So how do I argue with this Calvinist who says, "God hates the LGBT movement and people turn that way because of their sins" but also says that God made them that way? This Calvinist also says God made born people homo and trans because of the plan where necessary suffering exists. But the Calvinist said people made others hate homo and trans because of the plan too. This Calvinist also says God predestined the Holocaust because of the plan and wrote everyone's life from the beginning to end. That some souls are born dark and are destined to hell before they were even conceived. How would you argue against them?
>>12673771I wouldn't argue with the limitations of the Abrahamic view on God as the only perspective on God and trying to change someone view point on God, if it's not a problem to you in your life to a life threatening degree, is pointless.
>>12673779True but I'm asking for philosophical and Biblical arguments to see what thoughts on it are.
>>12673789From the Catholic perspective it's all part of God's plan and we as humans need to use our free will to overcome or not indulge in sinful behavior. As for suffering that is also part of God's plan but ultimately every soul can be saved/eventually does get saved as no soul can truly withstand being without God (which is what Catholics define Hell to actually be - separation from God).The Cathechism of the Catholic Church is a great source for this stuff as they don't even really believe there is a Devil like what most Christians believe, at most, just a tempter Lucifer that tests your love of God above all others.
>>12673820https://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTMHave fun browsing through it. It's all there and free.
>>12673820I've been to Catholic churches in the US and they do believe a devil exists and that many people go to hell.
>>12673832I went to Catholic Church and was instructed by a Deacon and Nuns that assured me that the Devil as the majority of the world thinks does not exist, but according to Abrahamic traditions Lucifer is supposed to exist and simply exists now to test our faith in God. As for Hell the modern understanding that I was told is that it's separation from God and that any soul can decide at any point of their damnation to surrender to Jesus Christ as their savior and be saved. But that's just what I was told.
>>12673848*I went to Catholic School in the US
>>12673771Noting said here is arguments, these are statements.You could ask how he know this
>>12673851Interesting. Do you think each Catholic church has different perspectives? Because I was taught hell was a place literally in the center of the Earth with fire. I was taught more the fire perspective than the separation from God perspective.
>>12673863I was taught in South Florida and the Nuns were Carmelites. The Deacon also had a large family and was no bullshit. The perspectives he taught he said were the ones he was taught when he went to school for it and he admits that a lot of the Church at the time wasn't teaching things from the philosophical perspectives needed to alleviate sensationalism. We even had to study other Religions etc in my school it was fun. The science classes sucked ass though holy shit.
>>12673771All Calvinism proves is that God is Evil.
>>12673892God is the ultimate everything and it's stupid to think less of God in that respect. Yes, God is the ultimate evil but also the ultimate good and the ultimate judge on every life. If anyone is going to be fair at the end of any life it will be God. The real question is whether or not there is a true Heaven, a temporary one like the Hindu believe in, or constant rebirth etc.
>>12673771The simplest argument against Calvinism is that this "God" is directly responsible for evil. In this case, God has already decided that these people be born to commit evil and actively wills then to commit evil. God then is not just responsible for creating evil, he is responsible for its perpetuation too. God could decide at any point to stop and doesn't, for no reason, because humans don't have an active will in the Calvinist mind. In short - if humans don't have a real functioning will there is no "plan where necessary suffering exists" because nothing is necessary to God. God is choosing this. Calvinists are some of the farthest people from God you can meet, and the irony is that they believe they are infallibly saved already. It is a massive demonic delusion. God open their eyes.
We are god.
>>12673952James White says evil is meaningless without God choosing ithttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKIZ5DUaQuM
God has given us all free will and wants us to repent and turn from evil. He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked.>Ezekiel 18:23 Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?>Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’
How does anyone debate this verse? Romans 9:20-21?But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?
>>12673832Yes, the Devil does exist.>>12673848No, a soul in Hell cannot repent anymore from their damnation. Those who go to Hell stay there forever.
>>12673848>>12673820>the devil doesn’t exist>Catholic school taught me thisHoly fuck the absolute STATE of Catholic education. Literally just churning out heretics
>>12673880You were literally taught heresy
>>12675061either heretics or ex catholics
>>12673771>born people homo and transWe say that they are born with the evil inclination to larp as women and fuck men. They aren't born "homo" or "trans". YWNBAW
>>12675653According to Calvinism, some people are predestined to go to hell before they are born. Are they also not predestined to do certain sins in order to go to hell?
>>12673907the ultimate evil cannot be the ultimate good what
>>12675683They go hell because they are predestined to commit evil acts and disbelieve in God not because they were born with a magical third gender such as "trans" or "homo".
>>12675705those aren't third genders though they are actions