I'm curious how exactly did they manage to turn Iran back into a region power after centuries of brutal conquests and destruction as well as mismanagement? The Mongol invasions killed off a huge portion of the population and also destroyed tons of infrastructure (most importantly irrigation works) and Timur also caused similar amounts of destruction. In between these and the Safavids you had short dynasties that kept replacing each other and did nothing to help out the situation. The clearest example of this is that Khorasan previously the most relevant region culturally and economically for over a thousand years went into terminal decline. The 438 years between the Buyids and Safavids is probably one of the most pitiful times in history. Compared to their Ottoman and Mughal contemporaries the Safavids didn't have much to work with especially after losing eastern Anatolia after Chaldiran. Which brings me back to the original question how did they turn Iran back into a regional power?
>>11929058>Why would it not be, has all the resourcesLike what. Oil wouldn'y discovered until much later
>>11929065Not that anon>Good population>Massive coastline >Crossroads between continents>Strong cultural and religious identity>Prior rulers benifited from above and added to themSeems good enough.
>>11929078>Good populationNot really according to estimates Iran didn't recover to it's pre-mongol population levels until the 19th century >Massive coastlineUnderused. I think Shah Abbas was the one who really started to develop a navy >Crossroads between continentsYeah that's one thing it had going for it but the silk roads were in the middle of being phased out. Plus like I said Khorasan which was in the middle of those trade routes became a dump. >Strong cultural and religious identityThat's debatable. The former I agree with but the main Safavid conquest was to convert Persia to Shia Islam from Sunni Islam.>Prior rulers benifited from above and added to themName some. No one really comes to mind other than Uzun Hasan who was pretty much just a powerful warlord
>>11929046Turks. The whole of “Iran” political actors from 1030 onwards are Turks. Shah Ismail (that picture) was a Turkmen from Erzincan and related to Ak Koyunlus. Nader Shah was an Afshar Turk.
>>11929046Kurdish Shia BVLLS took over after realizing that sunni cucks couldn't do anything but suck turkic/mongol/arabic dick.So kurdish BVLL Ismail I. made everyone else also a Shia BVLL, in the end everyone who wasn't an Iranian became a persiaboo even major shah's like nader shah who btfo ottoman roaches.
>>11929628>Shah Ismail (that picture) was a Turkmen from Erzincan and related to Ak Koyunlus.he was more related to the kurdish safavid order and direct decandent of the kurdish founder of the safavid order
>>11929078>Good population. Iran population was about 4-6 million for most of its history. Their population remain small well into the 1st half of the 20th century. By the end of world war 2 their population was less than 20 million, and when the Shah was overthrown the population was 37 million. The population only balloon recently. You think Saddam would dare start a war with them if they had 80+ million inhabitants like they do today?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_in_1700https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_in_1800https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Iran
>>11930648Kurds belong to the Iranian tree right?
>>11930714Linguistically and culturally yes, genetically probably also most of them but they have differences here and there, kurds in Turkey can look sometimes different from iraqi kurds or the kurds in Iran. Especially alevi kurds in Turkey.
>>11929046According to Wikipedia in my language, Abbas I had a talent in military affairs and coincidentally, the Netherlands they had alliance with had at the time experienced the military revolution that Persia also greatly benefited from.
>>11929046literakky everyone in iran say they were azeri turks. Qyzilbashi tribes were all Turkish speakers and the safavids belonged to the them.
>>11930911Roaches are very busy today
>>11930028>>11930648dilate farrookh>Safavid society continued Mongol and Timurid patterns and practices—ranging from its coinage to its administrative institutions. The Safavids, in fact, consciously built their legitimacy on past tradition. Just as Timurid historians had attempted to forge a connection with the Mongols, so Safavid historians made an effort to associate Shah ʿAbbās I with Timur-e Lang (r. 1370-1405) and to present him as a divinely inspired figure.
>>11931330What is there to dilate the order was kurdish and the turkics you are referring to were already heavily persianized. Even shah's who were full on Turkmen like Nader were persianized it was the leading culture noone identified with mongol tradition or culture because the steppeshitters barely had one.
>>11931390You dumb faggot. Literally the entire non-sharia common law in the Middle East from 13th century to 18th century was based off of Turco-Mongolic Yassa. Shah Ismail hadn't even learned Persian until he was a teen and his poetry collection is almost entirely written in Turkish with barely any Persian in it. Nader Shah literally tried to unite Ottomans, Mughals and his domains into a single Empire because they both shared a common Turkmen origin.>When describing Nāder’s coronation, Astarābādi called the assembly on the Moḡān steppe a quriltāy, evoking the practice of Mughal and Timurid conclaves that periodically met to select new khans. In various official documents, Nāder recalled how he, Ottomans, Uzbeks, and Mughals shared a common Turkmen heritage. This concept for him resembled, in broad terms, the origin myths of 15th century Anatolian Turkmen dynasties. However, since he also addressed the Mughal emperor as a “Turkmen” ruler, Nāder implicitly extended the word “Turkmen” to refer, not only to progeny of the twenty-four Ḡozz tribes, but to Timur’s descendants as well.>Nāder’s novel concepts regarding the Jaʿfari maḏhab and common “Turkmen” descent were directed primarily at the Ottomans and Mughals. He may have perceived a need to unite disparate components of the omma against the expanding power of Europe at that time, however different his view of Muslim unity was from later concepts of it.This is a pathetic cope Farookh. You need to dilate and take your meds.
Looks like no one will answer my question. Instead I got autism
>>11931060>r/wikipediaThank you for your contribution Fersian diasporafag
>>11931448>Roach fantasies are strong hereGo on pretend you were not arabized and persianized even the fucking seljuks would disagree with you OnurSeethe as much as you want Toogay but safavids were not turkic, neither the founder or their culture. Stay coping.
>>11931846>no argumentBut what did I expect from a roach.Btw read up on Kizilbaş and you'll see that the term was later used to describe literally anyone from the alevi religion especially from the ottoman point of view, where the kizilbas had to live after persia lost to the ottomans and the today's borders between Turkey and Iran were drawn and they were literally stranded on ottoman territory.If anything the kizilbas at first were Turkmen but the term included many more ethnicities later on, that's why you can find people with the surname kizilbas from Afghanistan to turkey with different backgrounds. I hope you understand diaspora Furkan Berkay
>>11932288We have nothing in common Farrookh. You are literal gypsies who live in caves. Lowly, ugly pack of dysgenic subhumans. Precisely the reason you’ve been ignoring quotations from actual academic sources all of whom unanimously agree with each other. Pic related is your “civilization”. No wonder your subhuman kind crosses the border each day en masse here “for a better life” then rape children because they are pathetic, dysgenic human trash at the literal dregs of the society.
>>11932447DAS RITE WE WUZ KANGZ. DEM TURKS TOOK OUR PALACES AND GAVE US CAVES AND SHIEEEEET.
OP here. I don't care if the Safavids were Persian or Turks. I just want an answer to my question
>>11930648That is a LARP. He was majority Turkish, spoke Turkish, and lived in Turkish style.
>>11931390The order’s founder is supposed to have been Kurdish. 1. He was not actually a descended from them. He lied. Like he lied about being the Mahdi and being a Sayyid.2. The Turkmen were not persianized. The Safavids literally had trouble because their army didn’t speak Persian and lynched/raided the Persian townspeople.
>>11932340The core Kizilbas and Safavid homeland is eastern Turkey— not Iran. They got cucked out of that clay by the Ottomans.
>>11931390Nader was literally a tent-born Afshar who spoke Turkish and converted to Sunni religion in order to stop fighting his Turkish bros.
>>11930648The claim of descent from the Safaviyya was a lie to make the magical-thinking Turkmen Alevis think he was the literal son of god Trinity/ali/mahdi combo, which they did. Shah ismail got curb stomped by Selim because he was drunk half the time and his soldiers thought that their blessings/prayers would protect them from ottoman cannon/rifles.
If he was just another Turkish chieftain’s son like them, they’d be less convinced that he was the mahdi/Ali’s descendant…
>>11933187>Ali’s descendantnothing special. There tons of Sayyids around. Besides Twelvers/Alevis only care about 12 of them
>>11933198Retard. It’s a huge thing. Especially in Iran and especially back then. Yeah there are more than it makes sense, because most are lying.
>>11933177Safavids while outnumbered did inflict heavy causalities on the Ottoman army. Besides Ismail wanted to continue the torched earth campaign a little while longer but was forced to give battle by his qizilbash.
>>11933154>converted to Sunni religion in order to stop fighting his Turkish brosnone of those happened
>>11933209Cope. The ottomans killed half the Safavid commanders, and destroyed their ability to to wage war. Meanwhile the ottomans went from this, like 6 months later, and conquered the Mamelukes (who had 250k or more soldiers). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chaldiran
>>11933217Yes he did. He converted, and created the Jafari Madhab. The ottomans were elated but the black harem eunuch didn’t approve so it wasn’t official, but Nader lived privately for the rest of his life as a Sunni man with jafari (as opposed to hanafi) sensibility.
>>11933222your wikipedia article literally states both sides suffered heavy losses >>11933228>Jafari MadhabNo such thing exists or ever did. It was a failed attempt from the start
>>11933251That’s cope. They lost like 3,000 versus the 25000+ by the Safavids. How do we know? Like 2 weeks alter, the ottomans waged campaign like nothing against the stronger Mamelukes and destroyed them in 1 year.
>>11933251It was not a failed attempt. Nader Shah proposed to create it, and indeed, many Alevi in Turkey to this day identify as Jafari. The idea as that the Sunni-Shia split would be fully rectified, with the Shia represented in Ottoman Sunnis by the Jafari madhab. The Ottoman grand vizier wwas all for it, so was the Sultan, but the Harem Chief Black eunuch — who was a councilor of state and controlled the Islamic foundations of the empire, refused and vetoed the suggestion.
>>11933273>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_ChaldiranIt's either heavy losses on both sides or 2000 on the Ottoman side and 5000 on the Safavid. You're the one who is coping
>>11933281None of the Iranians followed Nader Shah's example including his own successors
>>11933273>>the ottomans waged campaign like nothing against the stronger Mamelukes and destroyed them in 1 year.> StrongerHoly fucking shit, Shlomo.Why should anyone take anything you say seriously after such a blunder?The Mamluks were fighting a very LONG war against a well-established European power.Furthermore, the VAST majority of the Mamluks' troops were just peasants who didn't even know how to handle a musket, because the Mamluks were running out of resources fighting the Portuguese.I don't mind you LARP'ing as a Turk, Shlomo, you inbred mutt rat but I do take issue with your LARP'ing with anything beyond a surface-level understanding of ME history.
>>11931060> WikipediaYou just owned yourself, retard.
>>11933383Are you retarded? The Mamelukes had been at peace for 200 years. They were also allied to Venice and the Europeans. They were the superpower of the Middle East, with the strongest cavalry in the world.
>>11933338It’s heavy losses for the Safavids, decisive victory for the ottomans, and minimal losses for the ottomans. The sources are “conflicted” because of schizo Safavid-Iranians who claimed 400,000,000 dead turks.
>>11933341Doesn’t matter. And they sort of did. A lot of highly educated Iranians, even if they’re not secular, do these days go “we’re all Muslims, lets be friends, we’re just similar rather than different”. That’s Naderism. The classic Shia approach would be to spit and scream at the Sunni.
>>11933443Then post a source that doesn't contradict you retard
Koca Mehmet Ragip Pasha forwarded Nader Shah’s proposal to the Imperial Council. The Jannisary Agha, the Naval Kapudan, the Foreign Minister, and the War Minister all approved. The Chief Black Eunuch — like the Minister for Domestic Affairs, who managed Mecca/Medina, said fuck no “not as long as I, el Hajj-Beshir Agha live, will this false rite be allowed to cohabit alongside the rightful four rites”.It was such an issue that the peace-treaty wasn’t signed until he died, 7 years later. Despite a cessation of hostilities in the meanwhile.
Shah Ismail’s wild claims:My name is Shāh Ismā'īl. I am God's mystery. I am the leader of all these ghāzīs.My mother is Fātima, my father is 'Ali; and eke I am the Pīr of the Twelve Imāms.I have recovered my father's blood from Yazīd. Be sure that I am of Haydarian essence.I am the living Khidr and Jesus, son of Mary. I am the Alexander of (my) contemporaries.Look you, Yazīd, polytheist and the adept of the Accursed one, I am free from the Ka'ba of hypocrites.In me is Prophethood (and) the mystery of Holiness. I follow the path of Muhammad Mustafā.I have conquered the world at the point of (my) sword. I am the Qanbar of Murtaza 'Ali.My sire is Safī, my father Haydar. Truly I am the Ja'far of the audacious.I am a Husaynid and have curses for Yazīd. I am Khatā'ī, a servant of the Shāh's.
>>11933560That's a poem you idiot
>>11933599Yeah its also like what he believed and what he preached and what his soldiers believed. This isn’t even controversial. Go ask a Shia or Alevi. They still think Ismail was the Mahdi=Jesus=Ali=Muhammad.It’s how he got to power.
>>11933599This was not like some ironic poem post modern “challenging expectations” shit you dunce.
>>11933389>t.source: ju-just trust me brook yo-your source is shit
>>11933154>that happened bro tru-trust meActual schizo
>>11932740>He was majority Turkish, spoke Turkish, and lived in Turkish style.gigacope
>>11932447>roach making fun civilization and raping of othersKek and you still can't deny that your culture is persian because steppeshitters barely had one. It's okay toogay
You literally can't discuss the Safavids on /his/
>>11929046>>11929106Most people don’t know but Iran had a population of around 10-15m people (same as Italy) before the mongol invasions, Iran/the Iranian plateau is incredibly fertile land, the Iranian realm was and has always been the Iranian plateau and central asiaYes Iran’s population sadly was absolutely devastated, why do you think Iran kept getting overrun by foreign dynasties/rulers because the native indigenous population was absolutely devastated and only recovered in the mid 20th century, if the mongol invasions never happened, Iran’s current borders would stretch from Mesopotamia to the syr darya river lmao maybe even would’ve conquered siberia instead of Russia ffs fucking mongols, also central asia would’ve still stayed Iranic fullyIt’s sad how todays Greco-Anatolian and Iranic people and civilization was totally fucked over by arabs which led the fall of Iran’s central asian borders which let east asian horse fuckers in and then later the mongols fucking over Iranic people>>11929628Lmao there was never such a thing as ethnic “Azeris” even before turkification, Azerbaijan was inhabited by northwest Iranic people who were closest related to Kurds and either spoke varieties related to Kurdish/were varieties together with Kurdish and were basically the same people as Kurds and desu most definitely they considered themselves Kurds, the pre turkic dynasties of Azerbaijan were KurdsAlso for example Talysh people of northwest Iran are closest to Kurds and vice versa
>>11930755>genetically probably also>probablylol
>>11934518I wasn't sure so didn't want to make statements which might be false but thank you for the source.
>>11934724Yeah ik was a over exaggerated response wanted to kinda shock with the result lolKurds could literally be seen as direct descendants of the iron age Iranians/Median-Achaemenid Iranians, all Iranians though Iranians are like 90-95%+ iron age Iranian
>>11934897>all Iranians though Iranians are like 90-95%+ iron age IranianSo kurds have the highest % as Iron age iranians out of all iranians?Would kinda make sense when you consider that they lived in mountainous regions pretty much all their existence, which means they didn't have much contact with others by default even when the land around them was conqueredby foreign powers.
>>11934933Well eh not really, you know there’s huge misconceptions about Kurds, but the first and most important one would be that Kurds have always been a huge ethnic group (population wise) there’s always the idea spread that Kurds grew bigger at a late stage but demographic maps of 1800/1900s show them as a huge group, they are the 2nd biggest west Irani/Iranian group and were possibly even bigger while in Iran some throughout late history were assimilated (like pahlavi dynasty iirc times)Again azeris before turkification most possibly called/revered themselves as Kurdish (it’s possible) pre turkic azeri people were prob Talysh speakers or even closer version of Talysh to Kurdish languages/dialectsBtw before Persian really became the official language (idk I think during the pahlavi dynasty) there were many central and eastern dialects in Iran which were classified as “northwestern” but they sadly died out, they were supposedly very closely related to Kurdish especially, these dialects and Kurdish come from Pahlavi (Parthian)
>>11934933(2) the reason why there isn’t that much foreign influence in Iranian people and Iranic people is idk Irani/Iranic people don’t marry out of their people I honestly believe this the most, I especially believe in ancient times this was even stronger because this I what I’ve noticed we never needed outsider nor wanted
>>11935090thank you for all the info>these dialects and Kurdish come from Pahlavi (Parthian)yeah i know, it was a nothwestern iranian language like median, really unfortunate that no median or parthian scripts survivedhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Iranian_languages
The Safavids must have been based if internet fights like ITT happen when they're mentioned
>>11934493>fucked over by arabsSamanids weren't arab
>>11935090Kurds are Iranicized Turkmen
>>11935251>if fights like these happenwe wuzzing of roaches and the fights which break out cause of that is not really rare.They will claim anyone as turkic if one great great great great great grandmother was 1/4 turkmen, because otherwise their own cope that they are "turkish" would fall apart the moment they make a DNA test and get Tzatziki Kardashian as a result.
>>11935326>we wuzzing of roaches and the fights which break out cause of that is not really rare.I know I've noticed it in every Safavid thread for the past year
>>11935332It’s true. They are Kizilbas who got Ottoman’d by Sunni pro Ottoman Kurds (who used to be a tiny minority).
>>11935423>It’s true. They are Kizilbas who got Ottoman’d by Sunni pro Ottoman Kurds (who used to be a tiny minority).That's completely wrong. The Ottomans called in Kurd tribes to help them genocide the Qizilbash and then settled the Kurds in eastern Anatolia
>>11935435How do you think they genocdied it? The region was majority Turkmen Alevi. It turned Sunni Kurd because the defeated/genocided Turkmen were incorporated into Kurd tribes and assimilated.
>>11935454>the genocided Turkmen were incorporated into Kurd TribesWhat the fuck am I reading
>>11935459That’s how pre modern genocide works you retard. They kill/subjugate and take over.
>>11935459All those cities with Kurds today were built up by medieval and early modern Turkmen tribes. Artukluoglu, Dulkadiroglu, Qara Koyunlu, Aq Koyunlu, etc.
>>11935481>All those cities with Kurds today were built up by medieval and early modern Turkmen tribes. Artukluoglu, Dulkadiroglu, Qara Koyunlu, Aq Koyunlu, etc.Okay but people slaughter other people and move in all the time.
>>11935490Nope. They are a tribal society. They take your daughters and make your sons speak their tongue.
>>11935490You slaughter some and you assimilate most.
>>11935497Show me proof. The records just have the Ottomans launching brutal campaign in Eastern Anatolia. Your claims are meaningless. Are you a Turk/Kurd trying to sidestep the issue?
>>11935513Selim is considered Turkish Hitler by the Alevi Turkmen survivors for this. It’s in all the records. It was ongoing. The Celali revolts were also this same thing.
>>11935523>Turkish HitlerBad example. There are barely any jews in Europe. He didn't assimilate any
>>11935533Whatever. Not every genocide needs to fit this 20th c hitler model. The Alevi Turkmen genocide is the only genocide the Ottomans ever committed b t w
>Be Turks>replace your Turkmen brethren with Kurds whom you hate now for their secession tendenciesoof
>>11935549Yes. Ataturk was correct to try out to out-brainwash the Ottoman brainwashing of the Mountain Turks.
We would have had a Turkish belt uninterrupted from Bulgaria/Danube to Altai
People like Ataturk had read actual Ottoman history and understood what had been done. Retard Westoids think he was le assimilating them. Nope. He called Circassian Circassians. He knew the Kurds were Ottoman’d Turkmen brainwashed to be pro Ottoman in every way.
>>11935576>He knew the Kurds were Ottoman’d Turkmen brainwashed to be pro Ottoman in every way.Ironic since you're displaying your own brainwashing
>>11935590It’s a fact. What do you want me to say? Maybe Iran Kurds are different but the Turkey and Iraq Kurds are former Turkmen.
>>11935592>Maybe Iran Kurds are different but the Turkey and Iraq Kurds are former Turkmen.that makes no sense. Kurdish Tribes lived right next to Anatolia they could easily be brought in. They are kurds not brainwashed Turkmen. That makes no fucking sense at all
>>11935598There is a long border there that the ottomans and Safavids used to decide who gets to stay. Sunni vs Shia. The Kurds are Sunni. The Turkmen Alevi are Shia.
I like how Persia have a unique symbol in the Lion and Sun. Way more cultured than the rest of bug brain Muzzies with their crescent
This Turk-Persian shitflinging is really funny to me. Like watching two retards fight to the death
>>11935846>Lion and SunIt's just a stand in for Ali
>>11929046Safavids were morons that destroyed the bloodline of Sassanids in Tabaristan and the last remaining remnants of Zoroastrians, which some scholars estimated were 20% of Iran's total population at that time.I don't give a fuck what they were racially. It doesn't matter when they did a good job of destroying Persian identity and alienating us from Eastern Iranian brothers. Either remaining Hanafi Sunni or reverting to Zoroastrianism would have served geopolitical aspirations better in the long-run. I'm getting tired of 4chan's autism for race. That doesn't mean I like dumb SJW inclusive diversity fags either.
>>11936080>destroyed the bloodline of Sassanids in Tabaristandestroyed the bloodline of Sassanid royalty in Tabaristan*
>>11936080Damn just what this thread needed the resident Zoroastrian larper
>>11929046What centuries of "brutal" conquest are you talking about? After the Khwarazmians, a Persianized Turkic dynasty that ruled Persia and most of territorial Iranian hinterlands, the Mongols and later Ilkhanate were relatively passive. It wasn't until a brief period of time after the Ilkhanate started to regress that the Timurids did any significant damage to Iranian lands and then the Safavids shortly after showed up.>>11929106The myth that the Mongols wiped out "1/3rd to 2/3rds" of the entire Persian population is widely over-exaggerated and has little basis. There is no one denying the Mongols did kill a LOT of people in Persia but it was nowhere near that level outside of hearsay of some later Persian historians writing quite awhile later.
>>11936138Damn the Mongol Internet Defence Force is real? What did you watch John Green or did you read Weatherford?
>>11936158I don't like the Mongols, bro. I think they are despicable, a disgusting race of steppe-niggers who did more to harm human civilization then help enlighten it. But the claim that they wiped out 60% to 70% of Persia's population during their war with the Khwaramazians is bullshit.
>>11936166>But the claim that they wiped out 60% to 70% of Persia's population during their war with the Khwaramazians is bullshit.It's not though. The claim doesn't from medieval persian histories it comes from modern estimates and that estimate is that Iran didn't recover to it's pre mongol population level until the 20th century
>>11936134Why do non-Iranians always feel like saying what's best for Iran? Why don't you fuck off?I hate all of this recent attention to Iran. Just fuck off. Iranian hospitality is gay as fuck, and I hope we adopt the coldness and aloofness of Slavs in the future.
>>11936196as an eastern iranian i feel your pain. these guys foremost knowledge on our culture or people come from wikipedia and i don't blame them it's just the lack of content available in english. the least they could do is not talk on the matters that don't concern them.
>>11936196>>11936245No one gives a shit about either of you. If someone has an interest in something they'll make a thread about. Go whine somewhere else
>>11936258No one gives a shit about you either. If you have an actual argument to give, then provide one. Calling me a Zoroastrian LARPer is not an argument.Also, I claimed it would have been better for Iran to remain either Hanafi Sunni or revert to Zoroastrianism. Pamiri Tajiks and Yaghnobis are technically the original Iranians, so it makes sense to follow them. So long as Iran is not united with Eastern Iranians, it will remain incomplete.Imo, Iranian identity as a whole has been a failure due to historical amnesia and cognitive dissonance, such as picking up Shia which is stupider than non-extremist forms of Sunnism.
>>11936275>delves into genetic autismYou're just making yourself look more retarded
>>11936281It's not about genetics.The Shahnameh and various other folklore record that people of Turan or Eastern Iranian ethnic groups like Tajiks are more ancient than Western Iranian Persians.For much of history, western and eastern Iran were on an ethnocultural continuum.The Safavids destroyed such a continuum to more effectively mobilize forces against Ottomans by adopting the minority Twelvers Shia sect. There may have been short-term benefits, but in the long-run, it is biting Iran in the ass.Hanafi Sunni would have been better for Iran's geopolitical aspirations in the long-run.If Iran were Hanafi, it would have been easier to get more militia against Israel since them having a nuclear monopoly is not within their interests.
>>11936146Bro it seems he is a poet and a politician. Add those together and you do the math.
>>11936384What do you mean?
>>11936442Have yourself a think and figure it out pal.
>>11936080Oh yeh cause those eastern iranian people like pashtuns and tajiks are doing so good. Literally shia islam is the reason there is country that is called iran. Otherwise in iran every different ethnicity would have their own nation. Be happy that you arent like the taliban or the tajik mujahids.
>>11935592Unironically a roach schizo, take your meds now
>>11929046it still blows my mind that the Iranians got raped so hard by the Mongols and Timur that their population numbers did not recover until the 18th/19th century (it's been years since I read the source in question) and there is virtually no discussion of that in the West. I only learned about as a small aside in a source related to a class about Jewish History, and I do appreciate the irony there.My understanding, and I'm not an Iranian history buff so I may be off the mark, it the Safavids benefited from the major political fragmentation in Iran post Timurids, and they benefited from embracing Shiite islam as the state religion gaining the support of Shiite religious orders and lay people. and they basically hung on by the skin of their teach for a century and really were saved by Abbas I reforms
>>11935423>>11935435>>11935454Lol imagine being this braindead spreading mongol propaganda even on /his/ you guys came from east asia/mongolia with nothing, no culture, nothing>>11935481LOL how can a people who live in tents and still are nomads understand anything about city planning, architecture and agriculture? The Kurds were there before you mongols even entered central asia lol, it was Kurdish dynasties who built those cities>>11935598It’s total bullshit, Kurds have literally no turkic ancestryKurds did not get settled by mongol ottomans, they were there even before the mongols invaded central asia, Iranic presence in east Anatolia and Mesopotamia exists since the iron age
>>11930706>Birth rate collapses immediately after the war with Iraq endsHuh weird, what was the reason?
With this subject brought up, can we also discuss the 'Shirley Myth'?
>>11938216Promotion of bieth control. Seriously
>>11937436>it the Safavids benefited from the major political fragmentation in Iran post TimuridsIsmail had to beat these guys first. He did this easily and gained a shit ton of territory.
>>11938100Kurd literally means mountain bandit and the first use of the term was when the Parthians called Ardashir a kurd. It was a literal insult. It came to describe an ethnicity in the middle ages. Besides controlling vast territories as part of an Empire doesn't mean that there's an "iranic" presence there
>>11938694Lmao fuck off you ugly flat faced mongol, the etymology of “Kurd” is unknown, it was Persian ultra nationalists who propagated this iircLmao you clearly don’t know shit about genetic history, Mesopotamia and “east Anatolia” was originally inhabited by neolithic Iranians and later chalcolithic Iranians