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Finland's newest rifle is based on the AR-15...

(More info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sako_M23 )
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>Sako
>piston
hnnnnnnnnnnnnnng one can only hope we import a few
>>
It Will Be the Main Battle rifle
It Will use only nato rounds
Finland Will be a nato country
Finland Will be america's Bitch
and Finns Will be Happy/cucked
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>>51645219
Makes sense. There isn't a competitive AK pattern counterpart for the DMR role. I definitely want one.
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>>51645232
>>51645225
>>51645219
I don't understand the H&K AR hype but sign me the fuck up for a SAKO AR.
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>>51645219
>>51645232
why do euros like pistons so much?
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>>51645262
You don't know anything about this rifle. Why dismiss H&K and enthusiastically endorse this thing you're totally ignorant of?
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>>51645273
They're used to them
>>
Looks nice for an AR.
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>>51645279

S A K O
A
K
O
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>>51645219
>Be ice filled country
>Pick the worst possible rifle for your enviroment

Finland YES!
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>>51645258
>There isn't a competitive AK pattern counterpart for the DMR role.

Yeah there is, actually. The dragonuv SVU says hi.
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>>51645328
It's about being america's newest bitch you see
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>>51645344
>competitive
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>>51645219
Want to bet the fiddly little buttons loaded by tiny springs and fiddly little switch will freeze up midwinter?

A safety with more leverage and a more robust mag catch are essential. And making the dust cover optional. Based on mud tests it's inessential.

>>51645273
They're better at everything but meeting US government contract weight targets.
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>>51645422
we don't have enough info how well it works in the winter since its a newly adopted rifle (training won't start till 2023). but the things i know is that it can fire at a distance of 800 meters with optics and group effective range to 600 meters. it uses 7,62 nato and is based on the AR 15 and that it's supposed to replace the soviet dragonuvs. that all we know now i guess
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>>51645422
>>51645490
Found this
https://maavoimat.fi/en/-/new-rifle-system-to-supplement-infantry-capability
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>>51645490
Hmm, the NGSW rifles can do that and they're just standard infantry rifles.
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>>51645219
It's not bring used as the main assault rifle of the forces. Just a DMR role. Big difference. Did no one read the fucking news or the wikipedia article?
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Russians should be defeated just because their rifles are ugly. AR-15 is the beauty. You don’t want to live in the World where people can’t find the rail for the upper.
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>>51645279
HK is a company that wants you injected, masked and locked down for the rest of your life. Vote with your wallet, never give them any money for anything.
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>>51645368
Depends on the person who is pulling the trigger, and how competent they are.
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>>51645344
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Its just DMR's and sniper rifles. We wont be replacing the RK-62/95 platform any time soon due to how many rifles not to mention rounds for them we have.
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>all these vatnikjavel tears ITT
Mmmmm.... Delicious.
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>>51645344
>ak pattern
>dragunov

Based retard
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>>51645257
As God intended
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>>51645328
>>51645351
>noguns that gets his knowledge from youtube videos
Sad! Many such cases!
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>>51645344
>lame russkie bullpup convention known from video games that no one really uses in real life.
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>>51645490
it'll be fine in winter. They've tested many guns for years and testers include many very experienced people. Its an AR. Unfortunately it wont have chrome anywhere in it not barrel nor carrier or bolt probably because SAKO doesnt know how to do it well, which is a shame and worsens field reliability, but it should be very good still
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>>51645273
Estonia claims they didn't want their soldiers to inhale toxic gasses, but I think it's really because DI is more likely to shit the bed in winter temperatures as we saw from Garand fag's video.
>>51645351
Unironically this. It's about symbolically sucking up to Big Brother USA instead of Big Brother Russia. Kalashnikov Concern has developed current-gen .308 AKs for export, but I think the only notable buyer of them has been India.
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>>51645219
Will they make a 5.56 version too? Looks nice
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>>51645351
>America switches to bullpup battle rifle
No refunds!
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>>51645232
>piston
What makes it special? t. mosin + saber only
>>
imports when
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>>51647207
Literally never lmao. The Finnish military and maybe the Swedish too have contracted SAKO for these rifles. I doubt that civilian models will ever be made for reservists
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Cool. More unobtanium for the Yankee fucks
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>>51646933
These marksman/sniper rifles are part of a 10 million euro deal, but there seems to be an additional 525 million preliminary deal on the table.
Speculation has it that this might be related to a later procurement of service rifles of a similar type, and the big sum and timing (the RK's have now been in service for 60 odd years) would make sense. What they're probably doing, is first field-testing these rifles as specialist weapons numbering in the thousands, and decide on getting hundreds of thousands of similar ones only once they've gained confidence on the general design.
However, I've got the feeling the final rifles will either be 7,62x39 or some new ammo, since even the US is talking about moving away from 5,56.
So probably not.
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>>51647347
>I've got the feeling the final rifles will either be 7,62x39 or some new ammo
Oh, I just wish. 7,62x39 AR-15 in military use would be a sight to see
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>>51645219

Finns will ditch the most reliable platform in cold conditions for a gun that freezes in winter?

welp its over for finbros
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>>51647769
Got to be NATO-compatible™
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>>51646723
I do wonder what the next generation of Finnish infantry rifles will look like. Given that they're aligning themselves closer to NATO they may seek a joint rifle project with Sweden. Perhaps Norway will get in on it too and we can have the true Nordic rifle
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>>51647769
Conscript armies are just adult daycares anyway. It doesn't matter if their rifles actually work.
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>>51647960
regular armies too to a large extent
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>>51647769
Canada's C7 doesn't freeze
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>>51648236
meme countries don't count
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>>51648236
>>51647769
The problem is not the frost but the changing temperature. In Estonia, just like Finland, we can have days when it rains in the morning and snows in the evening and vice versa. It is these days that are most deadly to any known AR platform. Because when its only sub zero temperature, you can at the very least maintain your rifle by not allowing it to get wet, brushing the snow off and not keeping it in your tent at night etc, but when it rains, you cannot stop the water from seeping into the gun and then it freezes over in the evening and you HAVE TO melt it in a tent, there is literally no way to do this in field conditions.
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>>51646927
>Unironically this. It's about symbolically sucking up to Big Brother
Imagine actually believing this. It is not a US made weapon.
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>>51647960
Most armies during the last century were conscript armies and our conscript army fared well enough in our wars. A smaller force could not have made it.
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>>51645273
Short/Long Stroke piston operation is objectively superior to Stoner DI, only due to MIC corruption was the M16 ever adopted. Direct Impingement itself is actually pretty fucking reliable, but Stoner forgot the most critical part of DI, and that's KEEP THE FUCKING HOT DIRTY SHIT AWAY FROM THE FUCKING BOLT.
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>>51645219
it's only for a DMR role, you kids need to learn how to read
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>>51645924
Based retard.
HK was the only firearms manufacturer that tried to undo the Hughes Amendment in the 80s and wctively donated and fought for it.
But you're a retard so clearly you had no way of knowing that.
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>>51648899
history has proven otherwise
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>>51645924
HK was pretty much the only company that fought the import bans and other shit in the 80s. Keep living in your alternative reality though.
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>>51648957
Also as a sort of squad automatic weapon.
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>>51648854
>during the last century
That's the entire problem. Today's 20-year-olds who get conscripted are different from the 20-year-olds from 100 years ago.
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>>51648961
>>51649205
HK is based. The only people who talk shit about them are sour grapes poorfags, i.e. 90% of /k/ users.
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>>51649511
they stopped selling guns to Brazil because a communist politician got ventilated by MP5s there
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>>51649205
>Oh no they fought le import bans 30 years ago
>Don't mind their neglect of the US market for the last 17 years though. They just don't want to get burned again
>No staying based in Germany isn't getting them burned at all, haha
HK fags might as well be anti gun desu
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>>51649530
Yeah because the German government has a giant stick up its ass and gets butthurt whenever German-made guns get used by terrorists/criminals. There was a shitstorm in Germany a few years ago after some Mexican cartels got their hands on G36s after H&K sold some to a Mexican police agency. This is why H&K won't sell guns to Israel and other countries that are heavily compromised by terrorists. They want to protect their reputation as the arms company that supplies counterterrorists. Kalashnikov Concern is desperately trying to salvage their reputation after being the go-to "bad guy gun" for decades, so H&K doesn't want to be in the same situation.
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>>51649613
>their neglect of the US market for the last 17 years
nigger what
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>>51649639
>killing communists
>bad guy
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>>51649661
The German government is full of commies, so of course they would get butthurt about that.
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>>51649658
>Here's some handguns, a rebranded shotgun, and a neutered G36 since the awb sunset
Oh yes, they pay a lot of attention to the US market. It took them how long to ship semi auto Mp5s again?
Also why do they refuse to sell to MP7s to SoTs without a direct contract with a police or government agency?
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>>51649675
Maybe i'll forgive HK then
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>>51649696
>It took them how long to ship semi auto Mp5s again?
>Also why do they refuse to sell to MP7s to SoTs without a direct contract with a police or government agency?
German government export restrictions and USA import restrictions.
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>>51645273
More reliability.

>>51645219
Look, I know the AK VS AR argument is eternal like 9MM VS .40S&W. However, there are some objective facts we can measure.

The AR-15/M-16 has vastly superior weapon layout, controls and ability to be end user maintained and armorer maintained.

AKM's have the barrel and trunnion and almost everything else riveted in place and is really not meant to be disassembled further than field stripping, which can be an argument in its favor, but you are not going to easily replace the barrel.

The AKM is basically a WW2 era weapon with controls optimized for using your shooting hand to reload and charge like a bolt action rifle.

I love the AKM, but the AR15 is easier to use and modify to cater to theater of operations.

HOWEVER, the DI concept while having merit and has had most of its kinks worked out over the years, still isn't as robust as a piston.

I will say this. While the AKM may fade out of use in the next couple centuries...I actually think 7.62X39 and even 5.45X39 will still be used for the next 350 years and honestly, 7.62x39 out of an AR-15 is quite nice.
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>>51649876
Strange how they haven't setup shop over here. Again, hate the US market. They rather get fucked by the German government than branch out.
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>>51650099
>They rather get fucked by the German government than branch out.
A lot of HK's shit is developed using German government grants so they literally don't OWN the patents. If HK wants to "modify" them for cvillian sale that's acceptable with prior German government approval.

It gets spelled out every time but people still shitpost nonsense.
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>>51650099
>they haven't setup shop over here
H&K has a US branch in Georgia you nogunz retard.
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>>51645257
Sweden regularly polls with higher (2-3x) approval of NATO than Finland. Barring something drastic, like Russian annexing more of Ukraine, I'm not seeing it.

But I'm not Finnish.
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>>51649613
You have absolutely no idea what the fuck you are talking about it.
HKs issue is that the German government has preposterously strict export laws regarding small arms and they have been in one legal battle after another with HK since the 70s.
Fuck you are dumb.
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>>51649143
>every other country adopts piston
>but muh DI
Stoner DI and the AR15 are the fucking Apple of the gun world, only retards use them and willingly drop $1000+ at the "newest" AR159001.
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>>51649658
>>51649876
>Anons forgetting HKs largest manufacturing center is IN the USA
HK fags exist in another reality..
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Apparently Finland still issues flak vests from the 90s and helmets from the 40s to their reservists lmao
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>>51650448
I remember our armories being a mess lmao, they probably haven't bothered to move those steel helmets anywhere and issue them for lulz.

I mean you see new ones in that picture too
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>>51650448
Hey man the stahlhelm is cool as fuck I don't care what anybody says
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>>51649907
idk mang, gas piston systems and tight tolerances don't go well together
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>>51650363
Just because they can manufacture some guns here doesn't mean they can manufacture everything here. As >>51650124 said, the German government owns the patents to a lot of their designs. They have to go through the German version of the ATF before they're allowed to export anything.
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>>51650448
I mean at least it's still a bump helmet and looks cool, lmao
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>>51646927
>Unironically this. It's about symbolically sucking up to Big Brother USA instead of Big Brother Russia.
Weirdly within the last 10 years there have been purchases of Pecheneg and Kord machineguns to test their suitability of replacing existing PKM and NSV.
I think they ended up buying more PKM guns from Russia.
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>>51647769
>Finns will ditch the most reliable platform in cold conditions for a gun that freezes in winter?
It's not like the AK can't freeze shut if you shoot it hot and let it cool down. But that can usually be resolved by giving the charging handle a kick.
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>>51650448
Thats a hell of a mix of generations of gear
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>>51648705
My local environment is the same. One day its above freezing and the snow melts, then it rains and overnight it drops to well below freezing. The temperature will just flip back and forth to above and below freezing with varying precipitation. Sometimes its fluffy dry snow, sometimes its heavy wet snow, some times its an ice storm and all hell breaks loose. I like the AK for that reason. I could smack it with a hammer and not have to worry about it to de ice it if needed.
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>>51650149
Where are they headquartered and who are they beholden to? Keep jumping on HK's cock and they might give you a discount on one of their mediocre handguns ;^)
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>>51651428
And that would be one more handgun than the number you own lol
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>>51647884
It would be nice to see a service rifle designed between the northern european countries, but the Finnish Defence Forces have been concentrating their resources on the more expensive stuff like tanks, AA systems, fighter jets etc. I doubt we will see one before the next major war. Then again for a small country like Finland its probably better to keep using whatever rifles we have and spend the money on the advanced stuff.
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>>51652205
The new rifle has been jointly developed by Sweden and Finland.
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>>51652230
Yes, but its still just a DMR/Sniper rifle. You wont be seeing them adopting a new service rifle in a new caliber for your average infantryman until the 2050's. Their money will go towards combat vehicles, radar etc.
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>>51648705
>not keeping it in your tent at night
nigga the russkies are going to steal your rifle
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>>51652709
You do know that during the war you might have to spend +12 hours outside of the tent with your rifle?
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>>51650313
I have not thought of them being Apple but the comparison is only almost correct. In terms of customization and user serviceability the AR is the opposite of a Mac, though then for militaries you'd think there are some other important features that you would want over sheer modularity. For Macs its the opposite way around where you'd think professional circles would prefer something other than a Mac but then its fairly common in software development.
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>>51645258
There’s the PSL and those Zastava DMRs, but slavshit AKs can’t be as accurized as the AR platform
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>>51650448
>the poors are still stuck issuing stahlhelms

You can't tell me those guys didn't do whatever they could to make sure they were the ones getting issued stahlhelms. Evert fucker on this board would do the same.
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>>51649907
>7.62x39 out of an AR-15 is quite nice
Found the retard.
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>>51645219
>gas piston
>based on the AR
Is any select fire rifle not AK-shaped classified as an AR now?
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>>51656304
Anon, tacking on a piston to an AR means the gun is still basically just an AR.
>Is any select fire rifle not AK-shaped classified as an AR now?
Even the ones that aren't are just rip-offs of the AR-18. AR is inevitable. Embrace it.
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I'm bored of ARs
What'll it take to get a complete break from previous designs?
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>>51645219
nobody cares pekka
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>>51647347

5.56 Sako AR has already been tested by FDF. I saw some maybe about year ago. When it comes to caliber, I consider it more likely that the rifle would be in 5.56. Selecting service rifle caliber which is not widely adopted and does not have numerous large-scale manufacturers in numerous countries would be a risk, which FDF would be very unlikely to take. Nobody knows yet if US is actually going to officially adopt any of the new cartridges that they are testing now, while 5.56 is going to remain to be the most common intermediate cartridge for a very long time.

>>51647769
Finnish manufacturing of AK-based service rifles ended about two decades ago and since AR family rifles have became de facto the standard service rifle type in Europe. I doubt good piston AR have any reliability issues, if treated as small arms should be.

The way things are obvious benefits for going with 5.56 AR would include:
- Easy availability of additional rifles from variety of sources if needed.
- Easy availability of components and spare parts from variety of sources.
- Easy availability of mags and ammunition from variety of sources.

AK is not going to have the ergonomics that AR has and it is not a modular rifle design.


>>51647769
If you are referring to Garand thumb's video, you are not supposed to pour water on rifles, then leave into subzero temperatures for hours and try to shoot it. While the video is entertaining, it does not really provide that much scientific fact. There is a whole existing FDF doctrine for how to use guns in cold weather. It starts from use of lubricants that are designed for such conditions and goes to not repeatedly taking the guns in between room temperature indoors and freezing outdoors without checking guns and doing maintenance. Failing those points you will freeze AK as well.

>>51651328

Not only that in general mixing equipment with different camo patterns is a major no no.
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>>51652230
>developed by Sweden and Finland.
Contracted* Development has been handled by Sako. Don't try to push Sweden everywhere
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>>51646920
>SAKO doesnt know how to do it well
Existing RK spare barrels are chrome-lined. The originals were not because they were in a hurry and had to develop a domestic process for it to avoid the shit accuracy of Russian models
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>>51647221
>I doubt that civilian models will ever be made for reservists
The TRG series got a civilian release (including the new M10), and while they haven't released a civilian semi-auto since the M92S, I'm hopeful
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Can i buy it as a reservist and LARP that I'm actually a crack shot worth a DMR?
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>>51650448
The M91 flak-vest is fine.
It has pockets for rifle-grade ballistic plates, making it a decent outer tactical vest for the backseat units. Innawoods, you do want to prioritize protection from the indirect fire anyway, so just having a flak-vest is a big plus.

I've never seen anyone wear a steelpot during the 21st century, but I've also not seen a Musti AT cannon in action either.

>>51656477
>Not only that in general mixing equipment with different camo patterns is a major no no.
No it's not. We used a mixture of M91 and M05 gear in the late 00s, and even more haram combos few years later in refreshment training.
The two camos compliment each other well.

>>51658780
Most likely yes, but prepare for a 5000€ price tag.
You could just build a poor-fag AR10 clone for a fraction of the price.
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>>51650448
This is a retirement party for a general, the helmets are only for nostalgia, same for the cannon. I'm assuming you know all this and only want to bait for (You)'s
>>
It's over
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>>51645219
AK sisters, did we get too cocky? We were good little commies...
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>>51645328
Sorry but that's been DEBOOONKED
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WolBsj6Hxg

He even bent the fucking knee lel
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Sort of hijaking thread on the off chance Finn-bros, or anyone who trains in some miserably cold conditions really, can explain how you deal with your hands.

We don't have exceptionally cold temps here, rarely sub 0F, but we do get a shit load of 40mph+ wind constantly here, and it fucking kills my hands after 10-15 minutes for pistol training in the cold. Someone mentioned wool liners and thicker gloves, but that's not really an option for safe gun handling. Right now I'm just running regular shooting gloves to prevent sticking to cold metal and suffering until I start losing feeling in my finger tips.

Is there a better way for pistol training that doesn't have you stopping every 4-5 mags to try and reheat hands with body heat or hand warmers?
>>
>>51649498
The enlisted 20-year-olds of today are also suffering from the general reduction of population quality that afflicts the modern world.

It is often said that a standing army is a welfare organisation. Something that attracts those on the bottom of society who cannot compete otherwise and who have nothing to lose. Universal conscription on the other hand includes all social strata.
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>>51650448
That is from some reserve officer activity, not from the military. Rest assured, they do not issue 40s helmets in the military and no actual unit in mobilization would be equipped with them either.
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>>51661785
>>
Used to desperately hate HK as broke 20+ YO living with my mom. Now I’ve made a bunch from crypto and moved out and want one bad. Hate poor people more than Jews or niggers
>>
>>51645273
Their untrained conscripts have an easier time cleaning the guns that way.
DI takes a modicum of effort to clean out properly for the ergonomic and accuracy benefits it supplies. Something that your random lackadaisical conscript managed by an equally lazy officer isn't as good at keeping track of.
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>>51647202
It doesn't shit where it eats, also better for supressing
>>51645328
Agays fucking suck
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>>51645344
Retrofitting an old gun to a bullpup configuration never goes well.
And the Dragunov (an already old firearm design that needs modernization) is no different when kludged into a bullpup config.
>>
>>51656477
>>51646906
There have been cold weather tests between rifles of these patterns since before GarandThumb was even born. The AK or AK pattern guns wins those every time from what I've seen.
The heavy reciprocating mass and heavy gassing helps tons with breaking ice. As well as the simplicity of the gas system, like not having any springs in the piston region itself.
>>
How likely is Finland to adopt a different service rifle with the hundreds of thousands of RK 62s and 20k RK 95s in service and another few hundred thousands of Type 56s and east german MPi-KMs in their reserve stockpile?
>>
>>51656328
Either a demand for both more than rifle caliber power + full auto controllability (like the US NGSW). Or a transition to caseless or cased telescoped ammo.
The former would either require an AR to be changed in some way to better handle the recoil or for an entirely new gun to be developed, and the latter simply doesn't work in an AR mechanism.
>>
>>51645219
Make sense, even accuratized AKs have limitations.
There's no way to even pseudo free-float the barrel, and that puts an inherent limitation on what the platform is capable of.
Going with a piston of any sort does, due to the effect on barrel whip, but the short stroke system they're using is less bad than the AK's rigid long stroke mechanism. Even if it still isn't cost effective to get sub-MOA accuracy out of compared to a DI gun.
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>>51645344
>AK pattern
>>
>>51645219
Lol FUCK AKs and the Antifags who think they are still relevant
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Daily reminder that these new SAKO rifles are intended for sniper use, or as "DMRs" as yankees know them. They'll be slowly replacing the countless TK-85 rifles (literally fancy-pants Mosins) and the few Dragunov SVDs. They will NOT be replacing the conscripts' assault-rifles.

>>51662778
They will be replaced, but not for another 10-20 years. If the NATO membership becomes a thing, switching calibers is gonna become even more relevant. It is good to remember that FDF already has some 5.56 and 308 weapons, and the police units all use SBR types in NATO cals.
>>
>>51645257
Fuck off vodkanigger
Finland will never be your bitch ever again
>>
>>51646906
>>noguns that gets his knowledge from youtube videos
What about tests done before you were born?
>>
>>51664252
The world didn't existed before i was born
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>>51645219
It’s just a DMR. Though if the current US rifle project is any indication, what’s the difference?
>>
>>51649530
>ventilated commies
Do they really consider that a bad thing down there?
>>
>>51664295
HK apparently does https://www1.folha.uol.com.br/internacional/en/brazil/2020/09/gunmaker-of-weapon-that-killed-marielle-stops-selling-to-brazil.shtml
>>
>>51647997
I would argue that they are moreso since the only people who make it a career are worthless faggots who cant make it in the real world.
>>
>>51645273
>why do euros like pistons so much?

It lets them use an American rifle without admitting America got it right half a century ago.
>>
>>51649696
>be Anon's HK
>come to America, break from Germany entirely ignoring legal ramifications
>start making mp7
>oh shit we gotta get ammo too
>price per round: $1 because fucking no one else uses that
>price per mp7: $2000 on a special
>everyone just shrugs and buys ARs in 9mm for PCCs anyway

Whatever amount of guns you think they'll ship, its going to be on the gunstore wall and fingerfucked 3,000 times without being sold because people will go "eh AR 9mm pistols are cheaper, but it is cool!"
>>
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winning
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>>51646927
>but I think it's really because DI is more likely to shit the bed in winter temperatures as we saw from Garand fag's video.
But everything except the AK’s were fine in that final test, even the scar was fucked.
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>>51661109
>>
>>51661568
Slightly oversized lined leather gloves and a wool glove as an additional layer underneath. Leather is good against the wind
>>
>>51662845
They aren't replacing anything AK-based though
>>
>>51648961
>>51649511
>>51649205
mandateshitters are retarded but reminder H&K went out of their way to neuter the MR556, which is pretty gay
>>
>>51665336
Finland last evaluated the AR-10 for service in 1958 and it wasn't adopted. Looks like it needed some refinement huh
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>>51667035
SAKO will also be producing 5.56 ars, it’s in the contract
>>
>>51657809
chromed replacement barrels otoh are afaik not made by Sako? not sure. Anyhow, this gun wont have chrome anywhere
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>>51667081
>5.56
Lmao, it's going to be 7.62x39 because 5.56 are inferior in heavily forested areas like Finland
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>>51667153
Read the contract, 5.56 Sako AR has already been tested by FDF. I saw some maybe about year ago.
>>
>>51648899
The original was designed to be used with special ammunition that would help keep the gun clean. It was first marketed as a maintenance free weapon and the first units didn't even ship with a proper cleaning kit. It works with regular ammo too but you need to clean the weapon properly and regularly after shooting with it. DESU this goes for all guns not just the AR-15 design.
>>
>>51648899
>MIC corruption was the M16 ever adopted.
Other way around retard, MIC corruption did everything they could to sabotage the M16
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>>51661109
I like how they managed to break up all the ice into convenient grocery store bag pieces without damaging the gun.
>>
>>51645273
Gee, I wonder ...
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>>51661785
Man, the M91 combat gear is aesthetic as fuck.
>>
>>51667035
Its referring to why they didn't make an AK based DMR rifle or why they didn't adopt something like the Galil Ace.
>>
>>51646906
And I assume you're talking about yourself, because you haven't heard of the countless tests that have been done on these rifles throughout their histories. Instead all you do is spam MUH GARANDTHUMB every time someone mentions ice.
>>
>>51651428
>why dont they set up shop here
>they literally have a factory here
>BUT UNLESS A GERMAN COMPANY COMPLETELY DISBANDS ALL OPERATIONS IN GERMANY AND COMPLETELY MOVES TO AMERICA THEY HATE US
?
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>>51667658
Valmet kind of tried doing that in late 1970's - early 1980's, when they introduced semiauto version of M78/83S rifle in .308. That went to commercial market.

In addition there were some other prototypes such as M83 in .243 Win, which might have had potential.

I doubt any of the particular rifles got even close to FDF's accuracy requirements. I know a Finnish gunsmith, who was trying to build 1 MOA rifle from Valmet Petra (AK-based hunting rilfle manufactured in .30-06 and .308), but I am not sure if he ever succeeded in it.
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>>51669149
I'm sure you could get an individual rifle to 1moa.
But doing that affordably and repeatably with AK style rifles is a fools game. Not even the Soviets tried that one.
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>>51667294
>>51666454
KNEE STATUS = BENT
>>
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>>51669237
>I'm sure you could get an individual rifle to 1moa.

Maybe. But the rifle had not really designed for that - and then there is the matter of how many shots into that accuracy requirement and from which distance.

Photo of Valmet Petra in .308 attached. Earlier model was in .30-06. Both models were intended as hunting rifles.
>>
>>51662778
Didn't they melt a lot of those Type 56s? Pretty likely since the average barrel life left in the RK rifles isn't looking that hot.
>>
feels good to finally join the good guys. Only bad guys use AK-platform.
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>>51656477

Finland is a very cold country, it either snows or rains

This weather is extremely deadly to the AR platform
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>>51669495
based
>>
>>51648705
>not keeping it in your tent at night
Thats really weird. The US Army doesn't let its rifles out of anyone's physical custody unless it's locked in the armory.
I handled cold weather by keeping the rifle in the sleeping bag with me at night and never letting it get wet in any way.
It was on my person at all times.
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>>51663449
>>
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>muh cold
ARs work just fine in fucking Antarctica btw, you just need the right lube
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>>51667043
Portugal and Sudan both absolutely loved the AR-10, so did Italian commandos and Cuba ordered some under Batista. The Castro Brothers both thought they were great and wanted even more, but the State Dept. blocked the sale.
>>
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>>51661568
Pistols are overrated if you are carrying it with the rest of your gear. If you need to actually train or have trouble manipulating shit you need to get a thin pair of gloves (mechanics, something with thinsulate or some European clone of this 3m product) and choppers your hands fit into with those gloves on. Some choppers have trigger fingers but unless you have a modified pistol frame, cz82 with the winterized guard or cut the finger portion off the chopper to expose the thinner glove underneath its just to warm your hands between firing and not firing.
>>
>>51647769
Literally just put a bigger selector switch on it
When shit is frozen leverage is what you need
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>>51661568
One size too large leather welding gloves with wool gloves under them, doubles as winter camo.
Also, pistols are a meme, shoot a rifle instead.
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>>51667869
They technically have 2 if you count Daniel Defense making all the HK416/MR556 rifles. They might make the 417/762 too idk.
>>
>>51645219
With respect, I think the Russian would be also if the gas system was scalable as a basic design up to 30mm autocannon, the buffer tube didn't exist, and was all-steel construction with wood stock.

Seriously AR isn't perfect.
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>>51669482
There were rumors years ago, but according 2nd latest minister of defense Type 56-2 rifles were still mothballed somewhere and no new info have been released since. IMO it would not make much sense destroying considering those rifles, since they were bought factory new and have never been issued, so they are unused with only being inspected and storage grease being replaced early on (the Chink grease slapped in them was not up to standard for some reason).

Another 100,000 ex East German AKM bought around the same time were bought used and have not been issued in large-scale either. As far as known they as also still mothballed for possible use.

There is a Finnish tradition of sort for training conscripts with Finnish-made service rifles. Best guess is that this might be to keep repairs and spare parts availability easy. Only few rare units are issuing foreign AK-type rifles and only in limited scale, hence they are seen very seldom.

>>51669503
Relatively cold (depends quite a bit in which part of the country one is), but not particularly rainy (be it snow, water or something in between).

t. Finn

>>51669525

There is a sentry outside. If you cannot trust your brothers in arms, who do you trust? Storing guns outside tent or dug-out has been Finnish SOP for very long time. Attached photo is from May of 1942. Unless your gun is in the stand, you are to keep it with-in arms reach.
>>
>>51648705
>>51670803
Neverserved? Outside of the barracks your rifle is always with you. Slung across your chest, your back, or within an arms reach. Including going into the tent.
If you leave your rifle outside in the pitch black darkness of a winter night you will never find it again. The rifle comes with you to the tent and stays next to your head as you sleep no matter what.
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>>51667036
>neuter the MR556
what?
>>
>>51661832
those fuckin mustis
>>
>>51673512
MR556 have cucked parts compared to a real 416
worse barrel, etc



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