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To punish your insolent comments SIG has added a second forward assist and a third charging handle to their NGSW-R entry
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>>49192206
Sig is unironically the best of the NGSW program. Textron bullpups is naturally gay and a retarded design and its ejection port is literally where you hand goes. Also polymer rounds are never happening and I don’t want to hear your cope about “muh government funding” because if thats the case, then where is my ACR?
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>>49192206
Joke's on them, they're still the shittiest entry and going to lose.
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>>49192672
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>>49192650
Textron's design isn't even a bullpup and they've been developing CT ammo for 15+ years now (see LSAT program) you mong.
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>>49192672
Thats Charging Handle #4 now you dog.
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>>49192672
This. Their machine gun is great, but the ammunition is what will kill their entry. It is by far the heaviest and crappiest. The ammunition is the key.
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>>49192650
The Fed never paid significantly for the development of the ACR or any of the ACR trial rifles.
Probably for the worse.
20th century rifle trials were actually pretty shittily done.
For example the SAW trials were basically totally underfunded to the point where they only had the money to pay for 2 iterations of development for most of the guns involved and then take whatever was the best from that. Like the initial prototypes, and then one more iteration passed that.
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>>49193014
That's three forward assists, now. Nice going.
>>
I want GD to win so Beretta can dab on SIG. Also I like bullpups and I think their bullpup looks cool.
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>>49194673
They suck, grow up
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>>49194736
>grow up

I did, it sucks, I want to go back.
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>>49194673
I'd like to see the seething from armchair experts who've determined bullpups suck after listening to karl kasarda tell them they do
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>>49194736
>Angry at everyone
>Irrational hatred of bullpups
Ah yes, the manlet has arrived.
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>>49194788
Karl has transformed into the "I would like to arm a military force with MDRs" type over the years.

Shocking. It's almost like using a bullpup yourself under pressure (like competitions) will make you fall in love with the obvious benefits.
>>
>>49194673
I want them to win purely because I think their ammo will end being the cheapest once ecomies of scale catch up.
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>>49196099
CT rounds might need a new process to seat that round in but I don't see how it would be any more difficult or expensive than seating and crimping our current bottleneck cartridges. In theory Textron's CT may be the absolute cheapest due to needing even less metal and practically no pressure containment from the case.

It's the application to legacy cartridges and actions that is closed off for CT rounds. Still, how is that a problem? All new designs from the 6.8 CT onwards benefit from the cheapest possible ammo construction while True Velocity will certainly start producing polymer cases for everything that existed before the first-commercial-CT-cartridge. Everyone benefits except Sig which spent money on developing a frankenstein that was already obsolete upon introduction.
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>>49192206
sig will lose the eval but win the contract because roy cohen.
>>
Any idea when we will get the competition's result?
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>>49196181
Its supposed to be this year. Beyond that is vague.
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>>49192650
>Sig is unironically the best
>>49192672
>they're still the shittiest entry
/k/ perfectly summed up, a bunch of retards that know fuckall.
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>>49193014
8 MOA at best with new barrel on semi auto
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>>49192698
>15 years
>still no adoption
Thanks for proving him right. Poly ammo is a meme. We’ll get space dreadnoughts before we get poly ammo.
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>>49196236
we're getting plastic cased ammo, that's part of the NGSW requirements. sig just happens to be using the only version of the new round that isnt some drastic break away from conventional ammo, it's just a half plastic casing with a brass primer housing and lip for ejection
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>>49196236
We took longer to adopt breechloaders and intermediate cartridges. Its meaningless.
What isn't is that this is the first real attempt at replacing the M4 since they finished their project. Its not like they've been putting their gun in trial after trial and failing, this is the first opportunity they've had.
>>49196250
This is very wrong. SIG is a brass case body and a steel casehead.
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the GD rifle is the obvious choice, we're leaving the sandbox, and their rifle is the only one offered in green
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>>49196250
>it's just a half plastic casing with a brass primer housing and lip for ejection
sounds like you're misremembering the TV ammo, which is GD's offering with a polymer case and steel casehead
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>>49192698
>Textron's design isn't even a bullpup
they'd be better off it it were
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>>49196181
Q1 2022, so between October and December of this year.
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>>49192206

Lol
>>
I’m going to keep making fun of it so we can get a 4th HK style charging handle for HK slaps.
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>>49196236
We already have poly case you dope. I don't know what so many luddites have against cheap and abundant ammo
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>>49196236
>Poly ammo is a meme. We’ll get space dreadnoughts before we get poly ammo.
Why is that?
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>>49192206
At this point why not just have some MODULAR bullshit where the user can remove dust covers and replace them with a handle wherever they want instead? Or just make a reciprocating Handle that can swap on the left or right if you need that many forward assists. Ak fags seem to be doing okay with their charging handles.
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>>49192206
LOL at anyone thinking that Biden-Harris is actually going to spend billions of dollars on a new infantry rifle when there are countless undocumented transgender refugees who desperately need taxpayer-funded gender confirmation surgery.

M4s on Mars.
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>>49198483
Didn't ya hear, Jack? We're gonna win the 21st century!
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>>49197898
It uses a recoil absorbing bolt carrier that goes into the stock like an AR-15. It cannot do that.
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>>49198483
Biden and Harris are still driving things towards a war with China.
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>>49192206
The latest Sig marketing video straight out says that they're banking on the 'emotional' attachment the military has to the AR to help them
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>>49197814
Will these work in any rifle?
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>>49192206
>Second forward assist
So it's like that cobalt kinetics rifle from a few years back, with the forward assists that were connected to the bolt release?
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>>49197814
Will these work in any rifle or just the fancy new one?
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>>49198483
Biden is a neo-lib pax-americana warhawk just like Obama and Hillary
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>>49193014
why can't they just take the gun and adapt the polymer ammo to work with it?
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>>49199481
Yes. A big selling point of their ammo is how ez to manufacture it is, literally just a cnc machine and they manufacture ammo for any current gun.
https://youtu.be/UvjbeSum2nU
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>>49199612
Id lol if the US just adopted the ammo and kept the m4
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>>49199496
They'll work in any rifle. True Velocity's planning to release their poly ammo commercially this year
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>>49199645
In the worst case scenario of nothing being adopted fully, True Velocity is the only one that's going to come out a winner. Regardless of the results they are in a position to supply polymer case ammo in every existing caliber, so if nothing else that will be the takeaway of the NGSW
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>>49199692
Hopefully it will be super cheap
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>>49199645
Even if none of the weapon platforms win the bid; the polymer case probably will become the norm once the supply can actually meet the demand.
https://youtu.be/oPmAEostrO8
>>
>>49199692
>>49199729
fudd brass vultures at public gamelands ranges nationwide will lobby against it, their livelihood depends on it
>>
>>49199810
Oil industry will lobby for it though
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>>49199588
They (probably) can't. Though the details are unknown, they'd likely have to reengineer the TV cases and therefore the rest of the gun to get the pressures they'd need out of their short barrel. It's likely, though not confirmed, that GD can use a lower pressure cartridge thanks to their bullpup layout
>>
>>49198030
Cool. Post your magazine with poly ammo. I’ll wait.
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>>49199932
>we
By which I mean the US and australian militaries.
https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine-corps/2020/01/17/marine-corps-to-shell-out-10m-for-lightweight-polymer-50-caliber-ammunition/
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>>49199381
I guess it got them a place in the trial, but whether it was the Spear or the Mars that got the chance, the only thing the AR-slimes have going for them is that emotional attachment.
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>>49199588
There’s also something going on with the KAC LAMG chambered in the TV 6.8 military cartridge from the GD NGSW
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>>49199810
>Vastly cheaper polymer ammo appears
>Immediately gets banned by ranges financially dependent on brass once they cookup a good excuse

I hope it doesn’t happen but it wouldn’t surprise me
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>>49199282
The only reason the AR's bolt carrier goes into the stock is to make the gun sleeker by positioning the recoil spring in the stock.
Everything else is snake oil.
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>>49200161
No. Its about controlling the angle of the recoil impulse.
The AR-10 moved towards that telescoping bolt before it ever started focusing on being a slim or light weight rifle.
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>>49200221
On every single gun other than some weird ones like the Jatimatic the recoil impulse is straight backwards.
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>>49200356
Not really because of the angle of the reciprocating mass compared to the shooter.
For example, an AK has its reciprocating mass above the shooter's shoulder so it likes to lift upwards. Similar is the impulse from the short stroke piston on a FAL - above the shoulder so it brings the front of the gun upwards.
An AR or other totally straight line bolt - FG42 for example or even an M1 Garand to a degree - has a far more controllable recoil impulse because it goes right into the shooter more or less. Not totally of course as an AR will still rise up on you, but far more so than on another type of action.
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>>49198030
more plastic garbage in the ocean is what I have against it cocksucker
I reload brass shotshells with fiber wads
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>>49200459

The polymer used in ammo is pretty tough stuff, it would take a long time to break down, if it got into a waterway. The plastic patch in the ocean is from really soft plastic like plastic bags
>>
NOOO WE HAVE TO INCREASE PLASTIC POLUTION I NEED TO SAVE FOUR CENTS A ROUND NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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>>49200492
"a long time to break down" is exactly the problem guy.

>>49200493
based
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>>49200493
The future is all plastic, oil companies are already shifting production from fuel to plastic. Plastic guns, plastic ammo, plastic vehicles, plastic buildings, everything will be plastic
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>>49200419
You are confusing angle and position.
Also, it does not matter where the short stroke piston is located, above, below, right, left, all will impart the same sort of motion to the bolt.
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>>49200512
It’s actually better that it doesn’t break down. Small soft plastic particles break down enough that they get into the food chain
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>>49198483
They are gonna give the trannies super rifles to kill all you ar15 clutching faggots


I'm riden with Joe "6mm optimum magmum" biden
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>>49200514
Get ready for western sperm counts to halve again in the next 40 years from plastics
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>>49200540
The issue is that while they don't visibly break down they are breaking down in a molecular level. You can probably use a tupperware your entire life but every time you heat it up with food inside the chemicals will leech into your food.
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>>49200532
Angle to the shooter.
That pic acting as a simple example of things.
Where you put the short stroke piston does matter. The AUG is notable for having it on the side and tends to be a more easily controlled gun in all reports compared to some guns that have it along the top. You can actually see the effect of where the piston goes on the impulse the shooter feels on something like a piston AR, where you could see a live demonstration of the angled force in the 'carrier tilt' many early versions of the concept experienced.
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>>49200589
>>49200459
Every time you complain about plastic a car battery is thrown into the ocean. Think about it.
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>>49192206
I just don’t like it bros
It needs to be 6 inches shorter
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>>49200493
Switching to lighter plastic case ammo from brass will save a crap ton of fuel that we burn shipping ammo. And plastic case ammo won’t incur as much physical pollution from copper and zinc mining as brass case.

In addition, for a large organization like the army, spent case recycling is totally doable
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>>49200540
Other anon that replied to you provided a good summary.
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>>49200660
You do not understand how force vectors function.
Take a look at the angle at which everything operates in all those guns, you will notice that the angle is the same, parallel to the barrel. If the shooter has the barrel horizontal pointed forwards the angle of the moving parts, and therefore all recoil forces will also be completely horizontal.
You should figure out what the difference is between the direction and the position when it comes to vectors in general.
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>>49192206
All three designs have something going for them, but all three also have significant shortcomings that could fuck them over
>SIG
Two charging handles for no reason, the rear handle means you can't do much fancy cheek riser shit with the stock.
Also, ammo pressure necessitates a fucking steel at the base of the cartridge.
Most likely to be adopted, and most likely to get a civilian version.
>GD
Neat design, neat chode suppressor, heavy as fuck for no reason. Half-assed LMG concept, literally just a lengthened barrel
>textron
Best ammo design, worst firing mechanism, ejects out the bottom front for no fucking reason using a bizzare linkage system.

They really ought to be going for a bullet shape with a high BC, needle dick bullets do alot of tumbling in the body and preserve energy better than a fat potato bullet.
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>>49200782
>Switching to lighter plastic case ammo from brass will save a crap ton of fuel that we burn shipping ammo
I'd rather have extra CO2 emissions than plastic everywhere.
>And plastic case ammo won’t incur as much physical pollution from copper and zinc mining as brass case
Microplastics have been found in placentas.
>for a large organization like the army, spent case recycling is totally doable
They won't do it.
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>>49200858
The angles coming from the shooter are going to the origin of the force vector, and showing the 'rotation arc' from the median. I didn't want to overdo it on lines, but I didn't realize that it wasn't easily understood.
For example there is a reason that the AK was the first gun to get a slant break as it did. Or that the FAL would be given the Halbek device in Rhodesia.
This is due to where the recoil impulse comes from. With those working to reverse that impulse at the muzzle.

You can see this in action if you put on ForgottenWeapon's series on the Stoner 63. Where the host discusses the recoil feeling between the configurations and says that the MG config is strangely more easily controllable than the rifle when firing from standing. This is actually due to the difference in how the action moves. Where in the MG the piston is on the bottom of the action, and in the rifle it was on the top.
Whats happening is that the MG moved the recoil impulse more in line with the shooter, and the rifle had it along a higher axis.
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>>49200911
They already have you police your brass- this actually makes it easier, as the base is magnetic.

They ran a whole ammo program to reduce lead buildup at ranges (at first), why do you think they won't do environmental shit here?
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>>49200858
>You do not understand how force vectors function
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>>49200933
>They ran a whole ammo program to reduce lead buildup at ranges (at first), why do you think they won't do environmental shit here?
Because lead contamination threatened the closure of military ranges.
Plastic contamination won't.
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>>49200933
the base is magnetic for the sig entry too
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>>49200931
You still do not understand how vectors work.
All those vectors in your picture intersect with the shooters shoulder, not one of them produces torque (muzzle rise) present with guns like the AK or the FAL, here, let me give you the proper placement of the force vectors, you will also readily see the reason for why some guns produce more upwards torque (muzzle rise) than others.
>>49200936
Uhh yeah you posted a picture of some vectors? great job?
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>>49200459
O, that's a fine opinion. I was of the same mind but TV says their shit is biodegradable, which is bad ass if true (the composition of their polymer isn't known publicly)
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>>49200589
Hasn't this never been confirmed though? The whole BPA free craze was largely based on shakey evidence, I read
>>
>>49199969
>>49199932

Lmaoooo SIG cuck savagely mogged. Beautiful.
>>
>>49200571
Shit hole countries like India and China have been literally swimming in plastics for a generation. Africa is worse in some places. I would hardly call those places infurtile
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>>49201191
Your explanation shows you got what the picture meant, so I don't know what you're blabbing about.
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>>49201191
As specified, the angles were going to the origin points of the vectors. Obviously they're going straight from that point, but the main point is the difference from the median line.
The angle to the shoulder is the important point here.
As shown in the image, the AK's reciprocating mass has an axis above the shoulder line. This is what gives it the characteristic comparatively strong rise.
I could do the same for the FAL.
On a AR or something taking from the AR action, the line of recoil is set as directly into the shoulder as is reasonable.
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>>49201238
The whole BPA free craze was based on shaky evidence because BPA free plastics still leech out a bunch of other shit.
Even buying BPA free won't protect you.
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>>49200911
>I see shell casings everywhere I go!
Doubt.jpg
>I see them so often that pregnant mothers are eating them!
Based retard thinking that mine tailings save AMD isn't 10000x more dangerous to public health than random plastic dumb sitting on the fo floor of a shooting range for 15 minutes before being swept up.

Go back to studying for that PolySci test. Its probably going to be really difficult for someone like you
>>
>>49201238
No the craze is good. The actual problem is that it doesn't go far enough.
All plastics are a danger in that way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIvHrC_mS_M
This is the most numale person I could find to explain this, so that you know its not some conspiracy theory.
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>>49201279
Your picture was false and your understanding of force vectors incorrect.
>>49201292
That picture provided no information of any real usage, "line go at upwards angle means much recoil" does not at all correctly explain why these guns have more muzzle flip, in the picture those lines that were claimed to be force vectors created absolutely no torque which is not in line with the reality of muzzle flip existing.
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>>49201246
>we already have it!!!
“Cool, post it.”
>uh, wh-what I meant was...
Yep. Epically owned with facts and logic.

Textron shills forever coping.
>>
>>49201300
Let's put it in this way.
I'd worry about your water quality and ditch all the plastic food containers you can even if you live a thousand fucking miles away from a mine.

>>49201365
>Your picture was false and your understanding of force vectors incorrect.
Oh so you got no argument. Thanks for tapping out.
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>>49201397
>We will have space dreads before poly ammo
>Literally tens of thousands of poly rounds have been manufactured, compared to zero space dreads

Thanks for the suck, SIG bitch. Might want to wipe your chin :)
>>
>>49201434
Cool. Post some of those rounds currently in circulation. Let me see your poly ammo.
>b-but muh military!!!
Let me some of those mass produced rounds you’re talking about and not one specific prototype batch. C’mon, anon. It’s such widely popular cartridge. Surely you have some?
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>>49201365
The rise is created by the difference between where your shoulder is to absorb the recoil and the recoil vector.
As the vector is trying to transmit the recoil to a place over your should and you holding the gun and acting as a resistance to its motion causes it to pivot.
The torque that lifts the barrel is created by that difference in angle between the force vector and where force absorption area is.
In a autoloader a lot of the recoil energy is stored in the reciprocating mass of the action.

For a comparison the interest in lower and lower bore axes for pistols is built around this same factor.
Where the recoil gets pushed into the hand of the user itself, more than to somewhere above it.
The Chiappa doesn't look that way just for giggles and shits, the idea is to have the recoil of the action be as straight into the user as possible.
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>>49201484
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/01/17/marines-get-new-lightweight-polymer-ammo-ma-deuce-machine-gun.html
Marine Corps has already been using it in .50BMG for ~2 years.
>>
>>49200884
>heavy as fuck for no reason.
how heavy?
>>
>>49201397
Don't presume to put words in my mouth luddite. I used the proverbial form of we like everyone's using the proverbial form of "we" "ours" "theirs" "mine" etc. The point was that you said poly is never going to happen but it happened awhile ago and it's already in use.weather any of us nobody's personally own a stock pile of it is irrelevant to that point
>>
>>49201610
The GD rifle weighs less than 10 pounds and the GD SAW weighs less than 11 pounds according to this article

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/army-next-generation-squad-weapon-photos/?amp=1

By contrast, the Textron rifle, without suppressor, weighs less than 8 pounds. Textron mentioned the weight in one of the demo videos. The Textron SAW weighs less than 11 pounds.

I don’t know the stats for SIG’s rifle and SAW
>>
>>49201758
I don’t know if the GD rifle is being weighed with or without suppressor though
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>>49201292
AK recoil has much more to do with its long stroke piston then the angle. The VZ 58 for example has much less muzzle rise then the AK but has the same angle.
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>>49200589
and those particles are still chemically inert, if they reacted they wouldn't last so long retard, also heating up a plastic polymer doesn't do shit its cooling them down that makes it more fragile
>>
>>49201731
>>49201758
Thats essentially just them saying that they've met the requirement. SIG says the same thing in that article as did Textron in other publications even though they later confirmed that the version they had at the time (pic related) was actually sub 8lbs without the suppressor.
I'm not saying it mean that it absolutely isn't 10lbs just that its entirely possible they're being non-specific.
>>
>>49201927
>chemically inert
>readily leech out if you look at them the wrong way
>>
>>49201557
Right, because in this picture the vector is going over the shooters shoulder...
>>49200660
>>
>>49201996
>CO2
>helium
>nitrogen
are these not chemically inert because they don't have strong bonds? you really are a special kind of retarded
>>
All these fucking nerds on a ‘muh pinnacle of engineering’ thread and not one of you faggots has posted the math. Do some equations, show your work, post it, and tell the other anon to suck your dick. Otherwise, stfu you vapid fatasses and put your dickbeaters to another pointless, retarded, endeavor.
Go back to weekendgunnit you fuckin refugees
>>
>>49202233
Math on what? What do you want to see?
>>
>>49202070
Literally what the fuck are you talking about?
Plastics and their effect on your endocrine system are known.
>>
>>49201578
>SIGshill silence after this post
>>
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>>49201578
>Marine Corps has already been using it in .50BMG for ~2 years.
>Article literally says that it wouldn't face field testing until 2022
Sure thing, polymerfag. Pic unrelated
>>
>>49203425
Cope and seethe, chinaman
>>
>>49202051
Dude just stop you're fucking clueless
>>
>>49202376
>reeee trust the science
fucking die already
>>
>>49200884
>no reason
Longer barrel? It's a bullpup rifle and not a carbine like the others. If the other two turn out to be nonviable due to barrel erosion then the long barrel is the fallback option, which will not be a big problem since bullpup and rearward weight distribution making those few extra pounds not be noticeable.
>>
>>49200884
>heavy as fuck for no reason

It has 8 more inches of 150k psi barrel retard
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NGSW more like ngmi lmao
>>
I don't give a fuck about the NGSW because it is clearly a repeat of the mistakes made in buying the M14. The guys firing it in the promotional videos are getting punished by the recoil and you can carry way less ammo.

All that said the ammo development is neat, and I'd love to see polymer ammo, especially pistol ammo because it's lower pressure.
>>
>>49201252
Africa has far less plastics and if you have genitals as small and feminized as those of a China man or a pajeet you should kill yourself
>>
>>49204982
I can hear the forend rattling from here
>>
>>49201578
>>49203425
> Marine Corps has been using it for 2 years
> Except it won't even be tested until 2022
Lmfao, christ, read your own articles
>>
>>49200493
Depending on the specific type of polymer they use, the cases can be fully biodegradable, fully recyclable or both. Given their expected use in a military context they will almost certainly be recyclable for those sweet, sweet EOL cost savings and probably degrade under specific conditions to make disposal easier. Plastic has come a loooooong way since the early 2000's
>>
>>49192206
When can I buy one? I’ve got money to spend on that shit
>>
>>49199645
I can see it happening in my minds eye, clear as day
>>
>>49203776
>>49206319
Not him, but if you read it, you'd realize that we are using it. We've been training with it and seeing how it handles at small scales.
It just doesn't go out to the fleet where it nominally could be in combat. Proper familiarity training starts in a few months, for a proper field test next year.
Still, you're not wrong that it isn't the winning argument he thought it was. There's been no adoption and there probably won't be a decision until after NGSW either.
>>
>>49192206
stahp
plz stahp
>>
>>49206218
>Africa has far less plastics

Uh what? There’s tons of plastic in Africa. In a lot of slums, e.g in Kenya, the main way people shit is into a plastic bag (google ‘Flying toilet’)
>>
>>49203799
You've got no idea how force vectors work, I am an engineer, I know.
>>
So if the NSFW rifles were commercially available, which one would you get /k/?
>>
>>49200933
>>49200995
all three have steel in em, the textron one has a steel insert to fit a standard primer cup
>>
>>49199782
>Even if none of the weapon platforms win the bid; the polymer case probably will become the norm once the supply can actually meet the demand.
Now if only they would also standardize steel core ammunition, for pollution control and cost reduction purposes
steel core ammo is unironically the solution to liberals whining about lead/toxic pollution
>>
>>49200492
its probably a really dense polymer that sinks
>>
>>49208504
I don’t think liberals are the reason steel ammo isn’t more common. It’s range owners banning it because they’re dependent on selling brass
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>>49192206
>no bottom charge handle for convenient foot operation
>no backup backup forward assist behind grip
Ngmi
>>
>>49208461
Textron all the way.
>>
>>49208531
I know they exist but ive never been to a range that didnt allow steel cased ammo, have seen some that didnt allow steel core ammo but shot it anyway
Those kinds of range owners need to go out of business, you can use shredded rubber backstops that prevent any richochets or sparks even on indoor ranges and the risk of detonation from powder buildup is really more of an issue with shotshells and humidity control
>>
>>49208461
Not the bullpup thats for sure, shame because their ammo is the best
>>
>>49208531
He said steel core not case. Though some fudd range owners might ban it for potential property damage.
>>
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>>49206237
>tfw you realize Mav 88's are $300 guns now
>>
>>49208531
steel core is banned because you just know some fuck-tard is gonna bring green tips to shoot at steel. The combloc shit is OK for steel targets.
t.ard who wipes off the green tip to shoot green tips at paper at fudd range
>>
>>49208590
cause there's always the tard who brings green tips to shoot at steel.
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>>49192650
Retard, total retard.
>>
>>49208534
Should just make the grip itself another charging handle.
And even a forward assist.
Pump the 'handle' up and down a few times to help force the bolt closed.
>>
>>49196127
To be fair SIG’s retarded 80,000 psi necked down .308 won’t be chambered in any legacy guns whatsoever, plus it’s a gay 2 piece case and easily the most expensive round of the bunch.
>>
>>49196236
Yep this sure does look like some esoteric arcane space magic yessir.
>>
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The GD does look pretty bulky in some pics, and much lighter in others, kinda odd. Maybe this dude is just tiny
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>>49194673
*can dab on Sig again
also so that all the internet experts can trip all over themselves backpedaling on the bullpup question
>>
>>49192698
>developing CT ammo for 15+ years now
Indeed.
Polymer caseless ammo adoption won't happen with any military on Earth. Especially in hot and humid environment. Fact.
>>
>>49193014
Sig's ammunition is the most realistic entry, you honestly think Salt Lake is just gonna retool an entire line to crank out that polymer telescoping shit? Maybe in 30 years when 3d printers are better.
>>
>>49203799
Not him but you're the one who doesn't understand what he's talking about.
>>
>>49209013
Why would a humid environment cause an issue here?
>>
>>49209022
>You honestly think Salt Lake is just gonna retool an entire line to crank out that polymer telescoping shit?

Uh, yeah. They'd still have to retool to make Sig's entry. The cartridge forming machines don't spit out brass cartridges minus the base. And they don't have the steel base making machines. Or the washer making machines. Or the machine to connect the body and the base of the cartridge together

You still have to retool for Sig's ammo, but both TV and Textron's polymer ammo is much cheaper per unit
>>
>>49209022
You mean 30 years ago when injection molding got better?
>>
>>49192206
Then in the next version they will remove the tbar charging handle.
>>
>>49199692
are the cases reusable/reloadable? hate to see plastic go to waste
>>
>>49209013
>Polymer caseless ammo adoption won't happen with any military on Earth.
Whew, good thing it's not caseless then.
>>
>>49209700
The military doesn't reload brass anyways, its not a concern.
>>
>>49208461
Textron unironically looks like some XCOM2 shit.
>>
>>49209726
I am noguns and the Textron and SIG look damn near identical to me. What should I be looking for?
>>
>>49192650
>>49192672
the duality of man
>>
>>49209710
>True Velocity's planning to release their poly ammo commercially this year
>>
>>49209700
You'd have to reanneal them.
But theoretically its possible.
>>
>>49209737
>2 pin forged alu upper & lower vs 3 pin extruded upper & poly lower
>pseudo AR buffer tube styled folding & collapsing stock vs sliding stock w/ short receiver extension
>T handle & side charging w/ forward assist vs side charging & clearing handle
>cut through AR ambi bolt stop vs ACR/XCR style bolt stop
>Textron only, extended lower receiver to encase the longer action & ejection parts, battery recess in stock toe, not sure where it goes on the Sig
>Sig has slightly higher height over bore
>Textron has less accessible forearm attachment space
>>
>>49192672
No 100% sig will win.
>>
>>49209860
according to their FAQs:
https://www.tvammo.com/faq
>Is your composite ammunition reloadable?
>No. True Velocity ammunition is not designed to be reloaded using commercially available reloading equipment. We do not recommend attempting to reload our cartridge cases.
big lame
>>
>>49210150
Yeah, but it's literally plastic. You pick it up, melt it down, and it presses you a new one.
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>>49210254
yeah, I'm hopeful such equipment would be made available to the consoomer
>>
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>>49210254
It's probably going to so cheap that reloading wouldn't be worth the time- the Army already gets brass m855a1 for around 50 cpr, this'll be cheaper than that for sure because both the the cost of brass and the very large brass forming machines is reduced.
>>
>>49209946
Lol no.
>>
>>49210328
For the civilian shooting market, I wonder how costs will compare to steel case ammo. It sounds like this will be higher quality stuff than most steel case.
>>
>>49192650
sig didn't even actually meet the contract requirementss
>>
>>49210150
>using commercially available reloading equipment

We need to make a new protocol and equipment for polymer case but I think it’s probably possible. If the case is tough enough to withstand one firing, I think it’s possible to heat treat it to do it again
>>
>>49210397
Might be, not sure how it will play differently from brass. A lot of high pressure bottlenecked brass cases can only be reloaded so many times.
>>
>>49199729
Lead, brass and powder's not the bottle neck in the ammo shortage, it's primers. There's like three or four factories in the whole US that makes them.
>>
>>49210328
Reloading isn't just for the cost of it.
>>
>>49210913
Reloading for "self sufficiency" doesn't exist because you rely heavily on factories producing primers and powder. Loading for accuracy doesn't require reuse of cases and will be easily supplanted by polymer cases being so cheap that long range freaks can just use a fresh case for each.
>>
>>49208968
thats a plastic mock up made for shot show.
>>
>>49192650
>>49192672
The duality of man.
>>
>>49192206
Bought one
>>
>>49192650
>its the best entry, and that's a good thing
all three entries are fucking shit for all of the reasons that have been already been discussed here and elsewhere
sig will win through bribes and nepotism and the whole project will be shelved and forgotten about for twenty years
deal with it
>>
>>49211763
How is it?
>>
>>49211763
>keymod
>>
>>49192206
Sig haters in full cope mode
>>
>>49192988
kekd and checkd
>>
>>49201205
Sounds like bullshit, though.
>>49201252
You're right, their genetic pools are absolutely fantastic!
>>
>>49206899
they are too stupid to actually use it to drink and eat out of constantly, its just trash

Also we in the west have far more birth control
>>
>>49210254
If it's a thermoset plastic then no unfortunately
>>
>>49212982
You should still be able to recycle it for fairly cheap
>>
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>>49208968
AAAAAAHHHHHHH PLEASE WIN SO WE CAN GET UNSC FURNITURE
>>
>>49211800
>sig will win through bribes and nepotism
Classic sign of someone who's only been conscious of defense procurement since the m17 and does not realize that sig is waaaay smaller than the competition
>>
>>49208461
Whichever one got adopted.

I'd love to get the GD one even if lost, but who knows if the ammo would be available if it doesn't win.
>>
>>49214917
Ya, but "recycling" isn't exactly what you would call it. For the longest time, russia used shredded bakelite as a slag conditioner in their steel mills. You can't melt it down and reuse it for more thermoset plastic, but it can be used for more mundane purposes
>>
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what's the deal with this come to market regardless of program outcome????
want one
>>
>>49209013
Retard. 1) Not caseless 2) Even caseless doesn't care about humidity as long as you aren't using compressed nitrocellulose like its the 1970's.
>>
>>49217119
sig's yes, GD maybe, fat chance on textron's
>>
>>49209022
Hey anon, guess who's running Lake City now. And guess who is also directly supporting Textron's NGSW bid.
Also fuck, SIG's crap also need retooling and you could fit the entire production line for either poly case entrant literally hundreds of times over in just their storage warehouses, let along the hundreds of other buildings on site.
>>
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>>49208461
Textron's easily. I really want to fuck around with CT. Had a machining project sitting in the back of my mind since I first learned about ACR and having a production rifle and ammo would let me actually implement it.
>>49211209
NAYRT
>Loading for accuracy doesn't require reuse of cases and will be easily supplanted by polymer cases being so cheap that long range freaks can just use a fresh case for each.
That assumes you can load it all though. It might be that you can't handload at all, and the bullet has to be seated during molding. If that is the case, then you're stuck using factory ammo (which is less than ideal even if their claim to better accuracy due to consistency is true) or sticking with brass.
Not that it matters, brass isn't going anywhere even if polymer becomes popular.



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