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If you read about Japanese soldiers in WW2 they were unimaginably brave. They sacrificed everything they had for their country despite facing a massively superior enemy. On the other hand the Americans were fat lazy mutts who preferred to sit back and bombard the Japanese rather than giving them a fair and honorable fight. They were even too cowardly to invade Japan so they had to nuke them instead. By all rights Japan should have won the war but they didn't.

What made the Japanese lose the war? That they were fighting on multiple fronts? The endless hordes of Americans? The vast resources that the Americans stole from the Natives?
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They didn't lose. They're still out there somewhere... waiting.
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>>10512263
Listen to Supernova in the east by fan carlin and stop being such a pathetic weebo
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>>10512263
>massively superior enemy.
>preferred to sit back and bombard the Japanese rather than giving them a fair and honorable fight.
Yeah how did they lose against them?
Grow up.
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>>10512263
America essentially funded the entire ally effort to the point the USSR was still paying them back during the cold war. It's a miracle Japan even lasted as long as it did.
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>>10512263
Autism, on a tactical and strategic level. They built massive battleships and only sent them out on suicide runs at the end of the war (a level of turboautism that was only matched by Germany’s tank design doctrine), they had a delusional sense of superiority (also only matched by Germany) which made them believe they could declare war on a massively powerful country that didn’t even want war with them in the first place and win, and this same autistic sense of superiority led them to believe that cooperation with their only ally was useless because they were so invincible that they could win everything on their own.

/his/tards will deny this all they want, but the reality is that had they invested more into the army rather than the navy (and gone with the army’s strike north to the USSR plan as opposed to the navys be retarded dumb niggers plan), and had they communicated with germany and launched a coordinated attack on the USSR, the USA would not have intervened (80% of US population was against the war pre pearl harbor, and this wasn’t like the cold war USA where they want to stick their fingers in the worlds business), AND had they been a LITTLE bit nicer to the chink/conquered populations (maybe just making them second class citizens or indentured servants instead of, ya know, raping and murdering and raping them again), then the Imperial Japanese forces could have recruited many sympathetic people to their cause, and assisted in dismantling the USSR from the East (inb4 muh siberia is useless, there was a fuckton of oil in Eastern Russia that people knew about but just didnt exploit, delusional retarded faggots will deny this but that doesnt make it untrue)
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>>10512340
Even if the invasion of the Eastern USSR yielded little material gain (which it wouldn’t), it would still secure northern china for the Japs, and result in them having to stress less about a potential soviet invasion, thus freeing up whatever troops were not involved in the invasion to be used elsewhere. The Navy could supply independence movements in India and continue to fuck up the British (as they did in our timeline) as well as any other allied (non USA) colonies in the vicinity.

The biggest operational risk would be the US having a hold on the Phillipines, but Pre Cold War USA was not about to send Americans to die for some chink countries or European colonies, so as long as America was not attacked first their contributions in the war would not exceed lend lease support. So as long as they avoided attacking Americans, America would remain isolationist (once again, retarded faggots will deny this but its true nonetheless)

Had they been a tiny bit nicer to the chinese (who werent being very nice to each other during the civil war in the first place) they could have cultivated a loyal following, and possible even had Chinese born IJA troops doing a majority of the anti partisan and security work within China proper.

Not to mention staking out the massive oil fields in Western China/central USSR.

Of course, none of this would happen because Japan was as autistic as Germany in their sense of superiority, believing that one Jap could destroy an entire battalion with a single banzai charge. They didn’t want to make friends with the locals and preferred to just rape and torture them while providing absolutely no benefit to being ruled by them (making the British and American imperialists seem angelic in comparison)

TL;DR they could have won if they were more strategic and less self assured and also less fucking maniacally sadistic, but didn’t and couldn’t for these very reasons.
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willpower doesnt win wars
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>>10512263
Probably because the whole point of effective strategy is to minimize your own casualties which the Americans excelled at due to the fact they didn't need to conduct retarded zerg rushes, also its funny you complain about muh honor when Japan began the war with a surprise attack then spent most of it on the defensive by building a bunch of fortifications so the Americans had to be the ones to attack them and despite them having said forts they still took far more casualties.
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>>10512390
Japan was planning on attacking the USSR but the US embargo prevented that.
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>>10512263
Tech gap was too much to overcome
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>>10512263
If the Americans hadn't been so lucky, things would've turned out marginally better for the japs than what actually happened
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They lost because the U.S. literally has every resource known to man. And they could never match the production capacity or amount of people the U.S. would send to get revenge for muh Pearl Harbor.
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>>10512263
>cannibals and rapists
>honourable
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turns out that mg's and arty beats starving men with long bayonets
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>>10512263
>f you read about Japanese soldiers in WW2 they were unimaginably brave.
Be super brave Jap soldiers on way to Wuxi.
Find a pregnant chink.
Rape her and then split her stomach open to bayonet her infant.
So brave, so courageous, so honorable.
Too bad they ran into men with guns that fought back like the Americans.
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>>10512263
Bravery doesn't matter. Skill doesn't matter.

Industry wins wars. Japanese could win at Midway, Iwo Jima, whatever, it wouldn't matter, Americans would just come with more army few months later.
Pearl Harbor was the only chance IMO, if they destroyed more ships there, their plan of getting land quickly and asking for peace before US rebuilds its navy might have worked. They never had a chance of winning and they knew it.

In same way, Germany didn't lose the war because they were stuck in mud or whatever, it's because Russians could mass produce weapons and had more coal, iron, oil. German original plan was to take the oil fields, not Moscow, Leningrad... but some retards changed that.
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>>10512838
world is imperfect, otherwise japan would have won
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>>10512263
>fat lazy mutts who preferred to sit back and bombard the Japanese rather than giving them a fair and honorable fight
>wahhhh muh honorable fight
you lost tojo, get over it.
you "people" deserved more than 2 nukes
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>>10512340
>>10512390
Japan didnt learn its lessons from the russo Japanese War or the first world war and their doctrine against the Russians was pure fantasy. Intangibles like kokutai won't make up for not having quality artillery. For a nation that modernized so quickly their army was thoroughly unmodern in anything beyond the tactical level. Russia gets a bad rep against the Germans but the Red Army was far more modern than the Japanese in its ability to adapt.

I think Japan shouldve put the army before the navy in budgeting hindsight but I dont see Japan fixing its institutional problems within the Army by the mid 30s.
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Lol another American seethe thread. Why are you so obsessed?
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>>10512340
> and had they communicated with germany and launched a coordinated attack on the USSR
The Germans made no attempts at coordinating their Soviet policy with the Japanese. The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact literally caused the Japanese Prime Minister's government to fall. Then after Japan followed Germany's lead in signing a non-aggression pact with the USSR, the Germans broke it and started a war, then couldn't even win that war in the 1941 campaign season.
>the Imperial Japanese forces could have recruited many sympathetic people to their cause
Chinese had been nationalist for decades by that point. There were collaborators (most famously Wang Jingwei), but the masses were passively|actively against them and more collaborators wouldn't solve their problems.
>there was a fuckton of oil in Eastern Russia that people knew about but just didnt exploit,
The USSR took decades to figure out how to extract that oil in decent quantity. Japan couldn't possibly do it in the <2 years before their oil reserves ran dry.
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>>10514973
Not that anon but I think maybe the other asian nation's they invaded would have reacted more kindly. IIRC there was some country that was looking forward to Japanese occupation only to get fucked both literally and figuratively.
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>>10512263
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>>10512263
>no mobile artillery
>no industrial capacity to continue ship production
>no mechanism to train new pilots
>no good landing craft
>antiquated small arms and infantry tactics
>horrible geographic position
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>>10512340
most of their battleships were refits from the interwar period

The 2 yamato classes were the only new battleships and right after midway the scraped plans for a third Yamato and turned it into the Shinano carrier. Japan new the power of carrier operations and thats why the rolled everything they had into the combined fleet
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>>10512263
As the frogs learned the hard way in 1914, bravery doesn't stop bullets.
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>>10512263
Bravery doesn't stop bullets.
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>>10512263
Memes, all memes, the Japanese still lost when the playing field got evened out like on Tarawa, Peleliu, Okinawa and Saipan. On Guadalcanal the Marines were isolated and cut off from resupply, if the japs weren’t retarded they could’ve easily overrun them. Peleliu and Tarawa was a man for man slugfest and the Marines and US Army still came out on top and nearly wiped out their entire garrison, the biggest urban battle of the Pacific war was street to street fighting between the IJA and US Army and the Army beat them in close quarters fighting, same story in Okinawa and Iwo Jima. Need I go on?
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>>10512838
You know meme posts like this always imply that the combat ability of the individual Japanese soldier is superior to that of the American infantry in order to bait as many people reply, if he wasn’t retarded he’d know industry wins wars and he wouldn’t be shitposting. Truth is the Japanese infantryman was outclassed by American infantryman in nearly every field
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They thought banzai charges were an effective tactic, just goes to show how retarded they were during ww2
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>>10512263
MacArthur was just more cunning than a couple of banzai chinks
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>>10512263
>>10515280


A lot of posters fail to get that Japan lost its stand up land battles with the US, Russia, and before it started to use poison gas it had a hard time of it in Northern China. The only army it did well against was the UK.


>>10512340
Lets be real here, they were going to start another war with China after the Japanese invasion of Manchuria 1929 and the US would not just accept another Japanese land grab without embargos.
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>>10515214
Don't forget they had better long-range patr submarines than the US did but didn't pay any attention to ww1 other than Jutland despite having destroyers do convoy escort in the Mediterranean for the allies.

Japanese subs off the west coast couldve done some actual damage or at least made allied shipping more of a headache.
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>>10512263
>'superior' force is technological and strategically inferior
lol
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>>10514495
Your anime-pillow will never be a real woman
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>>10515327
They were
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>>10515280
>Peleliu and Tarawa was a man for man slugfest
Battleship, airplane, tank, superior numbers for man, you mean.

All those battles had massively gimped odds, and still you had US troops taking disproportionate losses even with cruisers and battleships on their backs and corsairs & hellcats over their heads and shermans on their rights and lefts.
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>>10515597
Retard, attackers will always take more casualties than the defenders but the Japanese still managed to take more casualties on direct combat anyways, the majority and the bloodiest fighting was in the Umurbrogol mountains where they couldn’t get tanks to go, multiple bombing runs proved the Japanese were dug in too deep and most Marine regiments who went in to fight were already suffering 30-40 percent casualties and they still managed to push them back through sheer force of will and close combat. The fighting on Tarawa was too close to safely do bombing runs and most of the craft carrying the armor got rekt on the coral reefs, Tarawa and Peleliu were total slugfests and if the memes were true then the japs should’ve won. But they didn’t because it’s all memes, the Marines and US Army bested them in close combat and all the cope in the world won’t change that.
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>>10514432
The most impressive part of the red army is how fast they adapted, mid campaign they changed their whole doctrine
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>>10515641
>attackers will always take more casualties than the defenders
If the attackers have total air and sea control, tanks, superior infantry weapons and superior numbers? No they fucking don't. Ask Iraq. Or France.
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>>10512263
They were the real men of the war. The ones with the biggest balls of them all. That's why a man goes to war, to die, not win. America was, is, and will always be full of cowardly soijaks. No wonder Japan is such a pathetic pedoweeb shithole now thanks to American influence.
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They failed to win a decisive naval battle against the US. That's basically it. They already knew they couldn't win a protracted war with the US because the US had too many resources. They were gunning for the kind of victory over the US like they had against the Russians that would force the US to negotiate peace. They failed horribly at Midway because the US had the element of surprise and a bit of luck in the battle.
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>>10516019
Jesus this is delusion.
>>10512483
KeK no they weren't. They were already fighting a two front war, why the fuck would they open a third front against an enemy that had kicked their ass a decade prior. The number one thing we know about Japan in WW2 is they weren't going to invade the USSR.
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>>10516077
> that had kicked their ass a decade prior.
The most famous border battle, Khalkin Gol, was 1939.
> they weren't going to invade the USSR.
The IJA seriously considered a 1942 invasion (even with the Pacific War looming, supposedly), but pulled out after it became clear in December 1941 that the USSR was not imminently going to fall.
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>>10516077
>Jesus this is delusion.
That's it? Weak.
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>>10516201
He is right you retarded weebshit.
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Bravery and elan aren't terribly effective against maxim guns and artillery.
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>>10512263
Bravery doesn't make you immune to bullets, explosions and fire.
>What made the Japanese lose the war? That they were fighting on multiple fronts? The endless hordes of Americans? The vast resources that the Americans stole from the Natives?
Inability for IJN and IJA to stop being retarded and actually work together properly.
Muh honorabu death! Leading to wasting resources on pointless last stands.
Low on everything from food to fuel. Takahashi didn't survive off a bowl of rice for a week because he wanted to be hardcore.
Being absolutely hopelessly outnumbered and out produced by an opponent that they had no hope of properly attacking.
Deciding to declare war on said enemy while already have a fuckload of dudes bogged down in China and SEA.
>By all rights Japan should have won the war but they didn't.
lol ok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9ag2x3CS9M
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>>10516077
At the time of the US embargo they were only fighting a one front war with China. I agree that they wouldn’t attack the USSR while they were fighting the US but they were planning on doing so before that. In the summer of 1941 the Japanese implemented the Kantokuen plan to increase the Kwantung army’s strength and prepare for an offensive into the USSR. This was of course before the US embargoed Japan from receiving oil and other raw materials which cancelled any move against the USSR from ever taking place.
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>>10515304
>combat ability of the individual Japanese soldier is superior to that of the American infantry
But it was you retard. The Japanese soldier trained hard and relentlessly, he even was beaten daily by his superiors but he still was so committed to his country he not only expected to die for it, he WANTED to die for it. Meanwhile Americans were retarded fat mutts who struggled at any serious opposition. They always relied on massive naval, armor and aerial support to get anywhere. When the Americans struggled to put up with the brutal conditions of jungle warfare that the Japanese were so good in, they started mutilating Japanese corpses in petty revenge.

Today Americans fight just the same, like the pussy cowards they are, calling in airstrikes and armor support whenever their infantry"men" face any serious determined opposition. Meanwhile Japanese chads were doing banzai charges against American machine gunners and still won sometimes.
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>>10515597
Still after Savo Island it was Japan that had all the naval and air advantages in Guadalcanal for 3 months and they totally failed to capitalize on it despite outnumbering the US 3:1
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>>10516976
This. They had the advantage in the Solomons and they were bested mano a mano.
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>>10516976
>it was Japan that had all the naval and air advantages in Guadalcanal for 3 months
lol no. The USN had a fleet carrier nearby, the nips didn't for most of the campaign and only had light carrier support.
Also the mutts had a major airfield across at Lunga point, Henderson. So they had air superiority. IJN/IJAAF aircraft flying into the hotzone across Ironbottom were deep inside hostile airspace and were subject to both ground and naval AA.
It was for a very important reason that the mutts secured air superiority for the majority of the campaign on Guadalcanal by capturing Henderson and destroying the IJNAAF Seaplane base at Tulagi (where ~800 IJNAAF personnel, mostly pilots, maintenance crews and construction personnel, inflicted over 300 casualties on a much larger marine force that landed on the Islands). The Japanese couldn't reliably supply Guadalcanal for the vast majority of the campaign. If you weren't a retarded historylet you would know this was the focal point of the campaign; the Japanese suffered logistically. Most logistic runs by cargo ships had to be done at night. There was barely any Japanese heavy equipment on the Island aside from a couple howitzers and the small independent detachment of 9 tanks that were landed to support the failed offensive to retake the airfield. Over 80% of the lost troops in Guadalcanal on the Japanese side were due to logistical issues from starvation to lack of adequate medical care, and for the entirety of the campaign the ground forces were outnumbered and outgunned by the mutts.
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>>10516976
>>10517019
Where the fuck do you illiterate cretins crawl out from? The IJN was never able to cut off Guadalcanal. It was far enough away from the main base at Rabaul that IJN aircraft physically could not keep a consistent presence over the island, nor was an IJN surface or carrier force ever able to do more than raids after the US seized the island. Even though the US transports temporarily retreated following 1st Savo, they had still landed 11k men compared to less than a thousand Japanese troops. The first IJA reinforcements, the Ichiki detachment, consisted of less than a thousand men, and throughout the campaign Japanese troop strength lagged behind US troop strength on the island. To say nothing of the Japanese inability to land extra rations and heavy equipment (artillery, heavy mortars, extra ammunition, etc.) due to Allied airpower based at Lunga.
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>>10516942
They also had thousandfold folded katanas that could cut American battleships in two, if only the dishonorabru white piggus would just sail closer.
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>>10516942
Seethe more loser, we kick everyone else's ass and the death toll we leave attests to that. Also we were like twice the size of a Japanese soldier so even taking away the weapons we'd mangle them. D-Day also attests to our combat capability.
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>>10517076
>>10517094
The only fucking cretin here, is you dumb fuck weebshit autist. US marines literally slaughtered over 3000 thousand nips while only loosing few of their own troops in October of 1942. US was completely cut off from any support you dumb fucktard, and at one point IJN has complete advantage over US navy. Despite that, US marines still prevailed and outfought nipshits. They were superior soliders
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>>10517418
Argument not detected.
Back to McDunks mutty mcmutt. Your country is collapsing while you're arguing about your mutt ancestor's KDA ratio on Guadalcanal.
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>>10517076
Tulagi had an IJN marine garrison, and there was ferocious fighting there until that could be extinguished.

Henderson Field wasn't fully operational and equipped for some weeks. The Japanese on Guadalcanal were repelled before then.
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For a small (even if advanced) nation such as Japan to get into a war with the US, would always result in defeat.

But the Japanese intention wasn't this. The simple Japanese intention was to eliminate the American Pacific fleet (at pearl harbor), thus neutralising American influence, and then make peace with America.

However that plan failed and the Pacific fleet was not destroyed. From that point on, Japan was on a path to defeat.

Their Navy & airforce was also inferior to US.

Finally, bravery alone does not win a modern war. Industrial power & production does.
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>>10515454
>anime pillow
Sorry I'm not a degenerate who fucks inanimate objects.
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>>10516201
>the object of war is to die not win
Yes this is delusion.
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>>10517436
We have already destroyed your retarded arguments, you weebshit.
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>>10517436
Holy shit the cope whataboutism is real. Why does America make you seethe so much? Why do you suck tiny Jap cock so much?
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Zero fucking logistics paired with a comparitively much smaller industrial base

Bravery and honour don't count for shit if you're half-starved and nearly out of bullets because you don't have anywhere near enough cargo ships to sustain garrisons at reserve strength nevermind combat strength (and that's even before the American submarines start sinking them all)

Meanwhile air support isn't arriving to save your ass because the ox cart pulling the new plane from the Mitsubishi factory broke its axle and the plane fell off the cart and broke.

The few supplies that do make it to the miserable island you're stuck on are poorly distributed because the IJA doesn't think it needs a properly trained logistics corps and leaves such jobs to half-trained retards who don't even know how to operate a rifle, nevermind efficiently distribute ammo for the rifles, because they literally only complete half the training of a regular soldier and get spat on by regular soldiers because baggage boys aren't super cool honorable samurai.

Nearly every problem with the Japanese war experience was due to logistics.
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>>10517483
Wasn’t Soviet influence more threatening to their China territories than the US?
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>>10517447
>Tulagi had an IJN marine garrison, and there was ferocious fighting there until that could be extinguished.
Tulagi and the two smaller adjacent islands had about 900 SNLF troops, and the Marines landed over 3000 on those three islands. They didn't flee like the several hundred on Guadalcanal did, but the outcome was never in doubt. Tulagi was secured the day after the landings, August 8th, and the two smaller islands on August 9th.

>Henderson Field wasn't fully operational and equipped for some weeks
Henderson Field had Marine fighter and dive bomber squadrons operating from it from August 20, 13 days after the landings began. On August 22, it received an Army P-400 squadron.

>The Japanese on Guadalcanal were repelled before then.
Considering that the Japanese were still building up strength and attempting to clear the island of US forces well into November, no the Marines had not repelled the Japanese from Guadalcanal by August 20.
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>>10517539

The Soviets were a threat, but they were held at bay with diplomacy (ie: Japan refusing to attack USSR when Germany did).

Stalin did invade Japanese territory in 1945, but it seems it was more of a "stabbing a dying corpse" than something he would have done had Japan stood strong.

But yes, you are correct that Japan sharing a border with USSR means USSR was more of a threat to them.

However USA made themselves the prime threat due to their interference:
1. Cutting their oil exports to Japan. Which meant Japan would starve in a couple months.
2. Telling Japan that they would declare war if they continued getting involved in Pacific & Asia/China/etc.

In a sense, Japan was forced into a war with the US. Which records prove this was Roosevelt's plan all along.
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>>10517523
Their logistics worked fine against everybody but the Americans.
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>>10517540
The initial Japanese assault had been repelled, which was what might have dislodged the Americans from the airfield and perhaps Guadalcanal itself.

My compliments on your regurgitation of wiki.
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>>10517436
Holy fuckin cope, not only was the US smart for using everything it’s got in its disposal to win, they still won in multiple times it fought against the Japs on even grounds. The Solomon and New Britain is the perfect example of how the terrain made the use of tanks and air power difficult, on Cape Gloucester the Marines had to get on line and march into the jungle because their tanks could get through the thick forest and the tree cover protected the japs against air strikes. The Marines wiped out the Japanese garrison there and the infantrymen did it personally, during the battle of Okinawa the Japs wasted an entire paratrooper regiment trying support an amphibious landing on the western coast against the US Army that was spread thin and suffering from heavy casualties and they quite literally all got killed, over 300 japs in one night were gunned down on the beach by beat up, exhausted soldiers who had been fighting non stop for weeks. Need I go on?
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>10517605
>no refutation
>y-you're using wikipedia!!!!
like pottery, and par for the course for this shithole of a website
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>>10512263
The Japanese had the worst weapons of any country. The Type 38 Arisaka was underpowered and the Type 99 exploded with regular ammo. The machine guns were heavy junk and they had not enough SMGs. Their entire arsenal was shit.
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>>10512263
Being skinny four-eyed manlets. A group of grown men will almost always triumph over a group of adolescent kids, no matter how brave they are. That's what the Japanese were compared to Americans physique-wise.
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>>10512263
they lost cause they sucked. Soviets btfo'd them in Manchuria and their fleet was btfo'd by the Americans. They had crap strategy and were overambitious
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>>10512263
tfw you honorably cut the noses off of POWs after you murder them to put them into the honorable ear shrine but the american noses are too big to fit in the shrine so you lose the war
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>>10517962

Americans were worst soldiers if you compare USA - USSR - JAPAN - GERMANY though.

Most prone to run, break discipline, and rely on industrial advantage rather than break the enemy with infantry.

The Japanese were extremely fearsome soldiers who really made up for their smaller size.

If they had attacked the USSR in the East along with Germany in the West, USSR would have been butt fucked.
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>>10512263
Because the line between bravery and outright stupidity is sometimes very thin.
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>>10518660
1. japan got skullfucked by the soviets in mongolia you braindead weaboo
2. the IJA was 100% light infantry who believed in getting close in to mitigate industrial disadvantages, you talk about muh honor and muh bravery but it's just doctrine
3. people talk about how poor of soldiers americans are but americans utterly annihilated all comers during the war
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>>10518660
>rely on industrial advantage rather than break the enemy with infantry
t. retard who doesn't know how war works
the only nations in ww2 who understood how to fight a modern war were the americans and arguably the brits
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>NOOOOOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T DO THE MOST EFFECTIVE WORK YOU CAN WITH THE RESOURCES AVAILABLE, PRESERVING YOUR LIFE TO ADVANCE A GOAL LARGER THAN YOURSELF, YOU HAVE TO BE A FUCKING DRAMA QUEEN AND NEEDLESSLY SQUANDER YOUR LIFE THE OFFICERS TOLD ME SOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
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>american soldiers are bad becuase they use their advantages instead of throwing their lives away needlessly
this might be the biggest cope of ww2 that doesn't stem from the brits getting their assholes annihilated
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>>10518660
>If they had attacked the USSR in the East

They did. They were absolutely booty blasted by Based Georgy Zhukov.
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>>10518720
>Based Georgy Zhukov
let's not jerkoff zhukov too much, the only soviet general who deserves to be wanked is rokossovsky, zhukov is just as undeserving of his reputation as rommel is of his
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>>10512263
>massively superior enemy
>preferred to sit back and bombard the Japanese
anon, the answer is literally in your post, I don't see where the confusion is
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>>10518735
>routed Japs
>routed Krauts

pretty based imo.
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>>10518743
OP's one of those fags who doesn't realize that after ~1650 or so you can't overcome massive disparities in strength by just being hyperaggressive and militarized
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The Japanese were doomed against the US. There was no way they could defeat them, and then they made the blunder of pissing them off with a sneak attack.
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>>10518743
this
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>>10518720
Zhukov was distracted by the Germans at the time, which left no generals of similar caliber in the east.
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>>10518863
Oh, they should have tried invading the USSR again, after they got absolutely btfo in 1939?
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>>10518845
Fuck off, you retarded weebshit.
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>>10518883
After the Germans invaded, yeah. Invading a distracted USSR has better prospects for victory than fighting an untouched US.
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>>10512263
The autistic fucks were buried in a quagmire in China, then expanded the quagmire, were now spending upwards of 40-50% of GDP on their military, then woke up one day with a brilliant idea that would surely fix everything... Starting a war with the US.

The dumbfucks were lucky that the US had decided to fight nazis first, or they'd have been napalmed by 1943 if not earlier.
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>>10518922
I assumed that was part of the plan but China caused more trouble that anticipated
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>>10518845
Israel didn't exist in 1945 you fucking idiot.
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>>10518946
Anon, I think you're missing the point...
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>>10518941
China wasn’t capable of removing the Japanese from the mainland so they weren’t really a dire threat. The US embargo was what really prevented any Japanese attack on the USSR.
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>>10517492
Probably the only thing you'll ever get close to fucking, inanimate or not
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>>10512263
Apparently, it had to do with the soviet invasion of Karafuto prefecture in 1945.
Communists showing up on their doorstep made them realise capitulating to the Allies would be a viable option than becoming a cheap Knock-off of Communist China.
>>
>>10518939
>The dumbfucks were lucky that the US had decided to fight nazis first, or they'd have been napalmed by 1943 if not earlier.
Despite a Europe First policy on paper, Japan actually had more of the US effort allocated against it for the duration of the war. To the extent that Marshall and Hap Arnold both were pissed in 1942-43 that King was diverting huge amounts of aircraft and naval units to the South Pacific and Southwest Pacific theatres and preventing the early buildup they wanted in Europe in 1942, though in reality it wasn't as big a problem as they thought since the Brits were adamant that any attempt in mainland Europe was going to be doomed to failure that early in the game.

Strategic bombing of Japan proper by 1943, or even major carrier raids, was an impossibility since the new Essex fast carriers weren't ready for service until mid-1943 and there were quite a few Japanese bases in the Marshalls and Gilberts that, supported by Saipan and Rabaul, could have caused major issues for an immediate attempt at Saipan. And that's not even factoring in that the B-29 wasn't even ready for service until 1944, and even then it was having teething issues. For example, for the first 3 months of operations from Saipan, B-29s had a 21% mission abort rate and were carrying only 3,000lbs of bombs per aircraft. Fighting your way all the way across the Pacific takes a lot of time, and while there were some islands that the US could reasonably have bypassed to save time (Palau in particular comes to mind), a faster advance would have shortened the war by months at most, definitely not by years.
>>
>>10519102
The US had made the decision to abandon the Philippines almost immediately after PH. They'd been stripping resources from the Pacific for the previous year and more. If rather than occupying Iceland and other British holdings in the Atlantic Basin prewar, and investing huge resources into militarizing them, that effort had gone to the Pacific, the war there would have gone remarkably different. The Philippines with a full complement of naval fleet could have been contested, rather than abandoned.

You're thinking bombardment from the Marianas per historical. But it might have begun much earlier from the Philippines. The original PI defense disrupted Japanese timing, and they were forced to pause and reinforce the effort, delaying second phase operations significantly. Now imagine relief to that same position, rather than abandonment.
>>
>>10519044
Nice projection there weeb. Sorry you are too immaculate to actually save your dying race.
>>
>>10512263
They lost because they were military inferior and were out-fought by the yanks who had a better army, navy and army air force. The Yanks beat the Japanese in almost every land engagement, naval engagement, and eventually brought the sun down upon them, as the Japanese were fond of saying.

Sorry, but the IJA and IJN were inferior to the U.S Army and U.S Navy. Your post is wrong--- the Americans were the opposite of cowards.

The Japanese did fight brave but bravery =/= being a good fighter capable of winning or thinking strategically.
>>
>>10512263
LOL. The Japanese got bested man to man at Guadalcanal. Sorry, but it a pure Wehrafag subhuman cope to think the Japanese were better fighters to a man.

They were brave, I'll give them that, but the U.S fought just as well, and more strategically, and in the end won. Get over it. It was 70 something years ago.
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>>10518960
Why the Japanese didn't just contain the Chinese who couldn't have broken out, and focus a assault on the Soviets with Germany is a mystery to me.

Hell they could have cut down through Russia and into China if they had better coordination. Although likely the American sanctions would have kicked in by then.
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>>10518660
flatly false and major torofaggot cope
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>>10517436
Not only did the Americans outfight the Japanese, they did it so well that generations later the Japanese have lost all semblance of masculinity and are now nothing but a rotting shell of incels and child pornography disguised as cartoons.

You torofag weebs are a waste of oyxgen, who will never amount to anything, and will spend your life autistically screeching on the Internet in an attempt to re-write history and pretend daddy yankee didn't bayonet the asshole of your precious war criminal army until they cried uncle and begged for it to stop.
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>>10519275
>bayonet the asshole of your precious war criminal army until they cried uncle and begged for it to stop
g-go on
>>
>>10512263
>a fair and honorable fight
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>>10519245
The US sanctions were implemented due to the moves Japan was making in the south. After Japan occupied South Indochina in the summer of 41, the US bases in the Philippines were practically surrounded. Since this was a direct threat to US interests in the regions, Japan was immediately embargoed for the move. A Japanese invasion of the USSR wouldn’t pose a direct threat towards the American bases in the south so I doubt they would be embargoed for doing so.
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>>10519315
Good point
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>>10519156
>The US had made the decision to abandon the Philippines almost immediately after PH
Incorrect. US prewar planning going back to the 1920s assumed, and was correct in this assumption, that the Philippines was indefensible against a major Japanese offensive. The question was how long the Philippines would hold out.

>They'd been stripping resources from the Pacific for the previous year and more
They cut down on the US Army troops committed there, but they weren't stripping much else. The Philippines were one of the first areas to receive B-17s, and they operated from Manila until the encroaching Japanese forced them to withdraw to Darwin. The US Asiatic fleet had always been small and regarded as a backwater command, because the strategists were well aware that positioning a large fleet in the Philippines would be both an incredibly antagonistic move from the Japanese perspective, and would put that fleet to the severe risk of getting Pearl Harbor'd. And in this scenario, the US can't take its time returning all the sunken ships to duty.

>If rather than occupying Iceland and other British holdings in the Atlantic Basin prewar
Prewar the entirety of the US army was a couple hundred thousand men. This jumped in 1941 due to a peacetime draft, so while theoretically the manpower was there, these troops were fresh out of training. Their actual combat value would be dubious when you consider that it takes about a month for a 1-way trip from the west coast to Manila and that there's no guarantee the US is going to be able to spare the shipping to move multiple divisions simultaneously.
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>>10519156
>The Philippines with a full complement of naval fleet could have been contested
It would not have been contested. A full size fleet would have been sunk at anchor, and Japanese air and sea supremacy would then make it impossible for the US to effectively contest any landings. A land campaign would ensue, and the US forces would rapidly run out of food and ammunition as resupply from the US would be impossible.

>You're thinking bombardment from the Marianas per historical. But it might have begun much earlier from the Philippines.
While Japan is just barely in range, the bombers would have to fly over the Bonins, which have Japanese air bases. In addition, you have the issue that the home islands will have their own fighter defenses as well, and no fighter exists that's capable of escorting the bombers that far. Historically the US had to take Iwo Jima to provide fighter escort for B-29s based in the Marianas. It's a foolish idea, and one that pre-supposes that the US will both not lose its fleet to a surprise attack and that the IJN, which does have local superiority unless the US wants to strip everywhere else bare, is not going to be able to stop resupply convoys.

>The original PI defense disrupted Japanese timing, and they were forced to pause and reinforce the effort, delaying second phase operations significantly. Now imagine relief to that same position, rather than abandonment.
That's wrong though. The Japanese disrupted their own timing. They thought it was over far faster than it was because they had bottled up all of the American forces in Bataan. They then relieved their best division on the island to send it to Indonesia, replacing it with a garrison brigade. Their timetable for the Southern Resource Area was accelerated by a month. If the Americans are bulking up the Philippines with regular army units, the Japanese are going to notice this and devote more forces to taking the islands.
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>>10519465
>the Philippines was indefensible against a major Japanese offensive
Not without, relief, correct.


>they weren't stripping much else.
They were stripping, correct, while building up elsewhere in the war against the nazis. Now reverse those numbers. The airfields in England were being laid out in 1941 and earlier. England to the Pacific. Each single engine aircraft requires 25 personnel. Do the math. And then there's the naval units...

The US invaded Guadalcanal in August, and North Africa in November. There's shipping available, it was diverted to other targets.
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>>10519471
>It would not have been contested.
It could have been contested, is the point. Resupply is possible, that's the whole point, the PI cannot be abandoned as they were.

All other options become available, once the PI are held, but first they'd have had to abandon the nazi first plan and relieve the PI.

It is cope that you're claiming that the Japanese disrupted their own timing. The defense of the PI provided that disruption. They'd been stopped and had to reinforce, and that took time and a pause.
>>
The Philippines wouldve been much more defensible had the Americans pulled back to Bataan sooner instead of having their supply depots get overran because McArthur was a retard.
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>>10520372
>do what the bongs did in Singapore
>they roll over in 2 weeks time
huh?
>>
>>10518845
Where does pearl harbor fit into this meme.
Damn sneak attacking before a declaration of war is so honorable right?

Europeans know nothing.
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>>10520581
Japan fielded the least honorable military in all of WW2 lmao.
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>>10512263
>rather than giving them a fair and honorable fight.
The only unfair fight is the one you lose.

Every fight that has a clear victor was unfair. It's why one side lost.
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>>10520485
If congresses original defense plan was followed by McArthur they couldve held out in Bataan for months.
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>>10519543
>>10519563
Are you actually going to even try to refute anything I said, or are you just going to keep repeating your claim without backing it up?
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>>10516427
Japan was so shit scared of USSR, it didn't intercept American Lend Lease going to them, or Soviet aid going to China (while they still had ports). Compare to USS Panay.
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>>10512263
Supply problems. If the US went toe to toe with an equally supplied Japan America would get beat to shit. Simple as
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>>10520711
Macarthur's plan was the general staff's plan, long approved.
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>>10520806
You've made unsupported assertions, lad, not much concrete that I can make out.
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>>10521108
>location of Japanese bases is an unsupported assertion
>local superiority of Japanese naval, air, and army forces is an unsupported assertion
>lack of manpower and shipping for 1940-41 USA is an unsupported assertion
>the extreme risk this poses to US naval and air forces is an unsupported assertion
read a book then kys
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>>10515344
>The only army it did well against was the UK.
That hurts
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>>10521165
You're claiming that the Japanese invasion of the PI could not be contested. You're claiming that the Pacific Theater wasn't stripped for years before. You're claiming that the shipping going to other theaters did not exist.

You're just a fantasist, lad, with no historical knowledge whatsoever.
>>
Was being an American tank crewman in the Pacific probably the safest combat job in the war?
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>>10521222
*drowns*
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>>10521229
What was the safest then do you think?
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>>10521177
The jap army did about as well off the bat against the UK as it did against the US, so I don't really know what he's talking about.
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>>10521260
We did get btfo by them tbf. Although the Burma campaign seems quite cool
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>>10521260
Malaya and Burma and Singapore rolled over in days. Corregidor held out for many months.
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>>10521259
US soldier occupying southern Italy.
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>>10521229
>>10521259
Submarine crew perhaps?
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>>10521290
Thought the Italian campaign was quite brutal? Occupation isn't really what I was thinking. Jobs where you engage the enemy
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>>10512263
These savage insectoids were lucky the amerimutts only had the two working bombs. Ten nukes would not have been sufficient recompense for their many crimes.
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>>10512263
you can be brave as much as you want, but you can't win if you are stupid and are incapable of thinking any more than a month into the future. also decisive battle doctrine is pants on head retarded, and that's not even hindsight bias
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>>10515280
why do you americans ignore your sea battles in the pacific which were way more important then then the shitty island hopping battles.
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>>10522096
I’m dealing with a retard baiting other retards (like me) about land battles, the naval battles of the pacific were absolutely historic, there has never been naval that big in history and hasn’t been since. I’ve met naval veterans of battles like the battle of the Philippine Sea, they were insane and chaotic
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>>10512263
The Japanese were at an absolutely massive disadvantage in terms of manufactuing and resources and basically everything you can imagine. The Japanese plan had always been to strike quick and hard and hope to god that they could shock the Americans into suing for an armistice, because in any kind of protracted war they would be crushed, as they were.

Also most of Japan's best units were entrenched in China which had quickly turned into a massive drain on Japan's already strained resourced.
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>>10515480
They were if you thought that spooking some US troops was worth suiciding entire squadrons.
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>>10512263
>my. On the other hand the Americans were fat lazy mutts who preferred to sit back and bombard the Japanese
Ok disregarding your retardation let's look at this from the one dimensional view of suicidal counterattackers vs an opponent who lobs bombs at you from 20 miles away. Which one do you think will die first?
>rather than giving them a fair and honorable fight
Fair and honorable? The Japanese sneak attacked the Americans constantly and still lost despite employing every nasty trick you could imagine ranging from traps to biological warfare
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>>10512700
>if you read about Japanese soldiers in WW2 they were unimaginably brave.
Like that time they fled from a numerically inferior expeditionary force and got eaten by salt water crocodiles? How about that time they committed mass suicide during the American landing on Okinawa?
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>>10512838
>asking for peace before US rebuilds its navy might have worked.
You'd be foolish to think that 1940s Americans had so little pride.
>>10516942
>The Japanese soldier trained hard and relentlessly
Their navy's inferior performance to the Americans in every department ranging from damage control to accuracy to rate of fire disputes this claim.
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>>10512263
>who preferred to sit back and bombard the Japanese rather than giving them a fair and honorable fight
The Japanese did the same thing and assaults here conducted by both sides if you call that a 'fair fight'. And since that is partially the effective reason behind many of their victories you answered your own question.
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>>10521195
You've made up all this bullshit. You're deliberately ignoring the issues with trying to prevent an invasion of the Philippines, trying to resupply forces in the Philippines, and bombing Japan from the Philippines. You're sitting here pretending that the US strategic situation re: manpower and transport capacity in mid 1942 is the same as in 1941. You have no idea how much that situation changed due to mobilization efforts in 1940 and 41. And you're sitting here trying to claim that decades of US strategic planning was wrong and that you've found the wisdom everyone else missed.

>initial attacks
The chain has so many locations that an enemy could land that it is effectively impossible to contest the landings. The Japanese in 1944 had around 380k men on Luzon alone IIRC, and over 60k on Leyte, but they were still deliberating where to put the bulk of their forces literally up until they got word of the US landings. That's more men on Luzon than the entire US Army of 1940, and about 3x the numerical strength of combined US and Filipino forces in the islands as of December 1941.

Historically the only opposition to Japanese landings was scattered and ineffectual submarine and B-17 attacks, and this would not change even if you doubled the army manpower in the islands. Historically, there were landings at multiple locations across more than 150 miles of distance on Luzon alone. Nothing prevents the Japanese, thanks to local air and naval superiority, from simply sailing and landing somewhere else, and that somewhere else could be an adjacent island unreachable by your ground troops or a hundred miles up the coast from where you're trying to contest. In addition, the Japanese would certainly notice an increase in American forces committed to the Philippines, and as a result would increase their own forces committed to the operation. The US cannot just throw extra divisions into the Philippines without them noticing and accounting for it.
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>>10515927
>Ask Iraq.
Oh you mean the most exceptional land war of all time? The one where an outnumbered attacker won because they had a several generation advantage in electronic intelligence equipment and fucking images from space? The one where most of the defenders were already dead because of guided munitions and the rest were facing tanks so superior to there own they might as well have fought them on foot? God you're retarded, please drink bleach.
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>>10521195
>resupply
After WWI, Japan gained the old German holdings in the Palau group, the Marshalls, the Gilberts, and the Carolines. Islands in these chains were then turned into bases for the IJN, and these bases sit directly astride the sea lanes from the US to the Philippines. Kwajalein especially was prepped as a submarine base for the coming war. What the Philippines go to war with is all they have unless they are resupplied from the US, and the bases on these islands present a severe risk to any resupply fleet. Transports are easy targets for the IJN land-based bombers, which by doctrine were anti-shipping units first and foremost and trained explicitly for this task. In addition to aircraft, any resupply fleet is also at risk from Japanese surface units and submarines based at the islands. This means that heavy escorts are needed, at minimum heavy cruisers and aircraft carriers are required to get a resupply fleet safely from Pearl Harbor to the Philippines. This in turn requires fleet oilers, otherwise the cruisers and destroyers are going to run out of fuel en route. Fleet oilers were one of the biggest bottlenecks on the US Navy in the early war period.

As of Dec 7, the US Pacific fleet only had 4 oilers and 6 tankers, with 2 more oilers arriving from the Atlantic in early 1942 to replace losses. The convoys have to travel from Pearl to the Philippines, a 4800 mile gauntlet of submarines, aircraft, and warships from multiple IJN bases, plus aircraft from captured islands in the Philippines. Each convoy takes minimum 20 days to go from Pearl to the Philippines, then has to unload. Cavite is destroyed at this point, and trying to reach it will result in an interdiction by IJN aircraft and ships as the convoy circles the north coast of Luzon or goes through the San Bernardino strait. Lack of port facilities anywhere else on Luzon prevents timely unloading and will certainly result in the loss of transports, as the Japanese found out on Guadalcanal.
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>>10521195
(cont)
Adding in a leg from the mainland, which would be necessary in order to bring in anything other than fuel, adds another 9 days at minimum (sailing from San Diego). Sailing from the main west coast naval base at San Francisco would take even longer. That's a minimum 30 days for the run in, then another 30 for the run back, and unloading the transports will take a week at minimum due to lack of port facilities at the destination. The more men you have in the Philippines, the more you need to send. 1 ton per man per convoy works for napkin-math calculations, as IIRC the US in 1944 with unlimited resources was devoting 3x that number. 200k troops is then 200k tons of shipping per convoy, and you'll need 3 convoys to keep a 1/month delivery schedule, for 600k tons of merchant shipping total to keep the Philippines supplied. That's near 10% of the US's starting shipping capacity, and not accounting for the losses that would be certain to happen.

>prewar buildup
Pic related. Following the Washington Naval Treaty, Japan was limited to a 6:10 ratio of navy tonnage to the US. While this did leave them at a disadvantage in a long war where US production would be a factor, and left their Kantai Kessen doctrine in jeopardy, it did ensure that they could achieve local superiority in the initial stages by avoiding a naval arms race that would leave everyone far behind the US. Because of this tonnage ratio, the US could not get local superiority against the Japanese in the Philippines without stripping every last one of their areas of interest bare. This is a strategic non-starter, and the Army War College was correct that it was likely to result in a loss of most of those assets, as historically happened. The US did move additional non-Navy units to the Philippines prior to hostilities, most notably the 19th Bombardment Group which was equipped with B-17s, but more than half of the group's aircraft were destroyed on the ground on December 8th.
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>>10522096
Because brainlets can't into naval warfare. If you look at the sea battles the Japanese got their ass kicked even harder than on land and it was the USN doing 95% of the work.
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>>10513965
Didn't happen nerd
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>>10512287

/thread
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>>10512340

very well said anon
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>>10512263
ahahahahaha seethe, they absolutely love american culture too after all the cultural exports our military guys showed them during the occupation, that must make you really made I bet
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>>10515207

this video never gets old
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no matter how much you obsessively hate america, how can you even attempt to frame us as some kind of evil bad gut colonial oppressors here lmfao? They attacked us unprovoked, we have a right to fucking defend ourselves you pricks
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>>10512263
>On the other hand the Americans were fat lazy mutts who preferred to sit back and bombard the Japanese rather than giving them a fair and honorable fight.

Well, yeah? Why the fuck would you handicap yourself in a war when you could use the most effective strategies that will lead to the least amount of losses on your end? You're kinda forgetting this is a war, not tennis. Only a giant fucking retard would put honor before results.
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>>10521222
Guess it depends, really. You are armored and cozy, but also trapped in a box with fuel and ammo if you were to get stuck. And thats before you have japs with suicide charges, molotovs, well-hidden at guns and just a general urge to katana' your head of if you ever get caught outside the tank...
Think i read somewhere that close to 60% of all armor landed on Okinawa got taken out in some way or fashion
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>>10522340
I really should do a read-through of WPO, do you have any books to recommend?
>>
USA loadout: Thompson SMGs, semi auto garands and .30 carbines, m2 flamethrower

Jap loadout: usually a poorly made bolt action or an unreliable smg
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lmao why are there only a few people mentioning the disparity in industrial production between japan and the us that was like the biggest factor in the war
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>>10523997
weebs cant grasp that the US spent less than 3% of its budget on national defense in the 30s vs Japan's spending up to 30% of it for nearly 3 decades straight.

Japan's economy/industry was about as developed as Italy's. Italy lacked the will to fight but weren't retarded enough to make Yamato class Battleships.
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>>10524021
>Italy lacked the will to fight but weren't retarded enough to make Yamato class Battleships.
They also didnt suffer from a bad case of Mahan-ism either
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>>10522314
The US cannot just throw extra divisions into the Philippines
There's nothing in this post, lad. Your nonsense that there was no "germany first" in play, and simply implying that there was no other choice but to abandon the PI, is simply wrong. Those divisions went elsewhere, but could have gone to the PI. Just because they didn't doesn't not imply they couldn't, no matter your fantasies to the contrary.
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>>10522334
>the US Pacific fleet only had
Correct, the Pacific fleet had been stripped. Now you're starting to get it, lad. Keep it up.
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>>10522340
All this to say that "germany first" precluded a relief of the PI. You should just agree with me on that, lad, and stop flagellating yourself over this.
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You should probably educate yourself a bit, lad, as to the resources being sent around the world, elsewhere. Here's what went to the Sovs alone. This might help you understand what you clearly don't.
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>>10524273
In particular, you'll note that 8.2M tons passing through Vladivostok. That US war materiel was transported on 150 US-built merchantmen, crewed by US merchant mariners, reflagged as Sov. You'll also note the much longer route to Iran. All of this took precedence, due to the "germany first" political decision, not military. And let's not forget the UK was the largest recipient of LL, not to mention the long planned US military buildup there, with air forces in action almost immediately. .
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>>10522237
Read my post again.
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>>10523487
>War Plan Orange: The U.S. Strategy to Defeat Japan, 1897-1945 by Edward Miller
Deals specifically with US contingency planning vs Japan, and is probably the best known work on US contingency planning in general
>American War Plans, 1890-1939 by Steven Ross
This one is a detailed analysis of all the single-color contingency plans, IE the plans anticipating only one opponent
>U.S. War Plans, 1939-1945 by Steven Ross
This one looks at the Rainbow plans, which accounted for the much more complex political situation of the 1930s, and how they guided Allied strategy during the war
>The Road to Rainbow: Army Planning for Global War, 1934-1940 by Henry Gole
This one looks at the work of Army War College students in the 1930s. Strategic planning was part of the curriculum, and much of the work of the AWC students not only paralleled the thinking in the War Department, but also heavily contributed to the formation of the Rainbow plans.

Unfortunately there's not a lot of literature on US contingency planning in general. The above list is pretty comprehensive AFAIK, but they don't really connect well. Miller and Ross both didn't know Gole's book even existed when they wrote theirs, and Gole doesn't really give you the connection between the single-color plans and how they influenced the later Rainbow plans.
>>
If only they had managed to bomb Manhattan. Japanese propaganda from 1942, probably in response to the Doolittle Raid.
>>
Their carriers were like something for ants
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>>10513965
Ok, kike.
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>>10524232
>The US cannot just throw extra divisions into the Philippines without them noticing and accounting for it.
Quote the full sentence instead of fighting a strawman you fucking ignoramous. You're handwaving the very real issues involved in actually defending the Philippines from a Japanese attack, and blaming the capitulation on a Germany first policy, when the US considered the Philippines indefensible in the fucking 1920s when Japan was the sole opponent in US contingency planning and German did not factor in to strategic planning at all. You will not address this point, because it blows your entire argument out of the water. Instead you will continue to build a strawman and attack that instead, all to hold on to this headcanon of yours that the Philippines were totally defensible, despite the fact that military strategists considered it a lost cause for decades before Germany was even a consideration in US strategic planning.

>>10524243
Are you fucking incapable of arguing against anything other than your strawman? Address the points. How do you intend to shepherd a slow 10 knot convoy past half a dozen Japanese air and naval bases, then protect them while they spend days unloading on some godforsaken beach on Luzon, and then get them back home again?

>>10524243
>All this to say that "germany first" precluded a relief of the PI
See above nigger
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>>10524273
>the total amount of shit shipped to the USSR supports my point that the US could have done the same for the Philippines in 1941-early 1942, despite the fact that June-December 1941 LL sent to the USSR only totalled 360k tons, 2.1% of the overall wartime total and comparable to 1-2 of your hypothetical relief convoys to the Philippines.

>>10524290
This is also misleading, because heavy escorts were not required to send LL to the USSR through the Pacific due to Japanese neutrality towards the Soviets. Those convoys would require heavy units to escort them to the Philippines, past half a dozen Japanese bases, into an island chain where Japan has air and naval dominance. This limits the amount of convoys you can send to the amount you can effectively escort, and as of early 1941-1942 the US would be hard pressed to put together enough warships to escort two convoys simultaneously, and that leaves nothing for actual offensive operations against Japan.

>>10524899
Apologies, that should be tanker fleet 1939. 8 more were added by 1941.
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>>10524687
They....they did know Manhattan was east coast, right?
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>>10524911
Japan fighting the US was delusional from the get go. They didn’t have any sense of logic or basic intelligence.
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>>10524899
No, they knew the PI could be relieved, they just chose not to.

The same people you're claiming knew they couldn't relieve the PI were then planning an invasion of Western Europe in 1942, against a far more capable opponent.

I think they disagreed with you then, as well they should have.

>convoy past half a dozen Japanese air and naval bases
The same way they did in the Solomons just a few months later ( with the addition of massive resources currently deployed elsewhere in the "germany first" effort, of course). You don't seem to know much history, lad.
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>>10524922
Speaking of, reading and comparing Jap BDA vs US BDA is quite fascinating. Both sides made gross overclaims, at least at first, but the japanese were all over the place
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>>10524908
Correct, all merchanttraffic currently devoted to the Sovs in Europe is deployed to the Pacific, once the "germany first" effort gets tossed aside. And of course, all naval shipping stripped from the Pacific is returned, along with additional since "germany first" is defunct.
>>
You should stop seething like a 'tard, lad.
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>>10524946
>No, they knew the PI could be relieved, they just chose not to.
Then why did a 1920 war plan assume the Philippines could not be relieved.

>The same people you're claiming knew they couldn't relieve the PI were then planning an invasion of Western Europe in 1942, against a far more capable opponent.
>The US was planning an invasion of western europe when they wrote War Plan Orange in the 1910s
Try harder dumbass

>The same way they did in the Solomons just a few months later
You seem to be unable to read a map. No Japanese holdings are on the line from Hawaii to Samoa, Fiji, or New Caledonia, which were the islands that the Guadalcanal offensive was launched from. Meanwhile attempting to run a convoy to the Philippines from Hawaii takes you past: Kwajalein, Eniwetok, Taroa, Wotje, Truk, Palau, Guam, and Saipan.

>>10524962
Explain how you plan to escort all of this to the Philippines instead of of screeching about >muh germs first

The most laughable part of this entire farce is that it's exactly what Japan's Kantai Kessen doctrine hoped the US would do: Rush to relieve the Philippines, which would allow Japanese air, submarine, and surface units to pare down the US battlefleet and then crush it far from its base after a 4800 mile journey through contested waters. It's the IJN's dream scenario, literally Voyage of the Damned part 2.
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>>10525010
>1920 war plan
Maybe you should find a civil war plan, that might be more accurate.

Relieving the PI involves combat and commitment of resources. They were late the party in the Solomons, but when it was engaged it was won. The PI would have been similar, particularly with the massive diversion of resources away from "germany first".
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You seem to be watching more video games than historical records, lad. The Japanese got into a protracted campaign in the Solomons, and in a 3-4 month campaign, couple with a couple naval battles previously, their naval and air capability was devastated. Within one year of PH, half the aviators at PH were dead. Kido Butai was at the bottom of the ocean .

But doing this required confronting the enemy, and the sooner the better. Much like the planners for the 1942 invasion of Western Europe were planning to do (which you claim couldn't not have occurred, apparently).
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>>10525052
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>>10525116
And where did they finally decide to execute this "germany first" political effort? French Morocco.

FRENCH FUCKING MOROCCO

It's amusing that you're bleating about "lack of resources", given that nonsense, LL and all the rest.
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>>10512263
>What made the Japanese lose the war?
For same stupid mindset as you.
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>>10512286
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>>10512263
Bravery and warrior spirit means jack shit compared to superior logistics and industry
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>>10512439
Based, fuck all the nip apologist faggots ITT



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