[a / b / c / d / e / f / g / gif / h / hr / k / m / o / p / r / s / t / u / v / vg / vm / vmg / vr / vrpg / vst / w / wg] [i / ic] [r9k / s4s / vip / qa] [cm / hm / lgbt / y] [3 / aco / adv / an / bant / biz / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / pw / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / vt / wsg / wsr / x / xs] [Settings] [Search] [Mobile] [Home]
Board
Settings Mobile Home
/his/ - History & Humanities

[Advertise on 4chan]


Thread archived.
You cannot reply anymore.


[Advertise on 4chan]


Is he the ultimate good guy of history?
>>
>>11585686
>"I judged the Poles by their enemies.
And I found it was an almost unfailing- truth
that their enemies were the enemies of magna-
nimity and manhood. If a man loved slavery,
if he loved usury, if he loved terrorism and all
the trampled mire of materialistic politics, I
have always found that he added to these
affections the passion of a hatred of Poland.
She could be judged in the light of that hatred ;
and the judgment has proved to be right.” G.K. Chesterton

We all struggle, some more than other, some individualy, some as a collective state. Whatever you seek, Poland and Poles did it before you thought about it.
>>
>>11585686
No. In fact, each time Poland "suffered", it expressed the very same plans like the ones who dominated it. It didn't suffer for its' good nature. It only suffered for its' weakness and incompetence.
>>
>>11585724
Somewhat true. You can't be in this geopolitical position and allow yourself to become weak. You must dominate.
>>
>>11585742
Not nesessarily dominate, but you need to be competent domestically and realistic internationally.
>>
>>11585724
How? Even when Poland had the upper hand, it always treated its lessers fairly. Look at Russia and Prussia. Both were at Poland’s mercy at one stage and Poland basically gave them their freedom. Never massacred their population, never tried to wipe out their culture. In fact those of different cultures and religions were never persecuted in Poland.
>>
He is the annoying and retarded fleshlight of their neighbor countries of history.
>>
>>11585754
But Poland and Poles had a very good chance to be the dominant force in this region, hell even rulling over Muscovites, which considered Sarmatian culture to be superior to theirs.(before they switched to French). Polacks fucked it up.
>>
Poland caused WW2 by starting to persecute and genocide Germans in the Eastern regions of Germany, provoking a German response which caused the UK to declare war.
Fortunately they payed dearly for it.
Fuck polacks.
>>
>>11585780
No one will fall for this bait. It has been done thousands of times.
>>
>>11585686
Apart from a few instances they were quite magnanimous and geared towards decentralisation. As a result of this they generally had a lot of freedom and never were that interested in aggressive expansion. The only people who hate Poland and Lithuania are seething centralisation-cucks that wish the government plowed them every morning.
>>
>>11585686
Everything that happened to Poland they had it coming.
>>
>>11585780
>>
>>11585881
Go to bed
>>
File: 1544570634969.jpg (91 KB, 601x281)
91 KB
91 KB JPG
>>11585881
>>11585770
>>
>>11585686
If you manage to make almost all of your neighbours hate you you are not the good guy.
>>
File: 1544569030458.jpg (134 KB, 561x432)
134 KB
134 KB JPG
>>11585910
makes me laugh honestly
>>11585916
if you live without hurting other's feelings then you haven't truly lived
>>
File: 1544569659002.png (42 KB, 538x160)
42 KB
42 KB PNG
>>11585920
>>
>>11585916
Poland’s neighbours exploited its kindness
>>
>>11585770
>hell even rulling over Muscovites
And then the Polish king had the brilliant idea to convert Russians to Catholicism which shockingly made all of Russia dedicated to kicking him out. Truely a bastion of competence.
>>
>>11585910
>>11585920
>>11585928
this right here is why nazis wanted to get rid of slavmonkeys, and they were right.
>>
>>11585940
A fuckup, isn't it.
>>
>>11585943
low IQ ape.

BANAN GO BRRRRRR
>>
>>11585932
Hurt other peoples feelings? No, what Poland did was suckerpunch it's neighbours and then claim that they were the real victims.
>>11585932
So their invasions of Germany, Czechoslovakia, Lithuania and Ukraine were actually acts of kindness?
>>
>>11585958
oH GODs, actual mental illness.
>>
File: Antean WW2Mogg.jpg (426 KB, 1800x1801)
426 KB
426 KB JPG
>>11585958
>>
>>11585964
>t. larper
The real Masurians got kicked out together with the Germans, you're just a Polish-Ukrainian/Lithuanian mutt.
>>
>>11586002
I am a God, in every aspect. So kneel.
>>
>>11585686

>>11585958
>So their invasions of Germany, Czechoslovakia, Lithuania and Ukraine were actually acts of kindness?
Solid question
>>
The cum bucket of history sound more appropriate.
>>
Hopefully the polack chuds get kicked out of the EU for disrespecting LGBT rights and the independent judiciary.
>>
File: German statehood.jpg (407 KB, 1195x593)
407 KB
407 KB JPG
>>11586629
>>
File: 1624213764181.jpg (165 KB, 1280x818)
165 KB
165 KB JPG
>>11585686
they would be, if they successfully eradicated prussians and created poland-lithuania-ruthenia
>>
>>11585686
How? By constantly being a victim? That doesn't make you a good guy but a loser.
>>
File: 1624650209479.jpg (174 KB, 667x624)
174 KB
174 KB JPG
>>11585714
>Poland by G. K. Chesterton

>Augurs that watched archaic birds
>Such plumèd prodigies might read,
>The eagles that were double-faced,
>The eagle that was black indeed;
>And when the battle-birds went down
>And in their track the vultures come,
>We know what pardon and what peace
>Will keep our little masters dumb.

>The men that sell what others make,
>As vultures eat what others slay,
>Will prove in matching plume with plume
>That naught is black and all is grey;
>Grey as those dingy doves that once,
>By money-changers palmed and priced,
>Amid the crash of tables flapped
>And huddled from the wrath of Christ.

>But raised for ever for a sign
>Since God made anger glorious,
>Where eagles black and vultures grey
>Flocked back about the heroic house,
>Where war is holier than peace,
>Where hate is holier than love,
>Shone terrible as the Holy Ghost
>An eagle whiter than a dove.
>>
Buno
>>
>>11585686
yes
>>11585714
>>11585758
>>11587787
true and based
>>
>>11585686
the good guy in the sense that only the good die young
>>
p*land deserves to burn for eternity
>>
>>11585686
The way that Polish writers after the Partitioning referred to the Rzeczpospolita as the "Jesus of Europe" was deserved, if melodramatic. It was a very progressive, relatively egalitarian state that made some bad (as in unwise, not cruel) choices that put it in a position to be victimized by the powers surrounding it. States that had no interest in maintaining the balance of power in Europe, like the Ottoman Empire and Persia, acknowledged that the Partitioning was criminal and illegitmate. They were the punching bag of Eastern Europe for two-hundred years, and spent another hundred as a people without a state. James Madison saw them as the best example of a how a virtuous government can be undone by its principles weakening it on the world stage, and that federal republics are the best balance between freedom and order. I'd say they're the European power that managed to have real power without inhumanity.
>>
Poles are alright. I am not a fan of how much they downplay their own role in the holocaust.
>>
>>11590796
don't make me laugh
the """""commonwealth""" was a p*lish attempt at a colonial empire. Thank god it fell. I will always celebrate October 24th.
>>
>>11590810
It was an empire, but one that promised the best quality of life for its peasants and did not utterly dismantle local power. Any historian will acknowledge that the Khmelnytsky Uprising was a bitter victory, where they traded mild tyrants of a different faith for cruel ones of their own faith. No government will ever conform to individual standards of goodness, but Poland was by far the least-cruel in Europe.
>>
>>11590831
it was an empire only good for p*les and no one else
>>
>>11590834
I'd say Lithuanians got more prestige per capita than Poles. East Slavs were marginalized for social reasons, but they had freedom of religion. The same way as Jews, it's not dreamy to live there, but it's the only place in Europe where a minority had a fair shake.
>>
>>11590848
what prestige did lithuanians get? They lost a quarter their ethnic lands and their entire nobility thanks to that unholy empire
>>
>>11590855
They were, in turn, disproportionately represented among the szlachta. As for the land bit, I don't know what you mean. Lithuania and Poland were both local powers, and joined together to become a Catholic major power surrounded by Protestants, Orthodox, and Muslims.
>>
>>11585686
>being a victim makes you good
>>
File: .png (1.03 MB, 1600x1757)
1.03 MB
1.03 MB PNG
>>11590869
>They were, in turn, disproportionately represented among the szlachta
they also abandoned their lithuanian roots and spoke p*lish. In other words, they were no longer lithuanian
> As for the land bit, I don't know what you mean
compare lithuanian language map from 16th century to today
>>
>>11590883
So, are you saying that a small ethnic group choosing to confederate on peaceful terms with a larger ethnic group to sustain itself is a crime with guilt laying at the feet of the larger ethnic group? Should Poland have refused to confederate to preserve the integrity of the Lithuanian race, despite the Lithuanian desire to confederate?
>>
cant deny it
>>
https://youtu.be/r4W-564o9io
>>
>>11590907
I am merely saying that the p*lish "nation" was a god's mistake and he's taking an extremely long time to fix it
>lithuanian desire
again, "lithuanians" who spoke polish and did not practice lithuanian customs
>>
>>11585686
No wtf they're thieves and leeches
>>
Poland is the Christ of nations, it even tolerated muslims, Jews, and protestants
>>
>>11590954
saying such blasphamy is disrespectful to the lord
it's like comparing god to a piece of turd
>>
>>11585758
>In fact those of different cultures and religions were never persecuted in Poland.
That's a lie which Catholic Church wants you to believe.

The religious freedom lasted from 1573 where Warsaw Confederacy was signed which allowed religious freedom
to 1589 the 2nd Synod Piotrkowski where document signed broke the Warsaw Confederacy bill, allowed destruction of any churches/synagogues/mosques that weren't Catholic, gave Catholic Clergy power over the nobility, exempts from taxes and so on.
Then we have two centuries of Catholic counterreformation with Brzeska Union which fucked over Orthodoxes and ended up with internal wars in Ukraine. Then we have Waza dynasty with King of the Jesuits who fucked over protestants, lost throne of the Sweden because he couldn't not persecute Swedish protestants.
Then we have the last execution of heretic in Europe due to atheism Kazimierz Łyszczyński in 1689 which was even condemned by the pope himself(though probably because every single fucking pope condemned everything that Poland did).
In the meantime the Arians (Polish Brethren) who were top notch philosophers and were spreading in the west their ideology like mad, who could make Poland the centre of European culture and philosophy were wiped out of existence (the only exiled protestants from Poland. Catholics never did touch anyone else, but the true Polish ones).

And so on.

Here are yours "religious freedoms" in Poland. Bunch of lies and bullshit.
>>
>>11585758
>>11590980
Forgot to mention. Poland treated Prussia "fairly" because Prussia always had support of papacy and/or HRE/Germans so it couldn't be disbanded ever without a war against the West.

If it was up to Jagiellons they would disband it, as again the common history is lies making Włądysław Jagiełło a neophite, while Jagiełło was actually helping Husites in Chechia and was quite anti Catholic and just nationalistic. Just as a good pagan should be. Working for his people and his kingdom not for religion.
>>
>>11590990
he wasn't nationalistic
his actions ruined lithuania
>>
>>11590997
That is a bullshit Lithuanians like you like to tell themselves.
Lithuania was ruined because of latter rulers.

If you say Władysław was in the wrong of taking Polish Crown and somehow by this destoyed Lithuania you should also condemn Gediminas who was the one who came up with idea of alliance with Poland and baptizing his own daughter.
>>
>>11591013
>If you say Władysław was in the wrong of taking Polish Crown and somehow by this destoyed Lithuania you should also condemn Gediminas who was the one who came up with idea of alliance with Poland and baptizing his own daughter.
of course. Expanding east in general was a mistake
>>
>>11591016
Exactly. Instead of allying with Lithuania which spreaded Polish influence into the East Poland should have supported Teutons and get rid of you.
>>
>>11591040
on the contrary, we should've allied with the teutons and exterminated the pathetic shithole you call a "nation"
>>
I live in Chicago a city where third generation Polish Americans still can’t speak English.

They are also annoying at any shipping places, the type to take things out of your basket
>>
>>11591048
XD Teutons allying with Pagans against Christians - subordinates to the HRE and the Pope XD

Good riddance, you nationalists and your wetdreams. The same retardation everywhere despite of nation you belong to.
>>
>>11591050
We do not wan them in Poland either. Thanks for keeping them there.
>>
>>11591072
we have had a Christian kingdom before, one without filthy p*lish meddling. I'm sure the teutons would gladly take a chance to cut down some p*lish subhumans
>>
>>11591085
Yes, yes.
You see inbred nationalist, you have no historical knowledge.

The Polish Lithuanian alliance never did fully incorporate Prussia into their belongings because the West would wage an all out war against Poland and Lithuania because they saw the Polish/Lithuanian War as a war of pagan king from pagan Lithuania against Christianity.

And you in your retardation think that Teutons allying with subhuman pagan Lithuanians would have different result XD

Get over it. It is history. And nowadays you are poor, small and irrevelant, because you do nothing but grasp on "how great Lithuania would be if not for Jagiełło".
And you would be as great as Ukraine when Ruskies would rape you from the East.

That's all. I'm done talking with ahistorical retard with complexes.
>>
>>11591100
You misunderstand me. I don't want a "great" lithuania. I want a Lithuania free of p*lish meddling and a world free of p*lish existence. That's all I want
>>
>>11590961
Why do you hate Christ so much that you see him as a turd next to Lord Poland?
>>
>>11590834
And that's a good thing

>>11591100
>never fully incorporated Prussia
Royal Prussia wasn't just founded as a Polish vassal, but as a HEREDITARY Polish vassal, so the opposite is true, historically speaking.

>ahistorical retard with complexes
Textbook projection, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was one of the undisputed masters of Early Modern Europe, whereas the progenitor of Germany was in its shadow for centuries, thus the chief source of German hatred for the Polish.
>>
>>11591048
It was tried before and after grunwald.
And it was total fail.
Also trusting germs...
>>
>>11591106
If not these polish meddling Lithuanians would be under german or russian boot if existing at all.
>>
>>11591050
>I live in Chicago a city where third generation Polish Americans still can’t speak English.

Based. They don’t want to be corrupted by your mutt “””culture”””.
>>
>>11591311
it was a bad thing
>>11591294
I think that p*land is a turd and therefore shouldn't be compared to the Savior
>>11591350
Any overlord's better than a p*lish fucking subhuman. I'd take a german anyday over a p*le
>>11591343
p*leshits are worse
>>
>>11591394
they are literal niggers
>>
>>11591409
They would be if they let themselves get corrupted by amerinegro “culture”.
>>
File: 1607976355671.jpg (239 KB, 1054x1417)
239 KB
239 KB JPG
Reminder not to reply to seething lithuanian from /int/
>>
>>11591662
He is not lithuanian, he was doxxed his name is Igor.
>>
>>11585714
If you asked G.K Chesterton who was the good guy in the napoleonic wars he would not even heseitate before saying the British, then he would attempt to slap you for even implying it could be otherwise.
The man was a British nationalist and arch conservative, he is only saying this because it aligns with the political situation of his current moment.
>>
File: pepe-loser-forehead.jpg (14 KB, 255x247)
14 KB
14 KB JPG
>>11591680
oh nononono
he is a seething hohol larping as lithuanian
>>
>>11591688
but he would be right
fuck that frog """""emperor"""""
>>
>>11591694
By the test Chesterton provided there, namely "Do you align with Poland (If no you're evil") Napoleon would pretty handily be the good guy of the Napoleonic wars, barring the situation in Haiti.
Actually that does pretty much sum up the morality of the napoleonic wars.
>>
>>11591691
>be Hohol
>join the already grossly enlargened Cossack registry of 40 000
>demand for it to be enlarged some more
>Poles, who are funding you, say no
>invent a whole narrative of how the Poles oppressed you
>>
>>11591715
it wasn't "Do you align with Poland?" but "Do you hate Poland/seethe at Poland?"
>>
File: 1521109917419.jpg (283 KB, 1328x854)
283 KB
283 KB JPG
>>11585686
>>
>those innocent orthodox ukrainians
YEAH OPPRESS THEM
>russia having trouble
YEAH INVADE IT
>innocent czhekoslovakia minding it own business
YEAH SPLIT IT WITH THE NAZIS
>see innocent jews not bothering anyone
YEAH PUT THEM IN POLISH CONCENTRATION CAMPS
>have a socialist state built for you
YEAH SUBVERT IT ON BEHALF OF GLOWNIGERS
>pope wants peace and reconciliation
YEAH ASSASINATE HIM

around the perfidious pole never sleep
>>
File: hhhh.png (43 KB, 659x332)
43 KB
43 KB PNG
>>11591730
>YEAH ASSASINATE HIM
but that was bulgarian job
>>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh2eQDVhWQU
>>
>>11591730
>innocent
>jews
>>
he's the ultimate rape victim of history
>>
>>11591723
i wouldnt be surprised if he actually said that. fucker drove poland into a hyper-aggressive dictatorship and somehow he got away with it
>>
>>11591842
poland shouldn't dress like a whore if she didn't want to get raped
>>
>>11592427
Based
>>
>>11587359
There should be a shota stańczyk insted of moe szlachcianka
>>
>>11591404
You are mentally ill
I don't seen that much salt even in salt mine
>>
>>11587359
who's poland fighting?
>>
They attacked every country around them to steal territory to which they felt "entitled" after being allowed back into existence after WW1, before getting trashed by Germany. After the war they were a threat to western civilisation in the eastern block till the end of the Cold War. Since then they have been a parasite in the side of the West, always threatening and demanding money. They will play the victim for all eternity instead of trying to build up something on their own. Now they are on the way to a dictatorship which seems to be in their nature. I have always seen Poland as an enemy nation and they do what they can to keep it that way. They are definitely not the "good guy" in history.
>>
>>11590980
>1589 the 2nd Synod Piotrkowski where document signed broke the Warsaw Confederacy bill
Catholic were never part of Warsaw Confederacy, and Synod of Piotrków was mostly intercatholic realisation of Trent. To great dismay of Cardinal Hozjusz, who was right, protestants were traitors as they prooved during Deluge.
>Brzeska Union which fucked over Orthodoxes and ended up with internal wars in Ukraine.
Union of Brześć was asked by Orthodox Clergy because they wanted to save thier rite from wave of latinisation. That was Sixth time Ruthenians asked for Church Union btw.
>he couldn't not persecute Swedish protestants.
He could but choose not to. He could have landed in Finland with larger force and crush the traitorus rebelion, and protestants with them.
>Arians
>top notch philosopher
Stoped reading there, you are really fucking stupid if you think that and are not worth any more of anyone's time.
>>
>>11591680
>>11591718
cope p*leshit
>>
File: Chesterton POland.jpg (110 KB, 567x656)
110 KB
110 KB JPG
>>11585686
>>11587787
>>
>>11592771
soon you will see a lot of salt after i burn down w*rasw and salt what's left of it
>>
>>11585910
>>11585920
>>11585928
>Polish communists
Stalin puppets and not an accurate representation of the Polish people.
>>
>>11591465
no. Everywhere they go, they act like niggers. In America, in Lithuania, in Britain too
>>
>>11590883
>>11590925
>compare lithuanian language map from 16th century to today
That was more a result because of the Russians than the Polish, as most during the time of the PLC were bilingual and spoke both Polish and Lithuanian. It was the Russian empire that banned the Lithuanian language and tried to colonize the area. It was the Soviet Union that tried to colonize the Baltic states with Russians. How is it that there are nearly as many Russians in Lithuania as Poles when the Poles have been there for longer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuanian_press_ban
>>
>>11593758
>That was more a result because of the Russians than the Polish
yeah sure, but somehow all these teritories became p*lish rather than russian
i wonder how
>as most during the time of the PLC were bilingual and spoke both Polish and Lithuanian
that's a load of bullshit and you know it
>>
>>11593824
only because p*leshits colonized us
>>
>>11593830
You're shit for being colonized.
>>
>>11593837
when p*leshits rule your country you don't really have a choice now, do you?
>>
Poles are the recurring minor villain. They keep getting defeated but come back just as pathetic as before. Everyone thinks they're more powerful and older than they are.
>>
>>11593773
The only people in Lithuania who refused to learn Lithuanian were

-Yiddish and Hebrew Jews: Who preferred to learn Polish as a second language since it was the lingua franca if they even bothered learning another language.

-Russians: who came as colonizers.

Belarusians: They lived in traditionary Belarusians area and didn't need to learn Lithuanian.
>>
>>11593859
>They lived in traditionary Belarusians area
Traditional Belarusia is Lithuania bud.
>>
>>11593859
the p*les were no better than the russians
>>
File: 1504268171668.jpg (16 KB, 399x400)
16 KB
16 KB JPG
>seething litvins again
Why do they hate themselves?
>>
>>11593773
>that's a load of bullshit and you know it
The famous writers of the Lithuanian national revival movement of the 19th century were bilingual in both Lithuanian and Polish and either wrote in both Lithuanian and Polish or translated Polish works into Lithuanian.

Antanas Strazdas: Wrote in both Polish and Lithuanian

Simonas Stanevičius: Wrote in both Polish and Lithuanian

Dionizas Poška: Wrote in both Polish and Lithuanian

Silvestras Teofilis Valiūnas: Wrote in both Polish and Lithuania

Antanas Jackus Klementas: Wrote in both Polish and Lithuanian

Vincas Kudirka: Translated the works of Mickiewicz and Słowacki into Lithuanian

Jonas Basanavičius: Wrote in both Polish and Lithuanian

Simonas Daukantas: Wrote in Lithuanian, but published a Polish-Lithuanian dictionary and was friends with Adam Mickiewicz
>>
>>11593926
neither of them lived during the plc retard. During the plc times you either had the "lithuanian" nobility who spoke p*lish and practiced p*lish customs and the oppressed peasants
>>
>>11590954
That's a lie, poles treated jews the same as germany and in WW2 they collaborated willingful with nazis to kill all jews
>>
>>11593937
How do you think they knew both the Lithuania and Polish languages if they didn't had a tradition of bilingualism that dated back to the PLC. Many of them were nobility or participated in the November and January uprisings.
>>
>>11593977
>Many of them were nobility or participated in the November and January uprisings.
no retard most of them were peasants.
>>
>>11594014
Many doesn't mean majority dumbass.
>>
>>11594056
the examples you posted were not even nobility dumbass
>>
>>11594104
>the examples you posted were not even nobility dumbass
No idea what your talking about because Dionizas Poška, Simonas Stanevičius, and Simonas Daukantas were nobles.

You also have failed to explain how all these Lithuanian peasants know Polish or Nobles know Lithuanian when as you claimed they there was on bilingualism.
>>
>>11594104
>>11594184
*Claimed that there was no bilingualism

Sorry for the spelling mistakes I was writing quickly.
>>
>>11594184
>Daukantas
>A noble
he was a son of free peasants you idiot. Now to answer your question how these *peasants* knew polish. They studied it the same way an irish peasant would study english
>>
>>11594238
> son of free peasants
Debatable. Still doesn’t address the other two.

> They studied it the same way an irish peasant would study english
So you admit that Lithuania was bilingual because Lithuanian’s would learn Polish and Poles would learn Lithuanian if they didn’t grow up learning both.
>>
>>11594274
>Stanevičius
a remnant of actual Lithuanian nobles, I agree with you there
>Poška
same as Stanevičius
>Poška was one of the first Lithuanian nobles who felt interested in various Lithuanian antiquities.
this should tell you what was the average "lithuanian" noble like
>So you admit that Lithuania was bilingual because Lithuanian’s would learn Polish and Poles would learn Lithuanian if they didn’t grow up learning both.
it was as bilingual as ireland was under england. No p*les actually learned lithuanian though
>>
>has /war/ in the name of it's capital
>good guy
i don't think so



Delete Post: [File Only] Style:
[Disable Mobile View / Use Desktop Site]

[Enable Mobile View / Use Mobile Site]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.