>You lived a good and noble life, but you were born in a remote African village and never heard of Christianity? Sorry, but you can't enter heaven.>Why? Because... because... you just CAN'T, OK?!?!
>>12354836The salvation of non-Christians, non-Orthodox and heretics depends on the all-good, all-wise and all-powerful God, who acts in the Church but also through other "ways." God's saving grace is also channeled outside the Church. It cannot be assumed that salvation is denied non-Christians living in true piety and according to natural law by the God who "is love" (1 John 4:8), In his justice and mercy God will judge them worthy even though they are outside the true Church. This position is shared by many Orthodox who agree that God's salvation extends to all who live according to His "image" and "participate in the Logos." The Holy Spirit acted through the prophets of the Old Testament and in the nations. Salvation is also open outside the Church.Some compare the Church to Noah's Ark. It is not impossible for someone to "survive the flood" of sin by clinging to whatever driftwood is around or by trying to cobble together a raft from bits and pieces of whatever floats, but the Ark is a far safer choice to make. Likewise, the heterodox and even non-Christians might be saved simply through God's own choice, made for His own reasons, but it is far safer for any individual person to turn to the Orthodox Church. Thus, it behooves Orthodox Christians to exhort others to take this safer path. Likewise, the Orthodox remember that Christ mentions one, and only one thing that unfailingly leads to perdition—blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. No other path is explicitly and universally excluded by Christ's words.
>>12355282Nice pic I’ll add it to my bait folder.
>>12355295That’s a big presumption that you’ve made. Care to share where you got this heretical doctrine?
>>12354836Nah, The Beast is the Afro-Egyptian +Eurasian continental unifying antichrist force against Christ Jesus. We don’t have to worry about Africa. God already did the work of spreading the gospel to Africa through Egypt with the story of Moses and Abraham, and he’s not going to become slaves for you ever again. The skyscraper crocodile known as Kraid in Super Metroid is beaten by shooting at his face and shooting the disfigured shriveled hands and claws he shoots out of his body that bounce around the room that turn into health and missiles. Still one of the hardest bosses but beatable once you figure out how the stupid hands bounce around and shoot out.
>>12355282Daily reminder: chud'ak is psyop based on false leftoid narrative
>>12354851Are you a itching ear?You brought up people surviving the flood being possible. No, God said it is impossible, and “all flesh died.”That means everyone.You wouldn’t by chance be the same exact sounding catholic that showed his true colors before the hell thread died by taking the side of doctrines of demons pitying those who erased hell from their own bibles were you?>>12353678
>>123548512 Timothy 4:1-4 kjv1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
>>12355400Black skin, dense black hair, tough black countenance is all made for survival in the earth through dedication to absolutely being like an animal version of man. But these things have nothing to do with going to a higher place in Heaven, and making the body more tender, even vulnerable to the elements, even if people say whiter skin is better for the cold and living with less sunlight. Pale skin is still more vulnerable and can take on more friendlier tones so things of beauty can be brought out, like colored eyes and gentler hair colors and fierceless countenances. No fangs and claws needed.Ham was given the mark to serve Japheth and Shem, their bodies inherited the black man for us to be as our slaves under the antichrist laws of Noah. That is why people better accept Jesus Christ as savior because of sin. It’s stupid to live under rules of the Father for eternity with no recourse for justice. Especially given that Satanic Pharoahs were able to find ways to live as gods in luxury and pleasure and slaves of their own and attempted to keep it that way for eternity. That is why they failed.
>>12354836Is that the Orthodox view? Don't Catholics say no salvation outside the Church.
Isn't the "eternal suffering and punishment" image of Hades/Sheol just pop culture? I'm pretty sure it was just the place where the dead would indiscriminately end up in and being a Christian meant you were particularly special and would get a second, eternal life with God.
You don't believe as well because God intends for you to burn in hell.
>>12355406I did not mean the literal flood, I meant the “flood of sin“. What party of, “ God's saving grace is also channeled outside the Church. It cannot be assumed that salvation is denied non-Christians living in true piety and according to natural law by the God who "is love" (1 John 4:8), In his justice and mercy God will judge them worthy even though they are outside the true Church.” are you confused about?>>12355419How does that contradict me?
>>12355745No jesus explicitly says hell sucks bad. Several times. Lake of fire, all that. For whatever reason, gaytheists tend to think "jesus never mentioned hell!"
>>12355799>posts a parable >this is meant to be taken literally!are all e-christians this retarded
>>12354851If the virtuous pagan goes to heaven why bother preaching the gospel?
>>12356658Because he's gambling for the off chance that God will have mercy on him? That the pagan might not actually be all that virtuous? The Law was given to us, so that we might know that Sin is, not everyone know how to live in accordane to the natural law in their hearts.
>>12356627so pederast, whats the meaning of the parable?
>>12354836If you lived a good and noble life but you didn't ever hear about Christianity nor had any means to do so you can still go to Heaven with no problems. In fact, you could have more probabilities to enter than many baptized Catholics. Invincible ignorance does not prevent anyone from being saved.Cope harder, retard.
>>12357697Then what's the point of preaching the gospel?
>>12357783Value is if you're virtuous by a given moralitySalvation needs a >0 valueGospel = 1Other moral systems = between 0 and 0.99Therefore 1 is the best option
>>12356667If god takes mercy on the virtuous pagan than it isn’t gambling, if he might not than you’re peddling lies as facts.
>>12354836Yes this is obviously bullshit. Why did you make it a thread?
>>12355775You said it was possible to be unsaved and still live in piety and that they would be given salvation automatically or something. No, it doesn’t work like that. And everyone reading can see you made even more lies up like the flood of sin which is a retarded allegory, especially since you said we can’t even think of the real flood and then got defensive when you were exposed.
>>12357950Are you claiming that you are the one who knows God‘s will and His plan?
>>12359450Explain how I am lying. Why do you think that somebody who has never seen the light of Christ is forever doomed to hell
>>12354836Yes, most salvation theology requiring specific belief is a naked attempt at consolidating the Church's political power. This isn't as transgressive a point as you think it is.
>>12357984Look at all the people here still defending obvious bullshit
>>12354836If it makes you feel better OP most christcucks are niggers
>>12354836>You lived a good and noble life, but you were born in a remote African village and never heard of Christianity? Welcome to heaven.>Why? Because righteousness without religion is still righteousness, but religion without righteousness is murder of the soul.
>>12354851>The Christian god>All-goodImagine reading the Bible and somehow managing to come to that conclusion
>>12355745Isn't the "eternal suffering and punishment" image of Hades/Sheol just pop culture?Kinda yes. When the Messiah died he raised the dead from their slumber and heaven was awaiting to receive the righteous.>Luke 23:43>Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.” Now concerning hell, there is no eternal torture but rather it is destruction being finite and irreversible. Still some are to be punished but only until they have completed their sentence and they will be released.>Matthew 5:25-26>Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.>and being a Christian meant you were particularly special and would get a second, eternal life with God.So say the Christians...>John 4:22>salvation is from the Jews.
>>12356658>If the virtuous pagan goes to heaven why bother preaching the gospel?Because not every pagan is virtuous and converting to the proper understanding may save your spirit from destruction.
>>12357984Every thread he posts is a straw man argument...
>>12354836Sorry I'm a Muslim we don't have such nonesense in our faith.
>>12355352are you sure? it's really how the lot of you conduct yourselves, based on my observations
>>12359544You sound like you have NEVER heard of the Bible before, yet you quote stuff from it, incredibly ignorant to what it says, too, with itching ears to doctrines of demons.Jesus said you cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven without being born again through his name, which is the only name given unto men to be saved. That means there is no such thing as an African who hasn’t heard about him.Philippians 2If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in
>>12359544He just did explain why you were lying, and why you can't just live pious life without turning to Christ and still get to heaven. You must be reborn, do you even read the bible?
>>12360517Muslims are half-ham half-dragon halfbreeds. Does this come as a shock to you? It probably shocks most people, oh well. God knows what that means.It means you are incredibly biased against white people and decided to create your own Abraham religion based on race and stay separate from Israel.
>>12359638>obvious bullshitYes, the obvious bullshit of the catholic saying things like he has never heard that if you never accepted Jesus Christ as savior, that you would go to burn in hell for all eternity.I told you, no, you can’t do that. Then he argued. I think that pretty much sums up DEMONIC DOCTRINE in a nutshell.
>>12360757He really didn’t. What about the man who died on the cross alongside Jesus? he wasn’t “Born Again” (aka Baptised).
>>12354836Damn, every person that visited Catholic sunday school knows that this is an argument of a person that has 0 idea about Christianity beyond the Jesus and the Cross
>>12360786>aka baptizedNo, the thief on the cross was born again just by obeying Jesus. You don’t even know the Bible!!! Holy shit, God! Jesus! Where do these Satan’s come from that reply so quickly like they are waiting like bots with replies!curse them all to hell amen! We don’t have that kind of time to deal with your bullshit.
>>12360726> The Orthodox view of dialogue with other religions is also rooted in the Church Fathers. Subsequent to the Apostolic age St. Justin Martyr, a second century apologist, makes the claim for Christianity that "Whatever things were rightly said among all men are the property of us Christians." Justin espouses the belief that both Gentiles and Jews will be saved on the basis of their piety and holiness. He states that "Christ is the first-born of God, and we have declared above all that He is the Word (Logos) of whom every race of men were partakers; and those who lived according to reason are Christian." All peoples are able to participate in the "spermatikos logos" or seed of reason: "For each man spoke well in proportion to the share he had of the spermatic word (reason disseminated among men), seeing what was related to it," because "the seed of reason (the Logos) implanted in every race of men" makes God's revelation accessible to all  The pre-existence of the eternal Logos of God enables "all the races of men to participate" in God's revelation. The "seed of the Logos is innate in all the races of men and resides in all people." uniting humanity and making all "part of the Logos."https://www.goarch.org/-/an-orthodox-christian-view-of-non-christian-religions#_edn10
>>12360798The sacrament of baptism is basically somebody “dying“ and then being reborn again as they exit out of the water. This has been taught for the past 2000 years buddy. Do you really think that “Born Agai is just a magical mindset or something?
>>12360772>It means you are incredibly biased against white peopleWhat? Who told you that?>create your own Abraham religion based on raceThat sounds retarded
>>12360294The probabilities don't add up though. The invincibly ignorant pagan just has to be virtuous. Catholics have to be virtuous and also believe in the Resurrection and do all the Catholicy stuff like go to Mass and get baptized and stuff.Logically the best way to get the heathen heaven is to teach them secular ethics and make sure they never hear about Christianity.
>>12360869Sounds like you aren't born again then. It's not just dying and being and being reborn, which will happen, but it's also a spiritual change inside you, something that marks you and causes repentance. You should definitely go read and study the bible like your life depends on it, because it does.
>>12360869>Hurrdurr I've never heard that you go to hell if you don't believe in Jesus Christ to go to Heaven.This is (You):>t cannot be assumed that salvation is denied non-Christians living in true piety and according to natural law by the God who "is love" (1 John 4:8)Which says:1 John 4:7-8 KJV7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.You who know not Christ Jesus died for your sins are going to hell for ALL ETERNITY.It doesn't mean GO JUMP IN DA WATER BABOOSHKA TO GET TO HEAVARN!If you aren't Roman Catholic then you sure as hell aren't Western Catholic. That is why I imply you must be russian grandmother babooshka demon.
>>12360883There are Islamic white people, but they don't realize they are worshiping a black religion for Hams.Just like Buddhism is for Shems.Just like Orthodoxy is for Japheths.They do all work together against Christ Jesus, for Satan would be divided against himself if he conjured demons out of himself, but you are fooling yourself if you think Islam isn't black people's Israel. The Afro-Egyptian Antichrist called The Beast.
>>12360904I believe in God and his prophet, i don't believe in Catholics. All these many Christians cannot even agree amongst themselves, yet truth is one and lies are many.Again, heaven is not for the religious, but for the righteous only.>Matthew 5:10>Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.Not religion or faith, but righteousness.>Matthew 5:20>For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.And you will have to be more righteous then the religious hypocrites.>Matthew 13:43>Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.
>>12361145I'm with you anon. To me if you live righteously you punch your ticket to heaven, regardless of what you believe. Never understood why God cares so much if you intellectually assent to the Trinity or transubstantiation or something like that.
That doesn't happen thankfully, they just go to their traditional afterlifes if they're fortunate enough to have missed out on contact with monotheists
>>12356627>it's only parablesThe Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 13:41-42)
>>12361232>Never understood why God cares so much if you intellectually assent to the Trinity or transubstantiation or something like that.It is the righteous who gather and the evil who scatter about, for under God there is only one great understanding, but under the devil there are many little understandings, and those who are united do not fight amongst themselves, but those who are divided will sin against eachother.Spiritual warfare if you will.
>>12356658Which would you rather have: a 50% chance of going to heaven when you die or a 100% chance of going to heaven when you die?Being a virtuous pagan is like being an illiterate bard trying to remember the history of your people through oral recitation. Spreading the WORD is like recording history in a written document in order to preserve it forever. Paganism is a cointoss, pure luck that you'll hit the right thing. Christianity is a guaranteed win, all you have to do is show your receipt to the teller.
>>12361386So because I believe bread that looks like bread is just bread I'm evil? And it's funny who were the people fighting wars over doctrines and burning others at the stake over heresies.Sounds to me like the Devil did a good job dividing Christians over theological minutae while ignoring the real teachings of Jesus.
>>12361525>or a 100% chance of going to heaven when you dieMost Christians aren't getting into heaven tho. Many are called, few chosen. Narrow gate and all that. Some saints gave a number like 1 / 100 or something like that.Virtuous pagans better got the better odds.
>>12355745this guy >>12360286 has generally hit the nail on the headthe idea of fire and brimstone hell with ironic torments is mostly the invention of Dante, and later Milton, both of which were corrupted by retarded Victorian protestants who dominated popular culture into the 20th centurythe true and ultimate punishment of hell is the second death: soul death, obliteration of existenceChrist's promise of "eternal life" is about your soul's life, your consciousness persisting in the spiritual realm after you die, whereas the wages of sin are death, that your soul is destroyed with your bodyIf anything, if your soul is being tormented by demons and satan after you die, it should be considered a blessing and a source of hope, because it means God didn't see fit to exterminate your soul instantly and sees fit that your punishment is occurring to teach you the righteousness to beg for His forgiveness, which He will grant when it suits Him
>>12361574it's a 100% chance if you mean it, obviously shitstain crypto-fedoras who don't bother accepting Christ into their hearts but just use it as a cloak to hide their sins aren't going to heaven
>>12361615The common opinion is that the greater part of adults are lost.” -Saint Alphonsus Liguori, -Mystic and Doctor of the Church"It is certain that few are saved." – Saint Augustine, Doctor of the Church"Out of one hundred thousand sinners who continue in sin until death, scarcely one will be saved."-Saint Jerome, Father and Doctor of the Church"The number of the elect is so small — so small — that, were we to know how small it is, we would faint away with grief: one here and there, scattered up and down the world!” -Saint Louis Marie de Montfort"So vast a number of miserable souls perish, and so comparatively few are saved!" –Saint Philip Neri, mystic“The greater number of Christians today are damned. The destiny of those dying on one day is that very few – not as many as ten – went straight to Heaven; many remained in Purgatory; and those cast into Hell were as numerous as snowflakes in mid-winter.” -Blessed Anna Maria Taigi, mystic“Among adults there are few saved because of sins of the flesh. […] With the exception of those who die in childhood, most men will be damned.” -Saint Remigius of Rheims“The number of the damned is incalculable.” -Saint Veronica Giuliani, mystic"A great number of Christians are lost.” -Saint Leonard of Port Maurice"So many people are going to die, and almost all of them are going to Hell! So many people falling into hell!” –Blessed Jacinta, visionary of Fatima“Taking into account the behavior of mankind, only a small part of the human race will be saved.”-Sister Lucia, visionary of FatimaI doubt all those ppl are crypto-fedoras. Most of them probably believe in God and fear hell. Odds are just stacked against them with shit like PornHub.
>>12361540Bread is bread no matter what it looks like, anyone who says bread is bread says what is righteous. But anyone who makes the truth into a lie or the lie into the truth has done the evil thing and should repent their ways.The devil is most clever and his intent is to corrupt and pervert all things, he inspires the lie in the minds of men.
>>12361232>calling a tripfaggot anonNothing that follows this can be of any truth.
>>12360955>but it's also a spiritual change inside you, something that marks you and causes repentance.Baptism. Literally Baptism.
>>12361668Calvin was right
Why Christian prosthelytize??? They take away people's plausible deniability.Are they evil?
>>12361011Religion has nothing to do with race you retarded fucking nigger it's about truth and God/Allah's light
>>12362526Obviously. They worship the most evil deity ever invented by man, after all.
>>12362921>Religion has nothing to do with race Read the Bible
>>12354836>You lived a good and noble lifeAccording to what merits?One of Christianity biggest messages is that no one is actually good by himself or his own will and you need God's grace.This whole shit that gets repeated shout) about non faithful person who's just so perfect and nobel is a mere meme and fantasy.You can never actually see every moment of someone's life and all of their actions and why did they do it and what were their intentions....since we do know how bad humans and selfish humans can be it's safe to assume such person doesn't really exist.
>>12362983the bible is a) fake and b) obsoleted by the quran
>>12363480Half the Quran got obsoleted by the other half kek. Who tf can trust it.
>>12363467>One of Christianity biggest messages is that no one is actually good by himself or his own willOriginal sin isn't in the Bible.
>>12363529Sounds a lot like the Bible
Molinism resolves this
>>12354836>You lived a good and noble lifet. Some random demon on 4chanwhat the Bible ACTUALLY says...>As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God
>>12363545>And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.>Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.>John 1:8-10 If we go around bragging, “We have no sin,” then we are fooling ourselves and are strangers to the truth. But if we own up to our sins, God shows that He is faithful and just by forgiving us of our sins and purifying us from the pollution of all the bad things we have done. If we say, “We have not sinned,” then we depict God as a liar and show that we have not let His word find its way into our hearts.>You see, all have sinned, and all their futile attempts to reach God in His glory fail. Yet they are now saved and set right by His free gift of grace through the redemption available only in Jesus>Isaiah 64:6 All of us are dirty with sin. All the right things we have done are like filthy pieces of cloth. All of us are like dead leaves, and our sins, like the wind, have carried us away.>Ecclesiastes 7:20 There is not a righteous person on earth who always does good and never sins
>>12363572>And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.Oh nonono Orthobros...
>>12362921Your religion does, and so does the antichrist Beast religion which your religion is going to worship through the false shepherd, if it isn't already.
>>12363480Ok you convinced me. Good arguement. I'll never get passed the door to get the banana of God now because you stood there and said "NO U R WRONG NO BANANA."
>>12361668>Bunch of people not in the Bible, but venerated by Mary Venerators.You may as well (continue making) gay zelda games.Also you actually think Porn/any Sin can stop Jesus Christ. Pathetic.
>>12354836You people are so fuckin ignorant
>>12364330>No argumentBecause there isn’t one, your god is a turbofaggot
>>12363570>>12363467So... are unbaptized babies going to hell or not?
>>12354836>good an justHe can’t have lived a good and just life according to god’s will if he never read the Bible. Fucking dumbass
>>12364980>He can’t have lived a good and just life according to god’s will if he never read the Bible.Then your god and his will are evil, simple as.
>>12360279Mixing Platonic ideals with OT desert stories produced some of the most repulsive copiums.
>>12365142This reads like the Mad Hatter’s voice in Alice in wonderland. In that it sounds incredibly gay and high pitched like it is attempting to sound civilized.
>>12364974No. I'm not Catholic.First of all you can go to heaven without being baptized. Secondly, a baby cannot "choose" to reject God, so the most sensible and consistent thing for a loving God to do, would be to elect a dead baby.
>>12354836Actually, Christian theology is cool with people who haven't heard about God. However, anyone who has heard about Jesus's saving graces and chooses to defy him is doomed.
>>12361574>1/100 go to heavenLMFAO christcucks should be jailed for false advertising. All I ever hear is that I need to accept Jesus or some shit and I'm golden. Then again, Christianity is already terribly contradictory and splintered, so I'm not surprised.
>>12365436That[s all your arguments are is “christcucks this” and “christcucks that”, when the antichrist hears you, he is going to fucking murder you,
>>12365279No, everyone is damned to hell by God. This is In Genesis. “No one is without excuse” God created the signs and the wonders. It isn’t only about God the Father, it is also about sin and laws. God’s Laws. You can;t pretend ignorance of murdering other people, or of a male and a female. The gays created their mark of territory, like a beast, and have chosen their own Christ, but they will go to hell because reality can’t be ignored. Neither can God.
>>12365269I agree with your surmising, I will just let God be the surmiser.
>>12365583>God created the signs>There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or INTERPRETS OMENS, or a sorcerer (Deuteronomy 18:10)
>>12354851I appreciate the larp, and don't disagree with your argument in terms of theology, but I believe you are wrong in principle.The idea of this thread is very similar to the Valladolid debate (1550-51). And like the theologian Las Casas did 500 years ago, I'd like to make a similar argument.Animists are created by God, yet in most cases salvation was denied to them by their lack of virtue to do away with "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit". The paternalistic spirit of education against this spirit of blasphemy quickly and easily turns violent because most forms of Christianity, by their own creation of a sense of righteousness, becomes a religion for zealots. (A bit Edward Gibbons but I don't believe he was wrong.) The structures of society (that includes faith) do not reflect "right" and "wrong". One can call it sin, but this is just a more developed form of civilizational tribalism. All this really comes down to is a world view placed in a religious context, because religion is not something exclusive to spirituality but encompasses a whole set of other ideas (political, cultural, etc).Within this context, the gratification of virtue manifested in religion being denied because of "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" is nothing but a justification for dominance. It is the same thing the Spanish and Portugese did against the natives in Mesoamerica. "They are savages at the same rate that we say fruits are wild, which nature produces of herself and by her own ordinary progress; whereas, in truth, we ought rather to call those wild whose natures we have changed by our artifice and diverted from the common order. In those, the genuine, most useful, and natural virtues and properties are vigorous and sprightly, which we have helped to degenerate in these, by accommodating them to the pleasure of our own corrupted palate."- Michel de Montaigne (1533-1592), ‘Of Cannibals, 1580’.