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There is no rational argument against incest, and yes, I still believe incest should be illegal, but that's entirely a moral argument, not a rational one
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>>14235337
Incest is bad because it adds more white people to the population
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You're retarded if you don't think rationality is at least part of morality
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>>14235358
incorrect, rationality could easily be split from morality
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>>14235337
i think this takes the cake for the most reddit tier edgelord post ive seen in at least a week. if you want a rational argument into why incest is bad, just look into the history of incest in the royal family.
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>>14235405
Counterpoint: contractives completely defeats the argument against incest, since It would stop incest babies from existing, thus killing the argument against incest
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>>14235413
if you want me to best honest, i didnt think about that. i think you win here but im not happy about it. i hope for your sexual relationship with your mother to prosper?
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> Incestphobia is bigotery
> what two adults in love do in a closed bedroom is none of your business
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>>14235337
I wouldn't say that ancestor/descendant incest is normal. Its anything but shit just like interracial relationship or homosexuality

But sibling incest is literally the most purest form of love. If you know anything about biology and genetics you will know for a fact that siblings are literally made for each other (read assortative mating)
not to mention the fact that heritability of deleterious recessive alleles are super low like 6.25%
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https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+18%3A6-18&version=ESV
QED
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>>14235611
parent/child incest is way hotter
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Incest is wrong if it's between a parent and child because there's a power dynamic involved with having a relationship with someone who raised you

Aside from that, no, incest isn't inherently wrong, just gross
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>>14235337
maybe not with free access to and possibly mandatory abortions but i’d direct you to places like pakistan where incest is extremely common as a rational warning against it otherwise
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>>14235760
from uttar pradesh
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>>14235769
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0109585
the effects are so massive in this one i’m actually looking for rebuttals because it seems like too much intuitively but maybe it’s just true
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>>14235724
what if its part of how they raised you
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>>14235337
Retard, werent the Habsburg enough?
Its way more rational than moral
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>>14235769
give the sample anon
anyone can post stupid tables
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>>14235838
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8240214/
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>>14235342
That's why its good. That being said, my sister is fugly and not my type so no thanks
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>>14235838
oh found it dumb me
seems like they used children's IQ which is not really a good sample, plus I don't really think Rajour is a good place for choosing samples
Plus from what I know IQ is pretty much average of your parent's IQ and its very replicated finding
so the idea that inbreeding somehow reduces IQ is kinda weird to me.
But I think adult sample size and homogenous place would be preferable
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>>14235895
I wonder if you have the ethnic map of Rajour district
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>>14235337
>There is no rational argument against incest

Correct.

>... and yes, I still believe incest should be illegal, but that's entirely a moral argument, not a rational one

WRONG!
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>>14236191
based
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>>14235337
1. Adding relationship drama to family drama is retarded
2. Inbreeding exists
3. People in families will never have healthy relationships like this because of the mess of dynamics, not to mention ~half of the people involved would have been raising people to fuck, which is pure degeneracy
3. It's disgusting.
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Hurting animals for your pleasure (killing for meat) is accepted, therefore, zoophilia should also be accepted
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>>14236733
>Its wrong because hurts my fee fees
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>>14236810
>you are wrong because... Le buzzword!
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>>14236733
What's unhealthy about this relationship:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julien_and_Marguerite_de_Ravalet
or this one:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemisia_II_of_Caria
or for a modern day example:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/yvxenm/i-love-my-sister-876
?
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>>14236773
I accept your concession.
>>14236822
Don't care about your gay examples, there are exceptions to every rule. You have to prove that on a wide societal scale this wouldn't lead to even more neurotical family dynamics than what we already have, while also not closing off a very closed off society.

Plus the degeneracy involved.
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So it's not "never"? I accept your concession
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>>14236901
>N-n-nooo you have to argue semantics with me
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>>14236980
A simple yes or no is fine. You seem to struggle with it, though.
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>>14236882
Have you ever considered that people just don't go out reporting to the police/media who they are fucking RN, so the majority of incest that actually goes on the News are the ones that actually needs to be reported (IE rape) but not necessarily a dominant majority?

So maybe those cases that you called exeptions aren't that exeptional after all? If a start to date my sister tomorrow, I will not make it public to any one but close friends and family, which means that it will be very unlikely that such "news" would appear on a VICE article.

Just think about gays. In the baby boomer generation when it was ilegal, less than 4% of americans were supossedly gay, but now with the zoomers it's almost 20% of people that defines themselves as LGBT. It was something in the water that made people gay now? Most likely no. It was just former prejudices being erradicated which made more people come out of the closet. I believe that if incest was less descriminated, we would see more people at least admiting that they would do their sibling, aunt, cousin if they had the chance.
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>>14235337
Incest is the most disgusting thing ever, bar none. Not even rape is as disgusting. Kill yourself.
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>>14237038
>Have you ever considered that people just don't go out reporting to the police/media who they are fucking RN, so the majority of incest that actually goes on the News are the ones that actually needs to be reported (IE rape) but not necessarily a dominant majority?
This is true. Adding to that, legal prohibitions against incest will always affect consensual relationships more than non-consensual ones, further skewing the ratio in favor of abusive relationships. People who are willing to rape or abuse their family member in spite of rape and molestation being illegal and taboo aren't going to be dissuaded by an incest charge. The ones who are going to be most affected are those that desire constructive lives but aren't able to handle the risk of jail, ostracism, and living in perpetual secrecy. It's why the idea that incest laws exist to prevent abuse is laughable. Nothing more than a modern reinterpretation since the primary reason behind those laws in the West (religious prohibition) doesn't hold up as a justification anymore due to declining religiosity.
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>>14235337
I'm of the opinion that it could be used as a bonding supersize, but not to secure the royal bloodline. Might as well shove your balls in a microwave thinking that you'll have kids with superpowers because of the radiation.
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>>14237062
Homosex is more disgusting.
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>>14237114
>the primary reason behind those laws in the West (religious prohibition) doesn't hold up as a justification anymore due to declining religiosity.
Unless the religion is true, then it doesn't matter how popular it is, that which it declares immoral is objectively immoral.
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>>14235337
In addition to genetic problems, there's also the fact that it's fucking pathetic. Imagine being so unable to get pussy that you resort to getting with your own family members.
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Brothe+sister incest has the highest rate of any incestual pairing in producing defective children, there's a near-50% chance of birth defects.
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>>14237194
It really makes me think how different our world would be if Europe was conquered by Islam back then. I could have my harem of ten bodacious babes right now but NOOOOOOOO!
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>>14237209
Wrong. Parent child and brother-sister are all equally risky on average, as both share 50% of the genome (parents and children always, full siblings sometimes more, sometimes less, but average 50%), assuming no recent inbreeding occurred among their ancestors.
It's also hard to pinpoint the exact risk since it depends on the presence of recessive alleles which vary between individuals and families, but it's definitely not "almost 50%", it's less than that.
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>>14235358
morality is based on peoples feelings
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>>14235611
not true
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>>14235337
bad for gene propagation and rationality is meant to serve gene propagation therefore it is rationally bad
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>>14237425
Didn't think of it that way. Time to take a bulldozer to the local nunnery because those vows of chastity cannot stand.
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>>14235337
We, incexuals, have been opressed for to long. Since the last days of our great kingdom of Kemet, our people had to indure abuses from people who dare to call themselves civilized. They beat us, call us the worst names on the book, they even kill us with not a drop of mercy or remorse on their eyes.

But those dark times will be over soon enough! With calmness and patience, we should wait until our enemies complete their self desctruction and when the time finally comes, our enemies will realize soon enough that they were punching a knife edge! We will march on the streets, kill they, the cis and their allies the fags and claim our rights, which for so long we were deprived of, and broke this disgusting system, skillfully designed against us, once and for all.
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>>14238577
The odds of incest becoming normalized before the end of the century are quite high, IMO. Sadly polygamy will probably come first.
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Legalise cousin marriage, ban sibling marriage. Simple as.
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>>14238929
Cousin marriage is already legal im most of the world. Hell, it was mostly never was banned in the first place.
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>>14235611
6.25% is low compared to popular conception of how common it is, but in any other context it's astonishingly high risk for kids. Unrelated couplings don't have anywhere near that risk factor.
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>>14237062
nope racemixing is
>>14237209
its 6.25%
its not that big as people think it is
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>>14238990
yeah because they have a risk of outbreeding depression
because anything that is further than the 4th cousin can result an outbreeding depression
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>>14237038
>Most likely no. It was just former prejudices being erradicated which made more people come out of the closet.
Or... Institutionalized pressures and herd mentality, which make people want to be in with the times rather than to be labeled as bigots or be cancelled. How many of those in the 20% are actually homosexuals and not any Q+ bullshittery?
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>>14239549
Shouldn't the same be applied to "good" genetical traits tho? like high height, intellect, potency, disease resistance etc.? I'm not biologist so i'd be happy to hear some explanation. Or is being "Pure blooded" just a game meme?
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>>14240849
especially when both parents present these traits
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>>14240849
well yes
that is called genetic purging where the bad genes got purged from the gene pool while the good ones being expressed
and we do have empirical evidence that genetic purging can happen to human
https://www.nature.com/articles/hdy201325.pdf
>The inbreeding load for child survival experienced a pronounced decrease from 3.98±0.87 in the period 1450–1600 to 0.93±0.62 in the period 1600–1800, but temporal changes in the inbreeding depression for infant survival were not detected. Such a reduction of inbreeding depression for child survival in a relatively small number of generations could be caused by elimination of deleterious alleles of a large effect according with predictions from purging models.
> Our findings provide empirical support that human inbreeding depression for some fitness components might be purged by selection within consanguineous populations.
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>>14240849
I would say that inbreeding can increase height, muscle, and other physical features
but I don't know about the intellect because intellect is pretty much average of your parent's intellect
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Older Sister / Younger Brother >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any other relationship
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>>14240909
>intellect is pretty much average of your parent's intellect
if that were the case we would be getting dumber and dumber until we reach complete equilibrium with very small variation
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>>14235611
Be honest, you just want to fuck hour sister.
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>>14235413
>Counterpoint: contractives completely defeats the argument against incest, since It would stop incest babies from existing, thus killing the argument against incest
Counterpoints: "Recreational" sex that is not done for the purpose of reproduction is irrational.
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>>14236822
>What's unhealthy about this relationship:
They are either sterile or they are dysgenic.
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>>14241593
that doesn't happen because of assortative mating
people are more likely to mate with someone who is similar to them in phenotype, intellect, age, and personality
and siblings are closest thing to it
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>>14235611
>Its anything but shit just like interracial relationship or homosexuality

That's the entire point of this debate
Of course incest is obviously bullshit from a traditional viewpoint
But the thing is that we live in a society that allows gay sex, adultery....etc because "consenting adults are free to fuck whoever they want".

This makes the current ban of incest in most Western countries extremely hypocritical
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>>14238990
Risk of birth defects are almost as high when a 40 years old woman gives birth
Yet having sex with 40 years old women isn't forbidden, curious
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>>14241738
>Yet having sex with 40 years old women isn't forbidden, curious
What's "curious" about this exactly?
No one wants to have sex with 40 year old women in the first place, so there doesn't need to be a law against it. It's not complicated you're just retarded.
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>>14237062
You're just brainwashed bruh.
100 years ago, people would be much more disgusted by the idea of gay sex than by the idea of heterosexual incest (though both were badly seen).
But since you've been raised in a gay friendly society, your views are different.
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>>14237038
>If a start to date my sister tomorrow, I will not make it public to any one but close friends and family

You seriously think telling even your family and friends would be a good idea?
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>>14241729
the current society is so fucked up desu
But I think that the reason why incest is not legal is because incest is very reactionary thing
after all inbreeding can and will increase the group favoritism and family wealth tremendously
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>>14241738
Women are mostly sterile by that age and have a low chance of pregnancy. also you can always just abort.
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>>14235724
"power dynamics" is pseudo intellectual reddit bullshit
All relationships have unbalanced "power dynamics".
You always have people with stronger personalities (not necesarrily tied to wealth or social status) that exert some form of dominance over their partner.

Btw, women love having sex with men richer or more powerful than them
Power inbalance doesn't prevent consensual sex anyhow
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>>14241787
>Women are mostly sterile by that age and have a low chance of pregnancy. also you can always just abort
well, you were able to abort anyway. i guess you fell asleep in a coma on June 23 and woke up just now.
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>>14241764
Yeah I think it's the main reason why (((they))) won't try to normalize it
The taboo around incest also helps them promoting race-mixing by conflating monoethnic relationships with the much hated inbreeding
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>>14241751
>No one wants to have sex with 40 year old women in the first place

what if you're a MILF fetishist?
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>>14241787
>also you can always just abort

Yeah no shit faggot
Guess what, this applies to incest sex too
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there was a case from a few years ago where a German had an incestuous relationship with his sister and all their kids were absolutely retarded
one died as a baby too

tl;dr please stop fucking your siblings
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>>14241834
>tl;dr please stop reproducing with your siblings

fixed
most sex in 2022 isn't about breeding
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>>14241834
chances are super fucking low
stop doing pop science you faggot
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>>14241834
>There was a case from a few years ago where a German had an incestuous relationship with his sister and all their kids were absolutely retarded
The sister in question was retarded too. Not in the "she's dumb for thinking having kids with her brother is a good idea" retarded but "confirmed mentally retarded by a medical institution" retarded. The fatal heart problem of the kid that died was very likely due to the nature of the relationship, though.
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>>14241890
>Karolewski is mentally disabled, semi-literate, and was 16 at the time of giving birth to their first child in October 2001.
Those kids might have had marginally better odds had she been knocked up by a non-relative but chances are high they'd be tards too.
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>>14235337
>There is no rational argument against incest-
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>>14235337
>There is no rational argument against incest
right
> incest should be illegal
wrong
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>>14241948
It's only disgusting because she's 80
That's an argument against fucking old women, not against incest
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>>14241611
how is getting pleasure irrational?
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Lol what the fuck have any of you been around anyone or any animal with severe complications from inbreeding/incest?

Watching kittens die two days after they're born from uncontrollable seizures, that shit sucks. It's horrible. Incest is very real and it results in the worst outcome almost every time.

No fantasy, no whatever, maybe just pray a little and talk to someone else.
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>>14235342
Projected like a true sandnigger.
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>>14242016
It honestly takes a special kind of autist to take the time out of your day so you can craft that image.
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>>14235413
Family, the union of husband and wife(wives 1-4), is a unit of society without which society couldn't function. Sex is an action which comes out of this union for the ultimate purpose of procreation. Intercourse outside of marriage breaks the family unit and society crumbles as a result. Due to inherent flaw of offspring production in such a union, marriage between close family members is unlawful and thus is intercourse. but there is no need to explain incest in any way because god told us it is forbidden
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>>14235358
Morality is an inherently irrational system since it's based on subjective axioms. You can derive logical rational conclusions based on those axioms but you can't logically justify those axioms.
Eg.:
Assuming that "human suffering is bad" we can logically derive that:
>human suffering is bad
>torture causes suffering
>thus, torturing humans is bad.
The problem is that you have no way to logically justify that "human suffering is bad". If you attempted to do so, you would need another, previous axiom, and then you would end up with the same problem which would continue to repeat indefinitely.
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and morality doesnt exist kekw
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>>14245063
>look at this single case bro
it all depends on the genetic diversity
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/696831v2.full
>many animals have survived in small populations for thousands of generations without apparent strong negative fitness effects. A suggested explanation for this phenomenon is genetic purging — the increased efficiency of purifying selection at removing partially recessive deleterious alleles in inbred populations (7).
>Mating between related individuals subsequently brings recessive alleles in a homozygous state, exposing them to purifying selection and thus leading to their more efficient removal over time (2).
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>>14235820
Habsburgs were actually getting healthier thanks to inbreeding
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>>14235337
but isnt it more rational than moral?
if a man and his sister loved eachother the moral thing would be to let them love eachother because its what they both want, but the product of incest is a deformed child, which is rationally bad
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>>14243644
Blind hedonism is wrong both morally and rationally thinking
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>>14246722
This argument doesn't work with modern Western society

1. Because birth control is widspread so there is no need to ban non-reproductive incest
2. Because tons of things that have bad consequences for society (divorce, adultery, noramlization of homosexuality and transexuality...etc) have been allowed in the name of personal individual freedom
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>>14246773
>Because some bad things are allowed we should allow every bad thing
no
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>>14246782
If you don't it's hypocrisy
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>>14246809
expland how it is hipocracy
>>
bump
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>>14246722
read the previous posts you stupid faggot
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>>14238577
do you know the sauce of pic rel
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>>14246722
Morals are derived from God and He deemed incest wrong. Even between step-siblings
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>>14248382
racemixing is punishable by death but it is legal
homosexuality is punishable by death but it is legal
cohabitation is punishable by death but it is legal
non-procreational sex is punishable by death but it is legal
fucking your sister is punishable by shame but it is illegal
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>>14235342
And that's a good thing
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>>14246782
But it isn't something bad or wrong. It is a relationship between people bound by blood, heritage, and culture. Definitely superior to forming relationships with strangers you don't really know and would betray you without a second thought
>>
>>14248495
And? Youndo realize there is a separation between church and state right?



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