If it can't, then why some people say it can perform just as good as the A-10?
Brrrt is shitty overrated fuddlore
>>41456755https://www.defensenews.com/2019/05/08/air-force-to-give-sierra-nevada-corp-a-sole-source-contract-for-light-attack-planes-but-textron-will-be-getting-an-award-too/Textron getting btfo'd again
BRRRt is a retarded meme and you should feel bad about yourself
>>41456778Its not fuddlore but its designed to work against armor and our modern conflicts are primarily against guerilla infantry.
>>41456755Well it can't carry a GAU-8, the gun and it's associated ammo feeder are almost the same size as a Tucano, you could slap a couple of M134's under the wings though in self contained pods or something like that if a gun run is really a deciding factor.
>>41456780Were getting Tucanos? Who are we giving them to?
>>4145688312 are going to Nigeria, but some are going to Navy Special Warfare and Air Force
>>41456864>4 M134s strapped under the wings>Maybe a couple dumbfire rockets>mfw we go back to ww2 ground-attack craft with modern technology
>>41456941>>mfw we go back to ww2 ground-attack craft with modern technology
>>41456941More like 2 M2 machine guns and a couple of GBU-39 bombs, though the weight may be pushing the airframe's limits but idk
>>41456755Isn't the whole point of this plane is to give them to countrys as a cheap alternative to jets to fuck up insurgents and what not
>>41457079And to give SOCOM pilots the same equipment with cheaper operating cost
what year is it
>>41457109>what year is ita year were the Air Force may consider bringing in enlisted to be pilots
>>41457009It could actually carry quite a lot of GBU's, set aside 400lbs for a pair of M134 miniguns, their own weight in ammo, and some thin aluminum shells to reduce their drag and it's still got 3000lbs of payload, or enough to carry 10 GBU-39's, or a ton of small missiles or missile boosted bombs in the 10-30kg weight range.
got 100 hours in the canadian version of this, nice plane to fly
>>41456849It useless against modern tank armor. Plus the A-10 has hellfires for that which actually does the job.
>>41457133The issue isn’t recruiting qualified pilot candidates, it’s retaining them past their initial service requirement. Don’t expect to see any flight slots in the AF that don’t require a degree anytime soon.
Piston engine WW2 fighters literally outperform in terms of flight and armament. Imagine having 70 years of technology progress and still failing to beat f4us and p-47s.
>>41456755Because the A-10 is significantly vulnerable to modern air defense systems, and if you're only fighting dirt-farming guerillas then the A-10's titanium bathtub is just dead weight that could otherwise be used for carrying ordnance.The A-10 is obsolete and inefficient, which is why it's taken a back seat to almost every other CAS platform.
>>41458794Maybe some sort of gun drone would be a good idea, imagine a drone with an autocanon and very extreme 20G+ maneuvering abilities with thrust vectoring. It would have advanced optics for the gun plus secondary panoramic cameras for general searching. The operator would select where they want the gun run and the drone would automatically line it up, the operator could precisely aim the gun via the high resolution gun camera during the run and the drone will automatically pull up and avoid slamming into the ground. You could also have different attack profiles, against tanks top attack could be selected, the drone could climb vertically, aim itself post stall allowing the operator ample time to shoot the top of a tank, then it would automatically pull up as needed. Completely automated attacks against vehicles would be possible as well. With a high thrust to weight ratio and extreme 20G+ maneuvering via thrust vectoring it could just troll many SAMs until they run out of energy.
>>41459297This. Pilots are a waste of space in modern warfare. 5th gen aircraft are already obsolete for all intents and purposes.
>>41457133Finally. I've been driving myself mad wondering why enlisted can't fly planes.
>>41460039I do understand that a pilot and their crew act like a platoon, but I don't understand why operating a vehicle is treated like commanding a platoon.
>>41460039Because the enlisted role is to be the pilot's fluffer.
>>41458452It's not meant for tanks. Consult this reference material for more. The GAU-8 does an excellent job shredding APCs, IFVs, SPHs, SPAAs*, and soft vehicles. Also, most A-10 kills on tanks were done with unguided bombs or AGM-65s.
>>41460111Your digits have some irony in 'em. F-111's wrecked more enemy armor in Gulf War than A-10's.
>>41458657It's not meant to be a fighter, such performance is not needed.
>>41457155What if instead we used that weight for more m134s and ammo? Make it the dakka mosquito
>>41456849The GAU-8 is ineffective against modern tank armor. It's a huge waste of space and weight on the aircraft.
>>41460039Officers = nobles, enlisted = peasants. Which one gets more responsibility and more opportunity to do cool shit?
>>41457155>and it's still got 3000lbs of payload,Dude its total payload is 3,330lbs on 5 hardpoints...
Imagine being trained to fly cool brrrrrrt jets just to be assigned a propeller aircraft after leaving fly school.
>>41456755Would it be beneficial to add a long muffler similar to the observational plane that had one? Or would that be pointless?
>>41456755Profile reminds me of a sand tiger shark
>>41463651depends how fast the prop turns, meaning probably no unless it is specifically designed for audio stealth
>>41465491Since you cannot aim missiles with souds, this would not be a problem.
>>41456755Who cares if it's effective or not?I just want to see propellers make a comeback
>>41465538The advantages of jet engines for all but the top planes is no longer existent.
>>41456755It can be armed with some top tier missles, enought to take most modern planes.
>>41458657F4U or P-47 were extremely capable of using precision guided weaponry and were totally networked with modern datalinks.
>>41465617>capable of using precision guided weaponryA zeppelin is capable of using precision guided weaponry, since precision guided weaponry guides itself;
>>41462517>The GAU-8 is ineffective against modern tank armor. It's a huge waste of space and weight on the aircraft.>>41458452>It useless against modern tank armor. Plus the A-10 has hellfires for that which actually does the job.Reminder that the vast majority of Russian armour is un upgraded T72s and BMP1s and "s which the A10 would shred perfectly well
>>41467910If I remember right the A-10 was also meant to shit on helicopters with the GAU
>>41458452Show me an A-10 with an AGM-114 on it.
>>41460039It's because they have executive authority over a lot of powerful weapons. You want the guy in the plane to be educated and trained to make command decisions, because if he's flying a CAS mission he may need to make decisions which will directly lead to the destruction of friendly or civilian forces. Enlisted simply are not trusted to weigh the lives of an entire platoon versus the potential value of a few bombs.
Friendly reminder that the A-10's main anti-tank weapon is Hellfire>>41470820https://www.acc.af.mil/News/Photos/igphoto/2000653518/
>>41456755it's clearly not an A-10 but it's more efficient and effective for our current needs.
>>41465617Exactly, which is why retiring the P-47 was either a bad call, or a sign that the USAF/Army doesn't actually need an aircraft like the Super Tucano.
>>41456979efficient and effective and affordable. Super sonic attack jets are expensive, and can only attack for like 20 minuets before they have to go refuel.A-29 can stay airborne for hours. You could have 20 of them supporting ground troops for three hours for the cost of 20 minuets of one modern attack jet.
>>41470936>>41465617F4U and P-47 are fucking old.Just look at the landing gear. F4U and P-47 had one small on the rear and two on the front.The Super Tucano has the configuration of any modern airplane.The pilot would need a different type of training just to get used to how the F4U and the P47 take-off and land. Which then he would also need another training to fly modern airplanes.Get over fucking idiot. Super Tucano is a beast.
>>41470910Those are AGM-65s, dumbass. Hellfires are made for helicopters and have been adapted to some drones, the A-10 doesn't carry them.
>>41470936Air force officers get cushy contracts with boeing and lockheed after they retire if they lobby for more expensive high tech jets while they're in the military.Basically the greed machine has caused generals to advocate in the interest of the manufactures, not the actual needs of the military.
>>41470985For reference, this is an AGM-114.
>>41456755Because BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT is a shitty meme, low and slow CAS in an enviroment with greater than 0 AA is a shitty meme and the A-10 is a shitty meme plane
>>41458657imagining thinking an attack plane needs to outperform a fighter.Imagine even comparing the two.
>>41467910barely worked against T-72Ms in Iraq, let alone the average B3 or T90
>>41456755shithole countries like Canada and Yurop should look into things like this so they can stop being parasites on real militaries
>>41460039>why enlisted can't fly planes.because the AF got rid of their Warrant Officers
>>41471124>hurr let's send B-52s to the other side of the world in CAS mission>hurr the AC-130 is a good and cost-effective plane
>>41456755Who has pics of that proposed plan to build a fleet of semi autonomous drone subsonic jets loaded to the gills with mounting points and integrated into the F35s sensor array? >Because that's what will be the 2020's new BRRRRRRRT The future is now old man. They'd be 1/3 the price of a factory bare super tuscano
>>41471201>semi autonomous drone subsonic jetsuntil they lose reception
>>41456780>Textron getting btfo'd again>"a similar solicitation for Textron’s AT-6 Wolverine will be forthcoming,"
>>41458657>Piston engine WW2 fighters literally outperform in terms of flight and armament.No they don't.
>>41470910You mean JDAM, Paveway and Mavericks.
>>41456755>A-29 Super Tucano>Unit Cost: $18 million>A-10 thunderbolt II>Unit Cost: $18 MillionW..we..we need the A-29 to cut costs.
>>41473522An A-10 costs more than that in the current year.
>>41462560So what I'm understanding is you can mount 5 m134s with 50,000 rounds of ammo?
>>41459941>Jams your signal to the aircraftNothing personal kid.
>>41471201>Jams signal Oh noooooo
>>41473522>what are maintenance costs>what are fuel costs>what is inflationYou didn't think that through very well, I see.
>>41456778Tell that to the thousands of marines that swear otherwise
>>41475640Good luck jamming MADL.
>>41456824I don't understand why civilians get Cessnas when they could get striped down super tacos. They're a lot fast and more efficient.
>>41458452>Plus the A-10 has mavericks for that which actually does the jobFIFY
>>41456755No but a varient of the bronco could. and it could do orbital fire
>>41475785Literally just use the Skyraider
>>41475736Because cessnas cost a fraction of the price
>>41475812They're shaped so badly for efficient flight, though. You'd think a double seater front rear style plane would be more desirable, and not much more expensive. Maybe people prefer Cessnas for the spacious cabin.
>>41475812Actually, why don't they just make a prop powered plane that's shaped like a glider? That would be ultra efficient.
>>41475989It's called a motor glider, and they're slow as all fuck.>>41475958It's wanted because it's a rugged airframe, stable as all fuck, and way cheaper than the alternative. Sure, you can buy an SR22 for half a million dollars (probably more) and spin it into a field killing you and your friends because you got distracted for two seconds in the pattern, or you could spend half the money (or way less) on a workhorse that will barely spin if you try to make it do so.
>>41456755The Tucano couldn't even get the GAU-8 off the deck.
>>41473522>A-29 operating cost:$430-500 an hour>A-10 operating cost:$5000-6000
>>41476622Don't let 35 fags hear you mention operating costs as a negative. They shit on the Warthog yet their baby is even worse on that note.
>>41476647Yeah, but the F-35 can also do stuff that's not COIN.
>>41475707are these the same marines that raped schoolgirls in Okinawa and now got everyone in the armed forces forced to watch rape briefings?
>>41456849>30mm full-caliber API with less than 60mm penetration at 1000m>Cold war manuals literally stated that the only place a fucking T-62 was vulnerable to the GAU 8 was from the rear at a specific slope angleeducate yourself nigga, the A-10 was already useless at tankbusting with its gun when it was put into service. A GAU-8 would seriously hatefuck a convoy of BMP-1s in an ideal scenario but the retarded amount AA slavs stick to their mechanized and armored battalions would vaporize any squadron of A-10s before they could make their first pass, let alone provide CAS
>>41456755You've been on here too long man, give it a break. This should be a weekend post senpai.>btw the recoil would send the damn thing backwards, so you would want a large, short recoil operated 30 mm like an M2, not a damn rotating cannon
>>41458512I guarantee you that enlisted would stay in longer than officers.It's an issue over passion + blue collar work ethic vs an officer's natural disposition to pragmatism.While your dime a dozen middle to lower class person is more likely to muscle through tough, not so respectable work, and stick with it, your more qualified middle to higher class person is going to immediately jump ship to something better, something he's more qualified for.>>41470855Let me fix that for you: It's because the current top brass would first have to admit that an enlisted man is just as smart, maybe even smarter than them before allowing enlisted to ever fly again.It's all about pride at this point, nothing more.A fraternity of good ol' boys who live secondhand through the achievements of past pilots.Historically, what and who won wars in the sky?What was Germany's and Japan's fundamental pilot problem in the years leading up the end of WWII?Who were able to perform their duties just fine without a gratuitous certificates during said war(s)? That all being said, I personally believe that the US military has a massive leadership problem in this day and age.Even if they did allow enlisted pilots to fly once more, I don't trust the leadership to train and discipline them well enough for them to become respectable pilots.On the other hand though, my father knew quite a few delinquent, drunkard, and overall reprehensible pilots during his time flying in Korea, many of which were successful enlisted pilots during WWII.
>>41478409>It's because the current top brass would first have to admit that an enlisted man is just as smart, maybe even smarter than them before allowing enlisted to ever fly again.They don't give a fuck about smarts. Why do you think officers go to a different school than enlisted personnel? Pro tip: it's not to make them "smarter" it's to weed out those without leadership and decision making aptitude and to train those skills. In WWII the name of the game was getting as many people into the air as possible who could be reasonably trusted not to crash, and that was it. Modern pilots are the investment of hundreds if not thousands of man hours of training and selection so that only the most capable individuals are entrusted with the complete control of a 120 million dollar machine filled with enough ordinance to kill everyone in a small village. If somebody can't find the willpower to force themselves through four years of college no amount of raw aptitude will make them a reliable military pilot. The common enlisted disdain for the chain of command is also not desirable when it comes to the highly procedural and high workload environment of a combat aircraft's cockpit.
>>41456849Useless against modern armor, and by modern I mean anything newer than a t62... The a10 was a stoppgap solution until the real tank killer (ah64) was deployed, right now is just a cool missile hauler.To strafe soft targets like trucks, goats and insurgents a gun pod is more than enough
>>41479926>If somebody can't find the willpower to force themselves through four years of college no amount of raw aptitude will make them a reliable military pilot.Personally, I think that ones that choose not to go to college are the potential pilots we need.By doing so they've already demonstrated an aptitude for assessing threats and making well thought out decisions under the pressure of a life altering career choice.Sounds like pilot material to me if they can avoid the shark's teeth that is interest rates.Too many times have I seen kids go into student loan debt for a chance at a pilot slot.Some make it, some don't, some wash out.Sad stuff.
>>41482881If you avoid college because you're too dumb to figure out how to pay for it without being in debt forever (get a scholarship, or a major that isn't ass, do ROTC) then you're definitely not pilot material.
When I was a kid we went to the airshow in Kecskemet and accid3ntally called the pilot of an A-10 a nigger after taking a picture with him
>>41482881>being dumb is actually being smart Thisbis how low iqs cope?
>>41479926College fails miserably at selecting character traits; and it takes away 4 years of time that could have been spent on direct selection and training. Piloting is spatial IQ, quick reflexes, and some math. College can't adjust the first two and the military can teach the latter.A number of nations select pilots straight out of highschool. The Jews do it, and their pilots are pretty good.>>41482978>credentials are intelligenceThIsBIs how low IQs cope.
>>41482890Not everyone has those luxuries.I'm just more of an optimist that sees potential where you and many others see worthlessness.I'd much rather see the younger generation of kids be thrust through a series of pilot aptitude tests right after high school in order to weed out the pragmatists and dreamers from those who show a genuine knack for it.At least this way the training can begin almost immediately without having to waste 14 years to see whether or not they're going to add to the retention problem or alleviate it.
>>41482978I'd bet my house that you probably turn right around and whine about how colleges indoctrinate students with Marxist views.
>>41483025I am a pilot, and aptitude has very little to do with it. The military isn't looking for stick and rudder men, because anybody will develop those skills with time. The military wants the best low level officer material they can get their hands on and then teach that to fly a plane, not the other way around.>>41483021>A number of nations select pilots straight out of highschool.If you're gonna try and tell me US high school students are in any way close to Israeli ones on average I'm gonna give your opinion a fat pass. Students in this country are demonstrably retarded for the most part, and the ones that aren't prove it by getting scholarships and cruising through college.
>>41483025Aptitude isn’t a good indicator of retention rates. And college or no college I’m willing to bet it wouldn’t have a major effect on the retention rate. There are some great articles that explain why the retention rate is so low. There is much more money to be made in the civilian world, and the office politics of the military wears a lot of guys down
>>41483097>The military wants the best low level officer material they can get their hands on and then teach that to fly a plane, not the other way around.No shit. The pernicious culture of fusing piloting and desk management work is why the USAF hemorrhages pilots nonstop.
>>41457155What about that new PKWS retrofit for the old 3 inch rocket pods.Gives each rocket a laser seeker.
Does the US have a MiG 21 equivalent?
>>41483102>Aptitude isn’t a good indicator of retention rates.When you find out you're good at something and you can get paid for it, why leave?College burns out even the brightest of students, OTS burns out even more of your jaded soul, and flight training, albeit exciting, still wipes out the youthful spirit. And that's just the beginning.Hell, at least the other way you'd still save four years and keep a lot of that initial excitement.
>>41465628>mfw Zeppelin CAS gunship
>>41483264You leave because you can make 2x as much money doing 1/2 the work and dealing with 1/8th the bullshit. And I can personally attest that college doesn’t burn out that many people. It’s certainly not the demon you make it out to be.
>>41476647F-35 is high end costs for high end performance. A-10 was outdated on release.
>>41483461I can only assume you said this with a straight face.Shame on you
>>41478331Eh, they'd be able to make the first pass. It's the surviving the afterwards and getting home that's the hard part.
>>41456755Sure it can, it'll just be a smaller BRRRRT.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minigun
>>41483169F-5E Tiger II? Maybe? The F-5E blows the MiG-21 out of the water though.
>>41484372its true. the A-10 was expected to last less than a week in the fulda gap.
>>41456979Afghanistan needs planes to fight steppeniggers and boy fuckers. They dont need jets to fight Pakistani boyfuckers because theyd lose that war anyway. So cheap propeller planes are all that are needed.U.S. should have used these 15 years ago but we didnt.
>>41484897No, we used drones that are cheaper and far more effective.
>>41475958>>41475812>>41475736My dad has a Cessena-150 he flies out of his backyard on a ten-acre strip. It cost less than a new motorcycle and the engine isnt any more complicated than a tractor to work on. It runs on regular unleaded from the gas station. If it loses power it can glide for miles to a cornfield (had to run a dad a can of gas once when he had an "unexpected" landing outside of town.
WHY DIDN'T THEY CHOOSE THE AIR TRACTORIT LOOKS COOL
>>41485286What kind of cessna-150 run on regular gas and not 100LL avgas?
>>41485286>glide for milesThe glide ratios of high wing Cessnas are absolute ass.
>>41486250Weaponized agricultural airplane.
>>41460039Because enlisted are typically retards just looking for a free ride and direction in their life
>>41465628No avionics or useless shit like targeting pods needed. >>41470936Plane like Super Tucano is against all principles of USAF, it doesn't provide enough post retirement career options for retired USAF colonels and generals. US Army and SOCOM think differently. There is a good reason why Piper back in 60's went for last mothballed Mustangs for COIN plane instead of Jugs. The Jug was built around turbocharger, not the engine, but just turbocharger. There is massive difference in avionics of Super Tucano and WWII fighters. As far as avionics go, Super Tucano is comparable to modern fighters aside from lack of radar. >>41470985They considered integrating Hellfire to A-10 in late 80's, but skipped because it was supposed to be retired soon as obsolete aircraft. It wasn't worth spending money on. F-16 with GPU-5 gun pod and green paintjob was supposed to replace it. It didn't quite work out as accuracy of gun pod wasn't as good as expected and recoil wrecked the hardpoint it was mounted on and warped the fuselage frames the hardpoint was mounted on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE1S95Cy7wg>>41484897SOCOM wanted those planes, but didn't get 'em because USAF was opposed to the idea of buying something that works off the shelf. >>41484901Except drones have worse situational awareness.
>>41460111>It's not meant for tanks. Consult this reference material for moreOh funny you say that considering your image directly contradicts you. It was meant for tanks, it is no longer usable on tanks. It's good for soft vehicles at this point and that's it.
>>41467910>Reminder that the vast majority of Russian armour is un upgraded T72so, the model past the model the GAU-8 was intended to have marginal effectiveness against? The GAU-8 can't penetrate that T-62 frontal armor.
>>41489289>Except drones have worse situational awareness.brainlet fucking post. Reapers have a far better sensor pod. Nobody deploys PGMs from 5k.
>>41489342Mk1 eyeball has wider field of view than targeting pods and plane isn't operated from half way around the globe.
>>41483224>some fag in the carShot - ruined.
>>41489421Then use more gun.
>>41475808Literally just use the Swordfish
Put some Sidewinders and you're good to go against Russia/China.
>>41489329>what about the side, top, and ass
>>41475707>bunch of highschool kids impressed by loud noises and smoke
>>41475707I think you might be right anon.
>favela hue hue monkey shit
>>41492309They're uparmored on the T-72.
>>41475586AI that can give real human pilots in superior aircraft a serious run for their money can already run on a generic home desktop sized platform thanks to some significant improvements in how AI can be programmed to approach problem solving.
>>41492309Real world isn't war thunder where you can put one round through a weak spot and call it a day.The A-10 is built on the principle of saturating a target area with enough rounds to give a high probability of hit SOMEWHERE on the target.
>>41475707>the crayon memes are coming
>>41456778>>41457057>spotted the butthurt AF officerSeriously you fags have been bitching about getting rid of this thing since '77 just let it go man
>>41486250>>41488604A couple of years ago the state was spraying to keep gypsy moth population down. They had this motherfucker fling a little over the roof tops. He was turning on the dime and was surgical with that sprayer. Fucker was loud as fuck and I had to quickly bring our dogs in before the spraying would hit them Two things that went into my head, >fuck this thing would be good for Air to ground support>I wonder how many rounds I can get into him when he does another low level pass
>>41483040post lease with timestamp.
>>41456755Can't they just mount 4x .50 machine guns?