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But this is what peak handgun performance looks like. Why is it that most people go through handguns like tissue paper until they ultimately decide that perfection already existed?
>inb4 glock shill
I like shooting other handguns. I don't even own a 19 currently. I carry a Gen 5 17 MOS. But I feel like there are phases everyone goes through. First phase is Glock is a great first handgun, then you suck at shooting it and you think it isn't gucci enough, then you try everything else and realize you preferred your Glock all along. And the final stage is Glock shill where you realize you can make 100 yard shots on 10 inch gongs with a factory 19 and the pistol has literally never let you down. For me, this period took the better part of a decade. But I think a lot of oldfags will agree with me. Glock kind of is Perfection™
>>
>>47345471
But they're boring
>>
>>47345471
Lmao fuck Block. Sold my 17 and 26 years ago and never looked back, several better manufacturers out there.
>>
Glock is dope but Walther ppq is just as good imo
>>
There's nothing special about Glocks anymore. This isn't the 90s when no one else had figured out how to make a good polymer frame striker fire pistol yet. These days, when it comes to handguns, we are spoiled with choice. Glocks are aggressively mediocre.
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tell me are the stories about glocks lasting 100k+ rounds true? do other pistols have the same durability?
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>>47345630
>do other pistols have the same durability?
Yep. There's an articles on the P30 going 90k, a USP45 going +320,000k that Federal uses to test their .45 ammo etc
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>>47345522
>>
>>47345522
And I'm okay wiith that :). >
>47345629
You'll cycle around senpai
>>47345658
There are more durable handguns as far as round count for sure. But nobody puts 300k rounds through a handgun.
>>47345587
Walthers are decent but have a shitload of muzzle flip.
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>>47345471
>peak handgun performance
But anon, that's not a Springfield XD in the picture
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>>47345471
This is true. I’ve bought and sold over 50 handguns. I never sold my Glocks or HKs. Strange coincidence? The haters would say so.
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>>47345471
>peak handgun performance
>fails routinely when actually used in self defense because anything less than picture perfect form makes it choke
No
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zT-7zhIxl6Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YABUAqepj20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGnhlXSGdYM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GiEY4Okxwk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJGlVIW9Zqc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXpYqjKd8cE
>>
>>47346863
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGnhlXSGdYM
what slide is that?
>>
>>47346863
think its due to the weird grip angle?
>>
>>47345629
I think it's funny that in my early days of being involved in the gun community, people always debated Glock vs 1911, with the 1911fags always trying to justify why their ancient gun is still relevant in a market of superior options. Now the Glock occupies the exact same place. the 40-50 year old trainers swear by it because it's what they used through their whole career and people use its long track record as evidence of its perceived superiority. I will say that the Glock is a better fighting handgun than the 1911, but now it's getting to be an icon of a bygone era, with plenty of other guns offering more options at the same or lower price. And part of the reason Glock is still relevant, similarly to the 1911, is its massive aftermarket support.

Its an interesting cycle, with a new pistol showing up, then everyone tries to do what it does but better, and after a while they succeed. It's legacy can be seen in the designs of the new stuff, but the original gun is fading away in the holsters of aging shooters.
>>47347325
It's probably because cops don't maintain their guns for shit
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>>47346863
Yes but it's still the most reliable recoil operated pistol in the world.
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>>47345471

Yeah, I appreciate the stock wall and trigger break more so than lighter striker springs and connectors . Besides changing the stock sights I think a slight undercut is the best improvement it needs.
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>>47347432
Except glock is still every bit as capable as any other handgun on the market you faggot. It in no way is like comparing a 40 ounce steel 7 shot 45 to a 20 ounce 17 shot 9mm. Never will be. Keep your retarded boomer opinions to yourself.
>>47347432
Its because they don't train and they limp wrist. Period. They really have no business carrying a firearm or shooting anything. Cops should have to prove competency with their firearm beyond a qualification anyone who picked up a firearm that day for the first time can pass.
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>>47345471
G19 is best striker, personally I prefer the 92 with 18 round flush fit mecgars and G decocker
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Glock owners
>A G17 made it over 750,000 rounds with only a single parts package upgrade.
Glock haters
>I have a vagina
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>>47350642
You have sauce on 750k?
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lol peak

No its mediocre performance from a mediocre but serviceable firearm

Like a more advanced hi point

It'll get the job done but there are far better options.
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>>47350656
I think Kelly McCann made the claim.
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>>47347455
reliable yes

Most or more reliable?

Don't be a dumbass

A gun is either reliable or its not.

Most high quality guns are reliable.
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>>47350581
Damn you got defensive in a hurry about your favorite gun, just like old 1911 owners do. Thanks for proving me right.
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>>47350683
You have no proof of your opinion you're just a hater and always will be. Fucking shit for brains boomer
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>>47350677
>A gun is either reliable or its not.
So there are not different levels of reliability based on use? So what is considered reliable for CC civilian use is the same as what is considered reliable for military use in combat? Thanks I did not know that.
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>>47345471
Not going to hate on Glock too much because I know it's a decent handgun... But the claim that it's "perfection" or "peak" is just ridiculous fanboy faggotry. Maybe it's perfection to you if you have never shot something with a good trigger, your hands are shaped like crescent wrenches, or all you care about is having the cheapest mags and holsters, but there are plenty of better options.

Pic related for example had a couple teething issues, but the latest ones match the Glock's reliability and add far superior ergos, sights and triggers out of the box for like $100 less. Plus they fit most Glock holsters.
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>>47350677
ALL guns will have some malfunctions.

Is it one failure out of a hundred thousand rounds?
One out of a million?
One out of ten million?
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>>47350749
Lol at the CZ far trying to put that garbage into the conversation.
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>>47350749
CZ is so bad that tangfolio makes better versions of the CZ lineup than CZ does.
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>>47350749
Lmao fucking nope. I've definitely owned a p10c and its nowhere near as good as a glock. The trigger isn't even better. You just can't get good and want to blame it on something.
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Why is every faggot offloading their custom gucci-glocks all over every classifieds sight?
Like holy shit can I just buy a normal fucking Glock that doesn’t come with $700 worth of upgrades, an RMR, a suppressor, an x300u and a kiss from Jesus Christ himself?
Why are glockfags like this?
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>>47350772
>>47350792
>t. has never owned a CZ in his life
The glockfag fears the P-10Chad
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>>47350772
>>47350792
>>47350807
lmao the fanboy seethe flows at the slightest mention of a gun that threatens the dominance of Gaston's 1970s brick
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>>47350816
The p10. Lets make a plastic gun as heavy as a steel framed gun. CZ is retarded.
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>>47350749
Only one I have fired was total trash, I'd be interested in a full size metal frame or maybe a rami but otherwise fuck CZ. P-10 is just... awful.
As far as Glocks, love my G19 but it's not my favorite handgun I own. I don't think they are the be all end all OR perfection, but it's a damn good gun and I'd trust it as a concealed carry weapon which is heavy praise. Pretty ubiquitous too which wins more points.
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>>47350749
If you're going to get a CZ, why not get something with a hammer? Same thing with HK and the VP9. I've never fallen into the striker-fired pistol craze, so to me seems weird that people have been falling over themselves to get these brand new offerings. Both HK and CZ offer some of the best, most proven pistol designs in the word, but those have taken a back seat to the brand new stuff just because they're not striker fired. I don't get the hype.
>>
M&P 2.0 is better and typically 100 dollars cheaper.
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>>47350856
Compare the chamber and barrel of a P-10C to that of a G19. There’s a reason for the weight, and it’s also the reason why the P-10C has far less muzzle flip and can handle hot loads without exploding in your hand.
>>
My shield will decimate the block
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>>47350868
What didn’t you like about it? I ask because I thought I hated all striker fired handguns until I tried the P-10C. It just felt worlds better to me and I was much more accurate with it.
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>>47350893
Why don't you show us the difference so whe can laugh at how many OUNCES more the CZ weighs over the glock 19.
Its a fail. The only reason to be polymer is weight reduction. And the CZ does not do that.
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>>47345522
>But they're boring
>goes bang every time
Like most tools, they’re there to do a job.
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>>47350942
Yes Gaston, it turns out making your sights out of LEGO plastic and having a paper-thin chamber does shave off some weight, good job!
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>>47350877
I have always typically preferred hammer fired guns as well. I shot the P-10C with very low expectations as I never liked striker guns, but I was so impressed with how it handled that I got one in spite of myself. I bring it up in this thread because it makes the Glock fanboys seethe that something as good or better than their sacred cow exists for significantly cheaper.
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>>47350928
Small issues were I didn't like the way it fit in my hand and just didn't shoot it well.
The real problem is that I had more malfunctions in 200 rounds than my P30L has had in 2000 rounds, no exaggeration. Tried different mags and ammo but only had one actual p10-c to try so couldnt unfuck whatever was wrong with the gun or what the owner had done/not done to it.
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>>47345471
> the best special forces and a huge amount of militaries use it
> overwhelming law enforcement adoption
> multiple world titles have been won by the Glock 34 with legends like Taran butler and bob Vogel using it to dominate competitions, very popular competition gun
> huge civilian use
> criminals like them too
> Alaskan guides swear by the Glock 20

It’s userbase is just overwhelming in every single fucking sector. And that says enough about it’s status as the gold standard of handguns. It’s the best handgun ever made.
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>>47345471
Youre wrong, shill... This is peak handgun performance...
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>>47345471
Nice WWI cartridge.
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>>47351082
Best handgun ever? Why cant they make a functioning .22?
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>>47350816
I've owned a p10c, a p01, and currently own a pcr. Cz's are alright, but they're not superior to glock and never will be.
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>>47350814
My G19 is my ccw and is completely stock
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>>47351111
Nice quads
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>>47351066
Your opinion sucks. Glock guys don't need to seethe cause we already know we have the best handgun. And yes I've owned a p10c. Maybe when you finally get good enough you'll understand.
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>>47351114
22 is a completely different animal that functions badly in almost every attempt at making a “copy” of a centerfire design. The cartridge generally has to be completely designed around to be decent. Ie ruger mk 4, 10/22, etc. trying to scale down a centerfire rifle or pistol design to 22 almost never ends well. The Glock design isn’t meant for 22. Your only real option for a genuinely reliable 22 pistol is a ruger mk4 or browning buck mark type
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>>47345471
Except it’s Not
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>>47351168
>anyone who doesn't like using my obsolete minecraft block of a handgun just isn't good at shooting
Now this is coping
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>>47351016
>I looked up the chamber and barrel specs and realized the CZ p-shit is very close to the G19 specs and can not explain the ounces of extra weight the CZ has so....DISTRACTION
>>
Stupid thread
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>>47351263
lmao look again faggot, there's a reason the "glocknade" meme exists
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The PPQ, P10C, M&P M2.0, APX, and like 4 other handguns are better than glocks in every way other than aftermarket.
Prove me wrong, you can't.
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>>47351263
>>47351399
The reason is that glocknades do not have full case support, supporting Gaston's obsession with jewing you by using fewer raw materials for the ultimate featherweight toy gun and still overcharging you
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>>47351406
Based and realitypilled. I'm not even a CZ fanboy, the H&K and the M&P absolutely BTFO the glock too
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>>47351399
You parade ignorance with pride
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>>47351435
>y-you're ignorant
Elaborate, O wise and powerful Glock fanboy. Surely Gaston's honor demands that you show these heathens the light
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i know this thread was made specifically to start shit with CZ fags again, but i have to ask, why the obsession?
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>>47351489
Never play chess with a pigion.
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>>47351517
So only the Sig, Steyr, Springfield, and HK are any good.
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I was reading about the SIG P320 recently, and I really like the concept, but does anyone have any thoughts on how it compares to a Glock?
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>>47346863
Glocks truly are the most overrated guns ever.
This thread is pure Glocktard cope.
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>>47345471
You got that backwards chief, Glock is what people who don't know what the fuck they're doing buy out of complete ignorance, eventually selling them to buy actually nice guns once they know what makes guns good.
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The USP is the glock's younger rival that only had to try once to get it right.
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>>47351673
I like that you are openly retarded.
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>>47352733
Glocks are just a basic tool kind of gun. Many experts who shoot for a living like them because they are simple and easy to fix in comparison to guns which may be better to shoot but aren't as easily maintained.
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>>47351241
ignore him. He's trying to use the its a gun argument but eventually you outshoot every gun with time if you get good enough and then you get picky on comfortability. Glocks feel weird to grip period and always aim so low with that grip angle. The p10 series and Mand P series are way better imo.
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>>47352697
High bore axis but other than that they're pretty good. Probably the only other striker gun I'd carry.
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>>47352963
Oh so you're a handlet and a faggot. Its a gun bro what do you care what it feels like. I'll outshoot anyone in this thread with a factory 19.
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>>47352737
>USP 9>USP 9 Compact>P2000>P30>VP9>VP9 B


Seems like they're still trying to get it right.
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>>47352897
Cops shoot them because their department forces them to, if they shoot at all. Competition shooters shoot them because they're sponsored to, no comp shooter wants a gun that doesn't drop mags free. No expert makes a decision to shoot a Glock because why the fuck would you with a thousand videos of them malfunctioning in ideal conditions, thousands of examples of them exploding, definite proof their triggers are shit compared to the competition.

Yeah Glocks are basic, so are M&Ps APXs P320s or whatever other basic plastic gun you can think of. No reason to buy a Glock and I don't even hate them they are just so insanely boring and not as reliable as people meme them to be.
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>>47351111
Nice squirrel cartridge.
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>>47351103
t. Pajeet
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>>47353011
Almost all special forces in the world choose glocks, even if their country's military issues something else like sig or hk because they're the most reliable pistols in the world.
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>>47351399
except every single fucking "glocknade" has been caused by reloads or hotloads or some retard using a .40 in a 9mm.
if they were as prone to killing you as you think, they would've faced numerous class-action lawsuits over the years
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>>47351006

Most tools don't go bang and maim your hand.
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>>47352737
Ironic considering you probably got that USP fawty from a police department that replaced it with a glock.
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>>47347432
>Its an interesting cycle, with a new pistol showing up, then everyone tries to do what it does but better, and after a while they succeed.

That's innovation for ya. Look how far we've innovated since powder pistols.
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>>47353025
The right 5.7x28mm ammunition, like Vanguard Black Fang shown there, does more damage to flesh than any available hollow point ammunition in 9mm, .40sw, .45acp, or 10mm. Underwood XD "screwdriver" ammo in 10mm and 45 Super did manage to surpass it, but even the XD bullets couldn't beat 5.7x28mm in 9mm or 40sw loads. I'd say "better than literally all hollow points" is pretty great performance.

Studies from Viper Weapons of Texas prove this as fact.
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>>47353476
Oh, forgot to include .357 Sig. Another one like 10mm and 45 that couldn't even come close to the performance of Vanguard's 5.7x28mm with hollow points, but did do better with Underwood XD ammo.
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>>47350581
Behold, glock competency
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>>47345471
I can hit 10" gongs at 100 yards with my Makarov lmao get outta here with your basic bitch litmus test
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>>47351516
Because they are an existential threat and infringe on their religion, obviously
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>>47353151
>using a .40 in a 9mm
Now this is what i call an act of desperation. It deserves some admiration how glockfags still strive to be retarded despite overwhelming evidence and support for overcoming their condition.
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>>47353170
Plenty of superior things are replaced by newer, "better" (shittier) things
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>>47345471
glocks are actually bottom tier, but nice try you faggot glock shill. even hi-points are better, and that's just shameful.
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>>47350766
okay, sure, my M&P had a malfunction, but when i say that, it's not what it sounds like, it was because i bought very cheapo ammo, and the primer was defective. glocks on the other hand are known for malfunctions in the most important times. see, the issue here is, can you trust a glock to go "bang" when you need it? no? then it's not a good gun, period.
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>>47350885
actually, $200 cheaper, i bought mine for under $400, most glocks sell at $600+

>>47351006
but glocks are known for not going "bang" when you need them, hi-points have better reliability and quality, which shows you how shitty glocks really are.

>>47351082
military and police got it for a major discount, making it the cheapest option. and then it got famous because military and police use it, does this mean it's quality? or just cheap?
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>>47352978
X
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>>47354379
Glock are not known for that. They're known for better reliability than any other handgun. The few videos of malfunctions that exist are because their marketshare is absurd. If you have 50x the number of Glocks on the market but only 5x the number of malfunctions total, they're 10x more reliable than any other gun.
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>>47345471
You guys claim this all the time but then go into a laundry list of aftermarket parts that amount to replacing everything short of the frame.
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>>47353151
I understand that the glocknade incidents happened with atypical ammo. My entire point is that if you use a solid, overbuilt gun like a P-10Chad you simply don't have to worry about that whole problem as much. You can experiment with making your own loads or shoot stuff you know to be hot without constantly fearing that your gun is going to explode and maim you for life. Also
>using a .40 in a 9mm
Lmao like we needed any more proof that Glockfags are retarded
>>
>>47354487
>The few videos of malfunctions that exist are because their marketshare is absurd. there is at least a few thousand video instances of this, as well as untold numbers of other forms of recorded evidence that malfunctions happen, if we were to normalize the the market share, there'd still be more glocks than any other handgun malfunctioning.

your bullshit is just that, bullshit, literally every other gun does better, including hi-points. so what does that really say about glocks?
>>
When I started shooting some 10 years ago, I was all about big battle rifles and heavy-metal pistols. 1911 was my peak aesthetic gun. Not even 6 months into shooting, I started trying out some polymer framed pistols, including a G19. I can't say why or how, but I immediately fell in love.

Bought a G19 and recently a G19X. Haven't seriously shot anything else pistol-wise ever since. They're not perfect and the looks don't please everybody, but its the kind of gun that you can buy and simply not worry about rumors or naysayers at all. Its a no-nonsense weapon that does the job.

That's my two cents. I never felt the need to defend Glock's reputation or trashtalk other brands. I just bought a couple of handguns that I fucking love and shoot the shit out of. I count myself lucky for being able to find "the one" gun for me and not having to worry about upgrading, switching or branching out by spending money I could use on ammo.
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>>47354553
You're the one spewing bullshit. No other gun does better.
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>>47354355
Why does trashcan have rifling?
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>>47354584
To put a spin on the trash, idiot.
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>>47354487
>Everyone knows is exactly what i say and the opposite of what you say
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>>47353948
Well yeah but Glock does that and it's lighter, more reliable, and has a way better capacity to weight ratio.
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>>47354595
But why would you spin the trash? It's not a glock marketing department.
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>>47354529
My glocks are all factory except for one I put an RMR on.
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>>47354579
you have no evidence of your claim, meanwhile we all have evidence that 1911's do better. so what is your case again?

>>47354619
mfw
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>>47354560
Based and reasonable. I dislike Glocks because they feel bad in the hand to me, but if you can be simply honest about what you like and not a dick about it, I respect your choice.
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>>47354616
Glock has none of it, that piece of shit will jam before going through its shitty plastic mag.
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>>47347432
Glocks are still relevant because firearms development is absolutely stagnant. The AR-15 (1956) and the Glock (1982) were the last significant small arms innovations. We're still using these relics because no one has made anything that makes them obsolete; only minor improvements. What a fucking joke.
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>>47354651
I haven't had any malfunctions in 10 glocks and thousands of rounds.
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>>47354668
That's simply because the only glocks that you've seen exist in your imagination.
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hey /k/
this is the first time ive ever visited this board
just bought a gen 5 glock 17 for $775 new
felt really good in my hands and accepts 9mm ammo, which is what i was looking for
please tell me i made the right choice
>>
>>47354727
You made a perfectly acceptable choice
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>>47354727
bad new bro, you bought a glock. the shittiest gun in the world. this gun is better for self defense than a glock is.
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>>47354736
thank u
>>47354747
wtf is that in the pic? do you put that in your ass?
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>>47354747
At least it does have plenty chamber support and a safety, unironically a better gun
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>>47354785
Yes, these ridges are for your pleasure
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>>47354691
I have a Gen 5 17 MOS I have about 5000 rounds through. No malfunctions. I have owned 3 19's, a 26, 2 43's, a 42, another gen 3 17, a 23. No idea of round counts on them but well into the thousands. Never had a single malfunction. I've actually never had a malfunction on any guns I've owned because I don't buy shitty guns with the exception of a CZ P-01 and PCR because they absolutely will not feed heavier grain 9mm. My PCR had a catastrophic failure trying to shoot 135 grain critical duty. It literally had a live round stuck in the chamber and had to go to a gunsmith to get it removed. That's not saying that it isn't reliable when I feed it 115 and 124 grain. The gun shoots great. I gave it to my pops so he could have a handgun and he shoots it really well. I'm just saying out of the box Glock has been my favorite pistol. I've tried them all. M&P 1 and 2, VP9, Steyr M9A1, XD, P320, P365XL, 509, P10c, even goofy guns like the the Hudson H9. My Glocks have never had a single problem, aside from one gen 4 19 that the finish wasn't great on and got a ton of holster wear, but that was also a duty gun that sat in a Safariland ALS holster all day. The other Gen 4 19 I sold to my buddy and the trigger broke in so nice it's my favorite Glock to shoot. Thousands of rounds on that bad boy and no malfunctions. My VP9 and my P10c had to go back to the factory for trigger bar burrs and the P10c also had a problem where it would double feed on a press check and get rounds stuck. It never malfunctioned, but it was just annoying shit and the trigger sucked on both handguns. I've felt a "good" vp9 trigger, and while it's good, it still doesn't have a great reset, and that specific range rental malfunctioned every couple of rounds. Probably because it was dirty, I don't know. I know Glock triggers are perfectly serviceable, and I don't need anything "better" to shoot really well. I trust them more than any other pistol. Their recoil impulse and reset is superior.
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>>47354727
Damn. Sorry about the price. But you got a great handgun. I paid 575 for my Gen 5 17 MOS.
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>>47354791
the Altor single fire pistol. it's a great gun, it can reliably go "bang".
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>>47354859
what does MOS mean and whats the difference between a regular glock and the MOS one
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>>47354845
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.
>>
>>47354919
MOS has an optic cut and mine also came with factory night sights that I replaced with RMR height Dawson Precision. But I did get it on blue label so I'm fortunate I don't have to pay civilian prices.
>>
>>47354919
Modular Optic System; It has a cutout on the slide to accept various red dots
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>>47354727

Its a great choice. Have fun with it, buddy.
>>
What the fuck my phone posts aren't going through. I was trying to upload a picture.
>>
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>>47355082
Had to email it to myself. Wonder why phone posting isn't working. Anyway this is my MOS. But I bought it on blue label so that's why it was so cheap.
>>
>>47355118
>Mac
Based
>>
>>47354966
>>47354973
>>47355118
okay got it! im for sure going to replace the stock sights with glow sights after hitting up the range next week to see how it shoots
great looking gun and nice holster!

>>47355000
thank u and nice trips
>>
>>47355139
Yeah I got it for 300 bucks it's a 2011 with a quad core i5 16gb of ram and a 512ssd. I mostly use it to record guitar tracks from my helix and shitpost on guitar general on /mu/.
>>47355171
Stock sights are fine bud. Don't get too frustrated if you suck, everyone does to begin with.
>>
>>47355171
By the way that holster is a JM Custom Kydex AIWB wing claw 2.0 with discreet carry clips. I carry it at 3:30. Definitely recommend.
>>
>>47355224
idk what youre talking about, i can already see myself shooting straight bullseyes

>>47355256
any chance the gun can fall out of the holster? im mainly going to be open carrying while fishing so i need to make sure theres no chance of the gun slipping out or i may actually lose it in a fishing accident
>>
>>47355291
No, I can literally shake it upside down as hard as I want and it won't fall out. It has pretty good retention. But if you're only going to open carry occasionally I'd recommend this:
https://safariland.com/products/model-6378-als-concealment-paddle-holster-w-belt-loop-23341
>>
>>47355291
The safariland link isn't working well but here's another one.
https://www.opticsplanet.com/safariland-model-6378-als-paddle-belt-loop-glock-holster.html
>>
>>47355468
exactly what i was looking for and will order one! thank you, youre the best!
>>
>>47355592
Yeah no problem lol
>>
>>47354727
>>47354859
The local Bass Pro had gen five at the same price, I picked up a gen 4 for $525
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>>47354727
its an objectively great choice. traded my g17 for a 92fs a few months ago and fucking regret it now.
the glocks aren't pretty to look at, but they'll never fail you as long as you take care of it and don't limpwrist, which is impossible as long as you're a male that produces testosterone.
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why isn't there more love for the 21? Its a Glock, manageable g17 size, its in .45
Civilians love the 9mm glocks, police love the .40 glocks, who is the .45 glock for?
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>>47356276
Boomers who'd accepted that polymer frame pistols are better than the 1911, but still believe in muh stoppin powa
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>>47356300
why do you think "stopping power" is a meme? do you consider a .50ae more "powerful" than a .22? if so, why?
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>>47353117
yes so reliable that if your hand isnt gripping the right place it malfunctions. it may be the most reliable pistol if a machine was firing it but theres too many variables to make it reliable at all or a weapon to be trusted in a humans hands
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>peak hangone perofrmance
heh heh...
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>>47350814
>Why are glockfags like this?
Because retards like you don't know how to use google to buy a $500 police trade in. Nigger.
>>
>>47345471
M&p is what Glock should be but they stopped evolving
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>>47357048
how can they be better than glock when all of their energy and effort are spent towards trying TO BE like glock and steal glock-fanboys away from glock?
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>>47356368
Stopping power stops mattering after adequate penetration is achieved. Once you break that threshold, there's no more you can do. 22lr does not have adequate penetration. However, 50ae is no more powerful than 380acp or 9mm, as both of those rounds do have adequate penetration.
>>
>>47351111
Based. The future civil war will be fought with cyberpunk 5.7s and mixed match AKs
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>>47351111
based as fuck. that cartridge IS the future whether /k/ accepts it or not.
i'd love to own one some day when there's more support outside of memes. shoots as smooth as a .22 yet will completely fuck up someones life.
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>Anschluss
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>>47357115
I forgot about the subframe they ripped off of glock, oh wait, they didn't they innovated and improved the design and Glock added and removed finger grooves in that time
>>
the Toyota Camry of firearms, sort of?
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>>47354643
this is my first time on this board. are you one of them 1911 won 2 world wars faggots?
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>>47350676
So, no source.
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>>47357133
>However, 50ae is no more powerful than 380acp or 9mm
Not all tissue has the same elasticity and toughness. What is a temporary wound in gel can be a permanent wound in an actual human.
10mm is more powerful than 9mm.
>>
>>47359250
Wait, he just told you the source. Does the elevator not go all the way up?
>>
I got a Glock first and have always felt lie I want new guns. Others I've talked to also agree that buying guns is addictive. I think people buy guns people is it pleasing.
>>
>>47346176

>nobody puts that round count through a handgun.

Apparently you have never met a bullseye shooter. Oh wait, you're a glockfag, of course you haven't.
>>
Shot a Glock 19 for the first time today. I now see why it's called a compact. Anyone who says it's big enough is a small person.
>>
>>47345471
That's a funny looking Beretta M9A1 G conversion
>>
>>47345471
My USP .45 Tactical begs to differ
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>>47361110
And now you understand women and shoes, or purses.
>>
>>47356486
Wow just like every single other recoil operated pistol then. If you think CZ, HK, Sig, Beretta etc. have some hidden technology that makes them less susceptible to limp wristing, you got memed. Metal frames also do not meaningfully help (particularly aliminum frames). The only feature that would help is some type of gas system like desert eagles or old p7s.
>>
>>47354424
>military and police got it for a major discount, making it the cheapest option. and then it got famous because military and police use it, does this mean it's quality? or just cheap?

Nah. That excuse doesn't work when so many of those agencies and militaries used to have HKs, Sigs, Berettas etc. already and replaced them with glocks. Hell most people on /k/ with USPs got old barely used police trade ins because cops switched to glocks instead. And not because they're shot out either. Most of these USPs are barely fired. Something better just got chosen.
>>
>>47357977

Is the Toyota Camry the most popular car in your nation?
>>
>>47361486
You're forgetting that it's not a gas operated system where there's a separate mechanism to control operation of the firearm, the rearward force of the detonation is all you get for operation. That means depending on the design of the gun, there will be a point of "limp wristing" where the gun will cycle improperly, a point that's different on every firearm. Steel framed handguns are less susceptible because there's more stationary mass when the gun cycles. Simple inertia, and the reason guys like to put tungsten guide rods in comp handguns. I've shot a lot of handguns, and the only one I've ever had stovepipe on me was my Glock 19. Dunno why, but it's that among other things that put a bad taste in my mouth about Glocks and striker poly 9s in general
>>
>>47361526
>time to switch calibers
>cheaper platform doesn't come into play at all
Pls stop
>>
>>47361629
the only time I've limp-wristed one is when I mag dumped one-handed it's pretty hard to do and is the tradeoff you take when you choose a lightweight frame
Other polymers weigh a few ounces compared to their Glock counterpart but don't seem as prone to it
I think that's why they're so prevalent since only 25% of police ever fire a weapon on duty and even fewer CC holders ever fire so the inconvenience of the weight is a bigger concern than a reliability issue that's moot once you practice well that and marketing
Still regret not getting a M&P though
>>
>>47361629
>>47362962
i don’t understand what you guys mean by limpwristing the gun and what the issue with the glock polymer frame is
please explain?
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>>47345471
Sure but it's still fucking ugly.
>>
>>47363007
Handguns rely on the recoil from firing the bullet to cycle the gun. The slide must move all the way back and all the way forward on the frame. If you don't hold the frame firmly a bunch of the energy from the recoil is wasted and causes malfunctions. For why lighter frames are more susceptible to limpwristing take a physics class.
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>>47353011
All of this has been debunked, sweetie
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>>47363007
When a recoil operated gun goes off, what you want is to be able to extract the last cartridge and load a new one. What happens when the bullet is fired, is that an equal and opposite force is applied to the case as the bullet. Aside the point, but there are a number of delay mechanisms that go into slowing the opening of the action to an acceptable speed. In the case of a glock, it's the fire forming of the case to the chamber, the mass of the slide, the recoil spring, and the locking lugs that change the force vector with the tilting barrel. Those are the main ones at least. When you limp wrist, what you're doing is allowing the opposite force from the bullet to move the entire gun more than the design intended, not just the slide, because of those delay mechanisms. In turn, this doesn't let the slide gain the necessary rearward velocity to eject the spent case and load a new one, which leads to FTEs, FTFs, etc
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>>47360254
There's a hard limit for velocity before that happens and neither 50ae or 10mm come anywhere near it. In a human you're going to need a bare minimum of 2,500 fps as rounds going even 2,400 fps have been shown not to cause it. Likely need significantly more.
>>
>>47363064
>>47363138
makes sense
im not a s o y fag so i think ill be okay
>>
>>47363007
The pistol needs to cycle a shot and requires a stable platform to be propped up against (your arm) so all of the force only moves the slide. If you hold the gun like a faggot pinching a napkin, the only moving part (the slide) is no longer the only moving part. This can cause the slide to function like a half-rack where the shell casing gets stuck in the ejection port (called a stovepipe) or you don't even cycle a round after ejection.
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>>47363007
found the confirmed noguns
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>>47363199
Sounds like a newfag instead only /k/ harps on the non-issue of LW
>>
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>>47345471
well, if this is your gun of choice, at least don't mount anything to that rail.
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>>47351006
>goes bang every time
After seeing all these police videos of glock jams, I'd say they don't go bang every time.
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>>47363356
Ah yes, the police, a well funded and highly trained force of top recruits
It surely is the tool's fault and not the operator
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>>47363385
>says it goes bang every time
>point out how the gun doesn't go bang every time
>noooooo, it's not the guns fault.
>>
>>47363468
>use tool wrong
>It doesn't work as intended
>tool is shit
Wow great argument
>>
>>47363385
Well they're tools supposedly made with law enforcement's concerns in mind so yeah lol
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>>47363552
It actually is shit. I could limp wrist the shit out of my M&P and it'll work. Limp wrist or put a WML on to tight and my glock fails.
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>>47363167
>There's a hard limit for velocity
No there isn't.
>not all tissue has the same elasticity
What part of that are you struggling with?
>>
>>47363813
There actually is. Fragmentation happens at about 3,000-3,500 m/s, which equates out to about 10,000-12,000 fps or mach 11. You either need a EFP or a specialized round that can maintain shape at that speed. I think the fastest commerical round is that navy rail gun at mach 6.

Just a fun fact.
>>
>>47364319
You could have just told us you only own ARs bro
>>
>>47357133
You're a fucking idiot

Even if you disregard temporary wound cavities at a minimum you're looking at a permanent wound channel .38 in diameter vs .50
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>>47364838
Some quick math to expand on why the other guy is fucking wrong:

Let's say the wound path of a 9mm vs a .50AE can be modeled as a cylinder 9mm vs 12.7mm, and let's take a path length of 305mm (12inches)

Wolfram Alpha says the volume of that 9mm cylinder - i.e. the volume of destroyed organs and tissue and bone - is 19403 cubic millimeters

the .50ae is 38636 cubic milimeters

the .50ae has nearly fucking double the volume of destroyed tissue in that wound path

and this is assuming his super-conservative conditions e.g. no hydrostatic shock, no tumbling, FMJ ammo stopping magically at 12"
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>>47364319
What does this have to do with the false velocity minimum set by a remington employee in regards to permanent secondary cavitation on humans and other like mammals?
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>>47345471
VP9 beats it in every single category except for aftermarket support.
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>>47363813
Yes, it's variable by type of tissue, but there's a hard limit for velocity in any individual type of tissue. NO tissue found in a human can achieve a permanent wound cavity with under 2,500fps. There may be some that happen past 4,000fps, some that happen past 3,000fps, some that happen past 2,000fps, but NONE that happen at pistol velocities.

>>47364838
>>47364918
Insignificant. Twice nothing is still fucking nothing. No man fired bullet, even a fucking 20mm cannon if it didn't have rifle velocities to go with that size, is large enough to allow for missing vital areas, and all do their job just fine if you hit them. And no pistol calibers have functioning hydrostatic shock, you NEED rifles to actually do damage by that mechanic.
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>>47345471
a fascinating yet incorrect statement and opinion, please face the wall now
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>>47365043
Failure to feed, failure to extract, slide not locking back after last round, all in the first few hundred rounds.
Yeah a real fucking gem.
>>
It has bad ergonomics.
Not even complaining about the grip angle, they just didn't bother shape the grip.
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>>47365076
Why do ergonomics matter? You're not holding it all day.
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>>47365045
>NO tissue found in a human can achieve a permanent wound cavity with under 2,500fps.
Says a guy a remington. Provide some evidence that the liver and kidneys require the magical velocity of 2,500fps.
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>>47365103
Based retard
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>>47365045
Eat a dick you fucking pretend know it all faggot.
"Wounds typically are classified as low-velocity (< 2000 feet/second) or high-velocity (> 2000 feet/second). However, these terms can be misleading. More important is the efficiency of energy transfer, which is dependent on the projectile’s physical characteristics including deformation and fragmentation, kinetic energy, stability, entrance profile, path traveled through the body, and the biologic characteristics of the tissues."
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>>47365176
Energy transfer is an old fudd myth. No bullet has enough energy to matter.
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>>47365249
Yeah fuck this guy and this journal right? What the fuck does he know?
You are less than worthless.
>Clinical Update: Gunshot Wound Ballistics
Bartlett, Craig, S.Author Information
Clinical Orthopaedics and Related Research: March 2003 - Volume 408 - Issue - p 28-57
>>
>>47365350
Yes, written by some boomer. Of fucking course he's perpetuating fudd myths.

Deformation: important
Fragmentation: important
Path: important
Energy: literally irrelevant
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>>47365448
Ive wiped my ass with things more intelligent than you.
>>
>>47365485
No bullet from a man-fireable firearm carries enough energy to significantly harm a human by dumping energy. They need to rip through flesh with significant velocity, or take a path of directly ripping enough flesh apart. Even a 20mm antimaterial rifle gunshot would be survivable with the bullet stopped (not like any body armor could stop it, but that's besides the point), the energy to cause death by means of energy dumping just isn't there. A handgun of any kind isn't even within two orders of magnitude of enough energy to kill a person by means of dumping energy.
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>>47345471
I wanted to buy a glock until I shot a cz and understood that trigger and ergos don't necessairly have to be shitty
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>>47365691
The amount of stupid you fit in one post is amazing.
A person can make you piss blood with my fists. A person can knock you out and even kill you and never penetrate your body.
All at levels near the higher end of pistol bullets.
Expanding bullets and the what you think is solely the quest not to "over penetrate" is actually a field of design whos task is to impart all of a bullets energy to the vitals of the target.
>>
>>47365691
Today you learned that four or five hundred ft lbs of energy applied over a pretty small surface area is enough energy to destroy kidney tissue, cause bruised brain tissue and cause other significant damage to a human being simply through energy transfer.
Now fuck off with your hopelessly retarded wrong opinion on pistol bullets.
>>
>>47365776
>>47365887
It'll be extremely unpleasant, and you'll be seriously injured, but you probably won't die if the bullet is stopped.

Expanding bullets are designed to get physically larger making a larger wound channel. Tumbling bullets do that same job better.
>>
>>47365940
Again more stupid.
We are not talking about stopping a bullet outside you.
We are talking about the transfer of lets say 500ft lbs of energy over an extremely quick time period to your vital organs.
Per the medical journal posted.
At 1000 fps there is extra noticable damage to muscle tissue. That is putside the perminent cavity
Per the medical journal posted. Bruising appears 24 hours after the gunshot wound. Outside the perminent cavity.
I would go on but I do not think you can grasp these simple concepts.
>>
>>47366004
That's not about the energy transfer. That's about a physical hunk of metal passing through you.
>>
>>47366004
>>47366282
Oh, and the extra damage at 1,000 fps is from velocity, not energy.
>>
>>47366282
>>47366283
If it is not energy transfer then there would be no damage where the bullet did not touch. We have established there is.
>thats velocity not energy
Reminds me of that Carlin joke about the idiot weatherman who said there was a a southerly wind blowing at 0mph.
Velocity x velocity x mass= energy.
A particle going the speed of light is transferring energy when it hits. And someone has lived through that and there was significant damage. Right through the brain.
Velocity alone does nothing. It requires mass.
And there you come full circle in your willful ignorance.
>Wounds typically are classified as low-velocity (< 2000 feet/second) or high-velocity (> 2000 feet/second). However, these terms can be misleading. More important is the efficiency of energy transfer, which is dependent on the projectile’s physical characteristics including deformation and fragmentation, kinetic energy, stability, entrance profile, path traveled through the body, and the biologic characteristics of the tissues.
Any asshole that says all pistol bullets are the same, or 2500 fps is some magical velocity is talking out their ass.
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>>47366427
*near the speed of light*
>>
>>47366427
That particle was many many many orders of magnitude smaller than any bullet. Trillions of times smaller. You're being obtuse when we're comparing bullets at most 2-4x different in size to particles trillions of times different in size. Non-bullets are not a part of this conversation.

When your bullets are within the size that actual real bullets you can buy and not subatomic particles come in, only velocity matters. Mass does nothing but aid in penetration either, a 50ae that was hollowed out to go faster would be far more potent in humans than a normal 50ae bullet.

Oh, and that guy had lasting effects for LIFE even by a particle trillions of times smaller than any bullet. Velocity is THAT potent.
>>
>>47351006
They are more prone to limp wrist jams than lots of other guns are. Yes, you could technically define that as "User Error"; however I would also say that makes them a bit less reliable overall because the user is ultimately not perfectly reliable either. Also, the slide locks break down over time. Though that's an issue with most guns honestly. Other issue I see a lot with them is the rear sights shifting.

I can't shit on Glock too hard since MOST of their firearms are solid. Though that's just it, honestly, solid. Not bad, not really good either, solid. Sure, you can after market the fuck out of them to make them good, but at the same time there are a lot of guns that are good like that out of the box and get even better in after market.

Glocks are fine guns, but again that's it. Solid, fine, adequate. Take your pick.

>>47351111
I really like the new Ruger 5.7, hopefully I'll convince myself to nab one at some point.
>>
>>47345522
>But they're boring

This is a complement for a gun. Guns are tools that may save your life, you want the most boring one possible.

>>47345471

You are correct. My first semi-auto pistol was a Glock 23 (gen3 when they were new), it has never failed. Ever. I tactifucked it because I couldn't shoot, tried other manufacturers, realized the problem was me, went to the 19 and 17, and now back to the old 23.

23 is completely fucking stock, even uses Glock night sights, and yes I can pop the gong with it at 100 with very little effort.
>>
>>47366774

Aftermarket does nothing for Glock besides mask user mistakes, and make the gun less reliable. Period. It also makes a lot of money for 3rd party suppliers.

Throw all that shit in the garbage, you don't need it.
>>
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>>47364793
I have a shovel that I can throw 400 yards out

>>47365021
Absolutely nothing because fuck you
>>
>>47366774
I would REALLY make an effort to handle the Ruger in person before buying one. The fit and finish just feels shoddy, the slide wobbles like hell on the frame. The slide metallurgy is also iffy for the pressures of 5.7 being cast metal instead of forged like FN's. Fine for a range toy, but I'd be reluctant to trust it long term.
>>
>>47366951

So its like every Ruger every then?
>>
>>47366951
I'll try it out
>>
>>47366653
>a 50ae that was hollowed out to go faster would be far more potent in humans than a normal 50ae bullet
That would depend on the weight, the velocity, the construction and design of the bullet and its ability to transfer its energy to the target.
A 7mm bullet that is say a RN thats length is equal to close to quadruple its width so say 180gr traveling at 2600fps will not do as much damage at all as it travels straight through. A lighter say 130gr 7mm bullet traveling at 2300fps but of an expanding design will do more damage.
How is that possible? Because the 180gr RN will exit with a large portion of its energy.
The expanding bullet in this example stops inside imparting all its energy on target. And even though it started with less energy and still transferred more to the target and therefore did more damage.
>>
>>47360257
He never provided a source
>>
>>47363094
>debunked
Consider suicide
>>
>>47351399
>cheap Czech steel vs quality Austrian steel
>>
>>47345471
OP, I agree with you. My first phase was "People say glock is boring, uncool", so I went to local shop and found a cool used Sig M17. I like it. Then I got few more that wasn't a glock and had terrible time with it. Especially a Turkish cheapo piece. After that experience, I sold them, kept only M17 and went to Glock. I get it now, reliability is everything. I got the G17 Gen5. Love the control and how well I can shoot it. I found a G43 used. Got that too as a future concealed carry piece. I'm probably gonna stick with Glock and AR's. Those that say Glocks are boring, Boring is Amazing. You don't want any surprises when it comes to your guns, phones, cars, washing machine, refrigerator, or any other machinery. A wise man once told me, don't reinvent the wheel.

"When You Do Things Right, People Won’t Be Sure You’ve Done Anything at All"
>>
>>47353170
Mine was brand new
>>
>>47367094
Basically yes. Some people say it's better than the FN because it has more features, or a more traditional layout, but to me personally I just can't stand how it feels.
>>
>>47367264
A 180gr and 130gr bullet traveling at identical velocity with identical expansion will deal identical damage because energy as a wounding mechanism is a spook. But since velocity works, between a 180gr and 130gr bullet with identical expansion and identical powder behind them, the 130gr will do considerably more damage as it will be moving faster.
>>
>>47368052
> identical expansion
Cough
> More important is the efficiency of energy transfer, which is dependent on the projectile’s physical characteristics including deformation
>since velocity works
Cough
>Velocity times velocity times mass equals energy.
Show us two bullets of equal expansion that penetrate to the same depth of the same caliber with the same energy that have different velocities and mass that do a repeatable measurable different level of damage on target.
>>
>>47368052
To simplify, you just admitted that bullet construction and behavior is as big if not bigger a factor in terminal ballistics than velocity.
>>
>>47368741
Because it is. Energy is irrelevant. Bullet construction is extremely important. Especially in pistol calibers. Tumbling >>> expanding with identical velocity within the limitations of pistol rounds.
>>
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>>47367555
>dem trips
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>>47353011
>Doesn't drop mags free

thanks for proving you're a retarded nigger.
>>
>>47369256
>energy is irrelevant
>Wounds typically are classified as low-velocity (< 2000 feet/second) or high-velocity (> 2000 feet/second). However, these terms can be misleading. More important is the efficiency of energy transfer, which is dependent on the projectile’s physical characteristics including deformation and fragmentation, kinetic energy, stability, entrance profile, path traveled through the body, and the biologic characteristics of the tissues.
Anon keeps saying velocity is irrelevant but is too stupid to realize that is what he is saying. Contradicting the original claim.
>>
>>47369827
I'm saying this statement
>More important is the efficiency of energy transfer
Is outright false. Projectile characteristics are not important because of how they dump energy, but because of how they guide the physical chunk of metal through the body where it directly fucks up things it touches. Not by dumping energy.
>>
>>47369256
>Energy is irrelevant
>velocity works
Velocity x velocity x mass
>Energy is irrelevant
>velocity works
>energy is irrelevant
>bullet construction matters
>>
>>47363344
Glock has the right idea. People who shoot .40 should have their guns jam in critical situations or explode in their faces.
>>
>>47369842
>I'm saying I do not know what energy is, how work is done.
>>
>>47369876
it's not only an issue with .40. same happens with other guns but they have so much data on .40 that they made that statement.
>>
>>47369876

>Be Me
>20k rounds through a Gen3 Glock 23
>No Explosions, No FTF, No FTE

My .40 caliber Glocks have been the least problematic guns I've ever owned, followed by my 9mm Glocks. I don't use a WML on a pistol because they are fucking dumb.
>>
>>47369842
If this were remotely true a .40 and 10mm that penetrate to roughly the same depth but have different velocities would cause the same amount of injury and have the same effect with the same shot placement. This has been repeatedly demonstrated on deer size animals to be untrue.
>inb4 deer are not people
That is irrelevant to your false claim
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>>47369862
Velocity matters because flesh physically can't get out of the way fast enough
Bullet construction matters because it physically rips through flesh
Energy only matters for overcoming dense bone or achieving sufficient penetration in nonhuman animals with much deeper seated organs, it does not aid in damaging humans

>>47369882
All bullets have sufficient energy to rip through flesh on the way through a human. Adding more doesn't help.

>>47369954
Velocity does matter because flesh cannot move out of the way as well with a higher velocity. Energy ft-lbs are not relevant, you could decrease bullet mass to decrease energy with no ill effect as long as velocity stayed high.
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>>47369954
Oh, and deer are a poor comparison to humans

Humans: shot from the front, with the heart mere inches beyond the point of impact for the bullet
Deer: shot mostly from the side, requiring much deeper penetration to reach vitals

Energy is useful for penetration, just not dealing damage when it gets there. It's 10mm's extra velocity that makes it more useful, hence why .357sig also beats out .40sw and why 9x25 Dillion beats out 10mm.
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Also just let people ask an honest question, for fucks sake. Not everyone is a natural born operator like the elite navy seals that post on this board
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>>47370078
>Energy ft-lbs are not relevant,
He says as he then goes on to describe a situation where he lowers mass but increases velocity keeping the energy the same or making it greater
>you could decrease bullet mass to decrease energy with no ill effect as long as velocity stayed high.
>Energy is useful for penetration
Jesus you are clueless aren't you?
>Energy only matters for overcoming dense bone or achieving sufficient penetration in nonhuman animals with much deeper seated organs, it does not aid in damaging humans
Fuck me you are dumb. That would mean there is zero difference in damage on a complete pass through of a 308 and 300WM. Wow. We bettet call science weekly and let them know captain short bus says so.
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>>47370193
Shut up retard. Its obvious at this point you don't even have a graspnof high school level physics.
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>>47369920
True
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>>47370193
>10mm's extra velocity that makes it more useful over the .40
Same bullet. Same weight. Same diameter. Same SD/BC.
>10mm's extra velocity that makes it more useful over the .40
Nah, you can not be this dumb.
Velocity x velocity x mass
>10mm's extra velocity that gives it more energy than the .40. Bullet design keeps both at an acceptable depth in quality HD rounds. Meaning the VERY FUCKING NOTICABLE difference in wound channel and incapacitation times are due to ENERGY TRANSFER.
Fixed it for you. Now stop spreading disinformation on the internet
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>>47370338
t. buttmadpoorfag glocktard posting from a phone. kek
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>>47370284
>That would mean there is zero difference in damage on a complete pass through of a 308 and 300WM.
Correct
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>>47369876
okay wristlet
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>>47370419
The energy is only incidental, the velocity is the important part.
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File: m9.jpg (2.98 MB, 2883x1822)
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>>47345471
You may not like it
But this is what peak handgun performance looks like. Why is it that most people go through handguns like tissue paper until they ultimately decide that perfection already existed?
>inb4 beretta shill
I like shooting other handguns. I don't even own a M9 currently. I carry a Beretta M1934. But I feel like there are phases everyone goes through. First phase is Beretta is a great first handgun, then you suck at shooting it and you think it isn't gucci enough, then you try everything else and realize you preferred your Beretta all along. And the final stage is Beretta shill where you realize you can make 100 yard shots on 10 inch gongs with a factory M9 and the pistol has literally never let you down. For me, this period took the better part of a decade. But I think a lot of oldfags will agree with me. Beretta kind of is Perfection™
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>>47370861
Final stage of the M9 for me was using multiple examples on multiple fucking continents and an island at various stages of my military career and every single one was an absolute shit show. Just as a pistol, the design, its function, fucking garbage. I know guys get out know a firearm inside and out so the want one. If you tried to give me a brand new M9 I would fucking hit you for daring to insult me with the burden that is that fucking pile of bad ideas.
Serously bad pistol.
>was a service pistol anon you see..
Bullshit. I had my hands on 1911s and Glock service pistols that were worlds better. Fucking lightyears.
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>>47370819
I have personally cut up game and can tell you there is a very noticable difference.
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>>47370843
No velocity without mass. The two are inseparable in terminal ballistice. Combined they give us a figure known as energy. That energy is used to do work. It does work by both driving the bullet into the target and also imparting the rest of its energy to the target much like punch brake.
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>>47371653
I have personally cut up game and can tell you there is not

>>47371663
You could lower mass while keeping velocity constant and have no ill effects on target, unless you go too low to break through the skeletal structure.
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>>47372145
Post pictures of game you have cut up.

If one lowers the mass amd keeps the velocity constant one lowers the damage done to the target. Proven time and again with "regular" and magnum cartridges shooting the same bullet. Or even more precisely using 44 magnum out of a pistol vs a carbine.
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>>47371644
No you're shit at using it obivously jarhead
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>>47372163
I don't take any because I find game pictures to be a hallmark of gaudy trophy hunting.

Out of a pistol vs a carbine changes velocity dramatically.
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>>47372201
You are a liar and an idiot.
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>>47372190
Not a umpa lumpa soldier, and its a sad day when the citizen blames the soldier for the shortcomings of a pistol.
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>>47345471
I went to my LGS and asked for a 9mm 12 years ago, he handed me a Glock 19 and I never looked back
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>>47372259
Gonna be around in about a week? Going hunting this next weekend, if I get something I'll take a picture just for you. Obviously won't have any comparison since I'm not putting a second bullet through a dead deer for some dude on /k/, but it'll be some proof I'm not just talking out of my ass.
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>>47372427
You wont need a second picture. What are you using? Chances are you will trim back the first exterior fat layer and find damage to muscle and tussues outside the bullet channel. This is perminent secondary wounding and tertiary woumd channels both caused by the transfer of energy. Even the primary wound channel will probably be larger that the bullet expanded.
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>>47345522
Thats why you have fun rangetoy pistols and then boring practical pistols to rely your life on.
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I like glock gen 3s as a model line as they're practically an open source pistol with plenty of options for building one that you like. I don't like stock glocks at all.



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