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File: Flag_of_Greece.svg.png (1 KB, 600x400)
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How accurate is the claim that large parts of mainland Greece was depopulated in the middle ages and it was resettled by Slavs? Did many Slavs settle in Greece historically? How big is the Slavic footprint in Greece?
>>
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>>11591318
It's refuted by primary sources and population genetics, even after the expulsion of Slavs from northern Greece, and the re-settling of Pontians (genetically, no IE DNA), Mainland Greeks still score over 40% in Slavic aDNA). Also, calling it "settlement" isn't honest, it was a largely violent, genocidal conquest: "(...) “That same year, being the third after the death of king Justin, was famous also for the invasion of an accursed people, called Slavonians (Sclavenes), who overran the whole of Greece, and the country of the Thessalonians, and all Thrace, and captured the cities, and took numerous forts, and devastated and burnt, and reduced the people to slavery, and made themselves masters of the whole country, and settled in it by main force, and dwelt in it as though it had been their own without fear. And four years have now elapsed, and still, because the king is engaged in the war with the Persians, and has sent all his forces to the East, they live at their ease in the land, and dwell in it, and spread themselves far and wide as far as God permits them, and ravage and burn and take captive. And to such an extent do they carry their ravages that they have even ridden up to the outer wall of the city, and driven away all the king’s herds of horses, many thousands in number, and whatever else they could find. And even to this day, being the year 895 (A. D. 584), they still encamp and dwell there, and dwell in peace in the Roman territories, and lead captive and slay and burn: and they have grown rich in gold and silver, and herds of horses, and arms, and have learned to fight better than the Romans, (...)"- John of Ephesus
>>
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>>11591334
Even islanders score in Slavic aDNA, and we have Medieval reports of Slavs invading Crete as well.
>>
>>11591334
>>11591337
It's possible that the Greeks samples we have aren't representative for the majority of ancient Greeks, though.
>>
>>11591345
These are regional averages, not individual samples, they also score in Slavic Y-DNA, I2a1b-Din, and R1a, although they don't include specific, E1b mutations and SNPs that are found only among Slavs, but not to digress.
>>
>>11591318
Slavs immigrated to Greece and populate the mountains and the caves when the army was away fighting. When the Byzantine army returned they either relocated many of them to Anatolia (see blonde Turks) either forcefully converted them to Christianity and integrate them. In any case, their footprint was very small.
>>
>>11591368
>their footprint was very small
I don't think so. It's probably between 15-30% of modern Greek ancestry. 30% for continental Greece and 15% for islands.
>>
>>11591373
source dude trust me
>>
>>11591368
You're delusional >>11591334, >>11591337, >>11591352, and all primary sources state they conquered Greece, not migrated to it.

They're also more Greek than you since you set foot in Greece for the first time when Turks dropped you in the Aegean sea in 1923-4, Pontian "Greek".

>relocated many of them to Anatolia
You're referring to Neboulos' Slavs, who were military colonists fighting for Rome, and were only numbered in 20000, whereas hundreds of thousands of Slavs were present in Greece.
>>
>>11591373
There's this early medieval sample buried with Germanics from Germany. Some of these Germanics had Byzantine artifacts, so this guy could've been a Byzantine slave or someone like that.

Distance to: DEU_MA_o
0.04368521 Italian_Lazio
0.04464901 Italian_Apulia
0.04565635 Italian_Basilicata
0.04626835 Italian_Campania
0.04687384 Greek_Laconia
0.04687996 Italian_Abruzzo
0.04694259 Italian_Molise
0.04895346 Greek_Izmir
0.05036765 Greek_Peloponnese
0.05078834 Italian_Calabria

Could be mixed, though.


Target: Greek_Thessaly
Distance: 2.9153% / 0.02915266
69.6 DEU_MA_o
30.4 Polish


Target: Greek_Peloponnese
Distance: 2.9825% / 0.02982478
74.6 DEU_MA_o
25.4 Polish


Target: Greek_Laconia
Distance: 3.4617% / 0.03461657
80.2 DEU_MA_o
19.8 Polish
>>
>>11591386
Every Y-DNA and aDNA study to dare, barring the recent Greek one, which is heavily criticized for its conclusion that there is no Slavic input in Greece, which is contradictory to history and molecular biology.
>>
>>11591390

Target: Greek_Thessaly
Distance: 2.2154% / 0.02215437
62.8 GRC_Mycenaean
37.2 Polish


Target: Greek_Peloponnese
Distance: 2.4654% / 0.02465421
67.0 GRC_Mycenaean
33.0 Polish


Target: Greek_Macedonia
Distance: 2.3275% / 0.02327527
59.0 GRC_Mycenaean
41.0 Polish


Target: Greek_Laconia
Distance: 3.0847% / 0.03084681
72.0 GRC_Mycenaean
28.0 Polish
>>
>>11591410
Slav’d
>>
Why do haplotrannies think that by slapping numbers out of their ass with no source whatsoever makes them look smart somehow and their arguments valid?
>>
>>11591424
It's zodiac signs for feminine men
>>
>>11591373
Well until you bring me a source that says that Slavic immigration had any significant impact on Greece we'll have to go with what scientists say

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/08/greeks-really-do-have-near-mythical-origins-ancient-dna-reveals
>>
>>11591424
>sources of studies present in the images
Amerimutt attention span.

>>11591430
Post jaw.
>>
>>11591334
>>11591337
>source: TurkisDNAproject
>>
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>>11591436
>https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/08/greeks-really-do-have-near-mythical-origins-ancient-dna-reveals
Your ancestors stepped foot in Greece in 1924, Pontianoglu.

>>11591397 >>11591387 >>11591352 you were literally provided with images that contain sources to a number of Y-DNA studies, which also shows Slavs raped you so hard you have anywhere between 31-40% Slavic paternal lineages.
>>
>>11591442
The results are standardized, regardless of who posts them.
>>
The only Slavic footprint in Greece comes from all the eastern European stripers and hookers who live and work there and the drinks Greeks buy to them.
>>
>>11591334
>I am more Hellen than the """Turkiest""" Turk on average
Thessalian Chads stay winning
>>
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>>11591507
You live in a trailer-trash home.
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>>11591516
I often go on vacations to Greece and I know this stuff. Prostitution is legal there so I've got to know Slavic culture from up close.

AMA
>>
>>11591608
what diseases did you contract, how depressed and worn out did they look
>>
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>>11591608
>>11591622
This is irrelevant, since Slavic DNA input is ancestral, and mediated only by males, thanks to the 6th and 7th century Slavic conquests.

>Slavic culture
Western, primarily Germanic women are textbook whores.
>>
>>11591318
Depopulated? No. It was nothing on the scale of the migrations into Illyria which pushed many Romans into the coast and majority got slowly replaced by the Slavs. In Greece the Slavic warlords had to cooperate far more with the Byzantines and ruled as Archons. There was some number of it, Constantine VII straight up says that ALL of Greece was Slavicized but he happens to also have an agenda and vendetta against a certain Greek man.
>>
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>>11591512
"Turkic" is misleading since Medieval Turkic populations were also only partially East Asian. Modern Turks score only 10.27% in East Asian DNA.
>>
>>11591622
They are clean, depending on the place. If you see any Pakistanis waiting in the hall then that means that the place is unsanitary. Otherwise, the madam chases away all foreigners. But I don't go to brothels, I like to take call girls because I feel more relaxed having them in my place. Call girls get reviews and scores from the customers so they can't seem depressed cause they'll get a low score.
>>
>>11591693
>he admits to paying whores
Absolutely beta.
>>
>>11591334
>>11591337
Are we sure the "Slavic" DNA is simply that, Slavic? Could it not be residual similarities from Thracians, Illyrians, and Dacians, who were assimilated by the forebearers of the South Slavs?
>>
>>11591731
Thre's a bunch of iron age Balkan samples, they don't resemble modern Balkanites. Slavs certainly left their mark. I'm waiting for a bigger study about iron age and Roman Balkans, because now there's very few samples from that era.
>>
>>11591334
>>11591337
Thoughts on this study?
>https://www.nature.com/articles/ejhg201718
>>
>>11591731
It's distinguished from the native BGR_IA, HRV_IA, which are Illyrian, Dacian, and Thracian samples. Matter of fact, the Slavic invasion is the reason why these ancestries are found in some contemporary Greek populations, because they were refugees fleeing from them all the way from Illyria and Thracia proper.
>>
>>11591748
Let me read it, first, it may take some while, but I'll deign you a response.
>>
>>11591748
It's based on modern Greeks making it pretty much worthless.
>>
>the Slavic conquest of Greece
>>
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>>11591664
>not even 15% East Eurasian at best
This just makes these drawings more embarrassing...
>>
>>11591777
After every Turkic conquest they'd replenish their numbers by assimilating the conquered group and continue onwards so by the time they got to Anatolia the Turkic conquerors were heavy mutts with considerable Iranian admixture
>>
>>11591773
Tons of Greek prostitutes in western Europe as well, Dimitrios

>A study has found young women in Greece are offering sex for the price of a sandwich, an indicator of the austerity in the country.

>Sociology professor Gregory Laxos and his team at Panteion University in Athens found that young Greek women had now overtaken Eastern European women as the dominant group in the prostitution industry, metro.co.uk reported.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world/greek-girls-selling-sex-for-the-price-of-a-sandwich-study/story-JlVvAyx1FrT5x0ISAAdXaO.html
>>
>hey guys have I shown you my haplogroup chart?
>>
>>11591772
How so? The study indicates a lack of large amounts of Slavic DNA in Peloponnesian Greeks? The Peloponnese also didn't experience any settlement from Pontian or Asia Minor Greeks in the 20th Century.
>>
>>11591797
Because it assumes that the original Greeks resembled modern ones.
>>
>all hail Peruna
>>
>>11591334
>>11591337
>Turkishdnaproject
lmao
>>
>>11591777
checked
>>
>>11591805
If they found little to no Slavic DNA in Peloponnesian Greeks, who the fuck else would they resemble? Maniots are also used as a baseline as they're even a step further removed from other Greeks for their almost singularly archaic DNA.
>>
>>11591334
>It's refuted
You got your words mixed bud? Your points attempt to prove Slavic admixture, not disprove it.
>>
>>11591820
There's a lot of Slavic ancestry in Peloponnesian Greeks. It's just a delusion. Maniots are also mixed. They should use island Greeks as they seem to be closest to ancient ones. Greek Kos and Dodecanese constantly show to be closer to ancient samples than modern peninsular Greeks.
>>
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>>11591773
>>11591791
>>11591397 >>11591387 >>11591352
Y-DNA (read, paternal lineage) tell a different story, buying a prostitute to cope with being the result of Slavic men raping Greek women is counterproductive because as the descendant of Slavic rapists, you're just repeating the act in contemporary times, except this time, you're paying for it, which is even worse. If you're Greek, and you got I2a1b-Din or R1a, your ancestor wasn't called Petros, but Radun, and he raped Persida on top of Petros' corpse.

>>11591748
It's a revisionist study, what they essentially did is evaluate all Italians+all Frenchmen+all Spaniards + East Slavs to make up that percentage, while ignoring the fact that East Slavs didn't partake in the invasion, but South Slavs. In short, it's a study based solely on modern PCA, and you'll notice that in Greek studies, they only use specific mainland Greek populations like the Maniots, and islanders like Cretans to base their studies on because they're the lowest Slavic-scoring modern Greeks, and virtually no one else, but that's disingenuous because Maniots and Cretans form a mere portion of Greece's population. Even when they publish Y-DNA studies, they only publish studies from the aforementioned populations, whereas all non-Greek studies always evaluate all regions, and post-Y-DNA results from all regions, thus the differentiation in results.
>>
Using all post-neolithic Greek samples and Rome Imperial. Polish is a proxy for Slavic ancestry.

Target: Greek_Thessaly
Distance: 0.9046% / 0.00904615
30.4 GRC_Helladic_MBA
28.6 ITA_Rome_Imperial
23.2 Polish
8.2 GRC_Cycladic_EBA
8.0 GRC_Mycenaean
1.6 GRC_Helladic_EBA

Target: Greek_Peloponnese
Distance: 0.8543% / 0.00854270
45.0 ITA_Rome_Imperial
32.0 Polish
15.8 GRC_Cycladic_EBA
6.0 GRC_Minoan_Lassithi
1.2 GRC_Minoan_Odigitria_low_res

Target: Greek_Macedonia
Distance: 0.9783% / 0.00978271
35.6 Polish
33.2 ITA_Rome_Imperial
13.6 GRC_Cycladic_EBA
11.4 GRC_Helladic_MBA
6.2 GRC_Minoan_EBA

Target: Greek_Laconia
Distance: 1.6322% / 0.01632187
52.4 ITA_Rome_Imperial
26.2 Polish
12.0 GRC_Minoan_Odigitria_low_res
9.4 GRC_Cycladic_EBA

Target: Greek_Kos
Distance: 1.2473% / 0.01247333
95.2 ITA_Rome_Imperial
3.6 Polish
1.2 GRC_Cycladic_EBA

Target: Greek_Izmir
Distance: 1.0678% / 0.01067758
59.0 ITA_Rome_Imperial
22.4 Polish
10.4 GRC_Mycenaean
4.6 GRC_Cycladic_EBA
3.6 GRC_Minoan_Lassithi

Target: Greek_Dodecanese
Distance: 1.2757% / 0.01275655
98.8 ITA_Rome_Imperial
1.2 Polish

Target: Greek_Crete
Distance: 0.9103% / 0.00910284
87.6 ITA_Rome_Imperial
11.4 Polish
1.0 GRC_Cycladic_EBA

Target: Greek_Central_Macedonia
Distance: 0.9549% / 0.00954897
41.4 Polish
35.2 ITA_Rome_Imperial
11.4 GRC_Minoan_Lassithi
10.2 GRC_Cycladic_EBA
1.8 GRC_Mycenaean
>>
>>11591850
>>11591851
Is Slavic admixture the reason why, Greeks today are such an irrelevant and retarded people?
>>
>>11591797
The study only analyzed SPECIFIC Peloponnesian Greeks, the Maniots, who only inhabit the southern part of the peninsula, to substantiate their non-argument regarding THE WHOLE Greek nation. While Maniots score lowly in Slavic input, they're still mixed, just with other populations, but less mixed than the average mainland Greek.

>>11591817
Yes, and? Run a G25 on all Mainland Greek populations, add islanders as well, and you'll get the same results, just more detailed.

>>11591812
Remember, 31-40% Slavic Y-DNA in mainland Greeks.
>>
>>11591860
No, it's because of Anatolian/Pontian input that arrived during the 1920s.
>>
>>11591872
Probably a combo of the 2.
>>
>>11591872
Slavs are also subhumans. Just look at place like Serbia or Ukraine. Only Slavs doing good are the ones with Germanic DNA like Czech.
>>
>>11591881
Czech have Celtic dna, not Germanic.
>>
>>11591851
Rome Imperial makes it better, I'm guessing some eastern gene flow happened in Greece at some point. The very ancient samples like Early Helladic, Middle Helladic and Mycenean don't really exist on the same cline as modern Greeks.
I'm guessing that something maybe happened during the orientalizing period? I don't think it's something recent because most of the Imperial Roman samples were probably Greeks or Hellenized mena.
>>
>>11591888
After Alexander's conquest of the Middleast, Greek men from Greece and Italy intermarried with local women and became Cypriot like. The Hellenized mutt spawn spread in all Mediterranean countries and delete with locals forming the Imperial Romans.
>>
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>>11591881
Serbia was bombed to the Stone Age, whereas Ukraine is being bombed and Neo-colonized to the Stone Age as we speak, and speaking of subhumans, while being either an Amerimutt or a dilapidated Western, is peak irony.

Westerners export bombing runs and degeneration, whereas Slavs export superior human resources, we both know who is worse.
>>
>>11591918
The only thing Slavs export is call girls
>>
>>11591925
We're talking of legal immigration, not women enslaved for prostitution. Slavic immigrants are in 8/10 cases males and are running a train on natives in every EU state they've migrated to, especially in the Netherlands, where Yugoslav and Polish Desperadoes do as they see fit.

https://www.livescience.com/375-surprise-1-25-dads-real-father.html
Amerimutts are the cucked nation in the world and the state itself enforces cucking on its men: "The United States has historically imposed a strong presumption of marital paternity and has also imposed barriers to paternity challenges once paternity has been legally established. Since the advent of DNA testing, laws and guidelines have been proposed or enacted that may allow for a paternity challenge by a legal father who later determines he is not a child's biological father, or by a biological father who learns that somebody else has been named on a child's birth certificate as the child's father.[31]". Your father isn't your father, but the mailman.
>>
>>11591944
Who's enslaved lol. Slav girls abandon their countries and go to suck dick in the west because their "men" can't provide them with basic necessities or protection. Others just want to marry a man who's not drunk 24/7.
>>
>>11591850
>>11591867
>We sampled all the districts of Peloponnese
>and also focused on two culturally distinct subpopulations, the Tsacones and the Maniots.
They clearly outline they don't use just Maniots, they say they additionally did alongside populations all over the Peloponnese.
I don't think its disingenous or surprising the extreme south of Greece were Slavic presence was removed with remarkable speed has little Slavic presence, when compared to Greek Macedonia which even today has actual Slavs in the region who'd been Hellenized after the Balkan Wars and during the Macedonian Struggle, or Thessaly which has experienced other migrations, such as Vlachs to the region.
>>11591867
>to substantiate their non-argument regarding THE WHOLE Greek nation.
The study refers specifically to the Peloponnese, you are the one who has interpreted this as a denial of Slavic DNA in all of Greece, which is wrong.
>>11591872
You're not wrong, but its not to do with DNA, rather cultural. Urban Anatolian Greeks were the embodiement of merchantile bourgeoisie, and largely supported Venezelism in Greece, which put further strain on the traditionally Peloponnesian dominated 'Old Greece' of conservatives, already bitterly divided since the National Schism. Pontics are clannish bumpkins used to turn Greek Macedonia from a Greek plurality into majority and clash with local Greek Macedonians at times.
>>
>>11591872
> it's because of Anatolian/Pontian input that arrived during the 1920s.

So, before that Greek people were relevant?
Seems legit.
>>
>>11591812
>>11591791
>>11591773

Least butthurt GrecoSlav. Your grand^6mother was raped by Ivan, probably she liked it. If you do fuck Slavs whoresm you probably are fucking your distant cousin.
>>
Why does this thread reek of slavic insecurity? holy shit
>>
>>11591867

>Yes, and? Run a G25 on all Mainland Greek populations, add islanders as well, and you'll get the same results, just more detailed.

> whereas all non-Greek studies always evaluate all regions, and post-Y-DNA results from all regions, thus the differentiation in results.

I guess it would be best to not relly on Turkish studies either, if you don't want to use Greek ones. Both sources are bias to me.
>>
>>11592046
The study used Maniots and Cretans, not other populations from the Peloponnese, and even pulled PCA gigacopes with Slavs that never partook in the invasion to "substantiate" their premise.

> the extreme south of Greece where Slavic presence was removed with remarkable speed has little Slavic presence
It is because it doesn't pertain to populations from the entire peninsula, and we know for a fact that the Slavs of Peloponessus formed a substantial portion of the peninsula's population during the Middle Ages, the Ezeritai and the Melingoi would survive as separate, nominally vassalized entities to the late 15th century, their modern-day descendants score roughly 50/50 in Early Slavic and native DNA.

>study refers
The study addresses Fallmerayer's theories regarding the whole body of the Greek landmass with a study based on a mere portion of Greece's population, so it is definitely disingenuous.
>>
>>11592074
>Why does this thread reek of Slavic insecurity? holy shit
You sound like a woman.

>>11592085
True, but others have posted G25 runs, and they're roughly the same as ANADOGLOU's, and more detailed, divided by region.

>>11592049
Greece was strong, and was initially winning the Greek-Turkish War, but ran out of ammunition.
>>
>>11591851
Using Polish and Greek colonists from Iberia.


Target: Greek_Thessaly
Distance: 1.8695% / 0.01869513
63.8 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
36.2 Polish


Target: Greek_Peloponnese
Distance: 2.3677% / 0.02367691
68.4 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
31.6 Polish


Target: Greek_Macedonia
Distance: 1.9981% / 0.01998105
59.6 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
40.4 Polish

It's pretty much the same. Yeah, I think 20-30% Slavic ancestry in Greeks is about right.

Distance to: Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2:I8215
0.02239145 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
0.03041607 BGR_IA
0.03144718 GRC_Mycenaean
0.03465425 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o
0.03962671 DEU_MA_o
0.03964584 GRC_Cycladic_EBA
0.04291818 BGR_Krepost_N
0.04307468 HUN_MA_Szolad_o1
0.05206371 ITA_Rome_Imperial
0.05318556 GRC_Minoan_Lassithi

Closest populations to Empuries. All samples identified as pre-Slavic Greeks or related to them. Mycenaean, East Med Preanesti outlier, Byzantine outlier from Germany, Greek-like Roman slaves from Lombard cemeteries (Szolad outlier), imperial Romans.
>>
>>11592126

Fun fact : Pontic Greeks are stereotyped as retards in Greece. Literally, if you do something really stupid in Greece, the first question they gonna ask you is " Are you from Pontiac ?"

I guess it further proves your points.
>>
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>>11592118
>The study used Maniots and Cretans, not other populations from the Peloponnese
This is Figure1 from the study you supposedly read. It clearly outlines Peloponnesian samples from outside of Mani. It doesn't look at any Cretan samples.
>PCA gigacopes with Slavs that never partook in the invasion to "substantiate" their premise.
It uses Poles, Ukrainians, Russians, and Belarusians as a baseline for Slavic DNA since South Slavs have other foreign admixture and these groups have far fewer bar some Uralic admixture in Russians (shown to be the furthest anyway).
>The study addresses Fallmerayer's theories regarding the whole body of the Greek landmass
Fallnerayer's theory, regarded only the Peloponnese, which he used as as a conclusion for all of Greece. The name of his work is "Geschichte der Halbinsel Morea während des Mittelalters", translating to the 'History of the Morea Peninsula in the Middle Ages", Morea being the medieval name for the Peloponnese. His theory was based on Peloponnesians being descended from Slavs, and the study shows they are not, even those non-Maniots.
>>
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>>11592118
>a substantial portion of the peninsula's population during the Middle Ages, the Ezeritai and the Melingoi would survive as separate, nominally vassalized entities to the late 15th century, their modern-day descendants score roughly 50/50 in Early Slavic and native DNA.
The Ezeritai disappear from sources after the 900s and the Melingoi after the 1330s. So admittedly, the Melingoi persisted for some time, however as they settled on the western slopes of the Tagytos Mountains. If their 'descendants' were 50/50 Slavic, they would cluster closer to other Slavs, but do not.
>>
>>11592160
I do a lot of translations for Greek businessmen here, all mentioned at least one example of where a Pontian attempted to scam them.
>>
>>11592126
>but ran out of ammunition.
The change in leadership harmed both the officer corps, and external relations as the British withdrew their support due to the Pro-Central Powers King Constantine being in power again, leading the French to cut their losses. Additionally the Soviets and Italians had been funding the Turks for sometime.
>>
Remember when Turkish DNA Project was seething at ancestry.com, Greeks, Armenians and Jews on their Twitter
I do LOL
>>
>>11592203
The whole issue is silly. I hope that in the future these companies will use ancient samples rather than new ones. Saying that Turks are 40% Greek and 60% West Asian means nothing.
>>
>>11592203
I just looked this up and later found this gem
>Yannis Vasilis Yaylalı, born Ibrahim YaylalıYannis was a former Turkish ultra-nationalist that was proud of his enmity towards Kurds and other indigenous peoples of Asia Minor.
>However, he soon discovered he was actually Greek, became Christian and then became an activist for minorities in Turkey despite originally joining the Turkish Army to kill them

Holy shit
>>
>>11592216
>born Ibrahim YaylalıYannis

How did he not know he was Greek with that name? Is it a parody?
>>
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>>11592203
This?
>>
>>11592223
It was Ibrahim Yaylalı, accidentally deleted my comma and space.
>>
>>11591318
> How big is the Slavic footprint in Greece?
0-10%. Greeks have changed little since ancient times.
>>
>>11592240
Delusions.
>>
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>>11592177
It used Slavs that never partook in the invasion as its premise regarding plotting, and neither Ukrainians, Belarusians, and Russians are baselines for Slavic DNA, because they have substantial Baltic input, which varies from a 1/4th to a 1/3rd, so that is definitely not "fewer". Either way, they should've used South Slavs, who are the direct descendants of the Sclavenes who've conquered and colonized SE Europe and continental Greece, the study specifically refers to Maniots as being the representative Peloponnesian sample, and Cretans are mentioned on the basis of also having low Slavic input, and in general, Greek-led DNA studies only include Maniots and Cretan for that very reason, and, I've seen the image, but the image isn't representative of the data, because if other populations of the peninsula were involved, then the peninsula would definitely score notably higher in Slavic input.

>>11592180
The Chronicle of Monemvasia and DAI mention these Slavs inhabiting a larger territory on the Peloponnesus.

>>11592180
You don't know how clustering works, Sclavenes mixed with wildly genetically different populations, which draws them apart from other Slavs, who've historically mixed with other, exceptionally North-shifted populations, and I'll try to find results of the people I've referred to (they're all males who tested their Y-DNA, most were I2a1b-Din, one was R1a-M458), and you'll see for yourself. The study is not reliable, these Slavs did not disappear genetically.
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>>11592227
Yeah lol
Also this
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>>11592227
And also this
Literally calling specific Greeks Armenian and Slavic LARPers in a Twitter chimpout lol
https://twitter.com/TurkDNAProject/status/1410966262361079810
>>
>>11592189
Unfortunate, what could've been a restored Greece was replaced with the most degenerate nation in Eurasia.

>>11592203
Yes.

>>11592240
Delusional.
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>>11592227
How is that information not relevant to population genetics, when it caused a population migration?
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>>11592269
lmao aren't ashkenazoids like half levantine genetically??
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>>11592266
Not him, but what i get from what you are saying is, that w/e slavic admixture greeks have came from south slavs who were themselves mixed with various balkanites, so ukranians and belarussians etc. arent a good base for slavic dna cause they mixed with other, more northern people?
>>
>>11592227
Forgot this one too
Calling Armenians Assyrian LARPers as well
https://twitter.com/TurkDNAProject/status/1399139646639120387
>>
>>11592304
Thing is, Slavs invaded and colonized Greece in the 6th and early 7th centuries, whereas mixing between Slavs and the natives would occur decades later for the first recorded time.

aren't a good base for Slavic DNA cause they mixed with other, more northern people
Essentially, yes, Although the Polish are the opposite because they're the textbook Slavic reference since they score 85-93% in Slavic DNA. So, when one model is based on modern populations, he should either Poles - the textbook Slavic reference, or any nearby Slavic populations who've had established relations with the non-Slavs in question. Here is how Greek regions score when one uses Poles as a reference, they score almost entirely the same in Slavic input.
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>>11592328
Turks are out of their minds, they LARP as Genghis Khan's sons, whereas their most East Asian-scoring region - Southwest, is only 25% East Asian, while other regions are barely East Asian.
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>>11592266
>and neither Ukrainians, Belarusians, and Russians are baselines for Slavic DNA
What about the Poles, who I've seen other posters use as baselines in this thread? I do agree South Slavs should've been included however, as it would've made the entire study more conclusive.
>the study specifically refers to Maniots as being the representative Peloponnesian sample
No, it specifically refers to them to showcase what Greeks 'lacking' any Slavic DNA would look like, and comparing that to the rest of the various Peloponnesian samples. Crete is mentioned only twice in the study, and only in passing as it says they're closer to Near-Easterners, along with the Dodecanese.
>I've seen the image, but the image isn't representative of the data
What other populations of the Peloponnese are not covered? >>11592177 The image here shows a comprehensive geographic spread of the inhabited ares of the Peloponnese.
>Chronicle of Monemvasia
The Chronicle of Monemvasia only covers until 805AD, I said the Ezeritai disappear after the 900s, and the Melingoi after 1330, though not as late as you said, being the 15th Century. Of course the Slavs would've inhabited a larger portion of the Peloponnese at this period as the re-Hellenization of the region was still ongoing. The Melingoi were reduced to the western slopes of the Tagytos by the 1200s, as referred to in the Chronicle of the Morea.
>and DAI
Could you also find this? Or give me the full name?
>most were I2a1b-Din, one was R1a-M458
E-V13 is dominant throughout Y-DNA in the Peloponnese, followed by J2-M172. I2-P37 is noticable in the North Peloponnese but trails behind the other two.

I'd like to clarify, I don't dispute Slavic DNA being present in Modern Greeks, just the amount of it, especially in the Peloponnese. Were we discussing Greek Macedonia, or even Thessaly, then I would not be surprised at significant portions of Slavic DNA, but this is not the case.
>>
>>11592338
whats the source for this image?
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>>11592352
E-V13 is surprisingly absent from ancient samples. So far all the Greek samples had J2 and G2a. Greek-related samples also had R1b.
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>>11592345
SAD!
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>>11592338
I think it's important to note a large number of Sklavenes were transported to Asia Minor under the reign of Empress Irene, referred to as Slavesians, and that the Peloponnese were later repopulated by Sicilian Greeks, Greeks of Magna Graecia, Asia Minor Greeks, and even Armenians in some cases.
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>>11592118
What was the cause of your mental illness?
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>>11591318
unfortunately this thread had been shitted up by svetovid and his bullshits no one ever reads
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>>11592370
Really? How ancient are we referring to, as I was familiar with E-V13 being associated with the Dorian migration.
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>>11592405
Well, we don't have any Dorian migration samples. Bronze Age samples are all J2 and G2a, Empuries sample is J2, the Greek-like Romans are also mostly J2, G2a, R1b, J1.

E1b-V13 shows up here and there in all kinds of populations. But it's rare.
>>
>>11592441
There's apparently some upcoming study about Roman Illyria and many samples are E1b according to leaks, but it hasn't been published anywhere yet.
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>>11592441
Right, apologies, I'd seen it hypothesized but hadn't seen any concrete studies.
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>>11592301
probably considering they look like this
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>>11592275
A lot of Turkish academic samples are kinda cherrypicked. Many have recent Circassian and Tatar ancestry.

Dodecad has Turkish DNA average from 23andme and those guys have barely 5% East Asian DNA.
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>>11592514
Ops wrong image.
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>>11592345
I know modern turks are like 10 % turkics but turkics were like 10 % east asian too
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>>11592352
Poles are excellent modern reference, because they score 65-93% in Slavic DNA, and are the most Slavic of Slavs genetically, and yes, I am aware that the study refers to Cretans and Maniots as examples of Greeks with low Slavic input, but based on >>11592338 >>11592266 G25 runs with academic samples, the inhabitants of the peninsula score substantially in Slavic input, whereas the study claims the opposite, so it's absolutely impossible for the study to have empirically included samples of all inhabitants, but merely that of Maniots, while providing a graph that includes presumed non-Maniots as well. And in general, Greek-made studies always use the results of Maniots and Cretans "as proof" that the average Greek has bare Slavic ancestry, which is categorically false, that is inherently revisionist.

> being the 15th Century
Ottomans mentioned them in the 15th century, it's just that ERE sources mention them for the last time in the 1330s, and in the DAI, they're just referred to as the Slavs of Peloponnesus, I'm definitely sure they're not mentioned by tribal name.

>E-V13 is dominant throughout Y-DNA in the Peloponnese
I'm aware of the regional Y-DNA average of every Greek region, but I was referring to individuals with these results, who've said to me they're paternally Melingoi.

>>11592353
It's a G25 run, it's extensively used in population to estimate aDNA (autosomal/ancient)
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>>11592549
The study did not use any ancient DNA. The authors just compared Greeks with modern populations and saw that they are closest to other Southern Europeans and not to Slavs like Poles and Ukrainians. From that they concluded that there must be very little Slavic DNA in Greece.
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>>11592575
Some plots from the study. They used samples from various locations in Greece, not just Maniots.
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>>11592383
Yes, that is true, a number of emperors had done the same, for reasons of state, naturally.

>>11592396
Svetovid's grasp of history, ethnography, and population DNA is vastly superior to the majority of people that frequent this site, but then again, the majority who frequent this site are Germaniggers, Turks, and Muttmericans, so the standards are very, very low.

>>11592387
My love for your thick mother, her thighs and ass sends ripples in reality as I'm slapping them.

>>11592370
>>11592405
>>11592441
Judging by the SNPs in Greece, they're definitely related to Arvanite migrations, although, I'd refrain from showing that to Albanians.

>>11592352
Also, here's a run with Bosnians as a reference, notice how Greek regions respond better to a South Slavic reference?
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>>11592549
>but I was referring to individuals with these results, who've said to me they're paternally Melingoi
lmao you must be trolling.
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>>11592575
Regardless of whether the study used ancient or modern DNA, the study is inherently revisionist and tendentious.

>>11592585
The graphs include names of other populations on the peninsula, yet the results do not reflect that, otherwise, they would score in notable Slavic input, as every G25 run on Greek regions, based on academic samples has proven to date.
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>>11592600
Not at all, they've shown me their Y-DNA results and their G25 runs, but either way, you've now seen Greek aDNA results divided by region, and they refute the study's conclusion.
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>>11592622
nice anecdotes. who the fuck knows what a melingos is lol.
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>>11592549
> so it's absolutely impossible for the study to have empirically included samples of all inhabitants, but merely that of Maniots, while providing a graph that includes presumed non-Maniots as well.
So from what I can gather, you're implying the study, which gathered samples from accross the Peloponnese, then ignored those samples and suplanted them with more Maniots and then just put pins on the map for non-Maniots? How could this be whe the samples from Deep Mani seperated enough from the rest of the population. I believe you're coping here.
The source clearly states
>Each dot corresponds to the origin of a participant.
Referring to the image >>11592177
There are 241 samples, with ~40 are from 'Deep Mani'.

>Ottomans mentioned them in the 15th century
Source? And what is the DAI you refer to? I'm yet to see a book with these initials or another source supporting your claim, and had asked for this information in my previous post.
> who've said to me they're paternally Melingoi.
I'm calling bullshit, there is no discernable 'Melingoi' group in Greece, nor one that believes they're descended from them.
>I'm aware of the regional Y-DNA average of every Greek region, but I was referring to individuals with these results

What are the academic samples used to make >>11592338 >>11592345 these? And how large are the sample sizes?
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>>11592668
>And what is the DAI you refer to?
this is what he is referring to
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Administrando_Imperio
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>>11592642
Melingoi*, and natives of Peloponnesus.
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>>11592700
>barbarian tries to correct me
nobody knows what a melingos is.
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>>11592599
What a coincidence. The least slavic admixed nations out of all Slavs are closer to the Greeks.
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>>11592599
>Arvanites
This is a whole other can of worms, which you'd have a far better leg to stand on.
> the study is inherently revisionist and tendentious
Here's a finding from this study on all Slavs
>The short genetic distance of South Slavs does not extend to populations throughout the whole Balkan Peninsula and they are differentiated from all Greek sub-populations that are not Macedonian Greek.
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4558026/
>>11592679
Thank you
>was written between 948 and 952.

>>11592549
Referring to your point on the DAI stating they inhabited a greater range
>He [Emperor Michael III] subdued and mastered all the Slavs and other insubordinates of the province of Peloponnesus, and only the Ezeritai and the Milingoi were left, towards Lacedaemonia and Helos
>And since there is there a great and very high mountain called Pentadaktylos, which runs like a neck a long distance out into the sea, and because the place is difficult, they settled upon the flanks of this same mountain, the Milingoi in one part, and in the other part the Ezeritai.
>Pentadaktylos
Until the 19th Century, the Taygetus which I referred to >>11592352 here, was referred to as the Pentadaktylos.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taygetus
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>>11592668
It is obvious that the study has either samples the whole peninsula, but only includes the results of Maniots, or they've entirely ignored the other inhabitants, and have only sampled Maniots, but added other populations on graphs to appear as if they've done nothing questionable. Given the tendentious nature of the study's premise in need of disproving Fallmerayer's thesis, it's understandable but ultimately revisionist. This is not the first or the last time geneticists manipulated studies to sustain a narrative in history and stately matters.

> I believe you're coping here
By taking my time to make G25 runs and substantiating my assessment with proof, I'm coping? Barring autosomal DNA and its G25 module, just according to the existence of Slavic Y-DNA on the Peloponnesus (I2a1b-Din and R1a), you have confirmation that the inhabitants of the peninsula will have notable Slavic input which persisted to this day - a direct rebuttal to the study's conclusion.

And DAI (De Administrando Imperio) spoke of Slavs from the Peloponnesus raiding towns and villages for loot and sheep, and every Greek regional average is made of hundreds of samples, I didn't use individual samples for these G25 runs.
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>>11592807
Lawl is that real?
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>>11592838
Sadly yes
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>>11591337
>early Slavic
you mean Macedonian right?
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>>11592797
I've always wondered why Balkan people's are so married to the idea that their populations have been the same forever. I partially get it's because of nationalist sentiment but these migrations were well documented by the Greeks / Byzantines. People were denying it so much we had to wait for genetic evidence to qualify what was already written in the past.

It blows my mind that Albanians are certain that they're the same people as the illyrians or that Bulgarians think they're identical to the Thracians despite there being endless steppe migrations into Bulgaria which are well documented.

It'd be like Americans claiming they're the same people as the native Americans just because they were born there.
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>>11592711
You're Pontian, LARPer, These Slavs are in Greece since the 6th century, whereas your Turkish ass learned Greek in elementary schools in the 1920s as grown men.

>>11592740
This doesn't tell us much, since the average South Slav scores anywhere between 55-70%, Bosnians are in the upper average, and even outscore Slovenes, and the run with "Bosnian" was provided to show that the percentage will inevitably increase if one uses South Slavs as a reference because they're the Slavs who've invaded the peninsula, but the conclusion is still the same - Mainland Greeks score substantially in Slavic DNA.

>have a far better leg to stand on
I've provided proof in the form of Y-DNA studies and G25 runs with regional averages, based on academic samples. You're welcome to think you don't score substantially in Slavic DNA, but it's simply not true. Most people here would tell you off after the first G25 run, and call you a greasy shitskin Turkspawn, I don't want to do that, so tone it down with the disingenuous remarks.

>Here's a finding from this study on all Slavs
Elena's study is years before the advent of G25 and other, more superior modules for studying aDNA, science progresses daily. in 2005, Everyone claimed I2a1b-Din is native to the peninsula, year, and years later, it was discovered that it was Proto/Early Slavic lineage, which specifically expanded from Western Ukraine and southern Poland.

And the paragraph you've greenlit states that only the Ezeritai and the Milingoi were the ones who were LEFT, that is proof for what I've said, that they've inhabited a larger territory in the past and that there were more of them, it also doesn't say they were deported, but just subdued, which in the context of ERE means Hellenized and Christianized.
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>>11592797
>It is obvious that the study has either samples the whole peninsula, but only includes the results of Maniots,
Please observe figure4 from the study, as I'd shown here >>11592180
>disproving Fallmerayer's thesis
His 'thesis' was already controversial and based on conjecture, and it was in specific reference to the Morea which he used to base his views on all of Greece. The study obviously refutes this by showing Morea has far fewer examples of heavy Slavic admixture needed to support this, ranging from 0.2% to 14.4%.
>just according to the existence of Slavic Y-DNA on the Peloponnesus (I2a1b-Din and R1a), you have confirmation that the inhabitants of the peninsula will have notable Slavic input which persisted to this day
I acknowledged Slavic input >>11592352 here, I reject the emphasis you place on its presence in the region.
And I ask, what data are you feeding into the G25 run, from which academic samples you allege?
>raiding towns and villages for loot and sheep
You claimed they inhabited a larger territory >>11592266, now you've changed this to them raiding larger territory rather than inhabit it.
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>>11592838
Yes, from 4 years ago.

>>11592842
I looked, and still, look infinitely better than you.

>>11592869
Yes, I find this resistance to the idea rather bizarre, especially in the case of Greek themselves, because all that we know of the Slavic invasion COMES from the writings of Greeks themselves, Maurice, Constantine, Procopius, Menander, John of Ephesus, Simocatta, a number of Popes.
>>
>everybody who disagrees with me is a pontian turkseed.
>the results from studies i dont like are revisionism. mine are the only correct ones and free from bias.
>south slavs are UBER slavs. poles and belarussians arent fit for base slavic dna
fucking schizo retard
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>>11591851
So Macedonia was not only Slavic but also Polish?
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>>11592807
Is that fucking gyno?
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>>11592888
They have, in fact,t inhabited a larger territory, and I've changed nothing, I've just specified in which context they're mentioned in the DAI, stop fishing for arguments I've never made, and address the ones I have, and figure4 is irrelevant for aforementioned reasons, and is contradictory to ACTUAL aDNA and Y-DNA results regarding Greeks.

>from which academic samples do you allege?
Global25 pop. averages modern scaled, here:
https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/07/getting-most-out-of-global25_12.html

And "allege"? What are you attempting to say?
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>>11592911
>operates on the basis of a woman's thinking pattern
Your mother is a subhuman whore, and you inherited her IQ.

>Poles and Belarussians
Poles are since they're the purest Slavs, Belarussians aren't, because they're notably Baltic-shifted, that simple, and you're a "Turkseed", but a bonafide Turk (read, Pontian Greeks have no Greek_Mycenean). Also, nowhere have I claimed that South Slavs are giga-Slavs, but that we score primarily in Slavic aDNA, which is reflected in all studies and G25.
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>>11592937
>https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2019/07/getting-most-out-of-global25_12.html
>davinski
>SlavicDNAproject
all is explained
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>>11592950
>operates on the basis of a woman's thinking pattern
dont be so harsh on yourself. if i were you though, i would do something about that gyno
>>
>>11591318
kurwa! we were sarmatians AND greeks.
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>>11592901
>I looked, and still, look infinitely better than you
You don’t though. Post wrists
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>>11592952
Actual cope, Davidski's project is a global initiative and has access to all digital libraries.

Also, you've no idea who Davidski is, do you?
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>>11592878
>based on academic samples
Which ones?
>subdued
Subdued populations in smaller areas were often subject to transfers if they were suspected of being rebellious, as earlier Asia Minor Slavs had been by Emperor Michael's III forebearers, as was common of Byzantine policy, per the "The Transfer of Population as a Policy in the Byzantine Empire". Sure, some possibly remained and were Hellenized but had they settled in such great numbers, their presence in Peloponnesian Greeks outside Mani would be more widespread than a third at best according to your sources using Poles as the baseline.
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>>11592968
I was specifically referring to you.

>abut that gyno
How to out yourself as someone who doesn't work out, and doesn't have a large, muscular chest, therefore a weak man (read, woman).

>>11592972
I do, that's not your photo, but of Connor Murphy, now post your own photo, or don't bother responding.
>>
>>11592807
dios mio el drekavac del haplogrupo
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>>11592985
Subdued populations were, as the word implies, made subjects of the empire, subjugation wasn't always followed up transfers with populations unless specifically recorded as such, and they did, in fact, settle in large numbers, because modern inhabitants score more than 30% in Slavic input, that's substantial by definition.

>which ones
Here >>11592937
And if you dislike the blog, then just use them from here, they're the same, http://g25vahaduo.genetics.ovh/G25modern-scaled-averages.htm, the data I've used in all my runs are taken from this spreadsheet.
>>
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>>11593038
If you're going to save my photos to beat your meat, then at least save the newer photos
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>>11592937
The parapraph I quoted referred to Peloponnesian Slavs, who'd beenr reduced to the Taygetus.
>figure4 is irrelevant for afformentioned reasons and is contradictory to ACTUAL aDNA and Y-DNA results regarding Greeks.
For which reasons is it irrelevant? You claimed the study only included the results of the Maniots>>11592797, figure4 shows otherwise.
>Global25 pop. averages modern scaled, here:
Thank you.
>And "allege"? What are you attempting to say?
I used 'allege' as up until now had not seen the sources you'd made your claims on, and until now could dismiss them as alleging and baseless. I will look over the source now.
>>11593048
>subjugation wasn't always followed up transfers with populations unless specifically recorded as such
I think you'd find "The Transfer of Population as a Policy in the Byzantine Empire" interesting, if you haven't seen it already.
>>
>>11593055
That's not recent. You got a haircut which fully displays your facial subhumanity, hence why you're posting old photos and pretending they're new
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>>11592972
What's your cycle like? If you tanned your physique would be perfect.
>>
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>>11593073
Yes, and it also states they inhabited a larger territory, and of them, only the Melingoi and Ezerites survived, and that their territory shrunk as a result of the subjugation.

> figure4 shows otherwise
If it did involve other populations, then their Slav input would be substantially bigger, as you've seen on all G25 runs of REGIONAL Greek averages, the graphs portray other populations, but it's obvious that the other populations weren't sampled, unlike the Maniots.

> had not seen the sources you'd made your claims on
???????????? I've sent you three G25 runs, and prior to that, I've pasted Y-DNA results from every available Y-DNA study on mainland Greeks to date >>11591867 >>11591397 >>11591387 >>11591352. The sources to the studies are there in the image, taken from here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_haplogroups_in_populations_of_Europe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_haplogroups_by_ethnic_group
The studies are sourced as well.

>if you haven't seen it already.
Is there a PDF?

>>11593074
It's from last Summer, and this is how I look today, taken last month, and again, you're spamming an image of mine from 4 years ago, Bull.
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>>11593048
I believe these 23 samples from across the entire Peloponnese with no further detail to geographic location or information about the participants is not enough disprove a study with over 200 more participants from specific areas with detailed parameters outlined in the study in the 'Subjects and Methods' section.
Those 23 samples could for all I know be centred on Patras, in the north of the Peloponnese with a greater population than any other city on the peninsula or supposedly amongst the 'Melingoi' you said you'd spoken to here.
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>>11593149
You really look like you need medical treatment
>>
>>11593113
That's not him, that's Connor Murphy.
>>
>accuse anyone who points out your retardation of thinking like a woman while getting emotional
>constantly upload selfies and talk about mogging like the narcissist you are(like most women), on a mostly male anonymous chat board
>the irony escapes you
What's his name?
>>
>>11593149
>Yes, and it also states they inhabited a larger territory, and of them, only the Melingoi and Ezerites survived, and that their territory shrunk as a result of the subjugation.
If they were the only ones to survive (the Melingoi being the only ones to make it past ~900AD), their legacy would be far more notable.
>but it's obvious that the other populations weren't sampled
I've shown evidence from the study, and you have chosen to bury your head in the sand.
> I've sent you three G25 runs
The data sources for these runs had not been presented.
>I've pasted Y-DNA results from every available Y-DNA study on mainland Greeks to date >>11591867 >>11591397 >>11591387 >>11591352
Observe each of these three studies then and you'll see Slavic Y-DNA is quite low in the Peloponnese
>Is there a PDF?
If there is, I'm unaware of it, but I presume you're a student? Maybe you could access it via a university database which has access to academic sources.
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>>11593151
The study disproves itself in light of new findings, and already, previously known Y-DNA studies (linked above), and unlike the study's 200 samples, that are allegedly gathered from the whole region, whereas their results are Maniot-like, even though Maniots never ventured outside of their region, these samples are gathered from every part of the Peloponnesus, and these are academic, not amateur samples, so I'm not sure where you're going with these assumptions.

These G25 results correlate with Y-DNA studies on Mainland Greeks, whereas the study you're defending doesn't, just by applying the eliminatory method, the study is moot, by default.
>>
>>11593188
>still persists in behaving like a woman, weaponized intellectual dishonesty
It's you, and tell your mother I'm coming over.

>>11593205
You've no idea of population genetics, any non-Slavic populations that consistently scores anywhere between 33-43% in Slavic DNA, are by definition, substantially altered by Slavic admixture, whether aDNA or -YDNA-wise, it matters not, and in the case of mainland Greeks, it's both.

>I've shown evidence from the study
It's poor evidence because the study has not provided us with the means of proving whether they've included samples from non-Maniots. Given the extreme discrepancy in results in comparison to all known aDNA and Y-DNA studies on Greeks to date, it's very apparent they didn't, in fact, include non-Maniot samples, whereas what I've provided you are finite, factual data.

>is quite low
R1a sits somewhere between 5-9% in the Peloponnesus, whereas I2a1b-Din sits at 12-13%, that's anywhere between 18-22% in total, that's a fifth of Y-DNA lineages on the peninsula, that's not low.
>>
>>11593206
>whereas their results are Maniot-like,
Observing Figure1, the Maniot results are similiar, but discernable enough to be observed as seperate from the group, on a spectrum indicating relation.
>even though Maniots never ventured outside of their region
Maniots retreated to the region, and had less genetic interaction with than the rest of the Pelopponese.
>These G25 results correlate with Y-DNA studies on Mainland Greeks, whereas the study you're defending doesn't, just by applying the eliminatory method, the study is moot, by default.
I don't see how the study is moot or how it is controversial, it's aim was to dismiss an already controversial theory concerning heavy Slavic admixture in the Peloponnese, and it has shown from 241 samples, that this ranges from 0.2% to 14.4% when compared to Poles, Ukrainians, etc.
Your data on the otherhand uses only 23 samples, which I fail to see as different to the samples collected by a peer-reviewed study. Even if they are "gathered from every part" of the Peloponnese, am I supposed to take your word for it when even your own source lacks this information? Moreover, there are only 23 and I fail to see how this is comprehensive enough to do more than hypothesize a study with 241 is incorrect, let alone dismiss it entirely as 'revisionist' when it is infact your belief which is the controversial and revisionary one.
The vast majority of sources agree on some closeness, but baring Greek Macedonians, not the amount of Slavic admixture you claim.
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>>11593158
I look like someone who has gotten used to performing reproductive activities with the woman who gave birth to you, I took this now, enjoy.
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>>11593291
>provided us with the means of proving whether they've included samples from non-Maniots

Dude theres literally a study and image in the thread showing otherwise
Cmon
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>>11593294
The study is contradictory to all aDNA and Y-DNA studies on Greeks to date, which confirmed that the peninsula sits at 33.7% Slavic aDNA, and anywhere between 18-22% Slavic Y-DNA, and nothing I've stated here in regards to DNA is what I claim, but what IS, based on empirical data.

Simply put, the study is shit, and if accurate, would have corresponded with the aforementioned, instead of its extremely discrepant, and I'm not here to convince you, I've provided data that you've failed at refuting, yet you persist to claim something that has no basis whatsoever.
>>
Imagine being this autistic.
SEEK HELP.
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>>11593308
>Being this mentally impaired
The graph mentions alleged non-Maniot samples, but the study doesn't provide access to individual samples, and all samples are suspiciously nigh-identical to Maniots, an extremely isolated population.
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>>11593291
>R1a
There's ~4% in Cyprus too, it's reasonable to believe this amount was present in pre-Slavic Greek populations and possibly only slightly bolstered by Slavs.
>I2a1b-Din sits at 12-13%
> that's anywhere between 18-22% in total
Well that's a big jump down from the third you'd asserted from your G25s, and not too far from the max of the study I presented being 14.4%. I believe this is reasonable, but not enough to claim a widespread replacement of Greeks in the Peloponnese, especially after you'd acknowledged the area experienced population transfers of Slavs out of the peninsula (Slavesians I refer too, Melingoi and all that aside) and acknowledged the repopulation of the peninsula by Sicilian, Italiot, Asia Minor Greeks, and Armenians here >>11592599
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>>11593343
Post results.
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>>11593336
>The study is contradictory to all aDNA and Y-DNA studies on Greeks to date
Please observe your own images once again here >>11591867 >>11591397 >>11591387 >>11591352, the Peloponnese has markedly lower 'Slavic' Y-DNA like I2 or as you claim R1a.
The study does correspond with the aforementioned. The study is in reference to Peloponnesian Greeks, it is not in reference to Mainland Greeks, nor Cretan Greeks, nor only Maniots, but a wide range of 241 samples from across the Peloponnese. I implore you to look closer, and examine its supplementary information.
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>>11593351
The clade of R1a is either M458 or R1a-L260, both are Slavic clades, the one of Cyprus is most likely R1a-Z93, which arrived with Turks.

>>11593351
aDNA input doesn't correlate with the percentage of Y-DNA, Herzegovinians score the most in I2a1b-Din (72-726%), yet they only score 55% in Slavic aDNA, it all depends on how much they've intermarried with non-Slavs, and stop using words like "believe", this is not a matter of belief, but of factual realities. Molecular biology is an exact science,

>and acknowledged
Except I never said that it came to a "widespread replacement of Greeks in the Peloponnese", but that Slavs have left a substantial genetic input there, which I've corroborated with finite, factual data, and I've also never said that the Romans never transported Slavs from one spot to another and that the spots would be repopulated by Greeks and other loyal, Greek-speaking populations.
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>>11593379
No, it doesn't, because even if Slavic Y-DNA was lower, it still doesn't refute the G25 and aDNA studies. Autosomal DNA is the TOTAL DNA of a person. If you knew this, you would've stopped responding after the first, or second G25 run.
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>>11591318
thats an exaggeration but modern greeks do have something like 10-15% slavic ancestry, more so mainlanders. islanders have a lot less.
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>>11593394
Even still, the jump down from a third to 22% at maximum is significant.
>but that Slavs have left a substantial genetic input there
Is 14.4% not substantial? It's noticeable and hasn't been dismissed by the study, but it is not the ludicrous and unfounded in anywhere bar your G25s claim of roughly a third.
>I've also never said that the Romans never transported Slavs from one spot to another and that the spots would be repopulated by Greeks and other loyal, Greek-speaking populations.
I'm aware, I said you'd agreed these events had happened, which one can conclude Slavic presence and DNA being further dilluted to the range the study presents. Slavs settled the region, some were deported, other Greeks and non-Greeks were brought in overtime, both of these factors leads to fewer examples of Slavic DNA being as high as a third, and allows for it to be reasonable placed within the range of the study.
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>>11591646
>source: huffingtonpost
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>>11593406
Not him, but you said Y-DNA would be more present here >>11591646
The study talks about admixture, so it wouldn't be surprising if the aDNA is lower due to a lack of Slavic mtDNA
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>>11593299
Whatever. I'm sure that I'm not the first person telling you that you need help. The earlier you seek support, the more chances there are that you'll not end up in some asylum scratching numbers on the walls and thinking about stories of some parallel universe with Slavic conquistadors and stuff.
>>
Daily reminder that Svetovid is a Bosniak larping as a Serb.
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>>11593421
>but it is not the ludicrous and unfounded in anywhere bar your G25s claim of roughly a third
Just wait a bit. G25 is a great tool to model ancestry. The same principle is used in actual genetic papers. It's obvious for anyone interested in this topic that Slavic admixture in Greeks is substantial and it's closer to 30% rather than 15%.
New samples won't change this picture, according to Eurogenes most classical Greek sample cluster with Cypriots, so yeah, pretty close to Rome Imperial.

All we need is a big paper with a lot of later samples. Sooner or later it will be released.
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>>11593687
I eagerly await and I mean that sincerely, and would not be surprised if Slavic Admixture across the entire Greek average is ~30%, I would be if the Peloponnesian one is however.
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>>11593421
What "jump", Y-DNA isn't aDNA, they're separate entities, Y-DNA is the paternal lineage, aDNA is your total DNA.

>but it is not ludicrous and unfounded in anywhere bar your G25s claim of roughly a third
Now it's all clear, you're just agitated because of the input, not that there's AN input, and this isn't a claim, this is a genetic fact.

>DNA being further diluted to the range the study presents
No, it doesn't because the G25 runs were based on MODERN SCALED AVERAGES. If anything, the Slavic input would've been higher at any point in the past, and since you've mentioned Greek-speakers from Anatolia, Sicily, and even Armenians being settled on the peninsula, that would show in the study, and the populations that were supplanted by the new arrivals would cluster APART from one another, whereas they're suspiciously clustering closely to Maniots, who was, up until very recently, isolated, stop using shit-tier studies to soothe your pride.

>reasonable
It's a revisionist study, nothing" reasonable" about it

>>11593436
The sources are social studies from each country involved, Huff. Post just made the map according to the results.

>>11593474
I've said that Slavic DNA is ancestral because it appeared in the 6th and 7th centuries, and was introduced by the invading men, but the thing is, the study claims that it includes all populations from the peninsula, which should be heterogeneous because they were supplanted by Greek-speakers from every part of the Mediterranean from as early as the 8th, 9th, and even 10th centuries, yet they all suspiciously cluster closely, specifically to Maniots, who were an isolated group up until very recently. In other words, the study only used samples of Maniots and portrayed them as if they were from other populations as well.
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>>11593721
>bro please cmon the source lied
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>>11593527
>t. has never read a page of history, but sneers at history on a history board
Womanmoment.

>>11593716
It already is more than 30% on the mainland, and as the other anon said, G25 is endorsed and used as a staple module in DNA studies.
>>
There's no ancient Balkan population that could bring this 30% Polish genes to Greece. Most of it is definitely Slavic.

Target: Greek_Peloponnese
Distance: 2.0546% / 0.02054624
39.2 GRC_Cycladic_EBA
31.4 Polish
14.8 GRC_Helladic_MBA
14.6 GRC_Mycenaean
0.0 BGR_IA
0.0 GRC_Helladic_EBA
0.0 GRC_Minoan_EBA
0.0 GRC_Minoan_Lassithi
0.0 GRC_Minoan_Odigitria_low_res
0.0 HRV_IA
0.0 Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2
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>>11593731
The "study"'s results are contradictory to all available aDNA and Y-DNA studies on Mainland Greeks. Only Greek islanders have lower than 15-18% Slavic input, not mainlanders, that is where they differ, in the fact that mainlanders score consistently in substantial input, whereas islanders in notably lower input.
>>
Could be worse.

Target: Croatian
Distance: 1.2059% / 0.01205875
68.0 Polish
32.0 HRV_IA
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>>11593766
>contradictory to all studies
>his own studies bar a tiny one contradict him

Even aside from this, saying the other study flat out lied is fucking retarded, it looks more spread out than any of yours posted
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>>11593721
Not him but I don't think Greeks settled in an area being close to Greeks in another area is shocking.
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>>11593790
The Peloponnese was engorged with new arrivals from every part of the Greek-speaking Mediterranean (with vastly different DNA), yet they all cluster extremely close to Maniots, who were never affected by any of that, and where an isolated population up until very recently, it's extremely apparent they tampered with the data, otherwise, the study would show extreme heterogeneity.


>his own studies
What I've said is furthered by Y-DNA and aDNA studies, and reflected in the G25 runs. Matter of fact, everyone else who posted their own G25 runs got the same, exact results for the Peloponnese, get a grip, you salty mutt.
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>>11593806
That's not shocking, but the lack of diversity of DNA is, which is proof they didn't include the samples of other inhabitants of the Peloponnesus which were affected by the input of these new arrivals.
>>
Pre-Slavic Greece was Cypriot-like, pre-Slavic Balkans were like North Italians. There aren't many samples, but it's enough to come to this conclusion. Slav migration was massive and replaced 10-70% of earlier ancestry in the Balkans.

HRV_IA, BGR_IA, MDA_Scythian are all pretty similar and they don't cluster with modern South Slavs.
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>>11593841
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>>11593818
Looking at the study, seems like the Maniots are distinct enough to easily form their own group, along with even more distant Tsakonians

>same exact result
>posts from the same source
It's the Eurogenes ones they're posting, a blog with small sample sizes
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>>11593857
>shows a Greek in the Peloponnese
Pottery
>>
This is a sample from pre-Slavic Czechia. It's a woman. I doubt she came directly from Rome, but her genetic profile is very Italian.


Distance to: Migration_LIB:LIB3
0.03282935 Italian_Liguria
0.03287600 Italian_Lombardy
0.03422651 Italian_Piedmont
0.03574889 Italian_Bergamo
0.03706812 French_Corsica
0.03807683 Italian_Tuscany
0.03986653 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.04014426 Italian_Veneto
0.04078530 Spanish_Menorca
0.04086796 Spanish_Eivissa
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>>11593878
Memes don't represent reality, which is more than a third Slavic for the Peloponnese.

>>11593870
>retard has no idea about G25
>blog with small sample sizes
>samples are MODERN SCALED regional averages
Slav rape-baby cope, they're from here http://g25vahaduo.genetics.ovh/G25modern-scaled-averages.htm, and the tool is endorsed and used extensively in DNA studies, specifically genetic papers, which either use G25 directly or use the same principle.

>seems like the
Slav rape-baby copex2, populations that are wildly different due to all the Anatolian, Armenian and Sicilian shitskins pouring cannot cluster that closely to Maniots, who were isolated up until recently.
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>>11593750
Zodiac signs are not history young lady
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>>11593948
>calls others lady
>knows what Zodiac signs are
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>>11593948
Romans and Greeks actively followed astrology. So much so the Catholic church had to announce it wasn't a sin to follow the zodiac. It's definitely part of history.
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>>11593916
maniots are literally sicilian-like, you stupid nigger, and myceneans are closer to sicilians than todays greeks



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