats completely bonkers
There is zero beneficial political aftermath for putin directly caused by this event, there was no need for casus belli, the second chechen war was over for two years now, and high ranking chechen rebels took full responsibility

The wiki states that the theater hostage situation and it's coverage by what is named the last independent Russian broadcasting company NTV lead to NTV's management being replaced in 2003. While this is true the real fall of independent NTV happened in 2001 with Gazprom Media acquiring the control share and scheming to get rid of Evgeny Kiselev and his team well before the hostage situation happened.

On the other hand terrorist acts including hostage-taking ones like Budyonnovsk, or suicide ones were numerous and this particular one doesn't seem to really standout in being suspicious

No, nothing points to 2002 hostage situation being staged, it was just another chechen terrorist act among the other numerous ones
In retrospect, I guess the Chechen wars and terrorist acts really made the modern autocratic Russia as it is today. The populace was to willing to give up the just acquired freedoms which most didn't know how to use for a piece of stability and public safety. And thus we see how similar countries with shared history, same starting point in the 1991, very similar economics and population turned very different historic ways. Russia -- towards "stability" and autocratic system, and Ukraine -- towards active political scene [even turmoil] of the 2000s ultimately leading Ukraine more and more to become a true democracy [a process which I hope will not be hindered by the current war]

PS
Fun fact. Evgeny Kiselev, the renowned independent journalist, moved to Ukraine and continued to work in political news and shows, while Dmitry Kiselev, the notorious modern russian propaganda figure, moved from Ukraine where he was working for about 5 years back to Russia around the same time
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>>54149666
also chechens
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>>54160573
What camo is that?
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>>54160384
Incredible how you seem to have read my post and yet didn't understand any of it. Try again.
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>>54160640
'Smog', Russian bootleg DPM.
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>>54149651
>What went wrong
Not using a Zyklon-B
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>>54160573
>There is zero beneficial political aftermath for putin directly caused by this event,
Because it went south and hundreds died. If no casualties it provides good narrative
>scary Chechens, Big Daddy Government led by Putin comes to the rescue
>how can you live without Putin? Putin is hero!
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>>54154670
it is not, the tongue is the most common cause of upper airway obstruction and laying face up poses this risk
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>>54160573
> cool story bro, but thats completely bonkers
> There is zero beneficial political aftermath for putin directly caused by this event, there was no need for casus belli, the second chechen war was over for two years now, and high ranking chechen rebels took full responsibility

> In retrospect, I guess the Chechen wars and terrorist acts really made the modern autocratic Russia as it is today. The populace was to willing to give up the just acquired freedoms which most didn't know how to use for a piece of stability and public safety.

You are literally pointing out the political benefits yourself? Every such flashy incident rallied the populace around Putin (who was built up as a terrorist hunter before his first election to president «We will pursue them everywhere», he said, using a crude slang expression. «Excuse me for saying so: We’ll catch them in the toilet. We’ll wipe them out in the outhouse.») and served as a justification for moving power from the regions to Moscow and the president. The way Russians are currently using their „kin“ from east Ukraine as well as their own troops as canon fodder just underlines that human lives still don‘t have an intrinsic value in Russia.
>>
>>54149651
i would bet it went as planned - it was perfect opportunity for political points and perfect casus beli for invasion and eradication of Chechens.

my rational3e is that state mandated poisonings/assassinations and "suicides" are pretty common there...
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I'm just gonna copy my post from other thread that died
Why no one in 2002 nord-ost siege and beslan thread has read bare minimum that is on wikipedia?
Things were fucked up.
Maybe things could have been done better.
Maybe things could have gone way worse.
Hostage situations involving platoon of terrorists and hundreds of civilians are rare and I strongly doubt that blood letting can be entirely avoided in such cases.
Unless you bend the knee to terrorists.
>>
>>54160040
If he is happy who am I to judge?
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>>54160778
>You are literally pointing out the political benefits yourself?
>directly caused by this event
Nah, I said the wars and numerous terrorist acts in general lead to the Russia as we know it today. this particular event didn't change much. You have no idea how many terrorist acts we had. In fact it showed that putin failed to pacify the Caucasus with the second chechen war
>served as a justification for moving power from the regions to Moscow and the president
literally didn't happen in 2002
Modern Russian system was pretty centralized around Moscow from the start. Major changes did happen, but immediately after Beslan in 2004, not after the theater. Maybe putin was too slow to act in 2002 [but took note and didn't miss the opportunity in 2004], maybe the timing was not right, maybe he had more pressing concerns, who knows?

some things are not government conspiracies, some things just happen. what >>54149919 implies is similar to stating that Zelensky straight up 5D-chess-orchestrated the war with high-ranking moles in Russian government just so he can cash in on that sweet western aid. Cut the stupid
>>
>>54160982
>casus beli for invasion and eradication of Chechens.
what invasion?
second chechen war ended in 2000
Moscow hostage situation was in 2002
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>>54149651
>terrorists trying to resuscitate hostages dying from russian gas
what a shithole of a "country" lel
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>>54161880
Yes. Please understand we did the best we could. Launching thermobaric rockets at a building filled with hostages and rigged with explosives is standard procedure. You see hostage takers left the windows open and there is no canalisation so gas would not work. So we had to use brute force to liquidate the hostages, uum, hostage takers…

>In 2007, the group Mothers of Beslan released a video they obtained from an anonymous informant. Shot on Sept. 3 and Sept. 4, it shows Russian soldiers inspecting the scorched remains of the gym, still littered with debris, some of it human. (The first of several clips from Sept. 4 is embedded below.) The soldiers mention that the majority of the terrorists’ explosive devices had not been set off. He also points to several holes punched into the side and floor of the gym, noting they appeared to come from an external attack.
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>>54159795
Neither
Believe it or not you don't have to be a fag to hate Russia. People emigrate for good reasons.
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>>54162001
Ok. What really happened in Ryazan?
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>>54162093
I don't know, what really is reading comprehension?
nigga this is a thread about 2002 Moscow theater hostage situation and that what my post was about
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>>54162157
Your thesis is that embarrassingly amateurish glow ops don’t happen in Russia. “50 Mugamedovs can transport 100kg explosives and rifles to and set up base in Moscow just like this. It happens.”
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>>54149651
They literally thought they could pump "sleeping gas" that they only had a passing familiarity with into the theater full of people of different weights and constitutions and nothing would go wrong.
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>>54162261
Imagine the alternative.
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>>54149666
Satan confirms.
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>>54162271
>alternative

Free Chechnya.
>>
>>54149651
>>54160778
>>54162001

> Although the terrorists were heavily armed, as later became known, the bombs had not been activated. This suggested that the terrorists never intended to blow up the building. The FSB was aware that many of the bombs were inoperative because an FSB agent was among the hostages and he provided detailed information to his superiors by cell phone about the number of terrorists and the condition of the bombs.
The Russian authorities, however, never engaged in, or apparently even considered, serious political negotiations with the terrorists. They did not react to the proposal for a partial withdrawal from Chechnya and they agreed to talks between the terrorists and Viktor Kazantsev, a presidential representative, only as a diversionary maneuver. At 5 a.m., on October 26, six hours before negotiations were scheduled to begin the theater was flooded with toxic gas and stormed by FSB and Special Forces units. The Russian authorities later said that the storm began because the terrorists started to execute hostages but Georgy Vasiliev, the producer of the musical and the chief spokesman for the hostages denied this. “I want to say that there were no executions – only threats,” he said.
As gas flooded the theater, the terrorists had time to open fire with automatic weapons on the hostages but did not do so. Although they were overcome by the gas, all of the terrorists were summarily executed by the Russian forces, apparently in order to silence them.
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>>54149651
>>54160778
>>54162001

> According to Mikhail Trepashkin, a former officer in the Federal Security Service (FSB), there began to be reports in May, 2002 from “sources in the criminal world” that Chechens were concentrating in Moscow in numbers that had not been seen in the previous two years. He later added, “At the end of July-August 2002… I received information about a concentration in the city of Moscow of armed Chechen extremists… They were especially concentrated in the Southwest and Central districts of the city of Moscow.” This information, however, apparently did not provoke any reaction from the authorities. The leader of the terrorist band that took over the theater was Movsar Baraev, the nephew of a notorious Chechen kidnapper and murderer who had long appeared to have a privileged relationship with the Russian authorities, including a pass from the Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs that allowed him to travel freely all over Chechnya. In August, Russian military intelligence announced the arrest of the younger Baraev. Two months later he was free to lead the takeover of the theater. Among the suicide bombers in the theater were two women who had earlier been placed under arrest by the federal authorities but now were mysteriously free. It was also reported in the Russian press that eight other women suicide bombers were able to take up residence in a former military city in Moscow on Ilovaiskaya Street not far from the theater. This complex was apparently under the protection of corrupt elements among the Moscow police.
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>>54162196
my thesis is that saying that 2002 moscow theater hostage situation is staged by the fsb is beyond stupid
too many people involved for it to be viable, no immediate gain for the supposed beneficiary, doesn't stand out from other numerous terrorist acts, unlike Ryazan no fishy evidence whatsoever
>“50 Mugamedovs can transport 100kg explosives and rifles to and set up base in Moscow just like this. It happens.”
transporting the amount of hardware used by chechens is totally plausible, yes
hell just a month ago or so a smuggled NLAW from Ukraine detonated in parked car in Moscow suburbs
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>>54149666
I HATE THE ANTICHRIST I HATE THE ANTICHRIST

but yes also Russians
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>>54162428
>greentext without a source that makes bold statements
and your point is you have to believe every claim by some Anon Anonvich Anonoshkin?
I couldn't find any confirmations that Baraev has been caught and released elsewhere.
However the wiki claims that he was announced killed by the FSB twice before the theater incident.
Both time embarrassing the fsb officials by turning out to be alive in some video on a chechen rebel website.

doesn't really add up to the narrative in your greentext
>>
>>54162599
Foreign Policy Research Institute
Now please proceed with discrediting the source.
>>
>>54160401
>>54160692
Lmao Reddit, I’m from Iowa calm down. No police unit in the world can handle this situation let alone the FBIs pull rope investigation squad.
>>
>>54162675
Do you think the FBI would pick-pocket the hostages as they lay choking on their own vomit on a city sidewalk? You are a fucking idiot, man from Iowa Oblast.
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>>54162640
Nah, I really don't know anything about them, the author can be googled to be a pretty credible journalist though
It doesn't mean that he is somehow miraculously always right, especially when there are no independent sources that can back his claims up
Another thing is that he seems to have been writing about the [highly suspicious] Razyan incident a lot, perhaps he wanted to see a pattern where there was none and was too ready to believe anything that would fit with his idea (i.e. the unconfirmed release of terrorists from arrest)
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>>54162768
Btw here is a quote from Mikhail Trepashkin (the former FSB guy from above) who was brought to trial in 2003 subsequently imprisoned (before he could present the results of his investigation into the cases) and briefly released in 2008 when he gave this interview:

> Just a few hours ago I gave a big press conference for the Russian and foreign media, and once again the question was raised about crimes committed by senior Russian officials, and about how Russia under Putin has been transformed into a fascist state. The FSB reaction was immediate. Literally one hour ago, despite the late hour, two FSB officers came to my home and brought me a summons to appear in Nizhny Tagil on September 16th, where they plan to once again send me to the 'zone', despite the fact that a court decision on my release has entered into force. This is the answer to the second part of your question. I have no doubt that, if the FSB once again hides me behind bars, I will just be killed in some prison cell, just as FSB officers have openly and repeatedly threatened to do if I do not shut up and cease to investigate the apartment bombings and the reasons for the seizure of hostages at 'Nord-Ost'.
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>>54163029
That reads fucking dystopian and dire.
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>>54149695
Gentlemen, we have found the transexual janitor.
>>
By the looks of how many generals got "suicided" that year it's obvious putin and his FSB cronies blamed the militairy.
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>>54164073
Russia did not turn into shithole in February this year or in 2014 or 2008. Russia’s “turbulent 90s” did not end because all criminal groups were systematically eradicated. The one that managed to get political power first simply demanded the submission of all others. A firm political hierarchy was established, a sort of modern aristocracy, that endured until today.

One of the witness who spoke out against Navalny in his more recent hearings recorded his conversation with his assigned FSB officer. He was called to an FSB office multiple times. First to brief them about his dealings and history with Mr Navalny, later to rehearse the witness testimony they prepared for him and that he was supposed give in front of the judge in court. Still no-one cares…
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>>54152756
That is a Jiu Jitsu move lol
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>>54162675
HRT absolutely could've handled it, kek

As much as I hate shitting on the FBI, they are generally competent
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>>54155273
They did have like one or two narcan, but not nearly enough for the level that they needed to deal with.

Nothing has changed.
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>>54149666
>>54149651
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>>54149678
kek
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>>54152514
The tapes are held by Mossad, just like the other blackmail tapes for other world leaders.
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>>54163029
that is a known figure, but I couldn't find that interview, and I don't understand how that dude could have known what he is talking about
brah, c'mon don't you think if the attack was staged and planned couldn't putin prepare for the gas so all these civilian casualties that made so much turmoil and disapproval of how officials handled this situation in russian media at the time (and that sabotages putins tough guy that deals with terrorists and brings peace) could have been avoided?
brah cut the stupid
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>>54149666
>>54160616
double Satan confirmed
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>>54152058
all they kneeded was some fresh air
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>>54165541
Life is not a movie or video game. Gas does not fill out an empty space instantly, especially not a vast space like a theatre hall with different levels. People don’t fall asleep instantly breathing in a whiff of gas. Dosages harmless for people with high body mass might be deadly for those with low body mass. The whole idea was stupid from the
get-go and required everyone to just stand around and wait to fall asleep. According to eye-witness accounts, this is what actually happened. The hostage takers were standing there and waiting like good boys to doze off instead of taking action. In the end, people died because the medics were not briefed as mentioned earlier by some people. They expected shrapnel, burns, blood loss and bullet wounds not a gas incident. A lot of people simply died choking on their own vomit, tongues or because their necks bent in an unfortunate way such that the airway was blocked because they lost muscle function. People were blue when the medics entered.
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>>54149666
eternal fpbp
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>>54155273
even if they had, the hostages would have ended up with brain damage due to having their respiration suppressed for several minutes

retarded idea all around
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>>54149666
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>>54159859
This is before it was mixed into every drug.
That's the real reason for Russia's heroin "epidemic". They're building up tolerance for when they bathe the entire world in fentynol gas.
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>>54162444
>just a month ago or so a smuggled NLAW from Ukraine detonated in parked car in Moscow suburbs
i'll take shit that never happened for $500, vatnik.
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>>54162444
>hell just a month ago or so a smuggled NLAW from Ukraine detonated in parked car in Moscow suburbs
Wrong.
>>54169194

https://metro.co.uk/2022/05/17/idiot-steals-rocket-from-battlefield-then-it-exploded-in-his-car-in-russia-16660332/
>The weapon was identified by experts in Ukraine as a Swedish Pansarskott 86 (AT-4)
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>>54150100
>Litvinenko
He was based.
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>>54149695
Bro, I'd lube up it's pussy and bust up in that pussy while licking its tits.
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>>54152685
it always means liberation from this mortal coil
russian humour, you wouldn't get it
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>>54149651
Boobies!!!!!
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>>54149666
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>>54160135
This is the Russian solution to any problem. Just shell it, even if its a school in their own country.
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>>54149666
No wonder their high priest looks like a god damn warlock
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>>54149651
You study it in basic emt classes. Recovery position is a thing. Just not in russia apparently.
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>>54155502
When your premier intelligence agency has to use a literal sewer dwelling schizo as their lead to stop checen terrorists. This can’t be real
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>>54160573
Why are Russians wearing British camo? There’s something really kino about Russian Aesthetic from the early 2000s. Random Soviet stuff all mixed together. Makes me think of Cod 4
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>>54165986
What other option did the Fsb have?. If you read about the theatre it was a nightmare to attack. Long corridors the Chechen’s could have massacred every single hostage before they would have even been able to penetrate the main area.

What would have American or European equivalents operationally done differently. Not talking about the medical (lack of) they received after.
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>>54170382
>What would have American or European equivalents operationally done differently
is this a trick question
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>>54170393
I’m not shilling for the Russians here but what other method of attack did they have?
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>>54149651
Nothing, everything worked perfectly.
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>>54170416
Literally doing nothing would have been the better option. Yeah, it's that bad.
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>>54160135
>Firing RPO-Shmel flamethrower rockets
>At a school

I'm beginning to think Russians don't do delicate military operations well
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>>54160768
Read again friendo.
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>>54170453
Let Islamic terrorists massacre 900 people instead of doing what they did and 130 die.

Lol wut?
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>>54170416
Not poisoning the hostages to death en masse would have been a start
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>>54149678
Yay reddit is here!!
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>>54171138
this is you
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>>54149695
Its not necrophilia if the body is still warm
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>>54171138
Contrarian fagboy/vatnik shill what is it?
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>>54171138
fag vatnik spotted, kys
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>>54166252
you really shouldn't be talking out of your ass, if the agent used in theater worked that way civi casualties would have been much higher
>>54165986
>The hostage takers were standing there and waiting like good boys to doze off instead of taking action
What do you think are the signs of some gas being used the terrorists could notice? screen goes red and the voice in your head yells GONZALES THEY ARE USING SLEEPING GAS! ? greenish fumes like in the movies? also the gas obviously couldn't fill the entire volume of the theater. Most terrorists outside of the stage hall weren't under effects of the gas and new nothing about it when the assault began
absolute retard
also 'the terrorists'. don't be ashamed to use this word. That's who they were.
>>54169238
yeah, my bad, an AT4 not an NLAW, should have checked that
>>54169194
>effectively note that russia is venezuela-tier corrupt (come to think of it russia-tier would suffice) to the point of soldiers smuggling AT launcher [most likely to sell to criminals]
>get called a vatnik
ok
>>54170382
>devoted combat hardened ready-to-die islamists with nothing to loose, hatred towards russians, ready to kill any russian civi or not
there are no good options. the people that shit on the handling of this situation are obviously underage retards. just a quick reminder that a similar (to the point of the idea of pumping gas into the building) but a couple of levels less dangerous picrel situation handled by american branches ended up with 82/92 = 83% civi casualty rate vs app. 25% casualty rate in Moscow. So we can actually make a real-life comparison, no need to speculate and the numbers show that the russians actually handled it better even with all the fails
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>>54149651
choosing Russians citizens as hostages. That's like running up to a farmer holding a chipmunk and pointing and gun at its head and saying ''if you don't give me all your weed, old man, I swear I'll kill this cute furry thing I found in your field''
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>>54150100
I’m all for shitting on Vatniks, but don’t post blatant low-tier lies. Russia does the same bullshit on RT about america being behind several false flag attacks, supporting ISIS, and how the majority of congress is made up of pedophiles. This is no better than the propaganda they put out about us.
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>>54149651
>chain of command is a mess
>don't know what to do
>one guy unironically thinks he is a hero and goes inside the theater by himself, nearly fucking everything up
>Fill the room with tranquilizer gas
>terrorists notice
>one bomb goes off and one dude opens fire before passing out
>Entire room full of passed out people, some already OD'd and dead
>Police enters and gets people out, putting them in busses
>Many of them choke on their fucking tounges on their way to the hospital
>Glory to Russia
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>>54171138
cry me a river monke boy
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>>54160183
WE'RE THE TUNNEL SNAKES!
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>>54174899
>>54160183
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0ximxe4XtU
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>>54149651
Spetsnaz gassed everyone inside with a supposedly untested spooky compound. Then proceeded to lie out victims with breathing troubles outside in positions that could kill them due to said breathing troubles and not even bother to at least give medical personnel on site a heads up that they should be pretty fucking careful with what they just got exposed to. The entire thing was a false flag for the purpose of giving Putin or at least more authoritarian measures more support to combat terrorism that the FSB and GRU (tldr russian glowniggers) either made themselves or gave Chechens the go ahead to do so. It may sound schizo as all hell but Putin spent pretty much the entire late 90’s and 2000’s consolidating his power with shit like this and apartment bombings. Kind of like how 9/11 was used to pass shit like the PATRIOT Act.
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>>54149666
Russian stratagem involving civilians is the unholy confirmed
>>54149695
no, many people think and would do this if they could get away with it.
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>>54164990
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budyonnovsk_hospital_hostage_crisis
>129 civilians were killed and 415 were injured
>At least 11 Russian police officers and 14 soldiers were killed

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kizlyar%E2%80%93Pervomayskoye_hostage_crisis
>93 separatists killed 30 captured
>189 russians killed, 95 wounded, 2 helis, 2 apcs destroyed
>15 Civilians killed and 11 POWs killed, several hundred wounded, 250 homes destroyed
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>>54169737
Beslan is in North Ossetia, Russians want Ossetian land, not Ossetian people.
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>>54174981
I've heard that before, but the truth is Putin was doing that anyway, he didn't need an excuse like they did in the States. The real effect of Dubrovka, Beslan, and the Chechen shitshow in general was that NATO had hard evidence that Russia was a military and industrial basketcase and unable to mount any serious military adventures other than terrorism, sabotage and subterfuge, and it allowed the West time and space to really get their act together and solidify the lessons of Serbia into unquestioned conventional military superiority on every level.
that's why NATO could turn a pissant Ukrainian army into a formidable home defense corps in less than a decade after 2014, and why Monke hasn't so much as rattled a saber at the EU despite all the tough talk.
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>>54149651
didnt send in rainbow six
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>>54149651
they didnt kill the hostages sooner
>>
Has anyone actually watched that musical the theater was performing?
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>>54152046
>>54160002
There is absolutely no evidence Russia ever did that. It's boomer facebook fuddlore.
>>
>>54177867
>he didn’t need an excuse like they did in the states
On the contrary he very much did, remember that Yeltsin had tanks pointed right at him just a few years prior in a full blown coup attempt, not to mention an entire social class of people capitalizing on perestroika and glasnost rising to include some of the oligarchs we know of today immediately after ‘91 French Revolution style. Putin may have been a KGB agent but even then he still had to play ball and get the important people in both government and industry on his side, nevermind the Russian populace, and Chechnya was the perfect scapegoat. Iraq and the Gulf War already proved that Russian military capability was vastly overstated without the rest of the Union or Warsaw Pact carrying their ass, but Putin still needed the tough guy image both to keep the charade up and to appease the Soviet boomer vatniks. NATO wasn’t able to turn what was a borderline 3rd world tier decrepit military into a formidable defensive force by virtue of Putin, it was able to do so because the environment of all NATO countries make it almost impossible for a Putin like figure to come to power at all. And I mean actual similar figure, not some orange clown that spends all day on twatter.
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>>54149666
This
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>>54174981
>Spetsnaz gassed everyone inside with a supposedly untested spooky compound.
It was tested.
There is 90s Russian book about Russian anti-terror group A (Alpha) history . It talks about how often in USSR terrorists asked for bus to transport them to airport get airliner and fly away. So eggheads came up with idea of bus trap. With gas system installed. (book doesn't mentioned type of the gas). Books says testing revealed that it was difficult to pin point proper dosage. Dosage to small don't reliably incapacitate. Dosage that incapacitate reliably is very dangerous to life. So idea "was discarded" said book. Not.
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>>54181269
I'll agree and disagree. the oligarchs used 1991-92 popular sentiment to make their gains and then turned around and fucked the populace in the ass like a Dubai hooker on a Friday.
NATO was absolutely utterly mid at the time, but the US in Bosnia had shown the way, and consolidating the EU military and bringing it up to US levels became a top priority for US and allies.
>>
>>54160401
They sure did a great job at waco
>>
>>54160135
God that was another fucked no win situation. What the fuck are you going to do against several emplaced machine guns and a school full of hostages wired into suicide vests. The rocket was probably overkill though when you had a bunch of BTRs rolling around
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>>54160135
https://www.rbth.com/science-and-tech/330736-3-most-famous-operations-of-alpha
What do you mean? My very reliable source says it was very heroic and the Spetnaz were fightining room to room while covering the children with their body.
Surely you won't call me a liar, right?
>>
>>54186294
>suicide vests
the Beslan terrorists were in absolutely no way suicidal, on a suicide mission, or prepared to kill hostages indiscriminately. Every single one of them expected to to leaved that building and go home alive, if they were successful.
Suicide bombings were invented by Africans, not people.
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>>54149666
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>>54189059
>everyone I don't like is reddit.
everytime
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>>54189183
/k/ is essentially reddit now yes.
>>
>>54189190
>>54189059
kys tourist
>>
>>54189190
You have to go back. Cope, seethe, and gtfo.
>>
Russia unironically lost to fucking Chechnya
What a joke of a country
>>
>>54189190
niggerniggerniggerniggernigger
>>
>>54152756
In college we were taught to do that to drunk people so they didn't choke on their own vomit while blacked out.
>>
>>54155502
Bruh I just looked at this dude's pants... Is he standing knee deep in literal feces?
>>
>>54155502
>>54160040
>>54190015
This is a pretty good article about him. A journalist went sewer spelunking with him and wrote this piece:
https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/fear-me-giant-sewer-rodents-i-am-vadim-lord-underground/
>>
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>>54160778
>We’ll catch them in the toilet. We’ll wipe them out in the outhouse
This is always translated weird. What he said was essentially "We will waste the terrorists wherever we find them. If we find them in the shithouse (crude slang for outhouse or toliet), then we'll waste them in the shithouse!"
>>
>>54171924
westerners pretending to know or care about eastern european conflict are cringe
>>
>>54149651
Nothing, the Russians are merely over achievers who were able to inflict a casualty rate of over 300% to the enemy.
>>
>>54153017
Oh look, a cinema connoisseur
>>
>>54173449
>america being behind several false flag attacks, supporting ISIS, and how the majority of congress is made up of pedophiles
>lies
Where are the lies?
>>
>>54177867
>hasn't so much as rattled a saber at the EU despite all the tough talk.
That's literally what sabre rattling is though.
>>
>>54190661
Right in the quote, retard.
>>
>>54155502
The weakest Spartan
>>
These platoon-sized opfor terrorist attacks don't really have a 'good solution', it's the job of intelligence agencies to ensure that a group large and well trained enough to do something like this never forms without massive infiltration.
>>
>>54190712
Looks like nothing but cold hard facts to me friend. Maybe you need glasses or something?
>>
>>54162261
https://youtu.be/h6Vxwb-gJ1Q

Truth is they didn't give a fuck, I don't remember anyone thinking it was anything else like an accident or a mistake. Basically "we don't negotiate with terrorists - we'll kill our own people first".

You have to see this in the context of the Beslan massacre.
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>>54190749
Just a matter of skill.
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>>54189190
No, that'd be /pol/.
>>
>>54190800
Nah, looks like vague bullshit trying to sell a narrative that's simply not there.
>>
>>54190850
6 terrorists versus 40 in the Moscow theater. I'm not exaggerating when I say "platoon-sized", both this and Belsan had no real good solution other than being stopped by intelligence before they began.
>>
>>54190850
6 terrorists and 26 hostages
Nord-ost had 40 terrorists and 850 hostages
Beslan had 32 terrorist and 1,100 hostages
How are these in any way comparable?
>>
>>54190884
I mean I mention Beslan above. They were shooting children with the BMP who were supposedly human shields (100-110 dead from this alone) and launched three thermobaric munitions (denied, now admitted) together with fire from T-72s at the school that was full of hostages.

I take your point but I do think there might be better answers than that to be honest with you.

What it shows you, whatever people say, is that Russia has exactly one thing it can do and its the same whether there are 200 Russian children in the building or 200 Azov and Ukrainian marines.
>>
>>54189190
Correct, yet most faggots here are still in denial.
>>
>>54190998
I think I need to do more research on beslan because there seems to be few different depictions of events.
Your just happens to be most fucked up one I have read.
Botched job still remains as botched job.
>>
>>54172033
>>54171924
>>54171217
herro plebbit
>>
>>54191167
>when you have to reply, but have nothing good to reply with
>>
>>54191156
To be fair, your platoon point is good here, the terrorists weren't just armed with box cutters or pistols, they had mortar emplacements and I think RPGs. It wasn't a school shooter situation as we'd understand it.
>>
This is actually a perfectly viable strategy as long as you have enough Naloxone to administer to everyone you don't want to kill. Russians being Russians though, they just did it without having a plan to save the civilians.
>>
>>54190582
>implying that eastern europe, with the exception of Russia, mini Russia and wannabe russia, are not considered western

sneed more that no one Cards for the CIS, vatnik
>>
>>54191105
>>>/pol/
>>
>>54173449
>supporting ISIS
>lies
lol
>>
>>54191741
>>>/lgbt/
>>
>>54191156
the UN report is pretty much the most comprehensive and accurate account. It doesn not dissappoint in depeicting exactly how incompetent Russia was at almost every level. Pretty much the only people doing the right thing were the local townsfolk, and they got bushwhacked by the Russian authorities.
>>
>>54192994
Since you're not totally full of shit and butthurt, you will share this report, right?
>>
>>54193100
https://hudoc.echr.coe.int/eng#{"itemid":["001-172660"]}
https://www.rferl.org/a/1073791.html
>this is you
>>
>>54193643
At least I'm not an illiterate butthurt retard.
>>
>>54150965
Napoleon Dynamite
>>
>>54177919
6 was Clark whom was not combat role, you didn't send in Rainbow 6 you sent in Rainbow
>>
>>54149666
Digits don't lie.
>>
>>54152685
you missed a few zeroes there friend.
>>
>>54190998
>denied, now admitted
classic
>>
>>54149695
Everytime I play skyrim I get mods that makes the females sexy just so I can undress dead females. I wish there was a mod that lets you fuck their warm corpse.



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