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Not a major thread, but something I just read that was neat. Ireland's population is the highest it's ever been since the Irish Famine in the 1840s.
>pre famine
Over 8.5m
>start of famine
around 8m
>end of famine
6.5m
>end of 1800s
4.5m

Today, it's just over 7m. Not fully recovered, but getting there.
>>
in retrospect this probably didn't deserve it's own thread, I just thought it was interesting. I'll save everyone some time

>why didn't they fish
>irish aren't real, all english
>something something picts
>*500 primary sources*
>muh troubles
>muh IRA
>muh gommunists
>haha no speak Irish
>black people of white people
>cromwell dindu nuffin
>>
>>13525678
>Ireland's population is the highest it's ever been since the Irish Famine in the 1840s
Unbelievable. Who allowed things to get this bad? Why hasn't anyone intervened?
>>
>>13525683
What a meme people
>>
>>13525778
>>13525785
Yous can fuck right off
>>
>fully recovered

They had so much death from the famine precisely because they were overpopulated at the time due to being Catholic dumbasses who think having 20 kids is a good idea. Basically the same reason India also suffered famines
>>
>>13525847
I’ll fuck off when you stop pretending you’re not English.
>>
>>13525870
No it's not you dribbling idiot it's because the British exported food from the country and strong armed the Irish out of the country.
>>
>>13525678
>Not fully recovered, but getting there.
And they’re all Polish, South Asian, Bantu, Central European and Arab.
Well done!
>>
Sounds like they could use some Somalis and black Carribeans to fix those abysmal growth rates
>>
>>13525879
They already have plenty, Nigerians Poles Kenyans Balts Pajeets and Hindus and Arabs too
>>
>>13525888
Other than Poles, there's more Brits in RoI than the rest you listed combined. Most of Irelands immigrants are from the EU and UK.
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>>13525911
Cope, over 20% of its population in 2006 wasnt even from the British Isles. Most of the immigrant populations have doubled or tripled since that census.
And yeah another couple hundred thousand Brits to boot lmao.
>>
>>13525683
>*500 primary sources*

Well laddie the sources I posted in this thread are highly relevant to the question at hand:

https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/13456834/

Why did you start an Ireland-related thread just 'just to record something neat?' You know it's not how this works here.

>>13525785
>>13525873
The position of the English until the late 19th century was in general that the Irish were a totally separate race congenitally incapable of self-rule. Stop acting like we're LARPers seceding from an older identity when we were never included in that identity in the first place by the people you accuse us of being in denial of being.
>>
>>13525932
Doesn’t matter what anyone considers anyone you are objectively English in a material sense.
Some men also think they’re women, they are not.
>>
>>13525960
If you'd like I could provide you with a whole gamut of quotes from English writers asserting a stark racial difference between the English and the Irish. Are both parties mutually hallucinating to think the Irish and English are separate peoples?

Answer me this: are Native Americans, black Americans, and Jewish Americans, if they are all monoglot English speakers, all undifferentiated in the purity of their Englishness? Is their Englishness of a kind that savours of Kent or of Lancashire?

The logic that says Irish people are really English people in denial because we now speak English ought to mean that Belize, Jamaica, Australia, Canada, the US, the UK and several US Native reservations are the same country, or that Argentina, Mexico and Spain are all one place, and that there are no separate Arab countries.
>>
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why do they keep stealing our cultural figures and folk songs?
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>>13525875
>525875▶
>>>13525678 (OP)
>>13525879
>>13525888
>>13525911
I can't remember having seen an Irish thread in which a British or Anglophile American poster didn't show up to start feverishly typing about black and brown men emigrating to Ireland as has happened in England. Y'all type like you have a hard on. Leave us out of this weird shit.
>>
>>13525683
For real, Why didn't they fish though?
>>
>>13525925
>And yeah another couple hundred thousand Brits to boot lmao.

Most Brits in Ireland are of Irish stock. People who's parents or grandparents were from here and who have come to live in Ireland. The only Anglo Brits we get are retirees who moved to Ireland.

The rest of what you said is projecting. You're probably not an English man anyway so you won't care about the decline of white English people in England.
>>
>>13526011
>are Native Americans, black Americans, and Jewish Americans, if they are all monoglot English speakers, all undifferentiated in the purity of their Englishness? Is their Englishness of a kind that savours of Kent or of Lancashire?
Ultimately yeah, desu, but at least they can say they don’t overlap and overcluster with English people genetically,
You, however, cannot say that.
Cope on.
>>
>>13526252
>Most Brits in Ireland are of Irish stock. People who's parents or grandparents were from here and who have come to live in Ireland. The only Anglo Brits we get are retirees who moved to Ireland.
Source? Lmao?
>>
>>13525870
>Don't have kids
>Serve Klaus Schwab
>Let the blacks, Arabd, and Hispanics have kids instead
>>
>>13526266
Why take from that the Irish are 'English' and not that both are 'Atlantic'? If your point is that the two peoples are genetically identical (I'm not qualified to comment) than why should one ethnic identity be privileged upon the other in determining the category to which both belong? Remember that things could have gone another way. If the Kingdom of Scotland had Gaelicised the parts of Northumbria it absorbed rather than being Anglicised by them it could have been a Gaelicising influence down the whole north of England, and many English people now considered Saxons could have become Gaels.

Are you the terminally angry Glaswegian poster obsessed with Celts being 'raped' by 'superior' Germanics btw?
>>
>>13526270
>One of the sure signs that you're dealing with a malicious or careless narcissist online is their use of LMAO

Jordan Peterson only posted that today.

>Source?
Its common knowledge. Why the fuck would a young English person move here? England is a much better place for young folk than here. It's only retirees or some childless middle management type over here managing a super drug shop or tescos or something.
>>
>>13526323
>quoting jewden peterson
cringe
>>
>>13526331
Not as cringe as you anon.
>>
>>13525932
that wasn't meant as a jab
>why did you start an Ireland thread
Yeah I know I know
I had a brief moment of forgetfulness
>>
>>13526291
>Why take from that the Irish are 'English' and not that both are 'Atlantic'?
Because you all overlap and overcluster with neighboring Germanic-speaking populations.
Really clutching at straws aren’t you.
>>
>>13526082
Because it's funny and triggers you. Scarborough fair was originally a Scottish tune too and the song itself is shitty as fuck and depressing on par with you'll never walk alone.
>>
>>13526291
>Remember that things could have gone another way. If the Kingdom of Scotland had Gaelicised the parts of Northumbria it absorbed rather than being Anglicised by them it could have been a Gaelicising influence down the whole north of England, and many English people now considered Saxons could have become Gaels.
Yes but it didn’t. They could all have also never have become any kind of Indo-European if they had retained the language of EEFs or WHGs.
Why embrace idiotic hypotheticals which never transpired.
>>
>>13526323
>Its common knowledge
Okay so no source, just cope.

>its only retirees
Yeah hundreds of thousands of them. And parents looking to raise kids and English men with Irish gfs
>>
>>13526323
>Why the fuck would a young English person move here?
Why would a young English person of partial Irish descent move there either? Most Irish people born in Ireland leave to work and live in the UK nevermind people born in the UK with a few Irish ancestors.
>>
>>13525874
>>13525870
You’re both wrong. The population primarily declined due to emigration, not death.
>>
>>13526323
>England is a much better place for young folk than here.
I assume you are referring to the whole housing/rent crisis Ireland’s apparently going through. How is it any worse than England in that regard? It’s very difficult to get on the housing market for young people in any place with actual jobs + artificially inflated demand through mass immigration. Jobs here also arguably underpaid in some sectors - wages in London are comparatively less than those of major cities despite being super expensive to live in: https://www.verdict.co.uk/average-salary-in-london-big-cities/. The UK never recovered from the Great Recession really, our wages have been depressed like crazy and we just achieve marginal GDP growth by adding 400,000 people to the economy each year.
>>
>>13526354
>Yeah hundreds of thousands of them

Source
>>
>>13526375
It’s not, he’s just trying to cope and delude himself that all the foreign Brits living in Ireland right now are actually backmigrating Irish people lmao.
Even the majority of them were, that still leaves hundreds of thousands of English people in Ireland in addition to over 20% of its population not even having been born in the British Isles.
New census figures just came in and I guarantee that 20% figure will only have grown significantly.
>>
>>13526402
This is 2016 figures, btw, which represent a doublefold and in some cases triplefold increase in these minorities since 2006.
New census figures just came in for 2022, and I guarantee you they will have all doubled, if not tripled, again.
I await the stats with baited breath
>>
>>13526371
A sustained depopulation policy followed by the British government after the Famine until the War of Independence did bleed Ireland's population consistently via emigration to the point of it halving between 1841 and 1900, but Jack Lane of the Aubane historical society has made a very stimulating and serious case that that famine mortality figures in the 1840s may have greatly surpassed the number of those who emigrated during the Famine and indeed in the decades after.

Jack Lane argues that Ireland's population at the time of the Great Famine was more likely to have been 12 million than 8 million and accordingly many more millions died than is believed. The style of his writing is not particularly attractive (and the typo substituting 'George' for Charles Trevelyan in this transcript is unfortunate) but the arguments appear to me to be very substantial indeed.

Tl,dr: all historians make some cursory acknowledgement that the 1821 and 1841 Irish censuses are probably massive undercounts (in the case of the 1821 census whole chunks of the country were excluded for arbitrary reasons, and both censuses required a mostly illiterate and largely Irish-speaking population which was hostile to the census takers to fill out their forms themselves in English) but use their figures anyway for lack of anything better, and then go on to make arguments using them as though they were perfectly accurate. Three economists and statisticians in the early nineteenth century - William Blacker, César Moreau and Thomas Reid - inferring from local data, independently of each other, made estimates that would have put the Irish population at 12 million in 1845, which agrees with the figures of population growth one would expect from earlier population figures.

https://aubanehistoricalsociety.com/irish-history/famine-or-holocaust/
>>
>>13526371
I read a blog one time by a Dutch man who said the numbers of deaths were greatly exaggerated and what happened was mostly Irish leaving and going to UK. Wish I could find the blog again because it was interesting and I don't know if there's any truth to it because I never did any research into it.

>>13526375
Whats the rental market like there? It's dire here at the moment and I'm thinking of moving to NI or Britain for a bit.
>>
>>13526443
I believe it, where is the proof of the 8 million population figure, there was no census, its just some baseless estimate.
I seriously doubt the population of the island was ever 8 million.
>>
>>13525678
It's fascinating. Ireland has been more or less a post-apocalyptic country for the past century and a half. I wonder what an Ireland with 10 million people will look like, culturally and economically. Hopefully there isn't a housing crisis like in some other Western countries.
>>13525683
>deliberately providing ammo for trolls
well this thread will be interesting
>>13525879
>>13525888
>muh immigration
nobody gives a shit
>>13526443
What is it like living in Ireland today? Is there a good quality of life? Should I immigrate?
>>
>>13526430
That's just over a 100k and includes people born in NI. I'd say barely even 10 percent of that number would be actual Anglos.

>and I guarantee you they will have all doubled, if not tripled, again.
I await the stats with baited breath

I doubt it.

Both our countries had a census this year and it won't be nice seeing the stats for either of us. I'd rather an Irish Ireland and English England and have no foreigners in these islands. Even if it were announced tomorrow that England was 50% white English I would feel bad for you and sympathetic to English people. Taking any satisfaction in it would make me a kike and same to you for finding any satisfaction if it were the same for Ireland. We are living through times where the most diabolical thing ever to happen to the white race is happening.
>>
>>13526443
You're thinking of H. P. H. Nusteling's article 'How Many Irish Potato Famine Deaths?'. His argument is based iirc around the notion that English census before the Famine being an undercount, which if it is true, is almost certainly less true than the argument made Lane, regardless of whether or not you agree with Lane's exact figures.

The Dutch, along with people from the residually Orange parts of Canada and Australia, are the only people outside of the islands of Britain and Ireland which produce weirdos with an autistic hateboner for Ireland. Generally when they wade into Irish historiography it's because they're fighting some sectarian proxy-war relating to the confessional history of the Netherlands, which has been surprisingly acrimonious until recently.
>>
>>13526472
>Is there a good quality of life?
One of the lowest in Western Europe. Their GDP (thus GDP Per Capita) is massively inflated through being a giant tax haven (see Leprechaun Economics).
It has very little economic prospects and high crime and myriad health problems.
Also the people are stupider than bags of rocks.
They have the worst electricity coverage in Western Europe with frequent outages.
Its a shithole.
>>
>>13526479
>That's just over a 100k and includes people born in NI.
No it doesn’t, those are Republic of Ireland figures lol.

>10%
Absolute fucking cope.
>>
>>13526472
>It's fascinating. Ireland has been more or less a post-apocalyptic country for the past century and a half.

I'm too tired to repeat them but I've infodumped a lot in another thread which you can read in the archive: https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/13456834/

>What is it like living in Ireland today? Is there a good quality of life? Should I immigrate?

It has its problems but Irish people tend to overrate the severity of those problems imo. Things aren't much better anywhere else.
>>
>>13526472
Ireland has a housing crisis with 4 million people, they give free houses to every foreigner immigrant and "refugee" while letting their own indigenous leprechauns rot on the street lmfao
>10 million people Ireland
The Irish "people" will have gone extinct just like their language is by now lol, Ireland will just be the nordwest bundesland der europa when it reaches 10 million pople lol
>should I immigrate
Yes, I wish all the worlds PoC and non-christians moved to Ireland to get rid of the green raced Irish lmao
>>
>>13526479
>I'd rather an Irish Ireland
Ireland will never be Irish again. Your language is dead and you were never distinct genetically or descended from different people (same mix of PIE/WHG/EEF as everyone else in northwestern Europe).
Doesn’t matter what you do, your country was destroyed long ago, so swirl away.
Your identity already is Jewish, so its hilarious you through around slurs like kike.
I support mass immigration into Ireland and I hope you have another famine. You are human debris.
>>
>>13526513
>while letting their own indigenous leprechauns rot on the street lmfao
Can you fucking blame them? If I was the Irish government Id want to replace all the Irish as well.
Wouldn’t you?
>>
>>13526455
>Don’t bother, you fenian rat

Don't bother what, black bastard? Fenian rat is something you'll never call to the face of any Irish man you black cunt. I'll go where ever I please and you'll not stop me or say I word to me even if I moved in next door to you.
>>
>>13526485
>anyone taking an analytic look at Irish history and people and failing to disagree with their mindrot narratives with no factual basis in reality is anti-Irish, I tells ya
How Jewish..
What was that about ‘kikes’ earlier?
>>
>>13526553
There are at least three Irish anons here in this thread my friend. Try to pay attention to posting style to tell people apart. I am not the person talking about 'kikes' and 'the white race' even though I'm also very opposed to mass immigration ftr.
>>
>>13526541
>Fenian rat is something you'll never call to the face of any Irish man
I've said it to plenty, podraig. You're all built like 16yo jockeys, you look like emaciated British teenagers and you all have the absolute gayest sounding voices, like Louis Walsh lmao.
You are literally the LEAST INTIMIDATING people to have ever existed, which is why you've been cumrags and breedstock and slaves for absolutely everyone and anyone neighboring you historically.
You are literally basically a Basedjak 'race'. It's remarkable how one people can be so disproportionately beta.
And unlike you, I'm actually white.
>>
>>13526541
>I'll go where ever I please and you'll not stop me
We could literally stop you by tearing up the CTA we have with one another overnight. Then you'd be getting carted off to Rwanda like any other illegal.
>>
>>13526583
Hold on my lad, you've been telling us in various threads that the Irish are genetically identical to the English and have no separate ethnic existence, and yet you imply you think the Irish are racially inclined to beta, and are also 'not white'.

What do they put in the water in Glasgow that produces this kind of behaviour friendo?
>>
>>13526583
>googles 'the Irish Curse'
>it's real
Holy fuck these 'people' just cannot catch a fucking break, can they.
Have they tried to blame their tiny average cocklet sizes on the English yet?
>>
>>13526500
>those are Republic of Ireland figures lol.

I know but people from Northern Ireland are classed as from UK.
>>13526513
Tell me this. Why do we cause you to seethe so much? I've never seen an Irish person that seethe as much toward the UK and wishes evil on them and has as much hate for them as you're displaying towards the Irish. I find it very hard to believe that the little anti Irish gang of faggots here are Brits and not kikes. Actual English people aren't as bad as you fuckers and I've met hundreds over the years and they were all pleasant so you're either a tiny minority of mentally disturbed Brits or most likely kikes.
>>
>>13526603
Yeah, it's tragic what English science reveals about is. Being the only black people with micropenises sure is tough, but on the other hand it's what ya do with it, seeing as we've managed to subvert and corrupt (as many Brit posters here tell us) the US and UK despite having by far the lowest IQ in Europe. Fascinating stuff!
>>
>>13526601
>you've been telling us in various threads that the Irish are genetically identical to the English
They are. That doesn't mean they haven't been sexually selecting for beta genes for millennia.
You're beta English people, but still the exact same mix of PIE/WHG/EEF as them and overclustering and overlapping with them genetically.
Take two large groups of Irish people and put them on an island for 1000 years. At the end of that 1000 years they'll be genetically the same and of the same ancestry, but if one breeds betas and one breeds chads you'll effectively end up with Ireland and Britain.
>>
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>>13526601
>you've been telling us in various threads that the Irish are genetically identical to the English and have no separate ethnic existence
Don't take my word for it, just look at the genetic science lmao
>>
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>>13526619
>Tell me this. Why do we cause you to seethe so much? I've never seen an Irish person that seethe as much toward the UK and wishes evil on them and has as much hate for them as you're displaying towards the Irish. I find it very hard to believe that the little anti Irish gang of faggots here are Brits and not kikes. Actual English people aren't as bad as you fuckers and I've met hundreds over the years and they were all pleasant so you're either a tiny minority of mentally disturbed Brits or most likely kikes.


He's a Scot. Mystery solved.
>>
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>>13526628
>>13526632
>He's a Scot.
They're even more of a 'meme' than you are
>>
>>13526619
>>13526632
>>
>>13526641
>>
That's not the Irish population that's almost 1 million first and second generation arabs, asians and Nigerians and eastern europeans.

There's well over a million in the country now.

T. Irishman
>>
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>>13526647
SO DISTINCT! SO IRISH! WELL AT LEAST WE SPEAK OUR OWN LANG- -ACK!
>>
>>13526518
You are a kike. If not genetically then definitely mentally. Your know better than some Barbara Spector type kike that wants to see a European ethnicity destroyed. You have no reason for your hate if you're an actual Englishman. Either way you should have your throat cut for what you said.
>>
>>13526648
FINALLY, AN HONEST FENIAN!

>Your know better than some Barbara Spector type kike that wants to see a European ethnicity destroyed.
Not Europe, just Ireland.
>>
>>13526658
He's a Scot and quite a typical Orange Weegie. A very sizable proportion of the Scottish population of the west coast has a literally murderous hatred of the Irish.
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>>13526658
>>13526673
This is the cultural milieu he comes from:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17bHzAmHIOs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=592nOlkWywc

The West of Scotland is an almost unimaginably depressing place in parts. There's something very, very wrong with the place.
>>
>>13526658
>You have no reason for your hate if you're an actual Englishman. Either way you should have your throat cut for what you said.
I don't hate you, you're just clearly another tired, boring, cringeworthy ethnoLARP on par with North Macedonians or Bulgarians by this point.
I'm ecstatic about the last shreds of your cryptoidentity finally being extinguished for good.
You contribute nothing to the world and pathologically lie and subvert and pervert everything you come into contact with because you are indoctrinated from birth to believe in a mentally detached, fantasy delusion.
Mass immigration can only improve your situation. It can only remake you into something better than what you currently are which is a bitter, spiteful, self-hateful and delirious swamp of dysgenic cretins.
If anything I pity you. But mass immigration can cure your woes, because those immigrants with actual strong, real, living identities will enforce theirs upon you in the end and hopefully absorb you into something you actually belong to.
It's a shame the English didn't merely absorb you. It would have been a kinder fate. It is beyond twisted to do what they did you you, to make you English and then simply cast you off like a used cumrag and tell you you would never belong.
I am sorry they did this to you. I am sorry you live in the hell you now exist within.
But an end is in sight, and that sight is a large, thicc, jet black Yoruban cock.
Embrace it, your girls certainly already are. ;)
>>
>>13526673
>He's a Scot
I'm not a 'Scot' at all and have already stated they're even more of a meme than you are.
>>
>>13526714
If you're not you certainly sound identical (diction, arguments, beliefs etc.) to a deranged Weegie poster who used to post here. You should be friends.

The way I interpret you saying what you're saying is that even though you are from Glasgow you identify as Germanic and Anglo-Saxon rather than Celtic and therefore shun the term 'Scot' as an ethnic term.
>>
>>13526704
>But an end is in sight, and that sight is a large, thicc, jet black Yoruban cock.
>Embrace it, your girls certainly already are. ;)

And here we have it ladies and gentleman. Scratch a Nordicist and a bbcposter bleeds.
>>
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>>13526673
>A very sizable proportion of the Scottish population of the west coast has a literally murderous hatred of the Irish.
Well, it's like with the Jews right... all those expulsions... all those pogroms. All that rabid antisemitism. What is you're so fond of saying? No smoke without fire, right? I mean... the Irish have been violently resisted and detested just about everywhere they've gone with NINA and Orange Orders and Shankhill Butchers and Irish hatred in the UK and so on and so forth...
I guess your own cretinous ways warrant the treatment which befalls you everywhere you go, eh, much like the Jews you seem to hate so much?
Oh let me guess... it just so happens it's 'different' for your ilk right. You are UNJUSTLY hated. They're just JEALOUS of the Irish and single them out and victimize them despite clearly being with with every other immigrant group that has settled in their lands historically.
Yeah... Antisemitism good. Antihibernianism BAD.
Idiot. Trevalyan once said the Famine was God's punishment for the Irish. His warning for them to change their lecherous ways.
I'm beginning to think he may have been onto something...
>>
>>13526747
I said nothing about Jews in this whole thread you weirdo. There is more than one poster in this thread.
>>
Here are the prem results.

It's almost 200k immigrants. Plus 170 thousand natural births, but those births include non-Irish who have citizenship and popped out babies in the last 6 years.


Ireland is in for real demographic change. That's an extra 200 plus thousand to an already 700-800k immigrant population, plus an undetermined amount of Irish citizens of foreign backgrounds who were born here or arrived in the last 20 years who aren't counted anymore in the close to a million immigrant figure.

Best guess the actual figure 1.5 million immigrants and children of immigrants.
>>
>>13526727
>The way I interpret you saying what you're saying is that even though you are from Glasgow you identify as Germanic and Anglo-Saxon rather than Celtic and therefore shun the term 'Scot' as an ethnic term.
There's no identifying about it. I speak a Germanic language and cluster genetically firmly within a Germanic genetic cluster of Europe.
You all do too, but you choose to 'identify as Celtic' despite not being this in any observable, material, real way.
There's only one group of people playing the trannyethnicity card here, and it's you.
Bandwagon away all you want.
>>
>>13526760
seethe, dead language, dead culture, dead race bye bye irishoids hahahahahaha
>>
>>13526772
B A S E D
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>>13526766
>It's almost 200k immigrants. Plus 170 thousand natural births, but those births include non-Irish who have citizenship and popped out babies in the last 6 years.
HOLY FUCK IT'S EVEN SWEETER THAN I THOUGHT.
That hilarious map of the death of the Irish language over 200 years is soon going to be accurate for 'Irish people' in general.
LMFAO!
BEGORRAH ME MOIRA!
>>
>>13526771
>You all do too, but you choose to 'identify as Celtic' despite not being this in any observable, material, real way.

The Irish were never big into the idea of Celticism because it's logic is actually more unionist than nationalist if you think about it. Celticism implies Celtic solidarity, and four out of the six 'Celtic nations' were contentedly British at the time of Irish independence, and the fifth one was Brittany, which is in France, leaving separatist Ireland on its own. A pan-Celticist at that time would be basically just be a unionist in favour of making Brittany part of the UK. The Irish actually underplayed their affiliated with other Celtic peoples during the independence struggle.

Of all the peoples in this isles it is the English who are most fascinated with Celts as a group. Actual Celtic language speakers tend to squabble amongst themselves over the claims to disputed ancient heritages.
>>
>>13526786
>Actual Celtic language speakers
A couple dozen people over 90?
>>
>>13526772
https://www.ft.com/content/f2d72f42-af5f-4922-8fcb-f50a32f37afc
>>
>>13526786
>The Irish were never big into the idea of Celticism
You just cannot stop fucking lying at every opportunity can you. It seriously warrants psychoanalytic study. This pathological need to lie and twist and warp and dance around the truth and fact with every single word you utter.
Anyway, the point is. I'm neither Scottish, nor Celtic. Just like you're neither Irish, nor Celtic.
You claim to be, I don't. That is the difference between you and me, my friend.
You are engaged in an ethnoLARP. I merely acknowledge I'm English and Germanic.
Do I have ancestors that spoke Celtic languages? Maybe? Possibly? Probably? I also have ancestors who spoke Germanic languages. I also have ancestors who spoke Proto-Indo-European. I also have ancestors who spoke Old European languages.
I have a lot of fucking ancestors from countless different tribes and ethnic groups most of them forever lost to time just like everyone else on the planet.
But anyway the point is, no I'm not Scottish. But I am from the region of the world today erroneously referred to as "Scot"land, yes.
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>>13526771
>There's no identifying about it. I speak a Germanic language and cluster genetically firmly within a Germanic genetic cluster of Europe.

Yeah, but you're still a Weegie, otherwise you wouldn't have had to come up this deranged means of psychologically distancing yourself from the fact that you're a Weegie. Your work it seems to me amounts to a wide zoom-out in which the pain of being Scottish, and the pain of having been born and bred in the most depressing, sinister and downright dismal part of Scotland, vanishes into the distance, into the aerial field. "I am Germanic! I am not a Scot anymore!" There are better ways to cope with being a Weegee pal. If you shed your Orange hatred against the Fenians you'll feel happier and have more mental energy. Autistic hate of the kind for which Scots have a knack is bad for the blood pressure.
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>>13526772
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/26/one-million-people-allowed-live-uk-government-accused-breaking/
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>>13526817
>but you're still a Weegie, otherwise you wouldn't have had to come up this deranged means of psychologically distancing yourself from the fact that you're a Weegie.
I never claimed I wasn't from Glasgow. And what exactly is 'deranged' about the simple facts that I'm stating.
Why does simple truth and common sense come across to you as 'deranged', do you think?
You're on par with the biological men who become enraged and angered and hurt when people simply tell them they're not women.
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>>13526817
>the pain of having been born and bred in the most depressing, sinister and downright dismal part of Scotland
I wouldn't deny Glasgow is arguably one of the worst places to live in Britain, I'm not delusional or living in perennial denial like you clearly are.
It's not that big of a deal to me. I'm not that tribalistic and I don't consider the people of Glasgow to be any more representative of me than anyone from the English-speaking world is.
It's not an important part of my identity. It just happens to be the city I was born in.

>"I am Germanic! I am not a Scot anymore!"
But I am Germanic. It's not some wild claim or pie-in-the-sky fantasy or LARP like you with your Irishness and Celticness.
I actually speak English, a Germanic language. And cluster most closely genetically with other Germanic-speaking populations of Europe.
AS DO YOU.
The city I'm from is also Germanic.
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>>13526766
Well... at least they'll all be speaking Ir-ACK!
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>>13526834
Are you the chap who was saying you're an English teacher or something?
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>>13526834
Your answer (>>13526727) to my post (>>13526673) was evasive as to whether or not you were of Scottish nationality but I pressed and I was confirmed in thinking you were the Weegie poster. It's educational for people here to know why you post the way you do, and that reason is that you are a typical West of Scotland bigot in your prejudices not very different from the Thornlie Boys and the lads in Larkhall who set fire to the grass because it's the colour of the 'Fenians'. >>13526632
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hiberno sapiens are neither white nor people fuck the s o yrish rodents
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>>13526855
>am Germanic!

Shows is your DNA ancestry results. Your not Germanic unless by genes.
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>>13526766
>Best guess the actual figure 1.5 million immigrants and children of immigrants.
I'd say that's pretty conservative desu. But yeah even at the low end estimate of 1.5 million... that's like 30% of the Republic of Ireland's population.
Not even including the vast numbers of 'ethnic Irish' with historical ancestry from the English colonists of the Pale or Norman or Norse or other kinds of ancestry at all (huge percentages).
Jesus...
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>>13526876
theres no such thing as a celtic race or eing genetically celtic all so celts are genetically latin or germanic, seethe about it chud
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>>13526871
Sorry messed up the post tagging there:
*Your answer: >>13526714
*To my post: >>13526673
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>>13526175
We were ruled by the British and they wouldn't give us a fishing liocense
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>>13526879
there literally hasn't been a pure ethnically irish ireland that only speaks irish in over 4000 years, ireland and irishness is a falsehood on the same level as LARPing as cro magnon and neanderthals
>>
Why do Bongoloids get so worked up over Ireland? Is it a reminder to them that their "United" Kingdom is going to balkanize this decade?
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>>13526866
No I'm not an English teacher.

>>13526871
>was evasive as to whether or not you were of Scottish nationality
It wasn't evasive whatsoever, because I'm not. Are you telling me that I actually do belong to some meme identity I don't identify with now?
On what basis? Let's hear this gem. How am I 'Scottish' exactly.
I belong to the 'Scottish nationality' because... I was born in "Scot"land right? Just like Muwambe Malongokongo belongs to the 'Irish nationality' because he was born in Wexford, right?
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>>13526885

>It will hardly come as a surprise that the druids in all cases are depicted as some sort of priest/magician/prophet, and that they are seen as having been held in especially high regard in descriptions of both Gaulish and early Irish society, even though it is clear from the Irish law texts that they had been reduced to mere wizards in the times the texts were actually written. Nonetheless, in the monk’s paintings of the Irish past, the druids feature in a role that is very close to that described for the same class of people in the ancient sources. Similar applies to the bards, described as singers of praise by Strabon, which fulfil precisely the same function in both Irish and Welsh literature as ascribed to them in classical sources. Of course this could, theoretically, have been knowledge imported by educated Christian monks, who knew Caesar and the other classical authors and simply applied what these had written to an Irish and Welsh context. But on the other hand, this does not solve the question why they used indigenous terms rather than loanwords from Latin or Greek, to describe these functions, terms specific enough that they should not have existed had these societies no such social functions, nor does it explain why these monks should have done so in the first place, if, as Celtosceptics have correctly observed (e.g. Collis 1994: 32; James 1999: 43-66), no one living in the British Isles ever self-identified as a Celt before the 17th century AD. If we don’t want to resort to simple ad hoc explanations and believe in an almost incredible coincidence, the best explanation is that these functions existed in both societies in roughly similar form.
Raimund Karl, 'Celtoscepticism, a convenient excuse for ignoring non-archaeological evidence?'. In: E. Sauer (ed.), Breaking down the boundaries: the artificial archaeology – ancient history divide. London und New York: Routledge 2004: 185-99, 188-89.
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>>13526885
How do you know you're Germanic though if you don't kmow your genetic makeup.
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>>13526905
>A lot has been written on Iron Age chariots, and more than once have these vehicles been related to the chariots described in Irish literature, for instance in the arguments of Kenneth H. Jackson(1964), who thought of the earliest Irish tradition as a “Window on the Iron Age” – a position that, in Irish literature Studies, has long been discredited, and a biblical or classical origin of the chariots as described in Irish literature has been proposed (McCone 1990). Raftery (1994: 104-7) has cast doubton the existence of chariots in Iron Age Ireland bearing any similarity to those of the European Iron Age, a position well fitting with the reconstruction of very basic “carts” put forward by the linguist David Greene (1972) based on Irish texts. The existence of such chariots in the Irish early Medieval period has not even remotely been considered. As such, the conclusion arrived at as yet by disciplinary separatism has been that no connection can be drawn between the high-status burials with chariots in Iron Age Europe, and the vehicles described in Irish literature.
Karl 187.
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>>13526876
>Shows is your DNA ancestry results.
I already have >>13526346
Also see >>13526628
>>13526641
>>13526647
>>13526655

I don't think you want to go barking down the 'genetics' path with this one, my friend.
It won't end well for you, believe me.
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>>13526913
>Yet, the term for the two-wheeled, high-status vehicle that was used by Celtic-speaking populations in almost all of Ancient Europe (though it only was put in the graves in some regions), carpentum, also attested in Gaulish as carbanto, is a clear cognate to carpat, the term for the vehicle used in the early Irish sources, with cognates in Welsh and Breton as well, derived from a Celtic *karbænto - (Karl and Stifter 2002). That term is not the only term for vehicles in the Irish texts, the term used consistently throughout the Old Irish literature for the “ordinary” cart or wagon, i.e. the non-high-status transport, OIr. fén, finding a cognate in Gaulish benna. As such, if the Irish never, neither in the Iron Age or at any time later, had any of these high-status vehicles used at least by some of theContinental and British peoples, and if they had another term that they consistently used for non-high-status transports, how come that the term they used in their medieval literature for the high-status transports is a cognate of the one used for the high-status transports in Iron Age Europe and Britain?
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>>13526897
They have census stats coming out in 5 days time so they may be in for some bad news themselves. There's 9 million immigrants in Britain and a million more came in the past year and that doesn't include non natives there for decades already.
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>>13526923
>As I have explained elsewhere in greater detail (Karl and Stifter 2002; Karl forthcoming b), the different uses of chariots in the European Iron Age as they can be reconstructed from archaeological,historical, numismatic and iconographic evidence are as civil and military transports, with the warrior getting off the vehicle to join close combat afoot, for status representation, for sport and as death biers.That these vehicles are open to the front and the rear and that both driver and passenger usually sit on it are two additional characteristic features. An analysis of the Irish evidence, including not only the literature but also the archaeological record, the pseudo-historical annals, the Old Irish law texts and the iconographic record on Irish High Crosses, allows to develop a similar model of attested uses of high-status chariots as they were depicted in early Medieval Ireland. Perhaps surprisingly the two thus developed models are perfect matches, while neither of the proposed “alternative” origins of the chariots in the Irish literature, the Greek epics or the Bible, allow to create models that, even though partially overlapping with the above models, fit as well. As far as the evidence thus allows us to tell,not only are the Iron Age chariots and the chariots described in early Irish literature called by a similar name in the respective local languages, they are also used in very similar ways, by similarly high-status individuals. It thus is likely that the chariots described in the early Irish literature were vehicles closely related to those of the European Iron Age of the same name, still used in a similar fashion, by a group of people of relatively similar social status in Ireland in or at least shortly before the time when the texts were written – even though we have virtually no archaeological evidence for their existence(some wooden pieces from the 7th-10th century AD Lough Faughan Crannog could be chariot parts.
Karl 188.
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>>13526923
>With this connection established it not only becomes possible to explain why the Old Irish used the same word for a very similar vehicle, but we can, by using the Iron Age archaeological record, also gain a better understanding of how the vehicles described in these texts actually looked like and worked, allowing to explain ‘heroic feats’ like jumping across fallen trees, which might actually be possible with a vehicle that has its platform set in a spring suspension (Furger-Gunti 1991; 1993, see also the 2002 Wetwang chariot reconstruction in the British Museum). On the other hand, the Irish texts allow us to gain many more insights in the terminology that might already have been used for Iron Age chariots. Even more, there are quite a number of additional insights on chariot-related aspects of material and immaterial culture that can be gained by comparing Irish textual evidence with archaeological and historical sources for the European Iron Age, like the road network, road construction and upkeep, but also accommodation and sustenance for travellers, even traffic regulations, as I have discussed in greater detail in another study (Karl forthcoming c).
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>>13526932
Nobody is under any illusions about Britain's state. We'll still be speaking our own language by the end of it.
You'll still be speaking ours, fellow mutts.
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>>13526915
I'm not the one claiming to be Germanic without nothing to back it up. So how do you know your Germanic or are you basing it on language or something other than blood?
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>>13526938

>To knock down the “common ancient Celt” may have been valuable from a political point of view, as an attack at modern nationalist self-identities, on identities that have been modelled upon the old idea of one language, one culture, one nation, one people, unchanging in time and with an age-old claim to land, world-domination or whatever else (given the time at which Celtoscepticism emerged in force, it might even have been nothing more than devolution), that have carried the most horrible atrocities in their wake in the past, and might well do so in the future again, and as such, we should to be thankful to the Celtosceptics for trying to educate us and our society about its dangers. But for improving our understanding of societies of central and western Europe between the Iron Age and the Early Medieval period, it is a complete failure.
Karl, 197.
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>>13526943
>nothing to back it up.
Do you not know how to read PCAs or something? Do you not know how to read genetic distance calculators?
How exactly can you reply to the comment you just did and think 'nothing backs up' my 'claim'?
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>>13526897
It's a constant reminder that no matter how good their empire was, it wasn't good enough to manage the tribal monkeys next door
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>>13526902
>It wasn't evasive whatsoever, because I'm not. Are you telling me that I actually do belong to some meme identity I don't identify with now? On what basis? Let's hear this gem. How am I 'Scottish' exactly.

You are Scottish in the sense that the vast majority of mankind would consider you Scottish on the grounds of nationality.
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>>13526943
>So how do you know your Germanic or are you basing it on language or something other than blood?
Well let me put it this way. Irish people all speak a Germanic language. Genetically they all tightly cluster with other Germanic-speaking populations of Europe, particularly English and Scandinavians and Dutchmen.
They don't cluster genetically with people in formerly Celtic parts of Europe. They never clustered with those people.
You have the same ratio of PIE/WHG/EEF ancestry as Proto-Germanic peoples and those descended from them.
Actual continental Celtic peoples had considerably lower PIE inheritance (around 30-40% compared to Ireland's 50%).
So the genetic science is pretty clear on the fact that you descend from the exact same mixture of people to Germanic ones, speak a Germanic language just like them and cluster tightly within a compact Germanic genetic cluster.
How are you not Germanic?
On neither language nor genetic grounds can it be claimed the Irish are 'distinct' from other Germanic-speaking European populations.
So why are you not Germanic?
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>>13526941
Language doesn't matter only blood does. It's the preservation of the people that's more important than the language or even culture.
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>>13526981
Did the Irish become Germanic after having previously been Celtic during the 19th century?
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>>13526980
>the vast majority of mankind would consider you Scottish on the grounds of nationality.
The vast majority of mankind regularly 'mistakes' Irish people for a type of English.
Do you know what a bandwagon fallacy is?
Btw, most people consider me English everywhere I travel and constantly ask if I'm English and fail to understand the situation when I USED to try to tell them I was Scottish when I was a lot younger (I eventually stopped because it was exhausting and tedious and just awkward).
But anyway, like I said, in an objective, material sense I'm not Scottish.
By nationality law I'm actually British. But in an ethnic sense, English, clearly.
But you define Scottishness for me. And I'll tell you if I fit the bill.
Because people seem to have a real hard time, even here in "Scot"land, actually defining what Scottishness is beyond 'speaking English in a range of accents', funnily enough.
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>>13526987
>only blood does.
Okay and your blood is not different to other Germanic-speaking populations of Europe, and neither is your ancestry.
What are you not understanding about this?
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>>13526987
no language no culture no people no race the irish are vile creatures you had 120 years to do your celt larping and revive your shitty language but you were too stupid and lazy so you just continue being english speaking and culturally british and piss and shit your pants in a tantrum when the rest of the world notes your just germanic anglos the ireland of the future will have as little genericaly irish as modern irish people are irish speakers i wish youd stop screeching and crying and whining and trying to drag everyone down to irishs patethic level all your problems are self inflicted
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>>13526993
>having previously been Celtic during the 19th century?
Well why were they previously Celtic, exactly? Genetically they clustered with Germanic-speaking populations even when they spoke a Celtic language.
You just said language is irrelevant, only blood matters. Which is it?
Because today it doesn't matter since you all speak a Germanic language anyway.
But it would be a less clear cut issue if you all still spoke a Celtic language, albeit according to you that wouldn't matter because you clustered genetically with Germanic peoples so... you'd just be Celtic-speaking Germanic peoples.
Bizarrely.
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>>13527003
Scots are people belonging to the historic nation of Scotland and shaped by its ancestry and history. Remember that Scotland was well-respected kingdom in the later middle ages even after English/Scots had mainly replaced Gaelic in the Lowlands (a vague term I know). Nobody in the 15th century would have trouble distinguishing between Scotland and England. Stop judging everything the criteria of purist Wilsonian ethnolonguistic nationalism.
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>>13527010
>no language no culture no people
Literally an Irish saying. A famous quote from a leading early Irish nationalist too. The death of a language is the death of a people, in his very own words.
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Be called your own race for hundreds of years
>REEEEEEEEEEEE NO WE'RE THE SAME WHITE BRITISH AS ENGLISH AND SCOTTISH PEOPLE JUST CALL US WHITES THIS IS DISCRIMINATION RACISM AND GENOCIDE
Be called generic white people
>REEEEEEEEE NOOOOOOO WE'RE OUR OWN UNIQUE SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE RACE TOTALLY UNRELATED TO YOU WHITE BRITS DONT CALL US WHITE!!!!!!!
Why are the Irish like this bros?
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>>13527019
>You just said language is irrelevant, only blood matters. Which is it?

For fuck's sake man, this is the third or fourth time you've referred back to something another poster has said as something 'I' said. Since you have difficulty distinguishing posters from another try to reply to each of them as though they were by totally separate posters.
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>>13526953
How the does this person know for sure he's Germanic though? He'd need to have a DNA test to find out.

All the stuff you're on about just shows the population at large and not an individual and their genetic makeup which may or may not correspond with whatever genetic distance shit you're on about.
>>13526981
I couldn't care less if were Germanic or Celt but saying someone is Germanic on account of language is dumb. It's like saying a London Niggers is Germanic because they speak English. English a Germanic language isn't the historic language of Ireland and only the last 200 years has English become the main language.
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>>13527022
>Scots are people belonging to the historic nation of Scotland and shaped by its ancestry and history.
Okay, well I don't belong to a nation that has not existed for over 300 years.

>Nobody in the 15th century would have trouble distinguishing between Scotland and England.
Yeah, actually, they often did. Between the Lowlands of "Scot"land and northern England. There was a lot of trouble distinguishing them.
There was certainly no trouble distinguishing actual Scotland (Gaelic-speaking parts) from the English-speaking areas of Scotland.
That is for sure.

>the Lowlands (a vague term I know).
It's not vague at all. In fact the term in Gaelic for the Lowlands translates as 'the Place of the Foreigner. And their word for a Lowlander was 'goill' which means stranger/foreigner/alien/outlander and is the same term they used for other English people, Norsemen, Normans and other groups.
They also typically used to just refer to Lowlanders as 'Saxons'.
Funny that, isn't it.
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>>13527034
>Why are the Irish like this bros?
They're human garbage. Mass immigration will only benefit them.
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>>13527036
>For fuck's sake man, this is the third or fourth time you've referred back to something another poster has said as something 'I' said.
Okay, do you disagree with that poster? Do you want to answer the question then.
What is it that matters to you? Language or blood? Because on neither grounds today can the Irish be classed as anything other than Germanic.
If you're asking me... were the Irish Celtic when they spoke Irish... then yes, I would say they were.
But the modern people in Ireland speak English.
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>>13527041
>He'd need to have a DNA test to find out.
I have. It showed my closest modern population is northern Dutch people. Why are you not reading the comments you're replying to?
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>>13527068
You have an extremely strange rpg-esque view of nationality and don't seem to appreciate the visceral relationship between land, history and people which is true of historic nations. If you get out the city you'll understand it better. You're living in a place apart (Glasgow) from the rest of these islands.
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>>13526348
>Because it's funny and triggers you. Scarborough fair was originally a Scottish tune too and the song itself is shitty as fuck and depressing on par with you'll never walk alone.
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>>13527041
>It's like saying a London Niggers is Germanic because they speak English
It's a lot less farfetched than that, for obvious reasons. But you could argue the London nigger is a Germanic person, yes.
Sure, genetically quite divergent from the bulk of the Germanic population (unlike Irish people), but then again... Germanic peoples only came about through genetically divergent people mixing and absorbing and assimilating and integrating in the first place so...
Where does the purityspiralling end.
But these are questions that time will figure out for itself.
These issues with the black person 'becoming Germanic' are not the same as for 'Irish people'.
As we've already established, in a genetic sense Irish people are part of a tight compact Germanic genetic continuum and cluster.
Your point about which language they spoke 200 years ago is irrelevant.
In fact, going by your genetic fixation, the Irish weren't Celtic even when they spoke Irish because they still clustered genetically more closely with Germanic peoples than the people from formerly Celtic parts of Europe.
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>>13527041
>saying someone is Germanic on account of language is dumb.
Considering it's an ethnolinguistic term denoting peoples who spoke Proto-Germanic or languages descended from it... no, no it's not.
That's exactly what the term means.
Germanic people have never been a 'race' in the sense you imagine. They have always been mutts, they always will be mutts and they continue to mutt themselves all the further as they spread out and conquered from Scandinavia.
Of course the same is true for every group of humans on the planet, it's not unique to Germanic peoples.
But trying to make some genetic case for Germanicness is nonsensical.
They were a threeway muttmix split of PIE/WHG/EEF like every other group in Europe.
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>>13526871
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catholic irish families would have like 12 kids each, usually most of these starved to death but due to the potato which grew well in their peat bogs they could feed most of them, populations exploded, then a disease swept through their monocrop helped by the moistness
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Friendly reminder
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>>13527092
>You have an extremely strange rpg-esque view of nationality
You mean RTS and no, I don't, I just understand history and ethnology and how fleeting and vapid identities truly are.
You clearly don't.

>don't seem to appreciate the visceral relationship between land, history and people which is true of historic nations
No, you don't because you have tunnelvision that only extends to some tiny fucking dot in the span of human history.
Your talk of historic nations is hysterical, Ireland wasn't even a nation a mere 1500 years ago. It was a patchwork of Gaelic-speaking peoples who considered each other all different ethnic groups and 'races' (Laigin, Cruithin, Eirann, Milesians etc.) who merely 'shared a language', but only the Milesians were considered 'true Gaels'.
See, people have been purityspiralling since the beginning of time.

>If you get out the city you'll understand it better. You're living in a place apart (Glasgow) from the rest of these islands.
I couldn't give a fuck about 'these islands'. I am not limited by them or the people who dwell in them.
You can bind yourself in your paltry little tomb of false nationalism and false belief all you like and limit your life and sacrifice for a group of people who largely don't give a shit about you and never will.
I won't and will never.
I will continue to thrive and prosper. You will continue to be the complete fucking loser you are desperately trying to coattail the actions of others throughout history in order to rescue a shred of self-worth or self-esteem.
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>>13527124
Holy fuck that's based. Tbh, not an Orangeman myself but I have to give it to the far-right Unionists in western "Scot"land. They are legit kinda like that.
I think, honestly, ironically if it wasn't for the British government they probably would have exterminated the Irish by now, certainly the ones in the UK at least.
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>>13527151
> Beginning with the sixth century chronicle, every Irish history is a history of Ireland—there is not one history of a tribal territory or of any grouping of tribal territories. Every Irish law-book is a book of the laws of Ireland—there are no territorial laws and no provincial laws. The whole literature is pervaded by the notion of one country common to all Irishmen... In Ireland it was impossible to escape the sentiment of country. So an ancient poet figured to himself that the first poem in the Irish language began thus: "I invoke the land of Ireland." Another poet puts this sentiment in the mouth of Columba—

>Here is a grey eye
>that looks back to Ireland
>an eye that never more shall see
>Ireland's men nor her women.

>Now, Columba's "tribal territory" was Tír Conaill. Again, Columba is supposed to say—

>Gaedheal! Gaedheal! beloved name—
>My one joy of memory is to utter it.

>But Columba's clan was the Ui Néill—not the Gaedhil. Shall we be told that national sentiment was an esoteric doctrine of the poets; that in lines like these, they were not appealing to the sense of country which they knew to be in the minds of their audience, but were seeking subtly to indoctrinate with a nationalism peculiar to themselves a public which could only think of tribal chiefs and tribal territories? Well and good. In what other country of that age was there even a small class of the people who held and expressed this definite sentiment of country?
Eoin MacNeill, Phases of Irish History (Dublin 1919), 247-248.
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>>13527142
>>13527146
their diaspora is disgusting brits shouldnt have let a single mick leave ireland a free man they should have used irish as chattel slavery they should have wiped out the irish and leave the island of ireland an unpopulated nature reserve
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>>13527170
>A Leinster poet sings the glories of the Curragh of Kildare and the royal fortress of Ailinn—seat of the Leinster kings; but in the middle of this theme, he says, "Greater than telling at every time hath been God's design for Ireland"; can this expression be paralleled in the literature of any other country in that age? Or let us look at the words with which Gilla Coemáin begins a metrical list of the Irish monarchs:

>High Éire, island of the kings,
>illustrious scene of mighty deeds—

>These are only casual examples that rise to the mind. The plain truth is this—and the writer who denies it does so because he has set out to write a political pamphlet in the guise of history—that, notwithstanding an extensive intercourse with neighbouring and distant peoples, and notwithstanding an extremely decentralised native polity, the Irish people stand singular and eminent in those times, from the fifth century forward, as the possessors of an intense national consciousness.
248.
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>>13527174
I sincerely just wish that instead of English, it had been Germans or Russians neighboring the Irish. Can you imagine how fucking obsolete a blot in human history Irishness would have been if a people with an actual stomach had neighbored them.
They'd either be Germanized/Russianized beyond all recognition or they would have been door-to-door annihilated.
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>tfw William "Fenian slayer" Poole beat up and humiliated John Morrissey, his irish american nemesis in a boxing match so hard that morrisey, instead of accepting the loss and moving on had to cowardly hire two people to shoot poole to death
the "fighting irish" everybody
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>>13527170
>The Laigin, modern spelling Laighin were a Gaelic population group of early Ireland.
>Laigin is a plural noun, indicating an ethnonym rather than a geographic term
>Modern historians suggest, on the basis of Irish traditions and related place names, that the Laigin were a group of invaders from Gaul or Britain, who arrived no later than the 6th century BC, and were later incorporated into the medieval genealogical scheme
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>>13527197
>The Iverni were a people of early Ireland first mentioned in Ptolemy's 2nd century Geography as living in the extreme south-west of the island.
>These Iverni can be identified linguistically with the Érainn a people attested in Munster and elsewhere in the early Middle Ages.
>In early Irish genealogical tracts the Érainn are regarded as an ethnic group, distinct from the Laigin and Cruthin.
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>>13527174
The worst thing about you cunts is that you'll never say such words to an Irish man's face. Never ever will you utter these words to any Irish people because you are cowards and behind all the jingoism and bravado are mouthy cowards and beta little men. You know this and everyone seeing your seethe posts know this too.
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>>13527323
>you'll never say such words to an Irish man's face.
Why do you keep saying this? I've literally seen countless Irish people getting glassed and having their heads kicked in and being punched simply for opening their mouths and speaking in an Irish accent.
I once attended an electrotechnical course where this one Irish guy was relentlessly bullied from beginning to middleway through it when he snapped back at one of the bullies and they cracked him over the head with a wrench and proceeded to kick him in the head and spit on them while he lay motionless on the floor.
Why do you seem to think anyone is scared of Irish people? You're usually really small and skinny and beta, with faggy voices.
What weird fantasy world do you live in where people are somehow 'scared' of Irish people and 'wouldn't dare' insult them to their face when most people surrounding the Irish have basically raped and enslaved and tortured and mercilessly dominated them for centuries.
>>
the world needs a new cromwell
>>
>>13527340
Where'd this happen?if you're the Glasgow anon then I'm not surprised and I know Glasgow is a tough place with tough people. I'm not saying Irish are natural hard men or anything but that the type of seething faggots in this thread are most like beta little men who wouldn't have the balls to say what they here. The Irish lad was on his own too in hostile territory and out numbered so little for you or your fellow scumbags to be gloating over. Also sounds like something that happened when you were teens.

Are you even the same anon I replied to or just chiming in.
I hate how there's no id's or flags on /his/ too so can keep up with who arguing with.
>>
>>13527379
This, seems like the Irish have gotten a little too uppity and need reminding of their place in life. The UN and EU have been protecting them long enough but with things heading the way they are... there won't be many here to protect them before long.
And then... the hatred and pent up rage that has been building towards them for decades now in Britain.
Holy shit, it's going to be a bloodbath
>>
>>13527382
>flags on /his/
that would be the worst possible thing to ever happen to this board
>>
The Irish are a jobber race incapable of intimidating any but the children and elderly they molest maim or murder in cowardly terrorist attacks
>>
>>13527396
HOLY THIS!
>>
>>13527382
>Where'd this happen?
I've seen it happen all throughout the UK. Yes, it's more prevalent in cities like Glasgow and Liverpool.

>The Irish lad was on his own too in hostile territory and out numbered so little for you or your fellow scumbags to be gloating over.
I've also seen it happen in Ireland though. I've literally gone on lads vacations and seen several British guys terrorize entire pubs full of Irish people.
>>
I've come to the conclusion in this thread that the Irish are simply not fit for assimilating or Englishizing.
I have conceded that the only solution is to annihilate them through concentrated mass immigration.
Their weak genes will simply not survive the Bantu-Polish-Baltic-Indo-Aryan-Arabic-Dravidian onslaught they are currently struggling and losing against.
Full steam ahead, boys.
>>
>>13527391
You'll never do nothing and an talking about you yourself you pathetic little fuck. Fantasize all you want but you're nothing but a freak and most Brits would see you as such if they heard you saying what you just posted. All mouth and nothing else.
>>
>>13527439
>most Brits would see you as such if they heard you saying what you just posted.
As would most Irish (especially women) see you for your racist drivel earlier and hatred of 'non-whites' and 'non-Irish' in Ireland.
Most Irish women I know absolutely LOVE foreign guys. And the more foreign they are, the better.
>>
>>13527418
>lads vacations
>vacations
You've never been to Ireland you lying north American faggot.
>>
>You'll never do nothing and an talking about you yourself you pathetic little fuck. Fantasize all you want but you're nothing but a freak and most Brits would see you as such if they heard you saying what you just posted. All mouth and nothing else.

>>lads vacations
>>vacations
>You've never been to Ireland you lying north American faggot.
>>
>>13527418
>British guys terrorize entire pubs full of Irish people.

Something like that would make the news here and be known. Nice fantasy larp though. >>13527453
Haha yeah sure.
>>
>>13527467
>Haha yeah sure.
Jesus, you are so beyond delusional its not even funny by this point.
>>
>>13527470
More fantasy larping. You boys are all a bit mental. I love how we trigger you so much. Every other day yous are here making your seethe threads which shows how much we live in your head rent free.
>>
>>13526619
>Why do we cause you to seethe so much?
Probably got cucked by an Irishman, and all he can do is seethe on 4chan about it kek
>>
The last pitched battle fought between Protestant Scots and Irish Catholics was Benburb in 1646, in which the outnumbered Irish under Eoghan Rua Ó Néill routed the Scottish Covenanters under Robert Monro and killed thousands with minimal casualties.
>>
>>13527581
the irish catholics of 1600 are not the gay married aborted soirish of today
>>
>>13526816
>But I am from the region of the world today erroneously referred to as "Scot"land, yes.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>
still looking for a book written by an irishman that is better than anything shakespeare wrote
>>
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Why didn’t they just fish
>>
>>13526941
>We'll still be speaking our own language by the end of it.
This is especially funny to hear from you now that we know that you're Scottish, meaning your ancestors spoke Celtic languages either Gaelic or Cumbrian before converting to English.
>>
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>>13527699
I don't think you understand the concept of language shift in the Middle Ages.
>>
>>13527699
My ancestors have spoken countless different languages, just like yours and any other human on Earth's has.
Only a tiny fraction of my total ancestry would ever have spoken Celtic languages, and that's the exact same situation for you.
But the point is you don't speak a Celtic language. And just like your ancestor being a doctor doesn't magically make you a doctor, you are not Celtic.
>>
>>13527699
You know the ancestors of both Celtic peoples and Germanic peoples once spoke the same language, Proto-Indo-European, right.
And that was only around 5,000 years ago. Not that much longer ago than Proto-Celtic was spoken. (3,000 years ago).
Is that especially funny to you? Does that make your silly ancestry LARP seem silly to you?
You're on par with Americans by this point really, aren't you, and arguably as mixed as them, if not more so by this point.
>>
>>13527639
Shakespeare sucks ass but still 500 years later no English man has produced anything better so no wonder you bum him up so much.
>>
>>13527639
>still looking for a book written by an irishman
Ironically in English. History will only remember it as English literature and English art.
Nobody looks at Latin or Greek texts and ponders what the writer LARPed as and considered his 'ancestors'.
Irish people are already dead.
>>
>>13527652
Not enough trees, had to rely on animal skin boats that were not that sturdy, English controlled fisheries and you need salt to preserve fish
>>
>>13527756
I doubt the Pakis in the Islamic Republic of Britain will be discussing English language literature 200 years from now.
>>
>>13526981
>Genetically they all tightly cluster with other Germanic-speaking populations of Europe, particularly English and Scandinavians and Dutchmen.
>They don't cluster genetically with people in formerly Celtic parts of Europe. They never clustered with those people.
I will say first of all I have no background in genetics which makes me poorly qualified to talk about this stuff (the same is true for you, presumably), however if I search up maps of European haplogroups in every example I find a clear distinction between nations considered "Celtic" (Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Brittany) which are heavily R1b L21 and the Gemanic countries (England Germany, Scandinavia) which are R1b S21. We can also see the distinction inside the boundaries of England between the east coast which was the most heavily colonised by the Anglo-Saxons and the west and north of the country.

Of course both halpgroups are subsets of R1b so naturally closely related however the distinction does exist. Germanic in genetic terms means being of the R1b-L21 haplogroup. Irish people don't fall within this group at all.


though
>>
>>13526175
Well, the people at the coasts did fish. However, a lot of Irish didn't live near the coasts.

Also, you can't just tie a few sticks together and make a viable fishing boat. It requires skill and it requires materials, and there weren't exactly the resources in the middle of a famine to train all the carpenters and build a huge fishing fleet.
>>
>>13527766
>R1b L21
>R1b S21
They're both subclades of R1b-L151.

>I will say first of all I have no background in genetics which makes me poorly qualified to talk about this stuff
Clearly, and yet you're going to anyway aren't you.

>(the same is true for you, presumably)
You presume wrong

See:
>>13526346
>>13526628
>>13526641
>>13526647
>>13526655

>Of course both halpgroups are subsets of R1b so naturally closely related

>however the distinction does exist.
I don't think you quite understand how subclades work. There are also subclades of L21. There are also subclades of those subclades of L21. There are also subclades of those subclades of those subclades of those subclades of L21.
Are they all different peoples? Are they all different 'races'?

Also even your haplomaps clearly show Lowland Scotland is more matched with England than Ireland, Wales and Highland Scotland.
So what are you even talking about?
>>
>>13527765
>I doubt the Pakis in the Islamic Republic of Britain will be discussing English language literature 200 years from now.
And what will the Pakis in Ireland be discussing?
>>
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>>13527790
>>
>>13527766
>Germanic in genetic terms means being of the R1b-L21 haplogroup. Irish people don't fall within this group at all.
I'm going to assume you mean U106 there, which actually is fairly prevalent in Ireland (especially the Pale, Ulster and some other regions subject to Germanic colonizations historically) although it's considerably lower than it is in England and Scotland, true.
Today of course it's a lot more prevalent in Ireland due to mass migration over the past few decades.
Most of the rest of Ireland belong to the sister clade, L21, which like U106 is a subclade of R1b-L151 which came into existence some 4000 years or so ago in Central Europe, most likely Bohemia.
So shared ancestry. Shared origin. And a very recent one at that.
>>
>>13527801
What's your point? Look who those Raithlin Island peoples cluster with autosomally, see >>13527790
Are you fucking stupid or something? Do you know what autosomal clustering and PCAs even mean?
It's not just taking Y-DNA, I mean there are black Americans with R1b-L21, are they fucking Celtic? Are they fucking Irish?
No of course they aren't because autosomally they're like 90% West African.
That's why we use autosomal clustering, combining both the motherlines and the fatherlines and total DNA profiles and that shows that the already INCREDIBLY SIMILAR Y-DNA of Irish people and English people and Dutch people and Scandinavians... is SHOCK HORROR even more similar when you factor in their near identical mtDNA.
Stop fucking talking about things you know nothing about.
>>
>>13527806
>So shared ancestry. Shared origin. And a very recent one at that.
So then why do you hate us?
>>
>>13527790
>You presume wrong
What is your qualification in this field?
>>
Did they finally fish?
>>
>>13527838
>So then why do you hate us?
I hate you because you're ethnoLARPing as something you aren't. You objectively, materially are not Irish.
Now you can be Irish, it's a very simple process. You can LITERALLY JUST LEARN THE IRISH LANGUAGE and begin speaking it again as your main language.
It won't be the easiest thing in the world. It'll take at least a few years. And it will be harder still maintaining that language as your main tongue and encouraging others to do the same.
But it is achievable.
Until you do that, the Irish people are dead. You can resurrect them any old time.
But until you do, you're just an island full of PIE/WHG/EEF mutts who speak English, exactly like the PIE/WHG/EEF mutts who speak English on the island to your east.
Got that? That's what you are on an objective, observable, material level.
Change that all you like. More power to you.
I hate any and all ethnoLARPers.
>>
>>13527853
There's your (you) ya poof.
>>
>>13527847
>What is your qualification in this field?
I'm quoting experts. I'm citing their studies. I'm relaying their findings and information to you.
My qualifications are none, I merely listen to what they're saying and finding and relay it to people like you who don't even understand archaeogenetics on a basic fundamental level but desperately seek to cherrypick what you want from it for nationalist delusions.
I'm not more qualified than you in this field but I have clearly a far greater understanding of the basics of genetics and am clearly more well read and knowledgeable of it.
>>
>>13527856
Blah blah blah. No one fucking cares.
>>
>>13527872
>No one fucking cares.
Oh I know no-one cares, that much is clear. That's why the ethnic group you LARP as effectively no longer exist. That's why everyone around the world 'mistakes' you for a type of English everywhere you go. That's why people give you puzzled looks when you begin ranting about Celts and Irish and English and blah blah blah.
To the rest of the world you're just a bunch of ugly white retards speaking English in an accent that isn't even that far removed from certain English dialects in England itself (West Country particularly).
>>
Ugh, you know what I'm fucking done. This is as exhausting as it is tedious. It's like trying to tell a bipolar man his television isn't talking to him.
Enjoy your sad, lonely, mentally detached little LARP you worthless, paltry cunts.
Jesus Christ.
>>
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>>13527049
Enjoyable post
>>
>>13527856
Well as it happens I do speak the language fluently so I am an Irishman even by your definition (unless it only includes native speakers). Your post actually reminds me of the words of some Irish nationalists such as Mairtín Ó Cadhain here who advocated on behalf of the language https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q91o5WC5plM
I agree that the loss of the language was a tragedy and support its revival, this compelled me to learn the language. Unfortunately the vast majority of Irish people have no real concern for such matters.
>>
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There are some very deranged people on this board

Actually gives me the fear
>>
>>13527917
>Unfortunately the vast majority of Irish people have no real concern for such matters.
youve been free of us for a hundred years and the irish language is still less spoken than a language like polish
LOL
>>
>>13527917
>Well as it happens I do speak the language fluently so I am an Irishman even by your definition (unless it only includes native speakers)
Speaking it natively would be preferred but I think fluency is close enough, assuming you are fluent to a near native level.

>Your post actually reminds me of the words of some Irish nationalists such as Mairtín Ó Cadhain here who advocated on behalf of the language
So you're aware of their words and yet continue with this imbecility that people don't need to speak Irish to be Irish?

>I agree that the loss of the language was a tragedy and support its revival, this compelled me to learn the language.
How is it a tragedy? It happens all the time. Ethnic groups and entire ethnolinguistic groups have died out all throughout history, absorbed into other groups as their languages died.
It's just a fact of life.

>Unfortunately the vast majority of Irish people have no real concern for such matters.
So they have no real concern for being Irish then. Got it. Clearly they don't anyway, and not just going by the language shifting either, but many other things as well.
>>
>>13527941
retards are addicted to negative attention, just pity them, they're not even human at this point
>>
>How is it a tragedy? It happens all the time. Ethnic groups and entire ethnolinguistic groups have died out all throughout history, absorbed into other groups as their languages died.
First of all because I see a genuine beauty in the language and in the song, culture and stories attached to it which I would hate to see disappear.
Also because I value the diversity of cultures and languages, I think the decline of any language is sad and just because its happened plenty of times doesn't make it less so to me. Most importantly because the Irish language is MY cultural heritage, and the knowledge that my ancestors abandoned this for a foreign language I find to be shameful.
It's just a fact of life.
>>13527945
>So they have no real concern for being Irish then.
Thing is the vast majority of Irish people would not agree with you that being speaking English makes them English. It's not even a consideration for most people, Irish people have always simply taken it for granted that they are and will continue to be Irish no matter what language they speak.

Being English-speaking makes them English according to your definition only because you are using a definition which is not shared by anyone else, because according to the widely accepted standard you are not an Englishman either (as much as you may desire to be one).
>>
>>13527993
>using a definition which is not shared by anyone else,
It’s shared by PLENTY of people, believe me. Try actually interacting with people around the world.
>>
>>13527993
>because according to the widely accepted standard
What widely accepted standard? Who are you even talking about? The widely accepted standard in LARPland?
Go figure, fucking retard.
>>
>>13527993
>language doesn’t matter
>descent doesn’t matter
>genetics don’t matter
Care to tell me what does actually matter then? Care to tell me what actually does make someone ‘Irish’?
>>
>>13527997
>It’s shared by PLENTY of people, believe me. Try actually interacting with people around the world.
Plenty of people where? Sounds to me like you were on holiday in Spain sometime and the locals called you English because they were unaware of the distinction between England and Scotland and to them English speaking = English. But you're mistaking the foreigners lack of knowledge with them being actually opinionated on the matter, the way you are.
>>
>>13528000
>What widely accepted standard?
Being from the region known as England and speaking with an English accent.
>>
>>13527882
I didn't even read that drivel. Couldn't care less what you have to say. I've probably read the same thing from you a few times maybe a year ago and just can't be arsed anymore because you're just repeating the same shit over and over again on this threads. All your saying isn't gonna change anything so you're wasting your time with your arguments.
>>
>>13528029
Okay so being Irish is about being from the region known as Ireland and speaking English within a certain range of accents.
So a subgroup of English people then, like Yorkshiremen or West Countrymen or Geordies.
Thanks for playing.

>they were unaware of the distinction between England and Scotland and to them English speaking = English.
Yes... how wrong of them.

>But you're mistaking the foreigners lack of knowledge with them being actually opinionated on the matter
I've spoken to plenty of foreigners who looked into the matter and concluded that it was still extremely confusing and didn't make much sense and that they still seemed like the same thing calling themselves different names.
Which of course you are.
Most foreigners compare it to very similar situations in their own countries where regional subgroups often try to claim they're an unrelated, distinct people on a bunch of dubious claims and fantasies in order to try and achieve some degree of political separation or funding.

>>13528081
Try not replying next time either.
I don't need to change anything. I'm not attempting to change anything through my statements. I'm merely laying out facts to you and pointing out reality.
I don't expect you to change your mentally ill mindset because your neurosis is so bad by this point that your brain simply could not handle it.
But I will continue pointing out facts and reality in every single thread remotely related to western English people that pops up on this website and all others I frequent.
Because I enjoy it. It's easy, lowhanging fruit. You're too easy to intellectually castrate and humiliate over and over and over again. You walk into the same fucking traps every single goddamn time.
It's not because I'm some master manipulator and wordwizard, it's simply because the position you take is so indefensible that it's IMPOSSIBLE to logically argue in support of it.
It's like trying to argue that the Earth is flat.
>>
>>13526331
It's juden peterstein you worthless lmaoposter
>>
>>13528119
You will never be English.
>>
>>13525678
Where are you getting this info that the population of Ireland is 7 million? Ireland has a population of 5.1 million as of 2022 according to their recent census.
>>
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https://youtu.be/ifKZKvEUM48?t=1430
On the streets of Ulster, the battle rages on
British people fighting for their land
Fought in two world wars for us, fought and died for Britain
Gotta help them, support the Red Hand
Smash! Smash! The IRA!
Smash! Smash! The IRA!
Smash! Smash! The IRA!
Remember the victims of their bombs
Gotta change our policies and hang the IRA
Let the Army deal with them their way
Corrupt politicians and sniveling left-wing scum
Are quite content to let them get away
Come on Ulster!
Smash! Smash! The IRA!
Smash! Smash! The IRA!
Smash! Smash! The IRA!
Remember the victims of their bombs
Smash! Smash! The IRA!
Smash! Smash! The IRA!
Smash! Smash! The IRA!
Remember the victims of their bombs
IRA supporters are marching on our streets
Are we gonna let them spread their lies?
Are we gonna let them march or are we gonna smash them?
Laughing while the British people die
Come on Ulster!
Smash! Smash! The IRA!
Smash! Smash! The IRA!
Smash! Smash! The IRA!
Remember the victims of their bombs
>>
>>13528211
Counting Northern Ireland
>>
>>13527576
>Turkey
>Kenya
lolwut, is this real or some kara boga edit?
>>
Go on home British soldiers, go on home
Have you got no fucking homes of your own
For 800 years we've fought you without fear
And we'll fight you for 800 more

If you stay British soldiers, if you stay
You'll never ever beat the IRA
For the 14 men in Derry
Are the last that you will bury
So take a tip, and leave us bloody be

So go on home British Soldiers, go on home
Have you got no fucking homes of your own
For 800 years we've fought you without fear
And we will fight you for 800 more

We're not British, we're not Saxon, we're not English
We're Irish and proud we are to be
So fuck your Union Jack, we want our country back
We want to see old Ireland free once more

So go on home British soldiers, go on home
Have you got no fucking homes of your own
For 800 years we've fought you without fear
And we will fight you for 800 more
>>
What with all the Irish hate? Give me an honest reason and not some bullshit excuse.
>>
>>13528263
cringe
>>13528359
they steal our culture
>>
>>13525678
its highest because we are importing so much foreigners
>>
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What the actual fuck is going on inside of this thread?
>>
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>Ireland thread gets derailed into autistic shitflinging again
In a bit of bother, lads?
>>
>>13525870
>Ireland was continously exporting huge quantities of food during the famine
>it was le overpopulated though!
>>
>>13528609
I feel for you irishbro, the IRA needs to stop being such cuck fags and fight back against invaders and not be gay leftoids
>>
>>13528211
This is the whole island, not just the Republic.
>>13528220
>seething skinhead still LARPing about fighting
>>
>>13529456
Scots. The insane anti-Irish poster is a Scotsman from Glasgow and a product of West of Scotland Orange culture. Despite what you might think from browisng this board, Irish and English people are both very chill irl and don't hate each other and get on quite well despite sore past history. The Scots on the other hand, particularly on the West coast, often have a cold and seething hatred of both the Irish and the English which could genuinely lead to mass ethnic violence if left unchecked. The Scottish politician George Galloway, the son of a Scottish Protestant father and Irish Catholic mother, is opposed to Scottish independence because he believes it could result in ethnic cleansing of Scotland's Irish Catholic minority.

See:
>>13526632
>>13526673
>>13526700
>>13526644
>>13526817
>>13526871
>>13527124
>>
>>13526082
I'm Irish and I'm looking forward to this faggot getting replaced by Harriet Tubman on the $20 bill. Get fucked dead hillbilly.
>>
The British killed 30 million Irish. Worse than the Holocaust
>>
>>13530025
Falseflag strawman. No Irish person has ever claimed anything like this,
>>
>>13529935
What is the source of this hatred though? Religious bigotry? Typical nativist hostility towards an immigrant minority? Or more?
>>
The Irish on /his/ have kinda played themselves.
By posting their weekly walls of text they have exposed themselves for historical seethers on the tier of Wehraboos or Rhodesiaphiles.

At this point Irish history threads are easy targets for trolls, as the Irish /his/torian cannot help himself, he must respond to even the most obvious bait.
>>
>>13530041
A mix of nativist hostility and religious bigotry aggravated by the legacy of the ethnoreligious wars of the 17th century. As well as that, a sense of envy and resentment driven by the fact that Scotland's self-image as a brave rebellious country standing up against a much larger foe is infinitely less true of itself than it is of Ireland. The Scots haven't fought hard for their sovereignty since the mid-17th century at the latest, with later Jacobite rebellions being essentially Scottish civil wars.
>>
>>13530061
You may have a point in that we shouldn't bother responding seriously to bait but the bait is going to be there regardless of whether we reply to it or not. It's been there for years, and if we didn't reply to it the erroneous statements would pass unchallenged. Before Irish posters started posting hard and relentlessly about the facts of British historical oppression of Ireland on /his/ in response to bait, British posters complacently maintained that Ireland was never really oppressed and the idea that it was was delusional seethingg. After getting comprehensively BTFO on this topic, Bong posters no longer deny this historic oppression and have moved on to other points on which to attack the Irish.

A surprising number of people base their knowledge of history on what they read on boards like this. When they see someone trolling about some issue they might reasonably assume the troll is rubbing in a sore point, even if a distorted one. For example, if a troll says "Latvians were raped by Turks for centuries because they're inherently weak" someone browsing the thread might assume "hmm, there probably historical reasons the Latvians couldn't resist the Turks, he's taking it a bit too far" and by doing this the troll will have convinced the uninformed third-party browsing the thread that Latvia was under Turkish domination in the first place. That's why it's not necessarily a waste of time to refute trolls.
>>
>>13530061
>he doesn't make deliberately dumb threads asking basic questions about things he's sincerely interested in so Irish effortposters spoonfeed him great sources and information
ngmi
>>
>>13526747
If you're so proud of Anglo culture and achievements then, please, stop abusing their language with a borderline criminal overuse of ellipses.
>>
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>>13525925
>British Isles
>>
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>>13526414
>British Isles
>>
>>13530766
The term 'British Isles' does have an ancient pre-political use, so I'm not entirely opposed to it, only opposed to its politicised use. My preferred compromise would be to revive the original Greek rendering of 'Pretanic Isles' (αἱ Πρετανικαι νησοι). It's ancient, classical and doesn't presume the hegemony of the British state. Britain as we know it has been shaped by the hegemony of the Germanic Anglo-Saxons and Germano-Latin Normans whereas Britain itself is named after the Celtic Πρεττανοι.
>>
>>13526855
Move to Cornwall a d say you're English and watch as they laugh at you in disdain. You are pathetic.
>>
>>13527340
>>13527418
So are you proud of being a Weegie or not? You hate Glasgow for being a heroin-addiction and obesity-ridden hellhole (which is fair enough, I don't blame you) and yet you identify extremely proudly with an ugly and crass Glaswegian culture of sectarianism. You identify with a 'wider Germanic identity' to escape beyond the provincial misery of Glasgow and yet the reek of Glasgow's local hatreds sweats from every pore of your body. Actual English people find West of Scotland bigotry incomprehensible and contemptible.

>>13527467
It's possible, in the North. Scottish Loyalists sometimes go on on a weird kind of tourism in NI based on harassing the locals. They'd have to pick the pub very carefully in advance to avoid getting their heads kicked in, but sectarian Jocks are nothing if not cowards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6hEZ9zm6ck
>>
>>13529882
>>seething skinhead still LARPing about fighting
cope
skrewdriver is based and ian stuart lives in our memories forever
>>
>>13530061
We Irish communicate through the anglosphere, like much of the world. When it is dominated by Brits and clueless yanks, it is important to fill the gap, and correct past assumptions (which have come common 'knowledge' at this point) made and spread by the people who actively despised and surpressed the other culture. The fact that people still use and even argue for the continued usage of the colonial term 'British isles' is testament to this fact. The brits wrote the history, they wrote the maps, they controlled the narrative. Anti Irish was a part of this narrative.
>>
>>13531045
>When it is dominated by Brits and clueless yanks
yeah like irish american paddies who claim our figures as their own
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>>13530795
British Isles, the term used today, was invented in the 1500s by a colonialist map maker. The fella who made the term 'British empire'. It never existed in the lexicon before that, and is a resurrected Greek term with colonial clothing thrown on it. I'm sure you know these things based on the knowledge you've displayed, so given these points, and the fact the modern Irish state throughly rejects the term for the same reasons, why do you support even the archaic label?

The islands did fine with seperate names for over a millenia after collapse of roman administration, and they were well known as being 'different places' throughout the continent through trade, missionaries and whatnot. So why is the grouping even needed?
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>>13531145
I'm not personally in favour of the term, I just think its usage is defensible on historical grounds, even though I dislike their implications. That's why I think Pretanic Isles is a better rendering. The Pretani in question may have come to Britain from Ireland incidentally.
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>>13531036
Skin heads are extreme homosexuals and gay boot and leather fetish clubs. I remember seeing it on a TV show called A-Z of Britain on Bravo channel years ago. No wonder you're fucked up.
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>>13531176
I still feel the grouping unnecessary, and only really needed in very few cases, in which a myriad of other names can be used. Then, the domination and implication of ownership by using 'british' in the term goes beyond pardon for common usage in a colonised island nation. I feel it is too powerfully colonial to be of benefit to the world.

The historicity of the term then I think isn't a powerful enough link, considering the propagandist origins of the modern term, and the complete non usage of the very different Greek term before that. That is my opinion.
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>>13531220
Ulster Loyalism (which overlaps a lot with British skinhead culture) is also notoriously massively gay and featured a large number of pederasts among its more notable members.
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>>13531227
I understand and agree. Just because it's historically defensible doesn't mean it's ideal or necessary. My own preferred term would be 'Atlantic Isles'.
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>>13531231
My own preferred term would be 'Greater England'.
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>>13531220
>>13531228
Skinheads and Scottish Loyalists share in common the 'fat bald lowlife' phenotyp'. See: >>13526700 >>13526871 >>13528220.
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>>13531257
Well we might as well skip a few years and call the islands greater Bangladesh then?
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>>13531281
>You have le different races in your country!!!!!
So what Paddy? We're not all inbred village idiots like the Irish the British isles will always be English speaking and there's nothing you can do to stop that, the entirety of humanity will be monolingual in English before the Irish speak Irish hahahahaha
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>>13531281
and the capital shall be on the former site of dublin, in honor of ireland's early respect for the indian peoples, as evidenced by their indian prime minister
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>>13530061
>posting their weekly walls of text they have exposed themselves for historical seethers on the tier of Wehraboos or Rhodesiaphiles.

>At this point Irish history threads are easy targets for trolls,

Its starts a trolling but then turns interesting when based Irish /his/ anon posts the greentexts. The tables get turned on the trolls. >>13528220
What a fucking shit song. Pure cringe. I hope the man in that photo is dead.
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>>13531343
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>>13530061
This, I wouldn't be surprised if half the "trolling" is just them posting to give themselves an excuse to dump walls of greentext
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>>13531357
Irish incel
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>>13531363
>Your country is getting fucked by niggers and pajeets
>No, YOUR country is getting fucked by niggers and pajeets
Why are euros like this?
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>>13531365
The posters who make anti-Irish bait threads also post on /pol/ and /int/ and they have UK and US flags.
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>>13531370
The Irish aren't white, the Irish aren't European, the Irish aren't people, KYS Paddy O'potatohead
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>>13531365
Nah it's definitely trolling. Recognize the anons behind it. One trys to start of pretending it's a serious thread but can't contain himself and two or three posts in the mask slips and the seethe posts start. Only a Scot could be so obsessed with the Irish too. The sleeked porridge wogs they larp as English then so Irish people start saying shit about England and to get us arguing. English people they despise too but will act all pally when it comes to trying to stir English up against Irish. They even larp as Ulster prods too but even they aren't as bad as the anti Irish porridge wogs.
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>>13531370
It annoys me too. In the Irish case it's mostly just reacting to the Bong posters who in every single thread mention the fact that Ireland has a mass immigration policy in common with the rest of western Europe and gloat vindictively over it as though it were something particularly and uniquely contemptible to the Irish. See this sperg: >>13526513 >>13526518 >>13526533.

I've never seen an Ireland-related thread in which British posters didn't make ecstatically gleeful posts about the fact that Ireland has a mass immigration problem, like the UK. The thought seems to be absolutely orgiastic to them. It seems to bring them deep happiness.
>>
>>13531396
>They even larp as Ulster prods too but even they aren't as bad as the anti Irish porridge wogs.

This is true. Ulster Scots for all their faults are at the end of the day a far more humane and decent people than their kin on the west coast of Scotland.
>>
Thought I was Irish until recently
>Learn Gaelic, decipher family name
>"Son of Viking"
>Panic
>Yhaplogroup test
>I1
I don't know how to cope with this information, what does this mean??
>>
>There are few European nations in which intellectuals are so willing to serve as soft-peddalling merchants of ‘national character’, handmaidens to the tourist industry: broadcasters, academics, lawyers, some of the poets too, sell pride and tears, spiritual laxity and pawky good humour in place of inquiry... Ascherson mentions Scotland’s ‘grim and persisting record of religious intolerance and discrimination’. He was able to say this without having the benefit of the Scottish Executive’s most recent survey, which led to a leader in the Guardian this month, declaring that the Scots were possibly the most racist group in Europe. There was a dogged public assumption that racial prejudice was an English problem to which the Scots – for reasons of social history, for reasons of superior native intelligence – were immune ... But this was a prettified version of history... But the central flaw in this self-congratulatory myth, the grand denial of the blatantly obvious, was the matter of the Irish. With some verve, and some nerve, Ascherson tells a story of his own prejudice, of how he thought his young sister might have caught impetigo swinging on the gates of a Catholic school. But there are no jokes in Ascherson’s book. ‘Here was I,’ he writes, ‘a much-travelled journalist with left-wing opinions and a Cambridge history degree. And, nevertheless, for almost all my life I had never questioned that if you touched a railing used by small boys of a particular religion you would probably acquire a disfiguring disease.’
Andrew O’Hagan, 'Beast of a Nation: Scotland's Self-Pity'', London Review of Books, Vol. 24 No. 21, 31 October 2002.

I despise O'Hagan but his having grown up in the West of Scotland as an Irish Catholic is almost enough to make me forgive him for being a bitter globalist shill.
>>
>>13531419
I know many in my area and they're decent folk. Funnily enough I know a good few ethnic Irish people from Scotland who are the children of or grandchildren of Irish emigrants there who've moved here and they've been tainted by Scotland and growing up there and wouldn't be the best sort of people to say the least. Glasgow is rough as fuck and working class Scots and their culture is disgusting. Definitely the roughest and worst big city in these isles.
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>>13531467
>thought I was Irish
You're American, aren't you?
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>>13531467
If you're American you were neither Irish nor Viking to begin with, unless you roots in the old country are recent enough to be meaningfully in touch with them. If you're Irish (very unlikely in light of the fact that you called Irish 'Gaelic' and said you had to learn it even though it's a school subject to decipher an etymology you could have gotten from google) than nothing has changed. Tolkien never stopped being English because he had a German surname.
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>>13531488
No?
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>>13531495
>Tolkien never stopped being English because he had a German surname.
Tolkien spoke English though. How is someone who can't speak Irish and doesn't even descend from Irish people historically Irish in any way, shape or form?
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>>13531495
Because family names aren't translated from modern languages dummy, it's meaning stems from Old Gaelic
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>>13531513
Or did your private school teach old Gaelic as a core subject you prissy nerd
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>>13531495
>If you're American you were neither Irish
How are 'Irish-Americans' any less Irish than Irish people from Ireland by this point? You both only speak English now, you're both LARPing as historical Irish people out of ancestry (real or imagined).
Seriously. You try to mock Americans and their ancestry LARP but the entire modern Irish identity is exactly that.
Without your supposed distinct and unrelated ancestry, you're just a type of English.
>>
>>13531467>>13531467
Is your surname McLaughlin? Whats L1 is that viking DNA? I have an ancient Gaelic surname and my ancestors have been wrote about and lots of info on them plus a family pedigree.
I'd probably kill myself if I had any Nordic or Germanic DNA.
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>>13531513
I think it's highly unlikely you went to the trouble of learning a language whose name you didn't even get right ('Old Irish' is the standard form among linguists and philologists, not 'Old Gaelic') to decipher the etymology of your surname when you could have just googled it. Is it McLaughlin (Mac Lochlainn) by any chance?
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>>13531523
Irish Americans are more Irish than the island of Ireland, ditto for all other irish diaspora in canada australia new zealand latin america brazil africa, france russia, spain, italy asia, etc.
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>>13531525
>Whats L1 is that viking DNA
I1 (i), you fucking retard. And yes, all I1 in Ireland was brought by Norsemen or later Germanic groups who settled.

>I'd probably kill myself if I had any Nordic or Germanic DNA.
You know Gaels descended from the exact same Bronze Age population bloc as Nordic and Germanic peoples, right?
Have you ever even taken a look at a European PCA?
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>>13531525
Not McLaughlin no, but i1 is a scandanavian Y-chromosome haplogroup
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>>13531534
>Irish Americans are more Irish than the island of Ireland
American detected, opinion discarded.
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>>13531532
Gaelic is actually a more accurate name for the language as it's what its actual speakers historically called it and themselves (Gaels).
Irish is an exonym from the language of the foreigners which you all speak today.
>>
>>13531538
>American detected, opinion discarded.
How is he actually wrong though. Are you denying almost everyone in Ireland today can only speak English? Are you denying significant percentages of Ireland's population don't descend from Gaels?
How is the 'Irish-American' any less Irish than someone in Ireland then?
You were the ones that effectively reduced Irishness to 'calling yourself Irish' in a desperate bid to preserve a clearly dying identity.
You made your bed, now lie in it.
But seriously try actually answering my questions.
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>>13531532
On the subject of a quick Google search, you'd quickly learn that old Gaelic is indeed an acceptable term you troglodyte. I should've specified I'm obviously not fluent, nor did I learn it for the sole reason of translating a name. I learned it namely due to the fact it's fucking cool. Also no, it's not McLaughlin
>>
>>13531523
>>13531534
It's only possible to say this if you come from a country like America in which people no longer have any organic connection to land, place and history. The American population is hypermobile (it amazes me to hear about how casually families move hundreds of miles away because dad gets a new job) and very weakly tied to the soil, with the exception of certain peoples, like the blacks in the Deep South who never migrated north and stayed on the land, or in the parts of Virginia in which the majority of the population consists of descendants of 17th and 18th English settlers. Ireland is an island and all islands are nations unto themselves for reasons of psychogeographic inevitability.
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>>13531550
>organic connection to land, place and history.
So Irishness is just a geographic identity now.
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>>13531558
Always has been.
>>
Now this thread is about paddies realizing they’re just funny sounding English and Danes. kek.
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>>13531539
The word for the language is 'Gaeilge' in Irish itself but Irish speakers have almost always preferred to call it Irish when speaking English or as the Hibernian language when writing Latin. The insistence has to do with the need to assert that it is the national language of Ireland in particular and not a generalised common language of Ireland, Scotland and the Isle of Man. Calling it 'Gaelic' would have been seen as making a concession to uppity Scots.
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>>13531550
>Ireland is an island and all islands are nations unto themselves for reasons of psychogeographic inevitability.
That's a really pitifully cringe way of acknowledging you have no argument, can't refute the points these anons are making and the Irish identity is actually really weak and full of hypocrisies and is incredibly vapid in its modern form.
I seriously cannot see your identity surviving another several generations by this point.
Sad stuff.
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>>13531538
Holy shit how is your historical frame of reference so narrow? If we discard all historical precedent after 1-3 generations then any historical justification for anything herein is completely null and void. An Irish American today who's ancestors immigrated to America during the potato famine experienced it just as much as someone born in Ireland today. That is to say, not at all, but they each have an equal claim to the historical context. When did we start completely disregarding historical precedent? This is a recent thing and I don't understand why.
>Inb4 you're an American
No, I'm not
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>>13531564
HAHAHAHAHAHA
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>>13531569
>The word for the language is 'Gaeilge' in Irish itself
And where do you think the word 'Gaelic' comes from, champ? See if you spent a little less time engaging in pedantic pointscoring exercises and more time actually reading about the people you're trying to LARP as, you'd embarrass yourself a lot less.
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>>13531564
>Always has been.
Okay. Thanks for establishing that Irishness is not an ethnic identity. And apparently 'never has been'. It's merely a geographic term for people who live on a particular island.
Well done.
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>>13531578
So she's an English speaker on the island of Ireland that is literally what every Irish person is, seethe about it nativist
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>>13531569
>The insistence has to do with the need to assert that it is the national language of Ireland
The language that 2% of its population can actually hold a 5 minute conversation in, yeah? That's your 'national language'.
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>>13531564
I might be American, but you're certainly Jewish
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>>13531588
She's also more attractive than 99.9% of Irish women. So yes I welcome her as the 'New Irish'.
New and improved! ;)
>>
What is honestly wrong with Irish people. Why are they like this?
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>>13531606
Whatever gets rid of the green race of leprechauns polluting the british isles faster is only a good thing.
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>>13531569
>and not a generalised common language of Ireland, Scotland and the Isle of Man
Oh, you mean like how the actual historical Gaels saw themselves and their sprachraum, yeah?
Yeah, how terrible that would be.
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>>13531558
Its blood, soil and heritage.
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>>13531580
The word 'Gaelic' came into use in English in the 18th century, whereas the word 'Irish' had been in use for many centuries earlier. 'Erse' and 'Irish' were even used in the early modern period to describe Scottish Gaelic.

You are the epitome of an American telling other people about their countries.
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>>13531620
>blood
Whose blood?

>heritage.
Which heritage?

You just claimed Irish-Americans have nothing to do with Ireland and aren't Irish.
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>>13531622
>The word 'Gaelic' came into use in English in the 18th century, whereas the word 'Irish' had been in use for many centuries earlier.
Yes, English is not Gaelic though is it. So why would an exonym in their language take precedence over what the actual Gaels called themselves and their tongue.
See if you could actually speak the language of the people you're trying to LARP as you might understand their mindset and values and worldview a bit better instead of trying to project your own one onto them.

>You are the epitome of an American telling other people about their countries.
I'm not American, but you're clearly neurotic.
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>>13531586
>Always has been

You're replying to your own post, crafty cunt.
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>>13531570
I've read hundreds of accounts from travellers and other commentators on the Irish Question in the 19th century and none of them regardless of their views on the matter regarded Irish nationality as hinging on language. Most travelled mostly among English speakers and had zero doubt that the Irish were a radically distinct people to the English. You're judging all national existences by the criterion of post-WWI Wilsonian ethnolinguistic nationalism, which was at the end of the day a ploy to carve up the Austro-Hungarian and other empires to provide the west with chesspieces. Ireland didn't get a hearing at any of these post-war conferences because it never suited Anglo-Franco-American power interests.

Even though I agree that the decline of the Irish language has been an unmitigated catastrophe for Ireland, the fact remains that the Irish are a people who would never confuse themselves with the English, who have a fundamentally different attitude to fate, death, sex, family, history, suffering, eternity and time. Would separate Central European nations (see pic) be as dramatically separated in their response to pain as the English and Irish are here? The fact that Italians contrast with Irish shows it's not merely a Catholic-Protestant difference.
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>>13531636
>You're replying to your own post, crafty cunt.
I am not. But that's just another notch in the long list of false assumptions you've made about me and others in this thread.
You do know assumptiveness is the sign of a diseased mind, right?
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>>13531643
>the Irish were a radically distinct people to the English.
In what way are they radically distinct? I'm still waiting on an answer for that.
People had all kinds of false beliefs in the 19th century. People have all kinds of false beliefs today.
What's your point, exactly?
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>>13531612
Shut the fuck up American Mike nigger.

>>13531625
>You just claimed Irish-Americans have nothing to do with Ireland and aren't Irish

Not my comment

People forget too that the bulk of the ancestory of Irish Americans came there only in the past hundred or so years. I think something like 3 million people emigrated from Ireland to there in the 20th century and there lots of pure Irish Americans who aren't mutts. Most I met had both sets of Irish grandparents.
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>>13531643
>the Irish are a people who would never confuse themselves with the English, who have a fundamentally different attitude to fate, death, sex, family, history, suffering, eternity and time.
Irish people are a hivemind now? Every Irish person shares the same attitudes towards these things? Every Irish person has the same tastes and interests? Every Irish person has the same personality, do they?
Irish people are the Borg?
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>>13531635
The Gaels (including Scottish Gaels, such as Martin Martin, in his 1703 A Description of the Western Islands of Scotland) called their language Irish when speaking English even though the word for it within the language itself was Gaeilge or Gàidhlig.

>>13531619
The Irish considered Manx and Scottish Gaels their diaspora, as Irishmen abroad. Panegyrics written by Irish bards to Scottish Gaelic lords were invariably on the theme of 'come home, Irish man.'
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>>13531649
>know assumptiveness is the sign of a diseased mind, right?

Its hard to keep track without IDs so sometimes assumptions are made or comments directed at the wrong person. Makes us look like schizos. I wonder why in the name of fuck there isn't IDs or flags on this board.
>>
>>13531664
Yes.
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>>13531660
>there lots of pure Irish Americans who aren't mutts
What about Irish people who are mutts? Eamon De Valera's father was a Basque immigrant. Michael Fassbender's father was German.
What are these people? They spoke English and they were only partially descended from Irish people at best.
Isn't it silly to class them as Irish then?
What about all those famous Anglo-Irish people of the past who you all try to claim as Irish today even though their ancestry was fully or predominantly English?
Are they Irish? In what way are they Irish?
>>
>>13531655
Since you're some kind of New Worlder and judge ethnic distinctiveness based on bright flashy national costumes and franchisable ethnic cuisines it's hard to summarise to you the manifold ways in which the Irish are as different from the English as two peoples speaking the same language can be in a single paragraph, but given that you're a New Worlder the reason that a topic as complex as this would be hard to explain within a single 4chan post is probably beyond your understanding.
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>>13531670
>Makes us look like schizos
It certainly makes some of us look like schizos, but I don't think it's down to the lack of IDs. You clearly are a very neurotic and mentally disturbed individual and in addition to the constant assumptions you keep spouting the kind of worldviews that only unhinged people tend to hold.
You are not a well man. And I hope you get some kind of help or therapy sometime soon.
>>
>>13531670
It's one of the reasons this is by far the worst board on the site. It has nothing about what makes 4chan fun. /pol/ is actually a better board to discuss history because it contains fewer deranged and bitter chauvinists.
>>
>>13531680
What do you mean partially at best? We have DNA sequencing you know. I even know an Australian who got 98% Irish (British isles but there was no reading for England or Scotland) from 23andme, which is probably more than a lot of people who literally live on the island
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>>13531687
>Since you're some kind of New Worlder and judge ethnic distinctiveness based on bright flashy national costumes and franchisable ethnic cuisines
Just false assumption after false assumption with you, isn't it.

>it's hard to summarise to you the manifold ways in which the Irish are as different from the English as two peoples speaking the same language can be in a single paragraph
What about the ways Irish people are different from one another? Care to try summarizing those for me?
If your entire sense of identity just relies on silly stereotyping and weird perceptions of Irish people as some kind of hivemind... then surely the reality of Irish people (which is a bunch of very different individuals with separate personalities and tastes and beliefs and opinions) must bring you to the conclusion that the Irish are a near rainbow coalition multiracial entity that only are really united by the language they speak, no?
A language which would also unite them with their neighbors on the island to their east.
Would it not?
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>>13531680
I could not care less about Fassbender. De Valera is an important figure so he gets a pass

Don't care about Anglo Irish. Definitely don't feel any sense of ethnic kinship with them or care about their important figures. No one seems to do. There's little importance attached to any of them here desu.
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>>13531706
>What do you mean partially at best?
Well if someone's parent isn't Irish... they're not going to be 98% Irish on a DNA test, are they?
Michael Fassbender is not 98% Irish. Eamon De Valera was not 98% Irish.

>which is probably more than a lot of people who literally live on the island
Oh no doubt, especially today.
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>>13531690
Cope
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>>13531708
>the reality of Irish people (which is a bunch of very different individuals with separate personalities and tastes and beliefs and opinions
nooooooooooooo your making me kill myself we're a bunch of soulless rootless freaks irishcels we need to all kill ourselves and were never a real people irishcels we lost.
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>>13531706
>We have DNA sequencing you know.
And have you ever looked at where DNA sequencing plots Irish people on PCAs? Have you ever looked at where you cluster in comparison to English people? Have you ever looked at the ancestral inheritance ratios of Irish people from PIE/WHG/EEF and compared it to neighboring European peoples?
Have you? Because I sincerely struggle to see how you could consider the Irish to be a 'distinct people' if you ever had.
>>
>>13531708
Here's one example: the fact that death is central to Irish life in a way that it is peripheral to English life.


>The Irish have considered death the most significant life-cycle transition (McGoldrick et al., 2004), and family members would go to great lengths to give the dead person “a good send-off.” They accepted death as a natural continuation of life—in fact, a release from this world’s suffering—and drink, music, prayer, and humor were never far away from a funeral (Donnelly, 1999). They have made it a point to attend all wakes and funerals of family members and friends, sparing no expense for drink and other arrangements, even if they have very little money. Even those who are estranged are expected to show up at the wakes and funerals, which can be important occasions for reconciliation even after years of cutoff, which is, unfortunately, a common problem among the Irish (Dezell, 2000). The joking Irish marriage proposal, “How’d you like to be buried with my people?” reflects this emphasis. The Irish think a lot about their own funerals, often encouraging others to plan for a good celebration.
Monica McGoldrick, 'Irish Families', in McGoldrick, Giordano, Garcia-Preto, Ethnicity and Family Therapy (New York/London, 2005), 606.
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>>13531709
>De Valera is an important figure so he gets a pass
Okay so people get a 'pass' now. It's not an objective thing, we can just pick and choose who's Irish whenever we feel like it and pretend certain people who objective aren't Irish magically are (like Va Lera).
>>
>>13531708
>>13531731
The attitude to pain, guilt and suffering:

>The Irish sense of individual shame and guilt often leads them to assume that their suffering is deserved. Conversely, they may feel uneasy if things go too well for too long. They find virtue and sanctity in suffering silently and alone, or in “offering up” their pain to God “in imitation of Christ.” The few studies we have of ethnic differences in response to physical pain suggest that the Irish minimize their pain, show confusion and inaccuracy in describing it, have a high tolerance for pain, and prefer to suffer in silence. Compared with other European groups, they have been less likely to seek medical help, even when they obviously need it (Sanua, 1960; Sternbach & Tursky, 1965; Tursky & Sternbach,1967; Zborowski, 1969; Zola, 1966), and they are less able to communicate with each other or their children about a child’s illness (Fitzpatrick & Barry, 1990).
McGoldrick, 'Irish Families', 601.

With regard to every aspect of human life, sacred and profane, the Irish are distinguished in their attitudes from the English. McGoldrick's chapter is a good introduction.
>>
>>13531709
>Don't care about Anglo Irish. Definitely don't feel any sense of ethnic kinship with them or care about their important figures. No one seems to do. There's little importance attached to any of them here desu.
That's basically every 'Irish' person of any renown or accomplishment in the past 500 years, bud.
Guinness was literally invented by a prominent Anglo-Irish family. They even threatened to leave Ireland if it became independent.
>>
>>13531735
Irish are much much closer to spaniards than they are to the island of britain and its people lol
>>
>>13531731
Okay, and what about the Irish people that don't do this or think this way? Do you not know what stereotypes or generalizations are or something?
What about Irish people that don't drink alcohol? What are they? Arabs?
>>
>>13531729
I'm not the guy you were arguing with, my objection was against that all Irish people outside Ireland are only partially Irish bar none. It's not like when the Irish migrated they scattered to the winds, they remained within communities and intermarried within their towns and districts
>>
>>13531740
Nobody in Ireland cares about Guinness or sees its founders as great national figures aside from seeing it as a drink among others which we drink. Why do Anglos keep picking random aspects of Irish history and society with which you have a vulgar fascination and treat them as though they were of the same interest to us as they are to you? Guinnes by the way had a Gaelic surname and was one of the small number of Protestants of Gaelic convert background to make it big in the Penal Era.
>>
>>13531741
>Irish are much much closer to spaniards than they are to the island of britain and its people lol
>>13526346
>>13526628
>>13526641
>>13526647
>>13526655

Oh really? In what sense?
>>
>>13531749
This board badly needs IDs. The lack of them is one of the reasons it's the worst board on the site.
>>
Alright everyone, let's standardize this silly little argument. If you score above a 90% for Ireland on a reputable dna sequencing test you're Irish. It's genetic, that simple. ~50%? Whatever the other half is + Irish, Anglo-Irish for example. That's good enough for most people. Any Irish American lineage has been in America for such a miniscule amount of time in the scheme of written history it does not matter.
>>
>>13531771
>If you score above a 90% for Ireland on a reputable dna sequencing test you're Irish. It's genetic, that simple.
So the fact that the Irish cluster extremely closely with English people, Scandinavians and Dutch and northern Germans... that's simple too right?
It's genetic afterall.
>>
>>13531740
Guinness is a Gaelic Irish surname. They were converts to Protestantism.
>>
>>13531735
>we can just pick and choose who's Irish whenever we feel like it and pretend certain people who objective aren't Irish magically are (like Va Lera).

Yes.
>>
>>13531771
>If you score above a 90% for Ireland on a reputable dna sequencing test you're Irish.
You know all those tests do is just amalgamate the DNA in Ireland though right? It's not taking into account whether that DNA is Norse or English or from other places.
It just takes the Y-DNA and mtDNA found in Ireland and amalgamates it.
So it might consider a subclade of R1b-U106 to be Irish for example. Or a subclade of R1a or I1 to be Irish even though that was clearly brought to Ireland long, long ago by non-Irish invading and colonizing peoples.
You do understand how these DNA companies operate, right?
>>
>>13531789
>Yes.
So not an ethnic identity then. A clique, effectively.
>>
>>13531780
(Not the guy you are arguing with from before) To an extent yes, all northern European people are intrinsically intertwined and closely related, on a broad scale we are all the same. But in the contexts of more recent history, there is enough allele variation that although we plot similarly, we still plot separately from one another even if not greatly with Celtic and Germanic background seeing the greatest extent of this variation. Regardless of distance, what remains a fact is that the variation is enough to be distinguishable.
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>>13531789
>Yes.
So what if Irish people disagree on a person's Irishness. What if you think Va Lera is Irish, but some other Irish person refuses to accept he is Irish.
How do you decide? A toincoss? And what if the Irish people see someone as Irish but they do NOT see themselves as Irish... who decides?
Toincoss again?
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>>13531800
>But in the contexts of more recent history, there is enough allele variation that although we plot similarly, we still plot separately from one another
You know 2 brothers can be distinguished from one another in a lab test right? You're acknowledging the Irish are genetically overlapping and overclustering with neighboring peoples and share a common descent but what you're saying is they're a completely different unrelated people because lab testing can distinguish between a person from Dublin and a person from Oslo?
Even though lab testing can also distinguish between a person from Dublin and a person from Cork or a person from Ulster?
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>>13531800
>Regardless of distance, what remains a fact is that the variation is enough to be distinguishable.
So 2 brothers are separate races then. Got it.

>we still plot separately from one another even if not greatly with Celtic and Germanic background seeing the greatest extent of this variation.
Lol, no, take a look at these >>13531753
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>>13531740
The Guiness family were actually descended from the McArtan clan, not Anglo Irish.
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>>13531800
>there is enough allele variation that although we plot similarly, we still plot separately from one another
Much like the people of Ireland themselves, right? So... the Irish people are actually multiracial... afterall there is allele variation and while they plot similarly... they still plot separately and can be distinguished in lab tests.
Fascinating.
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>>13531827
Charles De Gaulle was a descendant of the McArtans on his mother's side too and think the McMahons too.
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>>13531815
That is a far more minor example of autosomal variation, this isn't a gotcha. The genetic variation of an Irishman and a Norwegian is greater than two brothers.
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>>13531827
>The Guiness family were actually descended from the McArtan clan,
Partly, sure. They no doubt intermarried and mixed with the English whose language and identity they adopted though.
They certainly wouldn't have been marrying Catholic Gaels after converting and language shifting, that's for sure.

>not Anglo Irish.
Are you telling people what their identity is now, yeah? Are you now imposing an Irish identity on people who clearly abandoned it and wanted nothing to do with it?
How well do you think that's going to end for you?
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>>13531841
Oh but before you get me with another gotcha, we're assuming for this that these two populations are both devoid of eachothers genetic influence, Irishman is untouched by vikangs
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>>13531841
>The genetic variation of an Irishman and a Norwegian is greater than two brothers.
And the genetic variation between an Irishman and a Spaniard is far, far, far greater than between an Irishman and a Norwegian.
It's more of a gotcha than you think it is, bud, believe me. But we're getting to that realization.

>That is a far more minor example of autosomal variation
So how minor does it need to be? A moment ago you only needed to be able to distinguish between 2 people for them to be different.
How close do people need to be genetically before you consider them the same thing?

This is the gotcha moment. You answering this question is going to effectively fuck yourself in the ass.
Because you don't understand genetics. You cherrypick from genetics to forge your own neurotic little narrative.
That's your problem.
>>
>>13531859
>>13531849
Come on, it's clearly so crucial to your identity so you must have a standardized genetic distance measurement in order to conclude people as 'Irish', right?
Not a difficult question, my friend. Give me your genetic distance range and we'll see just how many Irish people are excluded by it, or just how many non-Irish people are included in it.
Pick carefully now.
So now you begin too see the importance of language, and why everybody speaking English in Ireland today actually is a BIG, BIG deal and a BIG, BIG problem for 'Irishness'.
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>>13531220
>>13531228
>>13531279
cope
ian stuarts resting in valhalla right now
for the blood and honour
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>>13531914
>Stewart/Stuart
A very Germanic name, comes from the Old English 'Stigeward', from whence Modern English takes 'steward'.
A fine name indeed.
>>
>>13531914
Do you miss getting bummed by him?

>ian stuarts resting in valhalla

Valhalla doesn't exist
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>>13531859
I never said you only had to distinguish two people for them to be different, I said the two populations are genetically distinguishable, but I should've been more specific. But you know that the degree of minority between two bothers is FAR less quantifiable than between an Irishman and a Dane. Even by virtue of the graphs you cited before there is obviously genetic clustering between Northern Germanic populations, southern Germanic populations, and Celtic populations which absolutely makes sense, as demonstrated by English populations with a higher Germanic admixture clustering closer towards Germanic populations, while the Celtic populations of Ireland and Scotland are forming what is a clearly visible cluster. It's minor, but again easily distinguishable, and there is far more variation between the Celtic and Germanic populations than between actual fucking brothers, to the point where it's lost on me why you even mentioned it. I understand your argument of "where is the line drawn then??" but common sense dictates it's obviously not at brothers
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>>13531846
>Are you telling people what their identity is now, yeah? Are you now imposing an Irish identity on people who clearly abandoned it

I don't think anyone identified as Anglo-Irish back then and even full blooded Anglos back then said they were Irish mainly in a geographic sense. Arthur Guinness was sympathetic to Irish Catholics too and was well aware of being of Gaelic stock.

Guinness's primary political positions, however, concerned the rights of Catholics to fully participate in Irish politics and society.[67][68] In addition to personally hiring Catholics for his brewery, and by accounts treating them fairly, Guinness advocated to overturn laws that restricted the ability of Catholics to enter certain professions, and as a member of the Royal Dublin Society, he argued for economic developments that would positively affect lower-class Catholics in agriculture and domestic industry.[
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>>13531960
>Even by virtue of the graphs you cited before there is obviously genetic clustering between Northern Germanic populations, southern Germanic populations, and Celtic populations which absolutely makes sense
The graphs actually show so-called 'Celtic populations' overlapping and overclustering with Dutchmen, Danes, Norwegians...
How does that support your position.
Go back and actually take a look through them.
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>>13531961
>I don't think anyone identified as Anglo-Irish back then
True, they just identified as English or British. Anglo-Irish is a neologism to try an add an Irish element to people who objective, explicitly did not consider themselves Irish.
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>>13531924
ian stuart donaldson our english hero will be remembered forever in valhalla gb no surrender
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>>13531960
>Inb4 but there's overlap!!
Yes, of fucking course there is, I'm well aware that some Irishmen are more or less Germanic than others, it's not perfect, but it's far more concrete than anything else like nationality, because that Asian that was posted earlier? She doesn't plot anywhere fucking near any of those samples
>>13531912
Also I don't know why you want me to post my genetic distance? I'm an Anglo, wouldn't prove too much, maybe you think you're talking to someone else itt
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>>13531914
Is that red Hiv pos ribbon thing on his jacket? Is that how he died?
>>
>>13531960
>I understand your argument of "where is the line drawn then??" but common sense dictates it's obviously not at brothers
Why does common sense dictate that. You can distinguish between them in a laboratory. There is genetic variation between them, albeit minor.

>It's minor, but again easily distinguishable
Like the genetic distance between 2 brothers.
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>>13531974
just like the term scots irish in america, used to describe a group exclusively descended from germanic northern english and scottish lowlanders with no irish blood at all
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>>13531984
>Last name: Donaldson
This interesting name, of Scottish and Irish origin, is the Anglicized form of the Gaelic patronymic name "MacDomhnall", meaning "son of Donald".

Gaelic surname lol
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>>13531987
No, it's nothing like the genetic distance between two brothers, if you were to chart two brothers, an Irishman and a Dane on a pca chart, there would be distance between the Irishman and the Dane, but the two brothers would be on the exact same plot, I get the point you're making, but it's fucking silly, the scope of "minor" in this situation is completely different. It's like saying "gee, that 5'6 guy is short" "oh yeah?? Well what even constitutes short??? An ant is even shorter!! So he's an ant then?? What's the difference? They're both short!"
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>>13531985
>Yes, of fucking course there is, I'm well aware that some Irishmen are more or less Germanic than others, it's not perfect, but it's far more concrete than anything else like nationality,
Well clearly it's not if Irish people have spent the better part of 500 years LARPing as Basques and claiming an affinity with southern Europeans, is it?
That was of course objectively false and archaeogenetics has proven that. Irishmen are nowhere near Basques in comparison to their genetic closeness to Norwegians, Englishmen and other Germanic populations of Europe.
So where's this 'Celtic cluster', because the so-called Celtic populations of Scotland and Ireland are actually firmly within a Germanic genetic continuum of northwestern Europe.
They're not remotely close to the peoples of formerly Celtic-speaking Europe, are they. Nope, they're slapbang in the middle of Germanic peoples.
So why did this false belief permeate? because, perhaps... language and cultural facets matter more to people than imperceptible tiny variations on DNA that they cannot actually perceive outside of laboratory testing, no?
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>>13531738
This hits hard for me as an Irish person considering how my mother for some time put off going to the doctor about pain which turned out to be cancer
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>>13532007
>No, it's nothing like the genetic distance between two brothers
No it absolutely is, the distance between 2 brothers is just smaller. Like the distance between an Irishman and a Norwegian is much smaller than between an Irishman and a Sub-Saharan African.

>but the two brothers would be on the exact same plot
No they wouldn't actually. They would be in separate plots but yes you would need to zoom in quite a bit before they became distinguishable.

>I get the point you're making, but it's fucking silly, the scope of "minor" in this situation is completely different.
The point isn't silly at all. You get it and you just find it hard to argue with. It's awkward for your position.

>It's like saying "gee, that 5'6 guy is short" "oh yeah?? Well what even constitutes short??? An ant is even shorter!! So he's an ant then?? What's the difference? They're both short!"
But that's exactly what you're doing when you try to pretend Irish people are unrelated to the people neighboring them.
You're saying hey look at the distance between these Irish points and these Norwegian points. Sure they overlap and overcluster even when we zoom in, but look they are in separate spots so there you go different race.
But actually if you zoom out just a little to include all of Europe or all of Asia or even all of humanity.
Suddenly when you include all of humanity you cannot distinguish between Irish and Norwegians because they operate the same spot on the PCA as countless other supposedly completely distinct European ethnic groups.
DON'T THEY.
So where is the line. Where do you draw it.
>>
>>13532016
Yes I know that they're not mainland celts, I never claimed they were Basques? I never claimed they clustered towards mainland celts, all I said is that the "celts" of the isles form a minor cluster, which I interpret as distinguished enough to form a genetic population despite overlapping with other Germanic samples due to the fluidity of genetics and the movement of people's. They absolutely form a minor cluster that you can visually witness on a pca chart, and that's really all I'm saying.
>>
>>13532019
>This hits hard for me as an Irish person considering how my mother for some time put off going to the doctor about pain which turned out to be cancer
Yeah because that's exclusive to Irish people and nobody outside of Ireland ever does those kinds of things.
>>
>>13532064
>Yes I know that they're not mainland celts
Well no they're not 'Celts' in a genetic sense whatsoever are they. They are clearly not genetically Celtic if they cluster nowhere near Celtic populations and are firmly within a Germanic genetic continuum.
Clearly, regardless of what language they spoke historically, they were 'genetically Germanic'.

>all I said is that the "celts" of the isles form a minor cluster,#
They don't.

>I never claimed they were Basques?
I DIDN'T FUCKING SAY YOU CLAIMED THEY WERE BASQUES, DID I, YOU FUCKING MORON. READ WHAT I'M FUCKING SAYING TO YOU OR DON'T BOTHER REPLYING.

>which I interpret as distinguished enough to form a genetic population
And why do you interpret it that way? I can arbitrarily pick a similar sized 'cluster' from anywhere in the Germanic genetic cluster and pretend they're a separate unrelated people but they clearly aren't.
It's called arbitrary cherrypicking. The genetic distances between so-called Insular Celts and people of the Proto-Germanic homelands like Norwegians and Swedes and Danes is actually far smaller than between Norwegians, Swedes and Danes and the VAST MAJORITY of the Germanic world.
Is it not? Is that not what your PCAs repeatedly show? That most of the Germanic world is actually more genetically distant from Scandinavians than the so-called Celtic Islanders are?
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE SO GODDAMN FUCKING BLINDED TO THIS.
You are just absolutely desperate to try and hamfist old, dead historical narratives into genetic data which DOES NOT SUPPORT THEM whatsoever.
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>>13532064
>despite overlapping with other Germanic samples due to the fluidity of genetics and the movement of people's.
And due to the fact that they descend from the exact same mixture of peoples and the exact same Bronze Age population bloc and have the exact same inheritance ratios of PIE/WHG/EEF and have continued to mix with each other and mingle ever since that shared Bronze Age descent from 5,000 years ago.
Yes?
>>
Bump
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>>13532064
I honestly don't know how you can look at this PCA and come to the conclusion that Irish and Scottish people are 'Celtic' in any way, shape or form.
It's an absolutely absurd takeaway. Do you not know how to read PCAs or something. Did you just not stop and take in how vast that 'Germanic Europe' cluster was?
You can combine Norway, Ireland/Scotland/England and Sweden and they're still all closer to one another genetically than 'Germanic Europe' is.
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>>13532064
>all I said is that the "celts" of the isles form a minor cluster, which I interpret as distinguished enough to form a genetic population despite overlapping with other Germanic samples
They quite clearly appear to merely be the northwestern edge of the Germanic world. There is no clear line of deviation, no clear break, it's very clearly a continuum with much overlapping and tight overclustering.
It would be like taking the southeastern corners of the Germanic cluster and claiming those people 'formed a minor cluster' and 'were clearly distinct from Germanic peoples' and were thus their own thing.
Or taking Swedes and saying well they clearly aren't Germanic and form their own cluster on the edges there and are very distant from most of Germanic Europe.
It's just nonsensical.
Norwegians are closer to 'Insular Celts' than they are most of the Germanic world so I guess they're 'Insular Celts' too.
Because we're just going to stop making sense and act like retards and perceive whatever what we want to perceive from PCAs and genetic data.
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>>13532121
Sure, that makes sense, I agree, you're right
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>>13532152
Huh. Thank you. For ONCE someone concedes and acknowledges common sense on /his/... Man, it's been a while since I remember that last happening.
>>
anglos...we win again
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>>13532166
Irish people are genetically Celtic. Deal with it, chud.
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>>13529935
>Scots. The insane anti-Irish poster is a Scotsman from Glasgow
It's not entirely impossible that he's actually English, as in born to actually English parents. In my experience ethnic English people raised in Scotland all go insane.
>>
If I ever have access to a time machine I'm showing Caesar /his/ and begging him to not divide up the northern Europeans as Germanic/Celtic because of all autism it causes.
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>>13532218
>Irish people are genetically Celtic.
They speak a Germanic language and cluster with other Germanic-speaking populations of Europe.
They are quite clearly Germanic.
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>>13532306
>They speak a Germanic language

Táim ag cáint Gaeilge gach lá, CHÚD. Níl mé an Sassana, CHUD.
>>
>>13532318
Try holding a 5 minute conversation in it, LARPer. In fact, I'm willing to bet you couldn't even Vocaroo that very line you just Google Translated lmfao.
Pathetic cunt.
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>>13532322
based incel
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>>13532322
Dun do bheal, amadan. Ta seasanach Agus albanach teanga mo hon.
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>>13532338
>albanach teanga mo hon.
Rude
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>>13532338
You do know I'm not even bothering to backtranslate your Google Translated Pig Latin, right? I don't know what you're saying, and I'm never going to know.
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>>13532343
Agus ta na daoine gorm teanga mo thon.
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>>13532354
Also rude, but I'm only offended by rudeness towards my ingroup
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>>13532351
Ba mhaith liom cácá milis agus oráiste agus uachtar reoite agus seacláid agus íspíní agus na ceann do na daoine na Sassana
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>>13532376
>agus na ceann do na daoine na Sassana

Kek. Go ionteach
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>>13532376
Pretty sure if the English had wanted to destroy people they basically viewed as a type of rural, regional English people they could have.
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>>13532390
COPE
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>>13532390
>they basically viewed as a type of rural, regional English
nah they thought irish were an inferior totally unrelated race, and tried to destroy them over a thousand years yet totally failed lol you can cope yourself to sleep at night by pretending they always viewed paddies as their british brothers that all their talks of celts being an inferior race never happened and a-at least we made them speak our language heh
>>
>>13532407
>lol you can cope yourself to sleep at night by pretending they always viewed paddies as their english brothers
They literally did though, they just discriminated against Catholics. All Catholics. They had no issues with Protestants in Ireland, regardless of their ancestral background or even what language they spoke.
Old English Catholics were just as disenfranchised as Gaelic Catholics. And Irish Protestants just as free as English Protestants.

>a-at least we made them speak our language heh
But they did...
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>>13532421
C Ó I P
Ó
I
P
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>>13532436
Okay, so we've established you're basically just English Catholics.
>>
>>13532065
That's not what that papers segment you read means, you are just retarded that's okay though, because people come from all walks of life ;)



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