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File: 1623956251179.jpg (190 KB, 1440x1784)
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>he lives in a rural environment and builds an SBR for his defensive rifle because that's what the cool operators use
>What do you mean by rifle should be configured for where I live and not what's cool?
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>>50012107
If you don't protect your farmstead with a FAL to larp as a rhodie you're not doing it right
>>
>>50012107
>he doesnt own a wide range of tools to kill people / animals
Ngmi
>>
If you're rural you are going to be spending a lot of time in vehicles. Especially in the event of some sort of social breakdown.
You may need to clear outbuildings.
Maybe you live in some dense vegetation: I've dragged a 16" and a 11.5" through laurel hells, don't ask me to shoot either in there, but the "rifle" was especially useless.
Imo, if you're patrolling on foot, amd have open spaces or thinner woods, a semi .308 is the better plan. That super-lightweight POF or maybe a Sigshit 716i if you don't have as much dosh.
>>
>>50012308
>Maybe you live in some dense vegetation: I've dragged a 16" and a 11.5" through laurel hells, don't ask me to shoot either in there, but the "rifle" was especially useless.
Yeah. I mean first of all
>>50012107
>rural environment
This is basically a meaningless terms OP. "Rural" is a very, very wide category across the country, depending heavily on local agriculture, forestry management practices or lack thereof, environment and so on. Rural south west is pretty damn different than rural vermont/new hampshire/maine. I'm rural northern New England well into forest, and I've done serious solo multiweek excursions as well as a few more ordered 5-8 man group excursions. When dealing with serious completely unmaintained forest, shrubland or the like it's SLOW going even with specific bushwhacking with ample chance to snag on anything. On balance an SBR could be extremely useful in a lot of scenarios, not that I wouldn't want a few proper distance rifles on a team too. I wouldn't expect much of my own loadout or training to be of use on the great plains or in the desert though.

This is probably all silly anyway, but if anyone does want to take it seriously one size doesn't fit all.
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>>50012123
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAmTAESWMFE
>>
11.5 is effective up to 500 yards
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>>50012413
Effective, but accurate?
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>>50012427
It's your accuracy you ought to be worried about son
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>>50012427
>>50012413
How many self defense situations happen at 500 yards or meters?
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>>50012413
Not very.
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>>50012107
Why not make multiple. Instead of trying to make an everything rifle. Make 3 or 4 really good rifles for various situations or hell uppers.
I've got a 20", 11.5", 10.5" short and long ak, 16" .308 and 21"
Not to mention bolt actions. If I'm hunting deer I sure as hell aint takin the 10.5 get a gun for the situation instead of getting a jack of all trades master of none
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>>50012393
See you guys all have this fantasy of going on expeditions and shit when really you're just going to be defending your property and taking longer shots. Not going around clearing random buildings and shit. In this fantasy of just wandering around to places in a societal collapse you're going to end up on someone's property that they haven't abandoned like a retard to go play in the woods with their gear with no real goal in mind and get shot at from hundreds of yards away
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>>50012279
That makes too much sense for the boars. Ideally own at least one
>12.5" or less
>16"
>20"
>18" if u want to split the diff
>preferably have one with a matchgrqde barrel
>>
>>50012427
Yes
>>50012446
Not many
>>50012451
For th
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>>50012460
>See you guys all have this fantasy of going on expeditions and shit when really you're just going to be defending your property and taking longer shots
>and taking longer shots
Who is having the fantasy here anon? National gun stats are well known. Around 85% of defense gun encounters are under 7 yards. That's exactly why serious personal defense handgun training and the like tends to focus on getting 3-7 yard distances absolutely perfect first, and THEN starting to learn longer distance shooting. If you're talking competitions that's nice and all, but the fantasy is that you'll be doing some long range sniper shit. That's not how most of it goes down. Hell in a lot of places that would be flagrantly criminal 99.9% of the time, you'd have a very hard time arguing someone "hundreds of yards away" was an imminent threat to your person, or even homestead for those of us blessed to live in states where we can defend that too no questions asked.

In the real world most of us don't only have to pick 1 or 2 weapons, we can have a couple. But if I did only have to pick two I'd absolutely go towards a good handgun I was comfortable with and then an SBR or bullpup if personal defense was my primary consideration.

Obviously training beats everything else though all else being equal. Someone who's really good with any gun will beat a larper no matter what the latter's equipment is.
>>
I live in a shitty apartment in the middle of a major democrat controlled nigger infested shithole city
>>
These discussions are always at a moot point because almost every single defensive situation will be under 100 yards in range. Maybe 150 if shit gets really weird. There's no real reason in worrying about "but I need a 20" barrel to engage targets out at 800 yards!!" because in the real world, you would get fucked down hard by the law for smoking some dude that far out. In a SHTF scenario, if a hostile is 800 yards out, you more than likely have the option to just disengage or sneak around them because looking for a gunfight is utterly retarded and suicidal. The only time you're engaging at those ranges realistically is during some sort of militia/military operation where you're going after a known enemy force with backup and either the law is on your side or there is no law to speak of- which is to say, that shit is 99.999999999999999% not gonna fucking happen ever.
That being said if you're worried about it or just wanna do some longer range shooting get something with a longer barrel, but for almost every citizen in the country an 11.5 barrel on a rifle will be maneuverable in tight spaces and still able to hit targets at distances further out than typical self-defense engagement situations.
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>>50012308
Behold, the answer to vehicles and dense brush.
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>>50012669
Islam?
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>>50012642
>>50012527
Based factual-engagement-range enjoyers
>captcha: STATT
kek
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>>50012677
Takbir!
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>>50012669
Nice CZ99
>>
>>50012107
Just buy and AK
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>>50012669
Cost more to properly modernize, my only gripe with em
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>>50012642
>There's no real reason in worrying about "but I need a 20" barrel to engage targets out at 800 yards!!"
Anon I agree with most your points on barrel length and range. But I think it's still terrain and use dependent.
We've got a hiking anon that's been shot at from the other side of a valley by tweakers. Or what if your nutnfancy and shoot at wide open ranges.
I understand those examples would be unrealistic for the majority of anons. But in those environments/ situations I'd lean for a 16", 18",20" or possibly go up in calibers.
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>>50012642
What if I want to snipe government officials in runescape?
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>>50012543
So you need a FAL and some short shorts for the chimp out.
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>>50012910
I'm not saying that it doesn't happen- but can you honestly say that any court of law would let you walk after finding out you brained some mf at the distance of 7 or 8 football fields in self defense? I'm not saying you shouldn't have a rifle for long engagements, I just think the people who talk shit about smacking people at long range during SHTF are not thinking things through and just fantasizing about being some badass wasteland sniper.
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>>50012761
My mlok handguard and optics mount cost less than 250 bucks. Its not terrible like it used to be as now you can at least find decent non Russian stuff.
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>>50012970
SHTF implies there is no court of law
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>>50012984
Each person has their own view of what SHTF is. SA and Haiti good example of it hitting the fan, there is still law.
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>>50013073
>kidnappings and murder in broad daylight
>gangs running half the city of port au prince
yeah there is still law, not the kind where courts are involved though
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>>50013095
If you try to defend what is yours as an ordinary citizen they'll still make law on you though
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>>50012123
Why even bother with the gun if you're larping as a rhodie? Just skip the extra steps and give away your farm.
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>>50012910
>We've got a hiking anon that's been shot at from the other side of a valley by tweakers.
Sure, but is the actual IRL correct response there to shoot back with intent to get them or just to take cover or bug out? I mean yeah, I guess that depends on terrain to some extent, but it's larp or stupid to be in the mindset of always going right to force. In a bad situation often "not losing" is victory all by itself.

>>50012984
Also implies no hospitals. If I had 800m of range between me and a shooter by myself I'd try to run 99% of the time. Counter sniper should be done with airstrikes or artillery most of the time, and if you've got neither better to make THEM move. Use mobility.
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>>50013167
If I knew where they were and had a clear shot, I’d take it. One more player out of the game. Most other situations you’re right, better to move out of there.
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>>50012527
>shoots you in the back from 600m away
Heh, nothin personal.
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>>50013095
Courts are still involved, if not they wouldn't of arrested more than thousand people, continue to arrest them to stand trial.
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>>50013249
Where I live you can't really shoot past 300yrds.
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>>50012107
That's why i have a 7mm bolty boi and a snipers veil.
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>>50012702
Allahu Ackbar
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>>50013257
Don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone with genuine faith in the Haitian CJS. I’m assuming you think it’s the murderers and kidnappings getting arrested?
>>
Try to get a line of sight on something more than 150 yards away in Appalachia that isn't an interstate or some Carlos Hathcock ambush nonsense. I'd much rather have a suppressed 11.5 in the brush than an 18 inch that's going to shit the bed if it has to go through a stray tree limb anyway.
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>>50013268
You could if you had a rifle with a proper barrel length
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>>50013289
Hills and woods make barrel length irrelevant.
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>>50013324
Depends on if you're on the hill or down in the bottom.
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>>50013324
Irrelevant until you need it
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>>50012413
Absolute retard take and cope.
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>>50013226
I guess, but my working default assumption is that anyone shooting at me from that far away has already at least sighted out the area, is in place with fallbacks, and is either confident or suicidally dangerous enough to reveal themselves and shoot from that kind of extreme range. It's their turf now. Or like, are they even trying to kill me? Or are they holding my attention and getting me to focus through my scope while a couple of their buddies creep closer.

Like most of the time this feels like an overwhelmingly disadvantageous position right? Essentially it's walking into an ambush which is the worst. Even if I wanted to long range them I'd be inclined to retreat back and then try to do the same thing in reverse, if possible.
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>>50013334
>>50013339
Fucking flatlanders can't compregend hill country.
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>>50013349
Not an argument.
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>>50013358
I live in Appalachia. If you think max engagement distances never exceed 500 meters you’re retarded
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>>50013367
Dilate
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>>50013371
Not him but ok, can you give us a list of some of these >500m Appalachia engagements in the last century or so then?
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>>50013375
Not a argument and not familiar with such thing
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>>50013386
You know a tree line isn’t a solid wall right? You can still see significant distances in hollows and between hilltops
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>>50013371
Same. Aside from some farmland any sightline beyond 300yrds is rare.
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>>50013392
Cope
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>>50013358
Pipe down hillbilly, long barrel=velocity=flatter shooting= muh ballistics.
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>>50013226
I'm not sure if he's talking about me, but if he is, I got the fuck off of the x and got a flank above them, then put the scope on them. They weren't junkies, just a couple of retarded kids out Chris Kyle larping by shooting blindly into distant wooded hillsides across a river and two roads. I did not have enough gun, scope, or practice to have tagged them at that range had they had bad intentions. That event precipitated my getting an AR-10, so I could at least force them back into their truck and out of the valley if they were trying to shoot me, or at least keep them from getting closer and increasing their odds of getting lucky.
Thank you for coming to my TED Talk
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>>50013367
Yeah because it isnt effective at that range. At ALL
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>>50013429
Can i shoot you with mine at that range then?
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>>50013433
Yes. ill give you a full 30 round mag of 55gr.
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>>50013398
>You know a tree line isn’t a solid wall right?
Some of them might as well be. You're not seeing past 25yrds through a treeline except for maybe in winter.
>>50013413
The point is you can't shoot what you can't see.
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>>50012107
>he only has one rifle
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>>50012123
>not defending your ancestral lands with an SMLE as Queen and Country demands
Ngmi
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>>50013448
But do you want to actually hit what you can see?
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>>50013433
Youre absolutely retarded. At even 300 yards it will have about the same velocity as a .22lr. So make sure whatever youre shooting at after 300 yards isnt wearing a thick jacket. Not to mention that you will never hit anything at that range because wind will push your way too slow projectile all over the place. You clearly have never shot a gun or if you have definitely not further than 100 yards.
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>>50013461
300yrd torso hits with an AK are easy peasy.
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>>50013448
>can't hit what ya can't see
What did he mean by this?
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>>50013482
Exactly
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>>50013436
Cool say the place and the time
>>50013468
I bet you also worship 1911s
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>>50013398
Again, if this is a real thing not larp then surely in the last fucking century you can name us some for real engagements we can look at. Stuff that isn't just spray and pray either because that can be done with an sbr or bullpup too. We're talking practicality here anon, rifles have downsides along with advantages. If their upsides don't actually matter here vs a much more portable gun then it's not reasonable to mock somebody for picking something else. Doesn't mean you shouldn't if that's what you're most comfortable with but no need to make up silly theorycraft justifications either.
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>>50013448
>all clear nobody is out there lets mov.... Uhaaaggggg gurggle gurglw
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If I was in Appalachia full time, I'd probably get a keltec bullpup unironically
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>>50013541
Why is the concept of a forest so difficult to understand?
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>>50013561
Why is the concept of movement so difficult.
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>>50013558
Tennessee?
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>>50013565
Even if you could somehow could see a target through 500 yrds of forest, your bullet is going to end up in a tree trunk.
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>>50013578
No. It doesn't really matter though, interior plateau forest is interior plateau forest
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>>50013506
You can literally calculate it yourself. Even with your velocity from that picture which by the way is VERY optimistic you will have a velocity of 1100fps at 500 yards. While most .22lr has 1200-1300. Just do the fucking math you retard. Ill even give you the formula if you need it.

(Distance * -3.3) - (- Muzzle Velocity) = Velocity @ Target
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>>50013506
Cool can I shoot you with bow and arrow first? You know those arent effective at all compared to your rifle, right? So it should be no big deal, right? :^)
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>>50013506
>>50013597
Looking at it both of these measurements are complete bs. 14.5 velocities are 2900-3000 and 11.5 are usually between 2600-2700
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>>50013415
I tried to find the screencaps of your story anon to no avail. Sry I mixed up some details. Glad you upgraded to real fuckin NATO.
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>>50013688
Weird shit happens out there, man. Gotta bring enough gun. I'd probably ditch 5.56 altogether for something like 6.5 grendle if I was there full-time. Even if I didn't have the scope or skill, better chance of getting lucky and better against bear/moose/ whatever's out there
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>>50013453
Why are you so gay?
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>>50013561
Because the larper you're talking to thinks Central Park is a "forest".
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Easy fellas we are on the same side, unless you're a commie, then fuck you.
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>>50013824
Tell your dad to stop begging for my cock.
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>>50013771
>Gotta bring enough gun
But not too much, because weight. I'm not super experienced or anything, but still I've been a northern woods dude most of my life (there was a brief spell when I was a southern woods dude), primarily New England and Alaska. In 30-someodd years, I've come close to death only 5 times, and of those only once was it something a gun could have helped me with (bear). 6-8 lbs worth of carry is very significant, that's a LOT of other supplies or kit. The envelope of threats that I can't handle with a good sidearm but could with a rifle is limited and weighs (literally) against everything else. In a lot cases I don't bother with any sort of rifle at all. In others I strongly consider an SBR or even a PCC. On serious land/mountain journeys even grams can matter let alone lbs.

Obviously this all goes out the window if I'm kayaking or something, having a boat massively changes the load movement capability even with a fair amount of portage sections. Wouldn't worry about a good rifle weight then.
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>>50014201
I just bring a handgun backpacking sometimes, I'm not talking about that though. If you backpacked in, shitheads are so unlikley to as well; you shouldn't have issues away from roads with people, and animals can only be a threat up close.
I'm talking about just messing around in the Forest, be it state or national: maybe you're scouting for elk, or shed hunting, or after mushrooms, fishing, target shooting, or just bored on a saturday morning and exploring. These are the times I've been shot at, when you're in the marginal places closer to people, and closer to the types of people who shoot at people. I'm not worried about a 10-12lb rifle then since I only have stuff for the day and to not die if I'm there overnight.
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>>50014788
Ah that makes total sense, alright I agree then. Hah, clearly I've been doing too many remote week/multiweek excursions and I'm literally losing the ability to think normally, I need to reset. You're completely right just little day trips or overnighters can be a lot of fun and relaxed in terms of gear and supplies but of course then you face tons more people whereas if it's days from a road isolation naturally reduces the issue by itself. After all every other human who walked out to the middle of nowhere is facing the same physical limits you are.

Shit, I talked about mental bubbles with someone like two days ago and then ended up walking right into one of my own.
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>>50014866
No worries borther, the input and experience of somebody who actually goes out into the wilderness for days and weeks at a time is always welcome here.

That being said, multiday mountain hunts would be something I'd love to get into, and there I would pack around the 12 lb gun however I could, but I need more experience camping in the high country in the cold before that can be seriously attempted
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>>50012413
/
>>
>>50013453
I live in Ohio (or as the locals pronounce it, "Oh-Hi-Yah") and I use a Bula M14. Full size, wood stock, no optic. M14 is fantastic, fuck the haters.
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>>50012761
>He needs an optic
Just put some three-dot tritium sights on it and duct tape a flashlight to the handguard. There, rifle is modernized. Preferably a side-folder is better than an under-folder.
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>>50012543
12.5" .300 memeout AR pistol/SBR, either 1x red-dot with 3x magnifier or 1-4x VPO.
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>>50014972
Thanks man, you too. But while I'm nowhere near on the hardcore level as the serious mountaineering guys I know who debate alloy picks and drilling holes in everything to save a half gram here or there, I don't want to get in so deep I become insufferable about what I like and forget how to take more casual friends/family on fun normal people trips. Particularly younger folks since you never know, they might end up getting into it too.

>That being said, multiday mountain hunts would be something I'd love to get into, and there I would pack around the 12 lb gun however I could, but I need more experience camping in the high country in the cold before that can be seriously attempted
Yeah, those sound really great, interesting mixture of challenges and vistas. But I haven't ventured often above 12k feet and not that often for longer spells above 6-7k honestly and I respect the extra challenges up there. Would definitely want more experience on the basics myself first, though I suppose I could try to cram it by doing some more handheld trip first with pros. A lot of those suck though as well as cost because too much mismatch in skills and goals, people who just want trophies and selfies. I've got time (I hope) so think I'll just build up organically.

Good luck with all your plans. I love the wilderness, particularly the north, always happy to find others that do too.
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>>50012409
Fucking kek
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>>50013156
Oooff
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>>50012413
>yeah I totally killed the guy with my mk69420
>it totally wasn't the saw gunner or anything
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>>50012413
Maybe with mk262mod1 or some hot loaded softpoints. How much of that you got stockpiled? How likely is is that one might have to make do with what they have? How the fuck can't people handle a 16" barrel through the brush?

t. former weapons platoon from Lejeune,
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>>50012543
Nice pump action shot gun with plenty of #4 buck
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>>50013604
At 500 yards, go for it. Retard
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>>50015179
>300 black in anything longer than 8" barrel
For what purpose
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>>50015367
Just because you didn't have a choice on what you had to bring doesn't mean I don't. Not impossible by any means (pic related is 20" through successional black spruce iirc) but if I can't see 100 yards in any direction, why bother?
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>>50015367
>How the fuck can't people handle a 16" barrel through the brush?
The question isn't "can't handle" it's "is it optimal". Like, use what you want man. But OP was mocking someone rural for building an SBR and that's dumb. Real world non-theorycraft defense cases at hundreds of yards are essentially non-existent, period. PCCs, SBRs or bullpups are all worthy of consideration for pure defense in many rural areas, they aren't just for suburbs. Obviously hunting is a different use case, though if you're at all a serious hunter you should be able to close distance on most game close enough to use near anything. I mean, humans hunt with bows & arrows and crossbows, and not from 500 yards.

The best gun of all is the one you've got and are good with so if you're already into regular rifles no problem. But why shit on rural folks who get shorter ones too?
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>>50015443
Also why wear cammo innawoods with a stark black gun?
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I just grabbed my 10.5 when the chickens freaked out an hour ago.
I died.
AMA
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>>50015493
Because they're tough and utilitarian and cheap.
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>>50015443
I'm just a city slicker that's lurking, but it's that bear poop?
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>>50015532
I'm going to be mean, but make you learn.
What poop that you've seen does it look like?
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>>50013468
so somebody shot their car tail light out at a nugget fest?
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>>50015493
Not him, but might just be his standard woods clothes. I've got a few pairs of permethrin clothes and that's it, so I got them in patterns I'd always be happy with. Doesn't mean I bother with guns though, even for most hunting you don't need fancy camo pattern guns, and I'm not larping.
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>>50012527
>you'd have a very hard time arguing someone "hundreds of yards away" was an imminent threat
If society has collapsed all you need to see from hundreds of yards away is whether they’re a nigger or not lmao
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>>50015532
Deer or rabbit
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>>50015598
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>>50015515
>>50015591
yeah this is just the standard for a lot of stuff if you dont want to pay more money, tons of people want chamo patterns for woods clothes so thats the mass produced model default nothing more than that.
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>>50013597
>>50013634
https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Suppressed-5-56-SBR-Velocity-Tests-41-Factory-Loads-from-10-5-11-5-12-5-and-14-5-ALL-DONE-/16-714088/
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>>50015602
Yes, but it's too big for that. What's an animal like that but bigger?
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>>50015602
Deer fo sho. It's too big and moist looking to be rabbit poop.
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>>50015619
>>50015645
Possibly elk as well i dont know where you live anon so i just guessing from experience, definitely not a carnivore
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>>50015660
It's moose, smaller moose, but this spruce forest was full of moose sign.
>>
Where I live you wont find many places that are flat that go over 300 meters. That means focusing on a heavier caliber with a shorter package for mobility is right for me. If I lived in Utah I'd probably favor range and accuracy.
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>>50015706
makes sense
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>>50015610
That’s why it’s important to have neighbors to form roadblocks with to not let large crowds of groids make it out to your area in the first place
>>
if someone makes a good integral suppressed sbr or maybe bullpup I will totally fucking buy it
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>>50015675
I miss moose, they've gotten much rarer due to the ticks being so bad these days, fucking sucks. Wish it still got go 30-40 below zero in the winter. When I was a kid we'd go out and build forts innawoods and hunt squirrels and shit zero bug spray and no ticks ever. Now just going along a field can pick one up.
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>>50012427
Barrel length does not affect precision that way
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>>50019496
if you are shooting at 500 yards and you have a 500 yard barrel, you can be sure it makes a difference
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>>50019570
That doesn't mean anything. Barrel length affects velocity, not precision.
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>>50015706
No kidding. Just moved to NC. Apart from farmlands and roads there’s not many places you can see a continuous 300m. Between how flat it is and all the damn trees you never see anything. Fuck I miss Washington and hate this flat hell I now live in.
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>>50019570
but what if it 500 yd barrel but shooting 500m?
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>>50019916
>Fuck I miss Washington and hate this flat hell I now live in.
I almost moved out to the midwest, there was an interesting job offer. But then I actually visited and holy shit, they were like "oh yeah and there's Mount So-and-So over there" and I'm like where? Wait you can't mean that little fucking bump? Yep, that's the highest point for like 50 miles. Nope'd right out of that. Northern man is not meant to live anywhere long term where a fucking bridge or office building is the tallest thing in the area. Man is meant to climb, higher and higher, always aiming higher.
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>>50013861
The Hunted?
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>>50012107
If you are going SBR you likely have a 'Can. Try sticking a Silencer on the end of a 16+ inch rifle and see how great it is. Also this: >>50012308
>>50012669
Still would rather have a M92 or Draco SBR with a .30 cal silencer than a 16" AK.
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>>50019570
Imagine the squib
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>>50022300
>If you are going SBR you likely have a 'Can.
Yeah, that's another major point of one, and they're great innawoods on the go too. Another 7-10" on top of a full length rifle is an oof though.
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>>50023089
>use SBR innawoods
>bullets don't have enough oomph to fly through thick bushes accurately
Great idea retard, should we hunt with SBRs too?
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>>50023376
>bullets don't have enough oomph to fly through thick bushes accurately
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>>50012123
>larp as a rhodie

larping as a rhodie hasn't been cool for years, you are such a fucking poser.
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>>50023376
>should we hunt with SBRs too?

what are brush guns
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>>50023376
>>bullets don't have enough oomph to fly through thick bushes accurately
Are you retarded?

>Great idea retard, should we hunt with SBRs too?
I've killed small game with a fucking slingshot, hunted bow and arrow, ball muzzleloader, even killed a deer with a fucking AIR RIFLE, let alone even a sidearm.

If you think you can't kill an animal with a fucking SBR I suggest you test that theory but pointing one at the middle of your skull and pulling the trigger.
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>>50025904
They're what you use in the countryside if you're gonna stick to onky one gun, which is the premise of this thread, instead of an SBR

>>50025974
Ok? When you're hunting you can wait for
hours for a clear shot to present itself, good luck trying that shit when feds bearing down on your position on squad level
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>>50015591
You wear army camo you are larping. Civilians need to wear realtree or mossy oak, NOT MILITARY CAMO that is stolen valor.
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>>50026784
>You shoot any military firearm you are larping. Civilians need to shoot double barrels or revolvers , NOT MILITARY RIFLES that is stolen valor.
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>>50026784
>that is stolen valor
lmao
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>>50026784
>You wear army camo you are larping
Getting whatever is the cheapest widely available thing that does the job is the opposite of larping son

>random civi camo is stolen valor
There are no actual vets who say this. What are you doing.
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>>50026699
>>50023376
God you are a fucktard. There is no disadvantage to a SBR unless you need distance, in my case (SE US) you will never encounter a shot much over 200 yards on a target that is under 200 lbs. Which even a Mk18 or Draco could do with proper ammo selection. Yeah if you are shooting Bighorn or Elk from Ridge to Ride by all means enjoy your 26" .300 WM.
Also "Brush Busting" bullets do so more as an effect of bullet weight not velocity. In fact high velocity is a major negative in such a situtation.
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>>50028751
>Also "Brush Busting" bullets do so more as an effect of bullet weight not velocity
Which is why something in .308 or the NATO equivalent with good capacity and utility, i. e. is the perfect all around gun for innawoods shooting, be at Elk or Feds.
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>>50012107
Are you implying rural people's go-to rifle should be a long range setup? You know they still live in houses, right? You know the only time they will be alerted to an intruder is if they're already close to or in the house, right? If you see someone fucking around at the end of your 500 yard driveway, you could easily pop open your safe and get your M82 or whatever and cut the offenders in half before they ever even get into range. If they're already on top of you, there had better be a maneuverable long gun within arm's reach because they are now capable of buttfucking you within seconds.
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>>50029228
>>50029228
.308 is the worst of all worlds.its not heavy enough for brush work, it's not powerful enough to be a great long range cartridge, it doesn't have low enough recoil to be a rapid fire cartridge. it does nothing that another cartridge does better, jack of all trades master of none.
>>50031049
exactly.
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>>50029228
tf's going in with that carry handle?
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>>50012677
>>50012669
Communism, actually
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>>50031557
and they only picked it because they didn't have capitalisms superior options
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>>50015499
Where is your light switch fag?
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>>50034275
If it wasn't the short barrel that got him, it woulda been that!
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>>50015602
It's deer poop. Rabbit poop is smaller than that
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>>50034224
They actually had US made shit first...
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>>50019112
Breed opossums. They are your friend.
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>>50034895
Till they fuck with the chimkens they are



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