The general for all things body armor. Daily reminder folks that DragonSkin cannot and will not ever compare to LIBA plates that weigh no more than 6.5lb for a SAPI M and can stop 20 hits of .30-06 M2AP.Discord: https://discord.gg/Az4sBHHNIJ CPL: https://www.justnet.org/app/tims/CPLReport.aspx
>>46014948Have some IIIA soft 10x12s in a cheap plate carrier and looking for something with better coverage. Is a 10x15 + ab panel the way to go or is there something bigger?
>>46015040Do you need extra coverage or just want it, aka it doesn't cover your vitals
>>46014948Does anyone have the LIBA patent?
>>46015085Here you go mate.https://patents.justia.com/patent/6112635
>>46015057Both? Mostly worried about blunt/stabbing trauma so mostly looking to cover big bleeders like kidneys and aorta. Some extra long side pads would be cool too
>>46015040Panels and plates typically max out at 15x16". I'd strongly recommend against this kind of ergonomic cut armor unless you absolutely 100% need the coverage, don't mind sticking out like a sore thumb, and don't mind the flexibility penalty.Even then, that's just your torso. According to the FBI, you're 3.1 times more likely to get hit outside the coverage of a soft armor vest (which has full torso coverage) than get your armor's threat level exceeded. Your legs, neck, arms, and head are still exposed, and attempting to armor all of them will drag you down.Stick with something concealable and avoid the fights. Armor is insurance for getting shot - a Plan B, not Plan A.
>>46015422Remember to get dedicated "multi-threat" panels. Normal soft armor, even the IIIA and IIIA+ types, cannot stop stab threats in spite of their ballistic abilities. On the other hand, pure correctional armor is either totally nonballistic or has very weak ballistic ratings. Indeed, there are correctional panels that essentially amount to NIJ-I or even NIJ-IA (lower velocity .22 "zip guns") and nothing more. Only multi-threat panels, which are considerably heavier and thicker than either of the above, can provide optimal protection against both pistol and stab threats.
>>46015433The 10xX shooters cut definitely seems to fit me. Not looking to be totally invincible, just avoid critical injuries. I can splint/suture my limbs but when shtf any injury's gonna be 100x worse. Head and neck are fucked of they get hit, padding or no>>46015475I see this getting tossed around, but I was pretty sure NIJ says that all IIIA+ is rated for trauma. And I have personally had IIIA softs between me and a kitchen knife and can attest to their protective capacity. Haven't been shot yet and not really looking forward to it
>tfw Saber probably wont be shipping my order til after November AAAAAAAAAA
>>46015946*Ouch.*GL senpai. You'll need it.
>>46015870The IIIA+ rating doesn't officially exist under the NIJ. They cap their soft armor out at IIIA. The IIIA+ panel you were looking at probably had some stab protection of its own merit and not something required by the rating.
>>46015946RMA is quick production-wise.
>>46015946Armslist and Bulletproofme.com can get you stuff quick
>>46016570Bulletproofme sells high-quality LTC and Hesco plates. Can't go wrong with em.
>>46016623Wonderful service too. I ordered a surplus vest Tuesday and it gets here Sunday
Assume the boog consists of guarding important buildings from rioters after the election. If the rioters are similarly armed to what we've seen, what should my armor loadout look like?
>>46016700>Wonderful service>Too busy to call or emailIt's happening, isn't it?
>>46016623I’ll look into bulletproofme, but it doesn’t look like they have Hesco at the moment and their level 4 ceramics are backordered til aug 15th. Thank you guys
>>46015870>I have personally had IIIA softs between me and a kitchen knifedamn anon, story?
>>46016878They called me back the next day after I left a voicemail
>>46015870Who was trying to stab you?! Were you a cop?
>>46016966>>46016992I was cutting my hotpockets in half in the lunch room and a coworker wanted to squeeze by, so I placed the long, flat side into my chest so nobody got accidentally hurt.
>>46014948i get it that rma and ar500 shill youtube. but is there anything wrong with rma? i just bought plates from them after one you guys suggested it and was feeling good about muh level iv and made in the usa meme
>It’s been 2 months since I ordered my hesco plates>mfw they still haven’t shipped
>>46017047Out of curiosity, why do you want level IV? Who do you anticipate fighting with that kind of firepower?
>>46015475Any IIIa will stop stabs and many will stop all but the stringest spike, those which don't would still be able to slow it quite a bit. Don't listen to retards
Can someone explain to me the soft armor backers and trauma pads? Are they things that are needed to accompany ceramic plates? New to the whole armor thing.
>>46015057What coverage do you imagine that wouldn't cover vitals?
>>46017112mine took 9.5 weeks
How practical are the side mounted mag pouches? Never used them before and it looks like they might be a little weird if you're used to front pouches.
>>46017173Even if armor is not penetrated it bulges on the inside and that can still kill you, as well as shards of armor flying around. that's why to meet the requirements from back face deformation you need to use something that can help absorb and spread the impact. Any steel plate requires it as well as something that catches parts of the bullet that fly when it breaks against the plate and that can kill you if you don't . This is often referred to as "spall". Spall happens with steel but Polyethylene and ceramics catch them so it's not needed. Then you still need the backer. Plates are either ICW or standalone rated, ICW means in conjunction with and means it needs a backer for its rating, it's specified and is usually a trauma plate or IIIa backer. Standalone armor you can just shove in your carrier and be done with it.
>>46017047RMA is alright aside from the 1189 and 1199 G1. Those have cheat rings.
>>46017248They mean less shit on your front - very practical. Just don't stack shit in there to the point it interferes with your arms
>>46017164Nope. You need multi-threat panels. There's a reason why the NIN has a totally separate standard for stab.
>>46017300Fuck off then, idiot larper
Are there any good Military or Police surplus mixed vests available on the market right now?By that I mean soft armor vests NIJ II rated or similar that has spots to throw plates into? seems like a good idea for civilians that don't need to be hi speed operating all day long, but instead are spending more time in a car or just standing around guarding something
>>46017265Thank you for the well written explanation.
>>46016966>>46016992Fuck 12, I'm not a fascist. Some illiterate fuck couldn't read the big "DON'T SHOOT // MEDIC" on my back and tried to shank me while I was taking gamgam's bloodsugar. If New Jersey got nuked it would raise the average the average IQ of this country by 10 points. >>46017026I do have a big scar on my leg from the time I put my knife into my thigh instead of my sheath, but they don't make armour that can block stupid
>>46017119>Who do you anticipate fighting with that kind of firepower?no fighting. fleeing the city.
>>46014948I ordered some hescos from Coolguysurplus and it's been like 3 weeks. How fucked am i?
>>46017119Nothing, he's just enother victim of bigger=better thinking. Under no circumstances that you can encounter will having a lvl IV help you over lvl III+, since the only places you'll encounter M2 ap or similar would be against military forces using a MG or marksmen, both of which are eithr not survivable or are from long enough range that lower rating will do.You're not going somewhere in the middel east now knowing what you'll face, you're on your home ground so don't be a retard and think even a little bit beyond standing in front of a mirror with an expensive toy with big numbers on it.
>>46017322What is NIJ 0115.00 for $200, Jimmy?
>>46017556Take a shot of 12 guage buck or slug with a level 3a and tell me from your iron lung how much better it is than level 4.
>>46017596>level 3a Back to your goalpost, room temp iq
>>46017596If the panel is specially tested against 12 Gauge slugs, you'll actually be just fine. A lot of people forget that soft armor is actually very strong for its weight and thickness. The only problem with it is that select pistol threats and most rifle threats are stronger. Shotguns, with the exception of some specialist slugs like the AP-20 and FIER PAR, aren't the best at beating armor.
>>46017625I meant 3+. My bad.>>46017687It wont penetrate but the kevlar will form a cavity in your chest from the force and you'll wish it did penetrate.
>>46017723That's a myth. See here:https://diamondage.org/2018/11/09/soft-body-armor-statistics/>There are instances on record where officers wearing Level IIa vests were shot with heavy rounds, resulting in backface deformation estimated to have been in excess of 80-100mm, and those officers all survived, without exception. There was even a case where an officer wearing a Level IIa vest was hit at close range with buckshot from a 12 Gauge shotgun, resulting in an estimated 131mm of backface deformation. That officer survived with minor injuries. This was reported in a paper by Bir et al., titled “Behind Armor Blunt Trauma: Recreation of Field Cases for the Assessment of Backface Signature Testing.”
>>46017749That's with immediate medical help though, internal bleeding caused by this stuff can kill you if ignored. The reason Russians use a much lower bfd standard is at least partly because of this - their medical help is much less competent and timely even in places where they do have it.
>>46017776Where will you be that you can't get to a hospital in a reasonable amount of time after getting shot at?It seems to me like wearing a fire-retardant suit in case your enemy has flamethrowers. It isn't outside the realm of possibility, but so rare that it seems like a hinderance that's not worth it(Though if it's your dream to be a counter-flame trooper then go for it of course! Your side in the boog would sure luck out if it does happen to face a flamethrower)
>>46018142In a warzone, pretty much any place where russians and those who use russian gear do any fighting. I've heard a story about that like:>russian>got shot twice, once in leg once in plate>evac'd, gear stripped>in hospital care applied>condition still bad, but medics ignore it cuz it's just shock, atibiotics or whatever>3-5 days pass>dead>autopsy shows beaten lungs and Ischemia>the endThat's why if you ever get shot and feel it or someone near you gets shot be sure to tell about the plates, mark the place where he got hit with anything(pen, iodine, blood, etc) Also, any SHTF scenario means no hospital for you, simple as that
>>46018328Internal wounds may not be easily identifyable from outside, for got to add
I just got my RMA 1155 lvl 4 plates and carrier. Am I gtg gais? Also, is there any point in buying more and stacking high like with guns, or is one set all I realistically need?
Are shellback's plates considered GTG?
>>46017265>>46017749Based helpful and well informed posters
>>46018375Only you can look at the situation you're planning for and decide what you need for it but there's a good chance you'll drop your plates if you ever need toactually move with it for any time because for that even a single 3kg plate is really a lot of weight that could be much more useful as camping supplies, food or even ammunition, in case you're not overloaded already. To answer your question, no, you're not likely to get hit in your armor and survive long enough afterwards to need a replacement, unless you're actively participating in multiple short lasting firefights it's liekly to be a hindrance at all and even if you want to use it unless you're arming other people with spearate complete sets of gear(which means chest rig is way higher priority, for example), at which point it might if you can afford it, which you might not unless you have unlimited budget and already got way more important and valuable stuff.
Does anyone sell decent soft armor for thighs or legs? I can't find any and I feel like I'm just begging to take one right in the femoral artery
>>46017405>Some illiterate fuck couldn't read the big "DON'T SHOOT // MEDIC" on my back and tried to shank me while I was taking gamgam's bloodsugarWere you mistaken for a cop? that's fucking hilarious
>>46018651I wonder how many of these fuckers got wounded or killed because the retard crowd turned on their own
how long for AT armor to ship IIIa+ Hesco
>>46018690>>46018651Getting mistaken for a pig at riots?Never. In """low income neighborhoods"""?1 in 5 calls no matter how many times I yell and point at my big white bus
>>46019049monkey marshall got attacked by retards when he wetnt to suck bbc in chaz
Ive seen the designs and patents for the LIBA here a few times, and I think that could be homebrewed and tailored to fit. Ragnar Benson was able to do DIY claymores, I think you could do DIY LIBA very similar. Does anyone have any concrete objections, or has anyone tried this?
>>46019501A guy tried it a while back and had trouble finding legit ceramic pellets. That's the hard part.
>>46019501Unless you have experience in making stuff in some way, especially with resins and molds you're unlikely going to pull it off and even if it manages to stop bullets at some point it won't be reliable enough since it's handmade. i wouldn't use it even if my testing showed it working decently over a plate because a plate is guaranteed to work is more valuable than one that might have some practical advantages like weight or flexibility. It's a neat thing and trying it out and making it work in laboratory conditions is a great part and would probably be very interesting.
>>46018410Yes, they're resold RMA.
>>46018693It'll be a while. Everyone is backordered to hell and they're prioritizing cops.
>>46019605This exactly. To demonstrate viability on par with an NIJ-certified plate, you gotta submit several dozens copies, all identical, to a testing lab like Chesapeke or OBL.
>>46019579I think you could do that yourself, also. I know people who do DIY pottery and ceramics, who have kilns in the basement. Uses the same power hookup as a dryer. Maybe its the gregtech and Poor Mans James Bond coming out, but I'm pretty sure a well-equipped anon could pull it off. Ill investigate industrial and homebrew ceramics for a bit, then report back what I find. If TouYubers can make uranium in their kitchen and get busted for it, ceramics can be done. Its one of the worlds oldest crafts.
>>46020216not all ceramics is created equal. Do you really believe you can just make proper pure and well shaped boron carbide at home?
>>46020270B4C isn't needed. It's the lightest and hardest of the three basic ceramics, but Alumina is a lot cheaper.
>>46014948Looking to get a plate carrier to switch off from my vest for work/courses? Any recommendations in the 150-200 dollar range? Just want a minimalist look.
>>46016983Same, recently got a vest from them too
At what point would you consider soft armor probably expired? I have an army surplus interceptor vest made in 2007. Is it probably ballisticaly worthless or at least degraded?
>>46021184Tests have been conducted on several decade-old soft armor held in storage and they've all held up. The only armor materials that actively age are early polyethylene and any Zylon or Z-SHIELD. Absolutely avoid Zylon or Z-SHIELD. Your stuff is probably aramid, so it's rock solid.
>>46021184It depends on how it was stored, even if it wsa worn, 10 years won't degrade its performance significantly as 5 year warranty is for the vest to keep performance, not just stay together. There have been vests >20yo that held their protective qualities since kevlar is decently sturdy and stable material despite being vulnerable to water.
>>46021210It's not UHMWPE that ages but rather the adheisive that holds the sheets of it together. It's also the thing that fails in hot weather first, not the material itself. Zylon used to be used in armor as it has theoretical strength higher than even UHMWPE but it quickly degraded after even low exposure to moisture like sweat so vest showed significant degradation after as soon as 6 months. It's bright gold rather than kevlar's paleish yellow and while there are some vests still popping here and there no more armor is produced with it so it's pretty rare nowadays.
>>46021184They are only required to put a life span on it because of the life insurance companies. Mechanical wear will disrupt the lay of the fibers, exposure to direct sunlight will degrade the compounds that let the Kevlar be worked like a fiber, spun and woven. Beyond these two factors, there is no shelf life. No expiry if not used.>>46020394>>46020270So, after a bit of looking, alumina could be done at home. It would require a wasteful amount of time and money, and its definetely not as simple as glass or pottery. Material purity also has an effect on the product. You would almost need to be an industrial buyer to get the right stuff. I think a better option would be to put together a list of industrial ceramic refineries that make alumina ceramic, develop a job for them, and then have a stockpile of ~100,000 little beads that are guaranteed to be correct. If you were going to do that, you might also investigate wether other ceramics would be a better quality, and wether it would justify the increase in price. (Probably not). The companies that are making LIBA for the market might not even have exclusivity arrangements. You could poach the components from an upstream manufacturer.
>>46018142That feel when I actually know a guy who bought that stupid XM21 flamethrower
>>46014948Is there any commercial availability of armor that is over level 4 and if so where can I get it? I can order off Galls of that helps. Already have a set of hesco 4400 but I'm looking to upgrade. Trying to read the /bag/ thumbnail but its soooooo blurry
>>46021527Nope. There's an industry agreement to not sell anything higher than multi-hit Level IV or B32 API-rated IV+ to civs. Stronger plates have to be acquired second-hand.
>>46021527google 50 bmg armor
>>46021639Where to buy second hand ? Gunbroker? And just look for the plates in OPs pic like the X sapi? Also what the duck is up with the FRAS by safelife? Fake?
>>46021639this is bullshit
>>46021714Yeah, it is. The industry is not friendly to civs.>>46021711Correct. FRAS is Chinese-material dragonskin.
FYI, Highcom plates are in stock and ready to ship at Tristate Armor.
>>46021639Why is that? Are armoermakers some ultrafudds or are there any other reasons for that?
>>46021785Is FRAS really chinkshit? I know not to trust jewtuber reviews but the product seemed reasonably effective. Probably wouldn't last long term use without the glued tiles falling off though
>>46017119Continental US has a lot of firepower to the point where 3+ protection may be defeated by commonly available and fielded rounds. That’s my thinking, anyway.
>>46017556>This buttfucker doesn’t realize how many weapons are in circulation in the continental US that exceed a 3+ rating
>>46017556AP 30-06 is all over this country
>>46017556>having a lvl IV help you over lvl III+How about 9mm poking holes in your 3a?https://youtu.be/UaPgNErACgg?t=339
>>46022173>>46022110There are not threats that are in common circulation and are likely to be encountered. Unless you piss off some elmer with his durr rifle with some old box of m2 you encountering it at distances where it would actually pierce your armor is improbable if not impossible. Bullets lose velocity when flying. Now kill yourself.
>>46022291I swear when did Africans got connected internet? Noone elsewhere can be this dumb.
>>46021913Wait for an NIJ cert and for long term reports from cops.
>>46022173Most of it is fake. Everybody can buy black nail polish and put it on M80 or M2 FMJ.
>>46022291Dude level 3 is different from 3A. Level 3 refers to hard armor that is lighter weight and shot than lvl 4 3A is soft armor rated for magnum pistol roundsAn ez mistake for NEWFREN on his obummerphone
>>46022462They are mad because they see themselves in the description of a drooling retard in that post.
>>46022388Is this real? Wouldn't you buy sleciality ammo from a reputable manufacturer and not your redneck neighbor? Man fudds are something elseLike why not just buy something like this https://www.outdoorlimited.com/rifle-ammo/30-06-ammo/surplus-usgi-st-louis-odr-30-06-m2-black-tip-armor-piercing-ammunition-20-rounds/
>>46022496The most reliable way to get the ammo is to buy bullets and reload, the boomer jews don't fuck with these it seems. Also, just check with magnet when buying
Armor newfag here. After lurking armor threads for a while it seems like IIIA is generally accepted as suitable for most scenarios. That said, what’s the best way to go about it? Should I shell out for an all-in-one vest or get the soft panels separate and pick a carrier? Also is there any benefit to a IIIA hard plates over soft armor?
>>46022599Hard plates can't be stabbed through as easily and have less backface deformation. They are sometimes made from heavier materials but there also are some that are made from UHMWPE which is llighter. In some cases, like the latter, they can also be above their armor rating but not quite lvl 3, some companies make lightweight plates that are "IIIA+" and rated to stop 300blk or 7.62x39mm but not 5.56/308. For carrier, you can get one with molle and attach mag pouches or go old school and use a rig over it. It's how it was used with flak vests, it was sometimes preferred with IBA cause mounting on it wasn't that great and it's sometimes more comfy as it's positioned better and spreads weight more evenly. It's mostly personal preference.Also, IIIa is generally not suited to any kind of rifle ammo and is sometimes defeated by even pistol caliber carbines. It's good against regular pistols but if you're expecting to be shot at rifles are a very common threat.
>>46022723Awesome, good insight. I think I’ll check out some hard plates in a carrier then. Are RMA 1155 Level IV plates a decent first plate? Also is a trauma pad/soft armor backer a meme or legit? I can’t tell if they’re actually useful or if the armor companies are trying to get every last penny out of me.
>>46022943read this >>46017265 tl;dr if it's ICW it needs backing, if standalone it does not.if you are set on lvl IV it's probably gonna do ok
>>46018493>but there's a good chance you'll drop your plates if you ever need toactually move with it for any time because for that even a single 3kg plate is really a lot of weight that could be much more useful as camping supplies, food or even ammunition, in case you're not overloaded already.its worth noting you can cut down weight in all these areas by following ultralight backpacking guides. when i started backpacking i had a 33lb pack, since then ive gotten it down to 13lbs.
>>46023136Cutting weight to haul your plates sounds like training running to break your legs
>>46022723Right. 5.56 M193 can defeat 200 layers of kevlar. IIIA panels are usually only 35.
>>46023651It's not because kevlar's weak but because the panels are made of woven fiber strands and this means that pointed bullets can just push inbetween without tearing them. That's why fort scott ammo is so good and why kevlar is so far apart from rifle plates. Epoxied helmets that are more rigid can handle such threats substantially better, for example someone on tfb(iitc) tested one against 5.7 and it stopped ss190 out of pistol and mostly out of p90 and those go fast, have steel core and are quite pointy.
>>46023758Another concern is material. Polyethylene soft armor is a lot better than aramid against faster and more penetrative pistol rounds. Check out their v50s. Big difference!
>>46021876They're concerned that if they deal XSAPI "Level V" to civs, the plates will proliferate and suddenly everyone will have XSAPIs in the sandbox. In the domestic area, feds would lose their armor advantage.
RMA 1092 are level IV at 5lb per plate for $600. Too good of a deal?
>>46017300>NIN has a totally separate standard for stabRedpill me on Nine Inch Nails and stab vests.
Is Hoplite overpriced?
>>46024503Nine inch Nails first two albums are really solid.
>>46024362Oh no ! They will lose advantage of less people DYING while shot What a cucked fuxking reasoning I swear anons if I ever get rich and shit Im making the level 5 armor company FUCK ME
>>46024531Head Like a Holeblack as your soulI'd rather buy Level 3than give you control
If I wear concealable low pro IIIA soft armor vest under my iv plates and carrier will I be gaining anything worth the weight?
plate autist, did you see the new 4601 and 3612? They say they're getting spec sheets in september
>>46024537It's stupid but I can understand an armor manufacturer being worried about getting bad press when someone goes active decked out in their armor and no one can stop them.
>>46025122With level IV not likely. I'd expect you'd just get fatigued more rapidly from the heat and weight. It enhances some level 3 and special threat rated plates to cover vulnerability holes, like m80 for l210 or m855 for 3800s.
>>46014948why is everything in these gear threads shilled around lvl 4 rifle plates and carriers? that shit has a place but what about the far more common threats from everyday street crime and thugs?why does nobody here care about soft armor that protects way more of your body from the most common threats you will realistically face (9mm from a jiggaboo)
>>46025742because people aren't buying armor for niggers they're buying armor for something else
>>46019049>"""low income neighborhoods"""?>1 in 5 calls no matter how many times I yell and point at my big white busand yet you're still a commiecant fix stupid, i guess
>>46025742>why are you preparing for the worst? that's not the american way!>you should only prepare for a sunny day
>>46024531I, Ordered HESCOs today,to see if I feel,I, Focus on the delays,The only thing thats real,The backorder tears a hole,the 2020 sting,Want to kill glowies all day,But I remember everything,What I have become?My nigger friends,Every thing I own is LARPing in the end,You can have it all, My gear free of dirt,I can't run a mile,Yaoi makes you spurt,If I could get a case,Of MK 262 today,I would post it on Armslist,and Boomer gouge away,
At what distance can a IIIA helmet stop 5.56?
>>46017503Very fucked because it looks like you were born with too many chromosomes and don't understand that there's a shortage, a crisis, and panic buying, and that short time you've waited is nothing by comparison.
>>46021527what about that dragonskin shit that gets memed? who sells that
>>46026034>what about that dragonskin shit that gets memed?Bro it isn't 2007 anymore. No one has memed, shilled, advertised, recommended or so much as said anything positive about dragon skin in a decade.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Skin
>>46026057sorry i still live in the past im a mid 30s boomer
>>46018651You are provideing a service for the state, that makes you a state agent or and acting on the side of police who are enforcing state edicts.All in all it breaks down to tribal sides. Government and their enforcers on one side the hood and crime money on the other.The only winning move is not to play.
>>46026034Pinnacle Armor used to. It is now made and sold by Phoenix Armor, which claims to have refined it substantially but doesn't have any proof yet.
>>46021221Those old vests were built to .04 NIJ standards.Amost twice as tough as .06 NIJ standards.Vests are getting weaker not stronger.NIJ is about selling product, not about safety or even about a good product.Its all very criminal when you get into the weeds of it.
>>46025740Thanks thought it might be over board.I'll just spend it on more plates.
>>46026161What? 0101.06 actually added a proper conditioning standard. 0101.04 and 0101.03 allowed Zylon armor that expired in four months right through.
>>46027035You're not talking to someone intelligent, unfortunately.
>>46024362But is anyone even carrying lvl 5 among them? lvlv 4 is already more than enough for pretty much any situation and it's literally everywhere.
>>46025822>dude you don't get it you NEED these expensive plates, how else are you gonna survive in a defensive situation against 15 armed attackers with AP ammo dudeAre armor jews shilling their products on 4chan?
>>46027108Yes. Ace Link Armor makes its rounds every so often, along with a band of discouraged AR500 shills.
>>46022599Best thing to do is go look at the offerings of a REPUTABLE armor manufacturer like Hesco or AT Armor that gets their products NIJ CERTIFIED. Evaluate which hard plates or soft armor products defeat the threats you are likely to face/worried about facing, and select one which balances the need for protection with mobility/weight concerns and price. Learn about the different materials they are made of (don’t bother with steel if you like being alive), basically UHMWPE and ceramic, and how to take care of them. For example, do not store poly plates in very hot conditions for extended periods unless you want them to degrade, and do not bang around ceramic plates recklessly unless you want them to fracture. Also learn about the different cuts and sizing. Typically, the size of your plate will determine the size of the plate carrier you buy (small = small, shmedium = shmedium, etc.). Shooter’s cut and swimmer’s cut plates have their corners cut at more extreme angles and therefore may not fit in all plate carriers unless they are purpose-built for them. Also, you will want multicurve plates. You can get by with single-curves like Hesco L210’s but multicurves are much better. Lastly, please choose good quality plates and a good quality PC, there are far too many reputable brands out there with offerings at every price point for you to end up buying some chinkshit. Save if you have to. Good luck and be smart.
>>46027076US troops that were deployed to Iraq post-2012 received XSAPIs instead of ESAPIs. FBI tactical units were using LTC 28601 standalone XSAPIs as far back as 2014. Austrian Jagdkommandos used Level V M993-rated LIBA twenty years ago. SOCOM's GEN-V TSA, the LTC 28595, is also rated for M993. Level V plates rated for M993 are all over and have been around for decades, just hidden from the limelight.
>>46027237>>46022599and to actually answer your question, IIIA is fine if you’re mostly worried about pistol threats; I would go for an wrap-around soft vest if I were dead-set on it, but hard plates will offer more stab resistance if you are concerned with that.
>>46027249I still think it's not a good idea and would likely be a sunstantial burden, it is already actually. Hauling tons of gear to the point of health damage is only gonna reduce combat effectiveness of the soldier using that gear. The weight increase from lvl 4 to lvl is not that big but it's almost entirely just spending for the sake of it, as even when encountering m2, let alone m993, it's either snipers, DMRs or MGs, all of which are either not survivable at close range or come from longer range where even lower rated armor would work and xsapi would work vs anything but pissibly 50bmg.Swat units are a very different story since they only need their gear for a short time so they can afford to walk in even in a blast suit. Know russian helmet Altyn? The thing weights 4kg and is not recommended for wearing longer than 45mins due to the strain that hauling it on yourself brings. They also specify wearing 2.5kg helmet for >2h and so on. These standards are actually pretty interesting.
>>46027341The XSAPI is, in the grand scheme of things, still very weak. 6.8mm XM1184 will pierce it. 7.62x51 Swiss P AP will pierce it, any .338 AP will pierce it, and any ADVAP will pierce it good. 7N37 will handle it good.
>>46027341You know what's worse for your health? A bullet going into your body.
Many Level V plates are actually very light. The Hesco 4520 only weighs 5.4lb and the LTC 28595 only weighs 4.75lb.
>>46017405>fuck 12>I'M A MEDICkek so you are larping faggot who sides with psychotic retards who can't read and you are shocked when one of them tries to stab you
>>46025731yeah well freedom isn't freegive me all that bad press I bet it will drive sales lol
>>46027371Yeah, but these standards are for the very worst case scenario, as it seems only human body armor is stuck with it, while vehicle armor, old and new helmets, fortifications actually think of the range. Yeah, xsapi's not gonna stop a point blank .338 lm but can you really imagine 338 being used in cqb and not from at least 100m? Helmets and ammo development revovled around each other for a long time and for a while the goal was penetrating/stopping x round at x00 meters/yards. That's how 7.62NATO got adopted, that's what 5.56 and then M855 were introduced for and the very same process in reverse was true for helmets. Yet in the armor plates we insist that every encounter must happen at 90 degree angle, point blank and penetration is the only thing that we care about. In tanks sloped armor was used since ww2, ceramics and uncompressed UHMWPE do slow the bullet without making the wound after penetration worse and significantly reduce its effectiveness, sometimes to the point of pistol rounds or below. Cover and time to get to it are not a factor and even concealment or any kind of standoff destabilizes bullets and either deflects them or at least turns them sideways where even a soft armor insert will have an easy time stopping them.I'm not even touching the topic of overall plate effectiveness in covering vitals, like shooters stance that has a large shoulder area that's usually covered by soft armor at best or shooting prone where the armor would be almost hrisontal to ground. There also are plenty of other threats besides bullets that are much more present, namely explosives and fragments that have been taking many more lives ever since ww1 and to this day, with the ever present threat of ieds being even more common.All of these things could drastically change the approach to armor and allow much more flexible and manageable solutions while still keeping up or even increasing soldiers' survivability in the field.
>>46027382You have to be over 21 to be allowed to post here.
>>46027487Basically, yeah depleted uranium felchettes exist but are they a common threat on the battlefield? No. Armor effectiveness is based not just on its rating but also on its coverage as well as its ability to fit into soldier's overall equipment. Current rifle plates usually barely cover the vitals directly up front and are more suited to door kicking that the ever changing and moving battlefield, not to say they are useless, they are obviously not.
>>46014948Is velocity systems a reputable brand? Was looking into their rifle plate (Multi hit 7.62x39 api BZ )
>>46027495Funny, you don't seem to actually have the intelligence as expected of a 21 year old. What you're basically arguing is that "you THINK" its a bad idea, and then vomit out all your wondrous Wikipedia summary knowledge about all the things that would make such armor protection not worthwhile. This also comes with the implication that those units that used them outside of a short-term context were just doing it for shits and giggles; they were just being dumb and you're the genius layman who can easily see all those obvious problems that they couldn't.Let me tell you as an over-21: You still haven't reached mental maturity yet. Wait about 5 years and try again.
I fucked up a long time ago and got some AR500 shit on a BOGO sale. The PC is actually not bad but should I just go for broke and try again? Is UHMWPE a good option? What plate carrier should I get?
>>46027820Your words would hold more weight if you actually bothered to read my post instead of spewing insults like a mouthbreathing retard. I'll address the few points you actually made.>What you're basically arguing is that "you THINK" its a bad ideaAs opposed to what? Mil jews THINK it's a good idea? I take no shame in thinking, unlike you.>This also comes with the implication that those units that used them outside of a short-term context were just doing it for shits and gigglesThis statement comes with an implication that those units who are actually using they have any say in what gear they get.There's nothing else of any substance in your post and you being mad means that you've got nothing when your copied beliefs are challenged on any grounds beyond primitive libel.
>>46014948Just stopping in to say I'll put a hollowpoint in the kneecap of any fucker waddling around in a plate carrier, enjoy death.
>>46027965>he doesn't know i use custom made lvl 6 reactive armor nipple covers as regular part of my raiding gear
>>46027965>hitting anything with a handgunsquare_range_memes_123_dot.png.jpeg
>>46014948>tfw living in Europe>tfw I can get 2 Polish Surplus Steel LvL IV plates for 150€ on a good day>tfw when I can get a Polish plate carrier with kevlar for 125€>tfw helping out ship to Ameribro friends so they don't have to buy inferior protection for 600 dollars + 150 dollars tax
>>46028141Based anon selling potmetal to newguns for fat cash
>>46015095>be /k/ anon 2014>suggest the composite plates might be a good idea for higher resistance>boomer anons scream “SO YOU WANT TO WEAR TANK ARMOR, WHY NOT MOUNT 50 BMG ON YOURSELF”>turns out they made composite armorFuck spergy boomer posters
>>46027965Sure you would yob, alongside with fucking my hot sister and becoming a billionare
>>46028045>confessing to using a PCCthat's even worse. There are many legitimate uses for pistols, but PCCS are retarded for combat in every way.
>>46028262Then go stand in front of one, sweet little child
>>46027487Many of the latest APs prioritize piercing specific grades of armor at long range. XM1184 requires piercing Level IV at 600 meters. As for armor, you're incorrect in assuming it's all point blank. The LSAPI has standoff protection against X and Y threats while GOST-rated military plates have loads of standoff ratings, such as .338LM FMJ at 200 meters for 6A.
>>46027871Avoid UHMWPE plates that lack a ceramic strike face. You can pierce many of them with SS190 or 5.56 M855.
>>46028374Ok, thanks for the insight. I didn't know that.
eurofag here, I would like to buy hesco 3+ or 4, but i can only find special threat plates.Since ITAR fucks me over, is there any euro manufacturer /k/ considers worthy ?
>>46028262>i will only be engaged by pistol calibers>no one who wants to hurt me would ever own a centerfire rifleWhy even own body armor if you think your imagination can protect you?
>>46028388No problem. Keep in mind that the 6.8mm NGSW APs are going to resemble .338LM APs in terms of capability and that they will be used in close quarters should the NGSW be adopted. With every major country packing a post-M993 penetrator, it's about time the US looks into a post-XSAPI plate. Their latest research in Boron Suboxide seems to suggest that, with XTEK and the work under TALOS being their angle towards improving coverage.You strike a good point calling out fragmentation as a critical threat. That is why Russia is now producing soft armor fragsuits. Many of those are also rated up to GOST-2, so they will be very difficult to beat with pistols.
Fun fact. Both the US and Russia now have an AP 9x19mm. The American one is M1196, the Russian one is 7N31M. They are both capable of piercing any known soft armor.
>>46028483any info on m1196?
>>46028420Buy polish surplus plates, you can get a set of level 4 for about 150€, there are also Lubawa police ones out there for the same price but are smaller with better padding.
>>46028586do you know where to buy them from ?
>>46016722Join the feds and ask your supervisor, faggot. Nobody except for bootlicking militiacucks care about protecting government buildings.
>>46016722so your idea of the “boog” is protecting... the state’s property...kill yourself
>>46028443I feel if this arms race for armor penetration is going to continue we may end up just leaving the rifle armor behind and going back to simple frag protection since armor would only work beyond small arms effective range without weighing like half the full gear. Coverage may be lacking if modern plates but side plates do a job fine so it's mostly the yoke/shoulders/groin/femoral/neck/head that are vulnerable and something like TALOS wouldn't be much help. We'd be lucky to cover them well with frag protection.as our modern carriers with frag modules are still missing some of these areas. TALOS seems like a cool technology for the reason that it can be much easier to produce large volume of large plates of different shapes easier since you need beads in resin instead of a mosaic of plates, as well as being more impact resistant. These russian frag suits aren't really that protective and are at best used as a fire resistant suit, they seem to use very similar plate carrier+frag modules setup although usually favoring a bit more coverage and less connectors.The harder parts of armor is not making it cover more but being able to carry that additional coverage. A secondary issue is ovreheating that's present with high coverage armor but russians seems to have found a way to deal with that by using these as armor backers. They both reduce the blunt trauma and help ventillation even when made in rigid foam and not airmesh. In practice they're still using them to prevent trauma mainly though, funnily.
>>46021527Tap the bag image and open in new tab, remove the m from the URL if it shows.
>>46014948If the Condor Gunner is an acceptable entry carrier, is Multicam® worth the $30 exttra bucks?
>>46024537It's even more buggered when you consider post Threat Level Five plates like the AA4, FREELY AVAILABLE...
>>46029079obviously not for professional use, but it's enough for the occasional range training and lulz/nigger defense.if you want to upgrade, they really don't depreciate
>>46028913No communist the idea is to kill you In Minecraft of course
>>46014948I've been looking at Hesco L210's for general usage. My buddy is a cattle rancher and I occasionally help walk the perimeter to repair fencing and patrol for thieves. Realistically, the highest threat I'd face would be 30-06. Any recommendations or would those suffice?
>>46029555This one is not rated for m80 which is your highest threat(as regular 30-06 is pretty much equivalent to it). It will likely stop it but not pass the backface deformation standard. It's not that light but the price is ok. If you're not worried about steel core ammo i'd suggest UHMWPE armor as it's easier to haul around and, if there's water nearby, floats. If you might encounter m855 these plates still often stop it from non 20" barrels so it's still most likely fine. If you're concerned about something else then composite ceramic plates can also deal with slower steel penetrators. For your highest threat lvl 3 would suffice, look at how much you are ready to spend and how much you value the weight of your gear and check reputable manufacturers for something that fits you most.
>>46017503It took a month for mine to arrive so be patient young brainlet.
>>46029769The one with "gunner" in the name
>>46027920>implication that those units who are actually using they have any say>they are ALL dumb and me the genius layman can clearly see all the mistakes they're making
>>46028965You could be the poorfag country that dropped armor for Agility Build memes, or you could be the rich country that goes all in for powered exos.With the extremely bulky final TALOS prototype before it dropped off the Earth, I don't see how they wouldn't have been able to provide that amount of coverage. The chestplate looked to be one big solid piece already that could have extra segments attached to cover those other angles. Well, the thing was grossly incomplete anyway and didn't cover the stomach at all.
>>46029793Sentry Multicam or Tan Gunner
>>46029157Please stop namefagging.
>>46017246Heh, that's nothing kiddo. My order from Widwest Armor from 5 months ago still hasn't shipped.
>>46029867Powered exos are a very unusual think kind of unlike anything we've had before outside of these mini tankettes that fit into a doorway maybe. It kind of blending the line between infantry and vehicles. I don't know much on the topic and only imagined "pure" infantry scenario.Coverage is great and making it into shape is a huge step up but making it into a certain shape and making it flex as needed are different problems and armor this thick would get in the way if placed on the groin or shoulders without some very very smart design. Protecting the neck also seems problematic with such a thing, so the only places where it can realistically expand coverage over regular SAPI+side plates shape is towards the shoulders so it's M shaped instead of D shaped as well as gaps between plates without becoming pic related future warrior
>>46028420BAO send to Europe
>>46030003Also, maybe something from pic related could be more affordable but it'd still weigh like a boat anchor
>>46029769>>46029793>>46029465>>46029079Or a few bucks more and get the AR500 Veritas?
>>46017556There are a decent amount of III+ plates that have been blown through by m193. That is an extremely common round among civilians in the US. Also the government is shooting M855A1 which is pretty much guaranteed to blow through 3+ plates. This round can also be purchased in bulk by civilians.
>>46030005according to their page they cannot ship armor abroad
Is LBX G2G?
>>46030316III+ plates can only be beat up by M193 if they're steel. M193 beats steel, M855 beats poly, you need M855A1 to beat ceramic III, but it can handle steel and poly III+ too.M1159, the new 5.56 ADVAP that'll replace M995, is powerful enough to defeat Level IVs.
>>46030399What are some plates that can stop multi-hit m855a1?
>>46030003What? Protecting the neck is as simple as a wide gorget and heavy helmet combination. The only reason your image shows a design that restricts neck movement is because the person is not wearing any sort of support (ie the exo) and so will be wearing a very normal ballistic helmet that won't offer any coverage to his jawline. The soft armor collar has to reach up as high as possible to compensate and being soft it has to wrap around the neck as its support structure.A hard exo offers much more options because it is its own support structure not dependent on the human body, which helps prevent it from restricting movement. There will still be some measure of mobility reduction with solid metal plates covering the body but if it worked for people in Medieval ages who had to swing around melee weapons then it will work for us today with guns.40k human armor design is in general pretty good. Simple but has sufficient flexibility and covers all the important bits, and isn't filled with a dozen meaningless greeble details per panel. The new Primaris scouts are also much slimmer and are more representative of what power armor would look realistically look like, purely looking at proportions here. It won't make you too big to fit inside a door; you'd have to create a ridiculously oversized suit with absurdly thick plates for that to happen.
>>46030316It really depends on the plate. m193 is known to get through steel quite well, while pretty much any UHMWPE will stop it. M855 and to greater extent M855A1 are the opposite - they have a great advantage over pure UHMWPE but the former can't get through steel plates that well, although a few plates still manage to just barely stop it from carbine length barrels. M855A1 is a powerful round and can get through a lot of different armors but there are composite plates that combine UHMWPE with ceramics that can handle it without going into LVL 4, although they are heavier than pure UHMWPE ones. Here's a video of an example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73_ShJ8__6M
>>46029079Depends on what environment and what you're gonna have under/over it
>>46030469I'll trust you on that, i'm really not familiar with powered armor tech and ideas nor these means to support weight of equipment. The best i know is burgonet that rests on the shoulders instead of the head and braces impact as an advanced late medieval/renaissance helmet.
>>46030459Hesco U210 is one. The LTC 28720 is another.
>>46030471That's tactical scorpion gear, a known dealer in Chinese plates. I would take that video with a side of salt due to the low sample size of one.
>>46030549It's just one i quickly googled rn, i don't have any saved links on me but >>46030537 pointed out a few and if you look a bit more you'll find other tests.
>>46030513Well, its not like the technology is currently going anywhere as per public knowledge. The Talos porject was canned quite some time ago. However the general concept is sound and that's all I'm conveying. Powered exos exist after all and powered armor is just exos with armor plates bolted on.The idea of an exoskeleton is that there's a metal frame wrapping around you down to your feet. It has its own power source and motors of some kind to move, and it mimics your own movements. Since the frame touches the ground and supports its own weight, your body does not necessarily need to support anything. Plates of armor can hang off the frame wherever it is convenient, so it could have both coverage and no restriction of mobility.
>>46028653honestly I could get you in contact with a store, however it's in the Czech republic and I already told to a friend in America I would do it for him, I don't want them to go out of stock.Otherwise just look around in British tacshit, surplus and weapons shops, maybe some other European surplus stores and see if they have them.Otherwise some might be on E-bay, I saw a WZ93 polish flak armour there both with kevlar and the plates, but it just takes effort to find. Weaponsandstuff93 made a video testing it with a warhammer and they passed, not a great test but it proves its not brittle junk.
Any info on those manufacturers ?https://www.vestguard.co.uk/vestguard-ballistic-hard-armour-plates.htmlhttps://cs-store.gr/product-category/body-armor-systems/?lang=enhttp://www.proammo.cz/en/ballistic-protection/http://www.argun.cz/en/products/hard-ballistic-plates-22
>>46030817understood, do you have any good local manufacturer who might export their goods ?I found proammo and argun via Google, but I have never heard of them.
>>46029867I thought agility build was a meme untill i realized that for the weight of 2 plates you could give everyone an free RPG or CG with spare ammo and a bunch of other stuff. It's still silly thinking that undressing makes you faster but whe nyou set a certain limit after which short- or long-term mobility is impaired it starts to sound viable.
>>46030624TALOS isn't dead. It's now an array of polyethylene plates that go all around the body.>>46030954The problem with going armor-free is that it makes you a glass cannon. Sure, you can carry a Carl Gustaf and crack off a round with it, but you're liable to get hosed by another guy's Carl Gustaf and his fragmentation.Either way, you're not going to equal a combat vehicle in firepower, so you gotta take what you can get and optimize for what infantry can actually do. That means a mix of armor and attack.
>>46030928>manufacturerI dont think you actually understood me pal, the plates are surplus which is why it's being sold for cheap.I would buy them from ZelenySport, there are both front and back ballistic plates sold there, the set for about 150-160€ iirc.I don't think they have any english speaking employees tho, which is why I'm contacting them for my friend.
>292 soldShould I?
>>46031204You don't have to be armor free, i was mostly talking about plates. Fragmentation sucks and isn't going anywhere, nor should people go into any kind of conventional combat without protection from it
>>46031242Is that a solo or do you need a backing plate?
>>46031274No worries, it won't work either way
>>46031247The problem with that is the emergence of armor-piercing fragmentation. The new XM1166 HEAB 40mm grenade has the ability to pierce Level III armor with its fragmentation. Fragsuits ain't gonna do jack against that.
>>46031439Is there range on that? modern frag suits also can't deal with heavy fragments from larger munitions but we seem to manage somehow
>>46017367Not him, but read and reread the NIJ Standard until you understand it all.
>>46031274You'd still need a trauma pad>>46031304Hmm,
>>46031304Few pennies off from LAPoliceGear
>>46031274That is a raw ceramic tile, not a finished plate.
>>46031602>Hmm,It is not a plate. It is only a component of a plate. It needs other components to function properly. Simple as.
>>46031439That's cool but you're gonna be facing 10x as much IEDs as a single airburst munition of any kind at worst, and all the older military stuff isn't going anywhere either. One new technology won't make decades of practice and experience irrelevant, at least not in this case.
>>46031222they look nice, but since it is steel I would need some kevlar backing to absorb the spaling of a hit.
>>46030365The best airshit available.
>>46031466Just close range, likely 25-40 meters. Tungsten fragmentation grenades are starting to show up all over. You've got the south koreans with the K413, General Dynamics with the GD OTS, SSK with a 40mm airburst with 400+ tungsten balls, et cetera.>>46031723Wait for those to get adapted to IEDs.
>>46031639And those wouldn't need a backer.Tempting
>>46031866Tungsten in IEDs? Sounds fishy
>>46030537Do you have more information on the U210? Haven’t been able to find much online.
>>46031917Soon as artillery shells with tungsten preformed fragments show up and fall off a truck, it's fair game.>>46032005Here you go chief. It's the reduced backer version of the 4600, just as the L210 is the reduced backer 4400 (they share the ceramic strike face but have much less backer, so they can't absorb higher energy threats like their Level IV counterparts). The reduced-backer 4800 is called the 3885, and isn't a civie accessible model.https://store.atarmor.com/Hesco_U210_Special_Threat_plate_p/hs-u210.htm
>>46030954What two plates are you talking about? The Gustaf M4 model weighs in at 6.6 kilos, not counting the ammunition. Agility builds as you describe mean that you're giving up your protection to carry a rocket launcher of some kind, disposable or not. Meanwhile the strength build has armor and the launcher, plus he's not THAT much slower than you are.Remember that the exo strength build has the suit carry the weight for the user. That means he doesn't get tired for as long as his fuel/battery lasts, which can be as long as the IFV he's attached to has fuel. Then its possible that tactically he's actually much faster because he can ignore the threat of intermediate caliber firearms and light fragmentation, so you can't control his maneuvers and suppress him while he can easily do the same to you./bag/'s really about what you can buy as a civilian but speculating is fun.>>46031204Has it? I haven't read anything recent about it.
Anything wrong with Hesco 4401?10" x 12" SAPI (Shooter's) CutSingle Curve0.9" in thick
>>46020621slickster or perroz designs pc
>>46032853Rock solid pick.>>46033441Don't bank on IIIA of any kind stopping rifle threats. Sure, a helmet can from time to time, but not at a distance.
>>46033760Good stuff! I hope you never have to use them.
>>46033760Damnit. That's the same price as the Chinese shit on ebay
>>46034055and it's NIJ-certified too, from a quality manufacturer. None of that Botach cheat-ringin' business.
>>46021283i have a pair of hesco level iii uhmwpe plates i just got. how long would they last if properly stored before the adhesive fails?
>>46032853they’re not multicurve but they’re fine
>>46033273Everything i wanted was sold out. Ended up going with a chase tactical bpc carrier . Any thoughts on chase tactical?
>>46034170They're the primary dealer for Highcom's wares. Their rep is great, nobody has heard anything bad about them.
I have an older model carrier and my plates sit too low in it. The top of my front plate is roughly 2 inches below my sternal notch, and I know it is supposed to be at most 1 inch. Anyone have any suggestions as to how I can get my plates to sit higher in their pouches without adding significant weight or bulk?
>>46034343Alright thats good. Please educate me on this highcom wares. What and who are they?
>>46034365I have a lot of experience with older model carrier. What you need to do is insert tab A into slot 14, then you'll be good to go.
>>46034376Highcom is one of the Big Seven armor manufacturers in the US. The others are Ceradyne, LTC, TenCate, Hesco, BAE, and RMA. Their rep is solid and their 4SAS7 is a law enforcement workhorse. They have a wide variety of armor, with much of their soft armor not only NIJ certified, but also tested to and compliant with the harder DEA and FBI protocols.
>>46034407You sure I don't put tab B into slot 12? I haven't tried that yet, maybe that will work.
>>46034591>You sure I don't put tab B into slot 12?Only if your is the exceedingly rare Mark 17 Retrograde, an experimental model with only a few hundred units produced.
>>46028228What if I want to mount 50.BMG?
>>46034532Good to know, i made a good choice then
>>46018493Thank you for trying to educate us but this is fucking word salad. Can you please clarify, ideally with punctuation
Recently coped some Hesco III+b. I read the threat matrix and went off of that. Is it a legit metric to use or is it marketing?
Does level III really stop .308? Do they sell any .308 AP rounds to the public, or do I need to start over and get something that can shoot green tips?
>>46038044How about not fucking worrying about it and taking a follow up shot while he's on the ground in shock with 12 broken ribs
>>46038055>on the ground in shock with 12 broken ribsIsn't backface deformation part of the protection standard? What's better in this case: green tips or .308?
>>46031866If they can get through lvl IIIa then we're fucked regardless because before your plates have the coverage of a flak vest your helmet won't be able to handle it.>>46032694I meant 2x plates+2x side plates + the vest with all the connectors and excessive release mechanism that combined weigh 14kg, compared to a flak vest + groin + quick release weighing ~5kg at most, so it's enough to have an RPG-7, not just CG.I prefer /fit/ build and not just either strength or agility but i believe there's a limit when strength build turns into those pic of bloodied feet and torn off skin. Make light infantry at least somewhat light, goddamit, in some way. Robots, carts, less shit but there's a limit crossing which is simply not fair to the soldiers. And exo is still in the distant future while the problem is already here. It might solve all the problems or we might never see it.
>>46038044Green tips are not even AP and suck for doing pretty much anything other than defeating one specific type of rifle plates, still poorly. If you want armor penetration get M2 bullets and reload your own.
>>46038044Yes, all level III plates are required to stop six hits of .308 M80 FMJ.>>46038118For a plate capable of stopping either threat, M855 will have less (nonexistent) blunt trauma.
What happened to the hesco 4600's? I'm still waiting for something in that same price range and weight class. I have yet to find 6.5 pound iv sapi meds that don't cost $1000+ per plate.
>>46040667They failed a follow up test from the NIJ, lost their certification, and Hesco has discontinued them. They're getting replaced with a new IV as we speak, which will likely be either the 4601 or the preexisting 4610 - which was made as early as 2014 but was blocked from civilian sale.
>>46039797not to mention most ranges wont let you use green tip. I stopped buying it.
>>46040909>They failed a follow up test from the NIJ, lost their certification, and Hesco has discontinued them.Wow. Any word on when its replacement is coming out?
>>46019605So when did handmade become poor quality and mass production become good quality.I think you have a glitch in your programing.To make something by hand you know exactly what it does, as you buit it..If all you are ever going to trust is a company rubber stamping product to make more money and chinese quality control something is wrong with you.Maybe it has to do that you never built anything of quality or never owned anything hand made. Whatever the error in you programing is fix it.
>>46041082The problem is consistency and the fact this is one anon making something in his shed and not a professional factory making a highly consistent product by the batch.>>46040941Likely whenever 0101.07 comes out.
>>46041082It happened around the time the machine became more accurate and precise than man. I'm not happy with it but that's how it is.
>>46041980Yep, that's how it is. Handmade armor is asking for handmade inconsistency. With plates, you cannot afford that variance.
>>46017265Got some standalone steel plates with a spall protection coat on it, decided to play it safe and got a spall guardHeavy as fuck desu
>>46041082>So when did handmade become poor quality and mass production become good quality.When computer-controlled machines became the mass standard while manual assembly remained the handmade standard.
>>46043412They'll also get clapped by M193.
>>46017119Every time I go to the range I see penetrators, dagny daggers, and all copper ammo.I load penetrators and all copper.Yeah, I'll wear level 4...
>>46043412Under hypervelocity slug they shatter.
>>46043775Dagny daggers aren't in production and the company is quasi-defunct. Where the hell are they getting daggers from?You only need III+ to stop all of what you listed unless the daggers are rifle caliber.
>>46025731>be armor manufacturer>someone that cannot be stopped thanks to your armor is bad press
>>46014948Is it true SKD stand alone plates are actually rebranded Tencate?
>>46045392Yes. Many people rebrand TenCate and LTC plates.>>46045155It is when the MSM paints you to be the villian.
>>46028420Mehler Vario is rock solid.
Has anyone heard of Armourwear?Someone has "Level IV" for sale locally for $100/plate.I don't see them on the NIJ list, wondering if they're rebadged something else
>>46034671Do it. Be the Chad you imagine you are
>>46047335Rebranded NIJ certified armor will have a listing under the brand it's labeled with. No listing = not certified.
How come most if not all armor vests do not cover the stomach? I really don't want to live the rest of my life pissing and shitting in to a bag if I get shot in the stomach.
>>46040480>Yes, all level III plates are required to stop six hits of .308 M80 FMJ.Don't you mean level 4? Level III doesn't even stop 5.56 from a 16" barrel.
>>46049111>How come most if not all armor vests do not cover the stomach?Sounds to me like you don't know where your stomach is.
>>46049125You are confused. 6 hits of M80 ball is the testing standard for NIJ certified level III armor.Uncertified steel "level III" "armor" can often be penetrated by M193 at over 3,000fps.
>>46049192>google "man wearing armor plate carrier
>>46049269>he didn't google "stomach"See that red organ? That's the heart. The orange one below it is the liver. The yellow one below that is the stomach.It's your intestines that are below the rib cage and behind your belly button. Whenever you hear your stomach rumble, that's actually your intestines rumbling.
>>46049470So why doesn't armor cover the intestines?
>>46049226This. Level IV requires one hit of M2AP, a steel core .30-06, while Level III requires six hits of 7.62x51mm M80. Speed kills steel, hence why the speedy M193 can blitz steel plates despite posing no threat to a competent ceramic or polyethylene.
>>46049579Getting shot in the intestines is a slow, painful death. The kind that doesn't kill you before you can get to a hospital, and can probably be prevented once you get there.
>>46049719Doesn't it fuck you up for life after though? Why not just have the armor extend the extra 2" or so required to cover the damn things.
>>46049728Your intestines go down a lot more than two inches more. All the way down to your asshole, in fact. There's also some important arteries, and your johnson, in the area, so why not extend that armor all the way down and make it a unitard of protection? Oh, shoot, now it's twice the weight while providing less than twice the protection.
>>46049728Some plates are like that and are called "ergonomic cut", measuring in at 15x16". The "Super LIBA" rated to stop 20 hits of M993 in the op pic is an example of one. They're reserved for doorkickers and elite counterterrorist units going up against hardened criminals and who have a very damn high chance of getting shot and need the coverage.You don't. Use speed and concealment to your advantage with a normal, lightweight plate.
>>46049728Because then you wouldn't be able to tie your shoes or sit in your with the armor on.
>>46016878That seems normal. Autists have never had to wait for something before so when it doesn't ship in one day they freak out and start spamming emails and phone calls.
>>46016878Better that than taking your money and waiting months with no word.
Also, any further information on the hesco 4601?
>>46051871It's an in-development model. You can expect it to be lighter than the 4600. In fact, the already-developed 4610 weighs only 5.4lb for a 10x12" and costs only $420. Expect a 4801 or 4810 as well, especially now that RMA even has a sub-5lb Level IV (1199 G2) with no known cheat ring.Also, new thread:>>46052333