The most important aspect of Odin is transgression and the power of will to manipulate reality. He's an usurper by nature.

>>14776056
fitting he live shis life fearing and preparing for the reckonig. When entities stronger than him will come to avenge his transgression.
Not a very explored archetype in fiction or myth. The knowing usurper consumed by dread and fear of their eventual slaying by the worthy.
I can kind of emphatize.

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>>14776063
Eh, that's not quite the takeaway you should get from it. Odin is Lord precisely because he took it by his own hands. It's a lesson in self-overcoming into the ubermensch.

>Dionysian
>Appollonian
It only takes these two words to know you are reading a pseud post.

>He's not associated with the sun
Yes he is.

>whereas most other skygods definitely are more apollonian.
Let's ignore that "Apollonian vs Dionysian" means nothing for a moment here: Odin is plenty Apollonian.

>What caused this development?
Pop culture focusing solely on him as a wandering wizard getting into hijinks instead of him being the Allfather ruling the cosmos from a golden throne in a celestial fortress at the highest point in the universe.

>the sun
Most kangs in IE religions aren't though. They are associated with the sky. The sun is generally tied to another entity (apollo, sol, surya) than the sky father (Zeus, indra)

Odin was a popular war god who replaced the skyfather Tyr

Like Yahweh absorbed and merged with El

>>14776599
Odin has always been the Skyfather; there's no Skyfather imagery associated with Tyr.
>his name-
His name descends from the same root as *Dyewos, *dyew-, but it doesn't descend from *dyewos. "Tyr" means "the Shining", not "Sky (Father)".

>>14776614
Based retard
>The divine name *Dyēus derives from the stem *dyeu-, denoting the "diurnal sky" or the "brightness of the day" (in contrast to the darkness of the night), ultimately from the root *di or dei- ("to shine, be bright").

>>14776638
Thank you for copying Wiktionary to prove yourself wrong so that I didn't have to.

>>14776646
>Dyeus derives from bright
>try derives from bright
>uh... tyr is not dyeus
BASED KING

>>14776579
>Pop culture focusing solely on him as a wandering wizard getting into hijinks instead of him being the Allfather ruling the cosmos from a golden throne in a celestial fortress at the highest point in the universe.
Damn that pop culture, viewing characters solely based on the all the stories left behind about them instead of based on the schizophrenic headcanon that exists only in my head

>>14776716
Not him, but we definitely have stories of Odin ruling from his hall of Hliðskjálf. We only have two major sources of Norse mythology, the poetic edda and the prose edda, and both of them contain stories of that sort. It's just that things like the Gylfaginning, Völuspá, and Grímnismál are a lot less popular to modern audiences than stuff like the Lokasenna, Þrymskviða, or Hárbarðsljóð

>>14776692
Correct. As already stated, and as you confirmed, *Deywos and *Dyew(s)- both derive from the same root, *di-. They are not the same word, they both derive from the same root. *Deywos (bright, shining) entered Proto-Germanic as *tiwaz, Old English as "tiw", and Old Norse as "tyr". This is why it is used in noun-incorporation in the names of various Gods (Odin is "Odintyr", Thor is "Thortyr", etc), because it just means "Bright" or "Shining".

*Dyew(s)- doesn't have a Proto-Germanic descendent, but if it did it would enter Proto-Germanic as *dau or *dewwa, leading to either something like "taw" or "tiw" (the former would rhyme with "jaw", the latter would by pronounced identically to "tiw").

What likely happened is that the Indo-Europeans that would go on to become the Proto-Germanics stopped referring to him as Dyeus Pther and just started calling him Odin or the Allfather, leading to *dyew(s)- (or more accurately some halfway transitionary term).

>>14776716
you do realize that we have two big books on this stuff and a gazillion smaller texts right?

>>14776787
>Not him, but we definitely have stories of Odin ruling from his hall of Hliðskjálf.
Odin uses Hlithskjalf specifically for the purpose of finding opportunities to go on "wandering wizard hijinks," like in griminismal. Adventuring in disguise is such a core element of his character in the mythological poetry, and also the heroic poetry and sagas, whereas being "king of the gods" is practically non-existent.
>We only have two major sources of Norse mythology, the poetic edda and the prose edda
Make that just the poetic edda, Snorri's work is fanfiction except for when he's quoting to the same poems that are already in the poetic edda.
>Völuspá, and Grímnismál are a lot less popular to modern audiences
These are literally wandering wizard hijinks stories, what are you talking about

>>14776790
Odin etymology is derivative from rage/madness/frenzy. It has nothing to do with the skyfather.
Try/dye mean bright. Tyr was the sky father.
Your bizarre copes are meaningless

I like Odin much more than the skyfather DESU. Reminds me of Faust. And the questing knight archetype, but more tragical and magical
More interesting figure.
He is probably the psychopomp/mercury though.

>>14776834
>rage/madness/frenzy
So the Skyfather, who is associated with "rage/madness/frenzy" in Greece, in Italy, in Anatolia, and in India.

>Try/dye mean bright
No idea what you're trying to say here.

>Tyr was the sky father.
No he wasn't. He doesn't wield a spear, he isn't a king, he isn't the father of all creation, he isn't married to the Earth-Mother, he doesn't have a son who is the Striker, he has no head imagery associated with him, he doesn't rule the world, he has nothing to do with hanging, and isn't associated with the cosmic cow.

Meanwhile, compare Odin, who does wield a spear, is a king, is the father of all creation, is married to the Earth-Mother, has a son who is the Striker, has tons of head imagery associated with him, rules the world, is associated with hanging, and is associated with the cosmic cow.

So, by etymology, you're wrong (and easily demonstrable to, Calvert Watkins was writing about this back in the 80s), and by mythology, you're also wrong.

>>14776833
>okay so you're right but...
Goal posts etc.

>being "king of the gods" is practically non-existent.
He literally cited the poems where this is the case.

>Snorri's work is fanfiction
No it's not. Even in the euhemeristic stuff, he's just euhemerizing existing narratives that have cognates in other Indo-European religions. For example, the part where totally-just-a-human-Odin teaches men how to call down meteors to blow up subterranean dragons is in the Rig Veda, and Saxo's totally-not-a-God-Balder narrative is 1:1 with stories also in the Rig Veda and the Hellenic corpus.

>These are literally wandering wizard hijinks stories
That you haven't read because Odin is described as a king in them.

>>14776869
Grimnismal is also where he does a pretty 1:1 alignment with Agni (who is also Shiva, who is the Skyfather), but that also shows up in other stories (you already mentioned Snorri's telling of this), complete with him being a ritual fire.

>>14776833
>Odin uses Hlithskjalf specifically for the purpose of finding opportunities to go on "wandering wizard hijinks," like in griminisma
No, it's actually where he lives. You're simply arguing from your conclusion that Odin's primary mythic role is some wandering wizard adventurer.

> is such a core element of his character in the mythological poetry, and also the heroic poetry and sagas, whereas being "king of the gods" is practically non-existent.
No it isn't.

>Make that just the poetic edda, Snorri's work is fanfiction except for when he's quoting to the same poems that are already in the poetic edda.
More baseless conclusions.

>These are literally wandering wizard hijinks stories, what are you talking about
You have clearly never read them. The Völuspá never actually leaves the initial field it is set in. Odin bids a wise woman to speak and she tells what is essentially a creation/categorization myth, including Odin's role as king of the gods. There is no adventuring, unless you want to count the recitation of how Odin and his brothers killed Ymir.

The Grímnismál likewise never actually leaves
Hlidskjalf, with Odin seeing what's going on in Midgard and recalling a past adventure, reinforcing how he is the judge and ruler of the cosmos and his almost infinite knowledge.

>>14776869
>No it's not. Even in the euhemeristic stuff, he's just euhemerizing existing narratives that have cognates in other Indo-European religions.
Its definitely the case that snorri picked up some hints of real myths in his works, evident by the fact that he has access to unique versions of poems in the poetic edda meaning he had some independent source for them, but the real myths are so heavily blended with shit like "the norse gods are ackshually trojan refugees, I know this because "Aesir" sounds like "Asia"" that its just safest to assume that all of his works are fanfiction unless you can convincingly prove otherwise.
>>These are literally wandering wizard hijinks stories
>That you haven't read because Odin is described as a king in them.
Of course he's called that, I'm not denying that he is literally the king of the gods, I'm saying the heavy focus on this trait is revisionist, because all of his stories involve disguised adventuring, whereas the king trait is incidental. When people think of griminismal, they think of odin in disguise being tortured and then eventually getting revenge on geirroth, nobody thinks about the brief prose introduction where king odin is sitting up in heaven arguing with his wife, because its boilerplate.

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>>14776599
>popular religion? let me tell you the real history behind it

>>14776911
>but the real myths are so heavily blended with shit like "the norse gods are ackshually trojan refugees, I know this because "Aesir" sounds like "Asia""
You haven't read these stories, if you had you'd see that these portions are fucking miniscule, and even then Snorri can't even keep his story about what the Gods are ACKTHYUYUALLY supposed to have been.

>I'm saying the heavy focus on this trait is revisionist
It's not, and it's been demonstrated to you why. If anyone's a revisionist, it's you, whose just ignoring the actual material at hand so you can regurgitate DnD memes about wizards.

>>14776925
Yes

>>14776905
>>These are literally wandering wizard hijinks stories, what are you talking about
>You have clearly never read them
how in the fuck can you say the story of odin travelling to the grave of a jotunn women, and using necromancy to resurrect her so she can read his fate is anything other than "wandering wizard hijinks"?
>The Grímnismál likewise never actually leaves Hlidskjalf
thats not my reading of the prose introduction, but even if it was the case, its completely pedantic to say "oh no, this isn't a story of wandering wizard hijinks, its about odin recounting one of his stories of wandering wizard hijinks so its completely different." The core of the story is still the hijinks, not the prose.

>>14776949
No one is arguing that he, like all depictions of the Sky Father, is arguing that there aren't wandering wizard hijinks, we're just pointing out that your initial claim of there ONLY being wandering wizard hijinks is wrong.

>>14776952
>we're just pointing out that your initial claim of there ONLY being wandering wizard hijinks is wrong.
All of his personal stories in the poetic edda center around wandering wizard hijinks. Harbarthsljoth, Voluspa, Griminsmal, Vafthruthnismal, with his regal status usually being incidental. The only time him being a king seems to be relevant is in the story of Brynhildar. In the tiny fragment we have of helreith brynhildars, she explains that odin decides the outcomes of battles, but even this sounds like its connected to the magical spells that odin talks about in havamal (the one where he whispers magical words to shields that cause their users to win in battle).

>>14776991
>All of his personal stories in the poetic edda center around wandering wizard hijinks.
Duh? "The glorious king who rules on his golden throne" isn't a good setup for fun stories to tell. That doesn't mean that, as you originally claimed, it's not there, it's just that it's less conducive to fun setups. The same thing happens in Greece and India, where the pop-cultural interpretation of Zeus is as a lecherous pervert and Shiva is a bumbling drug addicts. Both of these are absolutely not true in the proper theologies of their respective religions. Zeus IS a king. Shiva IS a king. Odin IS a king.

It's there. It's just not as fun to talk about divine tax policies or whatever.

I’m confused

Why is this schizo so upset that Odin is a wandering trickster god?

>>14777063
Even the greek mythology at least gave us a few zeus myths set in the palace, or using some device like court intrigue.

>>14777154
We have such stories in reference to Odin, and references to his role in such stories. Hell, we have Norsemen telling us how they conceptualize Odin: as a warrior-king sitting in a big citadel in the heavens ruling everything from a giant palace bedecked with gold while his hot wife and her babe-servants pass out magic booze.

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>>14777063
>"The glorious king who rules on his golden throne" isn't a good setup for fun stories to tell.

>>14776030
Because he was the Hyksos scholar and representative of Thoth, whom in turn was the southern-pie equivalent of the skyfather, being a parallell tribe of osiris (the aesir) alongside Israel.
and his son Thor was a thracian Vanir prince whom had to flee alongside his father when their main allies, whom were the egyptians and northern kingdoms of Israel, lost the battle of Actium.
Mary Magdalene is the same person, or the mother of, the Manx princess Gerða who married Yngvie-Freyr - Njords son - a Vanir that likely had major influence from the tales of he IRL thracian son of Thoth.
Njordr was said to have been taken hostage (because he lost at Actium) and given to the scandi princess Skadi as husband. (sort of an isolation solution like Napoleon received)
Thoth and Njordr (Odin and Thor) were both greeted and integrated as manifestations of the PIE gods and were developed into what we now know as the Norse gods, slightly separate but always the same in spirit as the PIE originator gods.
Tldr;
The child of Mary Magdalene married the grandchild of Thoth in the Hebrides, and gave birth to the people that makes jews seethe.

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>>14776030
Why do so many trannies claim that Odin can't be PIE/IE because he has shamanistic elements?

As if fucking PIE didn't indulge in esoteric rituals:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRlPt1zvg4&ab_channel=DanDavisHistory
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbIwi1HxmpE&ab_channel=DanDavisHistory
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNdLXKtWg3A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqOp81KQO4A

>>14776030
Because what we know as Norse paganism was invented four centuries after all Norse pagans have become Christians already

>>14776030
That's because Odin/Woden/Wotanaz is not the sky god figure. The sky god figure whose name is cognate with Dyaus was Tyr/Tiw/Tiwaz, to whom oaths were sworn. It's possible that the Odin-centricity of our knowledge of Norse Paganism might be because the Icelanders who were the best source were Odin devotees. Odin is definitely cut from the same cloth as Hermes/Mercury, since he's associated with prophesies, speaking to the dead and writing.

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>>14780537
Coinage venerating odin with his birds were already found dating to the 5th century

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>>14776030
>He has more of a dionysian element,
Dionysus literally means "Son/Child/Young Zeus", it is Hellenised version of Sabazios (which is sky god of Thracians)

>>14780537
>Because what we know as Norse paganism was invented four centuries
Roman records show Germanis had warrior deities (Romans thought these were Mars, Hercules and Mercury) as heads of pantheon.
Tacitus' Germania talks about it fr example hold on let me find the chapter

>>14780545
It'd be a shame if nordic paganism outside of island was just bog standard IE paganism, unironically. I had a soft spot for it because of the prophet wizard god being the head, instead of the usual sky thunder man (no shade to Zeus and Jupiter, even though I don't know if the latter even has any original myths not syncretized with other religions left)

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>>14780558
https://facultystaff.richmond.edu/~wstevens/history331texts/barbarians.html
>Above all other gods they worship Mercury, and count it no sin, on certain feast-days, to include human victims in the sacrifices offered to him. Hercules and Mars they appease by offerings of animals, in accordance with ordinary civilized custom. Some of the Suebi sacrifice also to Isis. I do not know the origin or explanation of this foreign cult; but the goddess's emblem, being made in the form of a light warship, itself proves that her worship came in from abroad. The Germans do not think it in keeping with the divine majesty to confine gods within walls or to portray them in the likeness of any human countenance. Their holy places are woods and groves, and they apply the names of deities to that hidden presence which is seen only by the eye of reverence.
Hercules - Half god warrior
Mercury - often associated with Artaios of Celts who is a warrior bear deity also deity of bandits merchants and thieves
Mars - god of war
Isis - Romano-Aegyptian goddess of death, implying a warrior goddess? Freyja? Frigg? Frijjo?

>>14780562
Looks like you're in luck since the god the Romans identified as Mercury and said was their head god was definitely Odin

>>14780564
But you understand that we can't reconstruct a whole religion based on a single account of an outsider and a Roman at that who didn't even take the time to write the names of the Gods.

>>14776063
>Not a very explored archetype in fiction or myth. The knowing usurper consumed by dread and fear of their eventual slaying by the worthy
What is Macbeth

>>14780593
https://dokumen.tips/documents/origo-gentis-langobardorum.html?page=1
http://www.thule-italia.org/Nordica/Paul%20the%20Deacon%20-%20History%20of%20the%20Lombards%20(1907)%20[EN].pdf
>It is certain, however, that the Langobards were afterwards so called on account of the length of their beards untouched by the knife, whereas at first they had been called Winnili; for according to their language "lang" means " long" and " bart " "beard." [1] Wotan indeed, whom by adding a letter they called Godan [2] is he who among the Romans is called Mercury, and he is worshiped by all the peoples of Germany as a god, though he is deemed to have existed, not about these times, but long before, and not in Germany, but in Greece.
Lombards of 7th and 8th century also seemed to have him as a chief deity, like Tacitus does Paul the Deacon does liken Godan/Wotan to Mercury

>>14780562
>It'd be a shame if nordic paganism outside of island was just bog standard IE paganism

What in the fuck does that even mean?
Indo-European and Proto-Indo-European are complete fictitious creations. There was no Mother culture/language/ethnicity called Proto-Indo-European. There is zero archeological evidence for it. It is "HYPOTHETICAL" at best.
It is an extremely broad category of culture to the point of complete meaninglessness.
Holy shit In France, Britain, Germany, Norway and Finland alone you have over 20 ethnic groups that came and went with very different Pagan mythos and traditions that went through at least 5 different cultural changes over 5000 years for each area with Paganism in its purest form ( Human and animal sacrifices ) still lingering on in 1100AD amongst the Rus.

>>14780593
>But you understand that we can't reconstruct a whole religion based on a single account of an outsider and a Roman at that who didn't even take the time to write the names of the Gods.
There are way more than two sources and yes with the information we have we CAN reconstruct the religion. We even know the calender used, was types of sacrifices for what events, special numbers, how they built their temples, how they used their temples, how their beliefs changed over time, how certain ceremonies were conducted. It just goes on and on.
I'm amazed at how little people actually bother to look up basic shit.

>>14780612
what brand of retard are you?
WE WUZ THE REAL ARYANS pajeet or some other species of larper?

>>14780640
>what brand of retard are you?
>WE WUZ THE REAL ARYANS pajeet or some other species of larper?
Why in the absolute flying fuck would an Indian write what I just wrote you fucking retard?
What in the actual fuck are you trying to say?
What is your Issue?
What do you disagree with?

For some reason norse mythology has some messed up roles
Odin is pushan/pan-hermes, however pushan seems to be associated with goats and goats pull his chariot, but that is what goats do for THOR instead.
Then you have a lot of iconography relative to the skyfather used in odin, but also he follows the role of psychopomp, which is the pushan/pan one, and he is a wandering god related to poetry and language.
Mire so, tyr seems to resemble both the skyfather and mars. So if he was the skyfather before they moved odin into that role, who was mars?

>>14780644
>Indo-European and Proto-Indo-European are complete fictitious creations.
That is a statement only someone unfathomably, shockingly ignorant of language, history and religion would ever make. I only hear it coming from 70 IQ indians. I didn't read the rest, based on that statement I knew it wasn't worth reading.

>>14780646
>Odin is pushan/pan-hermes
They are literally all different.
>tyr seems to resemble both the skyfather and mars
This is the vaguest most meaningless crap ever.
That's just as stupid as saying that Abraham is Buddha.
Just WTF.

>>14780650
>That is a statement only someone unfathomably, shockingly ignorant of language, history and religion would ever make
They literally don't exist anon. There was no mother "Indo-European" culture. Go back as far in time as you want in the archeological record and it is always multiple separate changing ethnic/cultural groups everywhere.
It's nothing more than a convenient academic hypothetical theoretical history and classification.

>>14776030
because the other skyfathers were based on the original indo-european, well, skyfather. Odin was based on the indo-european god of the wild hunt.

>>14780652
he was right about everything, your incredulity means nothing because you don't know anything about this topic.

>>14780676
>original indo-european, well, skyfather
The one that never existed?
There are pretty major differences between your various "skyfathers" anon.

>>14780685
>he was right about everything, your incredulity means nothing because you don't know anything about this topic.
No he wasn't. This is linking together very different characters with very loose similarities and then calling them the same in order to push a completely incorrect theory that fits along the lines of Indo-Europeanism, a culture and people that never existed.

>>14780646
>a wandering god related to poetry and language.
Nabu follows in the path of Sin

>>14776030
Thor is the actual skygod. Odin just kinda snuck his way in.

>>14776030
Nordic peoples have a lot of non-indo-european paternal DNA so most likely it's because the whole pantheon is actually a merging of indo-european and European mythology.

they still share the whole "world is created from the corpse of a giant" thing and the warrior God that runs around in the sky shooting lightning. but they kept their old god of wisdom and the afterlife as the king of the gods figure

>>14776030
>indo european
Shut up kike

>>14776854
>He is probably the psychopomp/mercury though.
he is literally Athena

>>14780978
So oðin is a tranny? Explains why
>He
uses seiðr

>>14780545
You are wrong. STJ explained there is no evidence Tiw is the sky god just because his name is cognate with sky. That word just means god in Germanic and does not mean sky. Tiw is not father of anyone and is not associated with the sky nor does he have sex with the earth - ODIN DOES.

Sky father is father of many gods, has sex with the earth, founds kingly races. All of these match Odin.

https://youtu.be/RIfB1LI79OQ

>>14781000
>STJ explained
Ohnononononononono

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>>14776030
first off the sun is only associated with the sky father as his subordinate. The sun can be his daughter or his eye. The sky father is more closely associated with the dawn, the horse twins and the earth mother than with any solar deity.

Odin is the ancestor of the horse twins - Hengest and Horsa. He is also consort of mother earth - Jord.

Secondly, the Apollonian.Dionysian dichotomy was invented by Nietszche and has no place in serious comparative mythology. But if you are referring to his dark aspects associated with human sacrifice, please remember that Jupiter was also associated with human sacrifice originally too. However the association of Odin with fury, with warrior bands of the koryos, with bears and wolves, may be due to his role as the god of the war band as Kershaw writes.

It may be that the warband god of the burial ground, like Rudra in India, was in Germanic Europe so important that he was merged with the sky father. While in Greece it seems the thunder god got merged with the sky father.

No IE religion preserved the sky father in a pure form. He is always merged with others.

>>14781002
Not a hecking troon friendly zog approved source kind redditor? He is a qualified historian. If you don't like it then debunk the sources he uses or fuck off and dilate

>>14780562
sky father and thunder striker are two different gods originally. the meds combined them into one. Vedic Indians also made the striker a king of heaven but kept him distinct from the sky father

>>14781023
>originally.
?
This whole thread is just vague broad connections trying to link all the worlds religions together to one original religion.
Incredibly stupid

>>14780668
Cope

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>>14781009
Is this pic a Chris Chan reference?

>>14781430
this lol, don't you guys read books. It is a proven fact every culture around the world just independently decided to start smelting metal and made up a bunch of stories that happen to tell the same events about 7 thousand years ago.

>>14781023
And book reccs of comparative indo-european mythology?
I am incredibly uninformed on the topic so it seems.

>>14781919
>Cope
Ah yes, the often used tranny word "cope".
>>14782215
>this lol, don't you guys read books
That's what Christ-Tards say when you criticize the old testament because you have read it.
>Every culture around the world just independently decided to start smelting metal
That is literally what happed. The dates and timelines are different for every group.
>made up a bunch of stories that happen to tell the same events about 7 thousand years ago
There are no identical cultures or art from 7000 years ago. In 2000BC they are still all different, in 0AD they are different, in 1000AD they are different.
>>14782252
>And book reccs of comparative indo-european mythology?
>I am incredibly uninformed on the topic so it seems
It's mostly speculative bullshit anon.

>indo-european denialism
what is this autism?
why do you think this? No don't give me whatever your retarded ass thinks is 'proof' that it's somehow a coincidence that half the fucking languages on earth share regular sound correspondences, extremely similar vocabulary and grammar, or that they typically have - at least ancestrally - polytheist pantheons that demand burnt sacrifices and fall in to the same few archetypes and even have extremely similar myths. You're wrong and I don't care, what I want to know is what mental illness makes this obvious nonsense appeal to you. Are you just seething that Aryans are just as connected with poos as with white people?

>>14776030
Apollo and Odin are both strongly magical, so your premise is flawed

>>14782688
I think it may have something to do with haploautism, but I can't say for certain. It's cancerous either way though.

>>14782671
Reccomend a book anyway, indo-european denialist anon.
Comparative mythology is speculation by definition.
But anyway, do state your actual case.
I want to hear it out. Why do you think it's bullshit, preferably using examples and sources.

>>14781430
>All the worlds
no, just a subset of Eurasian cultures.

>>14782755
It's entirely haploautism. Ever since Varg, then /his/, discovered that Haplo I-types are connected to the pre-IE old Europeans that had blond hair, blue eyes, and averaged 6'6", Yamna became Old and Busted and Gravettians became New Hotness.

>>14782688
>>indo-european denialism
>what is this autism?
How can you deny something that doesn't exist?
There is no mother Indo-European culture in the archeological record.
>somehow a coincidence that half the fucking languages on earth share regular sound correspondences
Umm... Humans are one species with a certain range of producible sounds that are usable in language. Many languages (Especially recently extinct languages) contain completely unique sounds. For example the Czech sound "ř" that was once also found in Poland.
>extremely similar vocabulary and grammar
Lol, yeah no.
>polytheist pantheons that demand burnt sacrifices and fall in to the same few archetypes and even have extremely similar myths
Anyone can chuck shit in a fire anon. It isn't a magical link and the myths are very different. Even in neighboring central European countries.
>You're wrong and I don't care, what I want to know is what...
Ok Pseudo-intellectual anon here is a little test for you. Is the concept of "God" in Hellenistic and Norse mythos the same?
No it isn't. It is drastically different. Norse "Gods" aren't immortal, They grow old, get sick and die in battle. They are more like humans with superhuman physical abilities and magic.
>Are you just seething that Aryans are just as connected with poos as with white people?
Aryans were just ancient Iranians anon. They weren't white or Indian. They didn't create European tech or culture so it is completely irrelevant.

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>Lol, yeah no.

>>14782792
>Comparative mythology is speculation by definition.
Yet, you are aren't treating it like a speculative theory. You are all talking about Indo-European as if an ancient archeological site was discovered and determined to be the original Indo-European mother culture.

>>14782992
>You are all talking about Indo-European as if an ancient archeological site was discovered and determined to be the original Indo-European mother culture.
No?

>>14783014
>No?
yes...that's what you people do all the fucking time.

>>14783056
No? You're the only one who said that. And you also say that we try to apply the Indo-European to every language and culture on Earth which is just laughably wrong. Are you just shitposting, or are you absurdly misinformed about what people actually say about the Indo-European language family?

>>14776859
>the Skyfather, who is associated with "rage/madness/frenzy" in Greece, in Italy
You cannot possibly be serious.

>>14783148
>You cannot possibly be serious.
This is "Indo-European" logic anon.
It's stupid and factually incorrect with shit like this.

>>14783068
>No? You're the only one who said that.
No YOU are saying that. YOU actually believe that All the languages/cultures in Russia, Europe, India, Pakistan, Afghanisan, Iran, Iraq, Turkey etc came from one people thousands of Years ago.
This whole fucking thread is full of people directly equivalencing gods from multiple religions.
>every language and culture on Earth
You obviously haven't heard of the other batshit insane theory your ilk have come up with
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Human_language
>Are you just shitposting, or are you absurdly misinformed about what people actually say about the Indo-European language family?
Are you pretending to be stupid? or just naturally stupid?

>>14783436
Oh you're just trolling. good day sir! good luck with the (You)s

>>14783449
Oh, you're an idiot without an argument who was just called out for their bullshit.
Sucks to be you.

>>14783436
>All the languages/cultures in Russia, Europe, India, Pakistan, Afghanisan, Iran, Iraq, Turkey etc came from one people thousands of Years ago
not all, there other language families on those place afterall
the genealogical relation between those languages is base in the sheer regularity of cognates, sound correspondences and grammar structures both in living and ancient languages with archaeology and genetics supporting the scenario of a populations of pastoralist tribes expanding from the pontic steppe to those places around the late neolitic/early bronze age

>You obviously haven't heard of the other batshit insane theory your ilk have come up with
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Human_language
never really accepted and the article itself cite the many methodological errors and other problems pointed by the same historical linguists that support PIE

>>14783711
>not all, there other language families on those place afterall
Nope, they all came from an ancient Indo-European peoples.
>the genealogical relation between those languages is base in the sheer regularity of cognates, sound correspondences and grammar structures
It's very weak correlations....None of it suggesting an ancient mono language.
>ancient languages
The differences between ancient languages is huge when they should be more similar compared to the modern era if they descended from a common ancestor.
>archaeology and genetics supporting the scenario of a populations of pastoralist tribes expanding from the pontic steppe to those places around the late neolitic/early bronze age
This doesn't make any sense when you look at the locations of different archeological sites going back to 10,000BC (there is no suggestion of such a migration unless you get very creative with the data).
It is purely an arbitrary classification. Also doesn't explain the development of written languages in some places but not in others.
The technology development definitely doesn't suggest it.
>never really accepted
It makes just as much sense as Indo-European anon. People do accept it.
It is the logical final conclusion to the ideology of Indo-Europeanism.

>>14783927
>Nope, they all came from an ancient Indo-European peoples.
Noone claims finno-ugric languages or dravidian languages are IE.

>>14783934
>Noone claims finno-ugric languages or dravidian languages are IE
These exceptions show how much of a Joke Indo-European is as a concept.

>>14784041
you have severe brain damage
>>14776593
There are, they just are usually subordinate.
Tiwaz (Luwian) being an interesting exception.

>>14783711
>>14783934
>>14784071
stop fucking replying, there's no way he's actually that stupid, those are intentional fallacies.

>>14776063
Marius of Rom after taking on his 7th and final consulship, lived his final days in Rome in a state of debauchery and fear of the return of Sula "the lion". Shares a similar dynamic.

>>14776063
A big damn wolf isn't "worthy". Fenrir is the avatar of inevitable physical annihilation. You could say he's like an animistic interpretation of Shiva but it's Ragnarok itself that is the end and new beginning (for Baldur who could be synchronized with Christ and Adonis).

>>14778612
You seem to have parasites or something, none of the things you're implying as cognates actually are, mixing Indo-European and Semitic myths as if they were one without even like Greece or fucking anything as a cultural mediator or buffer between the two, also not even in coherent Jungian type of way. Pure psuedology.

>>14784592
>nobody ever slotted thoth in to the same category of gods as hermes, mercury, and odin!
r u dum?

>>14784592
You seem to be willfully ignorant of the trade routes between the north sea and egypt,- and whom they were comprised of.
everything does not revolve around the sweaty balls of your greek uncle.

>>14776030
All Norse gods have a "Dionysian element", they were only starting the urbanization process in Northern Europe. So they're going to have some weird chthonic traits and dark deeds, especially Odin. But if you have to look at it in the context he's much more similar to Apollo. The asceticism, the focus on wisdom, even the animals they're associated with, etc. In truth Ingvi-Freyr is the closest among Norse gods to Dionysus, or any god of any other pantheon for that matter.

>>14779354
Yeah they can join the 40%. There is no non-IE origin for Odin, his name is IE, even if there are some exclusive elements or Uralic influence, whatever he's still in an IE pantheon.

>>14778612
>Thor was a thracian Vanir prince
vanir is not a thing that exists, Thor was aesir because aesir and vanir both simply mean "gods"
>Njordr was said to have been taken hostage
Yes, by Jotnar
>and given to the scandi princess Skadi as husband.
Skathi was duped into marrying him. Skathi is also a jotunn, meaning she can't be "scandi" because she's not even human
>Njorthr is Thor
jfc what

>>14784606
I was more alluding to the Osiris/Aesir pseudology and things of that sort not your red herring.

>>14784621
What are you implying here? Cultural exchange between the Hyksos (as opposed to Thebes or other real, actual Egyptians) and whom? Bronze age Nordics?

>>14784621
>Trade routes between the north sea and egypt
Though at least 5 to 10 intermediaries, yes. Be it overland or by sea. Not saying no Egyptian ever reached Scandinavia but I seriously doubt contact would be frequent enough for any syncretism to exist.

>>14784627
>The Giants are just made up and have no real life counterpart
please, do not post in mythology threds.

>>14784742
>The Giants
jotnar is connected to the proto-germanic word for "eat," they're not giants you fucking mongoloid.

>>14784627
you're a retard.
read up on who the factions of the war of Actium was, and what kind of soldiers and mercenaries they paid.
and most importantly, from where the victor of that war recently had arrived from.
you seem to have zero clue about how rome took over the power from egypt and greece.

>>14782252
read through this wiki to start. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_mythology

But good books:
Mitra-Varuna by Dumezil
Comparative mythology by Puhvel
All of Bruce Lincoln's stuff

>>14782671
quiet brown person.

>>14782944
Varg doesn't even believe in genetics or Indo-Europeans. He is a retard like you. This has more to do with Harvard's discoveries than anything else.

This thread is pretty funny because it's obvious that nobody actually knows much about the religions they are comparing.
>>14785106
>read through this wiki to start. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_mythology
God no lol. Don't read the suggested books either.
Learn about the various religions and then compare them yourself. Otherwise anyone can say anything and you'll just accept it.

>>14785106
>Varg doesn't even believe in genetics or Indo-Europeans
Genetics doesn't point to the existence of a founding Indo-European ethnicity. Varg is still alive?

>>14785106
>Varg doesn't even believe in genetics or Indo-Europeans. He is a retard like you. This has more to do with Harvard's discoveries than anything else.
While he does believe that the paleogenetics that show it was spread mostly by migration is a lie from (((you know who))), Varg has never gone as far as to deny the IE language family.

>>14784697
you are aware of there being phoenecian towers in the british isles, and there being identical shipcarvings in greece as those in sweden and norway, right?
The tin and amber did not get traded through germany, dummy.

>>14776030
Odin appears to be quite different from the sky-father gods of Indo-European myths because of his strong affinity to chaos. Chaos is a natural condition of existence before the formation of order and laws. So, Odin’s atypicality is a remnant of pre-Indo-European beliefs.

>>14776030
It is the traveling wiseman/ fatherly sacrifice archtype. Very similar to jesus.

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>>14776030
>>14777379
Praise Allfather-Imperator Sol Invictus.

>>14776063
>he live shis life fearing and preparing for the reckonig.
He doesn't fear it, he just acknowledges it

>>14777379
Why did you prove his point?

>>14786139
Ancient Germanics had a strong belief in law though, even as semi literate bar bar it was one of their most honorable attributes and biggest areas of contribution during the middle ages. People play up the dark and manipulative side of Odin but the truth is that he had one ultimate and constant goal; the creation of a race of warriors. Now Germanic countries are full of retarded fags. Sad!

>>14784234
>Good luck ever finding the non existent Indo-European civilization anons.
Thanks I already did though

>>14782944
Gravettian mammoth hunters, so hot right now.

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Odin would be R1a or R1b since Battle Axe had R1a elites. Just like Vikings.


Why are l1 niggers wewuzzing so much.

>>14787125
I mean he is clearly preparing for it at least. The fear part might've just been a projection on my part.

>>14787232
There are some parallels between Gravettiand and IE though. Both coming from the east, the males towering over most locals they encountered, Y-DNA mediated replacement, their technology was different and mostly better, they wore more advanced and decorative clothing, their culture was less advanced in terms of highly detailed art compared to Aurignacians but everything else was simply more impressive. I think EHG and thus IE had some of their ancestry from an isolated pocket of eastern Gravettians, which further explains the autosomal similarities of EHG and WHG. Meanwhile WHG had an autosomal possibly mtDNA mediated resurgence from Aurignacian DNA at the expense of western Gravettian autosomal DNA, leading to them becoming shorter and more neotenous again.

In the fantasy book The Broken Sword Odin is kinda a jackass who more or less manipulates (or does fully engineer in one edition) the death of a family, an act of incest, gifting a cursed weapon to a baby, stealing of a baby etc. all seemingly to hold off Ragnarok. He also basically laughs at people’s problems and a core theme is that the Norse gods are cruelly moving people around on a chess board. Is any of that characterization accurate? I know basically nothing about the real stories btw

>>14787245
Bell Beakers crushed the BAC centuries before I1 even came on the scene my dude, well except that one I1 from Battle Axe.

Also Gwyn is confirmed I1

>>14787279
WHG up I more like gravettian media than aurignacian media. Also as per some recent qpgraphs, the western ancestry of any is more like aurignacian than gravettian though there are in conflict with other qpgraphs.

>>14787326
*whg mtdna is more like gravettian

>>14787317
l1 is a cuckold incel haplogroup

>>14787340
>literally exists by means of raping r1a women
Heh, nothing personal

>>14787317
There isn't an I1 in BAxe culture
In all likelihood they arrived with flint dagger single grave r-u106 guys from modern denmark. There's nothing particularly interesting about them.

Women don't have paternal lines and l1 was always peasant group of cuckolds. Elite Viking graves are in majority R1a. Meaning l1 are shitty peasant farmer cowards, R1 are conquerors.

Even to this day l1 is an incel minority in Scandinavia.

>>14787391
>a final stage from c. 3,800 BP onwards, where a distinct cluster of Scandinavian individuals dominated by males with I1 Y-haplogroups appears (Extended Data Fig.8E). Using individuals associated with this cluster (Scandinavia_4000BP_3000BP) as sources in supervised ancestry modelling (see “postBA”, Extended Data Fig. 4), we find that it forms the predominant source for later Iron- and Viking Age Scandinavians, as well as ancient European groups outside Scandinavia who have a documented Scandinavian or Germanic association (e.g., Anglo-Saxons, Goths; Extended Data Fig. 4).
>Y-chromosome haplogroup I1 is one of the dominant haplogroups in present-day Scandinavians,s, and we document its earliest occurrence in a ~4,000-year-old individual from Falköping in southern Sweden (NEO220). The rapid expansion of this haplogroup and associated genome-wide ancestry in the early Nordic Bronze Age indicates a considerable reproductive advantage of individuals associated with this cluster over the preceding groups across large parts of Scandinavia.

>>14787374
2 samples of BAxe culture
No conclusions can be taken from this surely

>>14787374
Oll009 had BAC ancestry but hasn't been dated with any certainty. Most I1 graves came after the flint dagger period

>>14787391
No need to deliberately pretend to be autistic. Beaker BVLLS were taking R1a women bro don't seethe about it all these thousands of years later. It was probably consensual even

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NEWS: Dixie are burning down churches and are worshiping the divinity of their own love and Dixie girls instead of “the king of Israel”

Christianity hinges on the idea that they came up with their baseline morals first. While they burned the books of other religions. Yin and Yang is the same as “do unto others as you’d have done unto yourself”. It’s older and includes no dogmatism. The highest power is the highest love, only love saves.

Paganism is monotheism as the only god is love.

>>14787571
You really have no excuse for this autism. None of the mythology isn't Indo-European, it's one of the major written sources for the study of comparative IE myth.

>>14787437
R1b graves were poor compared to R1a ones. Dig more into the subject. Reality doesn't care about your feefees.

>start of thread
>mythological discussion of historical sources
>scroll bottom
>haplotard autism

every time

>>14785187
>Genetics doesn't point to the existence of a founding Indo-European ethnicity
Yes it does.

>>14783148
>I have never heard of Dionysus
lol

>>14787815
>dyonisius
>the skyfather

>>14787824
Yes. This is Greek Mythology 101. Dionysus is Zeus. The Greeks themselves say so. Your "Tyr is actually the Sky Father" argument DOES work here, ironically, because "Zeus" and "Dionysus" derive from the same source (*Dyew(s)-). This is sort of cheating, however, because the "dio-" in Dionysus is actually literally just "Zeus". Specifically, the genitive of "Zeus" (Yes, the genitive of "Ζεύς" is "Διός"), meaning that his name means something like "That of Zeus", originally referring the ecstatic state that was sent out by the Skyfather (hence why Dionysus is partying with the revelers, he's the ecstatic state). A similar sort of phenomena happened in India concerning Vishnu, who was initially just the personified power of Indra's Vajra ("Vishnu" roughly means something like "the ever-present power").

Let's not even get started on Shiva.

>>14787857
Typical I1 Nazi LARPer, falling for Jewish tricks. Educate yourself
https://theapolloniantransmission.com/2019/05/19/zion-a-synonym-for-bacchus-elysium-racial-decadence/

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>>14787786
There was one "poor" R1b grave in BAC, he was possibly executed. Any more examples? Many more later burials show R1b beakers coming into Scandinavia with robust borreby type skulls like pic rel

>>14787807
The I1 burials especially those who had a founder effect before the NBA were from Kurgan graves, these were warriors with a high status in their culture typically and many were buried with R1b and R1a guys (not that the fag I'm responding to above needs to know)

>>14787878
nta but this is just some schizo extrapolation of a shitty scifi sequel. Also he's arguing for an Indo-European origin of these gods and explaining things with linghidtics. Do you have an actual point?

>>14787895
there aren't any r1b in BAxe contexts. The only one pre-flint dagger period is a forager with a R-P297* HG
None of the early Danish or Swedish R1b are in particularly extravagant burials

>>14785857
>phoenecian towers in the british isles
There are no Phoenecian towers in Britain anon lol.
This fucking room lol.
>>14786139
>Odin appears to be quite different from the sky-father gods of Indo-European myths because of his strong affinity to chaos. Chaos is a natural condition of existence before the formation of order and laws. So, Odin’s atypicality is a remnant of pre-Indo-European beliefs.
So you just made up a story lol. There is zero evidence for Odin being anywhere near that old.
Odin isn't any more "chaotic" than the other gods.
Nothing about this makes any sense.
>>14786142
>It is the traveling wiseman/ fatherly sacrifice archtype. Very similar to jesus.
Lol wtf... Indo-European faggots man...
What a joke.
>>14787229
>Thanks I already did though
You imagined it after a drug trip?
>>14787312
>In the fantasy book The Broken Sword Odin is kinda a
IE morons quoting fantasy books...
>>14787571
>asatru
Asatru is a modern made up religion.
They don't even attempt to be historically accurate.
>>14787800
>>start of thread
>>mythological discussion of historical sources
IE idiots equivalencing dissimilar gods because they haven't actually read anything about those gods from primary sources.
>>14787815
>Yes it does.
No it doesn't anon....
>>14787857
Dionysus is a son of Zeus you fucking retard.
What the fuck IE idiots...

>>14788041
RISE98 was BAC or at least classified as such initially. Many sources say Late Neolithic as a broad brush because pre-NBA finds can't be dated precisely. More than likely RISE98 was a Bell Beaker mogger with BAC ancestry killed along with women and children by resentful BAChuds.

>>14788517
Why do you fucking imbeciles talk about everything in memes to the point of incoherent illiteracy?

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>>14788329
it was supervised by phoenecian traders, but funded and labored by Gallic natives - sure, but the style and reason they exist is because of imported phoenecian architects since the tin-trade first existed.
ever wondered why mary magdalene, st. paul and st. peter all visited the area around Isle of Man?
It is because the galatians were close allies with the tribe of Mannasseh (Manx), whom Magdalene belonged to and was named after.

>>14789953
None of the apostles visited the British Isles.

>>14789959
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

>>14790103
Ok, maybe 1 did. But you are just a schizo, a very coherent schizo, however.

>>14790109
just let it simmer in the back of your head anon.
eventually you will stumble across the same sources and realize you were right about it being coherent.

>>14789953
>it was supervised by phoenecian traders, but funded and labored by Gallic natives - sure, but the style and reason they exist is because of imported phoenecian architects since
NO YOU FUCKING IDIOT
That style of tower only exists in fucking Scotland and it has no cultural, architectural or technological connection with the Phoenicians.
You are mentally ill.
>reason they exist is because of imported phoenecian architects since the tin-trade first existed.
Ancient Phoenicians never reached Britain you idiot. British tin trade went Britain -> France->Spain/Italy/Greece->Middle East.
>ever wondered why mary magdalene, st. paul and st. peter all visited the area around Isle of Man?
None of the apostles visited Britain anon.
>It is because the galatians were close allies with the tribe of Mannasseh (Manx), whom Magdalene belonged to and was named after.
The other anons are right, you are schizophrenic. You are mixing up vaguely similar words.
The Galatians were eastern French Pagans.
Mannasseh Was a Jewish King residing in Israel.
Manx are an Isle of Man ethnic group.
Mary Magdalene was not named after the Manx or Mannasseh.
None of these people or groups ever came in contact with or knew each other.
You need to take your lithium pills.

>>14776692
>>Dyeus derives from bright
Huh, in swedish bright is "ljus", which sounds sort of the same

>>14784762
>jötnar aren't giants even though giant is literally the modern word for them
Wut

>>14790326
>Mannasseh Was a Jewish King residing in Israel.
The king was named after the tribal faction of the same name, which is older than the kingdom of Israel dumdum.

>>14788329
I wasn’t quoting a fantasy book to make an argument about anything in the thread, I was just asking if the portrayal was accurate cause there seems to be a lot of norse mythologyfags itt who would know

>>14787312
>Is any of that characterization accurate?
Yes and no. The actions are somewhat on point, but the intent behind it isn't. The way I see it, in norse mythology, you have a 3-way contrast between the characters of Thor, Odin, and Loki. They run on a spectrum from most good to most bad in the order I listed. Thor is fated to die at ragnarok, but he neither does bad things, nor does he have an evil heart. Odin is in the middle, he is also fated to die at ragnarok, but because of his overwhelming fear, he does bad things, though he isn't necessarily evil. Loki is not fated to die at ragnarok, and he does bad things and for bad reasons.

>>14776692
You’re slightly off. Tyr -> Tiwaz -> Deiwos, meaning “god” or deity. And deiwos probably has some connection to dyaus, but Tyr -> Dyaus is not direct like Zeus/Jupiter - Dyaus/Dyaus Pater

It’s a common misconception

>>14790674
>I wasn’t quoting a fantasy book
You were quoting a fantasy book and no, it isn't an accurate portrayal. You are asking idiot 4chan people for their opinions rather than getting off your ass and actually reading about Norse mythology yourself.
>>14790666
>The king was named after the tribal faction of the same name
THE MANX DIDN'T LIVE IN ISRAEL YOU FUCKING SCHIZOPHRENIC IDIOT.
YOUR FUCKING BRAIN ACTUALLY THINKS
THAT MANNASSEH WAS KING OF MANX
BECAUSE THEY BOTH START WITH THE
LETTER "M". HOLY FUCKING SHIT.

>>14776030
It's because he's not a god, you can literally witness the euhemerization in real-time. There is no attestation of Odin prior to the 5th century AD, and the first attestation of him as a deity rather than a mortal king is in the 8th or 9th century at best. Thor (or possibly Tyr, though that's somewhat less likely) was the chief god of the Germanic pantheon, equivalent to Poseidon and Perun, and the derivation of Perkwunos of the proto-Indo-Europeans. Odin however is evidently a warrior chief or shaman of the 3rd or 4th centuries who led a priestly revolution that altered Germanic religious practices, and he was eventually deified some centuries after he died.

>>14778612
this is an incredibly based schizopost (it's wrong though, but still based)

>>14787824
Dionysus was literally worshiped as the chief god in Mycenae, Zeus as such is totally absent prior to Hesiod

>>14792120
Tuatha de Danaan
Danaan = Danaoi
Tribe of Dan

>>14792120
that is not what i said, retard.
the manx are to the tribe of manasseh what the danes are to the danites,- both being northern outposts of those tribes,- because they participated in the amber-tin traderoutes because of their alliance with egypt.
The israelites were in large parts responsible in being a middleman in egyptian foreign trade, because they themselves were foreign allies of egypt.

>>14792250
>>14792206
THAT IS WHAT YOU SAID SCHIZOPHRENIC MORON. STFU AND KILL YOURSELF.
NOTHING YOU HAVE SAID IS TRUE.
>the manx are to the tribe of manasseh what the danes are to the danites,- both being northern outposts of those tribes
SEE, YOU JUST SAID IT AGAIN.
YOU ARE SO FUCKING MENTALLY ILL THAT YOU THINK EVERY WORD STARTING WITH THE SAME LETTER MEANS THE SAME THING.
LITHIUM PILLS NOW ANON. TAKE THE FUCKING PILLS.

>>14788329
>Dionysus is a son of Zeus you fucking retard.
Are you saying that the Greeks who said that they were the same God were wrong?

>>14791411
It's been explained to him multiple times. He's not going to change his opinion because he's a midwit. He glommed onto something that he barely understands, and he considers it a personal attack to point him out as being incorrect.

>>14792150
>Tyr was the Skyfather
No, Odin is. Read the thread.

>>14776561
care to explain why?

>>14776579
>Odin is associated with the sun

source?

>>14780973
cope

>>14792500
Ignoring the connection between Tyr->Tiw->Tiwaz->Deiwos->Dyeus->*Dyēus Ph2tḗr seems kind of disingenuous, especially when we know that Tiwaz existed within Germanic cultures for centuries prior to the first archaeological attestation of Odin among North Germanics. Odin remained completely and conspicuously absent in the religion of Southern and Eastern Germanics (i.e., Visigoths, Ostrogoths, Vandals) prior to their Christianization in the 5th-6th centuries. Even within what little is known of Odin's character verified diegetically, none of it corresponds to a sky-father figure; everything that gives Odin characters of a chief deity akin to a PIE Sky-Father is a Christian interpolation by Snorri Sturlusson in the 12th-13th centuries, a -long- time after the conversion of the Danes and Norse.

he's literally a jewish invention, read Mark Brahmin and Richard Spencer on this topic

>>14792508
The bit about blasting the dragon/hill in Ynglinga saga, his eye being the moon/sun, his golden throne being the highest point in the cosmos, how he can see everything from his throne (like the sun), literally everything about how Orlog works (tl;dr it's like the suns rays), his association with storms and lightning (that is to say that he's the one that summons Thor), and Valhalla being a giant golden fortress at the top of the world (the sun) covered in spears (sunrays).

This is leaving out comparisons to the Greek, Hindu, or Slavic mythoses, and is ignoring more abstract Indo-Europeanisms (like his relationship with Freyja who has Dawn Goddess imagery).

>>14792472
The Medinet Habu inscription describes the Denyen (Danaan/Danaoi = incontrovertibly Mycenaean), along with the Ekwesh (Achaoi/Achaeans) as circumcised, like the Hebrews (Danites)
Kind of hard to ignore that kind of archaeology

>>14792594
>Ynglinga saga
you realize that was basically fanfiction invented by a Christian monk trying to adapt what little scraps of Norse mythology he could glean from oral tradition into a Christian theological framework, right? that's a bit like taking Dante's Inferno and going "this is what Jesus of Nazareth preached"

>>14792577
>especially when we know that Tiwaz existed within Germanic cultures for centuries prior to the first archaeological attestation of Odin among North Germanics
"Tiwaz" being attested is precisely how we know that Odin is the Skyfather, because "Tiwaz" isn't what the Germanic descendent of *Dyew(s)- would look like. See >>14776790.

>Odin remained completely and conspicuously absent in the religion of Southern and Eastern Germanics (i.e., Visigoths, Ostrogoths, Vandals)
We know basically nothing about these peoples religion period outside of very small snippets, one of which is that they worship "Mercury", who sounds a whole heck of a lot like Odin (psychopomp, inventor of magic, inventor of writing, wanderer, etc) and they were worshiping Odin around the 8th century (as the Old Saxon Baptismal Vow attests).

>everything that gives Odin characters of a chief deity akin to a PIE Sky-Father is a Christian interpolation by Snorri Sturlusson
This is just flat out incorrect. The Poetic Edda pretty clearly makes him the Skyfather. See >>14776859.
>Meanwhile, compare Odin, who does wield a spear, is a king, is the father of all creation, is married to the Earth-Mother, has a son who is the Striker, has tons of head imagery associated with him, rules the world, is associated with hanging, and is associated with the cosmic cow.
That's all in the Poetic Edda, we don't need Snorri to tell us any of that.

>>14792611
>invented by a Christian monk
Snorri wasn't a Christian monk. He wasn't even a cleric, he was a nobleman. You also haven't read the Prose Edda.

Also, you have to pick. Is it either
>fanfiction
or
>Norse mythology he could glean from oral tradition
Because it can't be both. He either made it up, or he's relaying information.

>Christian theological framework
No, Jews did not invent the idea of an afterlife, although you could make a good argument that the Jews got the idea of an afterlife realm from Indo-Europeans.

>>14792623
>Earliest confirmed copy of the Poetic Edda dates to the 13th century, over 200 years after the Christianization of Scandinavia
>is attributed to a 12th century Christian priest
So in other words its fake made up bullshit that has nothing to do with what the Germanics actually believed. Tell me when you obtain contemporaneous Scandinavian literature. OH WAIT - YOU CAN'T, BECAUSE GERMANICS WERE AN ILLITERATE CULTURE THAT FORBADE THE TRANSCRIPTION OF THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS

>>14792633
By definition, if he was literate in the medieval era, he was a cleric. You're right about the monk bit, I confused his position with Saemundr the Learned, the Christian priest who composed the Poetic Edda.

>>14792646
The Poetic Edda dates to around 900AD, we can tell by the language and the fact that there are lines from it in earlier texts. Thus, the Poetic Edda either draws from an extant oral tradition, or draws from texts written down that were drawing from an extant oral tradition. We can also compare the archaeological record, which visually displays many of the stories in the texts (such as Odin hanging on the tree, or Thor's fishing trip).

>ILLITERATE
Runes.

>THAT FORBADE THE TRANSCRIPTION OF THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS
I don't think that you're in any position to have an opinion on this topic given that you haven't done the slightest bit of research on it.

>>14792651
No, he was not. "Cleric" in Christianity has a very specific meaning. He was not an ordained clergyman of the Catholic Church.

>Saemundr the Learned
Did not write the Poetic Edda, as the numerous hands throughout the text demonstrate, although Lutheran tradition holds that he does.

>>14792678
>he thinks futhark is the same as literacy
lol
lmao
the entire extent of Germanic "literature" prior to their conversion to Christianity consists of "Jarl so and so bought the land around this rock" or "Ingvar Brown-ass took a shit thirty times without wiping"

>>14792702
>anti-white has a melty when proven wrong
like clockwork lmfao

just skip to the part where you spam the thread with thai garden sheds while ranting about "mudhuts"

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>>14792722
>somehow construes my posts as "anti-white"
Ah, that explains the Odin-obsession. I should have known haploautism was behind this.

>>14792646
Did you just confuse Medieval Scandinavia with the druids?

>>14792801
He's a haplonigger, what do you expect?

>>14792603
and guess what, the major apostle preaching the end of circumsition (Saul of tarsus aka st. Paul) was one of 2 apostles to visit britain, specifically the lesser isles - the maritime region from which Gerða was a native - the founding mother of the Ynglings/Angles.
wouldn't be too hard to believe that a princess would hear the new teachings of her tribal superior and stop circumsition after that.
Paulian christianity is also remarkably aligned with the very earliest celtic/nordic arianist view of christ as the human son of god, similar to the dynamic between Thor and Odin, ringing especially true when one considers that Thoth is Enoch - the undisputable biblical lineage of God.
the fault that many people act out is to believe that things are further separated than they really are.
european royalty has ALWAYS been more closely knit than the overall population.

>>14776030
Odin is not skyfather. Odin is Chaos, the Allfather.
Wodan = Khaos

>>14792702
I don't think there was Germanic literature before conversion. Runes carved into stones and buildings isn't /lit/. Nothing wrong with this either they just didn't want to urbanize.

>>14792195
That's genuinely incredible if true, especially in light of recent genetic finds, particularly paternal continuity from Minoans and the signs of Dionysus' cult existing before Indo-Europeanization. Anon is there any material to read about such things or do you just scour various journals and etc like the rest of us plebs?

>>14792150
Even people who claim his status as king of the gods is much more recent than the 5th century don't make such claims that he was absent from the pantheon until so late.

>>14792500
>Are you saying that the Greeks who said that they were the same God were wrong?
They never said that you idiot. Nobody has ever said that. Holy shit anon. IE 4chan idiots can't even get basic mythology correct.
>>14792603
OMG SHIZO TAKE YOUR FUCKING PILLS
NOTHING YOU ARE SAYING EVER CHECKS OUT. STFU
>>14792646
>So in other words its fake made up bullshit that has nothing to do with what the Germanics actually believed
By that logic all major religions around the world are fake and made up because they weren't written down instantly within the lifetimes of the originators.
>>14792928
STFU samefagging schizophrenic lunatic.
>>14793079
It's completely made up bullshit anon.

>>14791962
Is he /ourguy/?

>>14789429
To filter (you)

>>14793107
>To filter (you)
No, Because you are almost all criminally stupid.

>>14793150
Pure projection. Maybe lurk for a few years before posting again

>>14793157
>Pure projection. Maybe lurk for a few years before posting again
No, you are pure projection. Have you even read the stupid shit that people have said?
Phoenician towers in Britain - WRONG
Pagans not having writing - WRONG
Manx are Manasseh - WRONG
Dionysus is Zeus -WRONG
Osiris is Aesir -WRONG
What the fuck can anyone gain from lurking around mentally ill shit eaters for years?
I understand that it's your online autistic friendship group.

>>14776030
>He's not associated with the sun as most of the others are.
Maybe because it's cold and shitty in eight-month-winter north.

>>14793094
Is he racist?

>>14793221
You call us autists with various dumb theories, I personally hate some of the things you mentioned even on a conceptual level. But I don't go screeching about it, mass replying like my PhD depends on it. Were autistic? Almost certainly. But you're still projecting I says.

>>14793355
I hope so.

>>14780970
Anon is right. The Norse mythology is a merger of an older non indo-euro mythos from the original agrarian peoples. It caused a lot of fucky-wucky with the typical roles you see in other indo-euro mythos.

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>>14792928
absolute based schizo rant...I kneel...

>>14793079
Pre-Bronze Age Collapse Linear B inscriptions in certain Mycenaean sites do not attest "Zeus" as such, but routinely refer to "Di-wo" (obvious Deiwos etymology) and "Di-wo-nu-so" interchangeably. Interestingly, this Di-wo "Zeus" does seem to be (occasionally, though not always) a king of the gods in the stereotypical sky-father role, though without the complex genealogy of Kronos, Uranus, Chaos, Typhon, etc, and also lacking the thunder-god associations and endless love affairs which are developments of classical antiquity and Hesiod, but further compounding the confusion is that the Di-wo "Zeus" is equally associated with wine and grape cultivation that Dionysus is, which makes the separation of them into two distinct deities a later innovation.
However, most Mycenaean "literature", such as it is, suggests that Poseidon was worshiped as the primary war and thunder deity in an almost identical fashion to traditional Germanic mythology of Thor, who occupied the chief position in that pantheon before the Odin-innovation of the Anno Domini.

>>14793079
oh also
>or do you just scour various journals and etc like the rest of us plebs?
this, unfortunately, since I can't read Linear B and have to rely on trusting the Greek scholars who can

>>14793356
>But I don't go screeching about it,
Of course you don't, because you actually believe all that dumb shit and you're an autists that identifies with those other autists.
>mass replying like my PhD depends on it. Were autistic? Almost certainly. But you're still projecting I says.
You don't have a PhD or a degree for that matter and I wouldn't be infuriated by this threads idiocy if I was autistic like you.
>>14793403
Forever vaguely trying to fit religious/linguistic square pegs into the round holes of Indo-European bullshit.
Holy shit. This is what happens when unaccountable academics abuse their positions and their idiocy enables even greater mental illness from 4chan autists.
Democratized and politicized science combined with entrenched taxpayer money parasitism from academics is a serious problem that is eroding away the intellectual legitimacy of all higher education.

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>>14793487
seething that your nordic aryan religion isn't master race capeshit

>>14793479
Incredible. I recall seeing something about this now.
>>14793484
Ah well, you certainly paint an interesting picture nonetheless.

>>14793487
lel you're mad on the internet again anon.

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>>14793501
nta but this is retarded. Runes predate the earliest gokturk alphabet by many centuries, almost a millennia. Modern scholars are fairly certain that if any cultures played a role in the development of futhark it was Etruscans, with a smaller camp saying possibly ancient Greeks like how the Gothic alphabet (also predating gokturk alphabet by centuries) was inspired by Greeks/eastern Romans who educated them.

>>14793507
Wikipedia itself has little to say on the subject (which is odd, since I distinctly remember the article being substantially more fleshed out when I first looked at it several years ago) but the citations it links to are interesting. They all uniformly state that Dionysus is the earliest attested god in the Mycenaean pantheon, which is a seemingly bizarre state of affairs for what Hesiod describes as little more than a throwaway divinity of drunken debauchery, and suggests the reality is far deeper than that - though of course this is all inference, as there is no "smoking gun" that explicitly spells out archaic pre-Greek religious beliefs saying "Dionysus and Zeus are actually the same deity, and it's a generic standardized PIE sky-father figure"

>>14793484
>>14792195
I didn't know that. That's pretty interesting. So Zeus almost fused with Dionysus?
>>14793079
>particularly paternal continuity from Minoans.
Do you mean just Minoans from Crete or are you talking about al pre-indo-european greeks. (Pelasgasians and what now)
>the signs of Dionysus' cult existing before Indo-Europeanization
wait really? Tell me more. I never thought Dionysius was a paleo-European god. I had heard some things about him being absent from other IE pantheons.
Just by the way, what journals do you people scour? I'm a newfag in this.

>>14793501
>seething that your nordic aryan religion isn't master race capeshit
I never said it was idiot.
You are stupid and historically illiterate.
And what the fuck is with quoting a historian that lived 350 years ago who didn't have access to newly discovered archeological finds?
Old Turkic script or Göktürk script dates back to 700 AD
the oldest Elder Futhark Runes Date back to 1 AD.
Ogham goes Back to 400 AD.

>>14793510
>lel you're mad on the internet again anon.
Lol, you're an autistic genetic reject lol....

>>14793552
>there is no "smoking gun" that explicitly spells out archaic pre-Greek religious beliefs saying "Dionysus and Zeus are actually the same deity
BECAUSE THEY AREN'T AND NEVER WERE THE SAME YOU FUCKING IDIOT.
>>14793585
STFU idiot.

>>14793585
>the signs of Dionysus' cult existing before Indo-Europeanization
I'm not wholly convinced of this because the pre-Greek substratum is almost impossible to unravel, and Minoan Linear A is untranslatable.
>So Zeus almost fused with Dionysus?
It's safer to claim the obverse - Zeus and Dionysus split overtime from a single original identity that contained all the relevant mythological associations of both gods. Sort of like how the paleo-hebrews had bunch of different names for the same God: El, Elohim, El Elyon, El Shaddai, Sabaoth, Adonai, and finally Yahweh, though with the ironic counter-proposal of modern "scholars" that these are all indicators of an entire polytheistic pantheon of separate deities.

>>14793585
Predominately Minoans Crete as they seem to have been far more influential on Mycenaean culture than previously understood. Before that most recent paper came out showing many J2a finds many were expecting more J2b and of course R1b with some I2 which have been found in Yamnaya burials around all the eastern Mediterranean.
>tell me more
I'll look for a good source but yes it has been postulated for some time that the cult of Dionysus started in Minoans Crete but it's one of many candidates, evidence is very sparse where it does exist.

I'm not on board with Dionysus being the same as Zeus but it's entirely possible he had a similar function before the Greek dark ages, and it's certain he had far more importance in the bronze age than the classical age with the many cultural reforms of that era.

>absent in other IE pantheons
I'm normally not one to practice synchronism but it's kind of on topic for this thread. The god Ingvi or Freyr in the Norse pantheon is very similar to Dionysus and he's really an exception among northern Europeans like Celts and Slavs, other equivalents for Freyr are kind of absent. And like Dionysus it seems he lost importance as the ages passed.

>journals
I don't have my student pass to go on some I used to frequent but I personally like anthrogenica. Also Eupedia and theapricity but I haven't been on them in ages and they still post paywalled links. You can use sci-hub if you know what you're looking for and aren't afraid to use the dark web.

>>14793653
Not true I'm virile BVLL ask your mother, sisters, cousins, gf etc

>>14793692
>Not true I'm virile BVLL
No, you're dysgenic brain damaged pig shit who thinks substituting "u" for "v" is super duper cool.

>>14793712
You're trying to play the ivory tower gatekeeper on a site synonymous with autism, so you're definitely not the best authority on what is brain damaged or dysgenic.

>>14793768
in this case the ivory tower is sticking 3 feet out of a pool of shit and youre choosing to proudly lie face down on the ground.

>>14776063
The guy has infinite wisdom, enough to forsee his inevitable end. Imagine knowing the day you'll die and despite how mighty and prepared you are there is no other outcome. Any attempt to preserve the ones you love *will* fail, and your world will become fertilizer for the new gods that follow. His somber expression fits his burden of knowing

>>14793771
No one else is responding to you because you're an asshole and can't break things down for them or provide constructive criticism to them. When someone doesn't understand the difference between IE and Semitic cultures or know what the word cognate actually means I try to explain such things to them rather than just insult. It's a part of board culture. Try that instead of what you're doing maybe and you'll get better results.

>>14793782
>muh culture
pretty black excuse.

>>14793785
pretty /pol/tard mindset

>>14792587
Link?

>>14792587
>read retarded fags
No thank you.

>>14793692
Ah.
>Predominately Minoans Crete as they seem to have been far more influential on Mycenaean culture than previously understood.
Interesting. I guess it does make a bit of sense.
>I'll look for a good source but yes it has been postulated for some time that the cult of Dionysus started in Minoans Crete but it's one of many candidates, evidence is very sparse where it does exist.

>I'm not on board with Dionysus being the same as Zeus but it's entirely possible he had a similar function before the Greek dark ages, and it's certain he had far more importance in the bronze age than the classical age with the many cultural reforms of that era.
Fair enough.
>I'm normally not one to practice synchronism but it's kind of on topic for this thread. The god Ingvi or Freyr in the Norse pantheon is very similar to Dionysus and he's really an exception among northern Europeans like Celts and Slavs, other equivalents for Freyr are kind of absent. And like Dionysus it seems he lost importance as the ages passed.
Many gods/saints/whatnot are indeed forgotten.

>anthrogenica
I'll check it out.
>theapricity
I'm sure it'll be fine as long as I do not counter-signal blonde Romans or anything.

>>14794009
>I'm sure it'll be fine as long as I do not counter-signal blonde Romans or anything.
I hate to tell you this anon but.....
Some Romans were in fact blonde.....
Amazing I know...
>Many gods/saints/whatnot are indeed forgotten.
How would any of you know?
You guys can't even memorize basic information about the gods we do know.
>>14792587
>Richard Spencer
Richard Spencer is a fucking fed anon.
Completely irrelevant until the Trump campaign when the media were suddenly giving the "neo-nazi" multiple interviews and comparing him with Trump at every opportunity when trump had nothing to do with him.
The guy that asked for thousands of dollars and did nothing with the money.
Every action of his was calculated to produce the worst possible outcome for conservatives.

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>>14776030
he was a turk

>>14794260
>he was a turk
Runes are older than Gokturk anon.
You know this. Why are you reposting this again?
Is this tranny dementia?

>>14794062
>Some Romans were in fact blonde.....
If you mean in the romanitas way, yes I do agree.
I highly doubt most actual inhabitants of the city of Rome were (or that the high classes were all that blonde either, Pompey the Gaul not withstanding) , however, this thread is not about that anyway. By the way...
You read...
Like a faggy third worlder...
When doing this shit...
Please stop it...
You retarded boomer...

>>14794277
And by the city of Rome I mean it before it got filled with migrants. Republican rome.

>>14793090
>>14793447
the duality of 4chan.
by both refusing to look into the story, you 2 become equals of eachother in your uninformedness.
Even einstein banged his 1st cousin. your mistakes are like his.

>>14794285
republican rome was thracian, like thor and brad pitt. (unironically dirty blonde)

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>>14794272
>Runes are older than Gokturk anon
nope

>>14794307
While I believe it, you are wrong. Rome was SERBIAN
Ceasar? Serbian
Trajan? SERBIAN
Jesus? serbian.

>>14794277
>You read...
>Like a faggy third worlder...
>When doing this shit...
>Please stop it...
>You retarded boomer...
You sound like a 12 year old autist anon................
Very mature highly intelligent comments................
Great autistic meltdown over formatting...................
>If you mean in the romanitas way, yes I do agree.
>I highly doubt most actual inhabitants of the city of Rome were (or that the high classes were all that blonde either, Pompey the Gaul not withstanding) , however, this thread is not about that anyway. By the way...
Some were blonde in the literal yellow hair way anon.................................................
It isn't that complicated.................................
Northern Italy today has small amounts of red and blonde hair..................................................

>>14794313
>nope
So when you are called out for your bullshit you turn it into a joke?
"Hey guyz I was just kidding lol!!"
Kill yourself anon.

>>14794334
no way faggot

>>14794315
>While I believe it, you are wrong. Rome was SERBIAN
>Ceasar? Serbian
>Trajan? SERBIAN
>Jesus? serbian.
Dude.....some people actually want to learn something.

>>14794330
>Some were blonde in the literal yellow hair way anon.
Reading comprehension faggot..................................................................................................
What are we even fighting about anyway...................................................................................................................................................
I never denied that some blonde Romans existed....................................................................................................................................................................................................

>>14794336
>no way faggot
Get somebody else to kill you then.

>>14794339
Dood...Some of us should go back to plebbit.

>>14794341
nah
if you want me dead you need to do it yourself you limp wristed wanker

>>14794339
>Dude.....some people actually want to learn something.
you come to the wrong place then

>>14794340
>Reading comprehension faggot
>romanitas way
>What are we even fighting about anyway
>romanitas way
>I never denied that some blonde Romans existed
>romanitas way
Seems like you never remember anything you say and then accuse other people of not being able to read.

>>14794349
Not my fault you read my posts wrong.

>>14794345
>Dood...Some of us should go back to plebbit
Dude... You are the first person to mention that place because you live there.
>>14794348
>you come to the wrong place then
Very true sir, very true.
>>14794351
>Not my fault you read my posts wrong.
I love it how you say that but never explain yourself or illuminate others on what you previously said.
You simply accuse people of reading your posts wrong whenever you feel like it lol.

>>14794364
Nah I think you are just retarded and reading my posts wrong.

>>14794376
>Nah I think
That's the problem anon you DON'T think.

>>14794376
you can't expect people to take you seriously when half your sentences are comprised of periods, bitch.
t. the guy these other anons call schizo for simply forming arguments they've never heard before.

>>14793712
>>14793771
obviously seething

>>14787895
>>14788041
>>14788517
Beaker chads primarily used bows and knives for fighting, they were less sophisticated in warfare but likely engaged in more ritual individual combat, engaging in organized warfare only when necessary.
Gauls and Britons were like this well into the Iron Age with Charioteers trying to 1v100 medbug formations.

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>>14787391
I1 are trinketeers and shiny collectors, they are the spergs of Scandinavia.
R1a are the Vikings of Scandinavia and are concentrated in Coastal Norway and Northern Sweden.
R1b are the more domestic warrior caste, the Huskarls, Wolf-warriors, and Berserkers serving wealthy I1 Gentry.
I1 burials are almost always wealthy.
R1a burials are almost viking style burials, like farmer-warriors.
R1b burials are always indicative of men who lived outside normal society, either very wealthy with many weapons but not a ruler or very poor with the tools of an mountaineer or outlaw.

>>14787279
Wasnt it just Spanish HGs who were Aurignacians thrice removed?
They were something like 70% WHG and 30% Magdalenian, The Magdalenians themselves being 45% Aurignacian.
not all WHGs were manlets, some were quite large, but they are generally more common near Eastern Europe rather than Western Europe, but worth noting also Western WHGs have larger bros and broader frames than Eastern ones with Central WHGs from Central Euro being the smaller ones, like Bichon man.

ANE was probably something like an archaic Aurignacian + something like a Gravettian.
ANE and WHG are fairly close together despite being nearly 70k years apart.
They should be as distant as pygmies and abos, but they are generally within the Common West Eurasian cline, forming the two extremes however.

>>14784762
"Giant" is just a word the Norse used to refer to the 'others'.
No one said they were literal large creatures you fucking imbecile, also the norse did describe some "Giants" as actual large beings.

for you to say the "other" in Norse myths were not at least inspired by if not outright a description of, some rival tribe in the primeval fog of Nordic Europe is just complete garbage.

>>14794750
>>14794748
>>14794739
>>14794726
Could you idiots stop attempting to talk about and quote shit you don't understand?

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>>14776030
>>14776056
>>14776063
Have you tried actually reading Norse texts instead of just spewing bs worthy of a nu"pagan" blog?
>>14776579
This.
>>14776833
>Adventuring in disguise is such a core element of his character in the mythological poetry
That's an element of all IE religions, it's not unique to Odin in any way.
Zeus also visits mortals in disguise, sometimes as a beggar, see Baucis and Philemon, and sometimes as an animal. Vishnu rarely shows his true form to mortals, instead using his avatars to influence the world. He disguises as Vamana to trick Mahabali into giving up his conquests.
>>14792577
The Winnili asked for Godan to judge them worthy of victory. Odin being a divine judge is attested among non-Norse Germanic peoples.

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>>14794872
"no"

>>14794901
Odin heckles and confounds everyone like a vietnam vet sitting at a McDicks.
Totally different to Zeus coomers or Poseidon traversing the sea and plains.

>>14794901
>The Winnili asked for Godan to judge them worthy of victory. Odin being a divine judge is attested among non-Norse Germanic peoples.
you forgot to mention
>recorded in the 8th century a LONG time after they were Christianized

>>14776030
bump

>>14793090
>antiwhite haplonigger doesnt know greek mythology
>has a melty when called on it
like clockwork lmfao

>>14795127
And?

>>14794989
That analogy is hilarious

>>14794307
so true

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>>14794339
This is the human father of Jesus Christ.
Juba II.
now go read his story and get hated for noticing the obvious.

>>14794989
>>14796969
He did wander around and coom and cheat on his wife according to the sagas though

Many translators and academics have brought that up over the years, there is a discrepancy between saga Odin and Edda Odin. Saga Odin is way more mysterious, cruel and manipulative like Zeus. Edda Odin is more fatherly.

>>14797006
But he didnt do those things as much as the degenerate Medbug versions.

>>14776030
Well, who drew him in what era?

Faggot.

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>>14797284
Well of course not it would detract from his darkly dark spookyness.

>>14776030
Who gives a shit?
If Viking Norseshit was so powerful, it wouldn't have been beaten.
Truth lasts forever. Lies are easily replaced.

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>>14797859
>who gives a shit
People who like to discuss history and the humanities mostly.

>>14797284
Please don't make comparative mythology a contest. You sound like an ethnically motivated third worlder.

>>14797893
History should be studied in regards to what worked and what didn't.
Not the fantasies of a group of peoples who were crushed.

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>History should be studied in regards to what worked and what didn't. Not the fantasies of a group of peoples who were crushed.

>>14776063
>he just like me fr

>>14797859
>it wouldn't have been beaten.
beaten by what? Icelanders converting to christianity? We should delete all of norse mythology because Icelanders 1,000 years ago decided to start going to church? This board legit makes people lose their fucking minds.

>>14797859
>>boring christfaggot moral posturing
Piss off.

>>14798399
Even there, a lot of them probably remained pagan in private, since there was effectively sweet fucking nothing as far as effective law enforcement goes over something like bans on personal religious beliefs in Europe at the time.

>>14776030
Originally norse had either Tyr or Thor as their chief king of the gods, depending on the tribe/zone.
The rise of popularity of Wotan/Odin was a later developement. In some places Thor was still the chief God and wasnt considered a mere son of Odin. But the most prominent tribes the christians interacted with where pro-Odin, so we mostly knew the mythology from their PoV.
Interestingly enough, Gauls had a similar developement many centuries before. By the time Caesar came and wrote his De Bello Gallico, the most popular God among the gauls was Lugh/Mercury. Their likely influenced the continental germans with their Wotan/Mercury, and eventually this esoteric warrior-poet god spread it's cult in northen scandinavia

>>14797859
vikings were arianists since before roman catholics arrived.
the war on catholics was a war on rome, not christianity.

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This all reminds me the theory that primaries tribes were originally monotheistic then as they became more advanced, they became more polytheistic.
>Greek and Norse in particular: Older and primordial elements rule first, only to be usurped by a younger generation of gods.
>IE in general: Sky Father like Rod is worshipped, but then is put aside in favor of minor gods like Perun that become more influential.
Seems like daemons/elohim tried to repel against loyalist angels of God, failed, and rewrote history that they won against The Most High.

>>14776599
Youre thinking of Thor you fucking midwit. I'm sure youre well read and didn't watch some 10 minute jewtube video 2 years ago.

>>14799221
>>14776599
our week is ordered
Sun, moon, tues, wednes, thurs, fri, satur(/laugr)
for a reason, midwits.

>>14798418
Do you have a sauce for this first bit? Many people say things like this but I've never seen much evidence for it. The explanations that relate to class, such as Thor being mainly a god of freemen and karls make more sense as for some time even among non-Norse Germanic cultures Thor was still revered long after Christianization took hold of their societies. And when you consider how jarls and kings made themselves in pre-Christian times, as well as alleged traditions like the Ulfhednar and Berserkers, Odin being held as the most high among them makes perfect sense (something similar had been said of other Germanic peoples and the rituals of warrior-elite to the Allfather even long after conversion shockingly, the Franks notably come to mind). So it makes sense how Tyr and Freyr lost cosmic function in a sense as north Germanic culture mutated away from older Germanic traditions and became more devoted to Odin, because he was so integral to iron age warrior tradition among seemingly most Germanic peoples.

Now if you were to apply your claim to the whole of Germanic history I would say that you would likely be correct. But since the runes aren't old enough and the symbolism is difficult to decipher we don't know. There are phallic statues which could imply something to Freyr, there is symbolism in rock art that could imply Thor or Tyr. We don't know but it still would make sense just in the broader IE tradition as we understand it.

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>>14794260
No he wasn't. This was fake euhemerism added by snorri to make the revelation of the Aryan Eddas more acceptable to the (((christian))) overseers at the time. Odin is Northern (Nordic) European Aryan Teutonic. And you will not stop the awakening and you will not stop the hailing of Odin sire by the sons OF Odin. The wanderer returns. Eat shit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zduLFhvx0SU

>>14799797
>Do you have a sauce for this first bit?
No, he doesn't, because it's wrong. It's a purely etymological argument. See >>14776790

>>14799797
NTA but there's some precedent in place names. Tyr and Thor's names occur frequently in the names of various settlements and regions across scandinavia and iceland, whereas Odin's name doesn't, most likely because the normal agrarian scandis who worshipped Thor would've seen Odin, a cowardly sorcerer and deceiver, as not being representative of their interests (See Harbarthsljoth). Odin seemingly became more popular around the 800s when the valhalla myth was invented and justified the emerging viking lifestyle.

>>14801072
>whereas Odin's name doesn't
>Tyr['s] name occurs frequently in the names of various settlements
You could have googled this before being wrong y'know.

>>14799872
>Teutonic
>European
>Aryan
teutonics are filthy half Asians half semitic mutts

posting in an absolutely fucking insane thread

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>>14802520
way to kill the thread, tard.
Jesus was a white aramean of berber stock.

>>14776579
why is the apollonian/dionysian distinction meaningless? i thought nietzsche was very apt in using that dichotomy to describe greek tradegy

>>14804093
It's one thing to use it as a post-hoc aesthetic dialectic, it's another to claim it's historically valid. The Greeks didn't see the Olympians and Cthonic gods as intrinsically separate.

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>>14781009
>posting the full thing

>>14776063
>The knowing usurper consumed by dread and fear of their eventual slaying by the worthy.
What? Ragnarok has nothing to do with worthiness, it's the insistence of finitude in all things. Fenrir is a personification of man's rule over the world and nature, it grows beyond your control and destroys you. Your son avenges then avenges you and from the end comes a new beginning. Did you even read the Edda?

Odin is a grim motherfucker because he gave up his eye for wisdom, and sees both the future and the past. He knows the end and he knows everything he must do before he meets it.

>>14803976
>Jesus was a white aramean
Jesus was Jewish...
>>14804403
The complete state of Indo-European "historians".

>>14804912
adopted by a judahite, raised in egypt, questioned judeans on their heritage, preached in galilee, and got killed by jews.
the nuance flies over your head.

>>14805222
According to gospels Matthew and Luke, Jesus was descended from David.

>>14805222
Dude, nothing you said points to him not being Jewish...
It is well established historical and ecclesiastical fact that Jesus was Jewish.

>>14805282
>>14805230
"jewish", judean and judahite are 3 different terms.
jesus was a descendant of david, adopted by judahites and legally judean. but, he was not "jewish".

>>14804912
>crapollonian haplonigger immediately jumps to defending jews
clockwork

>>14805474
Jesus being Jewish is an insult against Christians and Jews...
>>14805417
>"jewish", judean and judahite are 3 different terms.
>jesus was a descendant of david, adopted by judahites and legally judean. but, he was not "jewish".
So he was Jewish lol.

>>14806063
"jews" are the judahites whom are cucked by Saul.
Jesus was the opposition to Saul, which by definition is non-jewish.
when judahites become addicted to self-loathing, they become kikes.
the ones who realized whom jesus was, became christian judahites and reuniters of israel.
modern day israel is a corpse run by jewish kikes, denying their own king despite hoardes of outsiders telling them who their legitimate king is.
its all so comically sadistic.

>>14806187
He was Jewish anon.
STFU and go home.

>>14806492
Cope

>>14806908
>Cope
Used the tranny word "cope".

>>14798954
>Sky Father like Rod is worshipped, but then is put aside in favor of minor gods like Perun that become more influential.
The Rod shit is a complete meme. Rod is barely mentioned in historical documents (and completely absent from folklore) compared to Perun. We can't even be sure he was ever seen as a proper god, and not just some kind of a spirit or an allegoric figure. It was a single Soviet scholar who created the theory about Rod being the supreme god (based in virtually nothing), which later got accepted and popularized by neo-pagans.