what are so cool large interesting SSA cities from pre modern times you guys can tell me about?
>>9169256What has Tbilissi got to do with it?
>>9169735Because there are no SSA cities with a soul of its own unless being former colonial adminatration centers that have old werster building. Otherwise it's mainly pure 60's brutalist stuff
>>9169807Wasn't it just a glorified trading post?
>>9170134Population 18,000; similar to medieval London.
>>9169256Kano, Katsina, Djenne, Ife, Benin City, and Gao would be the main ones I think of, but that's because I tend to focus on West Africa.
>>9169256Axum, Lalibela, Gondar and Harar in Ethiopia are all impressive by African standards.
>>9169256I quite like the look of the Djado ruins. Theres something about the tightly packed streets and walls that just appeals to me. Like a compact castle. It must have been quite the oasis city in its heyday, when its architecture style was much more expanded than modern day.
>>9171166When was it abandoned, and why?
>>9171176Right! Lmao the parties must have been fire>>>9171288Hmm, that is a good question. I'm not remembering, but I would assume during the 17th century dry period.
>>9171166>Theres something about the tightly packed streets and walls that just appeals to mesame here. there is something about non linear alley and backstreets that is very comfy. Also makes sense on an urbanistic plan, small streets and constructions thats dont go over 2-3 stories are good for ventilation, as well as keeping the street in shadow while still offering some light. So these places were designed to keep people cool, which is why theyre found in hot places
>>9171471Wow, I hadn't thought of it that way. Especially with the shade and ventilation. Would you happen to have more pics of places with such designs?
>>9172672this is bagdad which has a similar weather
>>9172718didn't Kanem bornu empire build that fort?
Mogadishus pretty cool. has been constantly around since around the 2nd century (the greeks called it sarapion back then though)
>>9169256Nigeria had some big cities back thenIle Ife had a population 150,000 during its peak Benin had between 125k to 250k at its peak
>>9173470I'm not sure, but its possible. Kanem-Bornu style sudano-sahelian architecture often used firebrick as opposed to mudbrick.
>>9173484Are there any details on the inhabitants of Sarapion?
>>9170134Yes, and it was built by Arabs.
>>9169256The Swahili Coast has plenty of old towns.
>>9171166Looks like a m&b warband map
>>9169256OyoIle ifeGaoDjenne Niani Walata Oulata Mogadishu PateGondarKumasi Kano KelebbiAgadezMareegSennarZeilaAxum AswanDongola NjimiNgazargamu
>>9169256Can't you people recognize a bait thread when you see it
>>9175691Bait threads are the only ones that get any traction around here.>/pol/ makes an Africa thread here>Africanists respond and share info with each other for the first 50-100 posts>/pol/ invites his friends from Discord to shit up the thread with spam.>Africanists get tired and leave until summoned again.Sometimes, Africanists make the threads, but it ends the same way.
>>9173470No, it was built by Berbers.>>9173881>but its possibleLolno.It was built by Berbers in the 14th century and then restored by the Ottomans.
>>9176181>No, it was built by Berbers.The Berber Empire? Never heard of that one.
>>9176193It wasn't made by any empire you fucktard, tribal Berbers from Morocco built the citadel in 1310.
>>9176228Historical revisionism. It was actually built by the black bongo-tongo tribe.
>>9175722/his>>9176181>It was built by BerbersAs I said. I'm not sure. Also, Berbers lived in Kanem-Bornu. Just like Berbers lived in other Sahel kingdoms and empires. Theres seems to be confusion in that respect. Wouldn't be an unreasonable assumption. Infact, Berbers and Tebu-Kanuri have some deep affinities. >>9176251>>9176264Thanks anon!
>>9170134Not entirely, but it is still vastly overhyped. The problem is with great hype comes great hate. Great Zimbabwe is legitimately interesting, but black and white supremacists ruined it.
>>9176858>black and white supremacists ruined itWhite afriboos are who ruined any topic on Africa. Nobody cares was actual blacks supremacists think.Instead of treating these people as interesting primitive cultures (with which comes a lot of nobility), they aggrandize their accomplishments to show that they're actually advanced civilizations (they're not).
Benin had about 80,000 people when it was visited by Jean-François Landolphe in the 1780s, and it may have had over 100,000 at its height during the 16th century. In the 19th century, after the collapse of Oyo, a number of Yoruba cities were swelled by refugees to reach around 100,000 people each - specifically Abeokuta, Ibadan and Illorin. Oyo might have been on a similar scale before the fall, as might have Ile Ife in the 14th century. In the north, Kano also reached about 100,000 people by the end of the 19th century.So far as I know, nowhere else in West Africa reached these kinds of numbers. All of these cities were primarily agricultural, inhabited by peasants who farmed within walking distance of the city walls, but lived in the city for security.
>>9177245>So far as I know, nowhere else in West Africa reached these kinds of numbersYeah, Nigerian civilizations in the southwest and north have historically been very densely populated and urbanized places. The only other places in Subsahara that could be entertained as having similar densities at certain points in history are maybe the cities of the Upper Niger and Niger Bend. Maaaybe Kanem and Bornu's capitals around lake Chad.
>>9169256Meroë, some pretty nifty little pyramids things there.
>>9177362If I'm remembering correctly, I think the population of Meroe in its prime was estimated to be around 25,000.
>>9173512>Ile Ife had a population 150,000 during its peak>Benin had between 125k to 250k at its peakWhy is it that people never give sources when making those claims
>>9173512Those numbers are not plausible and are not supported by modern research.
>>9175466>OyoNot a city. That's actually a state composed of cities such as Ile Ife.>Walata>OulataIt's "Oualata". Walata and Oualata are the same things, those are just different spellings. You wrote the same thing two times...>AswanOP said he wanted SSA cities. Aswan is most definitely not in Sub-Saharan Africa.
>>9177698>>9177699Benin was probably closer to 100,000 (see >>9177245). It's not really possible to estimate Ile Ife's population, but over 100,000 isn't too unrealistic, given that a number of 19th century cities were on a similar scale.Here are the contemporary estimates of Abeokuta's population in the mid-19th century, given by various missionaries and visitors;>Barber, Oshielle, p. 19, 80,000, c. 1845; Freeman, Journal, p. 227, twice the size of Kumasi in 1842; Bowen, Central Africa, p. 106, 60,000–100,000 in 1850. According to Townsend, Memoir, pp. 106, 154, 160, Beecroft estimated the population at 300,000 in 1850, Hockin estimated it at 70,000 in 1866, Irving estimated it at 100,000 in 1862, and Forbes estimated it at 50,000 in 1848. Campbell, Pilgrimage, p. 33, estimated it at more than 100,000 in 1860; and Burton, Abeokuta, p. 170, put it at 150,000 in 1861 when the soldiers returned. Mabogunje, ‘Some comments’, p. 260, gives three examples of missionaries who put their estimates above 100,000.>Source: https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1468-0289.2011.00613.x>>9177741Oyo was the city that ruled the Oyo kingdom. It was destroyed in the 1830s and replaced by New Oyo to the south.
>>9177794Here's one account from 1850.>Abbeokuta is the capital of the very small independent kingdom of Egba, which is numbered according to its position among the countries of Guinea, but in character is more nearly allied to Sudan. The whole population of this little state may be set down at 100,000, most of whom are in the capital city.>The population of Abbeokuta is estimated by some Europeans at sixty thousand, and by others at one hundred thousand souls. I approached the place with a confident expectation of reducing the estimate to twenty-five or thirty thousand, for I could not believe that the towns here were so great, when they were generally small in other parts of Africa. Though it was nearly dark when I arrived, I could still see enough to mitigate my unbelief. It appeared to be truly an extensive town, and my wonder was not diminished by traveling half a mile to the Wesleyan station, which they said was almost in the suburbs.>The length of the town by the most direct route was afterwards measured by a perambulator, and found to be within a few rods of four miles. The width is from two to three miles. The walls, which include much open space, are probably fifteen miles in circuit, and the town itself is not less than ten miles in circuit. Observing that the houses are very large, and learning that the population of a house varies from twenty to one hundred souls, I felt entirely unable to guess how many thousands an accurate census would give to Abbeokuta. Here the matter is obliged to rest, but we all think it reasonable to estimate the population at sixty to one hundred thousand souls.>Source: https://archive.org/details/centralafricaadv00bowe_0
>>9177741>Not a cityOld Oyo was, before it was replaced and abandoned by Ibadan>>9177794>>9177823Thanks
>>9169818>that hideous speakerphoneold christain churches don't do this, old hindu temples don't do this, why do musilms think it's ok?
>>9177862Call to prayer
>>9177862Kys Muslims can do whatever they want. If Muslims want a speakerphone for adhan Muslims will have speakerphone for adhan. You are no one to judge or dictate Muslims or their mosques.
>>9177699>Those numbers are not plausible and are not supported by modern research.Which modern research exactly?
>>9177957calm down ahmed
>>9177957KYS pastafarians can do whatever they want. If pastafarians want a wall covered in shit for their church pastafarians will have a wall covered in shit for their church. You are no one to judge or dictate pastafarians or their churches.
>>9171166Looks like a hornets nest when cut open. I wonder if there are any juicy maggots living there too.
>>9179705Lmao well it is an oasis ruin. I'm sure there life in there still compared to the surrounding desert.
>>9179705Dude what the FUCK is up with that? So many of these old city ruins look like some kind of hive. I can't find the pic I was looking for, it was way more dilapidated than pic related, not sure where it was from but def not Europe. It looked like something a shit ton of insects were gonna crawl out of any minute.
>>9179777Maybe it's just that certain structures and architectures are 'common sense.' Like how spiders know the perfect geometric shapes to design their web or ants designing their hive with underground ventilation and waste management. Neither of those animals are consciously selecting those shapes. There's a biological theory that tries to explain this, I don't remember what it was called. Also, while not directly related to this, the Greeks made an argument for the 'soul' or rather a priori. Basically means that some knowledge, like 2+2,just exists independently of experience.
>>9177957yeah this faggot got FILTERED lolgo marry your cousin bitch