>UK MoD and GDUK give update on ‘troubled' Ajax programme>“I describe Ajax as a troubled programme. I wish it wasn't, but it is,” Minister for Defence Procurement Jeremy Quin said. “It requires a lot of work from ourselves and our industry partners to get ourselves back on track. We can't be 100% certain that can be achieved.”https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/uk-mod-and-gduk-give-update-on-troubled-ajax-programme_19116Is this the end for Ajax? At this point they should just boy some Lynx.
>>50015026>At this point they should just boy some Lynx.fuck off klaus, its not happening.
>>50015071Morelikely they will try to fill the gap with more Boxers and accept a lack of capabilities.
>>50015026>Spent 750 million GBP on what amounts to an IFV but arbitrarily worse>STILL doesn't function properly despite being used by 2 other countriesHow do they do it bros
>>50015335It's not even some from the ground project but just a variant of a Spanish IFV which is in service for 20 years.
>>50015026>At this point they should just boy some LynxGenuinely why? Worse armour, weapons and sensors. Ajax will get fixed, they are just fighting over who pays for it - GD or the Mod.
>Not buying Lynx
>>50016005Ajax better than Lynx… funny Nigel
>>50016239You've not made a single point. Ajax has superior armament, armour and sensors. There's literally nothing you can say that changes this.
>>50016270>sensorsIt has a thermal sight for the gunner and commander. There is nothing special about it, every modern IFV/MBT in the west has had this arrangement for decades at this point.
>>50016423It has far more than that. It has 360' thermal, daylight and ultraviolet EO sensors monitored by AI. It has an acoustic gunfire sensor to pinpoint any tung from small arm to artillery. It has a dismountable LIDAR sensor to observe enemy armour and queue targets. And unlike Lynx it has the ability to pass direct targeting information to other allied platforms like F35, Apache and HIMARS to allow them to engage targets using allied weapons.
>>50016474>>50016005Should also add that Lynx is yet another platform based on the obsolete marder Hull. Its interior space is completely inadequate for modern troops. You could spend an hour inside with a small amount of gear and no heavy weapons.
>>50015026Why does every western weapons system run into a problem and cost overrun?Its a armored fighting vehicle.Not a damn super carrier or stealth fighter.Is it the greedy manufacturers? Or the retarded military requirements?
>Bongs trying to claim Ajax can compete with LynxHow desperate
>>50016593>claim superiority>have claim proven false with easily verifiable information>cry
>>50016613You haven‘t proven anything especially when the Ajax is in that state that even the MoD openly talks about Ajax not being savable
>>50016513>Lynx is yet another platform based on the obsolete marder HullImma need some source on that.
>>50016535because in western countries you are allowed to talk about this stuff. You think Russia or china would tell us if the equipment they invested billions into was a dud?
>>50016629>even the MoD openly talks about Ajax not being savable"potentially" its a bargaining position, they are fighting a PR war with GD to decide who pays for some new suspensions parts.>>50016632Confused lynx for puma - it's still cramped as fuck though, see pic
>>50016680Christ, i do not envy the three guys sitting in the front there. Even the Cv90 can fit 8 burly scandinavians in full battle rattle, and that thing is quite a bit smaller than the Lynx
>>50016680>post a 12 manned proposal >while Ares is 9Makes you think
>>50016474There is nothing unique about Ajaxhttps://www.rheinmetall-defence.com/media/editor_media/rm_defence/pdfs/produktpdfs/lynx/brochure_Rheinmetall_LYNX_OMFV_concept.pdf
>>50016796And it‘s a mechanical more modern
>>50016778Why is it illuminated like the inside of a dogging-tent at Glastonbury?
>>50016778Ares is an APC for auxiliary forces, it's not a front line IFV, none of the Ajax variants are. I'm still amazed that after all these years you haven't learned that Ajax is a CVR(t) /semi fv430 replacement and not a warrior replacement.And as a result it offers its crew and troops far more space for their anti-tank, recon/comms/air defence gear>>50016796I'm not seeing anything that matches all of the capabilites I've described.
>>50016796KekAlso Rheinmetall adds whatever you want. You can replace basically all subsystems with domestic ones if you want.
>>50016848Learn to English, until then your opinions are worthless. German isn't an important language.
>>50016474https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/worldwide/defence/orionThis is what the Ajax has. It's not "monitored by AI" and it doesn't seem to have an ultraviolet channel.>It has an acoustic gunfire sensorShot detectors are nothing special- they're quite small and can be fitted to pretty much any AFV.>It has a dismountable LIDAR sensor to observe enemy armour and queue targetsI have not heard of this before, do yo have a source?>And unlike Lynx it has the ability to pass direct targeting information to other allied platforms like F35, Apache and HIMARS to allow them to engage targets using allied weaponsA very nice feature, but not something that would consume too much space/power on any other modern IFV.
>>50016929There is nothing you to request a variant with just seven seats and to use the space for additional equipment. With or without manned turret.And of course you don‘t see the same capabilities because you are blind and an idiot.
Kek, a lot of the shit is coming from the same companies
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GefziCmyEOU&feature=youtu.beLook at this! The Lynx can drive faster than 20kmh and the soldiers aren’t deaf
>>50015335>750 million GBPAnon, I...>A UK defence minister has admitted for the first time that the government is “not 100 per cent certain” that the problems facing its Ajax armoured vehicle programme are resolvable, raising the prospect that more than £3bn already spent on the new fleet might be wasted.>The Ministry of Defence ordered 589 high-tech Ajax reconnaissance vehicles from US contractor General Dynamics seven years ago in a deal worth £5.5bn. The vehicles were meant to be ready for delivery from 2017 but so far only 26 have been handed over, and troops testing them have reported hearing and vibration injuries.
>>50016953It absolutely is, I don't have the time to find you the link but it won't be hard to Google. The LIDAR is specific to the ground based surveillance variant, that should be enough for you to Google it.>>50016974I have no idea why you're on an English speaking website when you can't speak English, try again.
>Earlier this month, Mark Francois, a Conservative MP on the defence committee, gave a blunt appraisal of Ajax's deficiencies>"It's heavier than a Sherman tank. It's too small. And it's as stealthy as a Ford Transit full of spanners", he said Based Mark bringing the banter
>>50017279>I just pulled something out of my ass>google it
>>50016270>Ajax has superior armamentKek, the turret is nothing more than a modified Lance turret. Rheinmetall probably could integrate the fucking thin within a week.
Should have use wheels, simple as
Why would you want to use a LIDAR and tell everyone where you are?
>>50015081>fill the gap with more Boxers and accept a lack of capabilitiesThis. They've already accepted Boxer 8x8 as replacement for Warriors, may as well fill the combat reconnaissance role with Boxer like Australia has
Very telling that the posts stop after euro hours, OP exposed himself as a triggered euro.
>>50019621>last posts would be 2am in EuropeMmh
>>50016796Sweet. That with the vehicle own drone is a pretty nice idea
That’s sure fucked up
>>50018221Isn't the Boxer quite a good vehicle anyway? Sure it isn't tracked but it seems perfectly capable
>>50015026>At this point they should just boy some Lynx.Yes please t. Rheinmetall shareholder
>>50016974>It doesn't have these capabilities >Yes but you could hypothetically add them! So HA! You're clutching at straws.
>>50019621Weird how fucking upset Germans get when you don't buy their shit. The kvetching about Ajax and "just buy lynx" has been been a regular feature for ages.
>>50015026Why can't Europoors and bongs just do koint projects, instead of coming up with a whole bunch of sub-optimal designs independently? As a whole W. Europe has the money and technical knowledge to field some good shit, right?
>>50021552Because what the UK needs is not what Germany needs.
>>50021552There are a lot of joint projects going on in Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_Structured_Cooperationhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_for_Joint_Armament_Cooperation
>>50021552Because all their joint projects become a mess.
>>50021408Wheeled vehicles can’t fill the same role as tracked ones
>>50021524But it does. It’s literally from the same supplier
>>50021620What about Italy
>>50021627>But it does >Hypothetically >On this sales brochure
>>50021635What about them?They have tanks, ifv's and wheeled
>>50021533It has more to do with the fact that their service rifle is made by the germans, their APCs as well as their """new""" MBTs are made by Rheinmetall and in all honesty they'll always get their panties in a twist whenever you poke a little bit of fun at them, which is probably the biggest motivator.
>>50021685That's not the vibe I have been getting with Ajax. It's "reee how dare you not buy!" and it's constant.
>>50015335>How do they do it brosBy getting the Americans to design it.
>>50021697And they were right
>>50016535Highly complicated and complex specialized technology built for a very niche application in very limited numbers, made worse by often dysfunctional government bureaucracies looking to shave off a few millions off a multi billion dollar/euro/pound project.
>>50021707This one is all on the UK, the modifications they made to the ASCOD platform are what's causing all of the problems.
>>50022016It’s absurd they tried to turn a two decade old design into something Lynx is made from the ground for.
>>50022085Lynx was made ground up as a recon vehicle?
>>50022090Armoured reconnaissance is a core module
>>50022100Then why isn't it as capable as Ajax?
>>50022107Nice baseless claim.
>>50022107>Then why isn't it as capable as Ajax?In what regards? I mean we're talking about Rheinmetall here. Just like with the Boxer they'll slap everything you ask them to into the Lynx if you just buy the goddamn thing.
>>50022118They even provide you with subsystems for your own IFV like they do for Ajax
>>50022109>>50022118>>50022125People have been crying throughout this thread about how everything that makes Ajax good could just be bolted to lynx - what sore of cope argument is that if the vehicle can't compete on it's own merit with it's own weapons and sensors? Ignoring the fact that a significant part of Ajax's development has gone into software and sensors that are never going to be let out of GD and the UK's hands. It's not off the shelf technology.
>>50022152A collection of Thales product
>>50022152>It's not off the shelf technology.It's a modified austro-spanish hull with a modified german turret and half of Thales product catalog thrown into the mix.
>>50022172Thales UK hardware, with software that makes it stand out - software that is not accessible by Rheinmetall. So i'll ask again, why can't lynx stand on it's own merit rather than just saying (incorrectly) that it could just have all of the good bits of Ajax at the wave of a magic wand?
>>50022176Also German engine and German transmission
>>50022176And yet it's the UK proprietary software and kit that makes it the best recon vehicle on the planet. pee pee poo poo sneed.
>>50022180>I will just claim things
>>50022187It can’t even drive faster than 20kmh
>>50022175>https://www.czdefence.com/article/situational-awareness-system-gives-lynx-crew-freedom-to-fightAjax does this in a wider EO spectrum, it has Thermal and LIDAR in addition to daylight and infrared. Ajax's audio detection is also suprior, lynx can't pinpoint anything over 40mm, Ajax and go all the way up past tank main armaments to artillery shells to provide a basic counter battery capability. Then there's all the cool shit with passing targets directly to aircraft, artillery and non LOS anti-tank missiles so that Ajax can engage observed targets without firing a shot itself.
>>50022085At the time, Lynx did not exist. However they could've bought Puma or CV90.
>>50022192It's about 5kmh faster than Lynx actually. >>50022189Don't be upset, I know that since your own forces are a joke you have to try and live through us by trying to take pride in selling us equipment. ride on our coattails like the parasite you are, Germany will never go to war again. (which is probably good because you've proven to be quite bad at war).
>>50022212You are sure pulling shit out of your ass
>>50022214The UK isn't buying an IFV it's buying a CVRT/FV430 replacement
>>50015026should have bought CV90
>>50022227Don't be upset, go outside and have a walk, you can't win all the arguments. You're anonymous after all, why do you care about losing face here? Go get your mum to make you some tendies, maybe go apply for a job?
>>50022212We all know you are talking bullshit but just to pick one example. The Acusonic system can detect and pinpoint ‚large small arms calibers‘ up to 1.5km. https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2021/05/thales-creates-acoustic-shot-detector-sensor-for-maritime-environment/That doesn’t sound like 40mm
>>50022212Wow, lynx doesn't even have thermals? that's bad in 2001 let alone 2021.
>>50022226>Germany will never go to war again. (which is probably good because you've proven to be quite bad at war).Do you think we'll ever see an independent Prussia again? Or has the cultural damage already gone far enough to strip them of everything that used to make them worthwhile?
>>50022212>>50022277I don't think Lynx has the ultraviolet missile warning system or the chemical air sniffer either.
>>50022282Germany should have been broken up after ww2 as was our right to do as victors, smaller German states aren't a threat and desu they probably would have liked it. But le cold war happened instead.
>>50022258He will just goalpost move and try to throw other bullshit
>>50022299Don’t forget the samefagging
>>50022296Why give any land there to France? They weren't a belligerent in ww2 by any but the most technical of standards. give the northern blue blob on your map there to the UK, and the southern one to the US.
>>50022286They also lack the 40mm CTA cannon (hits like a 50mm) and the IR jammers. You really do have to wonder how an IFV with minimal features like lynx could even be condiered in the same class as a dedicated recon vehicle like Ajax.
>>50022258Lol, how he just invented more bullshit after calling out
>>50022258Systems are more capable than the brochure lets on. Pic related is from a TUS (thales underwater systems) product that proceeded the current system fitted to Ajax.
AlsoThe LANCE is equipped with a state-of-the-art, fully digital fire control system. Two electro-optical sights – each equipped with a high-resolution camera, a thermal imaging camera and a laser rangefinder – are also provided. One of the sights enables 360-degree visibility, irrespective of the movement of the turret. Of particular benefit is the fact that each system can be operated both by the commanding officer and by the gunner. With LANCE RC, the modular design also allows the turret system to be remotely controlled.
>>50022374So it doesn't have 360' thermal? or 360' ultraviolet? Or 360' Lidar? or a radar? You're literally just proving lynx is inferior.
>>50022382Neither does Ajax but okay
>>50022387>The vehicle contains 360° Situational Awareness Systems and thermal imagers and cameras which enable day/night/long range/infrared/laser search and detection.>Protection in the vehicle defends the crew against multiple threats and includes chemical detection, laser and missile warning systems. Ajax will have three vehicle-mounted Acusonic acoustic shot detection sensors that can detect the direction of incoming fire.>https://www.forces.net/services/army/all-gen-ajax-military-vehicleLiterally 10 seconds on google could have prevented you making a fool of yourself.
>>50022387He lost it.Love how he picked some unrelated shit to save face about the acoustic sensor
>>50022398Read and think again
>>50022404Oh dear… I think he misinterpreted the 360 statement
>>50022404Maybe you should read? what don't you understand? Please tell me that you're not confusing a single thermal camera (that can turn 360') on lynx with multiple thermal cameras on Ajax that provide permanent 360' coverage. Ajax provides it's 360' simultaneous monitoring in far more EO/EM bands.
I heard that the problem with Ajax is the headsets the crew wear do not cancel out sound and that it is the volume of the head sets causing the ear damage.Apparently there are 70 squaddies that have to get their ears checked regularly due to hearing damage.
>>50021620>Wheeled vehicles can’t fill the same role as tracked onesDid you not read? Boxer replacing Warrior
>>50022415The primary sight is separate to the 360' monitoring system.
>>50022419Stop being a retard and think about what you read
>>50022444you've still failed to explain what you don't understand, are you afraid of exposing your lack of knowledge?
It also seems that Ajax has a meteorological sensor that Lynx doesn't have, the list keeps getting longer. Ajax's mobile camouflage system will surely give it a lower IR signature too.
>>50022175>Having some situational awareness >Being a recon vehicle Yeah, mate, my Golf has parking assist so now its a fucking Recce wagon. Stop trying to shoehorn the lynx info every fucking application.
By the time the Ajax will enter into service (without deafening its crew while also being able to fire on the move) it will have plasma cannon and optical camouflage like the Predator. It will also be able to fly AND dig under the ground like a mole
>>50022501It’s just trolling at this point
The amount of asshurt in this thread...
I like how he mixes up the multi cam system and Orion and then just invents baseless shit
>>50022538>Replying to him but not replying I like it how you're behaving like a woman
>>50022538MCS is far superior to multi-cam, it has thermal protection. Try again hans, you're getting devastated ITT (as usual)>https://www.saab.com/products/mcs-mobile-camouflage-system
>>50022538He is an idiot.
Based on Australia Lynx is better than Ajax
>>50022589??? I can't tell bait from stupid anymore. I guess it's time for a break.
>claim Lynx is better >realise Lynx has far worse sensors & weapons >try to claim ajax doesn't have the stated capabilities >get proven wrong >samefag and cry Classic.
Not even the Germans want lynx.
>>50016778Based ambient lighting, is it RGB?
>>50022606You realize ASCOD was offered and not Ajax and that ASCOD itself is such a broad design that it's resulted in Ajax, the Griffin II (SMOL tank for US) and Griffin III (contender for Bradley replacement).
>>50016944Bruh, nobody is speaking British English lmao.
>>50022676Ah, so it was Ajax. Okay tell me more about how the recon platform that when turreted has no dismounts was not fit for purpose as an IFV.
>>50022641>the Griffin II (SMOL tank for US) and Griffin III (contender for Bradley replacement).The "Griffin" vehicles are the tank equivariant of concept cars. The actual OMFV/MPF vehicles are new designs that contain some off the shelf components.
>>50022706 The current situational awarenss system from Rheinmetall uses the SCM 60 (surveillance camera module) that is also part of the Boxer CRV and the Puma S1 upgrade. It combines a 1,600 x 800 pixel daylight camera and a 640 x 480 pixel thermal imager with a 60° fíeld of view. The Lance 2.0 turret features six SCM 60 modules. The software allows fusing the outputs of thermal and daylight optics together. So what is new for the Bongs is old hat for the Germans
>>50022676>>50022689This is sloppy reporting, None of the Ajax variants were proposed for Australia, it was an ASCOD - see pic.There isn't an IFV version of Ajax.
>>50022612because the German army just introduced a new IFV already, the Puma. Afaik the Lynx is basically a cheaper yet equally capable version of the Puma
>>50022759The Lynx is designed better but also has worse protection.
>>50022742And yet still not deployed on Lynx (that's also only part of the 360' system, The LIDAR and UV component is separate, with the radar being another separate system). All of them are fused together by to the software into one picture for the crew.
>>50022759Puma has a 1970's tier interior, it's cramped as fuck and not fit for purpose with todays troops.
>>50022769No and noYou are getting desperate
>>50022775yes and yes, sorry. see >>50022440, part of the missile warning system.
>>50022768how is it designed better?>>50022772do you have the same layout for the Lynx to compare?
>>50022751>There isn't an IFV version of Ajax.I know, that's been my entire point this whole time. Not only with the Aussies but generally in comparing Ajax to other ifvs.
>>50022792I don't sorry.
>>50022799Brainlets see tracks and a gun and assume it's an IFV. the recon version of Ajax only has three crew and a seat for one in the back since it carries so much recon equipment. So you get retards like this German guy who thinks if Lynx has a single thermal sight it means it must be a recon vehicle too - despite lacking all the the extra equipment that Ajax has.
>>50022792>how is it designed better?Modularity, the Puma is cramped and it's a known issue and they can't change it, the Lynx doesn't have the problem or otherwise there would be reports. Lynx just misses the ERA and MUSS from the Puma.
>>50022759Puma is designed to be an IFV - not a vehicle family. Which means it's less space wasting.
>>50022775Love how no one is asking for a source anymore because we all know it's bullshit.
>>50022742Guy gets owned hard here
>>50022875You're samefagging now?
>>50022889yes, you and me are the only people here on /k/
>>50022849How can you provide a source when someone's objection is as vague as "no". You're terrified of being specific about what it is you don't think Ajax can do over Lynx because it's then easy to prove you wrong.
>>50022769>And yet still not deployed on LynxSo the system on the Lynx you claimed doesn't have thermal imagers is now not deployed on the Lynx. Okay
>>50022959Are you the German conflating having a thermal optic to the Ajax's sensor fusion?
>>50022959What is his problem. Do he believe that the world is sleeping when the UK is buying basic designs and subsystems together.
>>50023091and yet ajax still has more advanced systems covering a larger spectrum. keep up.
>>50023091Just feel bad for him
wheres is lynx's UV, lidar and radar? where is its atmosphere sniffer and meteorology gear? what about it's comms node equipment? why can't it act as a targeting hub for aircraft, artillery and other forces?
>>50023149>but but>nonsense here>ignoring everything you got proven wrong
>>50023149Look up the PDF one guy posted. It can act as a targeting hub for planes, helis, other ground troops and even ships.
>>50023183I've not been proven wrong about anything? are you dumb? Why is Lynx lacking the previously stated abilities?
I swear the Germans on /k/ have the biggest case of small man syndrome out of anyone
>>50023220>'ve not been proven wrong about anything?Says man who was proven wrong.
The fundamental advantage of Lynx is that Rheinmetall leveraged all its knowhow from the Boxer, Puma and other vehicles - so pretty much all subsystems are used somewhere else already. So something like the clusterfuck Ajax can't happen to Lynx.
>>50022016No it’s got a lot of problems that stem from the fact that Spaniards are fucking incompetent
>>50027834And the part where they say sections of inconsistent length - that’s resulted in some of the hulls being more than a foot longer than specified. They’re not slight errors. They’re monumental cock ups
Why is the Bong apologist arguing that a recon variant of the Lynx would not have the mission equipment the recon variant of the Ajax has?
>>50025616not him, but you're clearly the retarded one here. You can't just ""what if"" a variant into existence and assume it's going to be cheaper and better than another. >>50028681Are you arguing that Rheinmetall could just integrate all that shit effortlessly? There is no off-the-shelf option which fulfills the brief... if there was it'd have been in the fucking competition. The UK doesn't have any hangups about buying German. If a Lynx recon variant was an option, and superior to the GD offering they'd have bought it like they did the Boxer. You're sperging out becase the bongs aren't buying a recon vehicle that doesn't evn exist.
>>50025616I think it’s very remarkable how someone can post wrong stuff all the time like the acoustic sensors or thermal cams. Doesn’t understand the panorama image feature of its vehicle of choice and then adds fantasy stuff left and right.
>>50029522He operates from the point that everything made in the UK is the best by far. Of course it couldn’t be further from the truth so he is forced to add more and more bullshit on the list.And more often than not he doesn’t know what he is talking.
>>50028908>Are you arguing that Rheinmetall could just integrate all that shit effortlessly?Yes, none of the mission equipment is particularly special.>If a Lynx recon variant was an optionLynx didn't exist during the FRES and SCOUT SV selections.
So why does the Bong claim things Ajax has although it is obviously wrong?
>>50031077You would try to cope too if you had to live in country with the geopolitical pull of Bulgaria and an economy on par with the ones found in Italy, Spain or other southern european shitholes. The bong doesn't just live a life of total individual irrelevancy but on a national level.
>>50031077You're still here and still seething? >>50031136These statements are all wildly Inna urate. Sorry they left the EU bro, I know breakups are tough but you will get over it eventually.
>>50030801So you are sperging out because the bongs didn't buy something that didn't exist? And your still shilling and you're still comparing an IFV to a Scout vehicle? Have you even been tested for the big A?
>>50028908Dude... we're not talking about 'capabilities' here. It's a troop carrier, by whatever name. If it can't carry its troops without rattling their teeth loose and subjecting them to -- Jesus Christ! -- permanent hearing loss, then it is not fit for fucking service. Full stop.
>>50028681Because it doesn't?
>>50031255>>50031269Why do you feel the need to samefag Nigel?
>>50024680Yeah. It's insane. This thread is some of the most ridiculous autistic screeching I think I have ever seen.
>>50031289>Reading through the threas and replying to posts >Samefagging First, you have no idea what samefagging is and thus: lurkmoar newfag Second, South African, hence "you only think I am an autistic retard cuz nationalism" does not apply. I think you're an autistic retard because you are behaving like one.
Ajax does have some perceived advantage, or at least, an excellent optics and surveillance package compared to the Lance 2.0 turret, but it's not significant enough to warrant this much dumb discussion.If anything, I'd say it's on par with the Jaguar turret from France. Both fall short compared to a telescopic optics package that can be raised several meters above the vehicles though.
>>50017583It lies so everyone's deceived.
>>50031269Or you could read what was written instead of autistically screeching when someone criticized your waifu.
>>50031292The reaction to OP suggesting the bongs should buy Lynx has been quite a show.
>>50031367Lynx would be the natural plan b. Just for the the BAE and Rheinmetall connection. And whatever Subsystem the Bongs feel is crucial and important could be integrated into Lynx - the Germans have a successful history of integrating whatever you want. Though personally I would rate the possible synergy effects between Boxer and Lynx more important than ordering from the Thales catalogue.
>Ajax is better!>ignores facts that the sensors of the Lynx are better>adds stuff which none Ajax actually deploys
>>50031504Nobody here thinks the Lynx sensors are better, just that they are nearly as good and still first-class sensors.Ajax turret just has an edge on surveillance with a couple other features.
>>50015062It's really hard to make a simple IFV/APC for some reason. The US also has this problem.
>>50021968>Highly complicated and complex specialized technologyIt's an armored car with a gun on it.
>>50031537There is actually no reason to believe that Ajax has better sensors. We just had the example of the acoustic sensor which is limited to small arms caliber on the Ajax but go up to 40mm which would be IFV weaponry on the Lyxn
>>50028681The Lynx has no way to counter tanks. No AT missiles and its 50mm ammo is not going to be very effective.
>>50031551I loved how it got handwaved by our Bong.
>>50031552Lynx has AT missiles and Iron Fist APS, oh, and also operates alongside tanks
>>50031564Meanwhile Ajax has no anti tank missile option
>>50031564>Lynx has AT missilesIncorrect. The Lynx clearly has no missiles of any kind. It doesn't have APS, either.
>>50031568Yeah but isn't that by design? If they don't want ATGMs then that's fine, if they wanted them but failed to integrate them into the turret then that's different.Lance turret has ATGM capability, but it may not be wanted by the user.Pic is turret with and without ATGM.
>>50031575ATGMs are in a twin-round, read-to-fire pop-up launcher in the turret.APS is Iron Fist, as pictured >>50031564 and here
>>50031575Not sure if trolling or just retarded
Wanna hear something funny.The Ajax has a local awareness system that are three camera systems with camera and thermal cams. Nice stuff but the back isn’t covered.Meanwhile Lynx has a true 360 coverage with 6 camera modules providing the crew with a full coverage with daylight, infrared and thermal footage
>>50031583Actually on the Lance 1 and 2 they are mounted on the side, maybe you were thinking of the other IFV in the competition, the AS21 Redback which has the retractable launcher.
>>50031349I have read what is written, and it's all nonsense. >Why did they not pick a vehicle that did not exist?!? >Well hypothetically it could contain these equipment packages >Et cetera ad infinitum ad nausea
>>50031587Yeah, the narrative that the Ajax had better sensors than other vehicles was always bullshit.Facts were also provided here:>>50022706>>50022175
>>50031602>Just two AT missiles.Both would be easily stopped by enemy APS. The Lynx is no tank killer.
>>50031551The press release states it has detection of up to 1.5km for "large calibre small arms". Everything else is speculation on your part.
>>50031587>Surveillance provided by eight cameras continuously builds up a fully digital, 360-degree view of the surroundings, which can then be shared across the battlefield.You have to be trolling.
>>50031577Yeah, the Brits for some reason didn't want ATGMs on their vehicles.
>>50031623Based on what? What specifically?
>>50031643>the official statement is wrong!One would imagine Thales would advertise the outstanding performance to customers
>>50031575>It doesn't have APS, either.https://www.army-technology.com/news/hungary-strikeshield-aps-lynx-ifv/
>>50031674I just posted the official statement. That's all they are releasing. So, again, you're speculating.
>>50031683>take the word of the company>you are speculating!>claiming the system can detect and pinpoint 120mm, artillery at crazy ranges >facts!There is always some grey area a company isn’t that open about but the gap between something like 20mm to 120mm and and from 2km to whatever is kinda big.
>>50031674As someone who has worked with a lot of military equipment (communications, EW, ELINT, equipment at sea) I can promise you that the real capabilities are not in the public domain domain for these systems, a lot of the systems aren't even publicly acknowledged.
>>50031697Also that’s the same guy who claimed the official statement of 40mm detection (Lynx) is inferior than the small caliber detection of the Ajax.
>>50031673>>50031678It looks like you're just getting baited, quit letting them troll you in your own troll thread.
A predecessor from 2004 was evaluated by NATO and they published the results, as we can see in >>50022353
>>50031697>There is only one person in this threadI never claimed that it could detect arty, shot detecting is a defensive not observational asset and Brits use MAMBA+ Exactor for detecting and taking out enemy batteries, Ajax is not intended for finding arty.I am simply pointing out that you are speculating.
>>50031703You haven’t worked at all. Otherwise you would know that a company like Thales wouldn’t hide their acoustic sensor in the group of local sensors but would advertise their game changing sensor a package a little big bigger.
>>50031627>Just two AT missiles.Cope. Post an IFV with more than 2 ATGMs ready to fire
>>50031705>Small calibre detection I just posted the official statement on capability. What does it say? >Same guyWrong.
>>50031719Guy is so broken in his head. How often does he want to be owned here?
>>50031662>eight camerasSource on that? Sounds like bullshit.
>>50031712It's not game changing at all, they've been in service for almost 20 years. Sorry if a never served retard like yourself only has the brochures to go off as you sit in your bedroom and fantasise about being in the armed forces that you were too fat/lazy/scared to join.
>>50031712Oh and as for Thales, I've used some of their equipment that isn't even on the website, so fuck off mate.
>>50031719Yes and? He was wrong about the acoustic sensor package. I am not him, stop obsessing over him and focus on what I am saying.
>>50031739Scott Milne, chief engineer at General Dynamics UK.
>>50031749I don't think he's realised that there's several brits all cycling through the thread lol
That samefagging oh dear
>>50031740What a complicated way to say: I don’t have anything to back up my claims
>>50031769And yet you didn't have the balls to reply to us so we can prove you wrong
>>50031769Bong is Armatard
>>5003180439 posters and OP thinks he's having a two way conversation LOL, talk about mental illness.
>>50031808Kek it's just been one person after the next calling him an autist. Reminds me of the Vice Video about "the most racist town in America" where the dude held a BLM sign outside of Walmart and the locals formed a polite que to call him a dickhead.
>Inconsistent lengths>Sides not parallel>Substandard welds>Attachment points not drilled with jigsOh dear. Hopefully they can recycle the steel.
>>50015026How can you fuck up so badly?
>>50031824Dude, right in the source there is a sentence about how they are fixing the defaults. You're behaving like armatard now. Stop it.
>>50031848>“I describe Ajax as a troubled programme. I wish it wasn't, but it is,” Minister for Defence Procurement Jeremy Quin said. “It requires a lot of work from ourselves and our industry partners to get ourselves back on track. We can't be 100% certain that can be achieved.”>quality control especially poor throughout the first 100 hulls, but this issue has not been entirely eliminated in subsequent batches Yes, they're trying, but your post is overly defensive to the point of bias. He was merely pointing out how shit the hulls are.Also, 100 hulls or more to have serious defects is unacceptable. First 10 or so, maybe, but 100 or more hulls is horrible.
>>50031878The first 100 hulls were made in Spain.
>>50031886Yes I'm aware
>>50031878>Overly defensiveYou have spend the last 48 hours at set to maximum asshurt and are now resorting to talking absolute shit. It's not me being defensive, it's me calling you out for being the disingenous spastic that you are. >Merely pointing out how shit the hulls are Yet again, disingenous. The hulls aren't shit, the first 100 hulls from Spain were shit and had to have work done on them to fix them. So firstly it's not "the hulls" it's a portion thereof and secondly it's not "the hulls are shit" it's that work done on a portion of the hulls are shit and had to be remedied.Seriously, what's the deal here?
>>50031906>You have spend the last 48 hoursWrong person. I don't care eitherway, I just bring up facts. My country chose Boxer for its combat recon role.>The hulls aren't shit, the first 100 hulls from Spain were shitNot shit or shit? >have work done on them to fix them"We can't be 100% certain that can be achieved""this issue has not been entirely eliminated in subsequent batches"You still don't have my opinion, I'm just discussing what has been reported and simply stating that for 100 hulls to be defective is not acceptable.You might be upset at that, you can blame Spain or your precious UK, but it makes no difference to me.
>>50031947>"We can't be 100% certain that can be achieved">"this issue has not been entirely eliminated in subsequent batches"Those are two seperate quotes your juxtaposing together to imply the same meaning. >Defective Remedied
>>50027834Fucking hell, reminds me of Bofors back in the Archer-days
>>50031959>Remedied>not entirely eliminatedYou're infatuated with the Ajax to the point you can't accept any legitimate criticisms of the vehicle or program, or even comparisons to other suitable technologies or vehicles.Funniest part is, I rate Ajax turret on par with the Jaguar turret for battlefield reconnaissance, followed by any modern turret like the EOS-T2000 or Lance 2.0, or any turret with independent gunner-commander 360 sights with killer-killer functionality.
Just call it a day and buy Lynx instead
>>50031623I still fail to see what Ajax is doing better than Lynx, it starts with the automotive parts to the sensors and later networking. Also Lynx makes uses of Rheinmetall's xGVA, which is fully compatible with the NGVA (NATO STANAG 4754), the older and less comprehensive British DefStan 23-09 GVA and the DEF (AUST) 11316 Australian GVA. So Lynx has already an common interface for ADP and drones.
Elbit System’s Self-Protection Suite including Laser Warning System, Missile Warning Sensors, and IR Jammer.Protects against SACLOS missiles.Similar action as the T-90A jammers.360 degree coverage, range from 0.5-1.6m.ScoutingThales Acoustic Sensors: Notifies crew of direction of enemy fire, 360 degree awareness.Thales Stabilized 3rd-Generation Battle Group Thermal Imager (BGTI) SystemORION Panoramic Primary Sight Thales Catherine-MP (Mega Pixel) Thermal Imager: CommanderDNGS-T3 Stabilized Thermal Secondary Sight: GunnerThales LSA Thermal Imager: DriverLaser Rangefinder76mm Smoke Launchers x16 (x8 each side of Turret): Can be set to automatic discharge when detecting incoming missiles.
>>50032081Situational awareness: Both members of the turret crew have access to the Stabilized Electro Optical Sight System/SEOSS, in two different versions: the 360° independent commander’s sight and main gun-aligned gunner’s sight. Both variants of the SEOSS feature common components, i.e. a digital TV and 3rd generation IR cameras, with an integrated laser rangefinder and fire control computer. In the fighting compartment, displays provide the crew with a seamless 360° panoramic view thanks to Rheinmetall’s Situational Awareness System (SAS), which features automatic target detection and tracking, enhancing the target detection process and minimizing crew reaction times.Emerging threats can be swiftly engaged with the Lynx’s array of different weapon systems. Laser warning sensors (LWS) and Rheinmetall’s Acoustic Shooter Locating System (ASLS) are connected to the sensor suite, fire control computer and combat management system.BMS – real time communication with higher echelon elements, connection to vehicle sensors, real time information on the enemy, rapid transfer of information and operational status data.unter Strike with Active Defence System (ADS) and ROSYROSY delivers instantaneous, multispectral, 360° visual smoke/obscurant protection that can be activated automatically when a vehicle comes under fire. ADS provides active protection against RPGs, ATGMs and KE tank ammunition, resulting in minimal collateral damage. Thanks to these two systems, it’s possible to thwart an attack, take evasive action and initiate countermeasures
>>50032100Ajax is so much better…eh I bet Lynx doesn’t even have a teacooker and tactical biscuit holder
>>50032081>>50032100Why did it take an entire thread until someone just posted that shit?
>>50032127Because the last German was terrified of confirming that Lynx has no LIDAR or Radar. Plus it's not fitted with UV sensors, atmosphere sniffers of meteorological sensors like Ajax. So thanks for proving us right I guess.
>>50032127Because all the official stuff doesn’t include the fantasy shit
>>50032081>>50032100Who are you referencing?
>>50032127There's not a lot that special there
>>50032022>Not entirely remedied Big if true! Source? >Can't accept critism of Ajax You're not criticising Ajax, your criticising Spanish welders. I could give a shit about them.
Lynx > Ajax
>>50032258I'm a fan of Boxer and Lynx, but for reconnaissance it's Jaguar > Ajax > Boxer > Lynx
>>50032252I have read that. Have you? >QC on the first 100 made in Spain really bad>Some QC issues persist QC from Spain is quantified: shit QC on other batches in unquantified. Generally: flaws being fixed. Read shit dispassionately, injecting feels into it makes you miss meaning.
>>50032273That's the thing, I haven't been. You're projecting your own emotions, I simply stated what has been reported.I hope it gets fixed, but 100 faulty hulls isn't acceptable. It shouldn't be for you either. I'm not shitting on the UK, just saying.
>>50032273Where are the other batches made?
>>50032285I honestly don't give a shit about the internal problems of the company. Provided they are fixing it and provided it's not ended up in the final product its a fucking non-story.
>>50032297Lots of posts for a non-story
>>50032299You brought it up and keep sticking to it. Naturally there will be many responses.
>>50032311I didn't bring up anything. I'm not who you think I am. My only opinion is >>50032265
>>50032273So really what we have here is a COTS vehicle that's been under contract for over a decade now, yet has such poor QC+ severe design faults that make it unfit for service.
>>50032265The fact that Lynx is designed to operate an own drone makes it better than Ajax and Jaguar
You need to have some balls to claim that the Ajax is better than anything at that state.
>>50032338No, read the source.
I like how the Bongs fuck up a vehicle variant which base model is in use for two decades. Meanwhile Rheinmetall designed and tested the Lynx in record time with leveraging their industry know how and most likely has it faster in frontline service than the Ajax.
>>50027834Also the barrels for the 40mm CTAS provided by Nexter were bending when firing on the move. French probably tried to make a few extra euros by using cheap, out of spec steel instead of the proper stuff
>>50022296>ourWho is this? An anglocuck?
>>50033176Your better, learn your place.
>>50033273>your betterNigel Ahmed Habib...I...
>>50033165All those fuckeries sound like the UK side fucked up the specifications
>>50033165Big if true! Source?
>>50015026How the fuck do you shit the bed so hard that you have to cut 35% of your tank force, 50% of your total army (army + reserves), your IFV mid-life update just to barely afford an oversized armoured recon platform and two 2nd rate budget aircraft carriers?
>>50015026>At this point they should just boy some LynxNo they should just buy some Fennek or a Boxer recon vehicle from the Australian assembly line. Like stop shitting the bed with all this wasteful spending and shit decisions to "innovate" for a hypothetical next gen conflict that you will be too piss poor and anemic to afford deploying troops for anyway
>>50033515Cope: The Post
>>50033536>wasteful spending and shit decisions to "innovate"Oh yeah and I forgot corruption and kickbacks to a defence industry that just wants the government to be its paypig
>>50033536Getting your hands on a real IFV would be pretty sweet for the UK
>>50033537>Cope: The PostLiterally the opposite of coping you insipid retard
>>50033536>No they should just buy some Fennek orThey already have light recon sorted. Pic related>a Boxer reconThe stipulation is tracked recon. They have already bought the Boxer.
>>50033536>>50033568pic>>50033552Calling the Queen Elizabeth class 2nd rate and budget is surely cope. And their current procurement list extends well beyond an "over-sized recon platform"
>>50033568>The stipulation is tracked reconFor a tracked force that is essentially going to be phased out. 35% of the Challenger fleet is going to be cut and with the Warrior CSP being cancelled, that ~30+ year old platform's days are numbered. And yeah the Boxer procurement is why I'm mentioning it, since the intent is to replace the Warrior with the Boxer by the middle of the decade.
>>50033583Lol nice truck, totally not asking to be showered in shrapnel from and artillery round
>>50033583>Calling the Queen Elizabeth class 2nd rate and budget is surely cope. And their current procurement list extends well beyond an "over-sized recon platform"The MoD isn't gonna fuck you bro, at least not in a way you're gonna like
>>50033650Super interesting take, however the role has been filled and the Jackal series has proven (after some teething issues) to be a very popular vehicle. >>50033631Ajax is just one element of a larger program. There is still ares etc. In all the whole program is going to add ~500 tracked vehicles to the fleet.
>>50033650Can't hit what you can't find or catch. They did a superb job going into Taliban areas and harassing them. didn't use roads at all and had next to no issues with IED's. Worked for the OG SAS smashing German airfields in the night.
>>50033536>for a hypothetical next gen conflict that you will be too piss poor and anemic to afford deploying troops for anywayRight now their order book is for over 1000 brand new armored vehicles split 50-50 wheeled tracked and they have planned orders for new MRAP's, SPG's, GBADS and more SIGNIT shit. Niggers are on a spending spree
>>50033676>didn't use roads at all and had next to no issues with IED'sThat's not what I heard, the whole reason for Jackal's procurement was IED's
>>50033663>Ajax is just one element of a larger program. There is still ares etc. In all the whole program is going to add ~500 tracked vehicles to the fleetHey good for them if they actually get them, since we only ever hear about austerity cuts to the armed forces every other year, my point is that project mismanagement and wasteful spending on niche capabilities seems to be becoming the norm in smaller Western armies when their main problem is recruitment and personnel retention
>>50033723>planned ordersI've seen this movie a lot since the 90s, anon, it never ends well
>>50033724I think the point he is making is that it can handle ied strikes. >>50033740Cuts were made in order to phase in new equipment as the other anon above said, right now they are buying a whole load of shit for their army (and navy).
>>50033752Hey hey 144 F-35B soon
>>50033766Yeah, they cut them for Tempest. Dumb decision IMO but its not like they arent planning on getting airframes.
>>50033782They pretend to cut procurement of actual hardware for the next big thing just to cut that the next time.Type 45 production was cut for the Type 26 and then Type 26 was cut because of Type 31.
>>50033825As needs change so do their production priorities.
>>50033766>Tornado out of service>Typhoons cut down >F-35B order cut down>Tempest already seen the first budget cut
>>50033360First-hand account of a bloke on the ATDU trials team. Same bloke told me about Santa Barbara Sistemas making hulls that were too long, and the vibration problems, months before it came a matter of public record.Probably wont hear much about the CT40 problems because it's the one part of the vehicle (and Warrior CSP) that BAE were involved in, and they've been trying to get Warrior CSP and Ajax cancelled ever since they lost
>>50034365So no sauce?
>>50033782And then they cut Tempest too https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/uk-cuts-gbp370-million-from-tempest-programme
>>50034444That plane is supposed to come out in 2035 at the earliest.
>>50034452Not if you start cutting its budget starting in 2021
>>50021603Some become a mess, others are succesful (FREMM frigates) Same shit happening on the US side of the Atlantic.
>we have become exceedingly efficient at it