Hey about to buy a sig m400 ar-15 rifle. Can someone explain to me what this whole legality deal is with shoulder brace thing is? Apperantly the ATF did something retarded again and banned it but unbanned it and also made a big deal out of braces for the pistol version.
>>48420611At this point a person could make a very good argument of ignorance if they used a brace. Most people could prove that any given pistol was in compliance at some point in its life. This would be a cluster in court because the atf decisions on the matter change so rapidly.
>>48420611As I see it there are basically three tiers of braces:The original braces made by SB tactical, as well as any other brace made by a company with a letter from the ATF saying they are braces and not stocks, are probably ok for now, although the ATF could do another reversal and ban these too.Some brace manufacturers/manufacturers of things with integrated braces have not sought out approval from the ATF first as there is no such requirement. These I would say are in a greyer area right now, because of the third tier; at any time, the ATF could review a sample and declare one of these to be a stock, not a brace.The final tier are braces which the ATF has decided are no longer legally braces and are now considered stocks. In this list are the Honey Badger pistol brace and more recently certain micro ronis.
>>48420611Basically every commercially available AR pistol brace is "legal" (i.e. not explicitly illegal) on its own. The ATF has been lukewarm and noncommittal on this for several years but the current reading of the regulations is that a braced pistol won't get you sent to jail even if you shoulder it, however certain manufacturers may have accidentally produced SBRs when they meant to make pistols. This is because the ATF now holds that if a brace is a bit too similar to a stock for their liking, or if the gun it goes on is unsuitably impractical to shoot one-handed, then in their view, it is "holistically" (based on many different and unclear criteria) a rifle, even retroactive to it being sold as a pistol. That doesn't affect you as the end user though, because you're not turning over shit.
>>48422612I mean I saw what happened at Waco. That said the ATF is gay as fuck.
>>48421303>make a very good argument of ignoranceNo such thing with gun laws. It's specifically written that they can fuck you wether or not you knew you were doing anything illegal.
>>48421303>This would be a cluster in court because the atf decisions on the matter change so rapidly.Are these even laws that are changing, or ATF "edicts" or guidelines of some sort?
build whatever you want and if they come for you, fucking shoot them
>>48423876>a quarter of one of the most populous cities in Europe arrested.Not saying Stalin wasn't the most brutal motherfucker to ever live, but this guy's full of shit.
>>48423824I think it goes more like this: the federal government declares speeding is illegal and leaves the limit to a government bureau to decide.
>>48420611If you buy a rifle it doesn't matter. Your barrel is longer than 16" and your OAL is longer than 26" even with a bare buffer tube. You can put whatever you want on it.If you buy an AR with a barrel shorter than 16" and you do not have an SBR or AOW stamp then the ATF says you cannot put a stock on it. Currently the ATF does not consider some pistol braces to be stocks. The original Sig brace was first classified as not a stock, then reclassified as a stock. Some braces (SBM4, Tailhook) were specifically examined by the ATF and given letters saying they are not stocks. Other braces (SBA3) have been submitted to the ATF for examination but now the ATF refuses to examine them or issue any clear guidance, these are assumed to be legal for now.
>>48420611>Legality ofStopped reading there. Who gives a fuck do whatever you want, or don't, you fucking pussy
>>48421303>argument of ignoranceThis isn't your community college spanish class retard, nobody cares what you believed.
>>48424053this. it only matters if someone finds out.
>>48424053not everyone is a criminal like you faggot
>>48425514>molon labe!!!!!>unless you get 51% of people to vote for itFaggot
>>48425514Ever call in sick for work when you're not sick? You are now a criminal because that's wire fraud.
>>48422609This is the gist of it. Several of the braces being sold with factory pistols, attached in such a way that when using it as a brace, wrapped around your arm, you really can't use the gun. The main one I heard about was a 12 gauge saiga-type gun where the brace was angled down to let you line up the sights while shouldering, but when using it as a brace, the gun pointed downward.
>>48420611get with the times, no one cares about what the ATF thinks anymore
>>48424030The ATF has stopped classifying a brace on its own as a stock/not a stock, because how it is installed matters. They only classify a firearm as SBR/Not an SBR when all parts are assembled.