How would you fix it?
rotate magazine 90 degrees
>>50813583Just polish all the surfaces with 1000 grit or better and nitride coat it. Maybe put a polymer grip and stock on it.
>>508135831) Ergonomic polymer injection molded furniture.2) A short optics rail befitting a red dot sight.3) A small suppressor4) Modify for Glock magazines
>>50813583Fill in the grip area of the stock with a piece of wood, or bolt on a wood pistol grip behind the trigger, and then change the magazine to a two-position feed design with more robust feed lips.Ergos are poor though workable, but easily improved, however it's the magazine's design and durability which is the bad part, otherwise the gun fires, extracts, and ejects very well, it's feeding which isn't always reliable.>>50813587Not the problem.
>>50813587i dunno anon, wouldn't that block the sights?
>>50813646this, give it to german engineers
>>50813646>let's not address the ass ergonomics or the flimsy as fuck magazines (Sten and MP40 magazines being of the same design and featuring the same problems)>let's just make the gun even cheaper while canting the magwell around because of German aspergers
>>50814008Finland did that, the Kp/44 is straight up a clone of the Russian PPS-43, but chambered for 9mm Luger, and using Finnish Kp/31 pattern magazines. Not just the regular double-stack 20rd and 36rd stickmags, but also the 50rd quad-stack magazine, as well as the big 72rd drum magazine.
>>50813585one of the most aesthetic guns of all time
>>50813639Fuck off ya cunt
>>50813583I wouldn't. It was designed to fit a specific purpose, that being a cheap and quickly produced SMG to arm troops in an emergency situation. It doesn't need fixing - it was already doing what it was made for.
>>50813608>Modify for Glock magazinesOne of the key problems was that it’s double stack single feed. Modify for MP5 magazines
i actally kind of like the side feeding magazines. id probably just put a bunch of wood on it for the sovlniggers.
>>50814337This. The Sten gets a bad rep for jamming and unreliability but it was very cheap and easy to make as well as look after, take apart and re-assemble; but even during the war a lot of the problems were mitigated in the later models.>>50814463The mark Vs had wooden grips and stocks, plus a bayonet attachment.
>>50813608>>50814340If you're gonna go past WW2 and just grab whatever nice 21st century shit which you feel would be convenient, why even keep it a Sten? You could co quite a lot better for a 9mm subgun/carbine using modern tech.
>>50815858Sten was 5$ in it's time, even the M3 grease gun was 20$. I was hoping to preserve the extreme economy while helping it compete in a modern context.
>>50816004my old time life ww2 books had the sten at $15 per unit, so not a huge difference.
>>50814008God I wish they sold these with a long barrel and working stock
>>50813585I would say weld on a spot of pic rail but not sure a dot sight would be needed on a slamfire bullet hose
>>50814337I disagree, the magazines were too easy to damage, and the ergonomics would be so incredibly easy to improve for so little cost and effort,You don't have to do any fancy shit with a folding stock or anything, you could plain just have add on a plate with two rounded wood panels on it, and that would be better than the Mk.I*, Mk. II, or Mk.III>>50814482The Mk.V Sten adds a foregrip and a full wooden stock, when really that isn't even necessary. They really were way better off ditching it for the new Patchett design after the war.I think moving the trigger forward, and then just having a flat bar which attaches two rounded wood panels to it to form a pistolgrip, would be more than enough to make the ergos bearable. Doesn't have to be fancy, just sand the edges of the wood pieces so the grip doesn't make a sharp square.
>>50816242>3.8lb vs 7.1
>>50813583make it cheaper somehow for the lols
>>50814055One heck of a shotgun.
Does anyone make a 9mm AR upper that has side glock mags or any side mag ar upper at all?Would be cool to have no mag well at all on the lower and it's on the upper instead.
>>50816878Side mag upper were determined by the ATF to be receivers (despite not meeting the legal definition) and that killed the market. You can buy .50 BMG side loading mag fed upper though, but since they need a transfer you may as well just buy a regular gun.https://www.mccutchenfirearms.com/MF-50M-50-BMG-Mag-fed-Bolt-action-Upper-p/mf-50m.htm
>>50816922>Why is an FFL required for your upper receivers? >We received a ruling in February of 2019 from the BATFE stating that they had reviewed our upper receiver and determined it to be a firearm on it's own, comparing it to a Remington 700 because it's bolt action. We know that this does not make any sense but were unsuccessful in fighting it. Therefore all uppers are classified as firearms and must be transferred through an FFL just like the lower's and complete rifles. https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/07/30/breaking-news-atf-is-classifying-50-cal-bolt-action-ar-uppers-as-firearm/
>>50816922>>50816941holy fuck that is gay but thank you for the info
>>50816878I don't know of any, but there's obviously no reason it wouldn't work, you could also use one of those single-shot lowers without a magwell for a cleaner look and weight reduction. I'd want it to use some sort of stickmag with a hold-open function.>>50816922Naturally this is very gay, but I think that if enough people are interested in the idea of a side magazine upper for a 9mm carbine, it could work anyway.Maybe devise some sort of 80% upper, lol
>>50816878the ar-57 uses p90 mags and dumps the cases out the magwell
>>50813583What’s the issue?
>>50817254Ok so is that upper legally a gun like the other guy was saying?Is that upper an FFL item?
>>50819143Yes its technically an ffl item, when they first came to market you get one without needing an ffl but that changed pretty quick
>>50819181>Thompson is too expensive and the Americans are hogging them anyway>so lets try to get more anyway
>>50813998Or maybe I dunno, make it so the magazine doesn’t make the gun uncomfortable to hold for a long duration of time, or perhaps to make it easier to fire from windows?
>>50813646I wonder if the germans constantly fix british designs just to clown on them or they really think theyre good but poorly executed designs
>>50813998It's a cheap piece of shit, you can't fix the ergonomics or magazines without massively raising the production cost. MP3008 made it more ergonomic, and cheaper. Both things you want in a war.
>>50813583make one that actually works reliably when you give it to us to assassinate heydrich you fucking stupid brits
>>50820851Why didn't you have your own sub gun then? Oh yeah that's right
>>50816059This is the first I'm hearing of this, but it's believable and disappointing. I took a look and found an $11 price.In 2021, the 11 becomes $185, and the 15 becomes $252.I feel like it should be possible to beat those prices with a modern design.
>>50816004>>50816059Max Hastings puts the cost of a single sten at 15/- (15 shillings or 75p in decimal currency), the exchange rate during the war was pretty consistent at £1 = $4, so the sten cost about $3 to make by his estimates.
>>50813583Put themag port on other side for us left-handers.
>>50813583Usually hitting it a couple of times with a hammer would fix it
>>50813583Well the atf cuts the tube up real bad so just replace the tube. getting the old tube out is a bitch though and most the time the glowniggers cut the front trunnion so you have to replace that too. basically all you need iscut up sten : $200barrel and trunnion : $110dremel : $100shitty welder : $160magazines : $25 each9mm : $too fucking muchthen you have an undocumented mg : priceless.
>>50814033>>50814044>>50814047What is that?
>>50819181I'm sorry there's a lot of salty ones in Africa that you didn't want to repair.
>>50822200Can't argue with those digits.
>>50813998the whole point of the gun was to be as cheap as possible while still functioning most of the time
>>50814082>when the janky steel pipe gun the Brits send ya have a weird side mounted magazine>I bet ya we can do better m8
>How to fix sten>none posted lightning made in the same war
>>50817254What is the context of this photo?
>>50813585i wish they put a pistol grip mag instead it might even still be in production
>>50813583chamber it in 20mm
>>50819181heavier, vastly more expensive per unit and fires a worse round
>>50813583Why fix something that is already perfect ?
>>50813583>Make the barrel only attached at one or two points inside the receiver so that the breech block can telescope around it.>Move the magazine and well to the bottom of the weapon and house it in a grip.>Move the fire control group forward so the magazine well/grip is the only protruding feature.>Add a large baffle can silencer on the front. The can will be fixed to the frame, but the baffles will be removable for cleaning by unscrewing the front cap. The can should be wrapped in leather or cloth from the factory for grip with a few attachment points on the can so it doesn't slip around.>Make the stock a side folder with a belt clip so it can be folded for transport and clipped to a belt or chest rig in the muzzle down position.So basically what I'm saying is it should have been a Ingram M-10.
>>50826752There's more reasons than that for the Owen being better than the Sten, the action and magazine is actually pretty different.
Every country had it's own cheap pipegun but I think the US made the best one. That low rate of fire seems very user friendly.
>>50826752The Owen is proof that the Australians are both a damnable race and the only Anglos that aren't totally subhuman.
>>50825477Shitty US funded Venezuela half-assed coup attempt.
>>50827609>the action is different They're both direct blowback, the action is literally the same. >No no no you see on forgotten weapons I learned that there is a wall inside the tubeStill direct blowback loser
>>50827636The M3A1 is kind brilliant for how industrialized it is.>receiver isn't a tube and some folded sheets, it's actually two halves stamped out of a single sheet and then welded together to form the body of the gun>skips the crank handle, just put a finger cutout on the bolt, it'll do the same thing without breaking and for less money>could be manufactured so fucking fast and for so little money it was absolutely ridiculous>resulting gun is actually pretty good, feeds and cycles well, easy to shoot
>>508162429mm is effective easily up to 100m even if it goes in arch
>>50825808It was called the oerlikon
>>50828052Grease gun is one ugly bastard
>>50813585Going on 4 months waiting for Indianapolis ordnance to get their barrels and bushings in stock.
Extended front hand guard, front sling mount, drill and tap for an RDS.
>>50828052too bad we never made 30 carbine grease fun with 40rd mags :(
>>50822226Dunno, theres absolutely no information to go on from the filename or the embedded text in the photos so don't bother googling any of it.
>>50813583just move the magazine to under. and improve the stock.other than that. gun is fine
>>50823156The owen was made without reference to the sten by a kid in his garage.
>>50822226It was a custom smg made by a suppressor manufacturer to test suppressors. There is only one.
>>50813583make magazine into a drum that loops upwards, with a peep sight in the center
>>50828759.30 Carbine would have sucked from a barrel that short, and you'd have to move away from blowback to have anything that's reasonable to handle, so you kind of come back to something like the M1 Carbine anyway (not that there isn't room for some improvements on the M1, like a better magazine).
>>50828052The pinnacle of open bolt smg design. Its annoying when people attribute mythical qualities to all the other open bolt smgs when they all basically boil down to the same barrel length, caliber, mag capacity, with similar fire rates. Please explain how your autistic sten mkV or mp40 is so much radically better than this grease gun
>>50831473I'm under the impression the Carl Gustaf m/45 is the pinnacle of open bolt SMGs.I think the part that made it special was that the bolt doesn't bottom out on recoil. Navy Seals in Vietnam specifically wanted this gun, and when the Dutch wouldn't sell it anymore, Smith and Wesson was asked to make a substitute, and they made the S&W M76.Navy SEALs during Vietnam could have easily gotten M3 grease guns, they wanted the Carl Gustaf. Other users have praised it's controlability.It cost $67 in the late 70's, so about $31 in 1942 or $528 today.
>>50813583bore axis raisedfront grippistol grip
>>50831520yeah the Swedish K is a VERY fun gun to shoot, also takes drums which is a good time. the Steyr Solothurn S100/MP34 is also a really really fun one to shoot but a bit more rare of course, and super controllable. MP40 is good as well. My favorite still comes down to the MP5, but I wouldnt complain about the Uzi either.
>>50831473There is definitely differences in the handling of open bolt guns. Some of them are largely similar, and you likely couldn't argue that the Sten Mk. V is signficantly better than the M3. But that doesn't mean that there aren't differences worth discussing in the entire class of weapons.Rate of fire, stock design, weight, weapon reliability, magazine reliability (probably the number 1 difference tbph), bolt weight and travel, compensators etc. can vary significantly are drastically change the shooting experience.
>>50831585Fuck I'm tired I basically said the same thing three times.
>>50828844wasn't it also considered an excellent smg?
>>50831585Does it change it enough to make the gun transcend its base features though? Are you going to be using any of them at over 50m in full auto for accurate fire, or 100m for burst accurate fire? You're just suppressing at that point, which any of them do fine, and below that range none of them have any huge differences that would make as much as an impact as a change of calibre - there's more meaningful difference between a Thompson and a Lanchester than there is between a Lanchester and a grease.
>>50831670Fuck knows why I said Lanchester - *sterling
>>50831473I don't agree. In terms of...>sheet steel body>open-bolt>straight blowback... then I would argue that Uzi is the absolute pinnacle. The balance of the gun and even distribution of weight of the bolt in the Uzi makes it easier to shoot accurately than other open-bolt subguns of its kind, the barrel is nicely long yet tucked away inside of the gun so that you can get some nice velocity out of 9mm Luger without having the gun be way long, and it uses a good double-stack, two-position feed magazine which is robust and dependable (well, as long as some conscript doesn't use it as a bottle opener). It's also appropriately easy to strip and clean and maintain.The only thing which would have made the Uzi better would be if it had some kind of bolt hold-open like the Thompson, so you didn't need to rack the bolt after swapping mags, and if the magazine release was a pistol style thumb button, to speed up reloads even more.The M3A1 is good, really good, especially on the point of economics and production speed, and still it's a good gun after being so thoroughly economized in its design, but the magazine could still be better (it's still basically a Sten gun magazine, only .45 caliber and made more robust and consistent), and the gun would probably be easier to use still if it had a better forward gripping surface. The Swedish m/45 Carl Gustaf is one I would say is also better than the M3A1 just in terms of handling and use, but also because of a very good magazine, though of course it's not AS cheap and fast to produce.The Russian PPS-43 I want to say is on the Greasegun's level, it uses less refined technology, but it's still a really smart and clever design which made great use out of available industry at the time, and is very usable and dependable. Not as fast to make, but it was easy to set up production of it in all kinds of non-firearms factories.
>>50831520>the dutch>$31 before it existed
>>50831670Have you had a chance to shoot many SMGs in their original full auto configs? There is a significant difference between them, even in their short range role, auto and semi, full cyclic and bursts. And no, caliber isn't the be all and end all, though it is obviously significant. There is more difference between a KP31 and a STEN than there is between the .45ACP and 9mm M3
>>50831473>sten mkV or mp40 The M3A1 is a lot better than those because it's cheap while being consistently reliable. >>50831520>Dutch>1942It was designed in Sweden in 1945.>the bolt doesn't bottom out on recoilI've never tried it with the m/39b ammo it was designed for, but I wonder if it would there, considering it's much higher pressure.
>>50831570>also takes drums The earlier ones and the licensed Egyptian ones do, because you can take out that wire spring to take off the magwell letting you slide in a drum or casket magazine. They removed that later, for whatever reason.
>>50831520The Walther MP is technically in the running, and I'm sure there are others. But you're not wrong.
>>50813587I got you senpai.
>>50813583>Fix>Sten/SterlingMost WW2 smg's were designed to be cheap and easy to produce in large numbers. You don't "fix" them, you replace them if you even need to. SMGs are largely phased out for a reason.
>>50813583The only reason Sten has any kind of clout still in the DIY community (or wannabe DIY, should I say) and generally has any provenance beyond WW2, is that they were relatively cheap do buy before 1986, and their magazines were cheap.Sten is the worst fucking 2nd Generation submachine-gun, bar none. Yes, Reising is better. Sten isn't just cheap - it's fucking terrible. There is no fixing it. A hopeless, disgusting abortion resulting from English desperation and complete incompetence with automatic small arms (which continues to this day; Bren is Czech and Vickers isn't a small arm).Name a feature of a Sten and I will show you how it was done better AND cheaper within 1 year from the first Sten being manufactured. The only use for a Sten today is if it's a registered transferable machine gun. You take the receiver, you pull every single part out of it (including the barrel), you take an angle grinder to all that shit, and you build an entirely new, good SMG around the receiver. That's it.
>>50813583Okay, let's see if I caught them all:- the fucking magazine- literally, without exaggeration the worst stock on any firearm in the entirety of recorded history (this of course includes all the stock-less weapons)- absolutely worthless, yet complex for its class select-fire FCG which gives a negative advantage to the shooter, increasing the non-existence of reliability- ergonomics and balance of a dead skunk, frozen over in winter and now thawing- bolt OD doesn't fit the fucking tube ID- the side-mounted, double-stack, single-nigger magazine jams the "weapon" and simultaneously catches on the corner you're trying to run, and now you're lying dead on the streets of Caen- lack of any feed ramp, a part costing 0.05 Zimbabwean dollar to produce on industrial scale, means that reliability of the "weapon" depends entirely on it's magazine's cocksucking lips which are 100% guaranteed to be bent at least somewhat, preventing the perfect 11 degree feed angle required for reliable feeding of the weapon- worthless castrated barrel jacket does nothing and is a removable part and ads expense for no reason just to dab on wartime English economy- terrible sights- all-around terrible fit and finish produced by completely untrained and unskilled cottage female labor- despite being the worst weapon of WW2 (including Volkssturm bolt-actions), relatively expensive for its class manufacture, because its production is greatly decentralized and low-tech, relying on terribly equipped small shops and factories, which of course cannot maintain speed, quality, or even consistency- the cock-sucking magazine
>>50813583Chuck it in the garbage and get a real gun.
Carry a tank or two of CO2 on your back
>>50835850CO2 has a maximum speed of sound at room temperature around 820fps, an efficient use of gas would see you at about 650 fps, and pistons as show in pic tend to be limited to around 10 fps max.
>>50831640It was. Aussies didn't retire it until the 60s iirc.
>>50828844Not entirely, he made a "rough draft," and two actual engineers (who discovered it) developed it further and made it into the gun it was.
>>50835850Volume of inlet \ volume of chamber gives you gas flow bottleneck ratioCapped flow speed of CO2 being 800ish fpsNow divide that velocity of inlet speed by the volume comparison from beforeYou're looking max 150fps
>>50836981The idea is to attach a pneumatic cylinder behind the bolt. In my mind the bolt would stop short of hitting the rear of the cylinder. Then air would force the bolt forward, repeating the cycle. I've thought about this about the ak gas piston using air. Another idea is to use this in a helicopter, using pressurized air from the engines to work a machine gun. Example for recoil mitigation, cooling, cycling, etc. This has been on my mind for the past few days and would apricate input.