What are the arguments for medievalism? Why do people think the middle ages were le good?
>dude every body was an unhygenic savage peasant who suffered->References to the emerging social stratum of wealthy land-owning commoners began to appear after 1429. In that year, the Parliament of England re-organized the House of Commons into counties and boroughs, with voting rights granted to all freeholders. The Act of 1430 restricted voting rights to those freeholders whose land value exceeded 40 shillings. These yeomen would eventually become a social stratum of commoners below the landed gentry, but above the husbandmen. This stratum later embodied the political and economic ideas of the English and Scottish enlightenments, and transplanted those ideas to British North America during the early modern era.
>>15097702The high medieval ages were definitely superior to the industrial age. In Maximilian's Empire you had really clean cities, there was good metal piping, no animals allowed and it was illegal to even leave refuse on the street overnight. Medicine was also more advanced in certain aspects as during the Renaissance some practices were lost such as poultices which in modern studies were proven to be more effective anti-antibiotics. You still had universities, automated hard labour with milles and hospitals, but the life was simpler.More important than life quality there was mystery, adventure and knightly chivalry (yes, it was real). It was an exciting new world.Today you have to be extremely competative to get to work on mysteries in research or get to design some interesting space telescope etc. In the Medieval period you could just join the Landsknecht or an expedition for a life of adventure.I think Early Medieval period was also nice, but way more boring.
>>15097755awesome
>>15097755What are some literature/documentaries that highlight the positive aspects of this life?
Good or bad middle ages is no less dumb than good or bad bronze age
>>15097806Tbh I think the Bronze age is very overrated, especially on this board.It is interesting because the only true discontinuity in Eurasian civilization is between the Bronze and Iron ages, but people really overrate the Bronze age achievements and living standards.
>>15097702they don't actually _think_ so. some are just trolls, but most are in a 'true christianity was never tried' mode.
>>15097755>automated hard labour with millesThis is a really overlooked part of medieval history. In antiquity you just solved many problems by throwing slaves at them, while in medieval europe great strides were made in labor-saving technology
>be a peasant>have a lord who is quite nice>basically spend most of your life tending your farm>aside from planting/harvesting seasons, you can live a quite relaxed lifesounds good
>>15097858Absolutely, they had tens of thousands of massive mills meticulously recorded. And not just used for grain milling, but the elemination of the most labour intenstive parts of steel, textile etc. production, not to mention water management and irrigation on a truly continental scale. It's a shame that this engineering marvel has largely been forgotten in the modern conciousness.The medieval ages was the period where humans worked the least. Of course it wasn't perfect, but it's the most romanticised period for a good reason.
>>15097702Look at the absolute SOVL in that pic.
>>15097868People also just staunchly believe bad Lords had unlimited power over you which is not historical fact at all. Plenty of cases where peasants sued their Lords and won. Also a bad Lord was easily displaced by a good King or a peasant revolt. Unlike modern politicians that we aren't hanging nearly enough.Throughout most of Medieval history Lords also had obligations to peasants:>Can't remove them from the land>Have to feed and clothe them>Have to ensure they have all the tools needed for their trade Life was comfy for most people. Not perfect by any means, but not bad at all.
>>15097702The JEW was not cuckolding my race with niggers.
>>15098197Imagine seeing only White people all day. Holy shit, paradise.
>>15097702Medieval Europe was unburdened by the modern need to rationalize and deconstruct all of existence. The modern West is old and spiritually exhausted, while Medieval Europe was the West in its youth. People want the vitality and innocence of the "middle ages", but fail to understand that we can never RETVRN
>>15097702They were God-fearing, now we have trannies
Cuz it was peak sovl
>>15097702Dunno, perso I just like the setting because there are no highways and commieblocks
>>15098440Why are sallets so underrepresented in media? Do they just not have a "hero" quality to them like armets?
>>15099545because normies are faggots with no sense of aesthetics
>>15098150>The medieval ages was the period where humans worked the leastIn terms of time wasting labour, they had more. If you were a farmer, that is a large proportion of the population, you almost certainly worked more hours then today.>>15098192>Also a bad Lord was easily displaced by a good King or a peasant revoltThis does not happen and never did. >Have to feed and clothe them>Have to ensure they have all the tools needed for their tradeNo they didn't.
bumping out of interest
I feel for the average european man, the late middle ages to early rennaisance, perhaps not everywhere in Europe but especially in England, provides a world most compatible with his soul, for whatever you think that's worth>relatively decent wealth and purchasing power following the black plague which increased the value of the individual>enough real and meaningful labor to keep you occupied, but machines are very useful in lessening the load, giving you plenty of off-time as well>nation-state has largely not been realized, power is lessened and more decentralized under the feudal system, government is not so intrusive in your life>relationship between the sexes is probably the healthiest it ever was, society is largely patriarchal unlike in modern or neolithic times, but women are not treated like animals>nobles and mercenaries are doing the bulk of the fighting rather than conscripts, and army sizes and war lethality are less than in both antiquity and modernity, and the gun has not yet dominated the battlefield>increasing quality and importance in art and writing >the wars of reformation have not yet begun and the age of vikings has passed, so there is a pretty negligable chance of your homes going up in flames>magic in the world has not been lost, you aren't going to be a perpetually disenchanted nihilistic individual>no shortage of adventures to go on, whether it be fighting in the next country over, exploring the rest of the continent, or leaving to the other side of the planet to visit a whole new alien worldI'm well aware that there is a significant chance that you'll die before you turn 3, as has been the case for 99.9% of human history, but once you get past that, I think it's pretty alright.
Don't you just mean romanticism but squarely focused on 500 AD-1500 AD ?
>>15097702I think it primarily has to do with nostalgia for a preindustrial age where life was much harder but people were incomparably less demented and there were actual communities rather than everyone being atomized.There's also the fact that the middle ages primarily got its reputation from the liberal middle classes of the enlightenment and the 19th century whose reputation and prestige keeps dropping day by day. They detested the middle ages because it was an age of aristocracy and the church, but I guess by making professional historiography practically a court of law in front of which historical people and events are brought, they created the circumstances which they themselves will unavoidably fall victim to as their star keeps falling.
>>15097707> emerging social stratum of wealthy land-owning commonersHow many? I'd bet there were few
>>15100467>decent wealth and purchasing powerIncrease in purchasing power to any significant degree would not occur until the Industrial revolution. They were still running off of a pitiful economic power.>power is lessened and more decentralized under the feudal system, government is not so intrusive in your lifeAbsolutely not. Feudalism in the Later middle ages outside of Germany was massively dismantled, it hardly even existed outside of paper by the later 15th century in France and England. The authorities were extremely present in normal life. State monopiles, barring of business operation, prevention of free movement, restrictions on trade and the like. If you wanted to do more than live the life of a hermit, you had to deal with the government, and it was far more restrictive than it is today.>nobles and mercenaries are doing the bulk of the fighting rather than conscriptsCompletely depends on where you live and what period, but largely not true everywhere in the 14th century and never true in urbanised areas such as Italy and the Low counties. Conscription was one of the main ways armies were formed in England through the array system. France had a different system, but still extensively conscripted soldiers. >no shortage of adventures to go on, whether it be fighting in the next country over, exploring the rest of the continent, or leaving to the other side of the planet to visit a whole new alien worldIf you could afford to do any of these, you probably had more than enough obligations at home to have the time to do any of that.
>>15097868You have to > build your house> tend to your beasts and birds> fish, hunt, and forage> firewood> do some craft or trade to sell for coin or seed to buy things But it was easy beyond all this
>>15098192Lords back then were landlords in the literal sense and peasants were their tenants. Without rent from peasants, these lords were broke and could not aid the King and other lords in their quests
>>15099545Helmets that cover the face look intimidating, perhaps because you are left wondering whats behind the mask. Can look badass if you know its a good guy behind it a la "Goblin Slayer anime"
>>15100520In the case of that movie though it's about the dehumanization of teutonic knights.
>>15100485Romanticism is specifically pro-medieval, is it not? Late modern bourgeois have always had a boner for antiquity and a hatred for what followed, romanticism was supposed to be a counter culture to what was typical for the elite of the time.
>>15099603>In terms of time wasting labour, they had more. If you were a farmer, that is a large proportion of the population, you almost certainly worked more hours then today.They had holidays for half the year.Even if they were working 16 hours on working days (they weren't), they had less working hours than us.>>15099603>This does not happen and never did.Peasants have literally diposed Kings over an alcohol tax.>No they didn't.Yes, they did.
>>15100512>Without rentThey didn't pay "rent". They had to pay a portion of their crop/profits only.
>>15101114>They had holidays for half the year.This is both, not true and in Germany and the Roman Empire, farmers were exempt from holidays. >Peasants have literally diposed Kings over an alcohol tax.When? Peasant revolts were overwhelmingly crushed by armed force.>Yes, they did.Restating what you previously said doesn't make it true.>>15101118That only applies to serfs. In England at least, all landholders in a certain area had to pay rent to their possessor of their lands, being an Earl or the King depending on where they lived. Ignoring taxes.
>>15101130https://youtu.be/iTm_zb9k2usJust watch this, it's for England specifically where there the peasantry was treated much worse than on the continent.
>>15101171That doesn't really counter anything I said. The 'Have to ensure they have all the tools needed for their trade' still isn't true. He was only not allowed to disposes him of his tools. Not that they had to make sure they had said tools.
>>15097702>Why do people think the middle ages were le good?Because it was kino.
>>15101205Ok fine, you are right on that technicality. I am sorry.
Everything listed is just a shittier version of todays society without all the perks of todays society. No mention of the worse hygiene, one guy makes the insane claim that anti-biotic medical treatments were better in 1400, no mention of total freedom from serfdom and farm work and a hysterical total ignorance of how rich we are compared to a medieval serf, way better condoms, not a single mention of how much better even healthy food is today compared to back then and being free from the tyranny of the church. Watch them act like a life with more pleasures isn’t better along with the baseless claim that we have less access to spirituality or methods of increasing mental wellness.
>>15101504>one guy makes the insane claim that anti-biotic medical treatments were better in 1400,They were better back in 1000:https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/news/pressreleases/2015/march/ancientbiotics---a-medieval-remedy-for-modern-day-superbugs.aspx>muh money and sexNot gonna argue much against that except to say you wen't for literally went for the most uninteresting thing in modern life and I'm sorry your soul is so dry. I never said I would prefer living in the past though. I just see the appeal compared to the industrial revolution. I absolutely prefer my life doing frontier research and learning about new innovations daily.Btw they also had BC in the medieval times. You really could fuck your hot blonde trad wife on the hay bales for a few years before you started having babies.
>>15101657A topical treatment able to kill MRSA does not mean medieval people had anti-biotics. You are the 4chan flavor of internet pseud that is found on Reddit. You take some factoid and extrapolate it far beyond what it actually means to suit your emotional needs.
>>15101992Had better anti-biotics than now*
>>15097702
>>15102018Skill issue, you’re poor
>>15097702Pre modern people:Work six hours a day maxLots of holidays, real holidays where the entire community would get together in song, dance, and feasting, not this "take one day off work and get drunk by yourself" bullshitColorful clothing, elegant cedar hatsBountiful food including salmon, natural berries, mushrooms, and elkDrugs nonexistent, except for some patches of psychedelic mushrooms which pop out of the earth for one season a yearFresh water pours from every creek and valley into a pristine seaSpend the winter around a fire telling the stories of your ancestorsLive within a community that will always have your backDie knowing your name will live on in the stories and songs of your community until the end of timeEveryone knows everyone, your problems are my problems, my problems are your problemsPost modern people:Work eight hours a day, plus a minimum of one hour unpaid commute time, plus the time to actually convert that money into food and resourcesMaybe two weeks of holiday time per year, which you celebrate aloneSocial events such as clubs and bars are strictly stratified by class, antisocial in nature, and generally revolve around the commodification of sexClothing is dark colored and utilitarian, patterns/flourishes are shunned, hats are ugly cotton sacks and rarely wornFood is limited to corn products and factory meat, anything that's not genetically modified and doesn't come from a can generally costs an arm and a legA new potentially deadly drug gets invented every week and can be bought by anyone with an Internet connection. Tobacco and liquor everywhere, addiction is commonPollutants which leak from every ditch and pipe into a brown murky seaLie in bed till three in the morning while the cars zip by outside your cramped apartmentWhen you die every scrape of your existence will be scrubbed from your home so it can be sold to highest bidderWere cities a mistake?
>>15097702yikes
>>15101992>>15102007Sorry, but unfortunately you made a grammatical error and therefore your emotional personal attack is invalid.
it's one thing to want to move to a farm plot and live independently, why would you pretend to have some rose tinted ancestral memory about how great it was being some lord's bitch though
>>15102018>>15102024>>15102033I would've argued this if I still had remote work, but now I can simply kneel in defeat.
>>15097702Unironically because they can't have sex.
>>15097702what happened to your previous thread? it should happen to this one as well.also, "medievalism" does not mean what you try to make it mean.
>>15102033Yall literally picked most romanticized version of medieval times while ignoring how fuck it up was in Russia. It can vary from lord to lord or kingdom to kingdom too just like it does with employers and companies now. You might get lucky and get that or you get the peasant ScallyWags. Peasant girls were notorious for being unfiltered and unrefine. You likely can’t tell who kids are who before dna test. Also what stops lord or knight from fucking her first???? Anyone who thinks feudalism would be awesome is a fucking retard because most likely never seen how corrupt rural society can be and families businesses in such places.Look at Arabs or Muslims. They still have kings, religious police, clans/tribes, etc. even when oil rich.Also serfs lack right to eat meat, hunt, have weapons(especially good or nice ones knights had), and like renters did not even own land but glorified apartment tenets living in a mud hut or cobble stone shack
>>15102885>his country had serfdomlmaot. frisian
>>15102885ESLtard go home yuo're drunk.
>>15104710Classical world was better. Rather be a legionary, in Polis, or even raider who lives off land is preferable to being a serf
>licking boots beneath a suit :(>licking boots under a crown :0
>>15097702Because the comforts, security and boredom afforded to many by modernity has in turn made them weak, ungrateful, arrogant, short-sighted and narcissistic retards. It’s obvious that most, if not all, who advocate a return to “Medieval” lifestyles and governments have an extremely shallow, superficial and pop-history tier understanding of what the Medieval age was actually like, be it in Europe, Asia, the Americas or elsewhere. They also always seem to believe that they will be on the top ends of Medieval social hierarchies, and if not, that they won’t have to realistically deal with any of the multitudes of problems peons, peasants and city dwellers had to routinely face off (Rampant disease, poor sanitation, banditry, Chevaucée’s of all sorts, monarchical tyranny, famine, etc.). If your arguing that the years 600-1500 AD are in any possible way politically, socially, economically, medically, militarily or technologically superior to the 21st century, you need to evaluated for Downs Syndrome and sent to a special needs school immediately.The ONLY exception to this that I can think of and potentially understand is a religious one; regardless of your faith tradition, the Middle Ages were a time of near universal faith and religious devotion. For all the faults that accompanied this, I can sympathize with a desire to see such a thing return to modern society: a lack of faith in anything but one’s self, as well as one’s ultimately pointless material lives, has destroyed countless people, ruined many nations and continues to lead the “euphoric” among us into lives of insufferable vanity, violence, decadence and despair. A counterbalance to this through a religious resurgence of sorts is ultimately an understandable, if somewhat imperfect, desire.
>>15104976Exactly, I rather take my luck in legion or polis or Viking raider because yea I most likely die early in process but if I don’t I stand a lot gain and decent living.
>>15097755You can still become a mercenary in this day and age it is just you will be vilified by the media instead of being the subject of a romance novel.
>>15100499Many people went on pilgrimages. Not just to some sandy dustbowl either but there there pilgrimage routes all over the continent that went to religious centers located in the most stunning of settings.
>>15104803>serfhater is a romabooLmao, you would've been a slave in the salt mines or a latifundia
>>15105527>being the subject of a romance novel.Medieval mercenaries were despised and for the most part fell out of the customs of war. Even those hired directly into service were hated for being mercenaries. The Outremer chroniclers had an extremely negative outlook on all men who hired others to protect or serve them in an official capacity. Let alone those not in official service, or denied any recognition or affiliation who were considered no different from bandits.
