>The U.S. Navy is restricting the operational capacity of the Independence class USS Omaha (LCS-12) Littoral Combat Ship, or LCS, following the detection of structural damage. At least six ships have been impacted by this issue, which has been determined to be a design defect, although it is unclear if the others are facing similar restrictions.In short...Cracks first reported in 2019.Cracks found on 6 of the 13 Independence class LCS.Cracks both port and starboard of level 1, frames 35, 36 and 45.Cracks Less than 6” across the deck.Cracks above waterline so apparently doesn't endanger ship or crew.Restricted to 15 knots in sea state 4.None operational in sea state 5 or greater.https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/the-navys-independence-class-littoral-combat-ships-are-crackinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beNUTnJjPNI
how does anyone not go insane thinking about the fact you are a slave for 1/3rd of the year in order to pay for retarded shit like this?why even enter society?
>>53559697so did we at least learn anything by building these
>>53560990Yeah. Don't build these.
Why is US military procurement so corrupt?>massive cost overruns>high ranking officers push for expensive projects that turn out to be boondoggles>said officers then get cushy retirement jobs at military contractors, obvious conflict of interestJust pass a law prohibiting them from working at the same company for X years after retirement if they have overseen a procurement project where that company won.
what absolute fucking genius came up with the aluminum hull warship concept anyway? seems everything points to it just not being feasible.
>>53561020What kind of ship can withstand sea state 8?
>>53559697What were they thinking when they built this?
>>53560962Believe it or not, these aren't solely the failures of those who tax you, it's the failures of your fellow man.Uncle Sam is fucking fuming at this, but it really came from some contract mechanical engineer, who will likely lose a shitload if government business and go under.What? You think uncle Sam would be stupid enough to not rig the game such that it's never their fault?
>>53561014>>said officers then get cushy retirement jobs at military contractors, obvious conflict of interestI have experienced literally this at one military contractor I worked at. Not in the USA, however.>Just pass a law prohibiting them from working at the same company for X years after retirement if they have overseen a procurement project where that company won.Fixing corruption by adding a few laws here and there?...
>>53561041Almost all major deep-sea ships can survive sea state 8, or even higher with some preparation (tying shit down, closing and locking all hatches, etc).I would imagine all in-service frigates, cruisers, destroyers, and carriers (including the smaller carriers).
>>53561061>t. TLA employee.
>>53561103what about sea state 16
>>53561014>Just pass a lawlaws rarely apply to these people
>>53559697>None operational in sea state 5 or greater.that doesn't sound too b->>53561020holy shit that's bad. the ship can't withstand 8ft high waves? fucking seriously?
>>53561014>Just pass a law prohibiting them from working at the same company for X years after retirement if they have overseen a procurement project where that company won.Funny thing about that. Who makes laws? Congress. What do a lot of Representatives do after they leave office? Find jobs in the private sector.
>>53561014You fix corruption by making an example of a company by completely gutting it to nothing with a serrated machete for producing an LCS class or 737 MAX tier fuck up. Let them know if they piss money away on stupid shit and do not produce even a promised product, let alone anything worth servicing, that they can kiss MIC shekels goodbye. These companies fuck up so badly because they know the almighty MIC will bail their worthless asses out every time, case in point Boeing and General Motors. >>53561061>uncle sam is fumingThat means nothing when the institutional rot that allowed such a thing to happen anyways has been around for decades by this point. Uncle Sam is fuming because his cheapness and laziness is coming back to bite him in the ass a little bit.
>>53560990yeah. the concept of the LCS is retarded and american ship designers have completely lost the capability of making anything that isn't a sub, an aircraft carrier or a coast guard cutter. why do you think they went to the italians for an actually good frigate design?
>>53561246I'm not holding my breath about the subs. unless I'm inside one.
Why didn’t the navy just order copies of the NSC? Coasties got it right with this one.
>>53561208>Uncle Sam is fuming because his cheapnessOh no.Nope. Uncle Sam has lots of faults. Cheap isn't one of them. Petty, now that's the word.Yet uncle sam's pettiness comes from its constituent elected officials, and by extension its voters.You see? Uncle Sam is never at fault.
>>53561061>What? You think uncle Sam would be stupid enough to not rig the game such that it's never their fault?anon, the entire goal of uncle sam is to siphon money to blackrock and berkshirehathaway.
>>53560962In what alternate universe am I taxed that high and not chilling in comfort? Minor mistakes like LCS are affordable when your armed forces are so vast individual programs have more ships than most navies.
>>53559697thread is already up dipshit
>>53559697structure is mainly still intactminor hiccups are to be expected when a new defence project is realized. This is the norm actually. picrel a substantial structural damage, USS Cole
>>53561323these are the most kino ships I've ever seen. i used to row crew next to coast guard island and they'd always have 2 to 5 of these moored up. such gorgeous ships
>>53559697Having read the article, lmao. Did they not even bother to run basic analysis? How did this even happen? Making sure boats don't stress themselves apart is hardly rocket science. How did they even design the ship if this managed to slip through the cracks? Checking that the structure can withstand loads literally the first thing you do.
>>53559697At this point they should give them all to Ukraine.And let them turn them into a bayraktar craft ship or something
>>53561014Not just military, but also on every other government procurement. Look at nasa for example. SLS is shuttle parts. We've spent close to 50 billion dollars without results. The vehicle itself will cost 4+ billion dollars each. Not including the r/D or operations cost. Just the pure hardware.Meanwhile SpaceX churns out their new spaceship rocket for under 100m each.The reason is congress. They want money to go to their state workers. So they adopt blank check policy. Unmitigated spending on programs. Without accounting for tax payer value. Instead it accounts for state funding numbers.
>>53561323>>53561570The new Heritage-class cutters are pretty neat looking too.
>>53561489>minor hiccups are to be expected when a new defence project is realized. This is the norm actually.>contract awarded 2005It's been 17 goddamn years, Anon. The USN could've gotten more value out of new OHP hulls with modernized equipment.
>>53561323The navy still hasn’t moved past the 90s mentality. Boomers military planners went a little crazy after the Soviet Union fell and the world stopped fitting into their modes. All these dumb ship designs are a result of this lack of concepts for the future of American military strategy in a “unipolar” world. Thankfully now that China has risen to challenge us we can get back on track.
>>53561323>>53561753>Kino cuttersHow do the Coasties do it?
>>53561674>They want money to go to their state workersyeah this is often discussed on the r/space subreddit. Also ongress specifically required the SLS to have solid rocket boosters so the ICBM booster manufacturers could stay in business.
>>53561208737 max was not a fuck up, thirdie pilots are just shit and they use shoddy aftermarket parts
>>53562227Some of those pilots were trained at US flight schools though
>>53562227Thirdie pilots also manage to fly every other aircraft available just fine, or at least to where there aren’t two major crashes in less than a year. Thirdie pilots alone don’t ground an entire fleet of planes across the world anon.
>>53562440Thirdie pilots don't know how to respond to a runaway trim situation, and they forget throttle at take off tooThat's both crashes Maybe the FAA shouldn't require retarded software patches which caused the whole situation in the first place
>>53561142That’s when you have to stack two ships on top of each other. It gets impractical for sea state 32 though.
>>53561847they don't have to carry a lot of weapons. literally all those things need is a couple machineguns and a helipad. helps with giving it a cleaner look.
>>53563481I believe the new cutter (Heritage-class) and the old cutter (NSC/Legend-class) can be fitted with SeaRAM if it was deemed prudent, but they're not installed currently or planned to be installed at the moment.If we were to get into a war with china though we would likely throw SeaRAM on the cutters just to give them some decent anti-ship missile defences.
>>53562227> 737 max was not a fuck upWas working in software programming for an aviation manufacturer at the time. When details around MCAS started coming out that it didn't cross check angle of attack from the primary sensor against the redundant ones or health check the sensor in some other way before activating folks we astounded at the size + stupidity of the fuck up. One of the first rules of solution design being don't introduce single points of failure. Fuck those guys, retard engineers who won't stand up to their management or blow the whistle on obvious safety issues were one of the reasons those folks died.
>>53561871see >>53563502It doesn't have CIWS installed, but it was built to have SeaRAM CIWS put on later if they wanted.
The japs would continue building and fixing this shit and improving.IT is over bros.
>>53559697Biggest issue with the Independence class is that it's about 1000 tons too heavy for its basic hull shape. Biggest issue with the Freedom class is that it's a piece of shit.
>>53562227>737 max was not a fuck upIt was even worse than a fuck up.When you have codes (kept hidden) that activate by itself even when the aircraft don't match the configuration that code was meant for.When the pilot were never told about the existence of that code that require manual control (because it would be costly to train the pilot), then you've basically failed basic design&safety.The affair grew big especially because it revealed Boeing was actively lying to the FAA to keep them from noticing such code would require training.
>>53561804Yeah and the future waits for no man.
>>53565822and we're still building more
>>53565836>The affair grew big especially because it revealed Boeing was actively lying to the FAA to keep them from noticing such code would require training. Yeah, no shit. Boeing lied their asses off that the MAX would not require a do-over of the type rating. If they had been truthful, their shitpile of a plane would've suffocated in the crib, since no airline would've accepted the financial hit of recertifying its pilots on it. The whole sales pitch was that the MAX does not recquire a new type rating compared to the regular 737, which we now know it was utter bullshit.
>>53565966hurt them a bit, but overall could've been worse
>>53561061The real issue is that two contractors were hired and didn't set up any form of standardization of anything, so everything was subpar and poorly suited to doing anything related to the task at hand. These ships were support to be the first line of invasion in China, but can't even manage to leave port. The government is just as clueless managing the Navy, and the Navy is a shit show itself. I don't even know what people were expecting to happen honestly.
another failed usa project)
>>53559697Littorally embarrassing lmao
>>53565964>LCS-1 decommissioned after 12 years>LCS-2 decommissioned after 9 years>LCS-4 decommissioned after 7 years>Still building more of the same classThis can't be normal
>>53566396There were like 3 or more others the navy asked to retire this year but congress told them to fuck off > However, in the final 2022 budget, Congress blocked the Navy's request to retire the ship
Will it be any good?
>>53566522>Admiral's requirements, Congress review and sign off, and Pentagon appropriationsNo
>>53566467The USN saw better survivability during World War 2 lmao>LCS-9 should have been decommissioned after 4 years of serviceIs there a functional reason for this class that I am failing to understand, or is this just a massive grift?
>>53566522Probably FREMM seems solid as fuck and the changes we're making are relatively minor and not too daring or diffiuclt.
>>53559697The LCS and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.
>>53566081The navy needs a new Mahan
>>53561014Because it's a jobs program, the same reason post-70s NASA sucks too. Look up Eisenhower's warning about the military industrial complex.
>>53566590They were designed to be fast small crew ships with a ton of sick cool automation and high tech design that would make it go 55kts with only a couple dozen people to make it all run.Reality turns out it simply doesn't perform as well as it was supposed to even in the best case scenario, it doesn't have much armament, but it's meant to be able to deploy to the pacific or medetarranian or middle east to provide frigate-like support with a small crew, but it just doesn't. The automation didn't work out, it can't go anywhere near as fast as they wanted, hull cracking, transmission issues, etc, etc.Also it was built to be super modular with a mission bay that could be swapped out with different capabilities but they never actually built any of the mission modules so that never happened and they wasted space and time in development on this shit that never happened. Just shit show after shit show all throughout it's design, building, and deployment.It was some admirals' wet dream that just HAD to happen, so it did.Why we're continuing to order more at like ~$400-500M per ship is beyond me, especially when the FREMM is on the horizon at only about $1B per boat but a LOT more capable.
>>53562200The Alabama Senate delegation is mostly responsible for this
>>53565880The future certainly doesn't wait for people who bang their head against walls while the door is two feet away. That's a good summary of the US Navy's procurement process.
>>53559697>create ugly fucking ship >spend billions on design and production>mothball last ship you spent billions designing and producing to put this one into service>oops design's fucked, guess we need another fucking billion to fix itthanks feds
>>53566721another billion? Try billions.Also they're already basically replacing it with the new frigate >>53566522
>>53559697Too bad these things won't even last a decade due to their own poor designs. It would have been luzworthy to see them get sunk by ancient 20th century gunboats who do their jobs better at a fraction of the price.
>>53566736I don't know how anyone could look at the US spending billions on a new class of ship every 5 years and not think the defense budget is inflated.
>>53566906New ship designs replacing all our old Cold War shit=GoodThose ship designs being poorly constructed garbage which are barely seaworthy=Bad
>>53566906But we need new ships because the ones we built 5 years ago are falling apart teehee
>>53567053Speaking of replacing cold war shitWill it be any good?
Another Bush-era blunder.
>>53567106>2 sticks of RAM to control a whole laserits fucked
>>53568363I know you're baiting/meming but the Rolling Airframe Missiles (RAM) are getting replaced by the 600kw lasers when they become fieldable (expected mid 2030s)
>>53566670It's certainly possible to build a ship that does all that but you need to accept the necessary compromises for it The US military won't do that, so you end up with failed programs looking like boondoggle when the reality was the basic design saying "build it anyways" to a contractor
>>53565137There are countless things in planes that have a single point of failureThere are warnings in the cockpit, theres a spinning wheel, and they should know to flip the switch if it's doing weird things A western pilot wouldn't crash in the same situation >>53565836Trim normally moves automatically, they took MINUTES to respond to something they should be trained onTheres a switch to turn it off and a wheel to manually control the trim>>53565966Slight difference in handling but overall the same plane shouldn't require "retraining"The FAA takes no blame for their arbitrary rules which lead to the situation?
>>53561847Because the Coasties have an actual job to do and if their equipment fucks up, people will dieWhen's the last time the navy did anything of value? It's just a gay cruise line that occasionally crashes into merchant ships and surrenders to Iran
>>53569341>A western pilot wouldn't crash in the same situationSome of them were trained at western flight schools, so clearly it's an issue
>>53562227>thirdie pilots are shit>Boeing dindu nuffinYou mean the software they secretly installed without telling pilots that would put the plane into a steep dive automatically if there was a single, notoriously faulty sensor design. And the dive was so steep they had about 2 minutes to troubleshoot or everyone would die. Its sort of like designing a car with software that would swerve you into right suddenly
>>53569341>trim normally moves automaticallyExcept thatA) contrary to their training simulators and the 747, pulling on the yoke didn't disengage the MCAS trim. So intuitively they did not think it was a trim problem B) Boeing fucking DLC'd the AOA indicator which disabled the AOA disagree which would have told the pilots what was going on, except its even worse because pilots now thought the AOA sensors were fine because it wasn't indicating anythingThe times where MCAS was successfully troubleshooted, the pilots were entirely guessing what was going on.
>>53561041The entire Alaskan crab fishing fleet.
>>53561103Seamanship comes into that equation somewhere, and that hasn't been looking good lately
>>53566396>the more we build, the cheaper they are! we're littorally saving money!
>>53570712ur a fagit and also wrong as hell>t. 783 max copilot
>>53561246Politics.No Mediterranean country has ever built a better warship than the USN uses.
>>53561489>minor hiccups are to be expectedBullshit.
>>53560962You're paying for much worse than failed warships.
>>53566590Making seagoing ships, let alone warships, of aluminum is stupid.
>>53561014Cool it with the antisemetism
>>53561839>military plannersThe military shifted from "murder Soviets" to "global expeditionary force" to "bottle up China" in like twenty years. Donnie Rumsfeld did a number on our long-term planning.
>>53568514the Navy's going to keep a fleet in service without replacing it for the next decade? I'll believe it when I see it.
>>53560962Nobody because everyone gets by now (even the grifters you consume) that taxpayers pay for fuck all. It’s all being paid for by Pax America. That is, the ability to print limitless money and sell the debt to others. As long as America always and without fail pay the interest when the term comes up we will ALWAYS be able to print more. This is the true power of the US and has been tested constantly for many decades now.
Also. I hope this thread isn’t yet ANOTHER propaganda attempt to demoralize the US over the initial hulls which have gathered numerous issues which are fixed or managed in newer hulls? Because the US runs transparent naval development programs which carefully track issues which in turn gets reported on by a free press which in turn pressures the Navy, MIC and government to solve those issues? You know, instead of pretending nothing is wrong because only image matters in corrupt hellscapes. Like Russia and China for example.
>>53573063Unfortunately, it isn't. The report states that cracks were reported in 6 out of 13 operational Independence-class ships. That's nearly half of them.
It's really stupid things got that bad but it's also far from the first time (even for the US) that a class of ship turned out to be stinkers. The LCS was the product of the post-Cold War where people were asking what was needed for the 21st century. Poorly envisioned, poorly designed, poorly built. The only upside to it all is it's not like it's the most crucial ship in the navy. So at least the replacement can be done right.
>>53569341(I'm >>53565836)The pilots took minutes because they were never trained to deactivate this NEW specific sub-system they didn't know was added.Modern trim are not just "autopilot ON/OFF", the flight computer always dynamically adapt to parameters to lessen the stress on the aircraft.The faulty MCAS subsystem changed the airplane controls to account for a shift of mass for new engines those planes were not equipped with.To make you understand how crazy it was:>you crashed your computer>HOTLINE "Did you change the BIOS setting that make the computer crash if you don't press the Space bar at launch?">"Why would not pressing the Space bar a launch crash the computer?">HOTLINE "Because that what the latest BIOS do when you don't have the latest processor, thought we never wrote it in the manual to save on money.">The FAA takes no blame for their arbitrary rules which lead to the situation?The FAA was blamed for letting Boeing tell them what to look at and what to ignore, if the rules -made for good reasons- were followed the 2 crashes would have never happened.
>>53573360The thing that's always got me about that ship is a) looks like it's made of concrete, and b) the pumps always seem to be in operation. Don't think I've ever seen a shot of one without it constantly pissing back into the ocean.
>>53566590Yes, it's grift. Congressmen got to get those votes by funneling taxpayer money into make-work.
>>53573360The only serious design failure was the mission module system which didn’t pan out. Engineering problems also surfaced and these have mostly been fixed.And, as it turned out the Navy found plenty of missions for the LCS. It’s mobility plus large working spaces allowed them to be useful at many things which didn’t need a guided missile destroyer for.
>>53573360The main issue is lack of hulls, leading to overwork and crewing issues on the existing ones. There are numerous articles about the generally bad environment in the navy, caused by heightened operational tempo and lack of available ships. Had they gone with a classic design, say, ripped off the La Fayette class or one of its clones, the USN would've had enough cheap patrol frigates to show the flag whenever a Chinese fishing boat tries to ram a Philipino one or whatever.
>>53566713Literally look at the F35 and F22Tons of money to make, problems that were eventually resolved.
>>53569341>there are countless things that are a single point of failureUnless you mean something in a very broad sense - like structural integrity of a plane - there are not single points of failure.>there are warnings in the cockpitThere was an IAS disagree warning, which indicates airspeed disagreement. The AOA disagree warning was in the worst possible way dysfunctional - it only worked with an AOA indicator that was part of an optional package that 80% of planes were not equipped with. But because of Boeing shittery, they did not remove the indicator but left it disabled, WITHOUT TELLING PILOTS. They reasoned, and the FAA agreed, that it was not a crucial safety function, so it didn't need to be reported. Also because of Boeing trying to sneak in MCAS, the cutoff switches would disable stabiliser trim on the yoke if the switches were hit. The Ethiopian airline did this. But they could not move the wheel manually because the airplane was moving too fast and they had to reactivate the switches.
>>53570861Is the wheel spinning next to their leg, not visible in an emergency ?
>>53572956The first DDG(X) won't even get commissioned until about 2030 anon.
>>53576178Again, because of the multiple design problems and Boeing's lack of transparency with the plane, the pilots could not have known what was going on. In the Ethiopian airlines crash the pilots did start the runaway stabiliser procedure, they hit the cut off switch, but the plane had been pulled into such a steep dive and was going so fast the forces on the trim were too great to change by wheel.
>>53575792ET302 left throttle at 90% as they exceeded max air speed Then they turned the auto trim back on which crashed the plane It was in a climb before then and they would have been fine if they pulled back on the throttle
>>53578239>they hit the cut off switch,After 30 seconds of trim movement and a full minute after the AoA issuesThey were climbing while gaining speed the whole situation, they didnt check their air speed at all....
>>53574869>Tons of money to make, problems that were eventually resolved. Except most of the stuff that was supposed to be put into the LCS has already been cancelled, one class has most of its ships being decommissioned because the repairs to fix its design flaw (weak combining gearbox) are too expensive, and half of the other class's existing ships are getting cracks in their hulls. Whereas the problems with the F-22 and F-35 stemmed from various pricing issues and technology not being yet fully ready.
>>53559697Is this the class that has a ship named Giffords? What a cursed name.
>>53559697was this the carbon fibre one?
>>53559697Image is faked by some russian vatnigger. Our ships are all fully operational and a single of these ships could take on the whole russian (or chinese or french) navy effortlessly.
its littorally perfect. but still a first attempt at perfect.>make it 50% bigger >change to a mk45 gun>add another r2d2 (gattling) >and some better engineered monoque hulls.>raise the rear flight deck. and expand over pilot >add an elevator, that goes from top flight deck, into water.>tri side hulls extended and filled with ERA this is now your littoral / frigate / destroyer. in fleets it carrys the air power of a carrier, without the point target vulnerability. in fleet / swarm mode (2x speed of other fleets) its endless layers of over lapping protection.
>>53578499They exceeded the max airspeed during the final dive. Throttle was left beyond 90% for about ten seconds before being turned down, but the shits at Boeing would have you believe they forgot. The reality is they were fucking close to the ground and desperate for altitude when the MCAS kept secretly pitching them down because they were at less than 1000 feet when the issues started. They would have survived if they switched off the MCAS when it let them climb, then operated the wheel. But they had no idea it was a trim problem because the AOA disagree was also fucked by Boeing, so they kept the throttle and successfully climbed for several minutes. By the time they figured out it was the automatic trim they disabled it during a dive when they were going too fast. They decided not to hope they could slow down enough during a dive just a few thousand feet above the ground, so they tried to climb with the MCAS again and switch it off then. Unfortunately the final dive killed everyone.>>53578529Because Boeing (knowingly) DLC'd the AOA disagree sensor but left it there, it initially showed no disagree to the pilots, so they logically thought all the AOA sensors were working properly. They had no idea it was an AOA issue until late into the flight. And they instinctively did not think it was the trim because the yoke has always disabled trim including on the 737. But for Boeing to successfully hide their little money saving scheme, MCAS had to work even if the yoke was being used.
>>53580378They disabled auto trim and mcas at BThey turned it back on at CBetween B and C They are at max air speed and have climbed 5000 ft
>>53559697Wasn't there a thing early this year of a woman testing navy metals was just falsifying results and not doing the tests?Probably unrelated, but something stinks in navy procurement.
>>53572600I mean the FREMM is actually a great and proven design, better than any of the piece of shit LCS'es that wanted to pass as frigates
>>53561323For LCS? I dunno, it actually seems to fit the bill decently enough for the LCS program's scope. An upgraded and upgunned NSC was pitched for FFGX though, but lost to Fincantieri (rightfully so).