whats with Christians basically disregardimg the OT or at least just act as if it doesnt matter? Even going as far to say the OT isnt true(at least not entirely) but the NT is? Is it just cope for the supposed historical inaccurates in the OT? I dont see how anyone can think like this. its either you believe your whole religion is real or you think the whole thing is fake unless the religion itself says you can think otherwise. Its just strange to me.
>>11041234Especially when the OT is more then half the bible. And i could be wrong but im fairly sure there are even verses in the NT that cement the fact the OT is supposed to be taken literally. if this is the case do they just pick and choice what they think is real out of the OT? If so that might be even more silly.
It's too problematic to deal with so they had to come up with the covenant stuff
>>11041234It's pretty much just bad theology among the laymen. There is a legit Christian doctrine that teaches the OT law was superceeded by the NT law, but many people misinterpret it to mean that the OT books have been replaced (they haven't). In Christianity, those books are still the word of God.Plus, some people are just uncomfortable with what the OT says at times (even though the NT has plenty of difficult sayings).Also, I find that many Christians are just unaware of how much the OT really plays a role. All those stories about Adam and Noah and Abraham, that are taught to children? OT. All of the Psalms, that are sung at church? OT. All of the prophecies regarding Jesus quoted in the NT? OT.
>>11041234>>11041243I looked it up and it turns out Aquinas made it a rule and the Catholic Church follows it. The rule is that you defend any position until you can’t and then you call it allegory. I’m not joking
>>11041234that's catholic theology, protestant theology is the other way around, they seem to forget the NT exists
>>11042001>Aquinas made it a rule and the Catholic Church follows it. The rule is that you defend any position until you can’t and then you call it allegory.Source? Primarially one from Aquinas himself.>>11042014>they seem to forget the NT existsLolwut protestants constantly focus on NT ideas of grace, and constantly emphasize being a "New Testament church". Catholics have a liturgy strongly influenced from the OT liturgy, with sacrifices swapped out for eucharist.
>>11041234Those Christians are retard and no Church declares the OT as false or not relevant.The NT is based upon the OT.Idk man when i was being prepared for communion and when i was in school ww read both the OT and NT.
>>11042030Hold on I have to remember how I came upon it
>>11042001i guess thats expected. i see Catholics do this the most. the thing is one catholic even went as far to say its not allegory and just said its straight up wrong. is that a rule?
>>11041982what does it even ,ean that the books have been replaced?
>>11042034i know no church teaches it. it seems like something Christians do to deal with historical inaccurates. i just think its surprising that they just straight up say its fake or at most allegory . they dont even seem to try to really defend it.
>>11042576>I know no church teaches itBlatantly wrong in the first sentence, EO churches teach it all the time. You're generalizing like crazy making it hard to take you seriously.
>>11042642exactly, psalms are essential for every christian trying to build a relationship with God
If you want to hopefully find the truth of the matter look into Christianity before the Nicene Creed became standardized. That was the downfall of Christianity and it's been a slow descent ever since with schism after schism and wanton beliefs in things that aren't even in the Bible.Christians also place an ungodly amount of trust in what Paul says without even knowing he is the one who wrong more than half of the New Testament.
>>11042576My Catholic church taught the OT, a watered down version for children and they had bible studies on the weekends discussing all parts of the bible.
>>11042642>>11042720>>11042691you guys completely misinterpreted. i meant no church teaches that the OT is fake
>>11042696wanton beliefs? you know any examples?
Jesus did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. Jesus said not only is murder a sin, hating your brother in your heart is murder and you are worthy of hellfire. Same thing with adultery, if you list after a woman you have committed adultery in your heart. He proved the hypocrisy of the Pharisee, to know and live the law, but not to believe it in your heart. That is why He died for our sins, we all fell short of salvation. The law is an outward expression of faith, the same as baptism, if you judge by it God will judge you and you WILL fall short of salvation by works. It is by faith alone that we are saved.
>>11042830Ah, my bad then.
>>11041234It’s because the New Testament message is completely different and, in my opinion, fundamentally opposed to the Old Testament. It really doesn’t make any sense, you go from a legalistic, vengeful Yahweh to a merciful, compassionate Father. It makes no sense.
>>11042905fuck off gnostic heretic
>>11042912>no argument>gnostic hereticI expected as much from a N*ceaen.
>>11042844Reincarnation, pseudo-baptism (not submersion), guardian angels or familiars, animism, the Satan having a literal army of demons under his command
>>11041234>whats with Christians basically disregardimg the OT or at least just act as if it doesnt matter?Lost sheep. They play the role but don't care to learn or be taught. They go to church to feel religious for one day of the week but then spend 80 percent of their time in front of a television or video game and think they're on the highway to Heaven. Just because someone calls themselves a Christian doesn't mean that they truly are. They would know that the Old Testament is just as important as the New one because Jesus himself quoted from the Old Testament. Even during the road to Emmaus in Luke 24:13-35. Jesus had to fulfill Old Testament prophesy that was prophesied by the prophets of old. The coming of Christ was hinted all throughout the Old Testament. King David in Psalms 22:14-18, Isaiah 53:5, and various other scriptures in the Old Testament that hinted at what was to happen to the Messiah when he finally came on the scene several decades later. The Old Testament is just as important as the New Testament. Plenty of God's promises to claim for yourself and believe on when you pray when you read the Old Testament. Joshua 1:9 is a popular one. Same as Deuteronomy 31:6. Same as Deuteronomy 7:9. As well as 1 Peter 5:7. As well as 1 Corinthians 10:13. As well as many others. But more importantly, it is best to follow this commandment for your own sake: Joshua 1:8.
>>11043006cant forget about Luke 10:19
>>11042905The OT legalistic stuff wasn't intended to be universal rules for all humans. God had made a pact specifically with the Jews that he would free them from captivity if they would agree to be his representative people. This involved being set apart in behavior and every other way from the common people of the Earth, the rules were for them and them alone. And some of those rules were specifically for the Levite priesthood on top of that. And remember, the whole thing traces back to humans separating ourselves from God by choosing sin back when we had it so easy that the one and only rule was not to eat from a certain tree.So all along throughout, there were prophesies of a future messiah, and it's all supposed to ultimately result in reconciliation between us and God, but apparently most of the Jews had it into their minds that the messiah was going to be a warlord in the common earthly sense and was going to conquer earthly enemies and all that. In actuality, Jesus came and defeated our true enemies, Sin and Death, and gave us an "updated" framework for what is asked/expected of us.
>>11043105Oh, and I meant to mention that it opened up with the Gentiles being grafted in, as a further contrast to what I explained with the original pact with the Jews and Levites, etc.
>>11043105>This involved being set apart in behavior and every other way from the common people of the EarthWhat do you think being a Christian is? Why else would Paul call new believers the circumcision in Philippians 3:3? When you become a believer, you have to do away with the old lifestyle you once had. The hours spent on Netflix, the 40 tabs of porn on each of your 2 or 3 of your smart devices, talking recklessly, constantly thinking about sex. Alot of that stuff is known as idolatry anyway because you spend more time on it than in the scriptures. Humanity needs to take heed to Joshua 1:8 for the sake of their own soul and to be counted worthy on Judgment Day.
>>11043258Yeah no shit, but it doesn't involve not wearing mixed fabrics or eating shrimp, or elaborate rituals regarding periods and such.
Why the FUCK does no one know about supersessionism? It's a critical part of ALL Christian theology and thoroughly answers this question, yet still the question gets asked time and again and atheists use it as a "haha gotcha".No one in this thread has mentioned it either. Embarrassing.t. non-believer
>>11041234>Is it just cope for the supposed historical inaccurates in the OT?No, this began before the OT was known to have historical inaccuracies. Christianity came from Judaism, but obviously the writers of the OT did not see Christianity coming. Christian apologists had to reinterpret the OT to make their religion fit onto the OT and to justify Jesus as the Messiah. Part of this is just part of a general trend in Antiquity of using the allegorical method of interpretation in religious texts. The OT essentially became important only so far as it justified the NT since that was the real core of Christian orthodoxy.
>>11043441My mistake. Still, this has been settled for thousands of years and people still bring it up as a gotcha.
>>11041234>its either you believe your whole religion is real or you think the whole thing is fake unless the religion itself says you can think otherwise.Brainlets never cease to amaze me. You are an absolute moron.
>>11043486>people still bring it up as a gotchaPeople are retarded, news at 11.
>>11043495Yeah I think it's kinda just a tendency that happens when there's a radical shift in a religious tradition along with new texts. I've heard that Mormons view the (classic) Bible as unimportant just like most Christians view the OT and Islam kinda does the same thing, except that the Bible, even though it is the source material for many stories referenced in the Quran, is not typically read in a religious setting.
>>11043381That stuff stopped being relevant after that thick veil ripped in half in the temple when Christ was crucified. Notice how animal sacrifices stopped being a thing after the crucifixion? Alot of that old stuff stopped being relevant.
>>11041234the old law no longer applies
>>11043570Most Jews at the time weren't sacrificing animals even before the crucifixion. Sacrifice had become a thing only for a small group of priests at the Jerusalem temple, and laymen would only be involved in it if they made a pilgrimage to Jerusalem for passover. All Christianity did was eliminate this vestigial limb before Judaism was forced to by Hadrian.
>>11043105This is what I mean. In Exodus the Law demands that any infraction be repaid in kind - I believe the text is “an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth” - which betrays the worldly, rather than Divine, provenance of the code - it is obviously similar to the legal codes of the neighbouring nations. Jesus, however, tells us to turn the other cheek - to repay violence not with more violence, but with disdain.
>>11043631>it is obviously similar to the legal codes of the neighbouring nations.it actually depends on the time period and nation a lot
>>11043486what im talking about isnt that Christians forget about the laws my point is that Christians seem to act like it doesn't exist and say its allegory or straight up isnt true. completely different
>>11043495how am i wrong retard?
>>11043576it should still be considered history. my point was that Christians literally say the OT is fake
>>11043681What christians say that? Genesis doesn't have to be taken literally (it isn't allegory either) according to Catholic doctrine but believing it's all allegorical nonsense isn't a mainstream Christian view in any denomination that I'm aware of.
>>11043631Seems to me God wanted to reveal his ways through contrasts. People had already come up with "eye for an eye" type systems, God wanted to show just how poor of a plan that was by actually enforcing it against his own extremely strict code so that people could see just how far from purity we really are, not just in small surface ways, but to the deepest core. It's the only way to learn just how serious sin actually is, and how strong of a force it is.
>>11042558Catholics believe in Replacement Theology, which substitutes the blessings of Israel in the OT with the Church of the NT. The only problem is that they would also have to inherit the cursings that go along with that, which are more numerous than the blessings, so they basically set themselves up for destruction.The true nature of the OT in regards to NT doctrine is as a schoolmaster that prepares us for Christ and shows us why it's necessary for Him to die for our sins. Israel is dead, but the lessons of her story still inform us of spiritual matters to this day.
>>11042696>Christians also place an ungodly amount of trust in what Paul says without even knowing he is the one who wrong more than half of the New Testament.What?
>>11042576My Catholic church and school in Alabama, USA taught it often. Orthodox worshippers teach it even be more.
>>11043655What I mean is this is a typical Bronze Age legal mindset.
ot isn't inaccurate if you follow a non masoretic based version
>>11043821Supposed to be wrote instead of wrong I think
>>11042576Are you stupid or have you just never even been to a catholic mass? They literally have their first reading from the OT and more often than not use it combined with the 2nd reading or the gospel to provide a homily for the church before going to do the offerings
>>11042830Sorry anon i made a reply before seeing this
>>11044959you stupid nigger you misinterpreted what i said. read my other reply to the other niggas
>>11042030>Catholics have a liturgy strongly influenced from the OT liturgy, with sacrifices swapped out for eucharist.I want to disagree with you but I can't.
>>11041234>>11041243They're probably not Christians Matthew 5:17John 8:58John 14:15>>11042905>New Testament message is completely different and, in my opinion, fundamentally opposed to the Old Testament.It's not.See the verses I mentioned above. Also, in the OT: Isaiah 55:7