>cracks open bottle of Bénédictine>chugs itYup, the Rafale... now THAT'S a fighter jet.
>>46019340It’s ugly and also untested. Hardly a fighter of note
It's not the worst modern fighter; it's not the best one either. It'd still utterly destroy a flanker and that's really all that matters. >.t bong
>>46019372It has seen thousands of hours of combat, both in Africa and Middle EastYou can't say it's not combat proven
>>46019340India Rafalé will destroy every Pakistani fighter fleet. Just like valiant Commander Abdhinandan did with entire Pakistani filth F16V fleet with single MiG-21.
>>46021960Those soldiers saved him from a lynch mob
>>46019340Mirage f1 was better
>>46019340>Rafale... the F-22 KILLER
>>46019340I find it incredibly likely that Indian incompetence in any conflict with China will forever destroy the Rafale's reputation.
>>46022138Bullshit. Saved him for photo opportunity and later tortured Commander Adbhinanadan in clear blatant violation of Geneva Convention.It was a good thing that Pakistani terrorist leader filth behind Commander Adbhinandan got killed and now rest in Islam hell by the hands of India's Elite SOF and RAW operator. https://eurasiantimes.com/pakistan-ssg-commando-who-arrested-wing-commanded-abhinandan-killed-by-indian-army/
Rafale is pretty goodhttps://youtu.be/HEe3xfWfkG8
>>46019340Kinda partial to the Mirage 2000 myself. Just for looks anyway
For me it's M
>>46019372>It’s uglyYour distorted perception of beauty shows that you're a tranny.It may be not the best on paper but reports show is a good plane overall. A jack of all trades and reliable. It will also be compatible with the Meteor soon, which will make it more capable than 90% of the other fighters in A2A combat.
>>46019372>>46019448The only western fighter to be useful off a carrier right out of the factory, to be able to go toe to toe with 5th gens due to low RCS, and still have performance that is unparaleled. I'm sorry but F-22, F-35 and Typhoon play second (or third) fiddle to the Rafale.The story is the same with most naval and land combatants, France generally has the best vehicles in NATO.
>>46024799>The only western fighter to be useful off a carrier right out of the factoryThat's good, it can use all those carrier the French have.Singular.Just one.
>>46024866Yeah they're the only NATO nation to make a good carrier aircraft since the F-18, and maybe even the F-14. Your response to that is nothing but pure cope, as one would expect from a small-islander.
>>46024682F3-R is already in production and in retrofitRafale, however, does not have 2 way datalink with the meteor
>>46024799> F-22, F-35 and Typhoon play second (or third) fiddle to the RafaleYeah, no.
>>46019340This thread:>inhales>HNGRRRRAAAH REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>46025385Don't you find it strange none of America's enemies are even slightly worried by those two garbage cans?
>>46027445They do an awful lot of anti F-35 shilling for 'not being even slightly worried'. Even if you're extremely charitable and assume the stealth and sensor fusion don't give the F-35 much of an edge, the sheer numbers that have been produced alone probably keep their air force chiefs of staff awake at night.
>>46019340The sheer amount of "my jet can beat your jet" that' sbeen going on these past weeks between India/Pakistan/China has been very entertaining, though incredibly retarded The Rafale is the best omnirole navy jet though, with the AESA radar
>>46022226Mirage F1 is a dad plane, it's all mechanical. It's still pure kino though.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EprRB4MAZPUThe rafale is a cocoon like plane with it's fly by wire and so much assists it's just pure chill.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXXl3dEx6qo
>>46027998It's the 2nd best now that the F-35 is in service.
>>46027998I've legitimately never seen as much coverage of a arms sale delivery as the Indians getting their Rafales
>>46028649I think more than few thing factored into that. First it has been all covid 24h a day for half a year so any non-negative news is going to gather interest even from people not normally interested in defense news, second there was that recent kertuffle between china, and also that fool of a politican who has been shrieking about scam for one and half year already without shred of fact in words that escape his mouth has kept the topic in flame
>>46028649>I've legitimately never seen as much coverage of a arms sale delivery as the Indians getting their Rafalesinfo ops, India and China were recently beating each other to death with spiked clubs
>>46028833>>46028981Yeah, I get that, but Rafales aren't really what I'd consider glamorous. I mean, don't get me wrong, Rafales are great planes, but it's not like they acquired something particularly special.
>>46028108Yeah but it's an ugly zoomer plane
>>46024799F/a-18s and E series growlers are also perfect cattier aircraft.
how many people even browse /k/? I mean it doesn't feel like more than 10,000 lads in here ever and that's including the constant in and out flow of paind misinformers, shills, redditors, and other human flotsam that occasionally drifts in to stir shit up in their own way.Why would anyone pay to shill shit about fucking airplane superiority on here?Why would anyone give a shit what we talk about in here? Does the opinion and mindsets of a bunch of deer enthusiast basket weavers in mongolia really matter that much?
>>460281083rd best, Super Hornet is around.
>>46029083>it's not like they acquired something particularly specialany multi-billion dollar acquisition of new production western fighters is a big deal anon
>>46028108>It's the 2nd best now that the F-35 is in service.Are we ranking wastes of money or naval fighters?
>>46019340>Shoves R-77-1 up your assNothing personal, kid
>>46032212F-35 flyaway is cheaper than Rafale and Superbug now, seethe more.
>>46032350Russian planes have a very weak combat record. Frog plane would rape
French toast: the plane
The Rafale is a great forward-thinking plane. If it weren't for how political airforce acquisition is there'd be a lot more operators. Sure ypu're kind of locked into the French arms industry for upgrades but that's a pretty good industry and I'm sure they'd work with you for integrating other stuff if required.
>>46024866Have to agree, they're pretty much perfectly suited for what they're doing, and the Growler is one of a kind and incredibly useful But it's also taken much longer and a lot more of money put into development to get there Though that doesn't change anything really
>>46028058Honhonhon It actually is the official nomenclature though, when speaking about Mr. Dassault's plane
>>46032670Politics are pretty much its main selling point, actually. It's a 4.5 gen multirole broadly on par with other Western equivalents, while being completely ITAR free.It's not really competitive otherwise because of the prohibitive unit cost, Dassault can assemble a maximum of 33 Rafales a year, which nothing compared to what LockMart and the lkes can produce. As such, it can't really benefit from the economy of scale.
>>46021960>>46022458Found the poo
>>46032382Without engines or RD included in price, and only when sold to America while rest of the cost is transferred to foreign buyers paying up to $300 mil per jet. And also non functional gun, subsonic speed, bomb bay that has to be opened periodically to prevent overheating.... It can hardly be called flyaway cost.Seriously go fuck yourself.
>>46037518the anime cunny knows the truth of the matter
>>46037518please no bulli
>>46022265>incompetencewtf is wrong with Indians. military accidents are inevitable but nothing beats their abysmal record. Is there something wrong with their work ethics?
>>46037742They don't bother with silly things like 'maintenance'
>>46019340Not opening a bottle of Pastis or Ricard.
>>46022252The Rafale KILLER
>>46022458if this is what Indians actually believe...lol
>>46038308Speaking of "maintenance"..............
>>46024866>he doesn't know
>>46036466>bomb bay that has to be opened periodically to prevent overheatingReputable source?
>>46039445It was in one of the dote reports or came up in one of the congressional hearings.That issue has however been "fixed" since by adjusting the design limits to make it okay that the bay gets that hot. It's not that dangerous but weapons carried internally and likely some components inside the bays as well will have much reduced life time due to this t. different anon
>>46038685>a heavy duty crashed.Sounds like me pulling guard shifts at the Gate lol
>>46039170Navy should buy Rafale
>>46036466>Without enginesIncorrect>RD included in priceand it is for the Rafale or Superbug?>only when sold to AmericaNope, Denmark purchased 27 F-35A for $3 Bn. That's $111 Mn/unit flyaway cost. Compare that to $200 Mn/unit India paid for the Rafale ($8 Bn for 36 units)>rest of the cost is transferred to foreign buyersIncorrect, unless you're talking about fuel, maintenance, armament etc. which, surprise surpise you have to do for any jet and why the previous figure is called 'flyaway'>non-functional gunIncorrect.>subsonic speedIncorrect.>bomb bay opened periodicallyIncorrect. Seriously, fuck you, stop getting your news from shitty Russian disinfo memes.
>>46039632lmao, "no u". I suppose you'll post some evidence to back up your ridiculous claims? Oh wait, they were all elements found in testing that have since been fixed or rendered irrelevant.
>>46039643You are sprouting the same nonsense all the time. People correcting you gets ignored in the past. So there is no reason to discuss that matter with you.
>>46039649Do you think all posters are the same person?
>>46039649Poland pays $6.5 billion for 32 planes. Which would make 200 million per plane. So many spare parts couldn't be included to make it a cheap.Even ignoring that the incoming block 4 upgrade is so expensive that the UK for example will not upgrade all of their F-35B to that standard - and that's not some very specific upgrade but it still covers basic capabilities.
>>46039680>UK for example will not upgrade all of their F-35B to that standardMedia really needs to hang for this; they've only said that they've not decided how many they'll upgrade. They keep a number seperate to the operational squadrons for certification, testing and flight training. These don't need to be the latest block and if it saves £10 million that can go towards staffing or armaments that's a good thing.
>>46039617Daily reminder that sticker price means absolutely nothing when it comes to planes (and it's also true for most sophisticated military equipment) because it doesn't take into account technology transfer, local production (which is a pretty big deal for India, the fact that the Indian Rafales are partly built there was a huge plus for them), cost of weapons, training, infrastructures, maintenance logistics (those a pretty expensive for the F35), and probably other variables I forgot. Consider a plane like the Mig 29 : on paper it was not really expensive, but in reality the engines life was so short that the cost to keep it operational was prohibitive through the years. I fear the F35 will suffer the same problem, especially for the small European countries like Greece or Belgium.
>>46039692>https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/why-denmark-might-not-actually-want-its-new-f-35-fighters-106691This article is unironically trash, it immediately falls for the meme of "it doesn't carry six because that would compromise RCS" while ignoring that the competitor's RCS is garbage independent of how many missiles it's carrying. It goes on to say they're only buying buying the F-35 would make the Americans happy, as if the F/A-18 isn't already built in America too?
>>46039680https://www.airforce-technology.com/news/poland-f35/They negotiated it down to $4.6 Bn
>>46039749based on Polish sources it's most accounting trickery by the Polish.
>>46039732>Daily reminder that sticker price means absolutely nothing when it comes to planesIt doesn't mean nothing, but I agree people give it more weight than it's due. I was using it to demonstrate that people unfairly inflate the F-35's cost by comparing lifetime costs to the flyaway of other airframes. The F-35 program have tried to better estimate lifetime costs of the airframe which has made more data available for projecting costs into the future for the bean counters, the problem is the media pick up on those documents and latch on to the big numbers without context and it's been pissing me off. >Consider a plane like the Mig 29 : on paper it was not really expensive, but in reality the engines life was so short that the cost to keep it operational was prohibitive through the years.I remember when this was in the news; iirc the kicker was that it was actually cheaper to operate a F-16 long term than a Mig-29 due to the engine overhauls in the end. From what i've read, the engine is not a major expected point of failure in this regard for the F-35; but probably more likely airframe stress with the novel composites they're using. https://www.f35.com/news/detail/f-35-ground-testing-shows-potential-for-f-35a-lifetime-extension1
>>46039787The F-35 airframe can't even handle sustaining supersonic periods. Which either limits its tactical capabilities or shortening its lifetime. Even ignoring that the first F-35 already suffering airframe damage.
>>46039808The sustained supersonic thing was from 2016 and only present on the B & C due to some issues with the afterburner and the tail iirc. That was fixed by the start of 2018 and all 3 variants were cleared for their full flight envelope. iirc the last major airframe stress issue that remains is to do with the built in gun in the A variant firing for prolonged periods i.e. unexpected secondary stresses from vibration shocks.
>>46039828No, nothing was actual fixed. It would have included airframe redesigns which was deemed as not worth the bucks. So there are now time limits the planes are allowed to fly at supersonic.
>>46019340based and Rafale-pilledHowever, I will say the following about the Rafale: it's not perfect. See, it's not a pure fighter, and it's not a pure ground attack aircraft either. France needs something between the attack helicopter and a pure dogfighter. It's not normal if you don't have anything in between a bicycle and a formula 1! In order to cut down costs France fused the two in what is essentially the best multirole fighter ever. It is, truly, the best omnirole, but as they say: >jack of all trades, master of nonethe Rafale is not the best ground attack aircraft, that would be the A10it is neither the best dogfighter, that would be the F22It's very good at both, but not the best. It makes sense for a small country like France that has a very limited budget but still wants a platform that will kick ass.
So i've just come across this budget doc from the US Navy: https://www.secnav.navy.mil/fmc/fmb/Documents/21pres/APN_BA1-4_BOOK.pdftl;dr they're expecting F-35 flyaway for the B & C to trend down to ~$110 Mn & $100 Mn respectively from 2020 going forward. Interestingly the flyaway for the F/A-18 E/F is down at ~$65 Mn, much cheaper than I thought.
>>46032313dassault neuron is a meme though
>>46039848Rafale was always designed to be a fighter bomber first. For the longest time its only AA missile was the MICA which is some bastard WVR missile with limited BVR capabilities not unlike the ASRAAM of the Bongs. And even with the Meteor it lacks the dual link capability.
>>46019340>BénédictineFrance became an anti-Catholic freemasonic shithole after napoleon III a process started by the barbarity of the terror and only paused by Nap 1 and III
>>46039849>tl;dr they're expecting F-35 flyaway for the B & C to trend down to ~$110 Mn & $100 Mn respectively from 2020 going forward. Interestingly the flyaway for the F/A-18 E/F is down at ~$65 Mn, much cheaper than I thought.Trump effect, probably rang them up and said that's all I'm paying sorry bye
to understand the Rafale one must not compare it to American planes, but rather place it in the french context. Who are France's main concerns? > niggers with no actual DCAs > an autistic russia who would go full retard and invade Western EuropeIn both cases, the Rafale will need to do two things: ground attack. Niggers and talibans don't have planes, and Russian planes would get decimated by European DCAs. Besides, the main military tactic of Russia is tanks. Having a top-of-the-line tank-killer is a must for France in order to deter any Russian invasion. Not that they will actually use it of course. They'll just use Germany as a meat sheild, wait for Berlin to be ransacked, then sign a peace treaty with Russia.
>>46039849The Navy doesn't want the F-35. So there is a bias for the F-18.
>>46039893That makes no sense. The Rafale is designed to do ground attack missions without having the variety of American planes. So it must be able to do everything on its own.
>>46039895The US Navy wants at least dozen Rafales but they can't say that. >AYO HOL UP ADMIRAL>So you be sayin we wuz goin buy surrendermonkey plane n shiett? >ey bitch this plane aint even fitted with cupholders muhfugga>wehh ma gon put muh xtra large diet coke n shieeet
>>46039906well yes. But my point is the Rafale was designed around ground attack, then it was modified to be able to carry out other missions like Air2Air combat and Nuclear Strikes.
Rafale actually suffers from the fact that France doesn't want foreign weapons on their plane.
>>46039932the Giat 30 is a decent revolver cannon, though, and the Exocet missile is 1st in its class.
>>46039837>>46039846It's mentioned with a fixed tail via redesign for the B to resolve it in the 2017 DOT&E report: https://www.dote.osd.mil/Portals/97/pub/reports/FY2017/dod/2017f35jsf.pdf?ver=2019-08-19-113748-273but no mention of any flight limits is made in 2018 or 2019, suggesting that it's either resolved or not seen as a major limit to operational capability. They still bring up the poor gun performance in the A so it's not like they're shy about bringing up issues>2018https://www.dote.osd.mil/Portals/97/pub/reports/FY2018/dod/2018f35jsf.pdf?ver=2019-08-21-155717-757>2019https://www.dote.osd.mil/Portals/97/pub/reports/FY2019/dod/2019f35jsf.pdf?ver=2020-01-30-115432-173In any case, i think i've produced enough evidence now that 1. the gun works (even if it's restricted to combat use only until they sort out the structural issues); 2. It's supersonic (if the issue is even still present it's only present in narrow circumstances, pilots can absolutely go supersonic if they want to) 3. the bomb bay heat management issues from fuck knows when are well fixed. 4. It's not significantly more expensive than other airframes, particularly given the increased capabilities from the stealth & sensors.
>>46039916I wonder if they want it for dissimilar airframe OPFOR training in the same way the RAF use the Gripen. It'd be pretty good for that given it's navalised and a more similar planform to the Mig-29K compared to the F/A-18
>>46039922>>46039893You are cringe and wrong.
>>46039932>Rafale actually suffers from the fact that France doesn't want foreign weapons on their plane.But that's just wrong. Dassault offers foreign weapon integration based on what the customer asks.
>>46039848see>>46038511Everyone should clearly just buy F-4's
VIVE LA FRANCE PUTAIN
>>46022252something something luneburg lens
>>46040092or it's an exercise and they will have arranged a merge to practice BFM? nothing to do with RCS, although i'd be surprised if the F-22 was going without a luneburg lens considering the USAF probably don't want to give details about the radar profile out that easily.
>>46039922Rafale F1 didn't even have air-to-ground capability, it was air-to-air only. F2 standard, that came 5 years after introduction, was the first that could do that
>>460402898/10 would bang
>>46039954> not like they're shy about bringing up issuesAfter partner nations started operating F-35's everything that could be stamped classified was done so. Issues that public already knew about are still talked about but new operating limits like that obviously fall into the classified category and thus are not revealed
>>46040289The F1 was more or less rushed into service because once the Navy had retired the Crusaders, they were left with SEMs only, which has very limited A2A capabilities. The Rafale was meant with A2G in mind, considering how much emphasis they put on SPECTRA, and how they switched to a mainly B-variant fleet after Desert Storm.
Why would the French need this anyways ? WW2 demonstrated that they run away with their hands up and surrender without firing a SINGLE round every time shit hits the fan.
PAKISTAN FEARS THE RAFALÉ!! https://www.defenceaviationpost.com/2020/08/why-pakistans-entire-fleet-of-f-16s-jf-17s-is-at-high-risk-with-the-arrival-of-rafale-jets/
>>46024799>France generally has the best vehicles in NATO>*Laughs in Abrams & Leopard 2*
>>46040687the Leclerc is in every way superior to both of these rolling junk piles.
>>46040647Obviously that the Rafale is the more capable plane. If Pakistan doesn't get their hands on the J-20B, there is nothing they could do about it.Though Indians will fuck it up.
>>46019340Why are modern planes so aggressively ugly, eurotrash is the worst, then slavshit, and even the historically great Americans can only make extremely bland designs like the F-22 and F-35. Is it just convergent design making everything ugly?
>>46040833You'd be saying exactly the same thing about WW2 props though, then about the 'metal tubes' o the 50's.
>>46027717The "shilling" is coming from Americans who don't want their tax money to be wasted buddy, and NATO members buying them 150-300 million per plane.No one the plane is meant to be used against cares about it.
>>46022458>doesn't look like the same guy at allpajeets can't code.
>>46041156nobody can codeeven coders can't codecoding is a conspiracy
>>46040441France has won more wars than the US ever fought>>46040833it's objectively the best-looking plane of the past 40 years though
>>46040647>Pakistan fears the mighty fleet of 5 Rafale>t.Pajeet websideYeah, no
>>46041130>150-300 million per planeRepeatedly debunked, even in this thread. e.g. >>46039849>No one the plane is meant to be used against cares about it..t Fox looking at grapes.
>>46041266>it's objectively the best-looking plane of the past 40 years thoughI don't see how anyone can say this with a straight face when it looks almost identical to the Gripen and Typhoon. It's really weird to say anything looks 'best' desu, I can't think of a single modern plane without a feature that destroys it's aesthetic>F-16Beautiful cockpit, nose and back. Utterly destroyed by the vacuum cleaner intake on the belly and the weird blocky cutoff aft section>F-35Gorgeous lines on the belly and back, overall planform looks great. Ruined by being too short, it's a stubby little tweety bird>F/A-18Overall too rounded and the weird cheek sections stick out too much.>Rafale/Typhoon/GripenFuselage cross section too rounded, no smoothing between fuselage and flight surfaces Delta/Canard configuration looks bolted on rather than part of the design. >FlankerNice curves for the most part, nose too long though and the tail boom in between the engines is absolutely disgusting. etc. etc. I can't really think of any flaws with the F-22 off the top of my head, but i'm sure someone can provide.
>>46041924The gaps between the fuselage and the intakes irritate the hell out me on the f22.
True story: my father works for Thales Avionics and actually works on training Indian Rafale pilotsWon't answer any question because this is a true story and I should avoid speaking about this in public
>>46042191how do they contain the curry diarrhea during high-g maneuvers?
>>46042445They don't. They use diapers.
let's bet on the number or days before India crashes one.My bet is less the one month.
>>46043146>commercial liquor >he doesn't exclusively drink grandpa's illegal juice that is also used to burn warts off the cows
>>46041090WW2 planes had a lot of variety once you got past the homogeneous interwar stuff. And I find most early cold war designs to be hideous beyond measure, they only started getting good in the 60s. But during each era there was at least a little bit of good stuff, now everything new is just trash.